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From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Longest train ever ran in India

Date: 10 May 1999 09:11:39 -0500


The longest passenger traing on regular duty on IR have 24 coaches.
These
are Karnataka Exp., Prayagraj Exp., Puroshottam Exp., Gomti Exp. and
perhaps
a couple more. Of and on they might be carrying 1-2 additional coaches
like
VIP saloons, specials etc. Iam not aware of any bigger formations.

Excursion specials normally have shorter formations, upto seventeen
coaches
at best.

Harsh


-----Original Message-----
From: Don Mills <dmills@MARSHALL.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Tuesday, May 11, 1999 5:37 AM
Subject: Longest train ever ran in India


>What is the longest train--(passenger, excursion) ran in India?
(number
of
>Coaches, diners etc). In the US we ran a 31 car train excursion on
the
New
>River Train.
>
>
>

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: WAP locos.

Date: 10 May 1999 09:24:00 -0500


>>WAP1 - 3900 hp, largest of all WAP fleets, used all over IR, 130 kmph.
>>max speed, Mark III bogies?


>max speed 130 kmph, Co-Co flexicoil III bogies. Those with Hitachi
Motors
>are called WAP1A.

Visually, there are also two versions of the WAP1 - the first few models
were prototypes, and had different side window arrangements (side window
in
the door).

>>WAP4 - 5000 hp, 140 kmph., Mark IV bogies? where are these being used?


>Passenger version of WAG7. Most of these are based at Jhansi for
>North-South(??!1?) Superfast runs. A few at Baroda, Ghaziabad, Kanpur.

There are also WAP4s in service on the Howrah-Gaya-MGS line, based at
Howrah
or Asansol. These are visually identical to the WAP1 - easiest
distinguishing sign is that their numbers start with three 2s.

>>Iam curious about the necessity of having WAP6s since current speeds
on
>>IR do not exceed 140 kmph. - WAP4s can do the job equally well.

>WAP 6s are WAP 4s only in essense only with mark IV bogies to allow
higher
>speeds. This was CLWs experiment with building a high speed locos. A
loco
>with a maximum speed of 140 does not consistently work at that top
speed.

As Jayant, I believe, reported, several WAP6s had problems and were
moved
from Baroda to Asansol and had their speeds limited. They haul slower
expresses between Mughal Sarai or Asansol and Howrah. WAP6s are
converted
WAP4s - one I saw had the 4 painted over and a 6 hand painted (not
stencilled) over it.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 10 May 1999 10:21:28 -0500


> > 3.Is the modern double decker Maruti car carrier an oddity, or do
the
> > likes of them exist overseas? (esp. in the US).
> The US routinely uses triple-level auto racks.
> >Incidentally, does anyone have any info on India;s last private line
in
> >public service: the Martin;s light Railway, which ceased operation as
> >recently as 1972? It was in Eastern India too.
> I don't know if this is the same line, but there was a
> NG line somewhere around central Bihar (around
> Sahibgunj ?) which I used to notice when travelling
> by the Tinsukia Mail (ugh) until around 1982. It
> seemed to be a private line, going by the heavy
> advertising on the rolling stock.

I have seen a (presumably)single decker Maruti special facing Dombivali
on the Konkan
railway line parallel to the CR's four lines. The rake was converted
passenger coach
rake with welded up doors and windows. The rake had no car manufacturers
markings but
the driver of the Deccan Queen (on whose footplate I was) told me that
the rake
carried Marutis to JNPT at Navha Sheva for export. It was an ideal
scenario, the
setting sun, the speeding Deccan Queen just out of the Parsik tunnel,
the bonhomie of
the drivers on the WCM 1, the Ratlam WDM 2 working the Maruti special
slowly on the
parallel track, the WDM 2 assistant standing on the platform outside the
door on the
shorthood with the green flag out, the WCM 1 and the WDM 2 drivers
waving to each
other ....

If the Katwa Inlampur was operated by the Martin Burns & Co, I remember
that the
Murtajapur Yawatmal route was operated by the Killiks Nixon group whose
other fields
of activities include manufacure of Ovens, Furnaces and Contruction
equipment. Now
track was steam hauled and privately operated till the late 1980s. This
information
can be found in Gammell's book "The relics of the Raj" - which can be
found in the
British Council Library in Pune.

As far as adverstising in and on the rake is concerned, none can beat
the EMU rakes of
Mumbai which is peppered with official and unofficial messages that you
can do
without. There was a phase when the Mumbai Pune commuter trains also
carried ad
panels, maybe they still do.
I wonder if one can discuss the unofficial ads that are found by the
lineside, 'Rishte
hi Rishe' - Dr. Arora (found all over India), Soyo talcum powder,
Starline Computer
academy (found in Mumbai).

Apurva

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 10 May 1999 11:13:06 -0500


Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
> > 3.Is the modern double decker Maruti car carrier an oddity, or do
the
> > likes of them exist overseas? (esp. in the US).
> >
>
> Yes, there are large numbers of such cars in the US.
> We have a car plant nearby, so I see many, many of them.

In the US the 18' high triple deckers are more common than the lower
double-deckers. Actually these are used even on a passenger train to
carry cars - on the Lorton VA - Sanford FL Auto-Train which consists of
Superliner double-decker passenger coaches and a string of triple decker
auto carriers. It is probably the longest Amtrak consist in regular
service. It usually takes three 4200HP GE Genesis locomotives to pull
this train on its non-stop journey from just South of Washington DC to
just North of Orlando FL.

With the recent push for Amtrak trains with a few passenger cars and a
string of Material handling cars and Roadrailers trains like the Three
Rivers are probably getting pretty close in length.

Jishnu.

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 10 May 1999 11:23:36 -0500


Harsh Vardhan wrote:
>
> For example a WP locomotive is perhaps one of the most unique
representation
> of IR even though semi streamlined bullet nosed locomotive haxe
existed
> elsewhere and some will even argue that the WP is an American
locomotive!

I think the real uniqueness of the WP class stems from the fact that
while the first batch was manufactured in the USA, the design is
distinctly different from standard US practice at that time due to the
British and IR influence on it. I am sure Dr. Walker or someone else who
is more upto date on the design details than I am, will be able to give
details on British and Indian influence on the WP design.

The WP class probably also holds the distinction of having been
manufactured in more countries (for IR) than any other peactime
manfuactured locomotive. At last count, I get 5 countries - USA, Canada,
Poland, Czechoslovakia, and India. Interestingly, on South-Eastern
Railway the WPs that pulled Bombay Mail via Nagpur circa late 1950s were
known as "Canadian Engines", and they had this deep throated whistle.

Jishnu.

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 10 May 1999 12:06:44 -0500


Jishnu Mukerji wrote:
>
> Anne Ogborn wrote:
> >
> > > 3.Is the modern double decker Maruti car carrier an oddity, or do
the
> > > likes of them exist overseas? (esp. in the US).
> > >
> >
> > Yes, there are large numbers of such cars in the US.
> > We have a car plant nearby, so I see many, many of them.
>
> In the US the 18' high triple deckers are more common than the lower
> double-deckers. Actually these are used even on a passenger train to
> carry cars - on the Lorton VA - Sanford FL Auto-Train which consists
of
> Superliner double-decker passenger coaches and a string of triple
decker
> auto carriers. It is probably the longest Amtrak consist in regular
> service. It usually takes three 4200HP GE Genesis locomotives to pull
> this train on its non-stop journey from just South of Washington DC to
> just North of Orlando FL.

Auto Train is typically 20-23 Superliners and as many auto racks, which
are both bi level and tri level. It makes for an extremely impressive
train going by at 80 mph...very big, very long and quite fast.

The train stops at Lorton VA as the high cars are prohibited from
passing thru Washington DC Union Station due to height restrictions.

> With the recent push for Amtrak trains with a few passenger cars and a
> string of Material handling cars and Roadrailers trains like the Three
> Rivers are probably getting pretty close in length.

The trains are getting longer indeed. I like it.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

It was a new day yesterday but it's an old day now.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 10 May 1999 12:53:37 -0500



> > In the US the 18' high triple deckers are more common than the lower
> > double-deckers. Actually these are used even on a passenger train to
> > carry cars - on the Lorton VA - Sanford FL Auto-Train which consists
of
> > Superliner double-decker passenger coaches and a string of triple
decker
> > auto carriers. It is probably the longest Amtrak consist in regular
> > service. It usually takes three 4200HP GE Genesis locomotives to
pull
> > this train on its non-stop journey from just South of Washington DC
to
> > just North of Orlando FL.

The train has two service halts at Florence, SC and Richmond, VA.


>
>Auto Train is typically 20-23 Superliners and as many auto racks, which
>are both bi level and tri level. It makes for an extremely impressive
>train going by at 80 mph...very big, very long and quite fast.

The last time I traveled on it during Summer of 94, it had a total of 45

cars - 22 coaches and 23 auto carriers, hauled by two Genesis locos.
Max.
speed - 75 kmph.

Vijay


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Acela web-page

Date: 10 May 1999 13:00:18 -0500


Hi Folks,

Check out the following web-site on Amtrak's high-speed service
-Acela:
www.acela.com

To quote from their press release:

"The first of the 20 new Northeast Corridor high-speed trains has been
manufactured at plants in Barre, Vermont and Plattsburgh, NY by the
consortium of Bombardier ALSTOM and is now being transported to a test
track
in Pueblo, Colorado for extensive testing."

How long will this test track be?

Vijay



_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <A HREF="http://www.msn.com">http://www.msn.com</A>

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 10 May 1999 14:03:17 -0500


Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
> C. L. Zeni wrote:
> > > In the US the 18' high triple deckers are more common than the
lower
> > > double-deckers. Actually these are used even on a passenger train
to
> > > carry cars - on the Lorton VA - Sanford FL Auto-Train which
consists of
> > > Superliner double-decker passenger coaches and a string of triple
decker
> > > auto carriers. It is probably the longest Amtrak consist in
regular
> > > service. It usually takes three 4200HP GE Genesis locomotives to
pull
> > > this train on its non-stop journey from just South of Washington
DC to
> > > just North of Orlando FL.
>
> The train has two service halts at Florence, SC and Richmond, VA.

Those must be for changing engine crews and conductors.

> >Auto Train is typically 20-23 Superliners and as many auto racks,
which
> >are both bi level and tri level. It makes for an extremely
impressive
> >train going by at 80 mph...very big, very long and quite fast.
>
> The last time I traveled on it during Summer of 94, it had a total of
45
> cars - 22 coaches and 23 auto carriers, hauled by two Genesis locos.
Max.
> speed - 75 kmph.

That 75kph can't be right. The Auto Train covers 861 miles in about 16.5
hours which gives it an average speed of around 52mph, i.e. ~83kph, an
average that would be impossible to achieve if the max speed was 75kph.
I suspect the max speed is 79mph (~125kph), which is the FRA mandated
max speed on lines that do not have any automatic train control
mechanism installed. In effect in terms of speed the Auto Train ranks
right up there with the Rajdhanis.

Jishnu.

From: Tony Bailey <>

Subject: Re: Acela web-page

Date: 10 May 1999 14:24:22 -0500




>
>How long will this test track be?
>
>Vijay
>
>

The Pueblo, Colorado, test track includes a very large circle for
continuous
running at speed - and it is electrified. In the last few years one US
magazine did publish an article and. more recently, there is a
photograph
of the Power ,Unit from the Amtrak high sped train after is arrived
there. I
suspect that this was in "Trains" in February or March this year.

Tony Bailey

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Acela web-page

Date: 10 May 1999 14:30:21 -0500


Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Check out the following web-site on Amtrak's high-speed service
-Acela:
> www.acela.com
>
> To quote from their press release:
>
> "The first of the 20 new Northeast Corridor high-speed trains has been
> manufactured at plants in Barre, Vermont and Plattsburgh, NY by the
> consortium of Bombardier ALSTOM and is now being transported to a test
track
> in Pueblo, Colorado for extensive testing."
>
> How long will this test track be?

It's been there since the early 70s at the AAR (American Association of
Railroads) Transportation Technology Center in Pueblo, Colorado. The
main high speed loop is some 13.5 miles in length capable of testing
equipment upto 165mph. This facility was used for testing a certifying
the AEM-7 and similar high speed electric locomotives back then. Since
then it has been used for testing NJTransit commuter EMUs at upto
100mph, and it is now being used for testing the 8000HP (125mph)
electrics from Bombardier/Alstom, and also the semi-articulated Acela
Express (total 12000HP capable of 155mph) trainsets from
Bombardier/Alstom. The latter two are scheduled to enter regular service
on the North East Corridor later this year.

For more details take a look at their web page at:

<A HREF="http://www.aar.com/ttc/testfac/tracks/tt.htm">http://www.aar.com/ttc/testfac/tracks/tt.htm</A>

Jishnu.

From: Roger G. Morris <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 10 May 1999 14:34:17 -0500


In article <37372428.53E7D168@fpk.email Jishnu Mukerji
<jis@fpk.email writes
>
>The WP class probably also holds the distinction of having been
>manufactured in more countries (for IR) than any other peactime
>manfuactured locomotive. At last count, I get 5 countries - USA,
Canada,
>Poland, Czechoslovakia, and India. Interestingly, on South-Eastern
>Railway the WPs that pulled Bombay Mail via Nagpur circa late 1950s
were
>known as "Canadian Engines", and they had this deep throated whistle.
>
>Jishnu.

I don't have my copy of Hughes' book to hand to enable me to check at
the moment but some notes of mine have the WG being built in UK, Italy,
Germany, Austria, Belgium, USA and Japan as well as countless examples
from Chittaranjan.

I also seem to remember that the list for the WP should have Austria
rather than Czechoslovakia - there were some of the YG that were built
by Skoda. (Skoda were responsible for one of the cheaper cars on the
British market in the 'seventies and had all sorts of very
uncomplimentary jokes made about it - even though taken over by VW it is
still regarded as a joke even though the company also builds, among
other things, power stations!)

--
Roger G. Morris

From: S Pai <>

Subject: WP and WG locos

Date: 10 May 1999 18:51:52 -0500



I looked up the manufacturer lists for WP's and WG's in Hugh Hughes'
books.

WP's were made in 5 countries by Chrzanow of Poland, Wiener
Lokomotivfabrik of Vienna, Baldwin, Canadian Loco Co., and of course
Chittaranjan.

WG's were made by North British Loco Co. (Scotland), Anglo-French-
Belge (Belgium?), Henschel, Krupp (both in Germany, I think), Ansaldo
Societe Generale (sp?) of Italy, Wiener Lokomotivfabrik of Vienna,
Chittaranjan of course, and surprisingly, also by Hitachi of Japan.
The early WP locos have a different boiler design from the later
ones made at CLW. Also (this is the first time I learned about this),
some WG's were modified to take fuel oil in addition to coal to increase
the power on grades when the coal was of an inferior quality.

--Satish

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 10 May 1999 19:23:49 -0500


>
> The WP class probably also holds the distinction of having been
> manufactured in more countries (for IR) than any other peactime
> manfuactured locomotive. At last count, I get 5 countries - USA,
Canada,
> Poland, Czechoslovakia, and India. Interestingly, on South-Eastern
> Railway the WPs that pulled Bombay Mail via Nagpur circa late 1950s
were
> known as "Canadian Engines", and they had this deep throated whistle.


Don't forget Austria. And even on WR they were known as Canadian Locos.
Its was because of their bullet shaped bulbous nose for which they were
called "Pregnant Ladies" by the Bulsar shed crew.

Viraf
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos

Date: 10 May 1999 20:23:19 -0500


S Pai wrote:
> WG's were made by North British Loco Co. (Scotland), Anglo-French-
> Belge (Belgium?), Henschel, Krupp (both in Germany, I think), Ansaldo
> Societe Generale (sp?) of Italy, Wiener Lokomotivfabrik of Vienna,
> Chittaranjan of course, and surprisingly, also by Hitachi of Japan.
There is a beautiful WG model at the NRM: made
by Hitachi, I thnk ? The rods and valve gear work.
> The early WP locos have a different boiler design from the later
> ones made at CLW. Also (this is the first time I learned about this),
> some WG's were modified to take fuel oil in addition to coal to
increase
> the power on grades when the coal was of an inferior quality.
Interesting. I also remember the WGx variant on the
SER which had automatic couplers for coal trains.

Are there any WGs is preservation ? NRM has a WP and
a WL; it would be a shame if all the WGs were scrapped
considering their significance on IR. The last BG
steam loco made at CLW was "Antim Sitara", a WG.

--
JS
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 10 May 1999 20:33:28 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> I have seen a (presumably)single decker Maruti special.....
Reminds me: on IR I sometimes see something called a
"Motor and Parcel Van", built in a passenger coach
shell, with large end doors for loading vehicles.
Are these for individually booked vehicles ? It does
seem somewhat odd to have a dual-purpose vehicle.....


--
JS
--

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos

Date: 10 May 1999 23:01:44 -0500



>Are there any WGs is preservation ? NRM has a WP and
>a WL; it would be a shame if all the WGs were scrapped
>considering their significance on IR. The last BG
>steam loco made at CLW was "Antim Sitara", a WG.
>


Yes, a few of them have survived indeed. Although the only one to reach
a
display pedestal so far is WG 10253 at former steam loco shed, Bhusaval.
Quite deservedly
as BSL was the largest steam loco shed in the country holding over 150
locos
consisting of over 100 WGs.

Bhusaval also boasts of a WP 7000, a B/1 766 and B/1 768.

Harsh

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos

Date: 11 May 1999 01:26:27 -0500


> Yes, a few of them have survived indeed. Although the only one to
reach a
> display pedestal so far is WG 10253 at former steam loco shed,
Bhusaval.
> Quite deservedly
> as BSL was the largest steam loco shed in the country holding over 150
locos
> consisting of over 100 WGs.
>
> Bhusaval also boasts of a WP 7000, a B/1 766 and B/1 768.

Does that mean 3 WPs (or variants) and a WG 10253 at Bhusawal ?In that
case BSL
is the only place in India with more than one BG plinthed loco apart
from the
NRM.How many other BG locos are plinthed in India leaving the NRM and
the Nehru
Science centre in Mumbai ? I cannot think of any !

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU

Date: 11 May 1999 01:53:25 -0500


I take the assistance of the gang to explain to dear Don why
Indian Railways has a separate Ladies coach on every train.
It is nothing like Hindu or Muslim but a question of the
women's security. If women travel together they are less
likely to be faced with any crimes against them. I wonder if
Don has ever heard of the terms 'outraging one's modesty' ? So
if there are no men around it is easier for women to preserve
their modesty. Please note that women can travel in any coach
they wish or one in which they have a reservation but men
cannot travel in the 'ladies only coach'. However children
under 12 of either sex can travel in the ladies compartment,
which is unreserved.
Gang please contribute.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 11 May 1999 01:58:44 -0500


The motor and parcel van has 'bow doors' (my term) to allow cars
and other vehicles to be loaded via a ramp. I am not too sure
what the term 'parcel' stands for. All the odd containers of
varied stuff (two wheelers, truck axles, crates of fluorescent
lamps, crates of govt. manufactured condoms (!), machinery spares
etc) that you see at the Mumbai end of Platform 1 on Pune Jn. are
actually carried in the SLR (luggage, brake and ladies) carriage
found in the end of a passenger train.
The Maruti special I saw was a converted passenger rake with
welded up door and window opening and with 'bow doors'.
I have a picture of the motor and parcel van in a half finished
webpage (Beasts at Pune Jn) which would be up in a while.

Apurva

Jayant S wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > I have seen a (presumably)single decker Maruti special.....
> Reminds me: on IR I sometimes see something called a
> "Motor and Parcel Van", built in a passenger coach
> shell, with large end doors for loading vehicles.
> Are these for individually booked vehicles ? It does
> seem somewhat odd to have a dual-purpose vehicle.....
>
> --
> JS
> --

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