IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 121 - 140

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@cs.email

Subject: Re: Kumar Apte's mail

Date: 27 Oct 1989 17:08:00 -0500

Kumar Apte writes:
>What I would like to see is a change in the thinking of IR. For
>example, consider the Bombay-Nagpur section. We could have trains
>which travel for a short distance ( Igatpuri-Manmad, Manmad-Bhusaval,
>Bhusaval-Akola, Akola-Nagpur) which are frequent (1 per hour,
>2 per hour during peaks), less frequent but longer distance trains
>(Igatpuri-Bhusaval,Bhusaval-Nagpur,Bombay-Nagpur). All these trains
>will stop at the stations at which the express trains such as
>Dadar-Amritsar normally stop. These will take care of short
>distance passengers. The long distance trains such as Geetanjali
>will stop only at major stations, Bhusaval and Nagpur. Thus,
>if someone from,say, Akola wants to go to Calcutta, he/she will
>take a train (which has high frequency) to Nagpur and catch the
>Geetanjali Exp. there. Schedules could be arranged such that
>convenient connections are available at Bhusaval and Nagpur
>for all the long distance trains.

At last, somebody has come up with same opinion as that of mine.
Last time, I voiced such a scheme, I was shredded to pieces by
Vijay. The main problem was that the connections are unreliable.
Would you keep a superfast train waiting for an express train
or even a passenger, which is late? And if you have to reach
the next major stations very early, it wastes so much more time.

-dheeraj

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: rail magazine etc.

Date: 27 Oct 1989 14:36:00 -0500

Hi,

Dheeraj asks if there is a railway magazine in India. I used to read
a monthly magazine which used to be subscribed to by the IITD library.
It was published by the Railway Board/Ministry and was called "Railways"
(I think). It is likely that this is still being published. It had
information and updates on things like track construction, track
conversion, proposed new lines, electrification, rolling stock info,
export info and occasionally used to carry info about proposed new
trains and articles of general interest. For example one issue had a
detailed description of the Kottavalasa-Kirandul line complete with
pictures and was a delight to read. Also one of the issues had a six
page article on the Grand Trunk Express (much to my delight) tracing
the origin of the train and its history. The author was fascinated by
by its name when he was a young boy in Nagpur and used to watch the
GT go past his house everyday.Vijay may be able to find out more
when he visits India. Unfortunately the magazine also had its share of
political hype (articles describing the railway minister's participation
in surprise ticket checks and the like). But one has to take the good
with the bad.

To further bore you folks here are my creations which are SE Rly based:

10) Sambalpur - Cuttack/Puri "Hirakud" Express:
Purpose: To link interior Orissa with the coast.
Classification: Moderately fast day train.
Classes: 1 & 2; 1.5 coaches 1 class, 3.5 coaches 2 class reserved,
rest unreserved.
Speed and Duration: max 90-100 kph, dep S'pur 7:30 am, arr Puri 8:30
pm, arr Cuttack 9:30 pm. dep Cuttack 7:00 am, dep Puri 8:00 am, arr
Sambalpur 9:00 pm.Daily.
Rake description: 16 coaches; 10 for Cuttack, 6 for Puri; regular
color; diesel/steamhauled.Train splits at Khurda Road.
Halts: Bolangir, Titlagarh, Koraput, Rayagada, Parvatipuram, Bobbili
, Vizianagaram, Srikakulam Rd, Palasa, Ichchapuram, Berhampur
, Chatrapur, Khurda Road, (Sukhi Gopal, Puri), Bhubhaneswar.

11) Haldia - Visakhapatnam Express:
Purpose: To provide a moderately fast day time train for coastal
Orissa and North coastal A.P. for short and medium distance passrs.
Should enable the speeding up of the Hwh-Hyderabad East Coast
Express for the benefit of long distance passrs.
Classification: Moderately fast train.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 completely unreserved.
Speed and duration: max 90-100 kph, dep Haldia 5:00 am, arr Vizag
8:00 pm. dep Vizag 8:00 am, arr Haldia 11:00 pm. Daily.
Rake description: 16 coaches; Electric & Diesel hauled; regular
color.
Halts: Panskura, Kharagpur, Balasore, Bhadrak, Jajpur-Keonjhar Rd,
Baitarani Rd, Nergundi, Cuttack, Barang, Bhubaneswar,
Khurda Rd, Jaleswar, Chilka, Ganjam, Chatrapur, Berhampur,
Ichchapuram, Palasa, Sompeta, Srikakulam Rd, Vizianagaram,
Kottavalasa, Simhachalam.

12) Jabalpur-Jagdalpur "Bastar" Express:
Purpose: Links S.E. Madhya Pradesh with Jabalpur. Link to Bhopal
and Indore provided on the Jabalpur-Bhopal-Indore "Madhya Bharat"
super express (to be described later).
Classification: Moderately fast; slow on mountainous stretches.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 first class coaches, 2 2-tier and 4 3-tier
coaches, rest unreserved.
Speed and duration: max speed 70-100 kph, dep Jabalpur 6:00 pm,
arr Jagdalpur 12:00 noon. dep Jagdalpur 2:00 pm, arrJabalpur
8:00 am. Weekly. From Jabalpur Fri, from Jagdalpur Sun.
Rake description: Shares 4 coaches with the "Madhya Bharat"
Express. Other coaches regular color.Diesel and Electric hauled.
Halts: Katni, Bilaspur, Raipur, Titlagarh, Koraput, Rayagada,
Jeypore. More halts to be added.

Also, I think that Talcher should be linked to Sambalpur with a BG line
thus providing a direct link from Cuttack to Sambalpur.

Thanks for your patience, Kumar

From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email

Subject: Tourism in India

Date: 28 Oct 1989 14:47:00 -0500

A slightly different topic on this Deepavali day - well, it actually
appeared in the New York Times last Monday -

(excerpts from the article)

Calangute(Goa) Journal: India's tourist heaven; hosts dread the visits:

Pastoral Goa, seized by the Indian troops in Dec 1961, now faces a different
kind of invasion each year: tourism.

By the end of November, tens of thousands of Indian and foreign toursirs pour
into this enclave. By Christmas, Goa is swamped. Many tourists sleep in
buses, on beaches and in schools.

......... (apprehensions from some Goans) ......

Despite the local misgivings, Goa remains New Delhi's best toursist hope.
India's reserves of hard currency have been dwindling, and the country has been
falling behind most other Asian nations in grabbing a share of the intensely
lucrative new Asian travel market. Its 1.1 million tourist arrivals in 1988 -
many of them Indian-born citizens of foreign countries - were equalled by the
much smaller Philippines and dwarfed by Thailand's 4.5 million visitors or
Malaysia's 3.5 million. Indian tourism is growing by a bare 7 percent a year,
when double-digit growth is being registered by almost all other Asian nations.
Indonesia's growth rate is more than 20%, and South Korea's is 25%.

......

Tourism officials acknowledge that developing higher standards in service,
efficiency, and cleanliness in other, harsher parts of the country is proving
difficult. The rest of India is also burdened by the spartan bed-and-board
legacy of British colonialism ..........

============================================

The writer is the NY Times New Delhi correspondent, Barbara Crosette. I
haven't noticed any new perceptions about India from her, so this
article fits the mold.
(Few things about India get positive press in this
country, and not much is ever said about IR's network.)

I thought this article might spur some discussion in this forum
because IR plays (could play) a big role in Indian tourism (esp. the local
brand). Does anyone have an idea about the growth of internal tourism
(statistics?) in the last 10 years or so? What is the occupancy of the more
recently introduced trains that connect out-of-the-way towns? What is the
motivation to introduce more such trains?

Somehow, I cannot picture Indian tourist hotspots (except Goa)
as places where one can "simply have fun" - like the Caribbean for example.
Maybe it's that spartan legacy after all ....

Ruminatingly and reflectingly yours,

-Aravind

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@dwarfs.email

Subject: Thought trains, + Catching up!

Date: 30 Oct 1989 13:25:00 -0500

Hi Facirs,

Let me start off with some comments about Kumar's thought trains:

1. Patna-Howrah "Pataliputra" Express:

Have to change the name, as there already is a Pataliputra Exp. from Patna
to Dhanbad. How about Ganga Hoogly Exp.? Too many AC Chair Car coaches.
How about two of 'em? Also is the 1 AC part of the composite coach a sitting
affair, or has regular berths? This brings me to a question: are 1 AC
coaches for day trains different from the regular 1 AC coaches? Is it true
that AC Chair Car is the only air-conditioned coach with seats (not berths)?

Eight hours seems to a more reasonable traveling time between Howrah and
Patna. I am not sure about the painting of Asoka lions on the coaches. The
Saffron and white color seems to be fine. Also, a 20 mt. halt at Asansol
is required if an electric locomotive is employed (between Howrah and
Asansol). Why not have a diesel locomotive for the entire run?
(Some trains like the Himgiri Exp. and the Hwh.-Amritsar Mail do not
change locomotives at Asansol)

The alternating stops at Bardhhaman and Durgapur could be a bit confusing.
How about having a regular halt at Bardhhaman, and a bi-weekly halt at
Durgapur? Also Jha Jha could be an additional halt.

Incidently, there is a bi-weekly superfast train between Howrah and
Gorakhpur, the Purbanchal Exp. This has halts at Durgapur, Asansol,
Jha Jha, Barauni, Samastipur, Muzaffarpur, Chhapra, Siwan and Deoria Sadar.
It surprisingly doesn't halt at Sonpur.

2. Varanasi-Rajgir "Gautam Buddha" Mail:

One could call it the Three-in-one Mail (just kidding!). How about
having two trains: Bodh Gaya Exp. between Varansi and Patna (via Gaya) and
Rajgir Exp. (Patna-Rajgir)? A night train would have odd times at Gaya.
Hence, the Bodh Gaya Exp. could be day train, with an additional halts at
Kashi and Bhabua Rd. Note this would be one of the few day trains between
Varanasi and Gaya.

Kumar writes:
> 2. If I remember correctly trains going to Delhi from Madras are up
> trains. GT is 15up towards New Delhi etc.Trains going to B'lore,
> Trivandrum etc. are down trains.

On the contrary, trains going towards Delhi are Down trains. The GT is
15 Dn. towards Delhi. Trains towards Trivandrum, Bangalore are Dn. trains too.

> 5. To make things even more confusing you have dual numbering. The old
> NDLS-HWH Toofan Express was an example. It was 64/8 (N+CRly/E Rly) from
> N.Delhi to Howrah and 63/7 in the reverse direction. Are there any other
> current examples?

The Frontier Mail is 3/4 between Bombay and Delhi and 31/32 between Delhi
and Amritsar.

Aravind writes:
> I was last in the SR scene in 86, pleasantly surprised to find an
> electric loco hauling the Brindavan Express all the way from Madras
> to Jolarpettai. Since then, I was completely in the dark about IR

I was surprised to find that most of the Southbound trains from Madras
have <= 10 mts. (more like 5 mts.) halt duration at Arrkonam, Katpadi
and Jolarpettai. It seems to indicate that they are being hauled by diesel
locomotives right from Madras. Why is that so?

> When the Delhi-Madras route is fully electrified, it will be the
> longest stretch of electrified track in IR. Does anyone know what the
> longest is in the world? the trans-siberian railway, perhaps?

I am not sure whether the 5900 miles long Moscow-Vladivostok
trans-Siberian rly. is fully electrified? It is completely doubled though.
The "Russia" (incorrectly called the Trans-Siberian Exp.) takes around 6 days to
complete this journey.

> appears to have been fairly swift. Is the entire Madras-Nagpur section
> complete?

At least, the Rly. authoroties indicate so. But the map in a May
1989 S.C. Time-table doesn't show any electification beyond Bellampalli (towards
Delhi), about 100 km. from Balharshah. This brings to the rather perplexing
halt pattern of the TN Exp. between Nagpur and Madras. It stops for 8/10 mts.
at Vijayawada, 8/2 mts. at Warangal, 12 mts. at Balharshah and 12 mts. at
Nagpur. This doesn't give it much time for locomotive changes at ANY of
these stations? Seems highly unlikely that it would stop at Bellampalli
just for changing locomotives.

Most of the trains on the Madras-Kazipet section (except the TN Exp., GT Exp.,
Kerala Exp., Charminar Exp.) have a 20 mt. at Vijayawada and a 15-20 mt. halt
at Kazipet. If they change locomotives at Kazipet, why is a 20 mt. halt
necessary at Vijayawada? Note that some of them reverse directions at Kazipet
and, thus, need to have a 20 mt. halt here.

That's all for now folks,

With regards,

Vijay

From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email

Subject: halts in timetables

Date: 31 Oct 1989 08:51:00 -0500

Vijay is perplexed about how an engine change can be accomplished in
less than five minutes. I thought to mention here that the authorities
do not take the durations seriously... eg the Brindavan express probably
still stops for 15 mins at Jolarpettai to change power as it did in April
1986..... and some such arrangement must exist for the non-electrified
portions of the Madras-Delhi route ......

in general, i've noticed that IR trains are halted at will, and for
as long as someone with power desires ......

regards,

-aravind

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: Central Rly.

Date: 01 Nov 1989 10:37:00 -0500

Hi,

I share Aravind's views about Barbara Crosette, the NY Times
correspondent in India.She often gets her facts wrong;a recent
example being an article on the Ram Janmabhoomi issue; she states
that the Central govt. asked UP to open the shrine, whereas it was
done by a court order. If asked to write about the railways, I am
sure her article will begin"The railways are still operating inspite
of the rampant corruption in India. The British had built up a sound
system and hence its survival todate."

Coming back to my thought trains, here are a few on the Central Rly:

13) Agra Cantt. - Itarsi Express:
Purpose: For short & medium distance passengers.
Classification: Moderately fast.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 completely unreserved.
Speed and duration: max 100 kph; dep 6:00 am, arr 9:00pm both
ways.
Rake description: 16 coaches, regular color, electric hauled.
Halts: Dhaulpur, Morena, Gwalior, Datia, Jhansi, Lalitpur, Bina,
Sanchi, Vidisha, Bhopal, Hoshangabad (more halts to be added)

14) Indore-Jabalpur "Madhya Bharat" Express:
Purpose: To provide superfast connection between the three largest
cities of M.P.
Classification: Superfast express.
Classes: A/C chair, 1 & 2; fully reserved.
Speed and duration: max. 110 kph; dep Indore 7:00 am, arr J'pur 3:00
pm, dep J'pur 1:00 pm, arrIndore 9:00 pm.
Rake description: 16 coaches; white and gold; diesel hauled.
Halts: Ujjain, Bhopal, Itarsi.

15) Nagpur - Pune "Vidharbha" Express:
Purpose: To provide a superfast connection between Nagpur and Pune.
Classification: Superfast Express.
Classes: A/C 2 or 1 and 2; fully reserved. 1 and A/C 2 on alternate
days.
Speed and duration: 110 kph max; dep 6:00 pm, arr 8:00 am both ways.
Daily.
Rake: 16 coaches; green and gold; diesel hauled.
Halts: Akola, Bhusaval, Jalgaon, Manmad, Ahmadnagar, Dhaund.

16) Nagpur - Dindigul Express:
Purpose: To provide a link between Central and S. India bypassing
the conventional route.
Classification: Moderately fast.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 partially reserved.
Speed and duration: max speed 100 kph; dep Nagpur Sunday 6:00 am,
arr Dindigul Monday 9:00 pm. dep Dindigul Wednesday 6:00 am, arr
Nagpur Thursday 9:00 pm.
Rake: 16 coaches; regular color; diesel and electric hauled.
Halts: Wardha Jn., Akola, Bhusaval, Jalgaon, Chalisgaon, Manmad,
Yeola, Ahmadnagar, Dhaund, Sholapur, Gulbarga, Wadi, Yadgir,
Raichur, Mantralayam Rd,
Adoni, Guntakal, Gooty, Dharmavaram, Hindupur,
Bangarapet, Kuppam, Jolarpettai, Tirupattur, Salem, Erode,
Karur.

Thanks for putting up with me, Kumar

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@cs.email

Subject: Toofan Exp. accident

Date: 01 Nov 1989 16:36:00 -0500

Path: mimsy!haven!rutgers!aramis.rutgers.edu!paul.rutgers.edu!skumar
From: skumar@paul.email (Sanjeev Kumar)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Toofan Express Train Accident.
Keywords: AP News. 11/01/89.
Message-ID: <Nov.1.15.45.49.1989.11527@paul.email
Date: 1 Nov 89 20:45:50 GMT
Distribution: usa
Organization: Rutgers Univ., New Brunswick, N.J.
Lines: 46

The Delhi-Calcutta Toofan Express derailed near Mughalsarai
today. There are 52 casualities reported.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Train Crash Kills 52
NEW DELHI, India (AP) _ An express train traveling from New
Delhi to Calcutta derailed today, killing at least 52 people and
injuring 64, news reports said.
Press Trust of India quoted Railway Minister Madhav Rao Scindia
as saying 36 bodies were removed from the wreckage and five more
were being extricated.
At least 11 passengers died in hospital, the news agency said,
quoting sources in the railways.
It also quoted passengers as saying that up to 100 people were
killed and 200 injured. United News of India news agency said more
bodies could be trapped under the train's smashed cars.
Ten of the Toofan Express' 18 coaches derailed outside the
railroad station at Sakaldiha, about 435 miles southeast of New
Delhi, the spokesman said.
The cause of the derailment was not known, he said, speaking on
condition of anonymity in keeping with government practice.
He said he did not know how many people were aboard the Toofan
Express. Trains between New Delhi and Calcutta are usually crowded,
carrying several hundred people.
Press Trust and United News of India said one of the derailed
cars plunged into a water-filled ditch. The agencies' initial
reports said eight cars had fallen into the ditch.
Press Trust said injured passengers were taken to the railway
hospital at Mughalsarai, 11 miles west of the crash. Doctors from
other towns were rushed to the area.
Mughalsarai is a major railroad junction near the border of
Uttar Pradesh and Bihar states.
In April, 67 people were killed when several cars of a
high-speed train derailed and tumbled down a rocky embankment near
Lalitpur, 280 miles south of New Delhi.
More than 100 people were killed in July 1988 when another
high-speed train plunged off a bridge and into a river in the
southern state of Kerala.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hang loose.....
--
Sanjeev Kumar. ( skumar@paul.email )
Phone: Off: (201)932-3766. Home: (201)878-2940.
Dept. of Computer Science, RUTGERS, New Brunswick, NJ08903.

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@helviti.email

Subject: Indian Railways : One Hundred Years.

Date: 02 Nov 1989 22:21:00 -0500

Hi everybody,
So, you thought that I wont post anymore from that book.
Well, here is another installment. This would be the last posting
from that book, instead of promised two. There is not much to write
about from the last few chapters. (I see quite a few happy faces
out there.)

In 1952, "One among every 400 Indians is a `Railway Man.' One in
every 100 families looks to the railways for support.

The most impressive success story of Indian Railways seems to be the
construction of Assam Rail Link. The lines in Assam were cut off from
the rest of the country after partition. The construction of a railway
link had to be undertaken immediately to provide a direct rail route
to Assam over Indian territory.

"The Assam Rail Link covers a distance of 143 miles. The route
passes through thick malarial jungles which had to be cleared before
surveys could be made, formation prepared, bridges built, track laid,
and ancilliary services provided for train running. Between Nov. 1948
and April 1949, TWO HUNDRED MILLION cubic feet of earth had to be moved
for embankments and other earthwork to bring about an appropriate
alignment. Between the two ends, the alluvial plains of East Bihar and
West Assam, lay the foothills of mighty Himalayas studded with boulders
and shingle. The alignment interspersed with deep cuts and high fills
cut across the drainage of the country and the problem lay in bridging
368 channels varying in size of bridge opening from 3 feet to 1425
feet, spread over a distance of 250 miles. This had to be accomplished
within one working season of five and a half months, in an area where
rainfall usually exceeds 250 inches per year.

Including the Tista, Torsa and Sankosh, there are 22 rivers
which required deep well foundations for constructing bridges. For
other flood openings and hill streams, steel girder bridges on masonry
abutments and piers were constructed. Heavy boulders up to six feet in
diameter, and buried tree trunks were the usual obstacles encountered
in well sinking. In this area the training of rivers on guide bund
principle had been rejected, as engineers had considered that the steep
beds of rivers, high velocities of flood waters and presence of heavy
flotsam rendered such methods unsuitable. The practice adopted instead
was to bridge every river or stream, from bank to bank, and then
protect the ends by spurs, etc, from year to year as found necessary.
The adoption of bank-to-bank bridging on this project was, however,
considered inordinately expensive and the training of rivers by guide
bunds with certain modifications was adopted.

Steel girders of Indian Railway Standard type and Army Standard
Truss type were used for spans of bridges. In three bridges, however,
pre-stressed concrete girders of 60 feet and 40 feet spans were cast
in situ [italics]. These were cast and employed for the first time
under railway loading in India and perhaps in the world, and this has
been considered a remarkable and unique achievement in bridge building.
In the case of one road under-bridge, a two-hinged rigid concrete frame
of 44 feet span and 48 degree skew was built.

In all one span of 250 feet, 29 spans of 150 feet, 4 spans of
100 feet, 14 spans of 80 feet, 18 spans of 60 feet, 20 spans of 40 feet
and 100 spans of 30 feet, and under were erected. Roofed area provided
both for service buildings and residential accomodation is 550,000
square feet. The entire project was completed at a cost of Rs.
8,89,71,204 being an average of Rs. 6,22,176 per mile."

All that work in FIVE AND A HALF MONTHS only.

Railway Zones were created by regrouping the railway systems in 1951.
The first Zone to be created was Southern Railway on 14th April 1951.
Central and Western Railways were created on 5th Nov. 1951. On 14th
April 1952, Northern, North Eastern, and Eastern Railways were
inaugrated. In the beginning there were only 6 zones. In all these
times of hectic activity, Lal Bahadur Shastri was the Railway Minister
of India.

thanks for your patience,

-dheeraj

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@cs.email

Subject: Indian Railways: One Hundred Years.

Date: 02 Nov 1989 22:34:00 -0500

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email

Subject: I'm back!

Date: 03 Nov 1989 15:33:00 -0500

Hi fellow members!

Was pained to learn about the Toofan Exp. tragedy. Any further developments
regarding the cause of the accident, etc.? This reminds me of a nasty accident
about 8 (10?) years back near Naini Jn. The speeding 103 Up Deluxe Exp.
collided with a stationary good train, with disastrous consequences.
Pilfering of goods was on the rise in the Naini-Allahabad section, and there
were speculations about some similar activity concerning the goods train
in question.

Dheeraj's recent article on rail construction in Assam was quite
informative. The bridging of the Brahmaputra near Guwahati must have been
quite a feat! Train speeds are reduced to a miserable 30-50 kmph. because of
the instability of the soil due to incessant rain in these regions.

Proceeding on my comments about Kumar's thought trains:

8) Diamond Harbour-Kharagpur "24 Parganas" Express.

Could you tell me more about the district of 24 paraganas? What does
"paraganas" mean? Is there a direct link between Ballygunge and Dankuni?

The train could have additional halts at Panagarh, Muradih, Joychandipur,
Bishnupur, Garbeta and Chandrakona Rd.

9) Lalgola - Purulia "Seema" Express:

Could have additional halts at Murshidabad, Berhampore Court, Beldanga,
Kanchrapara, Naihati, Panagarh, Muradih, Joychandipur and Anara. Why the
name "Seema"?

That's all for now,

Regards,
Vijay

From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email

Subject: new member wannabe

Date: 04 Nov 1989 09:41:00 -0500

A friend of mine, Venky Krishnaswamy, would like to join this
not-so-esoteric-anymore band of IR afficianados. It turns out
that he's travelled quite a bit by train in India, which includes
TWO overnight trips from Bangalore to Salem on the "fast"
passenger that has been glorified in these columns.
IMHO this feat automatically entitles him to full membership in
and all benefits of our august forum.

His e-mail address is:

venky@vax135.email

Could the Maintainer of the master mailing list do the needful? Venky
will be deeply appreciative ....

After reading titbits from IR's (impressive) history, I have some
questions: Is there any info in those history books that charts the
mileage growth of IR? ie what was the total mileage in 1875, 1900,
1925, 1950 (to name a few years)? When did the first Grand Trunk
express wend its way from Madras to Delhi?

Regards,

Aravind

PS: Found this on a Lionel Trains (a toy-train company) ad:

LIONEL (logo) Because no childhood should be without a train (TM).

Cute, eh?

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: 24 Parganas

Date: 05 Nov 1989 13:42:00 -0500

Hi,

In response to Vijay's questions:

8) Diamond Harbour - Kharagpur "24 Parganas" Express:

Yes, I believe that there is a link between Ballygunge and Dankuni.
The train goes north from Ballygunge, passes Park Circus and just
before Sealdah South Terminus there is a rarely used interchange to
connect it to a loop which in turn links it to the line proceeding
north from the Sealdah North Terminus. It proceeds along to
Dakshineswar and interchanges to the line traversing the Vivekananda
Bridge over the Hooghly. Once on the west bank it stays high over
ground level (on an elevated section) and crosses Bally station on the
Hwh-B'man main line without interchanges. It then gradually descends
and loops over the Hwh-B'man chord and joins it at Dankuni.

The 24 parganas district surrounds metro-Calcutta on three sides. On
the western side Calcutta is bordered by the Hooghly river. I believe
the name arises from the number of principalities which were merged
to form the district (I'm not sure; somebody more knowledgable could
enlighten us).

9) Lalgola - Purulia "Seema" Express:

I believe that Lalgola is close to the Bangladesh border. Hence the
name "Seema". Also, Purulia is close to the W.Bengal-Bihar border.

That's all for now,

Kumar

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: SC Rly.

Date: 07 Nov 1989 14:48:00 -0500

Hi,

Some of my creations which are SC Rly based:

17) Bombay VT - Panaji "Mandovi" Express:
Purpose: To link Bombay with Goa.
Classification: A fast train; BG/MG; the MG section is superfast.
Classes: A/C 1, A/C 2, 1 & 2: BG has three unreserved 2 coaches,
MG is fully reserved.
Speed and duration: 90 kph both BG and MG.dep BBVT 23:30, arr Miraj
07:15, dep Miraj 09:00, arr Panaji (Vasco) 14:45. dep Panaji 17:00
arr Miraj 22:45, dep Miraj 00:30, arr BBVT 08:15. Daily.
Rake: BG 18 coaches; regular color; electric & diesel hauled. MG
14 coaches, ocean blue and sandy brown, diesel hauled.
Halts: BG; Dadar, Kalyan, Karjat, Khandala, Lonavla, Khadki, Pune,
Satara. MG; Belgaum, Londa. Part of the BG train
terminates at Kolhapur. dep Miraj 07:45 arr K'pur 08:45
dep K'pur 23:15 arr Miraj 00:15.
18) Bangalore City - Panaji "Garden Beach" Express:
Purpose: To provide a superfast link between Bangalore and Goa.
Classification: Superfast express.
Classes: A/C 1, 1 & 2; 2 completely reserved.
Speed and duration: Max 90 kph., dep Bangalore 08:00, arr Panaji
20:00. dep Panaji 07:00, arrBangalore 19:00. From Bangalore T
and Sat; from Panaji W & Sun.
Rake: 14 coaches, diesel hauled, blue and green.
Halts: Hubli, Londa.

19) Guntur - Mangalore/Mysore Express:
Purpose: To link coastal AP with southern/coastal Karnataka.
Classification: Moderately fast.Meter gauge.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 partially reserved.
Speed and duration: max 75-80 kph., dep Guntur 09:45, arr Mysore
15:30 (next day) arr Mangalore 16:00 (next day).
dep Mangalore 07:30, dep Mysore 08:00, arrGuntur 13:45(next day).
Rake: 16 coach, regular color, steam/diesel hauled.
Halts: Cumbum, Nandyal, Mahboobnagar, Guntakal, Bellary, Hospet,
Gadag, Hubli, Ranibennur, Davangere, Birur, Arsikere, Hasan,
(Subrahmanya Rd, Mangalore), Krishnarajanagar, Mysore.

20) Vijayawada - Madras Beach Express:
Purpose: Moderately fast daytime train for short and medium distance
passengers. Will enable the speeding up of slower express trains
on the BZW-MAS section.
Classification: Moderately fast.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 completely unreserved.
Speed and duration: 110 kph max, dep 09:00, arr 18:00 (both ways).
Rake: 18 coach, regular color, electric hauled.
Halts: Krishna Canal Jn., Kolanukonda, Tenali, Bapatla, Chirala,
Nidubrolu, Ongole, Kavali, Bitragunta, Nellore, Gudur,
Nayudupeta, Sulurpeta, Gummidipundi, Ponneri.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@dwarfs.email

Subject: You know it!

Date: 07 Nov 1989 15:46:00 -0500

Hi Folks,

Am breaking the ice! Hope to hear from Venky about his IR ramblings. I am
sending one copy to him, in case, Dheeraj hasn't updated the list.

Was reading the latest India Today, and learnt that the Narmada Sagar Dam
on the Narmada river, when completed, will result in the largest man-made lake
in the world. It is feared that a sizable area of MP teak forests will perish
in this process. There was reference to a particular town, Harsud, which
attracted my attention. This lies between Khandwa and Itarsi, a route that I
have traversed upteen times. In fact, trains like the Dadar-Varanasi Exp.
and the Dadar-Amritsar Exp. do stop here. This town is supposed to be submerged
in at least 50 feet of water, once the lake is created. This means that the
Bhusaval-Khandwa-Itarsi tracks have to be relaid, which is why this route
is still un-electrified.

Continuing on my comments about Kumar's thought trains:

10) Sambalpur - Cuttack/Puri "Hirakud" Exp.:

You might be pleasently surprised to learn that there is the daily Hirakhand
Exp. between Jharsaguda and Bhubaneswar. It shares the Jharsaguda-Vizianagaram
route with the Bokaro Steel City - Madras snailer.
It leaves Jharsuguda around 2.00 p.m and arrives at Bhu.. around 9.30 a.m.
In the other dirn., it leaves Bhu. around 5.15 p.m. and arrives at Jha..
around 11.45 a.m. Its halts are:
(all stations between Jha.. and Sambalpur), Sambalpur, Hirakud, Bargarh Rd.,
Barpali, Balangir, Titlagarh, Kesinga, Rupra Rd., Narla Rd., Ambodala, Muniguda,
Therubali, Singapuram Rd., Rayagada, Parvatipuram Town, Bobbili, Vizianagaram,
Chipurupalle, Srikakulam Rd., Palasa, Ichchapuram, Berhampur, Chatrapur,
Balugan, (all stations till Khurda Rd.).

Note that Koraput does not lie in the Titlagarh-Vizia... section.

BTW, did you get my mail on thought trains in the Western Rly. (Anushakti
Exp., Gandhigram Exp., etc.)? I would like some comments on these.

More later,

Vijay

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: SR fantasies

Date: 09 Nov 1989 15:13:00 -0500

Hi,

I haven't recd. Vijay's W.Rly creations. My node was down for 3 days
and the message may have got eaten up.

Proceeding along in my fantasyland,

Trains on the Southern Rly. and in the neighborhood of:

20) Madras - Secunderabad "Hussain Sagar" Express:
Purpose: Superfast train between the southern metro areas.
Classification: Prestigious superfast train.
Classes: 1, A/C chair, 2; fully reserved.
Speed and duration: 110-120 kph; dep MAS 10:00 am arr S'bad 8:30 pm
dep S'bad 8:00 am arr MAS 6:30 pm.Tri-weekly; dep MAS M, W, F
dep S'bad T, Th, Sat.
Rake: 16 coaches, dark blue color, electric and diesel hauled.
Halts: Nellore, Vijayawada, Warangal.

21) Madras - Bangalore "Brindavan" Express: (my version)
Purpose: REAL superfast service between the two largest cities
in S. India.
Classification: Prestigious superfast train.
Classes: A/C chair and 2: fully reserved.
Speed and duration: 110-120 kph; dep MAS 8:00 am arr B'lore City
12:45; dep B'lore 3:00 pm arr MAS 7:45 pm. daily.
Rake: 16 coaches, Original green with gold stripes, diesel hauled.
Halts: Non-stop.

22) Bangalore - Mysore "Kaveri" Express:
Purpose: Non-stop service on the heavily travelled B'lore - Mysore
line.
Classification: Superfast Express.M.G.
Classes: A/C chair, 2: fully reserved.
Speed and duration: max 90 kph, dep Mysore 11:00 am, arr B'lore
(City) 1:10 pm; dep B'lore 2:50 pm, arr Mysore 5:00 pm.
Rake: 14 coaches, Green with gold stripes, diesel hauled.
Halts: Non-stop.

23) Hubli - Pondicherry Express:
Purpose: To link Northern Karnataka with TN.
Classification: Moderately fast.
Speed and duration: 75 -80 kph; dep Hubli 4:30 pm, arr P'cherry
1:30 pm (next day).dep Pondicherry 1:00 pm arr Hubli 10:00 am
(next day).daily.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 partially reserved.
Rake: 16 coaches, regular color, steam/diesel hauled.
Halts: Gadag, Hospet, Bellary, Guntakal, Dharmavaram, Pakala*,
Chittoor, Katpadi, Vellore, Tiruvannamalai, Villupuram.

* 6 coaches detached/attached to run as Pakala-Tirupati "Link I"
Express connecting Hubli with Tirupati.
* 6 coaches attached/detached to run as Pakala-Tirupati "Link II"
Express connecting Tirupati with Pondicherry.

24) Mysore - Nagore Express:
Purpose: To provide presently non-existant express service to
link Mysore/Bangalore with TN on MG.
Classification: Moderately Fast train.
Classes: 1 & 2; 2 partially reserved.
Speed and duration: max 80 kph, dep Mysore 5:00 am, arr Nagore
11:00 pm; dep Nagore 4:00 am, arr Mysore 10:00 pm. daily.
Rake: 14-16 coaches, regular color, steam/diesel hauled.
Halts: Srirangapatna, Mandya, Bangalore City,Hosur, Dharmapuri,
Salem Jn., Attur, Vriddhachalam, Ariyalur, Srirangam, Tiruchi Jn.,
Thanjavur, Tiruvarur, Nagapattinam.

25) Mangalore - Trivandrum "Monsoon" Express:
Purpose: To provide superfast service on the southwest coast.
Classification: Superfast train.
Classes: 1, 2; 2 fully reserved.
Speed and duration: 110 kph, dep M'lore T, F 8:00 am, arr T'rum
5:00 pm; dep T'rum M, Th 9:00 am, arr M'lore 6:00 pm.
Rake: 16-18 coaches, blue, gray and green color, diesel hauled.
Halts: Kasaragod (M/T only), Calicut, Trichur, ErnakulamTown,
Kottayam (Th/F only), Quilon.

Sorry to have bored you, Kumar

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email

Subject: My WR trains!

Date: 09 Nov 1989 15:55:00 -0500

Hi Folks,

I am repeating my WR superfast creations so that I can receive some
feedback from you.

1. Gomti Narmada Exp.:- Bombay Central Lucknow superfast,
2 AC, 1 & 2, Bi-weekly
Color:- Orange, Yellow and Blue (original Ganga-Kaveri Exp. color)
Halts:- Surat, Vadodara, Ratlam, Kota, Gangapur City, Agra Fort,
Tundla, Kanpur Central

2. Gandhigram Exp. :- Bombay Central Ahmedabad superfast,
1 AC, AC Chair Car, 1 & 2,
six days a week,
Color: Yellow and Green (original KK exp. color)
Halts:- Surat, Vadodara
Day train:- dep. B'by ~6.00 a.m. arr. Ah'dbd ~12.45 p.m.
dep. Ah'dbd ~2.15 p.m. arr. B'by ~ 9.15 p.m.
Hauled by a WCAM-1 electric loco. with same color as coaches

3. Anushakti Exp. :- Bombay Central Kota superfast,
2 AC, 1 & 2, bi-weekly,
Color:- White and Brown (original Kalka/Frontier ML. color)
Halts:- Dadar (Up. dirn. only), Valsad, Surat, Vadodara, Ratlam

My version of the Bombay Rajdhani Exp. doesn't stop at Kota
(but at Gangapur City only for technical purposes, and for 5 mts.). Also it
has a 5 mt. halt at Vadodara and a 12 mt. halt at Ratlam. Hence, its halt
pattern is very similar to its Howrah counterpart. Note that this enables the
B'by Rajdhani to be speeded up by about 20 mts.

4. Rajasthan Queen Exp. :- Bombay Central - Ahmedabad - Jaipur superfast,
tri-weekly,
color:- Red and blue with white stripes (original GT exp. color)
B.G. Exp.:- day train, 1 AC, AC Chair Car, 1 & 2
halts: Valsad, Surat, Vadodara
M.G. Exp.:- 2 AC, 1 & 2
halts: Mahesana, Abu Rd., Marwar, Ajmer

And then, there is the North-West Exp. running quad-weekly between Bombay
Central and Jammu Tawi, and tri-weekly between Bombay V.T. and Jammu Tawi.
It is slower than the Frontier/Punjab Mails.

Will be back with comments on Kumar's list of thought trains!

Regards,
Vijay

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: response to Vijay

Date: 10 Nov 1989 12:13:00 -0500

Hi,

My response to Vijay's creations:

2) Bombay - Ahmedabad "Gandhigram" Express:
Looks fine; I think that it should be a daily however.

1) Bombay - Lucknow "Gomti Narmada", (3) B'bay-Ahmedabad-Jaipur
"Rajasthan Queen" and (4) B'bay-Kota "Anushakti" Expresses.

Vijay may not like this, but .......

Option 1) Keep the "Gomti Narmada" as it is but extend the
Anushakti to Sawai Madhopur and provide a link MG express to
and from Jaipur. Cancel the Bombay-Ahmedabad part of the
Rajasthan Queen.

Reason: The Sawai Madhopur route lessens the distance on MG.
Kota is still provided with a superfast train from B'bay. This
train could be run daily. A superfast link between A'bad and
Jaipur is still retained.Also the existing Delhi-Ahmadabad
MG "Ashram" express should by-pass Jaipur traversing instead
the Rewari-Ringus chord.

Option 2) Keep the Gomti Narmada as it is, but cancel the
BG part of the Rajasthan Queen; also divert Ashram as in option 1.
Run a second Bombay-Lucknow superfast, but it will have a long
halt at Sawai Madhopur. Now run a link express which arrives from
Jaipur to provide a link from Jaipur to Lucknow. It waits for the
B'bay-L'now superfast and then returns to Jaipur with Bombay-Jaipur
passengers. A complementary link express is also run for the
Lucknow-Bombay superexpress.

Reason: Same as for option (1) but an added Jaipur-Lucknow link is
provided.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email

Subject: Re: reponse to Vijay

Date: 10 Nov 1989 13:34:00 -0500

Hi,

My comments on Kumar's response to my WR trains:

1) Gandhigram Exp.:- Running it six days a week enables two sets of rakes to
do the job. It is not surprising that most of the >8 hrs. travel-time day
trains (Gomti Exp., Vaigai Exp., etc) run six days a week.

2) Bombay-Lucknow Gomti Narmada Exp.:- My original version did stop at
Sawai Madhopur (and not at Gangapur
City), and ran once a week till Varanasi (via Pratapgarh), so that a direct link
between Jaipur and Bombay/Lucknow/Varanasi could be provided. However, the
extension of the Marudhar Exp. till Lucknow has resulted in direct (M.G.)
service between Lucknow and Jaipur/Jodhpur.

The B.G./M.G. Rajasthan Queen Exp. links Bombay with not only Jaipur but
other imp. places like Mahesana, Abu Rd., Marwar and Ajmer. In fact, I am
thinking in terms of the bi-weekly Thar Exp. (Bombay-Ahdemabad-Bikaner
superfast) and the bi-weekly Mahal Exp. (Bombay-Ahmedabad-Udaipur City
superfast) running on "non- Rajasthan Queen days".

Since, there seems to be an excess of day trains between Bombay and
Ahmedabad, the existing Gujarat Exp., a day train, could be extended till say,
Gandhinagar Capital or Viramgam.

Also, Bombay-Jaipur could be linked by an alternate route. Since there
already is a tri-weekly superfast train, there could be a medium fast train
employing Sawai Madhopur as the B.G.-M.G. changeover point (the route suggested
by Kumar). It could be called Jaipur Exp.

The Rajasthan Queen Exp., Thar Exp., Mahal Exp., Anushakti Exp., and
Jaipur Exp. are all part of a plan to link Bombay with imp. cities in
Rajasthan.

Kumar, did you receive my mail about other thought trains
(Bombay-Guwahati Exps., Tinsukia Exp., Dadar-Ranchi Exp., Malviya Exp.,
Kailash Exp., Rajasthan Exp., etc.) or was it lost in the computer mess-up?

More later,

Regards,
Vijay

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@cs.email

Subject: Re: response to Vijay

Date: 12 Nov 1989 19:14:00 -0500

Kumar writes:
>Also the existing Delhi-Ahmadabad MG
>"Ashram" express should by-pass Jaipur traversing
>instead the Rewari-Ringus chord.

Rewari-Ringus chord. Yup, that's where I have made most
of my journeys. (Delhi-Kanpur section would give a tough
competition.) I always wish there were some fast passenger
or an express train serving the route, other than the
Janata Exp. (they call it Aravali Exp. in the timetables
these days, but all old-timers know it as Janata only)
Janata has bad timings, especially while coming to Delhi.
I normally visit Narnaul, a station in Distt. Mahendargarh
in Haryana, and Neem-ka-Thana, a station in Distt. Sikar
in Rajasthan. My father and mother belong to the two
places respectively. The other two trains, 219/220 Delhi-
Mehsana Passengers, and Ringus-Rewari Addha (half-train),
are very slow, and higly unreliable. I remember travelling
on the "Addha" in June 1983, on the day of the world cup
final. The train was 5 hours late, and I reached Narnaul,
when the last ball was being bowled. (Not that I am a big
fan of cricket, but I don't like to reach a place past
midnight.)

I have always wished for a new express train connecting
Delhi and Jaipur via Rewari-Ringus Chord. It would be about
as fast as the current Janata Exp. (If it were to be any
faster, I am sure my favorite stations would get the miss.)
Stopping at Gurgaon, Pataudi, Garhi Harsaru Jn., Rewari, Ateli,
Narnaul, Nizampur, Neem-ka-Thana, and more. (I don't remember
the stations beyond, since I have travelled that section
rather infrequently.)

Last year when I went to Delhi, I travelled by Janata on this
route. It was, as always, extremely crowded. (It was, of course,
no longer Janata, as a couple of 1st class coaches testified.)
I went into the military compartment. (In fact, it was a general
compartment, but was totally occupied by military personnel.)
At first they wouldn't let anyone sit on the seats, since they
were sleeping. I started talking to them, and during the
discussion, they came to know that I study in USA. "Where did
you say, you are going?" "Neem-ka-Thana." "That's not far. The
train would reach there at 9:30pm. We can sleep after that. Why
don't you sit down on the seat?"

-dheeraj

From: SC10000 <SC10%NEMOMUS.BITNET@ricevm1.email

Subject: history of the GT express

Date: 15 Nov 1989 15:04:00 -0500

Hi,

Vijay, could you send me your stuff about the Malviya exp. etc?

Have you folks heard about the American European Express from Wash. D.C.
to Chicago? This is supposed to be a luxury train and the one way fare
is in excess of $600!!

Aravind inquired about the history of the GT express some time ago. I
believe that the GT used to run initially from Madras to Peshawar,
mainly as a transport for military personnel. This was during the pre-
independence days. It was also the only train from the north to the
south. At that time it traversed the greatest distance of all trains
in India and hence its name. After the partition its route was
truncated at Delhi and then at New Delhi. This information was
offered to me by an elderly gentleman during one of my trips on the GT.
Other famous trains like the Frontier Mail also had their routes shorten
-ed.

The GT got entangled in the politics of language in the 60's. The then
prestigious "Southern Express" had been introduced between N.Delhi and
Madras; it was faster than the GT. Some scatterbrain in the railway
board decided to be
ultra-nationalistic and rename the Southern as the "Dakshin" Express.
This was a god-given opportunity for the Tamil "defenders" in the
DMK to protest (even violently). A compromise was worked out; the
original Southern became the present GT (this appeased our DMK friends)
the original GT became the present day Dakshin (this appeased our
Angrezi-hatao friends). However the Dakshin had to find sanctuary
in the friendlier confines of Hyderabad.

Bye for now, Kumar

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