IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 4581 - 4600

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: Travelogues required

Date: 05 Dec 1998 19:21:41 -0500

I think the 3003/3004 Bombay Calcutta Mail via Allahabad is unique
historically since it was one of the first trains to span the country
I'm looking forward to travel on this train. Of course today the train
lost much of its pride and prestige which it once enjoyed and its all
forgotten the historical significance of the link.

Jules Verne's "Around the World in Eighty Days" captures this very
well in parts (though totally fiction)


From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Diva Dombivali Sketch

Date: 06 Dec 1998 07:11:29 -0500

I must appreciate the efforts that Rajan has taken to clear up the
mystery of the Dombivali - Diva section. The path of the various trains
taken leave no room for any doubt at all. Thanks Rajan. I have more
requests of 'enthusiast's maps' of, to start with Mumbai - section
between Andheri - Mahim - Rawli Jn - towards CSTM & towards Kurla. Also
the through and terminus entrance to Mankhurd as we had discussed at my
place. You could also show how the line from Vashi actually crosses the
MU - PA highway and meets the Konkan Rail. Rajan please correct your
system date - your mails are coming with the wrong date.


Rajan Mathew wrote:

> Where there are pairs of tracks, then any of the tracks can be used
> Some points on the diagram
> 1. The numbers on the scale are distance from Mumbai CST as indicated
on the
> nearest poles.
> 2. All additional lines besides the suburban and through lines are
> in red.
> 3. Note that the first line from Diva platform has no connection to
> Panvel line but joins with the main line. It is used for the Diva
Vasai DMU.
> The evening service of the DMU is scheduled just after the Pune bound
> Queen passes on the Main line (1750 hrs).
> Rajan
> Name: diva dombivali sketch3.jpg
> diva dombivali sketch3.jpg Type: JPEG Image (image/jpeg)
> Encoding: base64

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Asymmetric trains and tales from the Bhore ghat

Date: 06 Dec 1998 07:49:04 -0500

Kumar this is a very interesting point you have described - only
parallel I
can list near us is the operation of trains in the Bhore Ghats - But
that is
stretching a point too far. There are three lines through the Lonavala -
Karjat ghats on the Pune - Mumbai line and they encounter different
stations. But then these are only technical halts with no passenger
The older two lines run Lonavala - Khandala - Monkey Hill - Thakurwadi -
Jhambrung route. As the third (Up only, going towards Mumbai) line takes
South crest of the hills, from Monkey hill - it encounters Nagnath while
lines 1 & 2 taking the other side of the hill encounters Thakurwadi -
two lines meet at Jhambrung.
The 3rd line is favourite of the descending goods trains which as this
is less heavily graded than the other two.
Inspite of the 3rd line being designed only for the descending Up
we had a horrible accident in the early years of the line being
when the Udyan Express from Mumbai to Bangalore (it used to leave Mumbai
the night in those days) entered the wrong line at Jhambrung and
head on with a South East Parcel special. This accident was a classic
of lack of training, bad communication facility, lack of clear
etc. The Jhambrung cabin switched the Udyan on the wrong track as per a
misunderstood instruction from the section controller as another train
occupied the main dn. track. Udyan driver knew that he was on the wrong
but he assumed that the line was clear for both side traffic as per a
directive. There were many deaths in this accident and the wreckage took
weeks to clear. Even today after 20 or so years, the Udyan Express
litter the rough mountainous site.
The other near tragedy we had was a few years ago when 1022 Up Indrayani
Express rolled down the ghat from Thakurwadi to Karjat yard without a
and while the loco was on fire ! Fortunately there was no causality in
accidents but think if the entire train was to derail in such a steep
section. The absolute truth will never be known but this is what seems
have happened. I know the driver personally and I have heard his version
The WCM 5 loco of this train caught fire while the train was waiting at
Thakurwadi. Thakurwadi is a 'catch siding' where the descending train
to check for recharging the brake system and to confirm the brake
over the rake. In case the train does not stop - it enters a steep track
hill which would brake the runaway by gravity force. But if everything
right, the train waits the Thakurwadi signal for about five minutes and
a line clear is given - till then the point are set for the catch
The 1022 arrived at TKW over 2 hours late. The train waited normally at
signal but the driver on noticing the fire went to the TKW cabin to call
control and inform him of the problem. Just then the waiting period was
and the signal turned green. As a procedure a call also goes to the
fire brigade although it is impossible to get even a cycle let alone a
engine to the site. All though the conversation the loco was burning and
signal was green. The accident could have been prevented bu just putting
back the signal and the point towards the catch siding. As the loco had
dropped the panto - the air pressure dropped in the brake system. The
brake rake was recently introduced for the Indrayani and the WCM 5 loco
converted from only vacuum to dual braked system. The drivers were
on the air braked system only for a day or so. The drivers were used to
brakes when they were EMU drivers but then these are twin pipe air
while the EMUs has electro pneumatic brakes. The modified air brake
operates in the reverse sense as a vacuum brake lever and the assistant
driver who was in the cab had been in this job quite recently. The
had started out as a non technical division - he had joined as a office
clerk and then changed his line to driving at a much later stage. The
had no wooden wedges to stop a prevent rolling in the ghats. One version
said that the assistant saw the applied brakes and thought that the
were actually not applied and he reversed the lever position. One
said that the brake application was a factor that everyone overlooked.
more version said that although the brakes were on, defects in the
prevented the train from holding on. As far as I know, the system is
foolproof and if a pipe bursts or if the air pressure drops, the brake
application is automatic - that did not happen or the brakes were
deliberately released. Much after the accident the CR took many trials
simulating exactly the same conditions, but the accidental rolling
not be duplicated. The train raced down the ghats at 110 KMPH while the
allowed speed is 55 KMPH. Apart from the driverless loco, the third
also caught fire - either the irate travellers set it on fire, or some
reason. One of the driver's colleagues put the reason of the 3rd coach
to 'friction' from being driven too fast ! Very sincerely - he actually
believes in that reason. Anyway, the driver was suspended from driving
duties for two years and retired recently as a top notch mail express
driver. The actual reports will probably never made public so we can
guess. There was a rumour that as the Bhore and Thull ghats are the
on the IR (is this true - is it true only for BG ?) the rules and norms
the air braked rakes elsewhere in the country should not be applied to
section, and vacuum braked rakes should be retained here. But the rumour
unfounded - all the short haul trains between Mumbai and Pune are air
today. Soon after the accident, all the air braked locos in the Mumbai -
Pune - Igatpuri sported an audio siren which sounds when the train
are being released - makes sleeping in the rear cab an impossibility !
the air braked locos around the country also have this feature ?


Sankaran Kumar wrote:

> Interesting note:
> 3111/3112 Sealdah-Delhi Express uses a slightly different route to
> than to Sealdah.
> Delhi-Sealdah Barddhaman-Bandel-(cross Hooghly)-Naihati-Sealdah
> Sealdah-Delhi Sealdah-Dakshineshwar-(cross Hooghly)-(Dankuni no
> halt)-Barddhaman.
> Note also Delhi-Sealdah is done via Bandel but Sealdah-Delhi via HB
> chord.
> Also even though it is not assymmetric, I think the HWH Amritsar Mail
> uses the HB main line even though it has no stops between Barddhaman
> HWH (it takes 20-25 mts longer than trains using the HB chord). I
> wonder why it is routed on the main line? Can anyone confirm this?
> Thanks
> Kumar
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF=""></A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Dynamic & Regenerative Brakes

Date: 06 Dec 1998 07:58:25 -0500

Gang !

Just curious to know how the 'regenerative' brakes operate in AC locos.
How is the DC or newly introduced AC motors produce a single phase
current at a slightly higher voltage than the 25 KV AND at the same
phase as the OHE supply, during regen braking ? Dynamic brakes are very
easy - just load the motors working as generators by a resistor, but
what about AC motors ?
The 1.5 KV DC section has a few locos having 'regen' braking - although
this braking is never used. The only DC loco in our section doing
sincere 'non frictional' braking is the screaming WCG 2 which has
dynamic brakes whose shrill grid cooling blowers are kept on at all time
by a quirk in the electrical circuit, making this loco a very noisy

Can anyone explain regen braking in AC locos better ?


From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Passengers escape narrowly as Chennai Express rams into bus

Date: 06 Dec 1998 08:14:11 -0500

It is confirmed that the bus driver was drunk and he was given the
charge of the bus even as the passengers complained to the bus station
superintendent before the journey about the rash driving of the driver.


Dheeraj Sanghi wrote:

> PUNE: More than 40 passengers a state transport bus had a
> miraculous escape as they managed to get out of the vehicle
> minutes before the Chennai Express rammed into the bus at Kamshet
> Phata here today, ripping it apart. However, the driver could
> not be saved as he lost consciousness after the Junnar-Mumbai
> bus overturned on the railway track and could not be extricated in
> time. The passengers escaped through the emergency door due to the
> presence of mind shown by the conductor of the bus, reports PTI.
> Police said the accident occurred when the driver of the bus lost
> control over the vehicle on the old Mumbai-Pune highway and the
> bus skidded off the road and fell upside down on the railway tracks.

From: Larry Russell <>

Subject: Anpara

Date: 06 Dec 1998 17:03:27 -0500

Hi Guys, Anyone know where Anpara is located in UP? There is a large
power generating station there that has WDM2's (Lots of the power
stations have them as well as WDS6's. I can't find it on my Lonely
Planet travel atlas,

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: My web site !!

Date: 06 Dec 1998 19:05:39 -0500

Hello Sridhar,
I had been a bit tied up over the last few days, and could view your
site in
detail only
Brilliant piece of work, man!
The pic of the steam hauled train arriving tender first into Coonoor
deserves the Pulitzer
prize! The steam and smoke floating around in the air etc. filled me
emotion reminis-
cing about the glorious days of a bygone era.
And although I'm usually biased towards steam, you've even managed to
the YDM look
terrific. Probably its the blue color scheme.
Great site, but for the time it takes to download. Thanx a zillion for
visual feast.
Best regards.

At 11:52 PM 12/4/98 -0600, you wrote:
>Check out my web site
><A HREF=""></A>
><A HREF=""></A>
>if you do not want to wait for the whole page to load.
>I have some pics on the Nilagiri Mountain Railways and some other
>pictures. This is my first such venture and would appreciate your

>Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place,
>GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
>University of Chicago (773) 752 1131

From: Shankar <>

Subject: WPs at Delhi

Date: 06 Dec 1998 19:14:08 -0500

Thanks a lot for returning steam to the India page.
One samll request: could you possibly re-post the earlier lot of steam
pics? I was particularly fond of the pic of the two WPs at Delhi, and
had set it as a wallpaper for a while.
I'd bookmarked the site thinking that the pics will permanently be
available there. I'm sorry to have lost them.
I'd like to save the image with your permission, if you could re-post

Best regards

From: Brock Johnson <>

Subject: subscribe

Date: 06 Dec 1998 19:18:56 -0500

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From: Bharat Vohra <>

Subject: New Page on DHR!

Date: 06 Dec 1998 22:39:07 -0500

Check out my new page on the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway at.....
<A HREF=""></A>

Bharat Vohra

Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF=""></A>

From: Bharat Vohra <>

Subject: Correction to the URL....

Date: 06 Dec 1998 22:49:28 -0500

Hi All...
I had made a slight mistake in giving you all the URL for my new page on

the DHR...please use the following address...
<A HREF=""></A>

Thank you,
Bharat Vohra

Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF=""></A>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Wankaner Steam today!

Date: 06 Dec 1998 22:53:06 -0500

>Thanks for all the feedback and comments.
>The first point you pointed out is wasn't Vavaniya I was
>referring to but the other station where the Navlakhi branch had
>terminated while I was there. I was wrong in mentioning Vavaniya as the
>station on the Dahinsara-Navlakhi branch!

Looking up at the latest WR timetable it seems that the service to
is now terminated at Dahinsara itself! Is the damage to the line still
repaired repaired or has it been decided to use this link for salt
only ? Does anyone know? Viraf, can you provide any info from the CPRO

>As for the second point, I will have to look up the old WR map and
>where exactly the NG line ran to...I think it had an offshoot at some
>stage which might have taken it north east! I will check!

Iam pretty certain about this having travelled on this line and have
old maps and time tables which show this as well.

>About the third..well it was definitely not coming directly from Ajmer
>Wankaner, for the following 3 reasons-
>1- I confirmed this with the shed staff..who said that it travels from
>Ajmer to Rajkot (through the MG route) as a 'dead' loco attatched to
>various goods trains. It then gets transferred to BG flats at RKT ansd
>moves to WKR to get unloaded!
>2- I myself saw the train come in from the Rajkot side...and not from
>the ADI side
>3- It was a special train with just a flat wagon and a Guard
>otherwsie would have been highly expensive to run all the way from AII
>to RKT!! Rajkot being only an hour or so's journey away made much more

1. The shed staff may not know as their involvement comes only during
unloading. When the MG route was through, the shed staff would take the
delivery of the locomotive at Ajmer itself and drive it back but now it
booked by the Ajmer works and they just take the delivery at Wankaner.
practice of tranferring the loco at Rajkot prevailed for a short period
the Ajmer - Ahmedabad route was still under conversion. The current MG
from Ajmer to Rajkot is very long and tedious and will take days for the
loco to arrive whereas BG route takes less than 24 hours! It is not a
idea to run a dry loco especially after a POH and couplers, connecting
etc. will have to be removed(did you notice this by the way) to avoid
constant battering of the dry cylinders by pistons.

2. & 3. Currently there are no transfer sidings for MG to BG at Rajkot
rarely a MG goods train arrives from Ahmedabad side. If a loco has to be
loaded on a flat anyway, it makes sense to do it at Ajmer itself and
a smooth transfer. The mystery of loco arriving from Rajkot side could
that it arrived with a full rake formation(at Ajmer) and was detached at
Rajkot only and had to be returned back as a special.

The information and procedures are based on what was revealed to me on a
visit to Ajmer works in Feb '98. In any case, I'll cross check with the
if 2805 had a special transfer.

Thanks & regards,


From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Anpara

Date: 07 Dec 1998 04:28:44 -0500


Anpara is located near Singrauli. If you have a CR map, Singrauli can
be seen some 300 Kms east of Katni, it can also be reached via Chopan
west of Mughal Sarai. I doubt if any railway or tourist map would show
Anpara, its star attraction is really its massive thermal power plant,
although Singrauli could be mentioned now that a separate Singrauli
division is carved out of Dhanbad division of the Eastern Railways.
Actually the Singrauli area is dotted with large power plants and these
generate electricity for the northern and eastern Indian areas. I have
passed the Anpara while I had been to Singrauli. You should also go
there if you get a chance.

There is a merry go round railway operated by the National Thermal Power
Corporation (NTPC) using WDM 2 and WDS 6 (normal rust coloured) and
prussian blue wagons having the NTPC logo. Let me know what exactly you
want details of and maybe some more info can be available.

A few years back, Renukoot in the same area bid farewell to a XA class
(?) steam loco which had served in the Hindalco plant after retirement
from the IR. The loco worked to the NRM in New Delhi from Renukoot under
its own steam and is now preserved there.


Larry Russell wrote:

> Hi Guys, Anyone know where Anpara is located in UP? There is a large
> power generating station there that has WDM2's (Lots of the power
> stations have them as well as WDS6's. I can't find it on my Lonely
> Planet travel atlas,
> Larry

From: Sujan Dutta <>

Subject: great to be here

Date: 07 Dec 1998 07:16:17 -0500

Anurag & gang,

I've joined up recently and am already convinced I'm among the right
lot. But some of you guys look pros when it comes to trains. I'm just an

aficionado, amateur in every way and do not even have a technical
background like many of you seem to have. I love looking at trains and
despite all the discomfort of the railways, I enjoy travelling on them.
I also read a lot of books on the railways. If its of interest to you,
you might be glad to hear that BBC has just brought a second volume on
railway journeys entitled "More Great Train Journeys" published in
association with Penguin. Its expensive for its size -- Rs 250 per copy
-- but pieces like Chris Bonington's Halifax to Vancouver gave my mind's

eye a panoramic view across the breadth of Canada.

Can't say the family (read wife) enjoys the railways as much as I do
particularly when the son is just four years old and the train seems to
be late by centuries.

Anyway, I hope Pablo -- that's my son and he turned all of four years

yesterday -- retains and sustains his interest. He does enjoy playing
with trains and most of all being the engine driver. So we have hatched
a male conspiracy in the house to chug along merrily despite odds.

I'll be taking Pablo (and the odd one out) to Mysore later this
month. I hear Mysore has a good railway museum. Will be glad for tips on

what to look out for. We'll be taking the Coromandel Express from
Calcutta (where I'm based) to Chennai; from Chennai we'll take the
Shatabdi Express.

Cheers and tally ho!


Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF=""></A>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Website on DHR.

Date: 07 Dec 1998 07:19:05 -0500

Dear Bharat,
Thanks for another visual treat ! You must be
hard on them. I found the pictures most beautiful especially the one of
train at New Jalpaiguri(NJP).

However as a long standing admirer of this great railway, and a frequent
traveller as well, I could not but help noticing a few glaring errors in
descriptions `again'. For you and the more discerning followers, Iam
describing these below and adding a few inputs of other relevant info as
well in the process:

a) Ghoom at 7407 feet is also the second heighest railway station in the

b) The DHR has seen many changes in the design of the locomotives before
standardising on the B class. The present B class which has been most
succesful since its inception in 1889 is an improvement of the A class
has been a standard on the line since it was introduced. Other varied
of motive power including a Garratt have been tried on this line but
could beat the good old B class. Even specially produced diesels have

c) The major supplier of B class locomotives has been North British with
at the top, the original designer of the locos Sharp Stewart is at
place with
9 and Baldwin supplied merely 3 locomotives. 3 were built at DHR itself
using spares received with bulk orders.

d) B class 790 was built by North British and not Sharp Stewart as

e) Services from plains to hills i.e. from NJP to DJ are `up' services
and not `down' as mentioned. This peculiar anomaly is seen on Indian
Railways only on the Nilgiri Mountain Railways where train going uphill
is a
`down' service!

f) There is no locomotive numbered 815 on the DHR. Only 30 of the B
were built which were numbered from 777 to 806. The one featured is
B 805 buit North British in 1925.

g) Each of these locomotives carry a crew of 5-6. These are the driver,
assistant(not always seen), fireman, a coal breaker(who sits on the top
the coal bunker and breaks big chunks of coal) and two sanders who sit
the front. The job
of these sanders is to sprinkle fine sand on the rails when `going
to minimise the slipping of locomotive wheels. The second class coaches
DHR till date use a manual foot brake which is operated by the brakesmen
sit on the top of the coaches and lunge on these levers at the edge of
coaches to ease the train `going downhill'.

h) Currently Darjeeling Mail arrives at NJP at 08.15 Hrs. The connecting
for DJ departs at 09.00

i) To the best of my information, New Jalpaiguri is the only station in
world to have 3 gauges!

j) There are only 3 loops on the DHR now with loop No. 1 taken off many
years back.

k) The road and the rail cross each other 176 times between NJP and DJ.

l) The Hill cart road is now renamed as `Tenzing Norgay Road'.

Thanks and regards,


-----Original Message-----
From: Bharat Vohra <
To: <
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 11:35 PM
Subject: Correction to the URL....

>Hi All...
>I had made a slight mistake in giving you all the URL for my new page
>the DHR...please use the following address...
><A HREF=""></A>
>Thank you,
>Bharat Vohra
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF=""></A>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Anpara

Date: 07 Dec 1998 07:20:33 -0500

Annapara is located on the UP-MP border on the offshoot of
Katni-Singrauli-Chopan branch line. It is 61 Km from Chopan and on small
branch section off Kareila Road
Jn. which . It falls under eastern railway though.

The power station is called Singrauli Thermal Power Station which is


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Russell <
To: <
Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 5:06 PM
Subject: Anpara

>Hi Guys, Anyone know where Anpara is located in UP? There is a large
>power generating station there that has WDM2's (Lots of the power
>stations have them as well as WDS6's. I can't find it on my Lonely
>Planet travel atlas,

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Anpara

Date: 07 Dec 1998 07:57:21 -0500


Are you talking about the Y-2(L-2) locomotive. Well, It did't work all
way to Delhi but travelled light at 20 Kmph! It was just steamed up for
entering the museum.


>A few years back, Renukoot in the same area bid farewell to a XA class
>(?) steam loco which had served in the Hindalco plant after retirement
>from the IR. The loco worked to the NRM in New Delhi from Renukoot
>its own steam and is now preserved there.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Website on DHR.

Date: 07 Dec 1998 08:39:23 -0500

At 08:49 PM 12/7/98 +0530, you wrote:
>i) To the best of my information, New Jalpaiguri is the only station in
>world to have 3 gauges!
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bharat Vohra <
>To: <
>Date: Monday, December 07, 1998 11:35 PM
>Subject: Correction to the URL....
>>Hi All...
>>I had made a slight mistake in giving you all the URL for my new page
>>the DHR...please use the following address...
>><A HREF=""></A>
>>Thank you,
>>Bharat Vohra
>>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF=""></A>

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Trip Report

Date: 07 Dec 1998 09:25:36 -0500

> > Does the common man/woman really care about all this? All he/she
> > wants is for the train to arrive safely and on time - and that
> > doesn't seem to happening a lot, atleast, to non-Delhi trains.
> While safety and punctuality are definitely important, it does not
> mean that IR should stop thinking of comfort and style. No service
> in trains until we can have good safety and punctuality record!!!
> I don't agree.

I never said that. Service is extremely important. I was merely
reiterating my favorite gripe about non-Delhi trains being blatantly
when it comes to basic essentials such as punctuality and comfort. To
illustrate my point, the Chennai Raj, Tamilnadu and GT have all been
speeded-up in the Vijayawada-Chennai section by 20-40 mts. Why has the
Coromandel been left out? Just because it is NOT from Delhi? It can
be speeded up 20-30 mts. in the very same section as these Delhi trains.

> > How does IR justify allocating funds for such trains when they are
> > unable to even maintain the existing infrastructure (way behind in
> > track renewals, improper safety measures, etc.)? It's disheartening
> > to witness a great system falling prey to politics :-(
> Such trains are profit making ventures, I believe. With freight
> earnings on the decline, IR has to subsidize 2nd class travel
> from somewhere else.

Point well taken. IR definitely needs some profit-making services.


From: Roger G. Morris <>

Subject: Some more pictures for your delectation!

Date: 07 Dec 1998 11:58:07 -0500

I've updated the Indian Rail pages at my web site - as some of you have
already noted! As the rest of the site is still being updated I hadn't
posted this before but I feel that, as the cat is out of the bag, ......

Go to <A HREF=""></A>

and follow the links for this month's piccies, which are:-

asia1.html WG8807 leaving Bareilly Junction on a passenger

asia2.html WG10279 shunting the yard at Kota

asia3.html YL5125 entering Jaipur Junction with train from Toda
Rai Singh (which I forgot the name of when I wrote the page, I must go

asia4.html YP being hand painted (literally) at Mahesana

As the end of December / beginning of January is fairly hectic in the UK
there may not be an update for two months (I'm just about to go back to
work, after a year off, as well) and then it will be (insert chorus of
boos all round) diesels for a month before steam returns.

Take care, all.
Roger G. Morris

Rail images and more at <A HREF=""></A>
The home of the Buriton Wheelbarrow