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From: Anand I.S. <>

Subject: NRM/NMR

Date: 30 Oct 1999 15:12:21 -0500


To all friends,

Till quite some time back, Niligiri Rly. was just OOTY Rly or Niligiri
Rly.
While NMR used to be refer 2 Neral-Matheran Rly. Hence the confusion.

While on the subject, Neral-Materan Rly had a works accident with some
casualties and the rly has not operated for the past few days.

Definite info on the section is expected by 2.11.99.

anand

isadeltic@hotmail.email

F/6, BALAKA,
SWASTIK PARK,
CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
INDIA.
Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
Tel(O): 91+22+2623235


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From: Anand I.S. <>

Subject: Hi Harsh

Date: 30 Oct 1999 15:35:36 -0500


Hi Harsh,

Thanx 4 ur reply and that u have indeed preserved my article and it will
be
shortly published !

Yes it was me who had rung ur house not only on that day, but also
previously before twice. But u were always out, and each time I did
leave my
name and Bombay.

anyhow it does'nt matter now that we can easily communicate.
Don't worry about me trying to electrify NRM; I will not as long as it
does'nt get all Steamed up !

Things are damn interesting on the irfca, but not having the time to
fully
and effectively participate due to time and other constraints.
Hope to by the yr. end.

I dont think that all diesels and electrics are 'boxies'. If so, then by
the
same token, steam is just Tube & Pipe. There is a charm in ALL
motive power, of every era to date. However I feel that we all love
locos and trains made up of coaches and wagons and that there is not
much charm in EMUs or DMUs. I stand to be corrected .

The romance is of the loco coming up to its train and picking it up and

away, and again going off. Not just mere back & forth movements.
The TGVs, ICEs the new TALGOS, Bullet trains seem to be jets on the
track whooshing past, but there could be some fans for them.

Coming back, 'novelty' of the train ride, Neral-matheran, Shimla-Kalka
DHR, have NOT LOST passengers because steam has been removed. They are
all
doing well. So is the Niligiri rly, even though from Coonoor u
have YDM4s. IT IS THE TRAIN that matters to the general public, and not
the
MOTIVE POWER. The MP is just for us fans. To the general public all that

they enjoy is to run alongwith the train and do some silly antics, to
probably(in their minds) impress girls !!.

Anyhow as die-hard fans v have 2 ensur that the rly. stays, where
ever it can be saved, no matter the motove power.

Bye for now.

isanand

isadeltic@hotmail.email

F/6, BALAKA,
SWASTIK PARK,
CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
INDIA.
Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
Tel(O): 91+22+2623235


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Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Railfans/Design

Date: 30 Oct 1999 19:29:48 -0500


"Anand I.S." wrote:
>
> Hi Harsh,
>
> Thanx 4 ur reply and that u have indeed preserved my article and it
will be
> shortly published !
>
> Yes it was me who had rung ur house not only on that day, but also
> previously before twice. But u were always out, and each time I did
leave my
> name and Bombay.
>
> anyhow it does'nt matter now that we can easily communicate.
> Don't worry about me trying to electrify NRM; I will not as long as it
> does'nt get all Steamed up !
>
> Things are damn interesting on the irfca, but not having the time to
fully
> and effectively participate due to time and other constraints.

> The romance is of the loco coming up to its train and picking it up
and
> away, and again going off. Not just mere back & forth movements.
> The TGVs, ICEs the new TALGOS, Bullet trains seem to be jets on the
> track whooshing past, but there could be some fans for them.

I am personally fanatical about anything that moves on rails:
even shop-floor trolleys fascinate me. :)

Apart from all motive power, I quite enjoy DMU/EMUs also,
and I think the TGVs and the new Shinkansen trains are
particularly well designed. Which reminds me: there was
a thread some time ago about IR needing to address the
appearance of its rolling stock and power. An industrial
design department in RDSO could easily address this, and
there are many Indian professionals who can do this.
The internal layout for a diesel cab (WDG2 ?) was
designed by the National Institute of Design, and
is apparently liked by the drivers.

And, of course, best wishes to fellow IRFCA members
on the completion of a decade in the life of a
very engrossing list indeed !

--
JS
--

From: The Brabyns <>

Subject: Re: Hi! & questions

Date: 30 Oct 1999 19:32:52 -0500


Thanks Apurva! I found it quite interesting, and although I am modelling
a
different period, it's really something to aspire to, along with Ken's
site.

Cheers,
Trevor

Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Hi Trevor,
>
> Please check Dinyar Antia's work on HO scale models based on the IR
locos
> and stock
> Go to my index page and click on the second last link, please take
some time
> to check the rest of the page too !
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
>
> Apurva
>
> The Brabyns wrote:
>
> > Hello there,
> >
> > I'm Trevor Brabyn, a recent convert to Indian model railroading. I
have
> > read the posts for Rajeev, and have some grasp of what this mailing
list
> > is about, so you need not explain. I am interested in Indian
railways
> > more or less in the period 1910 - 1920. Do any of you have
suggestions
> > for modelling Indian rolling stock (passanger carriages, freight
vans,
> > etc) for this period in HO/OO (1:76) scale? Are there any drawings
or
> > plans available for this type of thing? I am not very picky about
scale
> > perfection, i.e. guage to scale discrepencies, perfect prototype
> > reproduction model locos, etc, Also what do you use for Indian
civilian
> > bystanders for crowded railway stations? What is a good source for
books
> > and films about rail on the subcontinent? Any help would be
appreciated.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Trevor

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 30 Oct 1999 21:45:17 -0500




> Apurva how
> about PA in the evening to check out HYB exp/Hussainsagar sometime, it
gets
> these liveried locos. May be i should go the SC station one day and
do this
> clandestinely.

There is no problem at all about getting a pic of this 'national flag'
livery. Usually
there are a couple of Kazipet powers stabled in the Daund end sidings in
the evening.
I will get a pic soon.

Apurva

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Special Train

Date: 30 Oct 1999 23:50:26 -0500


I was in a used book store today and found a few pieces of
wonderful old ephemera from vairous S. Asian Railways.

I purchased one of them.

I have a time table specially printed up for a special train
conveying his excellency Mr. Ghulam Mohammed
Governor-General of Pakistan
and Suite
from Rawalpindi to Karachi

Nov. 1951 <-- note lack of date!

It says "North Western Railway" and has their crest in gold leaf.

It's got the timetable for the train printed on parchment inside.

All printed in green on buff and very elegant.


----
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: GZB AC POWERS

Date: 31 Oct 1999 01:48:24 -0500


Please do not leave the rest of the gang out of such a juicy thread (!)
Apparently the new ABB GZB powers are maintained by the ABB engineers in
a separate shed.

Apurva

"S.SRINIVAS" wrote:

> Dear Apurva
>
> They are very badly maintained.
>
> Once in a while, the GZB powers find
> their way up to SBC. The local staff
> bring it to some good working level.
> I know of a case when a GZB WAP-1
> had to be sent accross to AJJ for repairs
> because no driver was willing to sign for it.
>
> The mistrust the drivers show for the shed
> staff's performance is well known. More so
> if the crew is from other zones. For example,
> SCR drivers taking over a BZA shed WAP
> leads to a lot of bickerings at MAS.
>
> Yes KJM stands out in their good performance.
>
> Regards
>
> S. SRINIVAS
>
> ==========================
> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > >
> > > When it comes to mtce. of WAM and WAP locos, Ghaziabad
stands out. Drivers
> > > generally inspect the Ghaziabad locos very thoroughly before
taking over.
> >
> > Does it mean that GZB powers are good or are they suspect ?

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: Modelling Indian Railways

Date: 31 Oct 1999 02:29:21 -0500


Dear Trevor,
I get the picture. Yes, obviously 1:76.2 would offer at least
partial
compatibility with 1:72 wargaming, etc! And 1:87 really would result in
discrepancies. As it is, we use HO figures quite happily for 4mm scale,
because of the smaller stature of most Indians. But 1:72 figures on a
1:87
layout would be giants!
For that sort of thing, the NW Frontier would offer some nice
possibilities. I don't know if you are aware of it, but there's a book
called Couplings to the Khyber, by P.S.A. Berridge (Newton Abbott: David
&
Charles, 1969; ISBN 7153 4342 4) which is a history of the North Western
Railway and its successor the Pakistan Western. It's very informative,
though there is a very strong emphasis on the civil engineering side.
You had two gauges in that area, if we discount a brief flirtation
with
metre gauge in the 1880s. The main lines through the Khyber and Bolan
Passes
were broad gauge, but there were a number of narrow gauge lines in the
area,
all, to 2ft 6ins gauge. A possible prototype for a mixed-gauge operation
would be Bostan, near Quetta, where the Zhob Valley line (Bostan-Fort
Sandeman) intersects the frontier line to Chaman.
I'd suggest disposing of your HO track at a local swapmeet (I
think
you're in New Zealand, from the evidence of your E-mail address, but
even
there they must have them) and using the proceeds to get something a
little
more realistic. As to things looking wrong, you do have to make up your
own
mind here, but Indian BG is BROAD -- 5ft 6ins gauge -- and it looks it.
To
my eyes, OO models, with their 4ft 1.5ins gauge, look knock-kneed
already,
and double track is a disaster, because it has to be spaced
unrealistically
far apart, to counter the excessive overhang. BG on OO would be 5.5mm
undergauge, a discrepancy of 25% of the track gauge. That would REALLY
be
knock-kneed! In fact, it's closer to MG than BG.
As to track, NO, I don't use ready-made S gauge track, and NO,
22mm is
not S gauge as far as I know. My track is hand-built. It isn't very
difficult, and with practice it can get very satisfying. The basic point
is
to equip yourself with a decent and consistent set of gauges from the
start -- that's a rule even in coarse-scale like OO, and it's essential
if
you want to do anything better. You need as a minimum a track gauge
(TG),
wheel back-to-back gauge (BB), crossing flangeway gauge (CF), and check
rail
setting gauge (CG), all from the same source. I'd suggest either NMRA
RP25-88 wheels or fine-scale (P4 if for 4mm, P87 if for HO). Decent
standards can eliminate hundreds of hours of grief.
I make my track two ways: some of it (and all pointwork) is
soldered to
copper-clad paxolin (PC board) sleepers, with or without rail
baseplates.
(THese can be purchased from the UK, ready-cut). And some is made from
the
components available from C&L models in UK, which include plastic
sleepers
(not essential -- you can use ply, e.g.) and baseplates. These fit codes
83
and 75 FB rail; for your time period, Code 75 would be suitable, since
it's
fairly close to the full-size 90lb rail, which would have been the
heaviest
in use at that time; Code 65 or 60 would be even better since there was
a
lot of 75lb rail about in those days. But a warning -- don't try to use
rail
smaller than Code 100 with coarse-scale flanges such as Trongby -- they
condemn you to inaccuracy. For bull-head track, there are C&L components
available, to fit standard Code 75 BH rail (= 90lb) and once again
assembly
is by solvent. You could cut standard HO or similar track apart and
re-gauge
it by sticking it down on (say) card; if doing that, I'd advise against
Peco
track, as it's to 1:87 scale. Use the C&L track, which is 4mm scale.
My own narrow-gauge track is once again NOT to a standard gauge: it
is
10mm gauge, exact for 2ft 6in gauge in 4mm scale. I can use HOe or OO9
mechanisms by pushing the wheels out, though I generally don't since
scratch-building is quicker and easier. (See my comments on NG in the
last
E-mail). AS you'd expect, it's copper-clad again, with mostly Code 55
rail
(50lb -- a bit heavy for NG). I'd have no compunction in using Code 40
if
starting again -- it looks so much better, close to the real 30-35lb.
As to mechanisms, you could easily start by adding decent-quality
wheels (the best are Ultrascale) on longer axles to proprietary
underframes,
so as to get something running, and styrene superstructures would fit
your
needs and existing skills very weel at least in the first stage.
(Continental Muddler had a drawing of an SGS in a recent issue -- a
basic
0-6-0 tender engine ideal for the NWF, and easy enough to bodge.)
With best wishes,
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: The Brabyns <cyberkiwi@earthlink.email
To: Dr. K.J. Walker <kjw_meh@powerup.email
Date: 30 October 1999 4:34
Subject: Re: Hi! & questions


>Hi Ken,
>
>Thanks for all the great information! I had originally thought to use
OO
because
>I really like the 4mm scale, as it is compatible with my other main
hobby
of
>Colonial miniature wargaming in 25mm or 1:72, from which I have
branched
out
>into model railroading. Also I still have a fair bit of segmented HO
track
>around the house left over from when I was little. Thus, being of the
school of
>not worrying about scale/guage, and there being British equipment that
could be
>converted to look like Indian models on the market already, I thought
OO
guage
>would be great. I am a beginner in the hobby, though have had
modelmaking
and
>scratchbuilding experience. I have been considering modelling the hill
railways
>like the Khyber or Bolan Pass lines, which is broad guage. However I
haven't
>settled on any particular railway for sure, and I might do something
else.
I am
>still interested, though, in this 22mm track you mentioned. It's
S-guage,
right?
>Is the OO guage really that jarring to look at? I admittedly know
little of
>Indian railways so don't have a set picture in my mind. Did you
scratchbuild all
>the stuff on the Barfi Light Railway? It looks very nice. What guage is
it
in?
>
> Cheers,
> Trevor
>
>Dr. K.J. Walker wrote:
>
>> Dear Trevor Brabyn,
>> India is a magnificent subject for model railways because so
little
has
>> been done, and there are so many wonderful prototypes and locations
begging
>> for modelling attention. Indian modellers do exist. You probably
know of
my
>> article on my "Barfi Light Railway" in the Continental Muddler (May
1991);
>> and I presume of other short pieces since. There are a couple of
pictures
of
>> the BLR on my website at <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>.
>> There are hundreds of stunning locations all over India, and they
need
>> not be neglected. You don't need anything super-dramatic: on the
scale of
a
>> model railway even a small hill is a mountain. I got most of the
effects
on
>> the BLR by modelling actual places (particularly Chintamani for
Kutcha
>> Bazar, and Tirupattur for Chinnapettai) and paying careful attention
to
>> local colour. Also, avoid clutter -- make everything
>> spacious.
>> Many model in HO scale (1:87, 3.5mm:1 ft) but a few of us use 4mm
scale
>> (1:76.2, 4mm:1 ft) either for convenience or because of long
committment
to
>> the scale. You should be aware that there is no such thing as HO/OO
SCALE,
>> because scale is a ratio, and you can't mix two ratios and get
accurate
>> modelling: HO is correctly-scaled 1:87 models with correct STANDARD
gauge
>> track, and OO is an appalling British commercial hybrid which results
in
>> your running 4mm scale trains on 4ft 1-1/2in gauge track. (While I
>> sympathise very strongly with the "get something running" attiutude,
I'd
>> advise against falling into the trap of thinking that OO is "easy".
I've
>> been in the hobby since 1948, and in my view OO is a disaster because
>> nothing fits, the wheel standards are so bad that everything falls
off,
and
>> it ALWAYS looks wrong. Even EM is easier, and finsescale standards
are a
>> dream. If you have even basic skills, get it right from the start --
>> youi'll never regret it.) If you are going to model Indian, there is
a
lot
>> of scratch-building (or at least massive modification) ahead of you,
so
it's
>> important to get scale-gauge ratios right in the first place.
ESPECIALLY
if
>> you run mixed gauge, incorrect track gauges can ruin the effect. What
>> follows here are some thoughts of my own on the topic.
>> If you model in HO, you could use HOm track for Indian MG --
it's
>> actually a little out, as metre gauge ought to be 11.494mm, but it's
close
>> enough unless you are modelling to P87 standards. Similarly, HOe
track
will
>> do for 2ft 6in gauge (ought to be 8.75mm). BG is more of a problem: I
have
>> gone the whole hog in 4mm:1ft scale and adopted 22mm gauge, but for
HO
you
>> really need 19.26mm gauge, which don't come ready-made! One curious
>> advantage of fine-scale is that since we build a lot of our own track
and
>> pointwork anyway, we tend to be quite easy about changing gauges. I
use
>> 10mm, 13.12mm, and 22mm for NG, MG, and BG in 4mm scale. However, one
"mean
>> and dirty" dodge is to cut ordinary track down the centre and then
re-lay
to
>> a different gauge; you still have to build your own points, though.
Another
>> possibility which beckons is to use 3mm:1ft scale (TT3, in UK) on HO
track:
>> the gauge is exact for Indian BG. As many Indian locos and much stock
were
>> UK-built, the adoption of the "British" scales means that a wealth of
spare
>> parts is available. This would be of especial importance for the
1920s ---
>> contemporary modellers using diseasels have similarly powerful
reasons
for
>> choosing 1:87 scale.
>> For steam loco mechanisms especially, NG in particular poses
problems,
>> as there are few commercial ones having outside frames; from that
point
of
>> view, MG is probably more promising. But you may find, as I did, that
it's
>> cheaper, quicker, and easier to build your own from available parts.
You
>> will find that there is almost nothing available commercially.
Langley do
a
>> white-metal kit for a DHR "B" class (not good, in my view) and
Backwoods
are
>> promising both the "B" and the Garratt in etched brass for late this
year
or
>> early next. There are no coaching stock or wagons stock bits except
for
Bill
>> Bedford's NG coaching underframe, produced at my instance some years
ago.
>> Meridian couplings will do for NG/MG "choppers". As for people, we
have
>> mostly bought Preiser unpainteds, and modified them using body putty
or
>> Milliput, plus tissue. Preiser do a couple of painted Indians -- a
Sikh
in a
>> suit and a woman in a sari -- but you're soon going to get bored with
those,
>> and they don't much resemble the crowds at stations.
>> Information is your chief bottleneck. There are virtually no
drawings
>> available in the model press -- a ZB and an SGS in Continental
Muddler in
>> recent years, the DHR "B" about ten times over the last 50 years, one
set
of
>> coaching stock drawings for NG (mine) and some more in the works, I
think.
>> There are numerous good sources in the UK, and the weight diagrams
issued
by
>> the various railways can suffice for rough models, though they always
need
>> supplementing by photos of the real thing.
>> For motive power details, I'd suggest referring to Hugh Hughes'
books:
>> if you possibly can, get all eight, as they are quite indispensable.
I
have
>> a large but not very detailed collection of drawings from a wide
range of
>> sources, and can probably help with specific queries about
rollingstock.
>> IRFCA members "on the spot" may be able to ferrett out specific
diagrams
and
>> data for you. There is a terrible dearth of information about
buildings
(I'd
>> advise all IRFCA members actually resident in India to photograph
EVERY
>> building,
>> especially old ones, and record details, just so we have a record).
The
>> Indian Railways Track Manual has a lot of information about track,
and
used
>> to be available at the Kitab Mahal (government Bookshop).
>> Happy modelling
>> Ken Walker
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The Brabyns <cyberkiwi@earthlink.email
>> To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>> Date: 29 October 1999 9:13
>> Subject: Hi! & questions
>>
>> >Hello there,
>> >
>> >I'm Trevor Brabyn, a recent convert to Indian model railroading. I
have
>> >read the posts for Rajeev, and have some grasp of what this mailing
list
>> >is about, so you need not explain. I am interested in Indian
railways
>> >more or less in the period 1910 - 1920. Do any of you have
suggestions
>> >for modelling Indian rolling stock (passanger carriages, freight
vans,
>> >etc) for this period in HO/OO (1:76) scale? Are there any drawings
or
>> >plans available for this type of thing? I am not very picky about
scale
>> >perfection, i.e. guage to scale discrepencies, perfect prototype
>> >reproduction model locos, etc, Also what do you use for Indian
civilian
>> >bystanders for crowded railway stations? What is a good source for
books
>> >and films about rail on the subcontinent? Any help would be
appreciated.
>> >
>> > Cheers,
>> > Trevor
>> >
>> >
>
>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Jhelum livery mixed

Date: 31 Oct 1999 02:47:02 -0500


Observed the 1078 Up Jhelum rolling into Pune Jn. today. The rake is
dark blue with a light blue line at the windows. However the pantry car
and the AC sleepers (one AC 3T and 2 AC 2T) are now of the 'normal'
rust colour). Just a fortnight ago the entire rake was of uniform colour
(dark blue - light blue)
In contrast the short distance trains like Deccan Express/ Pragati/
Deccan Queen/ Indrayani/ Shatabdi rakes are usually of an uniform
livery.

Apurva

From: Muhammed Khan <>

Subject: Temp unsubscribe

Date: 31 Oct 1999 06:06:03 -0500


Hi AB
Please unsubscribe me temporarily since I will be out to UK and India.
See you again.
Muhammed

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Notes from my weekend rail journey

Date: 31 Oct 1999 08:44:03 -0500


> Apurva,
> Can U please elaborate on how Ludhiana powers land at
PA(What
> is the allocation?).

These are freight powers which come on a late and non standard link.
Although
extremely rare the LDH powers used to come on the Goa Express, I have
seen them only
twice in many years. But from the beat up appearance they seem like
freight locos
which were pressed into emergency duty due to failure of the regular
(Itarsi) loco.
For the past 2 - 3 years Pune power handles the Goa Express between
Londa and Manmad
while a ET or a GZB WAM 4 handles it towards NZM.
After so many years of observation I have come to recognise a freight
train that is
regular in the link and one that is a one off rake, the 'long way from
home' diesel
powers invariably work the irregular link.
At Pune you would see WDM 2 powers from {in the order of maximum
population) PA (home
shed), Guntakal, Kazipet, Kalyan , Erode, KJM, Gooty, Itarsi, GOC locos
with no zonal
markings. Ratlam, Jhansi, LDH do not even form 1 % of the sightings.

Apurva

From: S.SRINIVAS <>

Subject: Re: MAS-SBC

Date: 31 Oct 1999 09:34:04 -0500


Dear IR fans

Are Bangalore and Chennai drifting apart ?
And I am not referring to the Cavery waters issue
!
It has got to do everything with IR.

In 1974 the chargeable distance for MAS-SBC
was 351 Km. It went up in stages to 353, 355,
357 & 360 Km and now it stands at 361 Km.

The actual distance - as per the marker stone
physically present in SBC - is 355.400 Km.
(SR has put markers every 100 m on all its
lines).

Last week I bought tickets for my journey
SBC-MAS-SBC. While the outward SBC-MAS
(by 6008 mail) ticket give the distance as 361 Km
the return ticket (by 6222 Kaveri Exp) has the
distance as 362 Km. Luckily, 362 falls in the
same fare rate slab as 361. Before we realise it,
the IR would continue this drift further to the
next
higher slab of fare.

The justifications given by SR earlier was :

i. the length of the newly laid down track
was 5 Km. more. (It is true).

ii. the length was being marked again with
greater accuracy. (I hope the IR used
a distance meter of great accuracy, not
by using a meter taken out of an Auto-
rickshaw plying on MAS roads which,
generally, show 25 % higher figure).

iii. electrification distance being used.
(this logic beats me totally - maybe the IR
guys passed bills for a higher distance in
favour of the OHE contractors)

Now, even if doubling of certain section on
deviated routes results in some slightly higher
distance, the IR should charge the fare between
two stations based only on the average distance.
Not based on the higher of the two figures.

I wonder what could be the explanation for
the distance being marked as 361 and 362.
Anyone has any idea about how the IR
PRS software calculates the distance ?
What is the basis or source for the data
base in PRS for the distance figures.

I would also like to know if a similar
phenomenon has occurred elsewhere on IR.
Or is it limited only to MAS-SBC.

Regards

S. Srinivas

=============================

From: Anand I.S. <>

Subject: Rail Designs/Fans

Date: 31 Oct 1999 13:32:48 -0500


Hi JS, and others,

I am in total agreement with you. Anything that moves on rails is very

passionate to me, though I may have my preferences. That does't mean
that
anything else is derogatory. And I most vehemently do not subscribe to
the
idea, that to prove one's credentials that one is indeed a rail-lover,
one
has got to acknowledge being a Steam lover first and foremost.

Yes there is a certain thrill about all the High-speed trains composed
of
Units. It is of great elavation. But the charm of a loco is another with
her
train, a certain aura, a great feeling of unexplained emotions.

But boss, we certainly do need the super services to transport us, be it
for
business or pleasure, esp. if it is going to cart us to some other rail
site
!

i say live and let live; The old as well as the new !

Bye for now.


anand i.s.

isadeltic@hotmail.email

F/6, BALAKA,
SWASTIK PARK,
CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
INDIA.
Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
Tel(O): 91+22+2623235


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From: Anand I.S. <>

Subject: Footplating

Date: 31 Oct 1999 13:44:42 -0500


Hi Srini,

May I offer you a piece of advice. the above subject is quite delicate
and when we freely discuss all these, we should ensur that no railman/
men friends of ours come into difficulties. I have had tremendous
experiences on this score, esp. driving, but prefer to do so
, so as to not create a difficult ground, for it could sound the death
knell
of such activity, esp. in todays realm of 'security-phobia'

anand is.
.

isadeltic@hotmail.email

F/6, BALAKA,
SWASTIK PARK,
CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
INDIA.
Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
Tel(O): 91+22+2623235


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From: bhanu prakash kanneganti <>

Subject: Re: MAS-SBC

Date: 31 Oct 1999 23:29:03 -0500



dera mr srinivas,
in reply to your letter,there is a instance in scr.the distance from
secunderabad to rajamundry is 499 kms on up line and in down line it is
500 kms. so for this there is is differenceof fare in boh lines of 20
rupees for sleeper class, rs 80 for iind ac.many people have complained
about this to railways of this fare difference,but of no use.
from
k.b.p

On Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:04:04 S.SRINIVAS wrote:
>Dear IR fans
>
>Are Bangalore and Chennai drifting apart ?
>And I am not referring to the Cavery waters issue
>!
>It has got to do everything with IR.
>
>In 1974 the chargeable distance for MAS-SBC
>was 351 Km. It went up in stages to 353, 355,
>357 & 360 Km and now it stands at 361 Km.
>
>The actual distance - as per the marker stone
>physically present in SBC - is 355.400 Km.
>(SR has put markers every 100 m on all its
>lines).
>
>Last week I bought tickets for my journey
>SBC-MAS-SBC. While the outward SBC-MAS
>(by 6008 mail) ticket give the distance as 361 Km
>the return ticket (by 6222 Kaveri Exp) has the
>distance as 362 Km. Luckily, 362 falls in the
>same fare rate slab as 361. Before we realise it,
>the IR would continue this drift further to the
>next
>higher slab of fare.
>
>The justifications given by SR earlier was :
>
>i. the length of the newly laid down track
> was 5 Km. more. (It is true).
>
>ii. the length was being marked again with
> greater accuracy. (I hope the IR used
> a distance meter of great accuracy, not
> by using a meter taken out of an Auto-
> rickshaw plying on MAS roads which,
> generally, show 25 % higher figure).
>
>iii. electrification distance being used.
> (this logic beats me totally - maybe the IR
> guys passed bills for a higher distance in
> favour of the OHE contractors)
>
>Now, even if doubling of certain section on
>deviated routes results in some slightly higher
>distance, the IR should charge the fare between
>two stations based only on the average distance.
>Not based on the higher of the two figures.
>
>I wonder what could be the explanation for
>the distance being marked as 361 and 362.
>Anyone has any idea about how the IR
>PRS software calculates the distance ?
>What is the basis or source for the data
>base in PRS for the distance figures.
>
>I would also like to know if a similar
>phenomenon has occurred elsewhere on IR.
>Or is it limited only to MAS-SBC.
>
>Regards
>
>S. Srinivas
>
>=============================
>
>
>


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From: bhanu prakash kanneganti <>

Subject: Re: MAS-SBC

Date: 31 Oct 1999 23:29:07 -0500



dear mr srinivas,
in reply to your letter,there is a instance in scr.the distance from
secunderabad to rajamundry is 499 kms on up line and in down line it is
500 kms. so for this there is is differenceof fare in boh lines of 20
rupees for sleeper class, rs 80 for iind ac.many people have complained
about this to railways of this fare difference,but of no use.
from
k.b.p

On Sun, 31 Oct 1999 23:04:04 S.SRINIVAS wrote:
>Dear IR fans
>
>Are Bangalore and Chennai drifting apart ?
>And I am not referring to the Cavery waters issue
>!
>It has got to do everything with IR.
>
>In 1974 the chargeable distance for MAS-SBC
>was 351 Km. It went up in stages to 353, 355,
>357 & 360 Km and now it stands at 361 Km.
>
>The actual distance - as per the marker stone
>physically present in SBC - is 355.400 Km.
>(SR has put markers every 100 m on all its
>lines).
>
>Last week I bought tickets for my journey
>SBC-MAS-SBC. While the outward SBC-MAS
>(by 6008 mail) ticket give the distance as 361 Km
>the return ticket (by 6222 Kaveri Exp) has the
>distance as 362 Km. Luckily, 362 falls in the
>same fare rate slab as 361. Before we realise it,
>the IR would continue this drift further to the
>next
>higher slab of fare.
>
>The justifications given by SR earlier was :
>
>i. the length of the newly laid down track
> was 5 Km. more. (It is true).
>
>ii. the length was being marked again with
> greater accuracy. (I hope the IR used
> a distance meter of great accuracy, not
> by using a meter taken out of an Auto-
> rickshaw plying on MAS roads which,
> generally, show 25 % higher figure).
>
>iii. electrification distance being used.
> (this logic beats me totally - maybe the IR
> guys passed bills for a higher distance in
> favour of the OHE contractors)
>
>Now, even if doubling of certain section on
>deviated routes results in some slightly higher
>distance, the IR should charge the fare between
>two stations based only on the average distance.
>Not based on the higher of the two figures.
>
>I wonder what could be the explanation for
>the distance being marked as 361 and 362.
>Anyone has any idea about how the IR
>PRS software calculates the distance ?
>What is the basis or source for the data
>base in PRS for the distance figures.
>
>I would also like to know if a similar
>phenomenon has occurred elsewhere on IR.
>Or is it limited only to MAS-SBC.
>
>Regards
>
>S. Srinivas
>
>=============================
>
>
>


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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: GZB AC POWERS

Date: 01 Nov 1999 05:57:42 -0500


Hi !

My request is the same, why leave the rest of the IRFCA out of such
juicy news ?
Please do mark a copy to the rest of the gang for their participation.
You could
elaborate the work you have done at the GZB shed. Lucky YOU !

Apurva

From: andrist <>

Subject: Re: Footplating + books

Date: 01 Nov 1999 06:31:51 -0500



A) Dear Anand, I agree with you; unless a permit has been issued in due
form, footplating (not to speak of driving...) is best left to private
enjoyment and verbal comments to friends. It would be true in most
countries. If the attitude is more liberal in India, lucky you, but
enjoy it
quietly otherwise someone in command will clamp down. If not yet
happening,
sooner or later these exchanges will also be read by people in high
places.
Who knows, Mamata may be interested in the comments on the
(non)maintenance
of engines in some sheds...
B) In one of the mail, mention was made of the book "Permanent Way
through
the Khyber", by Berridge.
I got a copy of this rare book in August from a British 2nd hand
bookseller,
but at the rather steep price of Lstg 35.00. I do not know what is your
policy on the issue of giving commercial addresses, for example of this
second hand bookseller, but its available with me if of interest to
anyone.
Regards - JF Andrist

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: irfca is 10 years old !

Date: 01 Nov 1999 06:43:55 -0500


Thanks for the info, Shanku. It's exciting to see the club grow by
leaps
and bounds,
thanks to all you "freaks" (in a positive sense :-) ) who have
tirelessly
contributed to this club and will
continue to do so for many more years to come.

Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shanku Niyogi [SMTP:shankun@microsoft.email
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 2:46 PM
> To: 's_srinivas@vsnl.email Anand Krishnan
> Cc: iti@vsnl.email irfca@cs.email
> Subject: RE: irfca is 10 years old !
>
> Folks,
>
> We are exactly 2 months past the 10th anniversary - the very first
email
> to
> this list was sent on August 29, 1989.
>
> You can read the first email at
> <A HREF="http://www.irfca.org/mail/msg1.html">http://www.irfca.org/mail/msg1.html</A>
>
> Interestingly, now that we are thinking of moving the list to a new
> server,
> it is funny to note Dheeraj's comment in the first mail:
>
> "But beware, this can be a temporary mailing list, since the
system-staff
> may not like the idea. But until that time,...."
>
> Well, "...." indeed! We are now close to reaching 10,000 messages!
>
> Just to give you an idea of how the list has grown in the last while,
here
> are approximate messages by year:
>
> 1989: 155
> 1990: 241
> 1991: 351
> 1992: 261
> 1993: 74 (hmmm... slow year?)
> 1994: 283
> 1995: 115
> 1996: 228
> 1997: 365
> and then the dramatic leap, to
> 1998: 2830
> 1999 (to date): 3372
>
> and the last few months alone:
>
> July 1999: 410
> August 1999: 657
> September 1999: 818!
> October 1999 (to date): 457

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Needs tips for KR travel

Date: 01 Nov 1999 06:49:44 -0500


Thanks so much for this valuable information. Looks like I'll be
encountering most of
the Ghats in the night, since the GIM-Nagercoil Exp. reaches Sawantwadi
around 6.30 am. Maybe,
a future Mumbai-Goa trip on a day train such as the Mandvi Exp. would
resolve that.

Any interesting stations (in terms of architecture, track layout, sheds,
...) that I should watch out for?

Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rajan Mathew [SMTP:rajanmathew@telebot.email
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 3:52 PM
> To: Apurva Bahadur
> Cc: Vijay Balasubramanian; irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Needs tips for KR travel
>
> Gang - (especially to Apurva, Vijay, Sarosh and anyone taking the KR
soon)
>
> Lets start from Diva. As you move out , observe from the left the
junction
> from the CR main line and the line coming from Dombivili (I met Anand
> yesterday who shared this tip with me - and even Sundar swears by this
> junction .... ). You can see the triangle quite clearly. Then,
generally
> right till Chiplun you can sit/observe the right hand side (when
headed
> towards Goa). The scenery is more varied and more open spaces. (The
other
> side will have a lot of cut rock faces - evidently quite boring).
>
> Between Chiplun and Nandgaon generally observe to your left side
(except
> for
> the time you approach Ratnagiri and pass the 5-6 viaducts after
Ratnagiri
> (including the Panval Nadi Viaduct - Viaduct no 3 - the right side
offers
> a
> grand spectacular view of the valley).
>
> From Nandgaon onwards right through, generally the right side is
scenic
> and
> recommended. Not much scenery till Savantwadi. Goa offers specatcular
> coastal scenery on the right. (Apurva - you've been to Goa so may be
you
> can
> add a few of your bits ... )
>
> +++Directions are all headed towards Goa
>
> Regarding the crew, I've not interacted much, but I once met a Mr.
A.S.
> Kumar based in Madgaon, who allowed me to photograph the loco. The
light
> was
> poor so all I got was a dawn shot...
>
>
> So long, Enjoy / Rajan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> To: Rajan Mathew <rajanmathew@telebot.email
> Cc: Vijay Balasubramanian <VBalasubramanian@softrax.email
> <irfca@cs.email
> Sent: Friday, October 22, 1999 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: Needs tips for KR travel
>
>
> > > Don't worry .. you will have to dedicate another trip for all that
...
> "too
> > > much for the railways to show you in one day" Just be positive
about
> what
> > > you're getting below...
> >
> > I love this term - too much of railways in a day. Like you recommend
> facing left
> > between Goa and Kerala, which is the favoured side in the Diva - Goa
> section.
> > How friendly is the crew ? What are the crew changing points for a
train
> like
> > Mandovi Express ? CSTM - Ratnagiri, Ratnagiri - Madgaon ?
> > I wish you would make a railfanning map of the KR based on your
'railway
> > oriented' map making skills, highlighting the points with a small
note -
> forest
> > section, river section, ghat section, viaduct section etc. You could
> even
> split
> > it in small sections like CSTM - Roha on separate sheets. You could
draw
> it by
> > hand and scan it. I remember the excellent hand drawn map of the
> Wankaner -
> > Morbi area with notes in German (on International steam pages ?).
That
> had
> the
> > railfanning and scenic notes written on the map. I wonder if you
have
> seen
> this
> > map ?
> >
> > Apurva
> >
> >
>

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