IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 7121 - 7140
From: Anurag Acharya <>
Subject: Re: suggestion
Date: 17 Jul 1999 11:01:31 -0500
>i wonder if it will be a breach of privacy. maybe we can even have the
>information on a website, where we can also have the more durable news
from
>here.
I would suggest keeping such info off the web. To preserve what
limited privacy people have left these days :)
anurag
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Old DHR Livery
Date: 17 Jul 1999 21:34:17 -0500
<A HREF="http://www.orbonline.net/~auballan/trainsm.htm">http://www.orbonline.net/~auballan/trainsm.htm</A>
Was the standard IR Maroon livery ever used on
the DHR ? Or is this a tinted photo ?
-JS-
From: Samit Roychoudhury <>
Subject: Re: suggestion
Date: 17 Jul 1999 22:13:36 -0500
dear joydeep!
thank you for the welcome.
wow so close to the DHR!
samit
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: my granfather
Date: 18 Jul 1999 00:47:58 -0500
I am forwarding this mail to the Indian Railway Fan CLub Association
which may have
more information. Can you be specific about which area within India your
Grandfather
worked and the period of time ?
Apurva
andrea wrote:
> I am searching information about my Grandfather engeneer of the great
> indian railway in India.His name was Giuseppe Marini.
> Thank you in advance
> Andrea Marini
From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>
Subject: Re: AWE (was Re: GM vs Alco)
Date: 18 Jul 1999 05:51:39 -0500
Dear Harsh,
I think it's pretty certain that AWE was chosen precisely to
underline
the similarity to the XE, and its nominal capacity to do the same work.
(Actually I suspect the AWE would have been better.) As to the AWC, the
reason I referred to the classing as "an obvious fudge" is that it looks
very much to me as if calling it AWC was simply because a slightly
bigger
and earlier class was already called AWD! You're quite right that it was
nothing like an XC.
Cheers
Ken Walker
-----Original Message-----
From: hvc <champa@del3.email
To: Dr. K.J. Walker <kjw_meh@powerup.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 17 July 1999 5:18
Subject: Re: AWE (was Re: GM vs Alco)
>I love to go through your postings, with or without spinach/mustard,
and so
>do all others I think so keep them rolling please.
>
>The last piece was very interesting and informative. What I would still
like
>to know is what `C' and `E' stand for viz AWC/AWE if anything at all.
>
>AWC a 2-8-0 was obviously no equivalent for XC, a 4-6-2 but AWE has
some
>striking resemblence to XE/ XE-1 and similarly XD to AWD/CWD.
>
>Harsh
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Dr. K.J. Walker <kjw_meh@powerup.email
>To: hvc <hvc@vsnl.email
>Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>Date: Friday, July 16, 1999 4:33 PM
>Subject: Re: AWE (was Re: GM vs Alco)
>
>
>>Dear Harsh,
>> as these are not spinach (or mustard), maybe I can get it right
this
>>time.
>> As I think everyone knows, the USA supplied large numbers of
locomotives
>>to all countries during WWII (and to a lesser extent during WWI).
These
>>were, as far as possible, to standard designs, which meant that they
could
>>be supplied, with minor changes of gauge, brake equipment, and other
>>details, to many different countries.
>> India had several such classes. The initial move seems to have
been to
>>classify the BG ones "WD". Then a prefix -- A for USA, for locos of
Baldwin
>>or Alco build, and C for Canada, for those from Montreal Locomotive
>works --
>>was added. Then came the S160 2-8-0s, which, in an obvious fudge, were
>>christened AWC. The metre gauge Macarthurs were classed MAWD -- again
very
>>obvious -- and in recent years, as we all know, this got shortened to
WD.
>> The S160 2-8-0 was a simple, rugged, bar-framed 2-8-0. They were
>>produced in very large numbers for Europe, and some also ran in
Britain.
>>India's were the AWC class, and appear to have been bog-standard,
except
>for
>>the track gauge.
>> I'm not clear whether the AWD/CWD and AWE 2-8-2 designs were the
same
>>as the USATC "Middle East" 2-8-2, supplied in very large number to SG
lines
>>in --- the Middle East! Hughes offer no guidance on this. I think they
were
>>different, having seen all of the types.
>> The Macarthur 2-8-2 was probably the most famous wartime design.
It
>>was produced specifically for MG and 3ft 6in gauge lines. It ran in
India,
>>Burma, Malaya and Thailand to my certain knowledge, as well as
Queensland
>>(we have one in preservation). They were called AC16s in Queensland,
in a
>>direct parallel with the XE/AWE thing, as a local C16 class of
equivalent
>>power already existed. In Thailand they were generally called
Mukkertoors,
>>after a certain general.
>> The other really famous "war" engine was the 4-8-2+2-8-4 Light
>Garratt
>>produced by Beyer-Peacock for Assam, Burma, and Malaya. It was
supplied
>>after the war, in modified forms, to Queensland, South Australia, and
East
>>Africa (now Kenya). It has been called "the best light Garratt ever
made".
>>Although it had a light axleload, it was in fact a big and very
impressive
>>machine, very exciting to see in action.
>> There is a book by R. Tourret on wartime locos, but I don't have
a
>>copy, or the full reference. Apologies.
>> On another matter, while I agree with whoever it was that the
WDM2
>>has turned out to be an amazing workhorse, I think that three other
designs
>>deserve consideration on durability, reliability and style grounds.
These
>>are the WG, the BESA 2-8-0 (far ahead of British practice at the time,
and
>a
>>really rugged workhorse) and the MG F class 0-6-0, surely the best
known
>and
>>most widely distributed of the early MG classes. Some even went to the
>>Kenya-Uganda railway. In a sense, this is not competition: each design
>>belongs to its own period, and was a great workhorse in its time.
>> Happy debating, all
>> Ken Walker
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: hvc <champa@del3.email
>>To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
>>Date: 15 July 1999 7:02
>>Subject: AWE (was Re: GM vs Alco)
>>
>>
>>>AWE is the American built equivalent of the IRS class XEs. Iam not
aware
>if
>>>AWE has and expanded form. AWD were often called as `American War
>>>Department' locos but basically they too were the Yankee XDs.
Canadian
>>>examples were called CWD.
>>>
>>>Harsh
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: S Pai <s_pai@bigfoot.email
>>>To: Indian Railways List <irfca@cs.email
>>>Date: Thursday, July 15, 1999 7:11 PM
>>>Subject: Re: GM vs Alco
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Jayant,
>>>>
>>>>> Incidentally, is there a list somewhere of all the steam
>>>>> builders who supplied to the Subcontinent ?
>>>>
>>>>Your best bet is Hugh Hughes' books. There are other compilations
but
>>>>Hughes' books are probably the most accessible. I'm not aware of
anything
>>>>that is accessible online.
>>>>
>>>>> (Small query here: Did Alco steam ever run in India ?
>>>>> In the form of any AWE or WD wartime locos ?
>>>>
>>>>Yes, several of the metre-gauge WD class locos supplied by the US
Army
>>>>Transportation Corps just before and after Independence were made by
>>>>Alcos.
>>>>
>>>>I'm not sure what "AWE" stands for -- could you please clarify? Is
it a
>>>>class of loco or a maker's abbreviation?
>>>>
>>>>--Satish
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: my granfather
Date: 18 Jul 1999 08:24:52 -0500
Again,
I am forwarding this info to the Indian Railway Fan Club Association
(IRFCA) for a better
response. I would invite you to join the IRFCA so you are in touch with
a large number of
Indian Railway enthusiasts.
Details of how to subscribe on my website:
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/index.htm</A>
Apurva
andrea wrote:
> Thank you for your replay!(excuse me for my english)
> My grandfather work in the East indian Railway from Calicut to
Madras.In Howra he
> married my Grandmother an indian princess,son of a Maharaja,her name
was Cali Ranjit.
> After he work in the South Indian Railway fro Madras to
> Coimbatur,Salem,Edmanoor,Rayacott,Connoor,where he built many bridge
and dam.
> I know that he built a bridge in Howarh and he build the railway on
the Nilgris mountain
> the first a cremagliera( sorry,I don't know the name in english).The
name of my
> grandfather was Giuseppe Marini bor in 1871 in italy and died in 1945
in india in a
> british "lager".
> At the end of 1800 my grand father was in India.I know that in Bombay
there is a street
> or a square with his name, and I think that I have some parents with
his surname.
> I don't know if is possible to have some information about my
grandfather and if is
> possible to have some photo of his work.
> Thank you
> yours truly Andrea Marini
From: Dr. Shirish Yande <>
Subject: Yet another accident
Date: 18 Jul 1999 10:34:07 -0500
Hi folks,
Yet another unfortunate accident took place near Mathura.
Although the details are not yet available, it appraes to be a replay of
the Frontier Mail collision near Khanna earlier this year.
Clearly this is avoidable. Every dirver has clear instructions to deploy
detonators on the opposite line if he suspects that the line has been
foul. It was 2 AM in the morning. we do not know if the driver had
enough time. If the goods driver was incapacitated for any reason the
guard has to safeguard the other line as soon as possible.
The details did not come out. There is a tendency of suppression of the
news. However the sequence seems to be much like the Khanna incident.
Can anyone enlighten further?
Dr.Shirish Yande
From: Steven Brown <>
Subject: Re: my granfather/India Office Records
Date: 18 Jul 1999 10:58:36 -0500
The following URL may be of help.
India Office Records include employment info for the railways.
<A HREF="http://www.bl.uk/collections/oriental/records/iorfamhi.html#Railway">http://www.bl.uk/collections/oriental/records/iorfamhi.html#Railway</A>
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: andrea <ylelm@tin.email
Cc: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Sunday, July 18, 1999 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: my granfather
>Again,
>I am forwarding this info to the Indian Railway Fan Club Association
(IRFCA) for a better
>response. I would invite you to join the IRFCA so you are in touch with
a
large number of
>Indian Railway enthusiasts.
>Details of how to subscribe on my website:
><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/index.htm">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/index.htm</A>
>
>Apurva
>
>andrea wrote:
>
>> Thank you for your replay!(excuse me for my english)
>> My grandfather work in the East indian Railway from Calicut to
Madras.In
Howra he
>> married my Grandmother an indian princess,son of a Maharaja,her name
was
Cali Ranjit.
>> After he work in the South Indian Railway fro Madras to
>> Coimbatur,Salem,Edmanoor,Rayacott,Connoor,where he built many bridge
and
dam.
>> I know that he built a bridge in Howarh and he build the railway on
the
Nilgris mountain
>> the first a cremagliera( sorry,I don't know the name in english).The
name
of my
>> grandfather was Giuseppe Marini bor in 1871 in italy and died in 1945
in
india in a
>> british "lager".
>> At the end of 1800 my grand father was in India.I know that in Bombay
there is a street
>> or a square with his name, and I think that I have some parents with
his
surname.
>> I don't know if is possible to have some information about my
grandfather
and if is
>> possible to have some photo of his work.
>> Thank you
>> yours truly Andrea Marini
>
>
From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>
Subject: Re: Yet another accident
Date: 18 Jul 1999 11:07:43 -0500
There is yet another accident on Delhi-Kanpur line. There
was an accident between Delhi-Aligarh on the same day
as GT Exp accident causing major disruptions of train.
Before the services could be restored completely, there
seems to be another accident near Kanpur which has again
blocked traffic in both directions for considerable
period. Surprisingly, this accident was announced on the
Kanpur station, but I haven't seen it mentioned in any
newspaper. Probably it involved only freight train(s).
-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>
From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>
Subject: Re: Accident..
Date: 18 Jul 1999 19:19:51 -0500
> The driver and guard are supposed to carry colour rocket flares for
warning
> but more often than not, these are missing from the kit.
Hi Harsh,
COLOUR ROCKET FLARES? - well this is news to me. Are you all guys aware
of
this? I know of detonators but colour rocket flares?
regards
Viraf
From: Samit Roychoudhury <>
Subject: Fw: Welcome
Date: 18 Jul 1999 20:15:46 -0500
dear viraf!
thanks for the welcome :-)
samit
From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>
Subject: Jokes.
Date: 18 Jul 1999 20:20:47 -0500
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================
Joke du Jour Table of Content
o "Train Travel in Europe"
o "Missing A Train"
"Train Travel in Europe"
One day a man took the train from Paris to Frankfurt.
When he got in he said to the ticket man: "Sir. I really
need you to do me a favor, I have to get down this train
in Mannheim, but I'm very tired and it is for sure that I
will fall asleep. So what I want you to do is that you wake
me up in Mannheim because I have to close a business
deal there, and it is very important for me. Here you have
100 francs for the favor. But I warn you to know
sometimes when people wake me up I get really violent,
but no matter what I do or say you got to get me out of
this train in Mannheim. Is that clear?" So the ticket man
agreed and took the 100 francs.
Later as the man had said he fall asleep, and when he
woke up he realized that he was in Frankfurt. He was so
mad at the ticket man that he ran over and started yelling
at the ticket man.
"Are you STUPID or something??? I paid you 100 francs
so that you wake me up in Mannheim. And you didn't! --
I want my money back ."
While the man was yelling at the ticket guy, two other
guys that were also in the train were looking at them.
Then one turns to the other and says to him:
Guy1, "Look at this guy! He is mad!"
Guy2, "Yeah, almost as mad as the guy they made
get out of the train in Mannheim."
"Missing A Train"
The train was about to pull out of the station.
Swinging a large bag, a young man managed
to reach the train, throw his bag in and climb
aboard, gasping for air.
Looking at him, another man said, "Young
man, you should be in better shape! At your
age, I could catch the train by a gnat's whisker
and still be fresh. Look at you, panting away."
The young man took a deep breath and said,
"Pop, I missed this train at the *last* station."
<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>*<>
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From: Samit Roychoudhury <>
Subject: Re:Fw: Welcome
Date: 18 Jul 1999 21:57:27 -0500
dear poras..
thank you very much and indeed i am sure i will enjoy myself in IRFCA.
samit
From: Prateep Chatterjee <>
Subject: Re: Jokes.
Date: 18 Jul 1999 22:37:06 -0500
"VIRAF P.. MULLA" wrote:
> "Train Travel in Europe"
Hi everybody !
I checked with the Deutsche Bahn page and came to know that there are no
connections from Paris to Frankfurt via Mannheim which stop at Mannheim
late in
the night (presuming of course that the passenger who was supposed to be
woken up
by the TC was about to fall asleep in the night). The two connections
which have
stoppage at Mannheim after 2300 hrs have reasons which would not have
prompted
the travel (or for that matter the joke itself) :
1. The changeover at Mannheim takes place around 2300 hrs and the same
train
does not go to Frankfurt at all. Therefore the joke does not stand !!
2. A prolonged stopover of around 4 hrs. (between 0100 hrs and 0500 hrs)
+ a slow
connection (not by the fast EC, IC or THALYS trains). That is, one had
to change
trains to Frankfurt at Mannheim, meaning : the train was again not going
to
Frankfurt.
As far as the joke itself is concerned, its okay (and heard before),
perhaps it
must have happened in the distant past .............................
This mail is just for the records though ....................
Prateep Chatterjee
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: Old DHR Livery
Date: 19 Jul 1999 01:20:14 -0500
I always thought that the DHR was blue in colour. However this
does not look tinted to me. Maybe there was a season with this
livery (before your time, obviously !)
Apurva
Jayant S wrote:
> <A HREF="http://www.orbonline.net/~auballan/trainsm.htm">http://www.orbonline.net/~auballan/trainsm.htm</A>
>
> Was the standard IR Maroon livery ever used on
> the DHR ? Or is this a tinted photo ?
>
> -JS-
From: Anand Krishnan <>
Subject: Rocket flares and denotnators???
Date: 19 Jul 1999 01:45:31 -0500
Hey hey hey wait a sec. I am unaware of both. May we request the rail
techno-czars of the group to please explain how this works.
______________________________________________________
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From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: WCAG1 at Mumbai (?)
Date: 19 Jul 1999 03:02:54 -0500
"S.B.Mehta" wrote:
> Hi, all,
>
> saw a WCAG1 hauling a container rake at Ghatkopar stn. yesterday
> afternoon. Livery is blue cabs and cream in-between and looks
> exactly like a WCAM2/3 only maybe a bit bigger. The loco appeared
> brand new. Any details?
Maybe there is a WCAG 1.
I.S. Anand (the computer challenged rail nut from Mumbai with his ear
to the ground) had told me almost an year ago that a freight only
version of the WCAM 3 was on the cards for the use in the ghats amongst
other things. I am quite sure that this is nothing much but a WCAM 3
with regeared bogies (high adhesion types) and a more powerful
transformer.
Maybe BHEL's website would have more details. This loco would replace
the WCG 2 someday.
Inspite of its dumb looks the WCAM 3 has a lot of high technology
inside and is proving to be a reliable loco in the most difficult main
line sections on the IR.
Apurva
>
From: poras p.saklatwalla <>
Subject: TVC Rajdhani !
Date: 19 Jul 1999 04:00:02 -0500
Hi gang,
This weekend I had gone to VAsai road and whilst returning back on
Saturday night at around 11.25 the Raj from Trivandrum arrived on its
way
to Hazrat Nizammudin. I missed my local train and waited on the
platform
to see the Raj arrive. It was headed by Ernakulam WDM2 and was a small
train with only 11 coaches. One of the many passengers got down for a
smoke and tea. I was thrilled and started talking to him. He told me
that the train had got delayed by 11/2 hrs before Madgaon but had made
up
and was almost running rt time. Surprising for KR run ! The train was
full booked with passengers mostly from Goa.
I wish more and more trains to KR from Delhi and other places go via
Vasai. I saw the April 99 issue of the Indian railway magazine and
was quite happy with the contents of the same.
The day VAsai gets all major trains to KR stopping and the Mumbai div
gets AC power supply I am sure that there will be a major electric
shed
at VAsai and even Diesel shed.
Igatpuri Bhusawal is still on WAP AND WAM4'S. train s upto Manmad is
on wcam3 friom Mumbai and even these trains have a halt of 10 mins
whereas others have for 20 mins. Even the Mumbai -Bhusawal passenger is
run on a WAM4. This I noticed yesterday at Deolali station. The
Mumbai Howrah Super deluxe express is an extremely favourite train for
passengers travelling to City of Joy ! Wish the nuts in CR hq
reschedule its run and terminate it at V.T. instead of that idiotic
Kurla terminus.
The Janata express topic seemed to be very very hot when I was vv
busy.
One of my favourite Janata was the erstwhile Mumbai Delhi Janata later
rechristened as Firozpur janata. I had been to Delhi once by this train
and the train has some impressive runs after Ratlam at good speeds.
Yes folks the accident of the Grand Trunk Express was indeed
v.v.unfortunate and such accidents are really unwarranted. But I do
not understand why this type of accident should occur ? Do you mean
to
say that a goods train has derailed and the wagons lie on the main
line
where SFs and other pass trains are supposed to pass then why the hell
no signals are given ? If this has occured at mathura say 1o mins
earlier then cant the train speeding in the direction be stopped ?
What were the signal men doing ? ASsuming signals having failed for
some
reason is there no way the earlier stns can be informed that halt GT
or
the Frontier .? The day the frontier episode happened I had travelled
in the evening by SWarna Shatabdi from ASR ? Imagine if we had taken a
night train or suppose I would have been in frontier. ? So many
innocent
lives are lost and hampered when because of indifference of rail
employees. I think strictest action has to be taken against the cabin
staff ort signal man or driver whoever is at fault. What is the use of
having SF trains when these people cant safe guard passengers who
patronize railway travel. I think the priority of the mandarins in the
Rail Bhavan is wrong ? Have safety first then service then speed !
But alas in a country where a housewife can hold an entire state to
ransom, How will the mandarins in RAil Bhavan know the diff between
their
elbows and their arse ? Sorry but this is purely my opinion. I wish
some rail board member was on our list who could read my Mail and
Express his views if any ?
PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: WCAG1 at Mumbai (?)
Date: 19 Jul 1999 04:21:41 -0500
Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> Inspite of its dumb looks the WCAM 3 has a lot of high technology
> inside and is proving to be a reliable loco in the most difficult main
> line sections on the IR.
Actually it does not really look dumb. I hated it in
the beginning when it replaced the graceful WCM1, but after
some time the brute, no-nonsense appearance of the WCAM3
begins to take on a character of its own.
--
JS
--
From: Royston Ellis <>
Subject: Classic topics
Date: 19 Jul 1999 05:11:29 -0500
Hi Gang:
A word of appreciation for the recent e-mails: classics indeed. I hope
we
hear more about Andrea Marini's grandfather; he seems to have done so
much
to build Indian Railways! I wonder what the British thought of that?
And thanks to Prateep Chatterjee; let's put the sleeping lout with too
much
money out at another station, or from another train.
And rockets and detonators! After mustard tops!
Getting these e-mails really brightens my day. Thanks a lot to all!
Royston