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From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos

Date: 11 May 1999 05:34:16 -0500



>WP's were made in 5 countries by Chrzanow of Poland, Wiener
>Lokomotivfabrik of Vienna, Baldwin, Canadian Loco Co., and of course
>Chittaranjan.

120 WPs were also built by Montreal loco works, Canada.

>WG's were made by North British Loco Co. (Scotland),

10 locos were sub-contracted by North British to Vulcan
Foundary(Newton-le-Willows, England) and built by them.

>Anglo-French-
>Belge (Belgium?),


AFB is just a Consortium. These 82 locos were ordered from Societe
Franco
Belge de Material de Chemins de Fer, Raismes of which 63 were
sub-contracted
to and built by Henschel.


>Henschel, Krupp (both in Germany, I think), Ansaldo
>Societe Generale (sp?) of Italy,

Geneva, Swiss.

>The early WP locos have a different boiler design from the later
>ones made at CLW.

The prototype WPs which came from Baldwin were known as WP/P and they
appear
`a little less pregnant' than the later lot which were simply WP. WPs
built
by CLW after 1965 with the modified boiler design as you mentioned were
called WP/1.

>Also (this is the first time I learned about this),
>some WG's were modified to take fuel oil in addition to coal to
increase
>the power on grades when the coal was of an inferior quality.

This was no auxilliary fuel nor were any burners fitted. The oil was
used to
be sprayed in the furnace before the boiler was lit in order to
accelerate
combustion of lower grade coals.

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos

Date: 11 May 1999 06:31:43 -0500



>> Bhusaval also boasts of a WP 7000, a B/1 766 and B/1 768.
>
>Does that mean 3 WPs (or variants) and a WG 10253 at Bhusawal ?In that
case
BSL
>is the only place in India with more than one BG plinthed loco apart
from
the
>NRM.

No, no. You got it wrong. B/1 is a NG(2'6") class of loco which were in
use
at Murtazapur-Yawatmal and Barsi Light Rly.

How many other BG locos are plinthed in India leaving the NRM and the
Nehru
>Science centre in Mumbai ? I cannot think of any !
>

Plinthed for public?!? Not really but there are a few examples I can
think
of. Sonepur(WP), Jhansi(WP), DLW(WDS1).

Harsh

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 11 May 1999 08:41:08 -0500


Roger G. Morris wrote:
>
> In article <37372428.53E7D168@fpk.email Jishnu Mukerji
> <jis@fpk.email writes
> >
> >The WP class probably also holds the distinction of having been
> >manufactured in more countries (for IR) than any other peactime
> >manfuactured locomotive. At last count, I get 5 countries - USA,
Canada,
> >Poland, Czechoslovakia, and India. Interestingly, on South-Eastern
> >Railway the WPs that pulled Bombay Mail via Nagpur circa late 1950s
were
> >known as "Canadian Engines", and they had this deep throated whistle.
> >
> >Jishnu.
>
> I don't have my copy of Hughes' book to hand to enable me to check at
> the moment but some notes of mine have the WG being built in UK,
Italy,
> Germany, Austria, Belgium, USA and Japan as well as countless examples
> from Chittaranjan.

You're right, it is Austria, not Czechoslovakia. I was just typing from
my memory, which is admittedly a little rusty.

Jishnu.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos

Date: 11 May 1999 12:06:37 -0500


Hello,
I think the following bg engines have been plinthed elsewhere in India:
1. Garratt at the Kharagpur workshops and
2. Fairy Queen's sister engine "Express" (which incidentally worked the
first train in Eastern India) at the Jamalpur Workshop.
Of course, these are not open to the public. I can't thinkof any other
bg engines preserved elsewhere.
Anyone? Harsh?
We might have some more in the near future, with plans on for opening
more museums in Madras and Varanasi.
Best regards/
Shankar



Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > Yes, a few of them have survived indeed. Although the only one to
reach a
> > display pedestal so far is WG 10253 at former steam loco shed,
Bhusaval.
> > Quite deservedly
> > as BSL was the largest steam loco shed in the country holding over
150 locos
> > consisting of over 100 WGs.
> >
> > Bhusaval also boasts of a WP 7000, a B/1 766 and B/1 768.
>
> Does that mean 3 WPs (or variants) and a WG 10253 at Bhusawal ?In that
case BSL
> is the only place in India with more than one BG plinthed loco apart
from the
> NRM.How many other BG locos are plinthed in India leaving the NRM and
the Nehru
> Science centre in Mumbai ? I cannot think of any !
>
> Apurva

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: codes for Indian rail

Date: 11 May 1999 12:07:01 -0500


Hello,
I have compiled a comprehensive (but by no means exhaustive) list of
station and shed codes on the IR.
Its a bit too long for comfort, though, and I do not want my colleagues
at the irfca giving me the boot for blocking their disk space.
Either I can painstakingly re-type it in parts to your e-mail address,
or better still, I can snail-mail it to your address, which appears at
the end of your mail.
I do not have access to a scanner, unfortunately.
Do let me know what you prefer.
Best regards.
Shankar


Mike Brooker wrote:
>
> >
> >My guess is that GZB shed gets the latest locos so that they can be
> thrashed
> >on the high speed trunks towards HWH via MGS and towards BRC.
> >However like Anand mentions the new WDP 2 is going to be homed at
GOC, the
> >latest WDG 4 will be homed at UBL (Hubli !) and the stud freight
powers WAG
> >6 etc are actually homed at VSKP for the Waltair Kirandul line. Also
the
> ASN
> >shed homes a number of WAG 9s. What about the WAP powers from BRC ?
>
> Namaskar. Could someone please send me a listing of the 3 or 4-letter
codes
> for Indian Railways stations? Or a link to a website where such a
listing
> is available. A few I can guess at with some certainty -- HWH =
Howrah, and
> I know a few from my travels in India (e.g. NDLS=New Delhi). But
without a
> list, the above paragraph doesn't make much sense to someone like me
who
> lives in Canada and has never been an employee of IR. It would be
nice to
> have a list that I can keep close to my computer for reference.
>
> ********************************************************************
> Mike Brooker
> 99 Wychcrest Ave.,
> Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
> CANADA
> (416) 536-7406
> ********************************************************************

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Delhi Metro and DMU news

Date: 11 May 1999 12:07:27 -0500


Hello,
On a lighter vein, we might have some railway babus on our list if only
internet files could be bound with miles and miles of red tape, or could
be pushed round endlessly from computer terminal to computer terminal!
Plus, the jurisdiction problem will need to be sorted out: thats not
within the jurisdiction of my terminal, you'll have to access so and
so's terminal: thats in his area.Internet is universal, you see!
OK OK, so I;m a super railnut too, it was just a joke, so no need to
accuse me of blasphemy!
Best regards.
Shankar



Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Sunil Bajpai wrote:
>
> > Hi folks!
> >
> > It is interesting that IR's policy too comes in for scrutiny and
debate
> > here. All very natural and appropriate for such a mailing list.
> >
> > But, gentlemen (and ladies too, if we have them on board) do we
have:
> >
> > . A mechanism to develop recommendations?
>
> Actually we do have a mechanism for recommendation now - the email
addresses on the
> Indian Railway website - to members of the technical and commercial
committees. What
> we are discussing must have been debated over and over with the
railways themselves.
> But then if we do not have a mechanism for being heard, do we not
discuss an issue at
> all ? I think by discussing the facts on the IRFCA we try and fill up
the holes that
> exist within a judgement of the railways.
> Getting a sympathetic person from the railways on the forum will be
greatly welcome,
> they are a source of great wisdom, experience and expertise, but on
the other hand if
> a rule book wielding official comes along ... many of the things we
discuss are fit
> only to be discussed in a company of cosy friends.
> I think part of the problem is lack of internet access to the IR
officials. The
> internet is the only way to run this forum. In a few years this
situation will improve
> and many of them may actually be on our list.
>
> Apurva

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 12:07:49 -0500


Hello,
I'll second that. I have been reading of this proposal since 1979.And I
have come across scores of reasons for the project not having taken off
so far. The reasons ranged from:
1.Our none too friendly and trustworthy neighbor.
2.Gauge problems: bg in India and Pak, mg in Bangladesh (OK, so Bangla
has some bg too), mg or 3'6" in Burma (Myanmar), standard gauge in Iran
and onwards upto Europe
3. Saudi Arabia's reluctance to resurrect the Lawrence of Arabia's
railway, which is now largely abandoned.
4. Security considerations
5. Viability: whether to make it freight only, if so who will use it, or
passenger only, or both.
Don't look at me like that. I'm just stating what all I've read over the
years in various sources.
But practically speaking, when all we could do in the past three decades
is to open a small entry into Pak, while still struggling with opening
links into Bangla and Nepal (the Raxaul-Jogbani link is long defunct),a
railway into Europe is indeed a far cry.
Ideally, we should have trains running freely at least aongst the SAARC
nations.(wherever there is no sea in between, except probably Sri
Lanka). But then the others, esp. our friendly neighbor will start on
about India, the big bully, twisting the arms of her weak neighbors and
trying to be a regional superpower, dominating or overshadowing the
weak neighboring countries etc.
I say again, lets hope and pray the idea will take off this time at
least.As I can understand it, the country most strongly in favor of this
project is India herself.
Best regards.
Shankar


SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> Great News: Times of India, Mumbai. dt: April, 27 1999
>
> India to board the Train to Europe:
> ----------------------------------
> The Indian Railways have agreed to participate in the Trans-Asian
Railway
> link between Europe & South -East Asia, via
Iran,Pakistan,India,Bangladesh,
> Myanmar,Thailand & Malaysia.
>
> This Trans Asian Railway project is being considered by United Nations
> Economics & Social Commission for Asia & the Pacific ( ESCAP ) under
the
> Asian Land Infrastructure development project.
>
> The main objective of this project is to identify & evaluate the
> development & operation of a network of routes between South Asia &
> Europe, south China & Europe , Thailand & Europe.
>
> These routes are supposed to run thru Bangladesh, Myanmar, India,
> Pakistan, Iran & Turkey.
>
> -----------------------------------
> Hope this project comes to reality as early as possible. And may some
of
> us can really travel on this route.
>
> Bye,
>
> Shrinivas

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: DMRC Website

Date: 11 May 1999 12:07:55 -0500


Hello,
Well, well well. I could have killed myself of shame.
I must have been dreaming all along!.
The proposed New Delhi MRTS has been so predominant of late, especially
with the killer instinct of Delhi's notorious red line (now blue line)
(or killer line) buses that thats what has been foremost in my mind.
I realise only now that Delhi is to have a METRO? You mean that
underground type, that type where the trains go under the surface of the
ground for short stretches, and all stations are in tunnels?
Well, well, well!
On a more serious note, when the civil works commenced on teh Calcutta
metro, press announcements were made of similar metro underground
networks in (among other cities) Delhi, Bombay, Madras, Ahmedabad and
Kanpur. (I'm not too sure about Poona and Hyderabad).
But the bitter experience with the construction of the Cal metro made
sure that all other metro plans were quickly buried deep deep down where
they can never be found again: remember all those traffic
snarls,dangerously deep trenches over more than half the road width with
the hopelessly clogged traffic getting further choked, relaying and
realigning drainage lines and tram tracks, social ills with
drunkenness,brawls and prostitution rampant among the construcion gangs
which more often than not used to spill out onto the roads, and all this
digging and clogging and inconvenience surfacing on a new road every
day, and simply going on and on for DECADES on end!
Indeed, the Cal metro was virtually dug by hand, and built by hand.Or so
it seemed!
Not to mention the flooding soon after teh metro started.

Now the Delhi metro.Only proves that the experiences on teh Cal metro
have taught the IR pundits up in Rail Bhavan a thing or two, and have
emboldened them to dig deep into the underground vaults to blow the
cobwebs and dust off the other metro schemes.
NOt to mention the technological improvements which have accrued in the
meantime which make the IR techno pundits confident enough to undertake
another such odyssey in another megapolis.THis time, in the showpiece of
India to the rest of the world.
Bravo IR. We are proud of you, and are proud of our irfca fraternity!
Best regards.
Shankar



Jayant S wrote:
>
> <A HREF="http://www.delhimetrorail.com/">http://www.delhimetrorail.com/</A>
> This is the DMRC website. I've just begun
> going through it.
>
> This website says, though, that the proposed
> track gauge is 1676 mm. Think they've
> got it straight after all ?
>
> -Jayant S-

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 11 May 1999 12:08:00 -0500


>
> > 6.The wooden foot overbridge at Madras Egmore must also be one of a
> > kind.
>
> Hello,
Actually, there is a letter in the Tamil language 'a rolling 'rhha'
sound. I do not think this letter exists in any other language, except
probably Malayalam.
Due to the complicated nature of this word (marhhhai for rain), the
letter is replaced by 'zh' or simply 'l', while tranliterating it into
English.
Egmore is tamil is Erhhhumbur.
It need to be transliterated as Elumbur or Ezhumbur, Rather, while the
locals still refer to it as Erhhumbur, better sense prevails, and most
others call it Egmore.
On another note, thank goodness for the complicated rolling rhhh sound,
or we will have another local idiot in Madras (oops Chennai) like Bal
Thakeray in Bombay (Mumbai) enforcing that name upon us!
Imagine a Chennai Erhhumbur-Tiruvananthapuram Mail, instead of good old
Madras Egmore-Trivandrum Mail.
For those who disapprove,forgive us our blasphemous tresspasses!
Shankar

(PS: I do not know about Shoranur, though Alleppey is now called
Alapuzha (another rhha sound: Alapurhha) and Calicut has become
Kozhikode.(yet another rhha sound:Korhhaikode). Cochin has also become
Kochi, Ithink)
Can the gang in Chennai confirm that Egmore is actually pronounced as
> 'Eshmore' in Tamil ? I have a old SR tt in Hindi which seems to
suggest this
> pronunciation. Also Shoranur = 'Shronur' ?
>
> >

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: ED powers for the KK

Date: 11 May 1999 12:08:14 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> >
> > I travelled by the Karnataka from Delhi to Daund (whence I had to
change
> > trains for Poona) in Nov. 1997.
> > The train left Delhi behind electric power.
>
> Which electric power ?
> COULDN'T SEE, SADLY. THERE WERE ONLY 15 MINS LEFT FOR THE TRAIN TO
DEPART,I WAS HUNTING FOR AN AIR PILLOW,AS MINE HAD SPRUNG A LEAK, AND I
WAS TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE TRAIN. IT DEPARTS AT 2130 OR SO,AND IT WAS
DARK
> > Twin WDM/2s took over somewhere at Itarsi, I think, and when I
detrained
> > at Daund, the train was still diesel hauled. I was givento
understand
> > the diesels contiue all the way till Bangalore.
>

> How else would the train travel on an unelectrified line ?
TRUE. HOW STUPID OF ME!
BEST REGARDS.
SHANKAR

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 11 May 1999 12:09:45 -0500


Hello,
At last, the kind of response I was really looking out for. Thanks for
your invaluable views, Dr.Walker. COnstructive critcism is always
welcome and required.
I must admit that a major portion of your message wasnews to me. To all
of us, I must say. How ill informed most of us are about the historical
aspects of our great railway.
To put things in the right perspective, we should probably rename the
series as "Rarities' instead of 'Oddities". For what we'd perceived as
oddities are in realitiy not so odd after all.
Anyway the series has abruptly come to a halt after that.
Not to be outdone,rarities or oddities,call them what you will, but here
are three more I could think of:
1. There are various types of tank engines: Saddle tank(ST),(eg.
Decauville), well tank(WT) eg. Fairy Queen), side tank(T) (eg.XT, WT,etc
etc) and pannier tank(PT),
but the Darjeeling Himalayan 'B' class engines are a unique combo of
tank types. The engines are 0-4-0 SWT (Saddle and Well Tank).
Very few engines in the world combine two or more types of tanks withing
their single frame.
2.With computerization, this is now athing of the past, but the 'paper
ticket' of not so long ago is certainly an oddity/rarity. A situation
where a trainconductor sits in front ofyou and painstakingly fills out a
ticket in a duplicate book he carries in his pocket is an experience of
a different kind.
3.While worldwide, screw couplers OR buck eye couplers (CBC coupling)
are in use, our Indian locos CBC (buck-eye couplers) fitted with an
adapter for screw coupler compatibility is definitely worthy of mention
as an oddity/rarity.
BEst regards.
Shankar

Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
>
> Hi everyone, especially Shankar and Harsh,
> I think we do need to distinguish between genuine oddities and
things
> that are simply survivals of older practices, or common elsewhere in
the
> world.
> Wooden brake blocks, for example, were common on all railways in
the
> early days. The round hatch on the end of the O&R van at the NRM in
Delhi
> seems, from drawings in my possession, to have been a common fitting
on
> Indian State Railways vans in the 1880s. I suspect it was for the
purpose of
> sampling grains, etc. It was probably suppressed due to the ease of
> pilfering!
> Rack lines are common in mountain areas. What makes the Nilgiri
line
> so special is that it is unique in India and has such superb scenery.
> Fireless locos are also common; they are still used where sparks (even
from
> diesels) might cause fires: industrial plants using solvents, and oil
> refineries, are typical.
> Steam rail motors using an integrated engine enjoyed a brief
> popularity in Britain around 1905, and dozens were built. To my
knowledge
> four Indian railways (EIR, NWR, GIP, M&SM) built broad-gauge ones,
while
> Gwalior had a magnificant two-foot gauge example. Home-made diesel or
petrol
> railcars were very common on the various component railways of the
> Saurashtra system (Morvi, Junagarh, etc) from the late 1920s through
to the
> late 1940s; in addition some Bengal narrow-gauge lines had various
ones. The
> Drewry company (Motor Rail) supplied a trickle of such cars to various
> Indian lines during the 1920s-1940s; the KSR motors are only the
best-known.
> The MAWD (metre gauge) 2-8-2s from USA and Canada were
supplied to
> numerous MG and 3ft 6in gauge systems during WWII, and the majority
were
> shipped with the headlamp in the middle of the smokebox door, the
> configuration Harsh likes. Some went to Queensland, many to Burma and
> Thailand, and quite a few other locations. The SG/BG "Middle East" and
S160
> designs (IR AWD/CWD and AWC) were even more widely distributed. The MG
> engines in Thailand, incidentally, were called "Macarthurs".
> Multi-level vans for animals are not at all uncommon. Australia
has
> double-deck sheep trucks, and so did the Great North of SAcotland
Railway.
> However, I dicovered a real oddity in the (Indian) SR diagram books a
couple
> of years ago: a six-level MG DUCK van, peppered with breathing holes,
though
> it was otherwise a standard MG van!
> Multi-deck car carriers are also quite common. In the USA, a
very
> large proportion of the new car traffic has been captured since the
> introduction of three-deck 85ft transporters which are entirely
protected by
> mesh, thus poreventing damge in transit from vandalism or stray
stones, etc.
> On the other hand, I was delighted to get tea in a clay cup
on a
> recent trip from Ahmedabad to Delhi; a joy I'd missed in recent years.
> Let's keep the oddities coming, and maybe sort them a bit
as we
> go?
> Cheers
> Ken Walker
>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU]

Date: 11 May 1999 12:47:47 -0500


Enforcement of "no gents allowed" in the ladies compartment
is quite lax. It seems every ladies compartment has at least
one man in it.

Even so, they are usually outnumbered and less likely to
start some monkey business. But I have seen it happen.
I was riding the EMU in Calcutta and a young man was
there. The conversation was in Bengali, so I don't know
fully what happened, but he started some mischeif
and the women around him first moved away, then scolded him.
Apparently he had touched one of the women.

I've never seen this from the vendors. I think they know
they'll be endangering their livelyhood.

Annie

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 15:08:13 -0500


Shankar wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I'll second that. I have been reading of this proposal since 1979.And
I
> have come across scores of reasons for the project not having taken
off
> so far. The reasons ranged from:
> 1.Our none too friendly and trustworthy neighbor.
> 2.Gauge problems: bg in India and Pak, mg in Bangladesh (OK, so Bangla
> has some bg too), mg or 3'6" in Burma (Myanmar), standard gauge in
Iran
> and onwards upto Europe.

Add to that, no existing connection between Bangladesh and Burma, and
Burma and Thailand, both of which will require construction through some
rather difficult terrain.

Should be a great opportunity to deploy those quick gauge changing Talgo
sets that are used between Paris and Madrid.

> 3. Saudi Arabia's reluctance to resurrect the Lawrence of Arabia's
> railway, which is now largely abandoned.

Why is this relevent? That route does not come anywhere near the India
to Europe link.

> 4. Security considerations
> 5. Viability: whether to make it freight only, if so who will use it,
or
> passenger only, or both.

Very little justification to make it passenger only. Unless freight is
carried it is an idea that is more or less DOA. Who's going to pay for
its upkeep, even if someone comes up with the money to build it. With
freight, specially multi deck container capability makes for a great
land bridge. In the US, enormous amount of Container traffic is carried
by rail between Atlantic and Pacific ports, essentially transhipping
them from one container ship to another. This is much faster than
trying to send it all through the Panama Canal.

>
> SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > Great News: Times of India, Mumbai. dt: April, 27 1999
> >
> > India to board the Train to Europe:
> > ----------------------------------
> > The Indian Railways have agreed to participate in the Trans-Asian
Railway
> > link between Europe & South -East Asia, via
Iran,Pakistan,India,Bangladesh,
> > Myanmar,Thailand & Malaysia.
> >
> > This Trans Asian Railway project is being considered by United
Nations
> > Economics & Social Commission for Asia & the Pacific ( ESCAP ) under
the
> > Asian Land Infrastructure development project.
> >
> > The main objective of this project is to identify & evaluate the
> > development & operation of a network of routes between South Asia &
> > Europe, south China & Europe , Thailand & Europe.

You can actually travel pretty much on Standard Gauge + Russian Broad
Gauge all the way from South China to Europe via two or three different
routes all of which eventually travel through CIS.

> > These routes are supposed to run thru Bangladesh, Myanmar, India,
> > Pakistan, Iran & Turkey.
> >

Jishnu.

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 15:41:24 -0500


If the Singapore-Europe freight rail link is primarily for freight,
which
seems likely, it would be a good idea even without a continuous
single-gauge
link. The idea would be to maximize the amount of travel done by rail.
It
would be a lot more efficient and economical to send goods 90% by rail,
with
inter-gauge transfers and maybe even roads bridging gaps, than it would
be
by other means.

The bulk of the work appears to be through Myanmar/Burma, and since the
political climate is probably the worst among all the countries
involved,
that could be a stumbling block.

Interestingly, the Talgo sets are also in operation here in the US
Northwest, running between Portland and Vancouver, BC. I'm going to have
to
check them out sometime soon!

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 11 May 1999 18:18:50 -0500


Has anybody seen a motor car in a motor and parcel van? I have not,
although
I have seen other vehicles, mostly bicycles, motor cycles and scooters.
Why
is called a motor and parcel van? Did it ever have it own motive power
or
did it have generators of some sort in olden days?

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 18:44:39 -0500



I'll inject a note of pessimism here...

> If the Singapore-Europe freight rail link is primarily for freight,
> which seems likely, it would be a good idea even without a
> continuous single-gauge link. The idea would be to maximize the
> amount of travel done by rail. It would be a lot more efficient and
> economical to send goods 90% by rail, with inter-gauge transfers and
> maybe even roads bridging gaps, than it would be by other means.

*If* the transshipment is really efficient. In India, one of the
motivations for Project Unigauge was the enormous delays and problems
experienced at goods transshipment points when switching between MG
and BG. Many manufacturers would rather send their goods by road
carriers than suffer through IR's gauge transfers. I'm not sure that
the other railways in the region are much better than IR in this
respect, and multiple gauge changes will really hurt the throughput.
In contrast, you'll have the competition (east Asian shipping
companies) touting their established competence and reliability. And
it's not just gauge transfers -- manufacturers often complain about
cargo being simply "lost" or untraceable somewhere in IR's huge system
or delayed indefinitely, and that's a big part of why road freight is
so popular *despite* the enormous problems with road traffic
infrastructure in India. So there'd be a credibility problem to
overcome in the first place, which would make raising money for the
project harder (or more expensive).

I agree with the basic idea that the land rail route can be more
efficient, but the problems will be in the implementation and
demonstration of service. I think the management obstacles (multiple
jurisdictions and non-friendly neighbours) will also be a killer.
As they say, the devil is in the details. I wish this route would
become a reality, but I don't see it happening very soon.

By the way, is there a strong political commitment to this in any
of the countries at a high enough level? If I recall correctly, it's
usually some junior minister expansively speculating about such a
route at some feel-good conference. Quite frankly, I don't know if
the various UN bodies that have been talking about this count for
anything when it comes to really doing something rather than producing
white papers and reports.

From India's point of view, there are more significant international
projects like this that have been planned but may never see the light
of day because of political problems: oil pipeline from west Asia, gas
pipeline from Iran and Central Asia, electricity import from Pakistan.
I'd think that the benefits from a Europe-Singapore link being much
less immediate and more diffuse, it would be treated with even lower
priority in practice by any government in India.

--Satish

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 19:21:07 -0500


>
> Interestingly, the Talgo sets are also in operation here in the US
> Northwest, running between Portland and Vancouver, BC. I'm going to
have to
> check them out sometime soon!
>
Is there a change in gauge? My sister lives in Vancouver and is of no
help
in railway matters.

Viraf


==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 20:14:00 -0500


VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
>
> >
> > Interestingly, the Talgo sets are also in operation here in the US
> > Northwest, running between Portland and Vancouver, BC. I'm going to
have to
> > check them out sometime soon!
> >
> Is there a change in gauge? My sister lives in Vancouver and is of no
help
> in railway matters.
>
> Viraf


No gauge change. Canada is std gage.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Train to Europe!!

Date: 11 May 1999 20:14:00 -0500


VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
>
> >
> > Interestingly, the Talgo sets are also in operation here in the US
> > Northwest, running between Portland and Vancouver, BC. I'm going to
have to
> > check them out sometime soon!
> >
> Is there a change in gauge? My sister lives in Vancouver and is of no
help
> in railway matters.
>
> Viraf


No gauge change. Canada is std gage.

From: Mike Brooker <>

Subject: Re: WP and WG locos; Montreal Loco Works

Date: 11 May 1999 20:25:17 -0500




>
>>WP's were made in 5 countries by Chrzanow of Poland, Wiener
>>Lokomotivfabrik of Vienna, Baldwin, Canadian Loco Co., and of course
>>Chittaranjan.
>
>120 WPs were also built by Montreal loco works, Canada.
>
The Canadian-built locos in use on IR were built before independence,
no?
(India's, that is; the Canadian equivalent to the Aug. 15, 1947 tryst
with
destiny is July 1, 1867)

Montreal Locomotive Works also built some of the cars of Toronto's
subway
(metro) fleet. The Montreal Locomotive Works vehicles were built in
1962
and are the oldest vehicles still in use in the Toronto Transit
Commission
subway system.

********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************

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