IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 8001 - 8020

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 29 Aug 1999 19:59:02 -0500

I'll second that. I don't think our Bihari babus and those in the Rail
Bhavan will go all the way till Karl Marx and all, esp. considering that
even the largely Marxist neighbor West Bengal has spared us names based
on Communist ideologies!
I thought Cpital refered to the state capital Patna, its as simple as
that. Does this train touch Patna?
While on the subject of quaint names (I wouldn't call them odd), there
is also the Magadh Express. In fact, it runs combined with the
Vikramshila for part of the way as Magadh-Vikramshila Exp.
NOt to forget Vaishali Express, and Kashi-Vishwanath Exp.
The quaintest name I've heard is for a train on the ER: probably the
only named passenger on the IR: it starts from Howrah, and is called the
Mayurakshi Fast Passenger.
There used to be another stopping passenger on the 2'
Gwalior-SheopurKalan line, quaintly named Kanno kunwari Link Express.

Nitin Joshi wrote:
> Maybe you are right.
> Back to the issue, I always felt that "Capital Express" had something
> to do
> with the Maurya Empire. Probably Vikramshila was the capital of
> Chandra Gupta
> Maurya hence "Capital Express". There also used to be a train which
> runs/ran
> under the name "Vikramshila Express"!
> Am I making a fool of myself???????
> Nitin Joshi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Muhammed Khan
> To: Nitin Joshi
> Sent: 29.August.99 21:24
> Subject: Re: Odd names
> Nitin:
> Please check 'Das Capital' was not written by Kautilya but,
> if I am not mistaken, by hitler.
> Muhammed
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Nitin Joshi
> To: Apurva Bahadur ; IRFCA
> Sent: Sunday, August 29, 1999 12:16 PM
> Subject: Odd names
> I think that the name Capital Express was probably
> derived from Kautilya's book
> "Das Capitol" who was the administrator during the
> time of Chandragupta Maurya,
> part of the Maurya Empire - which I think I was
> located somewhere in Bihar. There
> Also used to be a train that ran or runs as the
> Maurya Express.
> I could be totally wrong on the above, let me know
> Nitin Joshi
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Apurva Bahadur
> Sent: 28.August.99 05:35
> Subject: Re: Odd names
> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> > Also why is 3245/46 Katihar - Danapur
> train called as Capitol
> > express where it does not come near
> any capitol of neither the
> > state or the country ?
> Sorry about the spelling mistake, in
> both case the correct
> spelling is 'capital'.

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: Questions on IR trivia

Date: 29 Aug 1999 21:34:49 -0500

> Delhi Junction has 24 platforms (more coming up) and New Delhi station
> 14(8 of which can accomodate a 24 coach rake). Can anything beat that?
> Harsh

I thought they only had 19 platforms. (The erstwhile MG platforms
were 17-19, I believe.)

Where do they have space for more platforms.

Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA.
Home Page: <A HREF=""></A>

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: WCAG 1s at Bina

Date: 29 Aug 1999 22:20:13 -0500

>I also saw 2 WCAG 1 at Vasai station on 20/8/99 at 2.00 pm. The nos of
>the locos were 21970 and 21971. 21971 departed at 13.45 hrs whilst I
>waiting for my local to Mumbai, as the loco was carrying huge container
>freight. At last the deadly beasts like WCG's era has ended !

Where was the BHEL builder plate installed? I think I saw the CLW plate
the end corners where it is usuall installed. But I could be wrong as my
train was doing nearly 100 Kmph when I spotted these locos. The loco No.
not painted on the ends. They were running light in pair and were
for the road when we overtook them.

The shells are built by CLW but BHEL does have its own body for the
industriel diesel-electric that it makes.



Subject: Another slower one....

Date: 29 Aug 1999 22:55:23 -0500


This is what my brother has to say, of the Bokoro-Allepy Exp. of which a
recent tragedy was averted.



From: Abhijeet Joshi <
Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 21:27:36 PDT
Subject: Re: Chennai-trains...

The Bokaro-Allepey express is a well known train to me 'coz my class
in XLRI who came from Kerala used to take that train and it was the
journey to Jamshedpur...about 48 hrs...can you imagine??


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From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 29 Aug 1999 23:07:59 -0500

Dear Apurva and gang,

I have seen quite some mails on these two names, all of them
concentrating on
the Danapur - Katihar Capital Express.

My two bits. The Amaravathi Express (note the extra 'a' and the 'h')
rean between Guntur and Hubli in its MG avatar. Amaravathi is a pilgrim
on the banks of the Krishna very close to Guntur. The MG Amaravathi
Express was
the top of the line train on the Guntakal Hubli route. How the mighty
fallen, and more importantly lost identity. Incidentally this train has
to do with Amravati in Maharashtra.

The Danapur - Katihar Capital Express is named such only because it is
really a
Patna - Barauni train. Must be too much of problems with stabling at
PNBE, which
is why we also have a Danapur - Howrah Express.



P.S.: I would welcome any of the gang to let me know what they think are
illogical names. Maybe we can work them out.

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Turntable fears for WDG4

Date: 29 Aug 1999 23:21:24 -0500

Ditto here Shankar.
Call it arrogance but I can already visualise the drivers throwing up
arms to drive these locos long hood (if you call it that) leading at
above 75 Kmph. Even lower if you consider that they will have to work on
Ghats most of the time.

I really wonder if any drivers were really consulted or given hands on
trials on the locos before the deal was finalised with bi-directional

Iam yet to meet one driver who really enjoys driving long hood leading.
is certainly good as long as you are footplating but that's it. Mind you
crew has no chance whatsoever in case of a collision whatever face they
be driving as the cab is the weakest link in the whole loco.

Yesterday I came by the Swarna Shatabdi and the Surdarji driver saheb
very annoyed that he had to drive long hood leading at night. Normally
loco is turned but it was not done yesterday. The train departed
right time and arrived Delhi 1 hour late. Barely we hit 100 Kmph on a
of occasions. Far too many cautions enroute. The long hood is also a
driving slow speeds than on fast when there is little you can do to


-----Original Message-----
From: S.Shankar <
To: <
Cc: HVC < <
Date: Saturday, August 21, 1999 9:22 AM
Subject: Re: Turntable fears for WDG4

>Don't you think that the lengthening of the engine is all the more
>reason to try and have a cab at the other end? Longer the long hood,
>more uncomfortable it is to drive, and poorer the lookout, bay windows
>or no bay windows. May be acceptable as long as speeds are low, but
>speeds and curved track, its downright dangerous.
>I mean, how much sense does it make to have an engine that is nice to
>drive for 50% of the time, and absolute hell to drive the other way.
>And believe me, the GT Mac has those wings on the side for the radiator
>fans, and despite the bay windows, will not be fun to drive at all with
>the long hood leading.
>Was the GT Mac an off the shelf purchase with minor changes to suit the
>IR? GM I thought usually build as per the customers' specifications.
>If you visit Larry Russell's site (he is one of our more knowledgeable
>members) you will see that EMD has built dual cab machines for quite a
>few railways worldwide:
><A HREF=""></A>
>How did you manage a dual cab design with the WDP/1?
>Point is, when the attempt is to change the age old uncomfortable
>designs for the 1950s with one long and one short hood, then why
>to something that is equally bad if not worse when inducting new
>One solution would be to have two articulated engines permanently
>coupled back to back, of say 2000 hp each, as is the case with some of
>the older engines on the Swedish Railways. Of course, this would be
>going back in technology, and would mean double the cost! Hence not
>Unless GM is twisting our arm, I'm sure they can develop a dual cab
>design as per our requirements.
>With IR speeds going up and up, dual cab will ensure maximum safety.
>Pakistan Railways is having problems with their new equally
>uncomfortable new diesels from AdTranz.
>Although so called 'bi-directional', the new beasts are as bad as the
>GTMac. I believe the drivers absolutely refuse to drive long hood
>leading. PR is now considering turning the engines round each time.
> wrote:
>> General Motors did not really have any design of a twin cab loco. In
in their entire history they have made only one twin cab design.
>> The GT46MAC (WDG4) is based on the SD70MAC design. The SD70 was a
locomotive, since the envelope (maximum moving dimensions) allowed on
American Railroads are quite liberal. When they set about designing the
GT46MAC, they had to spread the equipment along the length of the
to reduce the height. The locomotive thus became rather long and their
no possibility of adding another cab at the other end.
>> It is true that the WDG4's will be used for freight operations only,
least to start with. But since their hauling power is almost twice that
WDM2's, even though the horsepower is not doubled (thanks to its
microprocessor based wheel slip control), they will not be used in MU
>> ---- you wrote:
>> > Thank you for the detailed info. Could you please clarify still why
>> > design of cab was choosen over `cab at both ends'. Iam sure that
>> > driver viewpoint is still the best and now that we have our
>> > and experience of the same with the WDP2s.
>> >
>> > Did it have a big price implication tag from GM?
>> >
>> > Harsh
>> >
>> > P.S. It is clear that the WDG4s will be mostly on freight haul
>> > they will never exceed 75 Kmph so running long hood should not be
of a
>> > problem actually.
>> > Also these may be frequently MUed also so both ends can be short
>> > leading there.
>> > Still I would like to know why a universal cab design was preferred
over two
>> > cab.
>> >
>> >
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Get your free email from AltaVista at <A HREF=""></A>

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Questions on IR trivia

Date: 30 Aug 1999 00:22:48 -0500

Already the North end of Delhi Jn. which was the former steam loco shed
3 platforms. In fact to decongest the main entrance side, the local
users(Saharanpur, Shamli, Panipat etc.) are now encouraged to use the
lothian bridge side gate near Kashmere Gate although this is very long
of 1.5 Km for those taking Rewari bound trains. More platforms will be
when the old Coaching Depot site is cleared. When MG is cleared from
more platforms will be required as DSR has only 3.


-----Original Message-----
From: Dheeraj Sanghi <
To: <
Cc: <
Date: Monday, August 30, 1999 8:38 PM
Subject: Re: Questions on IR trivia

>> Delhi Junction has 24 platforms (more coming up) and New Delhi
>> 14(8 of which can accomodate a 24 coach rake). Can anything beat
>> Harsh
>I thought they only had 19 platforms. (The erstwhile MG platforms
>were 17-19, I believe.)
>Where do they have space for more platforms.
>Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638 (Off)
>Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
>Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413 (Fax)
>Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA.
>Home Page: <A HREF=""></A>


Subject: Patna-Kurla.....

Date: 30 Aug 1999 00:27:49 -0500


Today's Times Of India, Mumbai has a notice published by Eastern

Introduction of Patna-Kurla Express.

2141 DN / 2142 UP will run between Patna & Kurla.

2141 will leave Kurla on Sunday & Tuesday. And 2142 will leave Patna on
Tuesday & Thursday. It will have 2nd AC, 3rd AC & sleeper class

2141 DN 2142 UP
06.00 a Patna d 13.00

01.45 d Mughalsarai a 16.25
01.25 a d 16.45

15.55 d Jabalpur a 01.30
15.45 a d 01.40

23.30 d Lokmanya Terminus a 19.30

I am not too sure , if this is a new or existing train. But shall look
into CR TT , once back home in the evening.



From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Odd names and humour to add!

Date: 30 Aug 1999 01:04:55 -0500

> Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 23:55:40 +0100
> From: Iain A Fraser <
> To: Muhammed Khan <
> Cc: Nitin Joshi < IRFCA
> Subject: Re: Odd names

> Hi
> Wasn't "Das Kapital" written by Karl Marx ??
> Iain
> Aerolite Booktraders (UK)
That's right. And to make a potpourri of things, did the name
"Capital Express" originate after reading the works of Marx? How does
"Capital Express" mix-up with "Das Kapital"? And to add more humour
into this issue lets safely surmise that Herr Karl Marx was a railway
fan! (With all due respect and no harm intended to the memory of Karl


From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Re: Train names, Queens and Godesses.

Date: 30 Aug 1999 01:27:32 -0500


Kudal maybe because the station just before Madurai Junction is Kudal



From: Suresh Mutuswami <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 30 Aug 1999 02:07:50 -0500

On Mon, 30 Aug 1999 raymond/ wrote:

> The Danapur - Katihar Capital Express is named such only because it is
really a
> Patna - Barauni train. Must be too much of problems with stabling at
PNBE, which
> is why we also have a Danapur - Howrah Express.
> Regards
> Raymond

I think that's correct. I also remember being told (I think by Sankaran
Kumar, also a participant on this list) that it was called the "Capital
Express" because the Hindi equivalent, viz. "Rajdhani Express" could not
be used for obvious reasons.

Incidentally, why is the erstwhile Jammu Tawi-Chennai Janata Express now
called "Andaman Express"? And what about trains like "Gondwana Express"
and "Mahamaya Express"?

On the issue of train names, one thing that strikes me is the way naming
conventions have changed when we compare the pre-Independence and
post-Independence eras. I am guessing (I have no proof) that names in
pre-Independence era was controlled (mostly) by the British and
their "imagination" of India: hence names like Flying Ranee, Deccan
(reflecting their idea of India as a land of "exotic" kings and queens)
and also "Grand Trunk Express," "Frontier Mail," "Upper India Express,"
"Southern Express" (which reflects their geographical conception of
India). Contrast this with some of the post-Independence names like
"Rajdhani Express," the "Janata Express" and so on.

Of course, there are exceptions, one being the "Coromandel Express"
sounds (at least to me) like a British-inspired name.

Anand Krishnan has also mentioned the "Boat Mail." Prior to the 1966
cyclone which destroyed a part of the island of Rameshwaram (the area
around Dhanushkodi), the "Boat Mail" used to travel upto Dhanushkodi to
connect with the steamer to Sri Lanka. I believe the train travelled
right upto the pier from where the passengers could step off directly
the boat. After 1966, this was no longer possible, though it was still
possible to book a train ticket from Madras Egmore to Colombo (covering
travel to Rameshwaram, the boat passage and then travel (by Talaimannar
Mail?) to Colombo). As late as 1984, I remember seeing a ticket counter
at the Madras Egmore station labelled "Colombo."


From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Welcome Dr.Arora and some SR news was Re: An engine.....

Date: 30 Aug 1999 02:20:21 -0500

Hi all,
A very very warm welcome to you Dr.Arora. Well now we are getting

some really experienced hands onto our list. Looking forward to some
interesting mails on Dr.Arora's experience as a motorman. Welcome again

Now for some news from SR. It was'nt an accident but an oversight that
happened on Friday last. Surprisingly this news comes when all of us
been talking about Bokaro-Allepey express. I found this news item on 2
online Tamil newspapers. The Bokaro-Allepey express that had arrived
Bokaro was late on Friday. After the halt at Chennai it departed from
Chennai supposedly to Allepey. But what was in store for all the
was something very shocking when they found themselves going again
Gudur. THe signal at Korukkupet was switched on red immediately and the
train was brought back to Basin Bridge and then re-routed towards
Now the cabin man was suspended immediately. The driver who inspite of
knowing that it was the wrong line and continued to keep the train in
was asked to go off duty that day along with the guard and a new set of
drivers and guard were assigned for the train. ultimately the train was
delayed for an additional 2 hours and EMU traffic on the GDR line was
disrupted for an hour.

Kind regards,

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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: CLAT - PNBE superfast

Date: 30 Aug 1999 02:21:20 -0500

Gang !

An Eastern Rail advert in the TOI today announces the new
2141/2142 Kurla Terminus to Patna superfast biweekly express.
The inaugural run would be on the 31st Aug 99 at CLAT ( I
think even the station code has been changed to LTT) while the
first run from PNBE would be on the 2nd Sept 99. The rake has
Sleeper class, 2 AC and 3 AC.
Of 2141 Dn.
CLAT (Sun&Tue): 2330 dep
Jabalpur: 1545/1555
Mughalsarai: 0125/0145
Patna: 0600 arr.

Timings of 2142 Up
PNBE: (Tue and Thurs) 1300 dep
MGS: 1625/1645
JBP: 0130/0140
CLAT: 1930 arr

As per the CR tt this train has NO stops from CLAT to JBP !
This is a 991 Kms run, of course this is not possible, but
even a stop at Itarsi (to change traction to Diesel) is not
Who needs such hyper efficient trains ? To Patna ?

Such is the regard for this train that although this is a CR
train, it is ER who has released the ad in the Mumbai edition.


From: John Lacey <>

Subject: Re: railway junction with maximum fan-out - FURTHER CLARIFICATIONS

Date: 30 Aug 1999 02:32:03 -0500

Mike Brooker wrote:

> Yes, the Vrindavan line does carry passengers. On Jan. 3, 1996 I took
a MG
> train between Vrindavan and Mathura. From Krishna Janmasthan station,
> was only a short walk to the Krishna Janmabhumi temple, on the site
> Lord Krishna is said to have been born. I am remembering it as we
come to
> the celebration of Janmashtami (Krishna's birthday) on Sept. 2. Hari

I cannot resist sharing the story of my visit to Mathura in December
1980. I had travelled on the Toofan Express from Delhi ( WP 7713) and as
I left the BG platform I was accosted by an enthusiastic tout:
" You want Lord Krishna's Birthplace? "
" No"
" You want----------------Temple? "
" No"
Enlightenment dawned, and he beamed even more enthusiastically,
" Ah, you want metre gauge locomotive depot."

Alas no, for I did not know then that the Vrindavan branch trains were
worked by NER P class 4-6-0s.

John Lacey

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: Rail safety (Times of India)

Date: 30 Aug 1999 02:43:48 -0500

Hi Tony,
       As a foundation Murdoch-hater (guess whose papers we have a choice of in Brisbane?) I can't agree this time, despite the obvious need for attention to road accidents as well.
    I did some work on Integral Coach Factory almost 20 years ago now, and was very impressed with ICF itself, the highly successful collaboration with the Swiss (the firm involved was Swiss Car & Elevator [Schlieren] and they were meticulous in carrying out their obligations) and the far-sighted design and planning process. What was less satisfactory was internal communication within Railways, especially with the owning Railways.
     You probably remember that corrosion was an ongoing problem with the ICF coaches. Although one high-ranking engineer told me that the corrosion problem was "completely unforeseen", there was in fact a report (one of several on the ICF project) entirely devoted to the corrosion problem in all-steel integral coaching stock. It was issued PRIOR to the finalisation of the project and the coach design. Furthermore, ICF itself issued instructions and made progressive design modifications to mitigate the effects.
      There were design problems -- some unforeseen --  but the biggest single problem was simply the failure of owning railways to implement proper maintenance procedures and stick to them. The culmination was the breaking in half of an early ICF carriage at Raichur in 1962; fortunately the carriage was on its way to overhaul and was being hauled empty in a freight train at the time.
       With hindsight, I feel that I should have emphasised the communication/implementation problems far more, as they have grown progressively more serious. I hesitate to say "in direct proportion to political interference," but the fact remains that proper engineering standards are being neglected in favour of political considerations, labour featherbedding, and other undesirable practices. The Railway Safety Review Committee is quite right: there's plenty of sage advice around, but what's needed is a little determination.
            Cheers
                  Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Bailey < <
To: Mike Brooker < < Indian Railway Fan Club < <
Date: 29 August 1999 9:53
Subject: Re: Rail safety (Times of India)

I bet it is still far more dangerous to cross the road in India!
This is starting to sound more like Rupert Murdoch has taken over the Indian Press.
Tony Bailey
Mercury World Travel
Mercury Travel Books <

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Brooker < <

The following item is from today's Times of India:
Pills aplenty, patient reluctant

Vinay Pandey

NEW DELHI: Why have trains become an unsafe mode of travel?

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Odd names and humour to add!

Date: 30 Aug 1999 03:00:32 -0500

Capital Express = Das Kapital = Le Capitole = Rajdhani Express?


From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: railway junction with maximum fan-out - FURTHER CLARIFICATIONS

Date: 30 Aug 1999 03:32:41 -0500

I wrote:
> "S.SRINIVAS" said:
> > wrote:
> > > 6 BATHINDA
> > > 7 MATHURA
> > > So, the winner is Mathura. My definition of a junction
> > > is very rigorous and may not agree with IR's. If a line goes
> > > A Jn. - B (minor station) - C etc.
> > > and another goes
> > > A Jn. - B (minor station) - D etc.
> > > I take B to be the junction, not A.
> > > > You must consider Bhatinda Jn. as the winner which has six
> > > > directions in which rly. tracks go.
> > > > all of them from Bhatinda junction itself !!
> > >
> > > Actually, MATHURA has seven... :-)
> > >
> > > You missed my original mail, and Apurva snipped the part after
> > > 7 Lines from Mathura Jn.:
> Vrindavan - Masani - Krishna Janmasthan - Mathura Jn.
> are all the stations on the Mathura-Vrindavan line
>(and it carries passengers, trains listed in
>Bradshaws). As Krishna Janmasthan does not lie on any
>other line (per 3 Bradshaws), any branching must occur
>between Mathura Jn. and Krishna Janmasthan - so (per
>my definition) it counts as a fan-out from Mathura....

I must "amend myself".. ;)

While all the above re the Vrindavan line is correct, when I
double-checked the line from Mathura Jn. to Kaman / Alwar Jn., I found
that it only branches off from the main line to Delhi --after--
Bhuteshwar (the next station). So, it cannot be counted, and Mathura
is duly reduced to six!

Current standings (all except Mathura & Bathinda subject to revision):-

Bathinda Jn. 6
Mathura Jn. 6
Naihati Jn. 6
Allahabad Jn. 5
Anand Jn. 5
Bangarapet Jn. 5
Bareilly Jn. 5
Chandrapura Jn. 5
Dabhoi Jn. 5
Dindigul Jn. 5
Diva Jn. 5
Guntakal Jn. 5
Jalandhar City 5
Katihar Jn. 5
Katni Jn. 5
Lucknow Jn. 5
Mahesana Jn. 5
Moradabad Jn. 5
Panvel Jn. 5
Rewari Jn. 5
Sadar Bazar Jn. 5
Siliguri Jn. 5
Varanasi Jn. 5
Vijayawada Jn. 5
Villupuram Jn. 5
Zafarabad Jn. 5

I would really appreciate some help with station "positioning" (a) in
the Chandrapura Jn. area, where I can make no sense of the Bradshaws;
(b) In the Calcutta area. Please, any volunteers with local or
E.R./S.E.R. knowledge?

Regards to all

L Webber

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From: lwebber <>

Subject: Total Number of Stations on Indian Railways? WHOLE BRADSHAW SCANNED.

Date: 30 Aug 1999 03:37:48 -0500

I have scanned in the whole Bradshaw, supplemented by regional TTs and
maps. I am missing suburban stations for all metropolises other than
Mumbai (can anyone help?)

I am now "cleaning up" and removing spurious duplicates, multiple-choice
type spellings (an IR speciality!) and scan-errors.

Currently, the total station count is 7,950....

Does this sound high? Low?

I will have more stats later.

Regards to all

L Webber

Get free personalized email at
<A HREF=""></A>

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Odd names and humour to add!

Date: 30 Aug 1999 06:02:50 -0500

VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
> Capital Express = Das Kapital = Le Capitole = Rajdhani Express?
> Viraf.

Back in 1968 when the final trials of what was to become the Calcutta
Rajdhani Express were being concluded, the yet to be introduced train
was often referred to as "Capital Express". Of course when it was
introduced, it was called the "Rajdhani Express".


From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Website of East Central Rly

Date: 30 Aug 1999 06:11:53 -0500

Check this out - homing to Hajipur !
<A HREF=""></A>