IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 7221 - 7240
From: Jishnu Mukerji <>
Subject: Re: Accident Management Ideas
Date: 23 Jul 1999 08:09:49 -0500
Jayant S wrote:
.....
> Suppose we consider railway operation as an
> integrated system, and broadly apply the automotive
> model (which is well-defined in the industry), we get:
>
> Active Safety (not in order of importance):
> 1. Rolling stock performance standards
> 2. Track standards
> 3. Crew/personnel performance standards
> 4. Communications: routine and emergency
>
> Passive Safety:
> 1. Crash energy absorption zones (the car industry
> calls them "crumple zones"), strategically distributed.
> 2. Coach interiors designed to prevent collision of
> occupants with hard objects.
> 3. Couplings designed to minimise train parting
> following derailment.
> 4. Escape routes.
>
> If all these factors are weighted and co-ordinated
> during design, they could lead to a considerably reduced
>
......
I think there is a general problem of faithful execution of a plan in IR
and other operations in India. There is also significant problem of the
lack of oversight by an independant safety body. I may be wrong about
this, but it seems to me that IR or some subsidiary thereof is
responsible for planning, execution, and investigation of failures in
execution, all of them. This sort of incestuous setup together with
endless interference from the political side of the government, I think
has a tendency to lead to lack of oversight and improper prioritization
of safety related issues. For example, when the minister thinks that
coversion to BG is politically important, resources get diverted from
safety critical projects to gauge conversion. Accident investigations
seem to be such a close door activity that complete accident
investigation report from a professional accident investigation team
seem to be hard to come by, as for example one gets to see from NTSB in
the USA. Even from the relatively incomplete accident investigation
reports that one gets to see, the few useful and cogent recommendation
that come out are seldom followed through and there seems to be no one
around to make an issue of it ever. So, unless these process and
organizational outages are addressed, I am very sceptical that anything
will improve by merely writing sets of better rules and standards on
pieces of paper.
This is not to say the that nothing should be done at all, and
certainly, the passive safety items enunciated above would be worth
addressing. Some of them actually already exist in the design of
integral coaches e.g. crumple zones. Technology is known to exist for
tightlock couplers (as is mandated for passenger operation by the FRA in
the USA) but costs resources to deploy. A good accident followup study
focusing on what sort of injuries were caused by which interior fixture
under what circumstances needs to be done as part of accident
investigations, haven't seen one of those, but then I must admit I
haven't looked as closely as I do here in the USA. Are NTSB-like
comprehensive accident reports published in India as a followup to each
accident, say about 12 to 18 months after each accident?
Regards and Thanks,
Jishnu.
--
Jishnu
From: FyffesFL <>
Subject: Re: Argentinian 5'6" gauge
Date: 23 Jul 1999 08:33:00 -0500
Sorry, gentlemen, Brazil's main network is 5' 3" inch gauge - no-one is
sure
why, since their first railway WAS 5' 6"
Paraguay's main line was also 5'6'' gauge until 1912, when it was
converted
to standard to allow through running to Buenos Aires over the Argentine
standard gauge lines. Nowadays Paraguayan s.g. trains also can run into
Uruguay as well.
Spain and Portugal are actually six Castilian feet, fractionally wider
than
66"
The military railway at the siege of Sebastopol, called the Grand
Crimean
Central Railway, was never intended to be permanent, and was nowhere
near
any Russian line existing at that time. Any material the army bought for
it
would have been intended for eventual commercial sale. I will look up
some
old British Overseas Railways Historical Trust articles on the subject
of why
Arrgentina's first line was broad gauge, and transcribe them if anyone
is
interested.
Regards to all
Richard Yudin
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>
Subject: Re: Lucknow
Date: 23 Jul 1999 09:18:53 -0500
This mail has some substance to it although re-routing of the
present Rajdhani via Gaya is not the best solution, as some
of you have already noted. Now that Patna has an
exclusive biweekly Rajdhani from Delhi and a tri-weekly
Rajdhani to Guwahati, the present Hwh. Raj via Patna
could be rerouted via LKO-VNS-Gaya.
As far as Patna to Howrah is concerned, a Shatabdi
service would be more appropriate and makes sense
since Asansol-Howrah is a high-speed section.
One of my fantasy trains is, in fact, a Rajdhani via
Kanpur-LKO-(Sultanpur)-VNS-MGS-Gaya
with halts at Kanpur, Lucknow, Varanasi,
MGS (technical only), Dhanbad and Asansol. This
would be about 2 hrs. slower than the one via Gaya
in both the directions which means that
the Hwh-Delhi train would be atleast an hour
FASTER than the present Raj via Patna.
Here the pros and cons for re-routing the present Raj
(via Patna) to touch LKO and skip Patna
Pros - Up train is an hour faster
LKO and VNS connected by fast Rajdhani service to Delhi and
Howrah
If the proposal to electrify LKO-VNS-MGS via Sultanpur is
approved, then
loco changeovers at Kanpur and MGS will be a temporaryt
affair.
In fact, it can skip MGS assuming that VNS can handle crew
changes.
Cons - Patna loses a biweekly Rajdhani connection to Delhi (so what!!)
connection to Howrah can be made-up by Shatabdi - when one
can have
countless, bogus Shatabdis from Delhi, why not a genuine
Shatabdi between
Patna and Howrah that can travel at 130 kmph. between
Asansol-Howrah.
Madhupur loses Rajdhani connection to Delhi and Howrah (so
what!!)
Of course, this is not going to happen as long Nitish Kumar is in
office.
Why isn't it surprising that all geniune superfast trains from LKO head
towards
Delhi - Shatabdi, Vaishali, Gomti. Pushpak Exp. to Mumbai can easily be
speeded
up by 1.5 - 2 hours under present track conditions. Himgiri Exp. used
to
provice a fast connection to Howrah but this has been downgraded beyond
repair.
Vijay
>
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>
Subject: Re: Need info from timetables
Date: 23 Jul 1999 09:36:18 -0500
>-----Original Message-----
>From: hvc [SMTP:hvc@vsnl.email
>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 3:18 AM
>To: Vijay Balasubramanian; irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Need info from timetables
>
>
>>CR
>>- Does the 2065/2066 Ratnagiri Exp. halt at Nasik Rd. and Bhusaval?
>>When does the 2066 Exp. reach Bhusaval?
>
>
>What train is this please. It is not clear.
>
>This is the upgraded version of the 1065/1066 triweekly Ratnagiri Exp.
>between Kurla and Varanasi.
>This conversion to superfast happened sometime last November.
>
>Vijay
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>
Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR
Date: 23 Jul 1999 09:42:36 -0500
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Anand Krishnan [SMTP:krish_nand@hotmail.email
>Sent: Thursday, July 22, 1999 5:19 AM
>To: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR
>
>Hi all,
> Great initiation Vijay . Its a very interesting topic.
>
>>Of course, I am assuming that Erode is still the loco.
>>changeover point. Has this recently been shifted to
>>Coimbatore or Palghat?
> Talks that the electrification till EKM will be commissioned by
>December prompts me to infer that Kerala/NZM-EKM/HimSagar expresses
will
>easily be the trains to have a longest electric haul.
>
>>by TN/GT/Andaman Exps. - about 2190 km.
>>(Chennai Rajdhani - 2185)
> I am hearing this Andaman exp. for the first time. Which train
has
>been renamed like this ?
>
The Chennai - Jammu Tawi exp. has been renamed the Andaman exp.
>
>>It would be interesting to find out the longest run with the same
>>electric loco.
>
Can we safely conclude that Delhi-Chennai is the longest continuous haul
by the same electric loco.?
>Vijay
From: S Pai <>
Subject: Re: Fuel consumption
Date: 23 Jul 1999 18:42:33 -0500
A minor clarification to what Sunil wrote, to match units and
dimensions:
> the best way to measure the engine efficiency is in terms of
gms/bhp-hr,
> i.e. grams of fuel per brake-horsepower.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ gms per brake-horsepower-hour
Jayant wrote:
> Of course, if you mean fuel consumption per passenger, then there is
no
> contest: railroads are by far the most efficient land transport system
> ever devised.
Hmm... I wonder if the efficiency is better than that of a cyclist
whizzing by on a modern bicycle in top gear on a good road? :-) I'm
kidding, but it would be interesting to get a back-of-the-envelope
computation for bicycles -- I don't know the efficiency of converting
the
calorific content of food to mechanical action by human muscles.
--Satish
From: Mike Brooker <>
Subject: Re: Accident Management Ideas
Date: 23 Jul 1999 19:17:51 -0500
>>...He said that he was saved because he was awake and could hold on to
>> whatever he could.
>
>Obviously, people are incurring injuries when they are flung
>around inside a tumbling coach, and hit hard objects within it.
>We urgently need major rethinking on interior design of
>passenger stock if we intend to have faster, heavier trains !
>
>Comments, anyone ?
>
How about installing seat belts in the coaches?
Mike
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: Accident Management Ideas
Date: 23 Jul 1999 20:57:14 -0500
Mike Brooker wrote:
> How about installing seat belts in the coaches?
Opens up the issue of seat restraints in mass
transport vehicles. Aircraft have them, as do
some European buses, but I haven't yet heard of
restraints on trains anywhere.
For a start, at least, some method for strapping
yourself into a sleeping berth could help reduce
injuries even with minor accidents, I imagine.
--
JS
--
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: Bicycle vs Locomotive
Date: 23 Jul 1999 21:11:16 -0500
Satish wrote:
> Hmm... I wonder if the efficiency is better than that of a cyclist
> whizzing by on a modern bicycle in top gear on a good road? :-)
Hmmm....good question (I use a bicycle quite often myself).
Some available info on the Web regarding power consumption
on a bicycle is at:
<A HREF="http://www.krs.hia.no/~stephens/aero.htm">http://www.krs.hia.no/~stephens/aero.htm</A>
which has some benchmarks for power developed
by a cyclist, and
<A HREF="http://www.halcyon.com/gasman/energy.htm">http://www.halcyon.com/gasman/energy.htm</A>
which talks about the energy requirements for
a cyclist.
Can anyone do a rough calculation on this and
really determine whether rail or bicycle is
more energy efficient: by looking at the distance
moved per person against the energy consumption
per second (or any other meaningful ratio) ?
We could, for the moment, disregard fuel
costs (food vs diesel), and infrastructure
costs (bike/road vs rolling stock/track.
--
JS
--
From: Sunil Bajpai <>
Subject: Re: Fuel consumption
Date: 24 Jul 1999 01:17:15 -0500
Thanks for correcting the error in dimensions, Satish!
During a conference on emission control, I heard a speaker make a
startling
claim. He said the carbon-dioxide that would be produced if the people
in
the auditorium walked to a nearby destination would be more than what
would
be produced if they used a modern coach!
Didn't verify the claim but, if true, it would imply that walking--as
opposed to travelling by coach--causes build-up of the greenhouse gas
called
CO2.
It would be interesting to see the back-of-envelope estimate you
suggest.
Anybody got clues?
Sunil
-----Original Message-----
From: S Pai <s_pai@bigfoot.email
To: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
Date: 24 July 1999 07:27
Subject: Re: Fuel consumption
>
>A minor clarification to what Sunil wrote, to match units and
dimensions:
>
>> the best way to measure the engine efficiency is in terms of
gms/bhp-hr,
>> i.e. grams of fuel per brake-horsepower.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ gms per
brake-horsepower-hour
>
>Jayant wrote:
>
>> Of course, if you mean fuel consumption per passenger, then there is
no
>> contest: railroads are by far the most efficient land transport
system
>> ever devised.
>
>Hmm... I wonder if the efficiency is better than that of a cyclist
>whizzing by on a modern bicycle in top gear on a good road? :-) I'm
>kidding, but it would be interesting to get a back-of-the-envelope
>computation for bicycles -- I don't know the efficiency of converting
the
>calorific content of food to mechanical action by human muscles.
>
>--Satish
>
>
>
From: poras p.saklatwalla <>
Subject: MUMBAI CALCUTTA MAIL VIA ALLAHABAD
Date: 24 Jul 1999 02:36:07 -0500
Hi Gang,
I am back ! who says the WCM SERIES OF LOCOS HAVE GONE ? If you are
lucky train spotter like me then here it is ! In the lunch time today I
had nothing to eat, so I thought of going to the Vikhroli level crossing
gate and as soon as I reached I heard the cute horn of the WCM 2 pulling
the CALCUTTA MAIL VIA ALLAHABAD. The horn went on till the loco crossed
the level crossing gate. The above train has a first class (2coaches)
one
Ac first, ( mind you no composite ) and a couple of Ac 2 tiers. No 3ac
coach ! Which is the faster mail and more popular one ? the one via
Nagpur or the Allahabad ? Passengers on board from the eastern region
your opinion please.
Which is the fastest Rajdhani express in the country from a host of Raj
that run !
My vote goes to Calcutta Rajdhani via Gaya (2301/2302) People on board
your opinion pls.
The shortest distance run for Rajdhani Exp - I believe it is the Jammu
Tawi Rajdhani. There is no Raj for Chandigarh though it is the capital
of
3 states but then the dist is too small and it has 2 shatabdis and v v
soon will have one Swarna Shatabdi Express.
These days I am doing a lot of train spotting and there is no better
place
in Mumbai than the fly over at Borivali. Go there at around 5.15 and at
approx 5.25 you will see the Raj to NDLS go pass. It is the best spot
for
photography, without Railway police or any other official troubling
you.
More reports of train spotting will be given. This evening I am off to
Igatpuri with wife and parents. While they enjoy the rains there, I
will
take them to such a place where I can see trains come in and go out of
Igatpuri. Report on Monday. Bye !
PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237
From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>
Subject: Re: Argentinian 5'6" gauge
Date: 24 Jul 1999 03:38:24 -0500
Dear Richard (and Doug),
That has the amusing outcome that the point I was trying to make
stands, despite my slip about the present gauge situation in Brazil
(which I
should have remembered, too!)
I think we'd all be fascinated to know what the BORHT archives can
tell us about this, so please do pursue it. And what WAS the gauge of
the
Sevastopol line?
A point which comes to mind is that the choice of BG for India was
influenced by a fear that trains could be blown over in gales; did
similar
fears influence the choice of gauge for the pampa? Mind you, that still
won't explain Portugal, but it might apply to Spain!
Over to you!
Cheers
Ken Walker
-----Original Message-----
From: FyffesFL@aol.email <FyffesFL@aol.email
To: kjw_meh@powerup.email <kjw_meh@powerup.email iti@vsnl.email
<iti@vsnl.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 23 July 1999 3:40
Subject: Re: Argentinian 5'6" gauge
>Sorry, gentlemen, Brazil's main network is 5' 3" inch gauge - no-one
is
sure
>why, since their first railway WAS 5' 6"
>Paraguay's main line was also 5'6'' gauge until 1912, when it was
converted
>to standard to allow through running to Buenos Aires over the Argentine
>standard gauge lines. Nowadays Paraguayan s.g. trains also can run into
>Uruguay as well.
>
>Spain and Portugal are actually six Castilian feet, fractionally wider
than
>66"
>
>The military railway at the siege of Sebastopol, called the Grand
Crimean
>Central Railway, was never intended to be permanent, and was nowhere
near
>any Russian line existing at that time. Any material the army bought
for it
>would have been intended for eventual commercial sale. I will look up
some
>old British Overseas Railways Historical Trust articles on the subject
of
why
>Arrgentina's first line was broad gauge, and transcribe them if anyone
is
>interested.
>
>Regards to all
>
>Richard Yudin
>
From: David Trotter <>
Subject: Re: Argentinian 5'6" gauge and the Irish Gauge of 5'3"
Date: 24 Jul 1999 06:02:06 -0500
Hi Gang:
While it is hard to believe it, the reason for the presence of the 5ft
3"
gauge in the world of Brazil railways stems directly to events occurring
in
Ireland in the early 1800's.
. The story goes that as a result of a Commission decision chaired by a
Major General Pasley back in c.1837 the track gauge decreed for Ireland
main
line railways was 5ft 3in. The narrow gauge world of 3ft gauge
continued
unaffected as before. The commission had considered the existence of
two
gauges:( the 4ft 8 1/2" ,the Dublin and Kingstown Railway and the 6ft
2",
the Ulster Railway ) and the outcome was a compromise which pleased no
one.
( other than the contractors of course).
Arising out of the decision two Irish railway engineers went out to both
South Australia and Brazil and perpetuated the anomaly in the track
gauge of
the railways they worked on.
The subject is still very relevant in 1999 as Irish railways continue to
suffer from the lack of flexibility and increased costs arising from the
specialist track gauge. It also rules out any benefits from through
running
via boat trains and the Channel Tunnel providing access to the
Continent.
On the preserved scene due to the now long past scrapping of steam
locomotives we continue to wrestle with the lack of suitable steam
locomotives. Consideration has been given to regauging from the
Finnish/Russian gauge of 5ft but as yet a suitable method has not been
found
which avoids exceeding the Irish loading gauge. Finnish steam locos
have an
additional cylinder on the outside of the external steam cylinders which
adds to the overall width measurement.
To finish: Doesn't the subject of railways expand one's horizons?
David T.
----- Original Message -----
From: <FyffesFL@aol.email
To: <kjw_meh@powerup.email <iti@vsnl.email
Cc: <irfca@cs.email
Sent: 23 July 1999 16:33
Subject: Re: Argentinian 5'6" gauge
> Sorry, gentlemen, Brazil's main network is 5' 3" inch gauge - no-one
is
sure
> why, since their first railway WAS 5' 6"
> Paraguay's main line was also 5'6'' gauge until 1912, when it was
converted
> to standard to allow through running to Buenos Aires over the
Argentine
> standard gauge lines. Nowadays Paraguayan s.g. trains also can run
into
> Uruguay as well.
>
> Spain and Portugal are actually six Castilian feet, fractionally wider
than
> 66"
>
> The military railway at the siege of Sebastopol, called the Grand
Crimean
> Central Railway, was never intended to be permanent, and was nowhere
near
> any Russian line existing at that time. Any material the army bought
for
it
> would have been intended for eventual commercial sale. I will look up
some
> old British Overseas Railways Historical Trust articles on the subject
of
why
> Arrgentina's first line was broad gauge, and transcribe them if anyone
is
> interested.
>
> Regards to all
>
> Richard Yudin
>
>
From: Anand Krishnan <>
Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR
Date: 24 Jul 1999 06:41:50 -0500
Hi all,
>Can we safely conclude that Delhi-Chennai is the longest continuous
haul
>by the same electric loco.?
It might not be. Kerala express has a electric loco till
Erode/Palghat. In that case our equation is wrong. What say the others
Kind regards,
Anand
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
From: Vdate <>
Subject: Re: Preventable accidents?
Date: 24 Jul 1999 08:10:39 -0500
Harsha write: "From my side I volunteer to submit the IRFCA reports to
the
CRS and follow
up with him [commissioner of Safety)." I could compile the IRFCA e-mail
pertaining to accidents in an electronic file and transmit it to you
periodically either electronically or as a hard copy. Please let me
know if
that would meet your needs.
From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>
Subject: [Fwd: Re: Accident..
Date: 24 Jul 1999 12:31:54 -0500
From: S Pai <>
Subject: Re: Fuel consumption
Date: 24 Jul 1999 18:45:44 -0500
> Didn't verify the claim but, if true, it would imply that walking--as
> opposed to travelling by coach--causes build-up of the greenhouse gas
> called CO2.
Hmm... Does this claim take into account the fact that people exhale
CO2
even when they are sitting in the coach? Besides, it's a bit of a bogus
comparison because there are large amounts of energy used and CO2 or
other
wastes released in setting up all the infrastructure for a motor-coach:
the
petroleum refinery, the mines, the manufacturing process for the coach.
> It would be interesting to see the back-of-envelope estimate you
suggest.
It should be simple enough. But what's a good figure for a locomotive's
horsepower under load, and how many persons constitute a typical load?
Let's consider a WDM2 pulling 15 standard II-3T coaches. Can I assume
100 persons per coach? (What's the official seating capacity, 72?)
What's
the power expended by the loco hauling such a load at, say, 60km/h? If
we
have a good figure for that, it should be straightforward to compare a
train to a bicycle. Any ideas, or guesstimates?
--Satish
From: Samit Roychoudhury <>
Subject: Re: MUMBAI CALCUTTA MAIL VIA ALLAHABAD
Date: 24 Jul 1999 21:32:10 -0500
dear poras,
the howrah - mumbai mail via nagpur is by far more popular. its better
maintained i believe and has a shorter run, and is on a better route. it
has
a first ac, two ac-2tiers (one of them is howrah - durg - howrah) and an
ac-3tier too. i think the first class has been removed.
samit
From: Marcelo Benoit <>
Subject: Re: Accident Management Ideas
Date: 24 Jul 1999 23:35:36 -0500
>Suppose we consider railway operation as an
>integrated system, and broadly apply the automotive
>model (which is well-defined in the industry), we get:
>
>Active Safety (not in order of importance):
>1. Rolling stock performance standards
>2. Track standards
>3. Crew/personnel performance standards
>4. Communications: routine and emergency
>
>Passive Safety:
>1. Crash energy absorption zones (the car industry
> calls them "crumple zones"), strategically distributed.
>2. Coach interiors designed to prevent collision of
> occupants with hard objects.
>3. Couplings designed to minimise train parting
> following derailment.
>4. Escape routes.
I found all this proposals interesting. One of the first actions that
MUST
be done NOW is start to use radio (yes, radios, these little boxes that
speak... perhaps the IR management don´t know it) for track-train
communication and brake van-locomotive in case of freight trains.
>For example, automotive crumple zone thinking has been
>successfully applied on the TGV trains which have space built
>into the nose of the leading unit, basically to absorb energy
>during grade crossing collisions. With our coach layouts,
>we could probably reduce death tolls in accidents if
>we made the ends of the coach absorb impact by deforming
>progressively, while keeping the passenger cell as rigid
>as possible. This will reduce telescoping considerably,
>and will absorb a lot of the kinetic energy from the
>train when it hits an obstacle. Cars are built that way,
>with designated crumple zones in the boot and the engine
>bay, and the passenger cell as rigid as possible.
The crumple zones are a good idea: they are in the new railcars for the
SNCF (single, double and triple) and of course in the latest TGV series.
Other thing is the building of better freight cars...
Regards,
Marcelo
ESTACION CENTRAL TERMINAL DE TRENES
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/index-7.html">http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/index-7.html</A>
From: Marcelo Benoit <>
Subject: Re: Argentinian 5'6" gauge
Date: 25 Jul 1999 00:47:46 -0500
Two little comments:
Spain and Portugal gauge is 1,668 m, not 1,676 m.
And about Paraguay, if someone could help...
>From: Ian Thomson[SMTP:ithomson@eclac.email
>Sent: 12 July 1999 02:29
> Mr. Jorge Jara, President of the F.C. Presidente Carlos A. López,
>confirms that the entire railway in Paraguay is stopped, apart from
trip
>workings to Encarnation station by FCMU diesels from Argentina.
>Occasional excursions have also been run for day trippers between
>Asunción and Ypacaraí (over tracks the government has suggested could
be
>taken up and replaced by a road) but the regular suburban service has
>been withdrawn. The workshop at Sapucay continues to operate, but for
>how long who dares to say, considering that there is no need for
>repaired locomotives or repaired anything else.
>
> This might be the end, unless some kind of pressure can be made to
>bear on the Paraguayan government. I for one feel that the Asunción -
>Sapucay stretch should be declared a part of the Heritage of Mankind by
>UNESCO. I am prepared to coordinate the making of a appeal to the
>Paraguay government to save this stretch of the railway, complete with
>steam locomotives, station buildings, wooden bodied carriages and the
>workshop. The line could be used by dmus (such as retired UK first
>generation units, about which I have spoken with the Paraguayan
>authorities) on a regular basis, with steam for tourists, etc..
>
> If anybody would like to associate her or himself with such an
>initiative, I wonder if you could ask them to express their suppprt to
>me, ideally by email, or else by fax (+ 56 2 208-0252) or regular mail
>(Ian Thomson, CEPAL, Casilla 179-D, Santiago, Chile). I would annex
>their messages to an appeal to be made to the Paraguayan government.
>
> Sincerest regards
>
> Ian
Regards,
Marcelo
ESTACION CENTRAL TERMINAL DE TRENES
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/index-7.html">http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/index-7.html</A>