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From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Udhampur-Baramula Link....

Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:18:29 -0500


San-Ind wrote:
>
> Dear Vijay,
> Its a long time to see u.......
> I've to ask one thing..........that can i get all the mails which are
> posted to IRFCA website.....?
>
> Can u tell me something about it...... I'd got some details of this
rly.
> line upto Qazigund..... I'd got it from a Rly. report in NRM
library....
> They had given all stations upto Qazigund...... But further details
are
> missing ??? Can someone Help me out ??????????????

It would be nice to see any information posted on the Jammu - Udhampur
link.
Could you perhaps post the stuff that you discovered at NRM?

Thanks,

Jishnu.

From: AURELPIO <>

Subject:

Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:32:27 -0500


TARGI POMORSKIE

-- I Targi Hobbystów Kolei - KOLEJ MOJE HOBBY --

ZPU ROMEX sp. z o.o.
85-039 BYDGOSZCZ,
ul. Hetmanska 38
tel. (++48 52) 581-00-48
tel. / fax 22-78-45
tel. 349-37-73, 349-37-81 w. 520
e-mail: kolej@psi.email
targi-pom@psi.email
<A HREF="http://www.targi-pom.com.pl">http://www.targi-pom.com.pl</A>
C Z L O N E K P O L S K I E J K O R P O R A C J I T A
R G
O W E J



Verehrte Herrschaften

Am 4.-6. Oktober 2000 findet in Bydgoszcz mit der III. Eisenbahnmesse
"Eisenbahn 2000" die I. Messe für Eisenbahnliebhaber "Eisenbahn - mein
Hobby".
Es ist erste Messeveranstaltung dieser Art sowohl in Polen als auch in
den
benachbarten Ländern. Ih Zweck ist die Präsentation der Erzeuger, die
für
das Eisenbahnhobby herstellen und ihre Dienste für eine große Anzahl
potentieller Empfänger leisten.
Daher möchten wir Sie zur Teilnahme an dieser Messe und Präsentation
Ihrer
Erzeugnisse zahlreichen polnischen Eisenbahnliebhaberkreisen und
Regioneinwohnern einladen. Viele anwesende Medien verschaffen die
Publizität
und sichern und einen großen Bericht aus dieser einzigartigen
Veranstaltung
in Fachzeitschriften.

Dieses Treffen wird mit zahlreichen Begleitveranstaltungen ergänzt:
- Gesamtpolnische Zusammenkunft der Eisenbahnliebhaber und -enthusiasten
und
in deren Rahmen:
* Durchfahrt der Sonderzüge in der Gegend von Bydgoszcz - 2 bis 3 Tage
* Austellung der Eisenbahnfahrzeuge auf dem Bahnhof Bydgoszcz Glówna -
zugänglich für alle
* I.Symposium der Eisenbahnliebhaber
- Verkündung der Ergebnisse des Gesamtpolnischen Fotowettbewerbs
"Eisenbahn
in der Fotografie" und Austellung der interessantesten Arbeiten
- Ausstellung der Eisenbahnmodelle, Arbeiten und Errungenschaften der
Modellbauer, Stände mit Eisenbahnfachzeitschriften, Präsentation von
Freilichtmuseen, Museen und einzelnen Schmalspurbahnen zwecks
Verbreitung
und Förderung in weiteren Kreisen
- Theateraufführung "Wahnsinnige Lokomotive" für Messegäste und
Regionbehörden

Daher bitten wir Sie um Übersenden von kompletten Förderungs- und
Werbematerialien, die uns eine Bekanntmachung mit Ihrem Angebot und eine
entsprechende Lokalisierung der Firma auf der Messe ermöglichen werden.

Wir hoffen, daß Sie zusammen mit uns an der Förderung der
Eisenbahnschönheit
und aller damit verbundenen Angelegenheiten teilnehmen wollen.

hochachtungsvoll

Roman Pikula










TARGI POMORSKIE (POMMERSCHE MESSE)

I. MESSE FÜR EISENBAHNLIEBHABER - EISENBAHN MEIN HOBBY

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren

Wir haben das Vergnügen, Ihnen die Zusammenarbeit beim I.
Gesamtpolnischen
Fotowettbewerb zum Thema Eisenbahn, unter dem Titel " EISENBAHN IN DER
FOTOGRAFIE" und bei der I. Messe für Eisenbahnliebhaber "EISENBAHN MEIN
HOBBY", die am 4.-6. Oktober 2000 in Bydgoszcz zusammen mit der III.
Messe
für Eisenbahnwesen "Eisenbahn 2000" stattfinden, vorschlagen.

Dembezüglich möchten wir Ihnen die Zusammenarbeit auf der
Bartergrundlage
und Einrückung einer Information über die Messe und den Wettbewerb in
Ihren
Eisenbahntransportfachzeitschriften vorschlagen. Wir bitten Sie auch um
Stiftung der Preise für seine Preisträger in Form eines kostenlosen
mindestens einjährigen Abonnements der von Ihnen herausgegebenen
Eisenbahntransportfachzeitschriften. Als Beilage übersenden wir das
Projekt
der Wettbewerbsordnung mit dem Terminkalender.

Im Rahmen der Zusammenarbeit bitten wir um:
- Unterbringung mindestens viermal der Informationsmaterialien über die
Messe und den Wettbewerb, die vom Veranstalter (in der Frist vom 4.
Oktober
bis zum Juli 2000) geschickt werden und Einrückung eines detallierten
Berichts nach dem Veranstaltungsabschluss (November 2000);
- Stiftung der Preise für Preisträger des Fotowettbewerbs in Form eines
kostenlosen mindestens einjährigen Abonnements der herausgegebenen
Zeitschriften;
- Übersenden an die Anschrift des Messebüros je ein Exemplar der
herausgegebenen Zeitschriften (für Organisationszwecke) aus dem letzten
oder
aus zwei letzten Jahren, sowie Übersenden der laufenden Nummern bis zur
Messe;

Dagegen bieten wir an:
- Möglichkeit der Inanspruchnahme eines Standardstands (4 qm) während
der I.
Messe für Eisenbahnliebhaber, die parallel zur Messe EISENBAHN 2000
stattfinden und Eintragung zum Messekatalog auf den Bartergrundlagen;
- Unterbringung einer Information über Ihren Verlag auf den Werbetafeln
um
die Messeausstellung. Es gibt die Verhandlungsmöglichkeit der Form und
Weise
Ihres Patronats über unsere Veranstaltung.

Wir möchten hervorheben, dass es die erste Messeveranstaltung dieser Art
sowohl in Polen als auch in den Nachbarländern ist. Ihr Zweck ist eine
Präsentation der Hersteller- und Dienstleistungsfirmen für das
Eisenbahnhobby vielen potentiellen Kunden.
Wir sind überzeugt, dass diese einmalige Möglichkeit der Darstellung
Ihrer
Firma durch Sponsern und Schrimherrschaft über diese Veranstaltungen
auch
Ihnen Nutzen bringt.
Wir hoffen, dass Sie zusammen mit uns die Eisenbahn und alles, was damit
verbunden ist, mit Nutzen für Ihre Firma fördern möchten.
hochachtungsvoll

Präsident der Messe
Roman Pikula



I Targi Hobbystów Kolei - KOLEJ MOJE HOBBY --
ZPU ROMEX sp. z o.o. 85-039 BYDGOSZCZ, ul. Hetmanska
38
POLEN e-mail: kolej@psi.email


================================================
PIOTR KAZIMIEROWSKI z Kwidzyna
tel. 0602-537-618
kolej@psi.email
<A HREF="http://friko5.onet.pl/el/kolpiotr">http://friko5.onet.pl/el/kolpiotr</A>

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:51:40 -0500



>
>Yes I saw the new KZJ livery too at Pune, this is actually the Indian
>flag's tricolour. I


Anand, Apurva &Co,

It would be great if we can get a picture of this beast! I can visualize
a
very pretty looking WDM2 here.

-Sridhar

From: The Brabyns <>

Subject: Hi! & questions

Date: 29 Oct 1999 14:07:04 -0500


Hello there,

I'm Trevor Brabyn, a recent convert to Indian model railroading. I have
read the posts for Rajeev, and have some grasp of what this mailing list
is about, so you need not explain. I am interested in Indian railways
more or less in the period 1910 - 1920. Do any of you have suggestions
for modelling Indian rolling stock (passanger carriages, freight vans,
etc) for this period in HO/OO (1:76) scale? Are there any drawings or
plans available for this type of thing? I am not very picky about scale
perfection, i.e. guage to scale discrepencies, perfect prototype
reproduction model locos, etc, Also what do you use for Indian civilian
bystanders for crowded railway stations? What is a good source for books
and films about rail on the subcontinent? Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers,
Trevor

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: irfca is 10 years old !

Date: 29 Oct 1999 20:58:01 -0500


It would be Pune's fortune if the world convention of IRFCA were to be
held in here.
Meeting other railfans is slowly becoming possible and things will
happen soon. I
think a joint trip down the KR seems like a lot of fun. I am with the
IRFCA only for
last year and a half. But then what a period this has been !

Amongst the guests coming to Pune senior railbuff and Alco authority
Phil Wormald
would be in Pune sometime in Nov.
Check out his site, specially the sounds section:
<A HREF="http://www.alco.freeserve.co.uk/">http://www.alco.freeserve.co.uk/</A>

"
>
> AND CONSIDERING THE INFLUENCE
> WHICH APURVA SEEMS TO COMMAND
> IN PUNE, LET THE LOCATION BE PUNE.
> (See the following mail from Apurva)
>
> Anand and Apurva and all other senior /
> founder members - can you at least
> give us some info on the origins of irfca.
> Thanks in advance.

The founder members are Dheeraj, Satish, Vijay, Pushkar, Anurag, Kumar,
Shanku and
many
others. Apologies if I have left out any of 'elders'. It is entirely due
to my
ignorance and not intended to belittle their contribution to the IRFCA.

Apurva

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 29 Oct 1999 21:18:08 -0500



> Pune powers are okay from the hauling
>power
>and economy but are frequently dirty. The powers that Pune drivers find
>detestable are Itarsi, Jhansi, Ratlam and Ludhiana (yes we get those
too
>!).

Apurva,
Can U please elaborate on how Ludhiana powers land at
PA(What
is the allocation?). I haven't seen this happening since the days when
Jhelum was diesel powered all the way. These must be the among the WDM2s
working at the farthest distance from the home shed.

BTW Ludhiana powers share some of the most prestigious assignments on
the
northbund trains although now the shed is admittedly on decline after
electrification.

Harsh

I

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd:

Date: 29 Oct 1999 21:18:39 -0500


Something that may interest you ...

From: Anurag Acharya <>

Subject: Re: irfca is 10 years old !

Date: 29 Oct 1999 23:30:11 -0500



> A lot of credit to Dheeraj, Anurag for the list creation and
>maintenance.....

And to Satish who kept the list alive and healthy for a long long time.

anurag

From: Raymond Marsh <>

Subject: unsubscribe...

Date: 30 Oct 1999 01:32:01 -0500


Please un-subscribe me from the list temporarily.

Ray.



Download NeoPlanet at <A HREF="http://www.neoplanet.com">http://www.neoplanet.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 30 Oct 1999 02:05:03 -0500


>
> When it comes to mtce. of WAM and WAP locos, Ghaziabad stands
out. Drivers
> generally inspect the Ghaziabad locos very thoroughly before taking
over.

Does it mean that GZB powers are good or are they suspect ? The latest
instructions
to the WDM 2 pilots from Pune is that they are not required to check the
power for
radiator water level, lube oil level etc. The shed is supposed to do
that for them
(is it not the shed's job in any case ?). This issue came forth after a
number of
failures after the drivers took charge on the platform and could not
check
extensively (Pune platform is under the wires, so climbing on top is out
of
question). After investigation, the fact finding team concluded that any
loco leaving
the (Pune) shed would have to be completely ready to be sent on the
line. The drivers
check the loco in any case, its his ass on the line (literally) :-)
Earlier the (unofficial) attitude was that the shed wanted to dispatch
the loco on
time, even if there were some faults and the loco failure on the line
was a lesser
sin than lack of punctuality. I have seen loud arguments about drivers
who would
point defects in the loco while the shed staff tried to convince them
that there was
nothing wrong with the power.
One trick that the WDM 2 drivers do is to switch off the crankcase
exhauster while
checking the engine. Any leaking oil starts showing up within minutes
bubbling from
the joints.

Apurva

From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 30 Oct 1999 02:33:57 -0500




Dear Apurva and gang,

Don't the Railways have a MEL (Minimum Equipment List) like they do on
the
airlines, giving a list of "must be ok" equipment, without which the
loco is not
declared as fit power. There must be. All other items are desirable.
Standard
ones on the MEL would be safety requirements like brake power, horn,
lights,
safety fuses etc. Any details available with you would be interesting.

Regards

Raymond

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: Hi! & questions

Date: 30 Oct 1999 02:44:14 -0500


Dear Trevor Brabyn,
India is a magnificent subject for model railways because so little
has
been done, and there are so many wonderful prototypes and locations
begging
for modelling attention. Indian modellers do exist. You probably know
of my
article on my "Barfi Light Railway" in the Continental Muddler (May
1991);
and I presume of other short pieces since. There are a couple of
pictures of
the BLR on my website at <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>.
There are hundreds of stunning locations all over India, and they
need
not be neglected. You don't need anything super-dramatic: on the scale
of a
model railway even a small hill is a mountain. I got most of the effects
on
the BLR by modelling actual places (particularly Chintamani for Kutcha
Bazar, and Tirupattur for Chinnapettai) and paying careful attention to
local colour. Also, avoid clutter -- make everything
spacious.
Many model in HO scale (1:87, 3.5mm:1 ft) but a few of us use 4mm
scale
(1:76.2, 4mm:1 ft) either for convenience or because of long committment
to
the scale. You should be aware that there is no such thing as HO/OO
SCALE,
because scale is a ratio, and you can't mix two ratios and get accurate
modelling: HO is correctly-scaled 1:87 models with correct STANDARD
gauge
track, and OO is an appalling British commercial hybrid which results in
your running 4mm scale trains on 4ft 1-1/2in gauge track. (While I
sympathise very strongly with the "get something running" attiutude, I'd
advise against falling into the trap of thinking that OO is "easy". I've
been in the hobby since 1948, and in my view OO is a disaster because
nothing fits, the wheel standards are so bad that everything falls off,
and
it ALWAYS looks wrong. Even EM is easier, and finsescale standards are a
dream. If you have even basic skills, get it right from the start --
youi'll never regret it.) If you are going to model Indian, there is a
lot
of scratch-building (or at least massive modification) ahead of you, so
it's
important to get scale-gauge ratios right in the first place. ESPECIALLY
if
you run mixed gauge, incorrect track gauges can ruin the effect. What
follows here are some thoughts of my own on the topic.
If you model in HO, you could use HOm track for Indian MG -- it's
actually a little out, as metre gauge ought to be 11.494mm, but it's
close
enough unless you are modelling to P87 standards. Similarly, HOe track
will
do for 2ft 6in gauge (ought to be 8.75mm). BG is more of a problem: I
have
gone the whole hog in 4mm:1ft scale and adopted 22mm gauge, but for HO
you
really need 19.26mm gauge, which don't come ready-made! One curious
advantage of fine-scale is that since we build a lot of our own track
and
pointwork anyway, we tend to be quite easy about changing gauges. I use
10mm, 13.12mm, and 22mm for NG, MG, and BG in 4mm scale. However, one
"mean
and dirty" dodge is to cut ordinary track down the centre and then
re-lay to
a different gauge; you still have to build your own points, though.
Another
possibility which beckons is to use 3mm:1ft scale (TT3, in UK) on HO
track:
the gauge is exact for Indian BG. As many Indian locos and much stock
were
UK-built, the adoption of the "British" scales means that a wealth of
spare
parts is available. This would be of especial importance for the 1920s
---
contemporary modellers using diseasels have similarly powerful reasons
for
choosing 1:87 scale.
For steam loco mechanisms especially, NG in particular poses
problems,
as there are few commercial ones having outside frames; from that point
of
view, MG is probably more promising. But you may find, as I did, that
it's
cheaper, quicker, and easier to build your own from available parts. You
will find that there is almost nothing available commercially. Langley
do a
white-metal kit for a DHR "B" class (not good, in my view) and Backwoods
are
promising both the "B" and the Garratt in etched brass for late this
year or
early next. There are no coaching stock or wagons stock bits except for
Bill
Bedford's NG coaching underframe, produced at my instance some years
ago.
Meridian couplings will do for NG/MG "choppers". As for people, we have
mostly bought Preiser unpainteds, and modified them using body putty or
Milliput, plus tissue. Preiser do a couple of painted Indians -- a Sikh
in a
suit and a woman in a sari -- but you're soon going to get bored with
those,
and they don't much resemble the crowds at stations.
Information is your chief bottleneck. There are virtually no
drawings
available in the model press -- a ZB and an SGS in Continental Muddler
in
recent years, the DHR "B" about ten times over the last 50 years, one
set of
coaching stock drawings for NG (mine) and some more in the works, I
think.
There are numerous good sources in the UK, and the weight diagrams
issued by
the various railways can suffice for rough models, though they always
need
supplementing by photos of the real thing.
For motive power details, I'd suggest referring to Hugh Hughes'
books:
if you possibly can, get all eight, as they are quite indispensable. I
have
a large but not very detailed collection of drawings from a wide range
of
sources, and can probably help with specific queries about rollingstock.
IRFCA members "on the spot" may be able to ferrett out specific diagrams
and
data for you. There is a terrible dearth of information about buildings
(I'd
advise all IRFCA members actually resident in India to photograph EVERY
building,
especially old ones, and record details, just so we have a record). The
Indian Railways Track Manual has a lot of information about track, and
used
to be available at the Kitab Mahal (government Bookshop).
Happy modelling
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: The Brabyns <cyberkiwi@earthlink.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 29 October 1999 9:13
Subject: Hi! & questions


>Hello there,
>
>I'm Trevor Brabyn, a recent convert to Indian model railroading. I have
>read the posts for Rajeev, and have some grasp of what this mailing
list
>is about, so you need not explain. I am interested in Indian railways
>more or less in the period 1910 - 1920. Do any of you have suggestions
>for modelling Indian rolling stock (passanger carriages, freight vans,
>etc) for this period in HO/OO (1:76) scale? Are there any drawings or
>plans available for this type of thing? I am not very picky about scale
>perfection, i.e. guage to scale discrepencies, perfect prototype
>reproduction model locos, etc, Also what do you use for Indian civilian
>bystanders for crowded railway stations? What is a good source for
books
>and films about rail on the subcontinent? Any help would be
appreciated.
>
> Cheers,
> Trevor
>
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: Maps !!!!

Date: 30 Oct 1999 02:45:27 -0500


Dear SAndeep,
You should return the map, perhaps after making a copy for your
own
use. Those things are irreplaceable.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: San-Ind <docqcs@nde.email
To: shankie@emirates.email <shankie@emirates.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 29 October 1999 7:18
Subject: Re: Maps !!!!


>Dear Mr. Shankar,
>Its nice to collect the Old + Contemporary Maps....
>
>I've an Old Historical Map of 1925 .... I'd got it from some book from
>Chandigarh Library i forgot the name of book......when i was studying
>there....... Actually i'd stolen it from that book.... I really feel
guilty
>that i'd stolen it.... but at that time i was a foolish School student
who
>do things like that....
>
>Its title is :
>INDEX MAP
>showing
>LINE SURVEYED OR PROJECTED
>IN THE KANGRA DISTRICT
>
>Its consist of Kangra Valley Railway........
>East Punjab etc.
>
>If u want i'll scan & send it to u......
>
>Regards
>Sandeep
>*-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**
-*-*
-*
>Digital Operation Consultancy Pvt. Ltd.
>90/30A, Ist Floor, Malviya Nagar,
>New Delhi-17
>Ph.91-11-6285286, 6451620, 6423136
>E-mail: docqcs@nd.email sandeep@docpl.email
>Web: www.docpl.com
>*-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**-*-*-**
-*-*
-
>*
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: IRFCA mailing list move

Date: 30 Oct 1999 02:52:54 -0500


Folks,
I CAN see one problem, and it relates to that assignment of
copyright,
quoted in the case of E-groups. I frequently write longish screeds on
partiocular topics, some of which have been modified (witjh my
permission)
and incorporated into the IRFCA website and FAQs. BUT (and this is the
rub)
I also quite frequently "recycle" what I write, using it in other, later
materials with or without modification. This is quite OK at present,
since
copyright rests with me, and has not been assigned.
The problem is that if copyright IS assigned, someone else might be
able to take and use my material, AND, even worse, I could find myself
in
the position of having lost control of my own intellectual property.
I think you can see that this might be a powerful inhibiting
factor in
contributing to full and free discussion on any site.
There may be solutions -- such as using a site which does not
demand
assignment of copyright -- but, while I fully sympathise with the
reasons
for going to an "administered" site, I' d like the copyright question
to be
taken into account in its choice.
With best wishes to all,
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Anand Krishnan <krish_nand@hotmail.email
To: tmwake@warwick.email <tmwake@warwick.email s_pai@bigfoot.email
<s_pai@bigfoot.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 29 October 1999 6:10
Subject: Re: IRFCA mailing list move


>Hi Gang,
>
>>
>>I was just using that as an example. Then again, possible new members
>>were searching the railroads list, IRFCA does not give any indication
as
>>to what the list pretains to.
>
> I too feel a bit sentimental about insisting on the list being
>called "irfca". Infact i associate all railfans only by this name. Well
all
>these can be kept in mind when we actually move. But when is this move
being
>planned. Anurag any inputs on this.
>
>regards,
>Anand
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: Rack-equipped YDM4

Date: 30 Oct 1999 03:14:05 -0500


Dear Heinrich,
Re your comments on the Indonesian Railways (and especially the
diseasel rack engines at Padang Pajang) I gather that the experiment was
never a success, and the volume of freight hauled over that line was
drastically reduced after the steam engines went. As always in
Indonesia,
some of the poblems can be attributed to sheer mismanagement and neglect
of
maintenance, but apparently there was a sharp drop in actual
load-hauling
capacity too. It's an interesting puzzle -- WHY do rack diesels not
work?
Cheers
Ken Walker


-----Original Message-----
From: hubbert@cityweb.email <hubbert@cityweb.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 28 October 1999 3:58
Subject: Re: Rack-equipped YDM4



Just to send back my view: Dr Walker is very right: From all
points, steam in NMR is best what ever. What I only wanted
to forsee is what would happen after the age of steam. It was an
utopia. Of course NMR could not turn into a vehicle reduced (like
Materan),ecologically proteced (because of mountains
=landslides), real south-indian mountain-jungles could be observed
without any traffic-noise echoing...

First to make an ending point about of the YDM 4 to put up in the
mountain - with a calf or what ever... what I ever found out in SITU
was:
The upper section was converted easily to YDM 4 BUT the rack
section
restricts the YDM 4 from NOT because the gradients are to steep,
BUT the
radius of the curves of the rack-section (remember Glendale
Estate) are
simply TO SHARP to let a YDM 4 run there!!! Forget it! They only
got the
"Bluy Diamond" there because, SR lifted it by steam-haulage up to
Coonoor.

Any serious consideration of changing the traction power on the
NMR from Steam could only lead to the decision: Grading up the
line (improving laying and axle-loading) electrify it (YAM! on the
upper section and something else - SLM has some aproved
technology here as well - on the rack-section) and put a lot of traffic
from road (as tourists of course and as well as goods!!!) to the rail
even
if necessary by REGULATIONS. This means, as others members proposed, a
clear evaluation of all aspects. The is a local interest to support the
railway as well as it is a national monument. Not only the construction
of
it self but as well as the entire, operation on the entire, so called
"third world", runing successfull in Indian Hands since almost Fifty
years!!! Dr Walker is right, I must addmit:

* NMR is absolutely unique in the so called "third world", witch also
leads to the next point of Dr Walker:

* The PERUMKA have extensive problems with their diesel-racks.
These are sophisticated ones frome the prime manufacturer in the
world BUT they are really getting already their second batch since
Dieselisation 15 years ago!!! Apart from that, their is no succesfull
runing, diesel-operated rack-railway in the world. Their are some of
such
diesel-powerd vehicles in Switzerland but these are marginal and one
must
consider the exellent state of Swiss railway maintanance. As far as I
Know, this line is mostly used for ore-traffic.

One exception: the 750mm gauge rack-railway (Abt like NMR) in
the north of the Ploponnes-peninsula of Greece (Diakopto -Klavrita)
is dieselized since the mid-60ties BUT with electric-powerd
railcars, supported by a generator-van, equiped with a Diesel-
engine and a DC-generator, coupled between the railcar and the
sub-car, whilst the latter is always shunted by the railcar mountain-
wards, whilst the generator-car is always coupled in between. A nice
operation, still running in 1999 (Eye-witnessed this year)! Actually,
everything was made to order a later elctrifictaion of the line with
easy
conversation of the DC (750 V) powered rail-cars to OHE (which in fact
never took place until nowadays) but in wintertime, when the road is
blocked by snow, its the only link for the Kalavritan-villagers to
access
the outa world.

As I have followed the news especially from the produceers side,
there is no way of any import of "new-way"-steamers (proposed
designs from SLM) because of "to expensive" (without evaluation).
Enough of speculation. Anand IS observations from Golden Rock
prove, that there will be some time left to get more awareness.
That is what I really meant: If Anands observations proves right,
WE get another 3 years time to build up more awareness (in the
public) about what´s up in the hills.
India is changing a lot since some years and will might do more in
the next millenium.

What really build my up was the news about the HGS steaming
out of Howrah.... How ever belived that would happen??

So much for now, excuse to everybody witch mind i´d upset.

Heinrich

BTW, we had a lot of Rack-railways here in Germany and they all
went to adhesion. Remember only the Ruebelandbahn: It is with
1:16 not that steep like the NMR but the racks were already
substituted before electrification (from DB-net isolated 25kV/50Hz-
System) by the "Animal"-class steam-locos and the main traffic
here are heavy bloc-trains loaded with lime. The most powerful
german locos are deployed here.




Whatsoever, it is a question of attitude to the region and the
environment.


On 27 Oct 99, at 16:12, Jayant S wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > ....However to maintain either hood leading operation both the
> > wheels on an axle and both the rails would have to carry the rack
and
> > pinion hardware. Or the rack YDM 4 loco would have to be driven
> > strictly in one direction (like strictly long hood leading in one
> > direction).
> I don't think driving long hood leading should be a major drawback
> on the rack sections: train speeds must be quite low. I am still
> not sure how much space would be there on YDM4 axles for adding a
> rack, but if any of us is near an MG section, one look under the
> loco should tell us something. Fouling should not be an issue.
> Maybe a rack only on one side would work, if there is place
> on the axle for the pinion.
>
> > How much of power of the loco must be used by the
> > rack engine ? If I remember correctly, the X class has smaller low
> > pressure cylinders which run from the exhaust of the main cylinder.
> I am not familiar with the X-class, but I thought any
> compound loco would have larger low-pressure cylinders ?
> Power distribution between rack and adhesion should depend
> on the gradient, I think, but I do not have the information
> to do any rough reckoning on this. Axleload limits would need
> to be considered if a special slug for a YDM4 is to be designed:
> that would determine if a single truck would be adequate
> or not. Asking SLM (or any appropriate supplier) to develop a rack
slug
> based on standard Swiss MG rack equipment, controllable from a
standard
> YDM4, could well be far cheaper than a new class of steam locomotive,
or
> converting the route to electrification. Even if we buy only power
> trucks from a supplier, the rest of the slug can be developed in
India.
> I can think off the top of my head about a three-axled slug with
coupled
> wheels and one traction motor, something like the WDS4 wheel
> arrangement. The traction motor would be frame mounted, and pinions
> could be placed on the outermost axles. Build ballast weights on this
> thing, and mu it to a YDM4.....hmmmm.
>
> > Will the DHR benefit
> > from a rack section and is it a fact that the B class (or any steam
> > power) provides better adhesion working than a NDM series power ?
> According to Dr Walker, the DHR is already suffering from
> slipping problems on severely graded sections. These could
> theoretically benefit from rack addition, if the B-class can
> also be modified. I am not sure how the tractive effort of
> the NDM, and its axleload, compare against that of the
> B-Class, which is what would influence adhesion. What
> is the current status of motive power on the DHR anyway ?
>
> > I propose a joint trip of the Mumbai and Pune gang to have a look at
> > the Tambaram MG shed for the YAM 1s.
> Sounds good, and I hope I can make some time for this.
> A stopover at NMR would also be a good idea, as I am
> getting very curious about rack operation. The excellent
> photos posted by one of our members (sorry I can't remember
> your name offhand !) look very inviting also.
>
> --
> JS
> --
>

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: irfca is 10 years old !

Date: 30 Oct 1999 04:21:33 -0500


HI Gang,
The fact that this list (thought temporary in the begginning)
has
lasted 10 fruitful years is a standing testimony of how much railways in

general and IR in particular has been loved and admired. 3 cheers to
IRFCA !
HIP HIP HURRAH x 3 ;-)!!.
A lot of credit to Dheeraj, Anurag for the list creation and
maintenance and cheif contributors in Apurva(Hero shall we say),
Shankar,
Shanku, Joydeep, Tim, Larry, John Lacey , Mumbaikars Viraf, Sarosh,
Srinivas(s'), Rajan Mathew and so many more who i feel guilty of not
remembering them at this moment 'coz they are so many of them, who kept
this
list going with some unbeleivable visuals and astounding information. I
only
wish this continues for many more years to come. I dont seems to tire
talking about IR and its greatness. Congrats all of u !!!

Kind regards,
Anand

P.S: Not many mails now-a-days from Dheeraj, Raymond, Joydeep. Busy i
guess
????


>From: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
>To: "'s_srinivas@vsnl.email <s_srinivas@vsnl.email Anand
Krishnan
><krish_nand@hotmail.email
>CC: iti@vsnl.email irfca@cs.email
>Subject: RE: irfca is 10 years old !
>Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 11:45:54 -0700
>
>Folks,
>
>We are exactly 2 months past the 10th anniversary - the very first
email to
>this list was sent on August 29, 1989.
>
>You can read the first email at
> <A HREF="http://www.irfca.org/mail/msg1.html">http://www.irfca.org/mail/msg1.html</A>
>
>Interestingly, now that we are thinking of moving the list to a new
server,
>it is funny to note Dheeraj's comment in the first mail:
>
>"But beware, this can be a temporary mailing list, since the
system-staff
>may not like the idea. But until that time,...."
>
>Well, "...." indeed! We are now close to reaching 10,000 messages!
>
>Just to give you an idea of how the list has grown in the last while,
here
>are approximate messages by year:
>
>1989: 155
>1990: 241
>1991: 351
>1992: 261
>1993: 74 (hmmm... slow year?)
>1994: 283
>1995: 115
>1996: 228
>1997: 365
>and then the dramatic leap, to
>1998: 2830
>1999 (to date): 3372
>
>and the last few months alone:
>
>July 1999: 410
>August 1999: 657
>September 1999: 818!
>October 1999 (to date): 457

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From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 30 Oct 1999 04:34:49 -0500


Hi Sridhar and gang,
Iam trying hard to get a picture of this somehow. I was at the
necklace road 2 consecutive evenings with my camera trying my luck at
some
train headed by a WDM2 with this new livery. I continue to toil. Apurva
how
about PA in the evening to check out HYB exp/Hussainsagar sometime, it
gets
these liveried locos. May be i should go the SC station one day and do
this
clandestinely.

BTW, in my earliermail i missed out two more railnuts in Sundar and
Vijay
who have contributed some lovely pix over the years on the IRFCA.
Quite sometime since someone had put up some pix up on the list.

(psssssst...Shankar dont mind eh! the weekend which i promised u to send
the
pix is yet to come. I have 6-7 given for scanning and its still there
next
to the scanner)

Kind regards,
Anand



>From: Sridhar Shankar <sshanka@gsbalum.email
>To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email Anand Krishnan
<krish_nand@hotmail.email
>CC: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey
>Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 15:51:40 -0400
>
>
>>
>>Yes I saw the new KZJ livery too at Pune, this is actually the Indian
>>flag's tricolour. I
>
>
>Anand, Apurva &Co,
>
>It would be great if we can get a picture of this beast! I can
visualize a
>very pretty looking WDM2 here.
>
>-Sridhar
>
>

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From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: irfca is 10 years old !

Date: 30 Oct 1999 05:14:21 -0500


Hi gang,

>It would be Pune's fortune if the world convention of IRFCA were to >be

>held in here.
More so 'coz there are necessary contacts at PA on the IR. My my
my i
was amazed during my last trip.

>Meeting other railfans is slowly becoming possible and things will
>happen
>soon.
It was indeed a very pleasant experience. Looking forward to more
meetings with IRFCA-ites

>I
>think a joint trip down the KR seems like a lot of fun. I am with >the
>IRFCA only for
>last year and a half. But then what a period this has been !
>
Yes that applies to me too. I was there only from early '98. A
trip
on KR is fine but when do most of us get together, especially our
members
abroad.

>others. Apologies if I have left out any of 'elders'. It is entirely
due to
>my
>ignorance and not intended to belittle their contribution to the IRFCA.
true Apurva, this list cud not have come this far if not for
everyone, even if it was just one mail by a person. My wishes for all
those
who have been responsible for keeping this list active and lively.

regards,
Anand

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From: S.SRINIVAS <>

Subject: Re: Greatest Experience

Date: 30 Oct 1999 11:35:33 -0500


Anand Krishnan wrote:

> There are a few experiences tha each one of us here
> would love to do and one of them is "footplating'.

> Its one of the greatest experiences a rail fan can have.

AK

====================================

YES. I AGREE.

But the ULTIMATE EXPERIENCE is -
DRIVING A LOCO or
better still DRIVING A TRAIN.

And not all are lucky to have this kind of
an experience. I mean those outside of IR.

I was lucky to have a very brief (a fleeting)
dream of an experience. One of these days
I will share it with all u guys and gals. It was
in 1969 - a good 30 years ago - and I have
to devote some good amount of time to
prepare a detailed and accurate report.

Regards

S. SRINIVAS

=================================

From: Anand I.S. <>

Subject: Happy birthday

Date: 30 Oct 1999 15:02:47 -0500


To all friends,

Wish irfca many, many happy returns on its 10th. birthday. Trust will
continue 4 many yrs. to come, providing not only great infos, but also
helping 2 aquire many friends Whatever Be The Differences. The world is
one
great swell place 2 live and there are naturally many diversities. But r
v
all not bonded by the common luv 4 wheel on steel ? lets keep it at
that.

Wish the best once again and thanks a lot for the administers.
anand

isadeltic@hotmail.email

F/6, BALAKA,
SWASTIK PARK,
CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
INDIA.
Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
Tel(O): 91+22+2623235


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