IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 441 - 460
From: vijayb <vijayb@pk705vmg.email
Subject: Re: Roundhouses, DMUs, ...
Date: 01 Mar 1991 16:04:00 -0500
HI,
Thanks a lot, Vickraj, for providng the clarifications. Now that I am sure
what these mean, I distincly recall having seen photos of round-houses in
various books.Although I have spotted lots of turn-tables (many steam loco
. sheds on IR do have these), I cannot say the same for round-houses.
Maybe, there was one at the Bhusaval steam loco. shed.
Vijay
From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email
Subject: roundhouse
Date: 01 Mar 1991 18:32:00 -0500
I remember seeing something that looked like a roundhouse for
steam locos at Erode Jn. of SR. This was during the night, tho'
and my memories of it are very vague ...
aravind
From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@cs.email
Subject: Re: Railcars
Date: 04 Mar 1991 18:07:00 -0500
Sanjay Saigal writes:
>Is there a technical difference between Railcars and DMUs?
>I've seen some of the latter outside IITK. Perhaps some
>ex-IITK irfca'ite can say more?
I remember seeing those things at the Kalyanpur Rly Stn. I
always thought that those things were DMU but recently, I
read somewhere (Indian Railways, Aug '90 issue maybe I will
check) that the first DMUs were started last year in Cal
(or was it Madras).
-dheeraj
From: Ajai Banerji <A.AJAI@Macbeth.Email
Subject: All about railcars
Date: 08 Mar 1991 22:38:00 -0500
It is nice to see the net active again!
I am not sure if there is any real distinction between a railcar and a
diesel multiple unit-except that there can be petrol and steam railcars as
well as diesel. On the Indian railways both single and double diesel railcar
units have been used.
A quick glance at the current timetable shows that railcars seem to be
running only on the narrow gauge. These include:
Kalka-Shimla section has a diesel car with special fares(higher than 1st class).
Earlier there used to be petrol railcars.
Railcars are also used on the Yelahanka-Bangarapet section. These look
very fragile, almost as if you could push them over easily.
There are also railcars on the Gwalior-Bhind and Gwalior-Sheopur Kalan
sections. It may be noted that the Gwalior lines have 2'0'' gauge unlike
most n.g. lines which are 2'6"
Although there are apparently no m.g. services anywhere in India now, there
used to be a number of them centred around Kanpur. IIT Kanpur students would
be most familiar with the twin railcars which used to run between Kanpur
and Brahmavart(Bithour). It is said that in the early days of IITK things
were so informal that the railcar drivers used to stop at the IIT gate to
let students off.
I also remember traveling in a similar railcar from Kanpur to Lucknow.
Likewise, there are no b.g. railcars to be seen in service now. In the
early 70s there used to be a few running somewhere on the Vijayawada-
Waltair section. I saw a few derelict railcars at Vijayawada yard. A
friend who then lived at Kakinada mentioned that one used to run between
Samalkot and Kakinada, and that these railcars had been gifted by the
New Zealand government to the AP government.
I vaguely remember railcars being used on the Bangalore-Mysore section,
though they didn't last long.
I have been spending some time reading old issues of the Railway Gazette
which gave a very good coverage of the Indian railways in pre-independence
days. It is surprising to see that in the 1930s railcars were being tried
at many places. In those days there were 'Sentinel' services which were
actually steam railcars.
-------
From: Ajai Banerji <A.AJAI@Macbeth.Email
Subject: NEWS-RAILWAY BUDGET
Date: 15 Mar 1991 22:38:00 -0500
RAILWAY BUDGET DETAILS
(Summarised from Times of India, Feb 26. My comments in brackets)
The interim budget featured a deficit of 652 crores. No rise in fares or
freight.
What IRFCA netters would be most interested in are new services. Here
they are:
11 new trains to be introduced and 6 others to be exttended.(Probably
from July 1 as now timetables will be revised only once a year)
1) Express from Secunderabad to ? via Nadikude (sorry, it was missing
from tthe report)
2) Inter-city express from Bombay to Ahmedabad (is there any special
significance in the term inter-city?)
3) Ranchi-Rourkela express, to link with Bombay- Howrah express.
4) Bangalore-Tirupati express.
5) Allahabad-Agra Canttt express. (Good idea. It may help reducing the
menace of short-distance passengers on Delhi-Cal route. I wonder how
they can keep adding trains on the super-saturated Delhi-Mughal Sarai
route. I suppose we will find that some other train has been cancelled
to make way for this)
6) Allahabad City-Chhapra express on m.g. (BTW, the railway minister
Janeshwar Misra is from Allahabad. This train also passes through
PM Chandrasekhar's district Ballia.
7) Ferozepur Cantt-Jammu Tawi express. (Presumably via Jalandhar)
8) Waltair-New Delhi bi-weekly express. (Is it really new? A couple of
years ago the Karnataka express, which then ran by Vijayawada on some
days, used to have Waltair coaches. This was dropped once this train
started running via Daund-Manmad on all days. However, it is not
clear what route this new train will follow. The Chattisgarh Express
also has a few Waltair-bound coaches from Delhi and Amritsar which
divert from Raipur as a link express. Incidentally Waltair was
officially renamed Visakhapatnam recently).
9) Puri-Tirupati weekly express (Again, a revival of a train abolished
about 2 years back, when it became the Howrah- Tirupati express).
10)Porbandar-Wansjaliya passenger.
11)Bombay-New Delhi express with timings either just ahead or just after
the Rajdhani express. If successful, the idea will be tried out on
other ttrunk routes. (Good idea, it can use the existing path of
the Rajdhani).
Details of the extended services were not given.
Other salient points:
Railways plan to introduce EMUs and DMUs in urban areas (a suitably vague
proposal). Computerisation of reservattions has been completed at 9 major
stations, is in an advanced stage at 10 others, and is being extended to
8 others (details not given).
As you can see, even the Times of India did not give full details. Hope
someone who gets some other Indian paper can fill in the gaps.
Sorry for the bad keyboard.
-------
From: vijayb <vijayb@pk705vmg.email
Subject: Re: RAILWAY BUDGET DETAILS
Date: 18 Mar 1991 09:21:00 -0500
Hi,
Thanks for the info, Ajai.
> 1) Express from Secunderabad to ? via Nadikude (sorry, it was missing
> from tthe report)
Most probably to Madras. If so, this route is shorter than the one
adopted by the Charminar Exp. and the Hyderabad-Madras Exp.
> 2) Inter-city express from Bombay to Ahmedabad (is there any special
> significance in the term inter-city?)
The term Inter City usually implies a short-distance day service. It's
high time they introduced such a train between Bombay and Ahmedabad.
I am dying to know the details. I hope it is a superfast train.
> 3) Ranchi-Rourkela express, to link with Bombay- Howrah express.
First direct service between Ranchi and Bombay? Maybe they had some
thru' coaches on the Bombay-Howrah Exp. Have to check back on the Time
Table.
> 4) Bangalore-Tirupati express.
Via BG or MG? Route via MG seems to be shorter.
> 8) Waltair-New Delhi bi-weekly express. (Is it really new? A couple of
> years ago the Karnataka express, which then ran by Vijayawada on some
The H. Nizamuddin - Hypderabad Dakshin Exp. has coaches bound for
Visakhapatnam. These get detached at Kazipet and continue as the Link
Exp. via Vijayawada-Rajahmundry. Maybe, they decided to cancel this Li
nk Exp. and introduce the new train as above.
> 9) Puri-Tirupati weekly express (Again, a revival of a train abolished
> about 2 years back, when it became the Howrah- Tirupati express).
The Tirupati-Puri Exp. started terminating at Howrah soon after the Hwh.
Madras Janata Exp. was cancelled. Thus, a pseudo-Janata Exp. originated
which catered to small stations on the Hwh.-Madras trunk route. The tim
schedule was changed to that of the earlier Janata Exp. Note that this
is a daily train.
>11)Bombay-New Delhi express with timings either just ahead or just afte
> the Rajdhani express. If successful, the idea will be tried out on
> other ttrunk routes. (Good idea, it can use the existing path of
> the Rajdhani).
Interesting. I am not sure what is the advantage of having the timings
just before or after the Rajdhani Exp. Will this run on the non-Rajdhan
day? If so, then it is bound to be a superfast service. Again, I am
dying to know the details, such as halts, time schedule, etc.
Can someone furnish the above requested info? .
Regards,
Vijay
From: Swami srinivasan <swami@chtm.email
Subject: metro- articleonthenet
Date: 18 Mar 1991 09:46:00 -0500
here's something i saw on soc.culture.indian:
Article 48466 of soc.culture.indian:
Path: ariel.unm.edu!news.cs.indiana.edu!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!csri.toronto.edu!srini
From: srini@csri.email (Srinivas Kandala)
Newsgroups: soc.culture.indian
Subject: Tropical trains: The Calcutta Metro
Message-ID: <1991Mar18.124113.22504@jarvis.email
Date: 18 Mar 91 17:41:13 GMT
Organization: CSRI, University of Toronto
Lines: 30
Hi,
There is an article about the Calcutta subway system in
the January 91 issue of IEE Review. It is copyrighted by IEE. So,
I am not sure whether I can reproduce it or not. I have a copy of
it already typed and I don't mind posting it. I would like to
know the opinion of the net gurus regarding this copyright thing.
If you think it is ok, please post (no! don't email. I'm sure the
spool will be swamped by the mail) and I will post it.
Some Excerpts:
For a country with an income of just 175 pounds per year per head, 300
million pounds is a huge investment. But in Calcutta, India's first
metro has been internationally acclaimed.
The U.S. Public Broadcasting System, a non-profit-making television
network partly funded by the US Government, broadcast a survey of the
world's metros, giveing points out of 10 for hours of service, punctuality,
cleanliness and the attitude of the local people towards the system.
..... Only Calcutta scored a straight 10.
Sir Robert Reid, chairman of the British Rail, who visited the construction
sites of the metro and took a ride on it from Esplanade to Tollygunge.
He was quoted as saying: ` I had been told that the Calcutta Metro was the
best in the world; having seen it, I now know that this is true'.
Srini
quite good, ain't it!!!
From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email
Subject: bangalore-tirupati
Date: 19 Mar 1991 18:22:00 -0500
i don't think the current MG route via Salem-Vriddachalam-Villupuram-
Katpadi-Tirupati is shorter than the BG route via Jolarpettai-Katpadi-
Arakkonam bypass. The MG route would certainly take much longer -
the new train is almost surely BG ??
aravind
From: vijayb <vijayb@pk705vmg.email
Subject: Bangalore-Tirupati!
Date: 20 Mar 1991 09:19:00 -0500
Aravind's suggested route seems to be the one. I completely forgot about the
route via Jollarpetai-Katpadi-Renigunta. I was thinking more in terms of the
DHarmavaram-Gooty-Cudappah-Renigunta route.
Vijay
From: apte <apte@glacier.email
Subject: Ramble...
Date: 20 Mar 1991 06:32:00 -0500
Hi everybody,
The Railway budget news was definitely interesting. Like Vijay, I too
am intrigued by the concept of a train just before/after the Rajdhani
timings. Approaching it in a Sherlock Holmes fashion :-), a few
possibilities emerge:
1. It is of Rajdhani speed and runs just before/after the Rajdhani.
PROBLEM: If you have to run 2 high-speed trains, running them so
close to each other makes neither business nor technical sense.
2. Slower than Raj, runs just after Raj, on Raj days.
PROBLEM: If slower, can't stay "just after" for too long. Also
WHY?
3. Slower than Raj, runs just before Raj, on Raj days.
PROBLEM: Will be overtaken, causes unnecessary interference in Raj
schedule.
4. Arbitrary train with timings vaguely around Raj timings, runs on
the 2 non-Raj days.
4 seems to be the most probable.
The new inter-city express between
Ahmadabad and Bombay bears watching. I think I had put this up once
before, but fast day trains have not been too successful on that route.
There was originally a Deluxe Exp, that was discontinued for lack of
patronage, as also was the experiment with the Rajdhani rake - a train
called the "Weekend Express". I've heard it said tongue-in-cheek that
the Gujarathi businessmen like to leave the hustle and bustle of Bombay
behind by sleeping overnight in their favourite Gujrat Mail. :-).
A trivia fact - I think that Gujrat Mail has the largest number of 1st and
higher class bogies among trains in India (with the obvious exception
of Rajdhanis and Shatabdis). And speaking of first-class brings me to
one of the funny anomalies of IR. In day trains such as Flying Rannee,
Gujarat Exp., etc.; there is the "day first-class", which is a
chair-car. The irony is that since this is classified as "1st class"
for fare purposes, one pays more for this Non-AC chair-car than the AC
chair-car, which is ranks as a lower class!
End of ramble - phew!
Cheers
Pushkar
-------
From: vijayb <vijayb@pk705vmg.email
Subject: Continuing on the Ramble...
Date: 20 Mar 1991 14:57:00 -0500
Hi Folks,
Pushkar's mail echoes some of the puzzling facts I have often
pondered about. Is there only type of a I class chair car found on day
trains? The ones I am familiar with are organized very similar to the
AC Chair Cars (without the AC, of course). However, I vaguely remember
having sighted some extra-luxurious I class chair-cars on the Deccan
Queen. These had more widely spaced seats with some extra degree of
comfort. Perhaps someone who has actually traveled on the Deccan Queen
can confirm this. My speculation doesn't make sense from the fare point
of view, as this would lead to different fares for I class.
Anyway, the fact remains that one pays more for traveling on the I class
chair car than on the AC Chair Car. Puzzling indeed!
About the Bombay- New Delhi Exp:-
> It is of Rajdhani speed and runs just before/after the Rajdhani.
> PROBLEM: If you have to run 2 high-speed trains, running them so
> close to each other makes neither business nor technical sense.
This reduces the complexity of scheduling other trains which are
overtaken by the Rajdhani exp., such as goods trains and slower exps.
If two trains were to run close to each other, say, at a ~30 mt.
interval, then a single halt is sufficient for a particular train to
give precedence to both the faster trains. This also minimizes time
spent on precedence crossings.
>. Slower than Raj, runs just before Raj, on Raj days.
> PROBLEM: Will be overtaken, causes unnecessary interference in Raj
> schedule.
This is the only way in which a slower train can be made to stay decentl
close to the Raj. timings at least for some portion of the common route.
Overtaking can be arranged at one of the regular halts of the slower
train. e.g. the Howrah Raj. overtakes the Deluxe Exp. in the intial
N.Delhi-Kanpur stretch itself. Tundla used to be the precedence halt
for quite sometime.
>. Arbitrary train with timings vaguely around Raj timings, runs on
> the 2 non-Raj days.
Makes sense. Note that the Bombay Raj. now runs on six days a week, so
this would have to be a weekly train. But if this train were to be
much slower than the Raj., then this could drastically change the time
schedules of some other trains on the non-Rajdhani day.
>A trivia fact - I think that Gujrat Mail has the largest number of 1st nd
>higher class bogies among trains in India (with the obvious exception
>of Rajdhanis and Shatabdis). And speaking of first-class brings me to
True. A friend told me that it has five I class coaches (the sleeper
type). Plus it has AC 2-tier sleeper (I think, two of them) and
AC I class service.
Regards,
Vijay
From: anand <anand@top.email
Subject: Re: Continuing on the Ramble...
Date: 20 Mar 1991 15:05:00 -0500
>A trivia fact - I think that Gujrat Mail has the largest number of 1st nd
>higher class bogies among trains in India (with the obvious exception
>of Rajdhanis and Shatabdis). And speaking of first-class brings me to
True. A friend told me that it has five I class coaches (the sleeper
type). Plus it has AC 2-tier sleeper (I think, two of them) and
AC I class service.
This surprises me. In the old days (before Tamil Nadu Express) the GT
express had at least 5 Madras-NewDelhi first class coaches, plus one for
Waltair.
Anand
anand@top.email
From: apte <apte@glacier.email
Subject: Re: Ramble..
Date: 20 Mar 1991 12:23:00 -0500
>From Vijay's mail:-
> It is of Rajdhani speed and runs just before/after the Rajdhani.
> PROBLEM: If you have to run 2 high-speed trains, running them so
> close to each other makes neither business nor technical sense.
>> This reduces the complexity of scheduling other trains which are
>> overtaken by the Rajdhani exp., such as goods trains and slower exps.
>> If two trains were to run close to each other, say, at a ~30 mt.
>> interval, then a single halt is sufficient for a particular train to
>> give precedence to both the faster trains. This also minimizes time
>> spent on precedence crossings.
I agree that it eases scheduling problems for other trains, although I
have some difficulty visualizing a slower express train stopping at a
station for a really long time (min 45-50 mins for a 30 min interval
bet. the faster trains) to allow both trains to pass. But, and
I am guessing here, isn't it more taxing on the signalling system to
have two superfast trains running in close proximity? Also, delay of
one would invariably mean delay of the other. Not that the punctuality
is much to write home about anyway, :-) ...
Also, Anand writes:-
>This surprises me. In the old days (before Tamil Nadu Express) the GT
>express had at least 5 Madras-NewDelhi first class coaches, plus one for
>Waltair.
I don't have any knowledge of the composition of the G.T. Express and
what you say may well be the case. Also, the Deluxe/AC Expresses
between Bombay/Howrah and N. Delhi have lots of higher class coaches,
but not that many first-class ones. So the Gujarat Mail may be only a
joint topper, but its still up there !
Cheers
Pushkar
-------
From: vijayb <vijayb@pk705vmg.email
Subject: Train scheduling
Date: 21 Mar 1991 09:03:00 -0500
Hi,
Running two superfast trains close to each other should not place excessive
strain on the signalling system as long as there is sufficient gap between the
two. A problem occurs when the train in front is slower and overtaking needs
to be done. The train in front would have to be halted at a particular stn.,
while allowing sufficient time for the faster train to overtake it. I have oft
en witnessed trains getting delayed at outer signals because of the slower trai
n in front.
This technique of running trains with similar speeds, in a batch, is adopted
on heavily congested routes. e.g. On the N.Delhi-Kanpur section, fast trains
such as the Magadh Vikramshila Exp., Tinsukia Mail and Vaishali Exp.
are placed one after the other.
Vijay
From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email
Subject: query
Date: 21 Mar 1991 13:19:00 -0500
Pushkar writes:
>Not that the punctuality is much to write home about anyway, :-)
can anyone report on how punctual the trains are today - especially
the more prestigious ones? are they routinely several hours late
(thus making nonsense of the timetables) ???
aravind
From: Ajai Banerji <A.AJAI@Macbeth.Email
Subject: Railway jargon
Date: 29 Mar 1991 22:38:00 -0500
Railway Jargon
This is inspired by the earlier discussion on code names for stations.
The railways do have their own peculiar jargon. Knowledge of this comes
in useful for frequent travellers-as it may make railway staff think
you have some connection with their bosses.
A small example. While at Kanpur I had to travel to Saharanpur now and
then. One had to fill out a reservation form for a reservation upto
Ghaziabad and then write at the top "Journey ticket to Saharanpur via
Ghaziabad"- quite a mouthful. I used to scribble JT to SRE via GZB on
the top-at any rate, the railway babus at Kanpur Central who usually
work at a snail's pace seemed to take considerably less time for my
booking compared to others.
Here are some examples of "illogical" railway ststion codes. As you
will see, some can be explained by old names, but others are still
illogical.
Present name Old name Code
Kanpur Central Cawnpore CNB
Varanasi Jn Benares Cantt BSB
Bangalore City Same SBC
Itarsi Same ET
Arakkonam Arkonam AJJ
Ernakulam Jn Ernakulam South ERS
Vijayawada Bezwada BZW
Ahmedabad Same ADI
Pune Poona PA
Patna Bankipore? PNBE
Although 3-letter codes are most common, there are also several with
2 and 4 letter codes.
Airport codes have to take into account the requirement that all cities
in the world served by scheduled flights must have distinct codes- so
that your luggage is not sent to Madrid instead of Madras. A few examples
of airport codes in India: BOM, DEL, CCU, MAA
There can be unconscious humor in these codes. For example, Devi Lal
should be proud that Jammu Tawi station is JAT. Those with a dirty mind
may like to fly to Cochin (COK). Or they might take a train to Meerut
Cantt (or maybe it was Meerut City) i.e.MUT- all the more surprising in
a Hindi-speaking area.
More PJs on the railways date to the pre-independence days when there
were numerous railways with rather grandiose titles like the Great Indian
Peninsular Railway, Bengal Nagpur Railway, Bombay Baroda and Central India
Railway, Madras and Southern Mahratta Railway and so on. These led to
nicknames like:
GIP: Great Improvement Possible
BNR: Bribes Never Refused
BB&CI: Beastly, Bad and Cannot Improve
M&SM: Mails Slowly Moving
The most grandiose title undoubtedly was His Exalted Highness the
Nizam's Guaranteed State Railway. No nickname for this is recorded.
-------
From: Ajai Banerji <A.AJAI@Macbeth.Email
Subject: Railway news
Date: 06 Apr 1991 18:30:00 -0500
Railway news
From Times of India
A new daily express will start running between Bombay VT and Varanasi. It
will take about 29 hours.
Electrification of Itarsi-Nagpur will be completed in April, thereby
completing the Delhi-Madras link.
Electrification of Bhusaval-Itarsi is expected to be completed by 1991-92,
and Bina-Katni by 1992-93. Electrification of Diva-Panvel will be completed
by Dec 1991.
-------
From: vijayb <vijayb@pk705vmg.email
Subject: Re: Railway news
Date: 08 Apr 1991 10:23:00 -0500
> A new daily express will start running between Bombay VT and Varanasi It
> will take about 29 hours.
29 hours seems an awful lot of time. What bugs me is why can't a
superfast train be introduced that covers the distance in < 23 hrs.
I suspect that this train is nothing but a daily version of
the tri-weekly Ratnagiri Exp.
> Electrification of Itarsi-Nagpur will be completed in April, thereby
> completing the Delhi-Madras link.
-92,
No news about electrification of Bhusaval-Itarsi? Has this been ted
postponed or what? I would also like to find out whether the Itarsi-
Nagpur section has been completely doubled.
Once the Itarsi-Nagpur section is completely electrified, North-South ains wil
trains will no longer have
to change locos. at Nagpur and Itarsi. The Tamilnadu Exp. and AP Exp.
can resume "ignoring" Itarsi. Also trains bound for UP/Bihar such as th
Ganga Kaveri Exp. and the Varanasi-Tirupati Exp. can now have the loco.
change-over at Itarsi instead of Kazipet.
As regards the Indrail pass, I had posted a note quite a while back i
sci. I wonder whether anyone has a copy of it. I have the file saved o
tape, but I need a tape-drive to load it onto the system here.
Regards,
Vijay
From: apte <apte@glacier.email
Subject: Museum in Dallas
Date: 11 Apr 1991 07:06:00 -0500
Hi there,
Happy Springtime to everybody! I thought I'd post a brief note that I
had been meaning to write for a while. On a recent visit to Dallas, I
visited their railroad museum. Its not a very well-managed facility,
nor is it particularly large. But they do claim to have the HEAVIEST
steam locomotive and the most powerful diesel loco "in the world".
(Whether "world" means Texas or the U.S. was not clear to me :-)) The
steam loco is 1.2 MILLION pounds, I have forgotten the BHP of the
diesel one. Whether or not they are the tops in their respective
categories, these things are certainly fun to go thru and look at. Are
there any other such museums in U.S. cities?
Cheers
Pushkar
-------
From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email
Subject: museums
Date: 11 Apr 1991 12:47:00 -0500
I've been to a few rail museums here, one in Sacramento and one in
San Diego. Also, the Museum of Science and Industry in Chicago has
a railroad section...
The Sacramento museum has some retired rolling stock, if I remember
right. It also chronicles in detail the laying of the first trans-
Sierra railroad (my memories of it are quite vague)
The San Diego museum has some interesting HO scale models, including
a landscaped model of a small portion of the Techachapi crossing
east of Bakersfield in California. It seems like practically every
railway in the west is associated with some story or the other...
Regards,
Aravind