IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 4821 - 4840
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>
Subject: Re: Sound files of locos
Date: 24 Dec 1998 16:18:08 -0500
Dear Apurva,
I note your frustrations about doing sound recording at Pune Jn.,
etc.
As a videshi, I have always had problems about taking photos, etc.,
around
stations in India, and a letter from the Railway Board's PRO at Rail
Bhavan
has been invaluable again and again. A Tamil friend of mine simply faces
down the station staff and tells them that as an Indian citizen he has a
right to take pictures of his own property! He was once accused at Dahej
or
some such godforsaken place of being a Pak spy! (A Tamil, already?)
More seriously, since I switched about ten years ago from stills to
movie, and more recently video, I have been very frustrated by the
prohibition on movie and video cameras, which Railway Board do not seem
in
any hurry to remove (I know that the issue has been before them at least
since the late 1980s!) "Security" wallahs in particular seem to think
that
video and other new technologies are highly dangerous; seems they
haven't
heard of satellites!.
But there is a way out. Officially, RB don't take any notice of
lineside photography that is NOT at stations, and they have unofficially
said that they don't care much about tiny wayside stations either. I
have
been motorcading -- chasing by car -- for many years now, mostly by
hiring a
car, finding good spots, and arranging to be there when the trains are
too!
(Actually chasing a specific train from location to location can be a
recipe
for disaster, on Indian roads!) But I have often found that simply
walking a
mile or so up the line can be advantageous, especially for "starting
away"
shots with station/town/signal gantry in background, and relatively few
curious bystanders in the immediate vicinity. (Though I have often found
that simply asking any bystanders politely to be quiet while filming is
going on can be very effective, too. Many of your countrymen are highly
courteous.)
So, as it affects your taping activities, you don't necessarily
need a
fortune. Just walk a way up the line, preferably well clear of any
officials
and their activities, and tape away. The chance of some powerful action
as
your trains rev. up and gain the main line is also very encouraging.
This is probably coals to Newcastle; no doubt you've thought of
all
this for yourselves.
Seasons greetings
Ken Walker
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Re: Sound files of locos
Date: 24 Dec 1998 17:04:45 -0500
prakash@us.email wrote:
>
> Apurva,
>
> I believe the term "right" here means "correct"or "okay". So the
> conversation is:
>
> Asstt: "Salpa home 'right' (i.e. okay)"
> Driver: "Right" (okay).
>
> Prakash
>
> Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email on 12/23/98 07:09:20 AM
>
> To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
> cc:
> Subject: Sound files of locos
>
> Where did this 'right' term come from ? If there is a common slang on
the
> entire IR,
> this is it. It signifies understood, correct and generally
affirmative. I
> think it is
> a corruption of 'right away' or some term like that which the
Britishers
> use.
In American English the term 'right' has 'correct' as one of it's
meanings,
"the student got 14 questions right".
In British English, the term carries a sense of "concluded correctly",
or "all correct",
as in "Right, well, let's get on with it",
or can be used in the American English sense.
I suspect it's being used here in the British English sense.
Well, guys, tape some locos and we'll make a loco sounds page!
Annie
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Re: Sound files of locos
Date: 24 Dec 1998 17:08:12 -0500
<A HREF="http://www.trainorders.com/radio/">http://www.trainorders.com/radio/</A>
has live RealAudio of a scanner tuned to radio frequencies in
the Dallas, TX area.
Annie
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: [Fwd: Sound files of locos
Date: 24 Dec 1998 18:26:58 -0500
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: right
Date: 24 Dec 1998 18:28:43 -0500
There's some such routine supposed to be followed in the US.
Railway workers tell me it's often not done.
Annie
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Merry Christmas
Date: 24 Dec 1998 18:38:49 -0500
Merry Christmas to everybody at IRFCA.
Annie
From: KRISHNA T S <>
Subject:
Date: 24 Dec 1998 19:48:31 -0500
Hi guys
Merry Christmas and wishing all you IRFCA members and families a very
happy and prosperous 1999. Happy footplating!!
Regards
Krishna
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From: Karthik Raju <>
Subject:
Date: 24 Dec 1998 21:35:40 -0500
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From: Karthik Raju <>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: 24 Dec 1998 21:35:48 -0500
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From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: Sound files of locos
Date: 24 Dec 1998 22:18:37 -0500
What do the American railmen say instead of 'right' ?
Anne Ogborn wrote:
> prakash@us.email wrote:
> >
> > Apurva,
> >
> > I believe the term "right" here means "correct"or "okay". So the
> > conversation is:
> >
> > Asstt: "Salpa home 'right' (i.e. okay)"
> > Driver: "Right" (okay).
> >
> > Prakash
> >
> > Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email on 12/23/98 07:09:20 AM
> >
> > To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
> > cc:
> > Subject: Sound files of locos
> >
> > Where did this 'right' term come from ? If there is a common slang
on the
> > entire IR,
> > this is it. It signifies understood, correct and generally
affirmative. I
> > think it is
> > a corruption of 'right away' or some term like that which the
Britishers
> > use.
>
> In American English the term 'right' has 'correct' as one of it's
meanings,
> "the student got 14 questions right".
> In British English, the term carries a sense of "concluded correctly",
or "all correct",
> as in "Right, well, let's get on with it",
> or can be used in the American English sense.
> I suspect it's being used here in the British English sense.
>
> Well, guys, tape some locos and we'll make a loco sounds page!
>
> Annie
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: More on sound files, also about the YAM1
Date: 24 Dec 1998 22:33:06 -0500
KRISHNA T S wrote:
> Hi Apurva
>
> Sorry for the lack of participation after the first round of mail
> exchanges. I really appreciate your prompt replies and those from
Vijay.
>
> Even if you do get arrested, please make sure that you get at least 25
> different sound bites of the Alcos - I'll then bail you out for sure.
If
> you get some really good WDM2 pics, I'll even pay for the lawyer -
only
> kidding (about you getting arrested that is).
I do not think I would be arrested, at one time I was such a familiar
site on
the Pune Jn. that even the beggars would ignore me. I'm sure they would
be
thinking ' Yeh to apna hi admi hai'. I'll find a way around any point
of
conflicts between me (the breaker of laws) and the keepers.
Apurva
>
>
> Guys, the YAM1 AC loco out of Tambaram shed is gonna be extinct as
soon
> as the long drawn out gauge conversion is over. This is a really cute
> electric loco and I'll post some pics of this loco and some Alco pics
of
> the groovy Golden Rock WDM2s and YDM4s that now come to Chennai Egmore
> station onto a website ASAP.
>
> Krishna
>
> >From irfca-request@cs.email Thu Dec 24 00:33:34 1998
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> >Message-ID: <3681FCB1.9BFC37D5@vsnl.email
> >Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 14:04:57 +0530
> >From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.05 [en] (Win95; I)
> >MIME-Version: 1.0
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> >Subject: More on sound files
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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> >
> >Gang !
> >
> >I am soon going to take a trial run of sounds at Pune Jn. Although
the
> >security forces and the officials at the station are touchy about
junta
> >taking pictures, they cannot object to me openly recording sounds.
The
> >official secrets act (c. 1890s?) will not apply to sound recordings !
> >
> >Apurva
> >
> >
> >
>
> ______________________________________________________
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From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Sound files of locos]
Date: 24 Dec 1998 22:35:51 -0500
Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Sound files of locos
> Date: Thu, 24 Dec 1998 21:01:21 -0500
> From: "Muhammed A. Khan" <ashiane@erols.email
> To: "Anne Ogborn" <anniepoo@netmagic.email
>
> The term 'right" was used most commonly on IR meaning OK. The practice
as
> far as I can recall was initiated after an accident in which the
driver miss
> read the signal. On my many inspections on the footplate I had to
observe
> that the driver and his assistant were seprately calling the signal.
> Usually it was called first by the driver then the assistant. For
example
> the driver will call "Godhani signal Hara (Hara meant green)" . The
> assistant observing the signal would call "Right Godhani signal Hara".
It
> was based on the precept that the possibility of misreading signal was
> considerably reduced as such. Muhammed
Your writing 'Godhani signal Hara' has brought back many happy memories.
At last there are Indians who relish footplate talk and want to make a
discussion out of it. A warm welcome to Muhammed, for this is your first
mail to the IRFCA. We desperately need Indian members who have seen the
real thing from this close (from the footplate of course). Let us have
more mails from you about your experiences with the IR. Are you actually
working for IR ?
I just noticed that this mail is actually forwarded by Anne -so why
doesnt Muhammed become an IRFCA member ?
The more complete transcript in the Salpa - Jarandeswar section on a WDM
2 footplate hauling Down Maharashtra Express would be:
Asst: Salpa home right
Driver: Salpa home right
Driver (who is on the other side of the loco): Salpa Road 1 (track
nearest to the Station master's office)
Asst: Salpa Road 1, sir.
Thachak - the sound of the token being dropped and picked up
Asst: Token right (have made a proper collection of the token)
Driver: Token Right (understood)
Long horn blast indicating to the station master that the token has been
picked up
Asst: Salpa - Jarandeshwar Agra 12 (this is the token number A 12 -
number noted in the driver's log)
Driver: Agra 12 right
Driver: Salpa starter right
Asst: Salpa starter right (and also spots the advanced starter after the
curve to the right) - Salpa advanced starter right - right to proceed.
Driver: Right to proceed !
This goes on for the 43 stations between Pune and Kolhapur.
Even the driver's families - small kids 'right' each other on the most
trivial matters.
Apurva
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Sound files of locos]
Date: 24 Dec 1998 22:58:46 -0500
>
> Even the driver's families - small kids 'right' each other on the most
> trivial matters.
>
> Apurva
that's darling.
In the US the driver just repeats what the head brakeman says.
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Sound files of locos]
Date: 25 Dec 1998 00:52:05 -0500
Anne Ogborn wrote:
> >
> > Even the driver's families - small kids 'right' each other on the
most
> > trivial matters.
> >
> > Apurva
>
> that's darling.
>
> In the US the driver just repeats what the head brakeman says.
So give us a sample of what the footplate talk is in the US. Do the same
sequence tell us how it sounds in the US.- approaching a station,
sighting
the distant and home signals, (I suppose there are no Nieles ball token
anywhere in the 'civilised' world), passing through a station, detecting
the
starter and advanced starter and then settling down for the next
section.
Apurva
From: C.L.Zeni <>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Sound files of locos]
Date: 25 Dec 1998 06:11:02 -0500
Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Even the driver's families - small kids 'right' each other on the
most
> > > trivial matters.
> > >
> > > Apurva
> >
> > that's darling.
> >
> > In the US the driver just repeats what the head brakeman says.
>
> So give us a sample of what the footplate talk is in the US. Do the
same
> sequence tell us how it sounds in the US.- approaching a station,
sighting
> the distant and home signals, (I suppose there are no Nieles ball
token
> anywhere in the 'civilised' world), passing through a station,
detecting the
> starter and advanced starter and then settling down for the next
section.
> Apurva
Well on the footplate, in signaled territory, the crew will repeat
signals to each other, ie, driver: "Approach medium" conductor/guard
"Approach medium". Also, depending on the railroad, as a train passed
each signal the driver will call on the radio each signal he passes, ie,
"349, clear signal, Fetner." Translated: Train No. 349 has a clear
signal at the place called Fetner". This is all heard on one's radio
scanner, by the way. When the signal is not at an officially designated
place, a custom seems to develop with unofficial names - near my home
there are a couple of signals near restaurants and that's how they're
identified on the radio. These call-outs are made for the dispatcher's
and other train's benefit, as nobody ever confirms receiving them. I
suspect that's it part of the company regimen to insure the crews are
alert, as signal calling is required by company rules.
Ball/token despatching is extinct here. The most common despatching now
is either by signal or by Absolute Block in non-signalled areas. In the
past, AB was done by physically giving the train crew written orders as
it passed a manned station or signal box (tower). This is pretty much
gone due to efforts to reduce costs - get rid of bodies. Now it's all
done on radio. The dispatcher (DS) calls the train, train replies. DS
asks "Are you ready to copy?" When train crew says yes, the DS reads
the orders out, spelling out each town name and saying each number digit
individually. For example, here in the Raleigh, North Carolina area the
Norfolk Southern RR is dispatched from Greenville, South Carolina - 600
km away. A typical conversation I hear is:
NS dispatcher Greenville to 349, over.
349 dispatch.
Who's the engineer today?
W.C.Smith, dispatcher.
Are you ready to copy Mr. Smith?
Ready to copy.
OK, Train Order Number 12345, two boxes checked number 1 and number 3,
clearance from Fetner F-E-T-N-E-R to Mebane M-E-B-A-N-E, not required to
protect against trains following on same track. At 1:15 PM One-One-Five
Pea-Emm, Dispatcher J.C.Kieth to W.C.Smith, over.
OK Dispatcher, Train Order Number 12345, two boxes checked number 1 and
number 3, clearance from Fetner F-E-T-N-E-R to Mebane M-E-B-A-N-E, not
required to protect against trains following on same track. At 1:15 PM
One-One-Five Pea-Emm, Dispatcher J.C.Kieth, Over.
That is correct Mr. Smith. You all have a safe trip, over.
Thank you Dispatcher. 349 out.
NS Greenville out.
There are of course variations on this, and this is NOT completely
accurate, being done from memory, but it is fairly typical for the
Norfolk Southern. When 349 gets to Mebane (about 50 km away and site of
first long passing loop), he'll call the dispatcher again to get
clearance further west. My Indian friends may be baffled by the "not
required to protect" part, but this line only has 8-10 trains a day on
it so traffic density is not an issue. Also, 349 will have 2-3
locomotives each at least 3000 hp, typically 4100 hp, and 90+ 100 ton
wagons behind it. Track speed is 49 mph (due to track being
unsignaled), track itself is 133 pound/yard rail on wooden sleepers.
Hope you all find this interesting...
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>
From: Sukesh H <>
Subject: unsubscribe
Date: 25 Dec 1998 08:20:10 -0500
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Re: Sound files of locos
Date: 25 Dec 1998 17:43:51 -0500
(Though I have often found
> that simply asking any bystanders politely to be quiet while filming
is
> going on can be very effective, too. Many of your countrymen are
highly
> courteous.)
Dr. Walker -
I should send you some video I made in Singur. I wnated to get some
background footage for a video, and a friend offered to take me out to
a beautiful natural spot nearby.
As we went through the fields all the village children followed us,
making a huge uproar. When I finally explained my plight, that I
couldn't
take sound through the shouting, they shouted even louder!
One of my more memorable, if not productive, attempts to shoot video in
India. 8^)
Annie
From: Don Dickens <>
Subject: PSMT Update
Date: 25 Dec 1998 18:17:44 -0500
A route map and a line drawing of the O&K Monorail locomotives is now
available on the patiala State Monorail Tramway site.
<A HREF="http://www.e-z.net/~ddickens/monorail/">http://www.e-z.net/~ddickens/monorail/</A>
Enjoy, enjoy!
Don Dickens
From: Prakash Tendulkar <>
Subject: Book on Tube Railway
Date: 25 Dec 1998 19:16:47 -0500
Hi Folks,
I found the following review in The Times, London.
Prakash
====================
The Times, London
December 26, 1998
BOOKS
Photography
"ONCE, A guy sitting next to me on a train in New
York was complaining of a headache, and I cured it
for him . ." Francis Ford Coppola's introduction to
Underground: Travels on the Global Metro (Aperture,
œ22, ISBN 0 893 81753 8) tells us little about this
book. Perhaps that is because the work is
deliberately opaque, full of fleeting, isolated
strangers captured when they least expect it, such as
the Berlin couple above.
Italian photographer Marco Pesaresi spent five years
on the world's subways, snapping commuters from
Mexico City to Moscow. The results are vivid,
touching, and as much a record of social and
political differences as a humanitarian document. The
squalor of the New York subways contrasts
dramatically with the surprisingly light and airy
Calcutta underground, where soft music is played.
The text is kept to a minimum, each photo accompanied
only by the details of where it was taken. The only
disappointment is closer to home, in the pictures of
London. Despite being taken in the early Nineties,
they are full of the kind of punk images that would
not disgrace the tackiest of vendors on Oxford
Street.
AMBER COWAN
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: WDP 2 locomotive
Date: 26 Dec 1998 01:26:43 -0500
Hola Amigos,
These is the first picture of the new loco WDP 2 with the writeup of the
Railways.
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/WDP2_11.html</A>
Have a look and get back with your comments.
Apurva