IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 8941 - 8960
From: S.SRINIVAS <>
Subject: Re: Hi !!!
Date: 08 Oct 1999 10:13:43 -0500
dear sandeep
can u clarify what u mean by
reverse station.
officially, the work of doubling the hassan
mangalore railway is still on. the main
difficulty, i suppose, is the shortage of
funds. chandan smuggler veerappan is
quite far off from this section. his area
of operation is at least 150 kms from
hassan.
regards to all.
S. SRINIVAS
============================
San-Ind wrote:
> dear Vijay,
> Hi !
> Thanx for the fantasy trains...... But I've a question ??? In my
knowledge
> Igatpuri is a reverse station ???
> Is it ???
>
> I'd heard About the Abandoned Work of Gauge Conversion between
> Hassan-Mangalore.....
> Ist thing it is in Dense Forests and lot of Animals, snakes etc.....
> But main reason is the Famous Chandan Smuggler Virappan..... Ministry
of
> Railway had sent around 10-15 Survey PArties there.... But Every time
> Veerappan Threated them & ordered to stop the work..... Now its almost
1-2
> years.... I think its still pending.....
>
> Regards
>
> Sandeep
>
From: S.SRINIVAS <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 08 Oct 1999 10:13:52 -0500
Dear Viraf
I would like to add one more to this list of four.
THE KANGARA VALLY RAILWAY
about which Raymond made a mention.
It is just lovely to travel on this section
in winter.
Regards
S. SRINIVAS
========================
VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
> >
> > Viraf and gang,
> >
> > Anybody willing to volunteer a list of the Top 10 in India
> >
> > Raymond
>
> Raymond,
>
> Lets start with the 4 Exotic mountain railways of our IR.
>
> 1. Darjeeling
> 2. Nilgiri
> 3. Simla
> 4. Matheran.
>
> What I fail to understand was how were the Top 20 judged. Scenic (then
TGV
> & Eurostar are definitely out), Exotic (again these two are out),
comfort
> (then Darjeeling Is out). And what's so great about Napa Valley Wine
Train
> & the American Oriental Express.
>
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> ==========================
From: S.Shankar <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 08 Oct 1999 12:28:31 -0500
Hello,
Without going too much into the exotic, here are a few really
spectacular journeys, most of which I've only HEARD ABOUT.:
1. From Mandapam to Rameshwaram (or nearabouts); They say the tiny mg
train atop a slender bridge with the mighty sea with salt spray on
either side is something never to be forgotten.
2. The line over the ghats near Shencotta (Shengottai) and Tenkasi on
the SR.
3. The Kirandul Kottavalasa line
4. Mysore-Hassan-Mangalore, also nicknamed the emerald route or some
such.
5. Actually, while I was less than ten years old when we moved from
Durgapur to Poona, and hence stopped travelling on the East Coast line,
I used to enjoy some of the journeys on that line.
Highlights of that route are: 1)The long Godavari bridge 2) The massive
Chilka lake, which the train skirts 3) In many stretches, the train runs
parallel to the coast, but one cannot actually see the sea.The only tell
tale reminders of the sea are the cool sea breeze, and the tips of the
tall triangular sails of fishing craft. Its fascinating to see only
tiny white triangles at the skyline.
6. Notwithstanding the irritating overcrowding and constant pestering by
vendors, the Bombay-Poona line is also quite spectacular, especially in
the monsoon. Velvet-like green grass covering the hills, and the
waterfalls that spring up during the monsoons: terrific.You could get
drenched by these temporary waterfalls if you are not careful!
7. Pathankot to Jammu is also quite interesting. I've done that line in
1979, much before the terrorist nuisance.
Cheers.
Shankar
S.SRINIVAS wrote:
>
> Dear Viraf
>
> I would like to add one more to this list of four.
>
> THE KANGARA VALLY RAILWAY
>
> about which Raymond made a mention.
> It is just lovely to travel on this section
> in winter.
>
> Regards
>
> S. SRINIVAS
>
> ========================
>
> VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
>
> > >
> > > Viraf and gang,
> > >
> > > Anybody willing to volunteer a list of the Top 10 in India
> > >
> > > Raymond
> >
> > Raymond,
> >
> > Lets start with the 4 Exotic mountain railways of our IR.
> >
> > 1. Darjeeling
> > 2. Nilgiri
> > 3. Simla
> > 4. Matheran.
> >
> > What I fail to understand was how were the Top 20 judged. Scenic
(then TGV
> > & Eurostar are definitely out), Exotic (again these two are out),
comfort
> > (then Darjeeling Is out). And what's so great about Napa Valley Wine
Train
> > & the American Oriental Express.
> >
> > ==========================
> > Viraf Mulla
> > C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> > Borivali (West)
> > Mumbai 400103
> > Tel: +91-22-8954510
> > E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> > ==========================
From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 08 Oct 1999 12:36:41 -0500
VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
>
> Gang,
>
> This is what I came across in October 99 issue of "TODAY'S RAILWAYS".
>
> In the opinion of the Society of International Railway Travellers,
which
> has members in 17 countries, the top 20 railway journeys in the world
are:
>
> 1. American Orient Express.
> 2. Bergensbanen, Norway.
> 3. Bernina Express, Switzerland.
> 4. Blue Train, South Africa.
> 5. Toronto-Vancouver, Canada.
> 6. Coast Starline (Los Angeles-Seattle), USA.
> 7. Cumbres & Toltec Scenic Railroad (Chama, New Mexico-Antonito,
> Colombia).
> 8. Trans-Siberian (Moscow-Vladivostok).
> 9. Eastern & Oriental Express (Bangkok-Singapore).
> 10. Eurostar.
> 11. Glacier Express, Switzerland.
> 12. Indian Pacific (Sydney-Perth), Australia.
> 13. Napa Valley Wine Train (Napa-St.helena, California), USA.
> 14. Nice-Digne, France.
> 15. Orient Express (London-Paris-Venice).
> 16. Rocky Mountaineer (Vancouver-Calgary), Canada.
> 17. Rovos Rail, South Africa.
> 18. Sierra Madre Express, Mexico.
> 19. TGV, France.
> 20. Darjeeling- Jalpaiguri, India.
>
WHAT!??? No British Columbia Railway? Its' tri-weekly train between
Vancouver and Prince George is truely spectacular. Not only does it
travel through inaccessible and spectacular scenery, they still deliver
mail and newspapers to isolated communities. Plus using Budd RDCs makes
it easy to "footplate" with the crew. It is not most comfortable but IS
spectacular.
I'm am also a little annoyed that the The Adirondack Scenic was not
mentioned,(I work for them).
Regards, Tim
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> ==========================
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 08 Oct 1999 13:01:42 -0500
> Raymond,
>
> Lets start with the 4 Exotic mountain railways of our IR.
>
> 1. Darjeeling
> 2. Nilgiri
> 3. Simla
> 4. Matheran.
>
> What I fail to understand was how were the Top 20 judged. Scenic (then
TGV
> & Eurostar are definitely out), Exotic (again these two are out),
comfort
> (then Darjeeling Is out). And what's so great about Napa Valley Wine
Train
> & the American Oriental Express.
>
>
I, too, fail to see the logic behind choosing the above journeys. If
luxury
was one of the parameters, then
how come the Royal Orient / Palace-on-Wheels has not been featured
here?
Vijay
From: Shanku Niyogi <>
Subject: Conrail Cyclopedia
Date: 08 Oct 1999 13:56:31 -0500
Folks,
As I ask these questions about the WAP1, I'm reminded of the Conrail
Cyclopedia site at
<A HREF="http://crcyc.railfan.net">http://crcyc.railfan.net</A>
It is literally a treasure chest of information for people looking for
information on the US career Conrail. There are detailed locomotive
pages,
with histories, photos of body details, etc.
Someday, if I get the time, maybe I can get the IRFCA site to have
something
like this! First, I have to get the site up and running, of course...
From: Nagaraj Mandya Kanchi <>
Subject: Fastest train
Date: 08 Oct 1999 18:35:50 -0500
Hi,
My name is Nagaraj and I recently joined the list. I have always
wondered which train would be the fastest train in India and also, how
much would its maximum speed be?
Also, what are the advantages/disadvantages of the diesel
powered
engine compared to the electric engines?
--
Regards,
Nagaraj
From: Samit Roychoudhury <>
Subject: Re: KR electrification
Date: 08 Oct 1999 19:34:16 -0500
i think the kirandul kottavasala (may be wrong about the terminal
points) is
probably the primary single line electrification in the country.
there are a few small sections elsewhere i guess.
From: San-Ind <>
Subject: Hassan-Mangalore !!!
Date: 08 Oct 1999 20:27:51 -0500
Dear Mr. Srinivas,
Hi !!
About Manglore-Hassan Project.....
I'd met with One of our clients who are Survey Engineers. They had got
the
job around 1year ago....
He was telling me about Veerappan thing....... He was saying they had
completed the work upto 9-10 kms. & when they entered in dense forests
....
The threat has come....
Any way, Can u tell me about Chamrajnagar-Mettupalyam Rail link ??? Is
it
in progress or still in Papers....
I also want some info about Chitradurg & Rayadurg Link??? HAs it a Hilly
Terrain ???
Regards
Sandeep Sharma
____( \ .-' `-. / )____
(____ \_____ / (O O) \ _____/ ____)
(____ `-----( ) )-----' ____)
(____ _____________\ \____/ /_____________ ____)
(______/ `-.____.-' \______)
"A part of you has grown in me,
together forever we shall be,
never apart,
maybe in distance,
but not in heart"
~unknown
From: Samit Roychoudhury <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 09 Oct 1999 03:54:30 -0500
i dont know about top 10 but i enjoy these following journeys:
shimla - kalka on the railcar, sitting righth in the front beside the
driver.
pune - bombay by deccan queen or even the shatabdi... even though its
clinical and the food bad, the service is good.
the ahmedabad - delhi old metre gauge line... like the feel of mg. its
quaint
i havent really travelled too many routes, so my views are limited
i loved the idea of dining cars... so romantic... i wish they werent
scrapped.
incidentally the gitanjali express used to have a library earlier...
when it
was started. one of the 3tier coaches had one doored compartment which
housed the collection. passengers had to pay a deposit to borrow books
and
magazines, and the deposit was refunded less reading charges on return.
From: Vdate <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 09 Oct 1999 06:53:41 -0500
In a message dated 10/9/99 3:59:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
samr@vsnl.email
writes:
<< i loved the idea of dining cars... so romantic... i wish they werent
scrapped. >>
Agree. Eating good freshly prepared food in a dining car with fresh
linen
while watching the scenery go by is a distinct feature of rail travel. I
miss
the dining cars too. If IR ever wants to have its trains to be counted
in
world class trains, IR better reintroduce real dining cars. I hope the
next
railway minister is aggressive and visionary.
From: S.SRINIVAS <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 09 Oct 1999 08:51:33 -0500
hello gang
for me the top 10 or 20 or whatever number
of rail journeys will be next 10 or 20 or more
rail journeys which i will really undertake.
any rail journey any where is equally good.
on ir it is really good if u have a confirmed
seat or berth, have some good company
(friends, rail fans or even ir employees) to
chat with, get some good food to eat and
get some daylight hours of travel to hang
around the door of the carriage.
watching the country side is very enjoyable.
difficult or hilly terrain, a ghat section to boot,
well what more can u ask. just relax and
enjoy the ride. never carry any book or
paperwork.
on the technical or engineering side, one can
always keep inspecting the permanent way,
bridges, signals, ohe etc. etc. if it happens to
be a new section (meaning that it is my first
journey on that particular section or if the ride
is a repeat after a pretty long time), there is
a little bit more excitement.
a friendly or obliging loco driver can always
make it an experience to remember it for ever.
though i must admit that their numbers are
dwindling. foot plating these days is rare.
so there. each one to his or her own 10 or
20 or more top journeys. cheers.
S. SRINIVAS
================================
From: S.SRINIVAS <>
Subject: Re: KR electrification
Date: 09 Oct 1999 09:59:46 -0500
hello rajan.
since KR is a new rail line, i suppose that
the signalling and interlocking arrangements
will all be of new variety. keyless section
working - so no dropping and collecting
keys (token) at each way side stations.
all signals will also be of electric type.
pls confirm.
communications must also be good. i know
they have optic fibre cable. but i do not
know how much of electronics they have.
the section capacity will be low as the
stations (switching or crossing points)
are few and inter station distances are
large. any kind of centralised control
(CTC) implemented in IR or KR only
gives a bird's eye view and the CTC
controller decides and passes on the
instructions to the respective station
masters as to where any crossings or
overtakings should take place. this
reduces delays (or optimises delays)
but does not increase section train
capacity.
for increasing the train capacity, one
needs to go in for sectionalised block
working. signals should be placed one
or two kms. apart with the preceeding
train setting the signals for the train
following it. it is possible to have this
kind of automatic signalling arrangement
even in a single track section. the train
capacity increases substantially if only
the direction of traffric flow is in one
direction at a time. trains can be stacked
up for say six hours in one direction and
later in the other direction. the time gap
between trains can be reduced from 30
minitues to about 5 minitues.
while this kind of unidirectional traffic
flow cannot be achieved for a local
train emu section (empty emu rakes
have to cleared which results in even
traffic flow in both the directions), it
can be easily done for a mainline.
the most important requirment for this is
a reliable power supply for the signals.
on a elecrtified section, this presents
no problems. small step down trans-
formers are used to derieve 110 v ac
power from 25 kv ohe. hence, if KR
is electrified and signalling improved
(even without actually doubling the
rail tracks), one can easily achieve
about 1.8 times the traffic of a
normal single line section. with the
limitation on the pattern of traffic
flow, of course.
regarding the pollution in tunnels,
electrification will surely solve the
problem. i hope that KR does it
fast.
S. SRINIVAS
===========================
Rajan Mathew wrote:
> I wonder what you mean by "improved signalling arrangements". KR has
the
> most modern signalling system (fibre optic communication) with cables
> obviously, and centrally monitored from the headquarters at CBD
Belapur.
> Electrification however is quite necessary because of the pollution
that the
> passengers suffer when the trains pass through the tunnels ... 84.95
km
> combined length. more than 11 percent of the entire KR line of 760 km.
>
> Rajan
>
> > WITH ELECTRIFICATION AND IMPROVED
> > SIGNALLING ARRANGEMENTS, YOU CAN
> > PRACTICALLY HAVE DOUBLE TRAIN
> > CAPACITY ON KR. AND, OF COURSE,
> > THROUGH RUNNING OF ELECTRIC LOCOS
> > FROM EKM (AFTER ELECTRIFICATION IS
> > COMPLETE) TO MUMBAI / AHMEDABAD /
> > NEW DELHI.
> >
> > S. SRINIVAS
> >
> > raymond/Polaris@polaris.email wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Srinivas and gang,
> > >
> > > KR being a single line section - it does look doubtful. I wonder
how
> many
> > > non-freight / non-mining sections are electrified while still
single
> line. I
> > > suppose most the electrified sections are doubled. Gang, anybody
with a
> ready
> > > list of elec.single lines.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Raymond
> >
> >
> >
From: S.Shankar <>
Subject: GT Mac and a revised diesel fiesta page
Date: 09 Oct 1999 13:41:46 -0500
Hello,
I just received the Sept 1999 issue of the IR mag, with a GT Mac in a
terrific white-yellow livery. Inside, there are pics of the beast
rolling out of the works and of a flower bedecked unit. Also in the
article is a nice WDP/2 in yellow/red livery (the yellow predominates)
with a wrong caption, referring to it as the GT Mac.
The GT Macs have been classed WDG/4 by the IR.
Check out some pics (poor quality due to the poor quality of the
original images) in my revised diesel fiesta site:
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/shankaronline/dslfiesta.htm">http://members.tripod.com/shankaronline/dslfiesta.htm</A>
Cheers.
Shankar
From: Rajan Mathew <>
Subject: Re: KR electrification
Date: 09 Oct 1999 21:16:24 -0500
Dear All,
I have just landed myself a scanner and am scanning my stock of pix on
the
KR right now.
A more extensive site on the KR with all tips - (as Apurva and Sarosh
may
require for their coming trip) - is being put together
So Guys ... just hang on there ... very soon you'll get what you've been
waiting for....
Rajan
----- Original Message -----
From: S.Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
To: Rajan Mathew <rajanmathew@telebot.email
Cc: S.SRINIVAS <asconsri@bgl.email
<raymond/Polaris@polaris.email
IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 1999 9:14 AM
Subject: Re: KR electrification
> Hello,
> There was once a post from Apurva Bahadur lauding our dear Rajan as
the
> Konkan Railway specialist. I'd even drafted a reply to that the same
> day. Unfortunately, something went wrong, and I lost all the contents
of
> my mailbox at that time: inbox, sent, composed mail etc. etc.
>
> This KR post from Rajan prompts me to say what I'd said that day in
that
> unsent mail: THREE CHEERS to our dear KR specialist.
> Its nice to see someone fousing his attentions on the
> still-rare-and-hitherto-comparatively-unexplored KR. You work when
> complete will be an invaluable reference work, Rajan.
> I have only one complaint :-)
> For all the terrific info you have posted, and for the amount of
travels
> you have put in on the KR, I'd like to see a photo gallery on your KR
> site. Lets see some of those quaint KR stations, the push pull dmu,
the
> countryside, the trains, how the regular trains look on parts of the
KR
> (despite the monotonous standard designs, some of them do begin to
look
> different in different surroundings!(am I getting too
> romantic?),stations, trackside furniture and misc. railway vehicles,
> anything. Think about it.
> In case you need any help in scanning and uploading the pics, let me
> know.Always glad to help. In case sending them to Dubai will prove to
> be too expensive, I'm sure (and I'm taking the liberty of saying) our
> dear friend Apurva will be happy to oblige as well!
> Owing to the relative novelty of the KR, what about a section of
'Whats
> new on the KR' section? (just brainstorming!)
> Cheers, and keep up the good work!
> Shankar
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: GT Mac and a revised diesel fiesta page
Date: 10 Oct 1999 00:23:20 -0500
"S.Shankar" wrote:
> Hello,
> I just received the Sept 1999 issue of the IR mag, with a GT Mac in a
> terrific white-yellow livery. Inside, there are pics of the beast
> rolling out of the works and of a flower bedecked unit. Also in the
> article is a nice WDP/2 in yellow/red livery (the yellow predominates)
> with a wrong caption, referring to it as the GT Mac.
> The GT Macs have been classed WDG/4 by the IR.
I got the mag yesterday - the service may be improving after all ! Have
you noticed
the departure from the strip type cowcatcher/ cattle guard to a solid
one piece item ?
With the the WDM 4, it was mentioned somewhere that the EMD had
forgotten to remove
the snow plough. Even the WAP 1 - 4s have the older strip type guard
while ABB and
the new DLW powers have one piece guards.
Apurva
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: GT Mac and a revised diesel fiesta page
Date: 10 Oct 1999 06:49:49 -0500
Please also note the thick grill on the WDP 2 windscreen while the WDG 4
fresh from
the USA is yet to get these. Cannot help seeing how similar the faces
WAP 1-4, WDP 2
and the WDG 4 look. After Shanku's mail about the various objects on
the WAP 1s face,
I have started to notice unusual items, the WDP 2 has square 'marker'
lamps and a
single 'Diesel' style MU connector. As per last month's Indian Railway
mag, CLW has
started fitting a cluster of solid state LED lamps in place of filament
lamps in the
WAP 4s and other locos.
Apurva
"S.Shankar" wrote:
> Hello,
> I just received the Sept 1999 issue of the IR mag, with a GT Mac in a
> terrific white-yellow livery.
From: C. Zeni <>
Subject: Re: GT Mac and a revised diesel fiesta page
Date: 10 Oct 1999 06:56:47 -0500
Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> "S.Shankar" wrote:
>
> > Hello,
> > I just received the Sept 1999 issue of the IR mag, with a GT Mac in
a
> > terrific white-yellow livery. Inside, there are pics of the beast
> > rolling out of the works and of a flower bedecked unit. Also in the
> > article is a nice WDP/2 in yellow/red livery (the yellow
predominates)
> > with a wrong caption, referring to it as the GT Mac.
> > The GT Macs have been classed WDG/4 by the IR.
>
> I got the mag yesterday - the service may be improving after all !
Have you noticed
> the departure from the strip type cowcatcher/ cattle guard to a solid
one piece item ?
> With the the WDM 4, it was mentioned somewhere that the EMD had
forgotten to remove
> the snow plough. Even the WAP 1 - 4s have the older strip type guard
while ABB and
> the new DLW powers have one piece guards.
Snowplows are ordered on all new US power, regardless of where it will
be operating. Primary reason is that the plow helps shunt the vehicles
of idiot motorists out of the way, helping keep the vehicle from getting
under the loco and derailing the train. Keeps the train crew from being
injured due to the actions of fools who try to beat the train to a level
crossing.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>
When I read about the evils of drinking,
I gave up reading. - Henny Youngman
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: GT Mac and a revised diesel fiesta page
Date: 10 Oct 1999 06:57:33 -0500
Please also note the thick grill on the WDP 2 windscreen while the WDG 4
fresh from
the USA is yet to get these. Cannot help seeing how similar the faces
WAP 1-4, WDP 2
and the WDG 4 look. After Shanku's mail about the various objects on
the WAP 1s face,
I have started to notice unusual items, the WDP 2 has square 'marker'
lamps and a
single 'Diesel' style MU connector. As per last month's Indian Railway
mag, CLW has
started fitting a cluster of solid state LED lamps in place of filament
lamps in the
WAP 4s and other locos.
Apurva
"S.Shankar" wrote:
> Hello,
> I just received the Sept 1999 issue of the IR mag, with a GT Mac in a
> terrific white-yellow livery.
From: Mike Brooker <>
Subject: Re: TOP 20 RAIL JOURNEYS.
Date: 10 Oct 1999 11:13:56 -0500
>i loved the idea of dining cars... so romantic... i wish they werent
>scrapped.
Dining cars would be nice, but I found that having a meal handed to me
at by
seat by a bearer was part of the unique IR experience. The :( quality
of
the food, unfortunately, was also part of the experience.
I wouldn't mind a bar car or club car, but that might be a problem in
Gujarat and other states where prohibition is still in effect.
>
>incidentally the gitanjali express used to have a library earlier...
when
it
>was started. one of the 3tier coaches had one doored compartment which
>housed the collection. passengers had to pay a deposit to borrow books
and
>magazines, and the deposit was refunded less reading charges on return.
>
An on-board library? I would expect that on a train named in honour of
Rabindranath Tagore! Were there books in English or was the collection
only
in Bengali?
In 1988 I travelled on the L.A - Seattle "Coast Starlight" (#6 on the
list).
But my favourite North American rail journey was riding on the City of
New
Orleans from Chicago to New Orleans (and re-enacting the Arlo Guthrie
song).
This was in 1989, when Amtrak was still running "Heritage Fleet" cars on
this route, left over from the late 40s when the City of New Orleans was
the
pride of the Illinois Central. I've only travelled on VIA Rail's
Toronto-Vancouver "Canadian" (#5) as far as Sudbury, Ontario, when I was
a
student at Laurentian University (<A HREF="http://www.laurentian.ca)">http://www.laurentian.ca)</A> The bus
between
Sudbury and Toronto was almost 2 hours faster.
********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************