IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 341 - 360
From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email
Subject:
Date: 15 Nov 1990 15:02:00 -0500
is renigunta - tirupati also electrified? (this is a 10 km stub
connecting tirupati with the main lines thru renigunta)
From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>
Subject: Short run trains.
Date: 15 Nov 1990 14:14:00 -0500
I am surprised that nobody has mentioned my favorite train
that is an express train and runs both ways in 24 hours.
It is Gomti Exp. between Delhi and Lucknow. There was
a time when it was non-stop between Delhi and Kanpur.
-dheeraj
From: anand <anand@top.email
Subject:
Date: 16 Nov 1990 00:51:00 -0500
Tirupati to Renigunta is indeed electrified. The Saptagiri express from
Madras to Tirupati East has to reverse at Renigunta however.
R. Anand
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email
Subject:
Date: 15 Nov 1990 14:19:00 -0500
Hi,
I was going to mention the Gomti Exp. during my discussion of short runs
from Delhi. In fact, this was the second train, after the Rajdhani, to
traverse the New Delhi - Kanpur section non-stop. It was also the second
fastest train in that section till the North-East Exp. was introduced.
It now plays second fiddle to the other N.Delhi-Lucknow day exp., the Shatabdi,
and halts at Aligarh, Tundla and Etawah.
The Renigunta-Tirupati section is fully electrified. Tirupati has been
included among the five stations to be remodeled in the SC railway. The
estimated cost is ~Rs. 1.79 crore. The other four stations are Bellary,
Hyderabad, Nanded and Vijayawada.
I have finished reading thru' the extremely informative April issue of
Indian Railways. It is a special issue on "137 years of Indian Railways",
and discusses about recent developments in our system (focussed on the past
few decades) including IR Finances, Track Technologies, Electrical and Electronics. Engg., Railway Electrification and so on.
And then there are articles from the general managers of the various zonal
rlys. as also other set-ups such as CLW, DLW, IRCON, CRIS (Center for Information Systems), Metro, WAP (Wheel and Axle Plant), etc. I would recommend this
magazine to every IR enthusiast. You just need to write to:
Mr. Manohar D. Banerjee, Editor
Indian Railways,
Room No. 411, Rail Bhavan,
New Delhi - 110001
The price of this special issue is Rs. 10. BTW, the yearly foreign
subscription rate is just $ 8.5. The irritating part is: the magazines are
dispatched by sea-mail.
Regards,
Vijay
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email
Subject: Yetunnader Shatabdi (just a fantasy)
Date: 17 Nov 1990 09:56:00 -0500
Hi Folks,
Let me introduce you to one of my favorite thought trains from Bombay viz.,
another Shatabdi Exp. I would LOVE to see this fantasy turn into reality.
1. Name: Shatabdi Exp. (Bombay Central - Ahmedabad)
2. Status: Superfast; completely vestibuled, air-conditoned and reserved
3. Rake organization: Similar to the other three Shatabdi Exps viz.,
Blue and White color (with an extra white strip just
below the windows)
Nine coaches, consisting of six AC II Chair Cars,
one AC I Chair Car and two luggage-cum-generator cars
4. Halts: Bombay Central -> Surat, Vadodara <- Ahmedabad
5. Approx. time schedule
Dn. Up
Kms. Ex. | /-\
Bombay Central \_/ Stations |
------------------------------------------------
. 6 00 d Bombay Central a 21 50
263 9 03 a Surat d 18 45
9 08 d a 18 40
392 10 27 a Vadodara d 17 21
10 37 d a 17 11
492 12 00 a Ahmedabad d 15 50
------------------------------------------------
7. Purpose: Provides fast, day service between Bombay and Ahmedabad,
via the important cities of Surat and Baroda.
8. Degree of prestige: Is the fastest train in its route.
Has a high commercial speed of 82 kmph. between Bombay and Ahmedabad.
Has a reasonably high average inter-halt distance of 164 km.
Ignores (reasonably) important halts such as Valsad, Bharuch & Anand.
9. Frequency: Is a daily train.
10. Locomotive used: It is hauled by an upgraded version of the WDM-2
diesel-electric locomotive, similar to what is used
for the Bombay-Delhi Rajdhani Exp. The loco. has the
same color as the coaches.
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email
Subject: Short runs from Delhi!
Date: 18 Nov 1990 13:47:00 -0500
Hi Folks,
Here is the list from Delhi (distances < 500 km.).
s - superfast, ac - AC Chair Car service, n - overnight train
el - hauled by electric loco. throughout
^From New Delhi:
1. Shatabdi Exp.(to Lucknow): s, ac, blue-n-white color (including locos)
2. Gomti Exp.(to Lucknow): s, ac
3. Prayagraj Exp.(to Allahabad): s, n, el (distance traveled = 627 km.)
4. Kalindi Exp.(to Farrukhabad): n
5. Lucknow Mail (to Lucknow): n
6. N.Delhi-Ludhiana Superfast Exp.(to Ludhiana): s, ac
7. Shalimar Exp.(to Jammu Tawi): n (distance traveled < 650 km.)
8. Shatabdi Exp.(to Bhopal): s, ac, el, blue-n-white color (including loco)
(distance traveled = 701 km.)
9. Taj Exp.(to Agra/Gwalior): s, ac, el, blue-n-white color (including loco)
10. N.Delhi-Bhiwani Exp.(to Bhiwani):
11. Shatabdi Exp.(to Kalka): s, ac, el, blue-n-white color (including loco)
12. Himalayan Queen Exp.(to Kalka): ac
13. Shan-e-Punjab Exp.(to Amritsar): s, ac
14. N.Delhi-Amritsar Exp.(to Amritsar): s
15. Flying Mail (to Amritsar):
^From Delhi:
1. Delhi-Bareilly Exp.(to Bareilly):
2. Mussoorie Exp.(to Dehra Dun): n
3. Delhi-Saharanpur Exp.(to Saharanpur):
4. Himachal Exp.(to Nangal Dam): n
5. Jammu Tawi Mail (to Jammu Tawi): n (distance traveled ~590 km.)
6. Pink City Exp.(to Jaipur): s (used to have a Pink Color, but later
employed the blue colored coaches of the Cholan Exp.)
7. Haryana Exp.(to Hisar)
8. Shekawati Exp.(to Jaipur): n
9. Bikaner Exp.(to Bikaner):
10. Bikaner Mail (to Bikaner): n
..........................................................................
Vijay
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email
Subject: Correction
Date: 18 Nov 1990 13:59:00 -0500
The Kalka Shatabdi Exp. is hauled by a diesel loco. and NOT an elec. loco.
My apologies for the mistake.
Vijay
From: anand <anand@top.email
Subject: Loco sheds
Date: 19 Nov 1990 01:23:00 -0500
I have enjoyed reading Vijay's listing of short distance trains. So now
for something completely different...
I wonder if we can list the major Diesel loco sheds. Thae name of the
base shed is usually painted under the serial number. Here are a few
that I can remember off-hand:
Southern Erode
South Central Kazipet
Central Tuglakhabad (probably changed since the section has
been electrified)
Itarsi
Western Ratlam
It is probably not a coincidence that the loco sheds are generally located
near the centers of each railway. Does someone know the other
locations?
By the way, is the engine for Madras-Hew Delhi trains still changed at
Itarsi?
There used to be wonderful steam loco shed at Arakonam (on the Madras
side). It was very busy in the days when the commuter trains between
Madras and Arakonam were steam hauled. I used to be on the look out for
it when travelling from Bombay to Madras by the Dadar express. Sad to
say, of course, the shed is long since gone, replaced now by the
characterless electrics. Call me nostalgic but I dont think an engine
is an engine unless it emits smoke.
--
R. Anand
anand@top.email
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email
Subject: Re: Loco sheds
Date: 18 Nov 1990 22:26:00 -0500
Hi Folks,
These are some diesel sheds I remember off hand.
Southern Gooty (I had a seen a photo of a blue colored diesel loco.
which had hauled the Bombay-Madras Mail when it
was dieselized, in early 1970's)
Central Katni
Jhansi
Northern/Eastern Mughal Sarai (this had a special maintanence shed for
the WDM-4 when it hauled the Rajdhani)
Following are some of the elec. loco. sheds (incidently, my favorite of all
locos. is the AC elec loco.)
Central Bhusaval (the largest for Central Rly.)
Igatpuri (for DC locos.)
Western Valsad (a new shed for AC-DC locos.)
Vadodara (the regular AC-DC loco. shed)
Northern Ghaziabad (houses the WAP-1 and WAP-3 high speed locos.)
Kanpur Central (handles WAG-4 eight-axled locos. The May
issue of IR reports that this workshop
has achieved successfull substitution of vacuum
brakes by air-brakes for many of these locos.)
Mughal Sarai (another huge shed/workshop)
Eastern Asansol (caters to the WAG1-3, and WAP-2 eight-axled locos.)
South Central Vijayawada
> By the way, is the engine for Madras-Hew Delhi trains still changed at
> Itarsi?
I believe so. The Sept. issue of Bradshaw still shows almost all the trains
stopping at Itarsi for 15-20 mts.
Regards,
Vijay
P.S. Here is a question I have been pondering about for sometime. Which exp./
mail has the least no. of halts (between terminii)? Wouldn't be a bit
surprised if it were the N.Delhi-Lucknow Shatabdi Exp. (just a lone halt
at Kanpur Central)!
As far as the max. no. of halts are concerned, strong contenders would
be the Jammu Tawi Sealdah Exp., the Dadar Amritsar Exp., the
Delhi Howrah Janata Exp., and the Sabarmati Exp.
From: anand <anand@top.email
Subject: Train with most stops
Date: 19 Nov 1990 17:09:00 -0500
I would definitely nominate the Valsad express between Bombay Central
and Valsad. On the timetable at least the train looks more like a
passenger than an express. After Virar, it seems to stop at every
station until Valsad!
The Madras-Jolarpettai Express is in my opinion another misnomer. Judging
by the timetable, I would have called it a fast-passenger rather than an
express.
R. Anand
anand@top.email
From: aravind <aravind@vax135.email
Subject: misc
Date: 19 Nov 1990 10:23:00 -0500
Diesel Sheds (BG) - at Krishnarajapuram (outside Bangalore)
and Erode in SR
(MG) at Golden Rock (outside Tiruchi) in SR
The BG shed at Gooty is in the SCR now, along with its counterpart MG
shed at Guntakal ... There is another SCR diesel shed at
Vishakapatnam.
I would nominate the MG Bangalore-Miraj "Mail" as the train with the
most stops between Bangalore and Hubli.
It actually changes its designation to "Passenger"
between Hubli and Miraj.
From: Manish Malhotra <malhotra@cs.email
Subject: Re: Trains with most stops
Date: 19 Nov 1990 11:30:00 -0500
Vadodra - Mathura passenger could also be the one.
(If it stops at every station, then it might be the winner)
Which is the longest distance passenger train ?
The time-table wizards can find the answer.
Besides, which are the highly dense sections on Indian
Railways in terms of stations ? MP has many dense sections.
Ratlam-Baroda doesn't seem to that dense.
Delhi-kanpur also doesn't seem that dense. (Though I may be wrong since
I have always taken a fast train on this route )
:- Manish
From: J Mukerji <jis@mtgzy.email
Subject: Re: Eastern Railway introduces DMU(?) service
Date: 19 Nov 1990 17:14:00 -0500
Excerpts from soc.culture.indian: 16-Nov-90 Re : Eastern Railway
introduces DMU(?) service by THS1@psuvm.email. (504)
> I saw a news item in an issue of Prabasi Anandabazar (several weeks old)
> describing a new type of rake introduced in the Sealdah-Hasnabad section.
> The rake is made up from conventional coaches modified in the Liluah
> workshop of E.R. The motive power comes from a Diesel loco at the middle
> of the rake. The coaches at both ends have control equipment.
> The report did not mention whether WDM series or WDS series engine is used.
> The advantage of this push-pull rake is obvious: it permits efficient
> suburban service in sections where traffic load does not justify
> electrification. One hopes this service would become available in other
> non-electrified suburban sections as well. The report touts this as the
> introduction of Diesel Multiple Unit service in India. I believe that
> claim is wrong on two counts: a) this rake is not a true multiple unit,
> because there is a separate locomotive, b) some metre gauge sections have
> been using Diesel railcars for years.
> ths.
I wonder why they place the locomotive in the middle, and not at one
end. This way they need only one cab car, since at the other end the
locomotive's cab can be used for running the train. Around New York
NJTransit runs trains with a diesel or electric locomotive at one end
and a cab car at the other end, and these trains run at upto 90mph. I
understand the same practice is followed in Boston by MBTA, Long Island
by LIRR, New York by Metro North Commuter Railroad, Baltimore -
Washington by MARC, Chicago by METRA, Atlantic City, San Diego etc, by
Amtrak and San Francisco by Caltrans. They are even talking of running
Metroliners at 125mph in this fashion. NJTransit has actually come to
the conclusion that push-pull trains are more cost effective than MUs
even in eletrified sections, since there are fewer things that need to
be maintained in them.
Jishnu Mukerji
jis@mtgzy.email
Jishnu Mukerji,
jis@mtgzy.email
+1 908 957 5986,
AT&T Bell Laboratories,
MT 3K-423, 200 Laurel Ave.,
Middletown NJ 07748
From: anand <anand@top.email
Subject: Re: Eastern Railway introduces DMU(?) service
Date: 20 Nov 1990 17:10:00 -0500
I was looking through the Marklin catalog recently and noticed that the
DB (Deutche Bahn) also use push-pull sets for suburban survices in many
German cities. Marklin a German manufacturer of model railroads.
The catalogs themselves are beautifully produced and great fun to look
over. The prices are incredible. An engine costs about $200!
This reminds of a long held dream of mine. I was given a large British
train set (Triang-Hornby) when I was young which probably explains my
interest in railways. I had several locomotives including a Flying
Scotsman (which was a Gresley A3 pacific). It was great fun playing
with it since I had a fairly large layout but I always wished that I had
an Indian train-set. It would be just wonderful if there were an
accurate HO scale system with WDM2s and WPs. I have therefore set myself
a very long term goal of scratch building such a system.
The WDM2 would probably not be too difficult to make since it is fairly
close in construction to a GP-9 road switcher but a a proper HO scale WP
would be a real challenge.
All this will unfortunately have to wait until I have more time and money!
R. Anand
anand@top.email
From: Ajai Banerji <A.AJAI@Macbeth.Email
Subject: Expresses with many stops
Date: 20 Nov 1990 16:48:00 -0500
Here are a few more expresses with many stops:
Howrah-Delhi Janata
Howrah-Amritsar Express(NOT the Mail)
Howrah-Bombay Express
Howrah-Tirupati Express
Varanasi-Dehradun Express
Malabar Express(Trivandrum- Mangalore)
Saurashtra Express(Bombay-Okha)
Chhatisgarh Express(Amritsar-Bilaspur)
-------
From: anand <anand@top.email
Subject: Re: Expresses with many stops
Date: 21 Nov 1990 05:35:00 -0500
What about the Dadar-Nagpur Maharashtra express. I remember from the
Central Railway timetable that between Bhusaval and Nagpur that train
seemed to stop at just about every station.
I have a question about the DC electrified section on Central Railway
near Bombay. Just like at Virar, where DC gives way to AC, does the same
thing happen at Igatpuri or Bhusaval?
R. Anand
anand@top.email
From: Vijay Balasubramanian <vbs@plumpy.email
Subject: This and that!
Date: 20 Nov 1990 21:07:00 -0500
Jishnu writes:
> I wonder why they place the locomotive in the middle, and not at one
> end. This way they need only one cab car, since at the other end the
This might be to maintain the symmetry of the rake as a whole, so that
the loco. need not change ends (as would be the case if it were placed in
front). Since the diesel loco. is a dedicated one, this makes sense.
Anand writes:
> I was looking through the Marklin catalog recently and noticed that the
> DB (Deutche Bahn) also use push-pull sets for suburban survices in many
> German cities. Marklin a German manufacturer of model railroads.
I had a look at it about 6 years back, and it's just great! What I love most
is the presence of neat electric traction structures complete with poles
and catenaries. Of course, the current to the motor is fed thru' the rails.
Ajai writes:
> Chhatisgarh Express(Amritsar-Bilaspur)
This is one of those wierd trains that are quite slow in some sections and
somewhat fast in others. This train is reasonably fast in the N.Delhi-Itarsi
stretch, but is atrociously slow in the Ambala Cant.-Amritsar section.
Earlier this used to run between H.Nizamuddin and Bilaspur. Believe it or not,
this train is vestibuled and even has a buffet/pantry car!
I have counted the no. of stops for three of the "slow" trains, so far,
and here are the results:
Hwh.-Delhi Janata Exp. 107 halts
Dadar-Amritsar Exp. 88 "
Sabarmati Exp. 77 "
Looks like our Janata exp. might emerge the "winner".
Some other long-distance exps./mails with
relatively low avg. inter-halt distance are the
Bombay - Firozpur Janata Exp., the Bombay - Dehra Dun Exp., the Bombay -
Bhagalpur/Chhapra Exps., the Sealdah - Mughal Sarai Exp. (the restricted
version of the extinct Upper India Exp.), the Bombay Madras Mail (how I
HATE this!), and the Madras - Bokaro Steel City Exp.
Anand writes:
> What about the Dadar-Nagpur Maharashtra express. I remember from the
> Central Railway timetable that between Bhusaval and Nagpur that train
> seemed to stop at just about every station.
This train seems to be reaonably okay in the Bhusaval Nagpur section. It so
happens that even the prestigous Bombay - Howrah Mail (via Nagpur) has about
10 halts in this section (Malkapur, Jalamb, Shegaon, Akola, Murtajapur,
Badnera, Dhamangaon, Pulgaon, Wardha, Wardha East(in Up. dirn. only), if my
memory serves me right). However, the Maharashtra Exp. slows down quite
a bit in the Pune Miraj section.
> I have a question about the DC electrified section on Central Railway
> near Bombay. Just like at Virar, where DC gives way to AC, does the same
> thing happen at Igatpuri or Bhusaval?
This happens at Igatpuri. However, all trains stop here for change of
locos. unlike Virar, where the AC-DC loco. runs on its own momentum thru'
the station, with its pantographs lowered.
.............................................................................
Regards,
Vijay
From: Atul A. Patankar <patankar@ms.email
Subject:
Date: 21 Nov 1990 00:04:00 -0500
R. Anand asks:
>I have a question about the DC electrified section on Central Railway
>near Bombay. Just like at Virar, where DC gives way to AC, does the same
>thing happen at Igatpuri or Bhusaval?
Yes, the Bombay to Igatpuri traction is DC and the Igatpuri to Bhusaval
traction is AC. I have watched this engine change many times while
traveling to and from Kharagpur. I remember that there was a switch
mounted on the overhead lines (operated remotely, of course) which
used to toggle the AC/DC tractions. Are there engines that can take on
both AC and DC tractions?
Atul.
From: J Mukerji <jis@mtgzy.email
Subject: Re:
Date: 21 Nov 1990 07:45:00 -0500
Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 20-Nov-90 V. Balasubramanian@plump (3036)
> Jishnu writes:
> > I wonder why they place the locomotive in the middle, and not at one
> > end. This way they need only one cab car, since at the other end the
> This might be to maintain the symmetry of the rake as a whole, so that
> the loco. need not change ends (as would be the case if it were placed in
> front). Since the diesel loco. is a dedicated one, this makes sense.
>
But that is the whole point! In the push-pull operations that I have
seen with the loco
at one end, the loco does >>not<< change ends. In the pull mode it is in
the front and
its cab is used by the driver, in the push mode it is in the rear of the
train and the cab
control car in the front of the train is used by the driver. So I still
do not understand the
reason for placing the loco in the middle of the train. It seems that
one would want to
place the loco at a location in the train from where it is easy to take
it off to replace
it or send it for servicing without breaking the rake ...... Oh well.
Of course in trains that do not have corridor connections between
coaches, such as on
local trains in India, placing a loco in the middle of the train is not
as disruptive as
placing one in the middle of a train that is corridored, as are the
push-pull commuter
trains in the USA.
Jishnu Mukerji,
jis@mtgzy.email
+1 908 957 5986,
AT&T Bell Laboratories,
MT 3K-423, 200 Laurel Ave.,
Middletown NJ 07748
From: apte <apte@glacier.email
Subject: Classification of Trains as Superfast
Date: 21 Nov 1990 07:49:00 -0500
Thanx to all those who complemented my initial short-run superfast expresses
list. The discussion on trains with most stops was enjoyable. Of
these the Sabarmati Express has always been the most mystifying to me.
Why have the only daily train connecting Ahmadabad/Baroda to important
cities like Jhansi, Kanpur, Lucknow etc. go thru the pain of being a
passenger train in stretches? Surely people going to smaller stations
can take connecting local passenger trains from bigger stations! As
Spock would say, most illogical. As many have pointed out, these
trains with many stops are perched precariously on the verge of
F.P./Express. In most cases tha railways rip you off by charging
Express fares. Rarely (for instance Dehradun Exp between
Baroda-Mathura and more recently Valsad Express) - do they admit that
the trains are actually F.P.s
An even bigger scam, in my opinion, is the classification of trains as
Superfast. Some of the superfast trains such as those linking the
Metropolises, the legendary short-run expresses which we covered and a
few other trains such as the Bombay-Jammu Tawi Superfast Express, do
indeed give you value for your "Extra Superfast Surcharge".
Several times, however, you are simply ripped off because the particular
railway chose to call the train Superfast. I'll give a few examples
and I am sure there will be several others. The Bombay-Delhi
Deluxe/Paschim Express and Frontier Mail have loads of stops, they
cover the distance in 22-24 hours (an average speed of 57-62 kmph)
which is nothing exceptional; and yet they are "Superfast". The
relatively new Bombay-Varanasi Tri-weekly "Superfast" Expresses and
Bombay-Gwalior Express have less stops but their timings make them
apologies for ordinary expresses. Superfast, Tchah!
Ideally, the railways should be forced to declare some objective
criteria for classifying a train as superfast. Average speed and/or
percentage time gain over the next fastest train, come to mind.
But the level of consumer awareness being low in general in India, I
guess the railways will keep getting away with this subtle con-job.
Cheers and Happy Thanksgiving
Pushkar
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