IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 3201 - 3220
From: FyffesFL <>
Subject: Re: Argentina steam:
Date: 20 Jul 1998 06:03:26 -0500
re advanced 2-10-2 on 76cm gauge
yes, these locos do still exist, although about to go out of service,
being
replaced by diesels - give me a day or so and I'll dig out some of the
recent
articles on them- let me have your surface mail address so I can send
copies
richard yudin
From: Jishnu Mukerji <>
Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams, Polley troles, and the like
Date: 20 Jul 1998 08:06:17 -0500
Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E. Heath wrote:
> Calcutta tramways have had three waves of closures: the Howrah
system
> (3 lines) closed in 1970-71, the Nimtollah line went in 1973, and some
time
> in the last 5 years or so, the branch to the High Court and the line
over
> the Howrah Bridge to Howrah Station were closed. There is now no
trackage
> west of BBD Bag (Dalhousie Square). On the other hand, the Behala line
on
> Diamond Harbour Road was extended to Joka (some 15km) and a new line
was
> built to Ultdanga (though it had been intended to go to the airport.)
> Cheers
> Ken Walker
In addition the Esplanade - Kalighat line was discontinued in two stages
as
the Metro was constructed. In the first phase Jatin Das Park to Birla
Planetarium was discontinued. A turnaround loop was setup at Birla
Planetarium
so that service could be run from Esplanade to there. This service was
later
discontinued with the completion of the Metro to Esplanade and tracks
lifted.
Kalighat to Esplanade trams now go via Kidderpore and across the Maidan,
as
does 24 from Ballygunj to Esplanade via Kalighat.
Also with the branch to High Court, also went the line on Strand Road
Cheers,
Jishnu.
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E. Heath <>
Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams, Polley troles, and the like
Date: 20 Jul 1998 10:54:47 -0500
Hi Anne,
Fischer bows are a bit hard to describe. Think of a rectangular
framework
about 30" wide, sprung at the bottom, and widening out rather gracefully
at
the top to a width of perhaps 6ft or so. The top is slightly curved,
with a
"pan" to run on the contact wire. They were much used on the Continent
(Europe, that is) and also in places such as Glasgow and Hobart. Their
advantages over trolleypoles were twofold: firstly, they didn't dewire,
and
secondly, they could be reversed automatically. A special slack section
of
wire was provided at the terminus, and when the car reversed, the bow
simply flopped over. Earlier, even more primitive bows were quite common
in
the early days of tramways, and can still be seen on the Snaefell
Mountain
Railway in the Isle of Man. Despite the name, that is actually a 3ft6in
gauge electric line, with a Fell centre rail for braking. The IoM is
well
worth a visit, actually, if you can catch good weather there: an 1890s
3ft
gauge interurban tramway, a Victorian steam railway, AND the SMR! There
are
other bizarre current collectors: CTA's Skokie Swift service for some
years
used a curious device which looked like two trolley-poles side by side,
with a regular pantograph-type pan at the top. I've no Idea what they
were
called, but the fans referred to them as "panto-poles"! Nowadays,
pantos
are lighter and much more practical for tramways, so are becoming
increasingly common.
Calcutta tramways have had three waves of closures: the Howrah
system
(3 lines) closed in 1970-71, the Nimtollah line went in 1973, and some
time
in the last 5 years or so, the branch to the High Court and the line
over
the Howrah Bridge to Howrah Station were closed. There is now no
trackage
west of BBD Bag (Dalhousie Square). On the other hand, the Behala line
on
Diamond Harbour Road was extended to Joka (some 15km) and a new line was
built to Ultdanga (though it had been intended to go to the airport.)
Cheers
Ken Walker
----------
> > Do visit Calcutta for the trams and keep a couple of days aside just
to
do the
> > trams.
>
>
> Unfortunately, when I was in calcutta all I got were a few glimpses.
>
> If memory serves, there's a tram line across the Howrah bridge. Or is
> that IR?
>
>
>
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E. Heath <>
Subject: HELP SAVE THE DARJEELING HIMALAYA RAILWAY
Date: 20 Jul 1998 11:17:17 -0500
HELP SAVE THE
DARJEELING HIMALAYAN RAILWAY
The famous Darjeeling Himalayan Railway suffered serious decline
during
the 1970s and 1980s. Road transport competition, declining receipts and
poor maintenance all contributed to falling quality of service.
In 1994 some far-sighted local businessmen began efforts to prevent
closure and dismantling. The Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Heritage
Foundation tapped broad support from businesses, politicans, and
citizens.
Consultation with Indian railwaymen and preservation societies in
Britain
elicited technical and organisational help.
Now the rehabilitation of the DHR is in sight; a new tourist train
and
new services are due to be launched in May 2000. The railway will
continue
to provide local services, and will add new facilities for Indian and
foreign tourists. Major refurbishing of infrastructure is contemplated.
In Britain and India, loose coalitions of active preservationists and
railwaymen -- the "Friends of the DHR" -- support the rehabilitation
work.
In Britain, a Darjeeling Himalayan Railway Society has been formed to
promote public interest in the railway.
But there is still an awful lot to do, and your help is essential. If
you are interested in seeing the DHR survive, join or help organise a
group
in your area. A DHR Society already exists in Britain, and Societies are
being set up in Australia and North America. If you are in these areas,
contact one of the addresses below:
Australia:
DHRS(A) c/o Dr. K.J. Walker, 56, Borden St., Sherwood, Qld. 4075.
Fax: 61 7 3278 1805 E-mail: kjw_meh-darjeeling@@powerup.email
Web page: <A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh</A>
North America:
DHRS(NA) c/o Elizabeth J. Clarke, 35 Front Street South, Suite 2106
Mississauga, Ontario, L5H 2C6, Canada,
Tel: (905)891-3564 Fax: (905)891-3656 E-mail:
ejc@@mail.email
U.K.
DHRS(UK), c/o M. Metz, 80, Ridge Rd., London, N8 9NR, England, U.K.
E-mail: m.metz@pro-net.email
From: Heinrich Hubbert <>
Subject: Re: Argentina steam:
Date: 20 Jul 1998 15:50:34 -0500
These fine engines were reduced from hauling the 2000 ts (!)
coal-block-trains from Rio Turbio to Rio Gallegos to shunting,
when a batch of roumanian second-hand-diesel-hydraulics
Uzina 23 August Bucuresti/ copies of Henschel-type late 60ies.
The line is some 250 kms long and untill recently the most southern
railway in the world.
Heinrich
FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:
>
> re advanced 2-10-2 on 76cm gauge
>
> yes, these locos do still exist, although about to go out of service,
being
> replaced by diesels - give me a day or so and I'll dig out some of the
recent
> articles on them- let me have your surface mail address so I can send
copies
>
> richard yudin
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: Our visit to Daund
Date: 21 Jul 1998 00:33:43 -0500
Donald L. Mills, Jr wrote:
> Read concerning Apurva's trip to Daund, Sounds great. I attended
> something this weekend that we discussed last week that might have a
answer
> of sorts for India's branch line service. I have no pictures but
someone
> who has a Baltimore & Ohio RR History Book or Cuban Railways book
might
> have some pictures. I hope you enjoy. Sorry for the length. Don
in WV
>
> Sixth Annual Doodlebug Convention (Doodlebug-named because this self
> propelled car doodled around the country). O & LK Div. Ch. of the
CPHNRHS
> sponsored the 6th Annual Doodlebug Convention in Belpre, OH. Over
one
> hundred people attended this yrs. Convention. The folks at Rockland
United
> Methodist Church provided the excellent setting plus the Methodist
Womens
> refreashments at break could have made Mrs. Fields Cookies jealous.
The
> Day started with the O &LK sponsoring tours of their restored caboose
and
> their newly obtained passenger car at Depot Park from 10AM to 12Noon.
> This years convention was extra-special as it was to the day- 45 years
> since the late running of the Doodlebug from Parkersburg, WV to
Zanesville
> OH. At one time the B&O RR had 20 Brill Doodlebugs on its system.
The
> Ohio and Little Kanawha RR Doodlebug was the last one to survive until
July
> 18th, 1953. The people of the area fought several years all the way
to the
> Ohio Supreme Court until loosing their beloved Doodlebug. The comment
was
> that everyone loved the Doodlebug but no one rode it. In its last
days the
> Doodlebug had an average of 8 riders morning and evening. One
writer, a
> B&O employee, Jim Kidd wrote, "Who killed the Doodlebug? I said
the
> auto, Though I didn't intend to, I killed the Doodlebug. All
> attendees were encouraged to view the Ohio River Bridge still used by
the
> CSX RR-a significant tribute to RR design and structure and the B&O
depot
> in Parkersburg. The US Post Office had a special cancellation
> commemorating the Railway Post Office which was such an important
part of
> RRing. The RPO car trailed the Doodlebug each day hauling freight and
> mail. (One man mentioned that you could get a letter from Parkersburg
WV
> to Portsmouth OH in 4 hours whereas today it takes 4 days.) these
> cancellations will be available for 30 days after the convention to
give as
> many people as possible a chance to obtain one. The highlight of
this
> years meeting as has been all others. It was good to see one of the
> engineers, last riders and hear the many beautiful stories connected
with a
> main artery of the region at that time. For those of you who
didn't
> get to attend this years convention you missed an excellent brochure
full
> of fantastic pictures. Also to you mug collectors, the O&LK Div. had
mugs
> with a picture of 6041 emblazioned on them . They all sold out. On
the
> last run there was not enough space to get everyone on board. Every
> station had huge crowds to see the Doodlebugs off. Both the 6041 and
6038
> made their way to the Cuban Owned railroad. They had been stored in
Newark
> OH until that time. Delivered to Miami, Fla via Southern Rail and
loaded
> onboard ship to Cuba. In Cuba the two B&O's joined 17 of their
Spanish
> cousins. One article says its doubtful that the Doodlebug will ever
see
> the waters of the Muskingham, however many at this years convention
spoke
> of the hopeful unthawing of relations with Cuba . I saw and heard
many
> hopeful voices saying how they would love to bring one of their
beloved
> Doodlebugs back to Belpre for display and I will add personally that I
hope
> it is in working order and available for a ride so that those of us
too
> young to remember the doodlebug will have a chance to ride and feel
the
> splendors of yesteryear. Some facts about the last run as found in
the
> Convention newsletter. 183 boarded at Zanesville. 4 Units were used
2
> Doodlebug engines plus 2 trailers. 1000 people greeted the train at
Malta.
> The last engineer was John Urban with Honorary engineer, Charles
White.
> Trains were numbered 955 and 956 on the B&O timetable. Engine
numbers
> were 6038 and 6041. The Ohio and Little Kanawha Railroad later part
of
> the B&O railroad ran 88.3 miles One-Way. As editor of this
newsletter it
> was obvious to me that it was a family reunion of those who fought
and
> loved the Doodlebug much like those who get together at Steam
conventions.
> I felt like a member of this family but one of the young ones
listening
> and learning and loving.
Hi Don,
I have seen the pics of the 'doodlebug' in a website somewhere. A single
coach
vehicle with a half round front and rear, is that right. What was the
prime
mover and the transmission like ? And how many people could it move at
one time
? We have a new Meter Gauge railbus just being introduced in the last
few
years. That is what is nearest to the Doodlebug we have here. On the BG
a DMU
with three coaches will be the smallest capacity vehicle carrying 750
passengers. I guess India needs that volume of traffic.
Apurva Bahadur
From: Anne O. <>
Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams thread
Date: 21 Jul 1998 23:08:20 -0500
> Hey, hey, hold on. This is supposed to be a forum on INDIAN rail, yes?
Yes, and if folks want we can take it offline. But the list is also
serving as
a forum for Indian railfans, who, like many railfans, have all sorts of
rail-ish interests. And the trolley thread started with me (who has easy
access to trolleys on side roads) taking pictures for Apurva (who
doesn't, and wanted to know about how the Calcutta trams worked.)
From: Anne O. <>
Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams, Polley troles, and the like
Date: 21 Jul 1998 23:24:03 -0500
Hmm...
Any speculation why the cutback in service?
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: Argentina steam:
Date: 22 Jul 1998 01:55:56 -0500
Heinrich Hubbert wrote:
> These fine engines were reduced from hauling the 2000 ts (!)
2000 Tonnes ? on a 2 feet 6 inch gauge ! how many locos were lashed
together to get such spectacular performance ? I guess such Herculean
tasks are possible when the railways depends on its own judgment for the
working rules rather than depend on some foreign system for guidance.
Apurva Bahadur
> coal-block-trains from Rio Turbio to Rio Gallegos to shunting,
> when a batch of roumanian second-hand-diesel-hydraulics
> Uzina 23 August Bucuresti/ copies of Henschel-type late 60ies.
> The line is some 250 kms long and untill recently the most southern
> railway in the world.
>
> Heinrich
>
> FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:
> >
> > re advanced 2-10-2 on 76cm gauge
> >
> > yes, these locos do still exist, although about to go out of
service, being
> > replaced by diesels - give me a day or so and I'll dig out some of
the recent
> > articles on them- let me have your surface mail address so I can
send copies
> >
> > richard yudin
From: FyffesFL <>
Subject: Re: replacements of Argentina steam:
Date: 22 Jul 1998 05:44:30 -0500
with apologies to the subcontinent purists
re the replacement of steam by diesel-hydraulics Rumanian 23 August
diesel
works - some of these " henschel copies " were tried in Costa Rica in
the late
1970's and early 80's - disastrous !
their engines were made of inferior metals, and constantly broke down -
even
the continued presence of a team of engineers from the factory did not
help -
two were even converted to electric-hydraulics, under 15,000 v 20 cycle
catenary - possibly unique in the world
I hope the Rio Gallegos line keeps a few steamers " stored serviceable."
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: replacements of Argentina steam:
Date: 22 Jul 1998 07:24:33 -0500
FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:
> with apologies to the subcontinent purists
>
> re the replacement of steam by diesel-hydraulics Rumanian 23 August
diesel
> works - some of these " henschel copies " were tried in Costa Rica in
the late
> 1970's and early 80's - disastrous !
>
> their engines were made of inferior metals, and constantly broke down
- even
> the continued presence of a team of engineers from the factory did not
help -
> two were even converted to electric-hydraulics, under 15,000 v 20
cycle
> catenary - possibly unique in the world
The CR team at Mumbai too had converted a WDS 2 shunter to run off 1.5
KV DC.
Details are very blurred but the picture which had appeared in the Times
of India
(atleast 25 years ago) is quite clear in my mind
Apurva Bahadur
>
>
> I hope the Rio Gallegos line keeps a few steamers " stored
serviceable."
From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E. Heath <>
Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams, Polley troles, and the like
Date: 22 Jul 1998 12:44:08 -0500
Hi Jishnu,
Thanks for picking up on the Esplanade-Kalighat closure. Personally,
I
was sorry to see trams go from Chowringhee: the very first time I
visited
Calcutta I stayed at the Grand (it wasn't so expensive back in 1970!)
and
watched fascinated as, late one evening, a breakdown crew re-railed a
car
right opposite the pub, in a time that would have done any system
credit.
Quite tremendous!
Cheers
Ken Walker
----------
> Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E. Heath wrote:
>
> > Calcutta tramways have had three waves of closures: the Howrah
system
> > (3 lines) closed in 1970-71, the Nimtollah line went in 1973, and
some
time
> > in the last 5 years or so, the branch to the High Court and the line
over
> > the Howrah Bridge to Howrah Station were closed. There is now no
trackage
> > west of BBD Bag (Dalhousie Square). On the other hand, the Behala
line
on
> > Diamond Harbour Road was extended to Joka (some 15km) and a new line
was
> > built to Ultdanga (though it had been intended to go to the
airport.)
> > Cheers
> > Ken Walker
>
> In addition the Esplanade - Kalighat line was discontinued in two
stages
as
> the Metro was constructed. In the first phase Jatin Das Park to Birla
> Planetarium was discontinued. A turnaround loop was setup at Birla
Planetarium
> so that service could be run from Esplanade to there. This service was
later
> discontinued with the completion of the Metro to Esplanade and tracks
lifted.
> Kalighat to Esplanade trams now go via Kidderpore and across the
Maidan,
as
> does 24 from Ballygunj to Esplanade via Kalighat.
>
> Also with the branch to High Court, also went the line on Strand Road
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jishnu.
>
>
>
From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>
Subject: Re: WDS2 Electric Shunter.
Date: 22 Jul 1998 19:06:38 -0500
> The CR team at Mumbai too had converted a WDS 2 shunter to run off
1.5 KV DC.
> Details are very blurred but the picture which had appeared in the
Times of India
> (atleast 25 years ago) is quite clear in my mind
Yes Appu you are right, I used to see it everyday shunting in Kurla
Yard.
It was painted gauddy blue.
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================
From: Shankarnarayan, Sridhar <>
Subject: Re: More Telco Pix
Date: 22 Jul 1998 20:44:15 -0500
> Apurva,
>
> The real deal: IR used part of its 1984 world bank loan towards 18
> prototypes: 12 Bo-Bo-Bo's, 6 from ASEA (WAG6A) and 6 from Hitachi
> WAG6B; in addition there was another 6 Co-Co's from Hitachi WAG6C. And
> as Shankar mentioned these were tested in the "KK" line in SE railway.
>
> -Sridhar
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur [SMTP:iti@giaspn01.email
> Sent: Saturday, July 18, 1998 4:52 AM
> To: Shankarnarayan, Sridhar
> Cc: 'irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: More Telco Pix
>
> So what is the classification number of this loco ?
>
> Apurva
>
> Shankarnarayan, Sridhar wrote:
>
> > Apurva,
> >
> > When IR was looking for high horsepower locos in the late
> eighties the had
> > trial batches from Hitachi and ABB (now Adtranz). Apparently,
> they either
> > liked the ABB loco better or they offered better terms for
> transfer of
> > technology (or perhaps, better terms in the form of
> "kickbacks"). If I
> > remember correctly, there was another design - Sumitomo with a
> desi partner
> > either BHEL or CLW, which was in the running for a while and
> was later
> > disqualified on some technical grounds.
> >
> > -Sridhar
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Apurva Bahadur [SMTP:iti@giaspn01.email
> > > Sent: Friday, July 17, 1998 9:51 AM
> > > To: Indian Railways Info Zone
> > > Subject: More Telco Pix
> > >
> > > Hello Friends,
> > >
> > > This is a picture of another Telco truck on rails. This pic
> is from a
> > > Konkan Rail brochure in Hindi. It is clear that the wheels
> are 'rail
> > > only'. Note the WDS 4 in the background.
> > > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/Telco2.jpg</A>
> > >
> > > Can the gang identify this loco ? I found this tattered
> picture on some
> > > mag (International Rail Gazette - I Think). Hitachi loco ? I
> thought ABB
> > > supplied these locos. This loco has a door in the nose to
> get on to the
> > > other loco during MU operation. Something tells me that
> these were some
> > > trial pieces of an unsuccessful loco. Any comments ?
> > > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg</A>
> > >
> > > Apurva Bahadur
> > >
>
>
From: FyffesFL <>
Subject: Re: WDS2 Electric Shunter.
Date: 23 Jul 1998 06:14:59 -0500
Gentlemen
Did this locomotive have an electric prime mover and a hydraulic
transmission
?
Richard Yudin
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: WDS2 Electric Shunter.
Date: 23 Jul 1998 06:58:42 -0500
Hi Richard,
I think the prime mover was a single traction motor. The loco was
without a
diesel engine and would have been scrapped or cannibalised otherwise. It
had a
single pantograph on the top of the cab. No other details. Viraf may
know more,
he has actually seen it. But all this was long time ago. BTW are there
any
regular electric shunters in use any where in the world ? I know one -
WCG1/EF 1
crocodile at Mumbai VT, any others ?
FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:
> Gentlemen
>
> Did this locomotive have an electric prime mover and a hydraulic
transmission
> ?
>
> Richard Yudin
From: Peter Mosse <>
Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams thread
Date: 23 Jul 1998 07:35:33 -0500
For what it is worth, I have found the Calcutta trams thread very
interesting and worthwhile. I've never been to Calcutta, but if I did I
would certainly view riding the trams as a completely legitimate railfan
activity ...
Peter Mosse
----------
> From: Anne O. <anniepoo@netmagic.email
> To: shankie@emirates.email
> Cc: irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Calcutta Trams thread
> Date: Wednesday, July 22, 1998 2:08 AM
>
> > Hey, hey, hold on. This is supposed to be a forum on INDIAN rail,
yes?
>
> Yes, and if folks want we can take it offline. But the list is also
> serving as
> a forum for Indian railfans, who, like many railfans, have all sorts
of
> rail-ish interests. And the trolley thread started with me (who has
easy
> access to trolleys on side roads) taking pictures for Apurva (who
> doesn't, and wanted to know about how the Calcutta trams worked.)
>
From: FyffesFL <>
Subject: Re: WDS2 Electric Shunter.
Date: 23 Jul 1998 08:44:19 -0500
re electric shunters
I know of many with direct electric transmissions, armatures on the
axles, and
many more with geared drive, but very few with a hydraulic drive. If you
want
detailes of the formers, please advise.
richard yudin
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: replacements of Argentina steam:
Date: 23 Jul 1998 11:23:50 -0500
> two were even converted to electric-hydraulics, under 15,000 v 20
cycle
> catenary - possibly unique in the world
>
Oh, now I undestand !, an electric motor keeps a hydraulic pack/ torque
converter
running and that drives the loco, is this correct ? If that is the case,
then it
is unique in the world.
Apurva Bahadur
From: John Hinson <>
Subject: Re: IRFC archive
Date: 23 Jul 1998 12:46:09 -0500
I cannot access it either. Is the given URL correct?
John Hinson
________||_
/ \ at
/_____________\
|___________| The Signal Box
| | | | |
|__|__|__|__| <A HREF="http://trainweb.com/signalbox/">http://trainweb.com/signalbox/</A>
/| |
//| ===== |
// | |
|/ |_ _ _ _ |
--- o ---
At 08:50 18.7.98 , you wrote:
>Anybody know what's up with the IRFC archive?
>I should be able to see it, but I can't.
>Supposedly it was at:
>
><A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sundar/irfca/index.html">http://members.xoom.com/sundar/irfca/index.html</A>
>
>Are others having intermittent problems seeing this archive?
>