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From: Sundar Krishnamurthy <>

Subject: Re: Footplate Fun

Date: 08 Sep 1999 14:37:06 -0500


Hello Larry

Whenever I need to travel on sleeper class IR by the door (which is
*always*) I use many tricks to hoodwink the TCs. The standard practice
when
a train leaves its origin is for the TC to close all the doors in the
coach(es) he's assigned to. I would be stuck on the door and the guy
would
ask me to sit inside. My standard answer would be - "the train passes by
my
house and my folks are gonna wave!" Later in the journey, I would take
my
cheap camera to the door and all other unreserved/short-distance
travellers
would gladly make way for the photographer (tourist respect?). They
would
think I was interested in the scenery and countryside - no one would
recognize the railfan !! Crowds notwithstanding - I stil think Sleeper
class is the best option on a train ride.

Sundar

--------------------------------------------------------
Sundar Krishnamurthy Datamatics-ASCOM, Somerset NJ
sundar@spyring.email <A HREF="http://sundar.cjb.net">http://sundar.cjb.net</A>
ICQ: 3159776 Tel (O): +1-732-828 8686
--------------------------------------------------------
Only the Paranoid Survive - Andrew Grove, intel

From: T.H.Sanyal. <>

Subject: Bombay VT (CSTM) remodelling/Churchgate questions

Date: 08 Sep 1999 16:00:00 -0500


I have a question for Irfca members knowledgable about Bombay suburban
system. Many years back, VT had 8 suburban platforms and 5 main
platforms. It seems VT suburban now has 7 (double-discharge?) platforms.
I read somewhere that this project of putting double-discharge platforms
required some local trains to be switched to VT main and long-distance
trains to be handled some place else. Can someone provide a rough time
line of the stages of this project? Also, how is VT able to handle an
ever increasing number of suburban trains with 1 less platform? What
else has been done to help commuter flow in and around VT? Are there
subways for commuters to cross the streets around VT? Are platforms
dedicated for Harbour line, Slow line and Fast line trains? Do the time
tables indicate which train (like 5:40 Ambarnath local) will leave which
platform, or is that decided on a day to day basis with passengers
notified by indicator boards?Are there still Thana locals via Harbour
branch?

How many platforms in Churchgate? What kind of pedestrian facilities
exist
over there?

Thanks in advance for the information.

T.H.Sanyal.

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: More Wankaner/ Morbi pics site

Date: 08 Sep 1999 19:13:01 -0500



Hello Vijay,

> This is a great site - thanks to the efforts of Viraf, Sarosh,
Shrinivas and
> Apurva.

Thanks for the compliments. Though it was a joint effort had it not been
for Appu you all wouldn't had seen our pictures. Now I am waiting to get
my recent trip's pictures loaded. In the same way Prakash helped us out
with our Udaipur trip pictures. We have a very helpful group here. IRFCA
-
ZINDABAD.

> One clarification about the Rajkot - Bandra Exp. that you snapped up
at
> Wankaner.
> Isn't this the Jamnagar - Bandra Saurashtra Janata Exp.? Did it leave
> Wankaner on
> time - around 3.30 pm?

Yes it the same 9018 Jamnagar-Bandra Saurashtra Janta Express departing
Wankaner at 15.27.

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: sleepers and rail weights

Date: 08 Sep 1999 20:30:58 -0500


Hello,
My word, Dr. Walker, you are an absolute MINEFIELD of information!

Anyway, the creostating plant on the NR you refer to was at Dlilwan in
the Punjab.
THe 'weird and wonderful steam engines' you refer to are of were of
class MTR, which after service at the Marla Timber depot (wherever that
is) and the Karachi Port TRust subsequently landed at Dhilwan.
Tow of these engines are preserved, both in Delhi. One is at the NRM,
and the other outside the NR headquarters building.
Cheers.
Shankar




Dr. K.J. Walker wrote:
>
> Dear C.L.,
> Interesting about creosote. I think they still use it here, but
if
> it's toxic then of course we too will see it disappear -- though not
as fast
> as our few remaining forests. (or the poor Timorese).
> The Indians used to have several creosoting plants, including
one on
> NR which had some weird and wonderful little steam engines. Probably
closed
> now, I guess.
> I found Satish's extract from Gadgil's book quite fascinating.
> Now, to rail weights. It's a real maze: one text book on track I
have
> in my possession lists over 48 different rail sizes and sections. In
the
> early days, double-headed and bull-headed sections were frequently
used,
> mostly in the 60-80lb range, and some BH rail still survives on
sidings.
> Cast-iron pot sleepers with chairs for BH rail incorporated were truly
> intricate castings!
> It's possible to make some sense of it all by drastic
> oversimplification. The Guaranteed Company BG lines of last century
mostly
> followed contemporary British practice and hence used DH and BH rails
in
> chairs. The MG lines (1869 on) being initially State railways were
very
> standardised (as to rolling stock, too) and they were mostly laid with
> 41-1/4lb FB rail. The MG story is fairly simple because there has been
a
> steady trend to upgrade, to 50lb (by the turn of the century,
roughly), 60lb
> and in recent times 80lb. 60lb still survives on many light branches,
and is
> being cascaded to NG lines in many places -- not so much to permit
higher
> axle-loads as to reduce maintenance (though they did have some
axle-load
> problems with the ZDM4s, as many will know.) NG lines (mostly Princely
> States or small companies, but some Indian State lines) generally
began with
> 30-35lb rail, and have upgraded fitfully over the years mostly to 40lb
or
> 50lb. Use of second-hand rail meant that the variety is often very
great.
> Incidentally, this was one area where the genius of Calthrop was
little
> understood. His idea was to have locos and rolling stock built to a
standard
> axle-load THROUGHOUT. Setting this at 5 tons for the famous Barsi
Light
> meant that he could adopt 30lb rail, but by giving his engines lots of
feet,
> the axle loads were kept down. The earliest engine was an 0-8-4T, but
the
> classic design was his BS 4-8-4T, which was dominant power on the BLR
until
> the arrival of the F & G class tender engines. His freight stock was
all
> bogie, designed to exactly equal the cubic capacity of comparable BG
designs
> (to ease transhipment) and he even provided transporter wagons so that
BG
> wagons could be moved to destination without transhipment! Those
vehicles
> were still on the property very recently, though not used for their
original
> purpose.
> On BG, policy since the turn of the century has been to
steadily
> upgrade, and in the 1920s a series of locos and stock to "extra-heavy"
Main
> Line loadings, with 22-1/2ton axle loads, was projected, though never
built.
> However, many bridges were built to the new "XML" standard. Main line
BG
> rail sections (nearly all BS sections, incidentally, until the
introduction
> of the IR standards well after independence) crept up from 80lb, in
both BH
> and FB, to the widely-used 90R for main lines. I think the IRS 52kg
and 56kg
> rails were standardised in the 1960s; certainly they are in the new
metric
> track manual issued in the 1970s. (incidentally, if anyone has a copy
of the
> old pre-metric one and would like to part with it, I'll happily give
it a
> home!)
> The result is that modern mainline BG practice is convergent
with
> the rest of the world: 52 or 56kg rail, long-welded, on concrete
sleepers.
> That's an awful lot, put I hope it puts things in rough
> perspective!
> Cheers
> Ken Walker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. Zeni <clzeni@mindspring.email
> To: Dr. K.J. Walker <kjw_meh@powerup.email
> Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> Date: 8 September 1999 12:24
> Subject: Re: sleepers
>
> >Dr. Walker, all of what you is true. I neglected to note another
> >problem being experienced here with wood sleepers, that is, chemical
> >preservation of them. The traditional method was creosote. It
rendered
> >the wood nearly rot-proof and insect resistant for the practical life
of
> >the tie. Creosote is now considered a hazardous material here, but
is
> >still being used. Newer treatments are not found to be as effective
as
> >creosote. Concrete of course doesn't rot and is insect proof. As
> >mentioned earlier, the Florida East Coast RR is nearly 100% concrete
> >ties. On their entire 500 route mile system, they replace less than
400
> >ties a year after having converted the entire line in the late 1960s.
> >Where they have been used here, they've been quite successful. But
the
> >US railroad management is quite conservative, so change comes slowly.
> >
> >On another subject, I am curious about the size and weight of the
rail
> >used in India. Does anybody have any data on this? In the US, rail
is
> >described by a combination of its weight in pounds/3 feet of length
and
> >its profile of which there are numerous standards.
> >

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Re: Train names, Queens and Godesses

Date: 08 Sep 1999 20:50:21 -0500


On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

>
> --- "poras p.saklatwalla " <pps@godrej.email wrote:
> >I think Mr Prakash is getting hyper and personal !
> >Why can't you call a spade a spade, white is white
> >and not yellow - then Bastards are Bastards !
> >There is no reckless language used by anyone and you
> >have to accept what you have to accept. Dont we
> >abuse Mr. Nitish Kumar or Ram Naik ? There is
> >nothing political which is absolute and it is only
> >relative.
>
> >Don't you see the way these white clad dark glassed
> >politicians have SCREWED OUR LIVES AND NATION
> >UMPTEEN NO OF TIMES ! SHANKAR I WHOLE HEARTEDLY
> >SUPPPORT YOU ! LET US BE FRANK AND NOT
> >H Y P O C R A T E S ! !
>
> --- Samit Roychoudhury <samr@vsnl.email wrote:
> >WELL SAID
> >I second, third fourth etc etc etc it
>
> Poras and Samit,
>
> No, this is not personal if you attack politicians
> and yes, it is personal, if you do so on IRFCA.
>
> There are forums like SCI (soc.culture.indian) and
> FOIL (Forum of Indian Leftists) to name a few, where
> you can go ahead and wash your dirty linens without
> offending anyone. I do not care what you write those
> forums.
>
> No so on IRFCA. That's a difference between a temple
> and toilet, although both the words start with an
> alphabet "T".
>
> Contributors have criticized politicians freely on
> IRFCA when the issue was directly related to IR.
> However, civilized criticism is altogether different
> than assigning arbitrary pedigree to politicians.
>
> Don't forget the fact that you are citizens of India
> and you are the ones who elect and nurture these
> politicians. So be prepared to pay for your deeds and
> share the blame among yourselves only but not on
> IRFCA.
>
> Choice is yours! Good Luck!
>
> Prakash
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Bid and sell for free at <A HREF="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com</A>
>

PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237 ~
I think I have hit the nail at the spot where it hurts the most !

I dont think Mr. Tendulkar knows what is the difference between the
"elbow
and the arse" Mr. Tendulkar we are not the ones nurturing any bastards
on
this earth ! THE BRITS WERE 10000000000 ( WHATEVER YOU CAN READ THAT AS
)
BETTER THAN THESE BUNCH OF JOKERS CALLED POLITICIANS !

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Re: Bombay VT (CSTM) remodelling/Churchgate questions

Date: 08 Sep 1999 22:06:10 -0500


Hi!


On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, T.H.Sanyal. wrote:

> I have a question for Irfca members knowledgable about Bombay suburban
> system. Many years back, VT had 8 suburban platforms and 5 main
> platforms. It seems VT suburban now has 7 (double-discharge?)
platforms.

Yes, this is all correct. It was about 8-10 years back this project was
completed.

> I read somewhere that this project of putting double-discharge
platforms
> required some local trains to be switched to VT main and long-distance
> trains to be handled some place else. Can someone provide a rough time
> line of the stages of this project?

All credit goes to personnel handling rail traffic at CST, only few
locals
used to be diverted to main line at CST during the project was
completed.
And a footover bridge also was built at Kalyan end connecting all the
platforms & it comes out on the Times of India footpath.

> Also, how is VT able to handle an
> ever increasing number of suburban trains with 1 less platform? What
> else has been done to help commuter flow in and around VT? Are there
> subways for commuters to cross the streets around VT?

Your questions come on the very day the new subways at CST are opened to
public.
This has 4 mouths, so to speak. Two facing corporation headquarters one
facing
CST and other facing the playgrounds on Metro talkies road. These
subways
have shopping arcades inside, which will be sold to interested parties.
Has provision to take out any water problem in monsoon. It is estimated
to
carry more than 1 Lac commuters each day. This will help the vehicular
traffic in the area as the crowds coming out of CST will go underneath
to
cross the roads. This project was completed 10 months in advance, using
most advanced equipments by the developer.

Are platforms
> dedicated for Harbour line, Slow line and Fast line trains? Do the
time
> tables indicate which train (like 5:40 Ambarnath local) will leave
which
> platform, or is that decided on a day to day basis with passengers
> notified by indicator boards?Are there still Thana locals via Harbour
> branch?

Yes, mostly the harbour trains use the platforms 1,2 & 3.The TTs don't
indicate
the platforms . This is done on occupancy of platforms & accordingly
the
indicators display the time & destination before the train arrives into
CST,
so as commuters can take their places on platform & hence can jump
inside to
literally catch the facing window seat. You won't believe within a
minute
the crowd manages to enter the incoming train & for few moments the
platform
wears a empty look till the new crowds set in .

> How many platforms in Churchgate? What kind of pedestrian facilities
exist
> over there?

Churchgate has 4 double discharge platforms. Subways are there since
very
long. Rest all the scene is similar to CST. It is to be seen to be
believed.

Hats off to Mumbai Commuter community & the CR management !

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: Mahuda-Bhojudih revisited

Date: 09 Sep 1999 00:45:58 -0500


I have been working half the night on this area!


Vijay Balasubramanian said:

> > > Katrasgarh (crosses Khandih-Kharkhari line) Jamuniatand

> > Are you sure? I think it goes Katrasgarh-Jamuniatanr
Halt-Chandrapura
> > i.e. it does NOT join the Mahuda-Jamuniatand-Chandrapura line... the
two
> > "Jamunia"s are close but different - check the Bradshaw...

> You are correct. I looked at the ER map and then double-checked with
the ER
> schedule. Chandrapura Jn Deonagar Halt Jamuniatanr Halt .....
Katrasgarh
> Here is an interesting link shown in the ER map - can you double-check
this?

I will, as soon as the SER map gets put on the indianrailways.com
website! The last additions there seem to be dated only a couple of
weeks ago, so it appears to be active!


> There is a line from Jamuniatanr H. that goes to Dugdawasrery -
Rajabera.
> In fact, it joins the Chandrapura-Rajabera line somewhere in the
middle.
> This line must be crossing the Chandrapura-Dudga-Jamuniatand-Mahuda
> line near Dugda/Jamuniatand.

From the topology described by you, it could *alternatively* cut both
the Gomoh-Telo-Chandrapura line and the Chandrapura-Bhandaridah line to
get there... I know "one x-over" is much more probable than "two", but
was it a guess by you?


> I am not sure whether Dugda and Dugdawasrery
> are the same or not.

My observations re place names in this region would indicate probably
not...


> So, the following seems to be the layout around Chandrapura:
> Gomoh Telo Chandrapura Bhandardih ..... Barkakana
> Rajabera Tukpadi Bokaro SC
> Chandrapura Deonagar H. Jamuniatanr H. ..... Katrasgarh
> Chandrapura Dudga Jamuniatand Mahuda

All agreed.


> Jamuniatanr H. Dugdawasrery Rajabera (joining Chandrapura-Rajabera
> somewhat north of Rajabera)

Are there any more stations shown on this Dugdawasrery line?

I am beginning to see a hidden plan by IR to confuse me... my automatic
route-finder is going to dislike this region! ;-) (I mean, add a
couple of seconds to search-times if the band of likely optimality
includes a part of it).


> Chandrapura Rajabera Bhandardih (2nd route from Chandrapura to
Bhandardih)
> the line branches off some distance south of Chandrapura and proceeds
> towards Rajabera

Hmmm... another new one to me (the Rajabehra-Bhandaridah direct link,
that is, avoiding Chandrapura). You *are* saying there is one (sort of
"U" shaped)?0

I'm sure you agree - the Mahuda area is an INSANELY COMPLEX RAILWAY
REGION! I guess put together in pieces over an extended period, and
subject to all sorts of territorial and other restrictions... so ended
up looking haphazard.

A simple measure of complexity is that - in the core area - while
stations are closely packed, "junctions" (*MY* definition ;) )
outnuumber non-junctions!!

Asansol & Anara areas are also "interesting" - but not anything like
Mahuda... :(


BTW in the absence of further information I am going to ignore ZZ-UU (at
the end of the day, just a spur) and "pretend" YY is Shewbabudih...


> > Thanks again... maybe you have some distances for me in the "XXX
Railway -
> > some missing information, help please... :)" posts?

> Will do so in future messages.
> Vijay

Many thanks. I will shortly be incorporating the new info you have
provided re Calcutta-region, and will re-post the amended request for
distance info for ER.


Regards to all

Larry


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From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: sleepers and rail weights

Date: 09 Sep 1999 02:17:01 -0500


Dear C.L.,
Interesting about creosote. I think they still use it here, but if
it's toxic then of course we too will see it disappear -- though not as
fast
as our few remaining forests. (or the poor Timorese).
The Indians used to have several creosoting plants, including one
on
NR which had some weird and wonderful little steam engines. Probably
closed
now, I guess.
I found Satish's extract from Gadgil's book quite fascinating.
Now, to rail weights. It's a real maze: one text book on track I
have
in my possession lists over 48 different rail sizes and sections. In the
early days, double-headed and bull-headed sections were frequently used,
mostly in the 60-80lb range, and some BH rail still survives on sidings.
Cast-iron pot sleepers with chairs for BH rail incorporated were truly
intricate castings!
It's possible to make some sense of it all by drastic
oversimplification. The Guaranteed Company BG lines of last century
mostly
followed contemporary British practice and hence used DH and BH rails in
chairs. The MG lines (1869 on) being initially State railways were very
standardised (as to rolling stock, too) and they were mostly laid with
41-1/4lb FB rail. The MG story is fairly simple because there has been a
steady trend to upgrade, to 50lb (by the turn of the century, roughly),
60lb
and in recent times 80lb. 60lb still survives on many light branches,
and is
being cascaded to NG lines in many places -- not so much to permit
higher
axle-loads as to reduce maintenance (though they did have some axle-load
problems with the ZDM4s, as many will know.) NG lines (mostly Princely
States or small companies, but some Indian State lines) generally began
with
30-35lb rail, and have upgraded fitfully over the years mostly to 40lb
or
50lb. Use of second-hand rail meant that the variety is often very
great.
Incidentally, this was one area where the genius of Calthrop was little
understood. His idea was to have locos and rolling stock built to a
standard
axle-load THROUGHOUT. Setting this at 5 tons for the famous Barsi Light
meant that he could adopt 30lb rail, but by giving his engines lots of
feet,
the axle loads were kept down. The earliest engine was an 0-8-4T, but
the
classic design was his BS 4-8-4T, which was dominant power on the BLR
until
the arrival of the F & G class tender engines. His freight stock was all
bogie, designed to exactly equal the cubic capacity of comparable BG
designs
(to ease transhipment) and he even provided transporter wagons so that
BG
wagons could be moved to destination without transhipment! Those
vehicles
were still on the property very recently, though not used for their
original
purpose.
On BG, policy since the turn of the century has been to steadily
upgrade, and in the 1920s a series of locos and stock to "extra-heavy"
Main
Line loadings, with 22-1/2ton axle loads, was projected, though never
built.
However, many bridges were built to the new "XML" standard. Main line BG
rail sections (nearly all BS sections, incidentally, until the
introduction
of the IR standards well after independence) crept up from 80lb, in both
BH
and FB, to the widely-used 90R for main lines. I think the IRS 52kg and
56kg
rails were standardised in the 1960s; certainly they are in the new
metric
track manual issued in the 1970s. (incidentally, if anyone has a copy of
the
old pre-metric one and would like to part with it, I'll happily give it
a
home!)
The result is that modern mainline BG practice is convergent
with
the rest of the world: 52 or 56kg rail, long-welded, on concrete
sleepers.
That's an awful lot, put I hope it puts things in rough
perspective!
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: C. Zeni <clzeni@mindspring.email
To: Dr. K.J. Walker <kjw_meh@powerup.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 8 September 1999 12:24
Subject: Re: sleepers


>Dr. Walker, all of what you is true. I neglected to note another
>problem being experienced here with wood sleepers, that is, chemical
>preservation of them. The traditional method was creosote. It
rendered
>the wood nearly rot-proof and insect resistant for the practical life
of
>the tie. Creosote is now considered a hazardous material here, but is
>still being used. Newer treatments are not found to be as effective as
>creosote. Concrete of course doesn't rot and is insect proof. As
>mentioned earlier, the Florida East Coast RR is nearly 100% concrete
>ties. On their entire 500 route mile system, they replace less than
400
>ties a year after having converted the entire line in the late 1960s.
>Where they have been used here, they've been quite successful. But the
>US railroad management is quite conservative, so change comes slowly.
>
>On another subject, I am curious about the size and weight of the rail
>used in India. Does anybody have any data on this? In the US, rail is
>described by a combination of its weight in pounds/3 feet of length and
>its profile of which there are numerous standards.
>

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Delhi Metro web site

Date: 09 Sep 1999 02:23:52 -0500


Just came across this one on misc.transport.urban-transit:

a link for the New Delhi metro. Enjoy.

<A HREF="http://www.delhimetrorail.com/">http://www.delhimetrorail.com/</A>

Jishnu.

From: John Lacey <>

Subject: Re: More plinthed locos

Date: 09 Sep 1999 02:51:07 -0500


37370 is listed in Hughes, part 2 as a Skoda 2-6-4T class ST.
X37390 " " " " as SLM 1925 built.

John Lacey

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: More plinthed locos

Date: 09 Sep 1999 03:08:38 -0500


Hi Apurva,
There was/is a Vulcan Iron Works in the USA -- I think in
Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania. It built many WD engines, as well as some
other
well-known types such as a the TCDD "SKyliners". The English firm is
called
Vulcan Foundry. People often confuse them.
The stuffed and mounted YD at Hubli, No. 30243, was Vulcan
Foundry
1949, according to Hughes. It was not US-built.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: 8 September 1999 4:58
Subject: More plinthed locos


>Gang !
>
>The July 1999 issue of the Indian Railways has just arrived. It has a
picture of a
>plinthed YD 30243 at Hubli.
>Quote: The steam locomotive 'Rail Gaurav' which served Hubli division
for
four decades
>has been installed at the divisional headquarters at Hubli.
Manufactured in
the Vulcan
>Foundry in the USA in 1951 this loco (YD 30243 with a speed potential
of 50
kmph
>hauled the princely saloons of the Maharaja of Mysore. It later hauled
both
passenger
>and freight trains on Hubli division. Unquote
>
>What is this about Vulcan Foundry being in the US ?
>
>One more plithing is the X class 37370 (not sure about the number, the
pic
seems to
>show a plinthed loco with a number like X37-90, the '-' number is
obscured
by the
>grill preventing junta climbing the plinth).
>
>Quote: The SR X37370 steam locomotive built in Switzerland in 1922,
rolled
up and down
>7.5 lakh kms on the Nilgiri Mountain railway for the last 75 years.
Unquote.
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>

From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: I'm less confused about Calcutta area - but, still Help Needed

Date: 09 Sep 1999 03:47:43 -0500


Thanks Vijay for the missing stations info - please see the "Anyone have
these Inter-station Distances, please?" message, where I have
incorporated them.

>Couple of routes that you may wish to add -

Please.


>1. Kalinarayanpur Jn. Birnagar Taherpur Badkulla
>Jalalkhali Halt Ranaghat Jn.

????????????

Should the last not be Krishnanagar City Jn.?



>2. Circular Railway - Princep Ghat Eden Gardens B.B.D. Bag
>Burrabazar Ahiritola Sovabazar Bagbazar Tala Ultadanga Rd.

I believe Dum Dum Jn. is linked to Princep Ghat, but how is the circle
completed? Ultadanga Road-Princep Ghat?



Regards to all

Larry

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From: lwebber <>

Subject: Mystery About Missing Stations (now 1,233?) deepens... :)

Date: 09 Sep 1999 03:52:34 -0500


Summary: Number of Passenger Stations on IR:
(Updated with information supplied by Vijay - and no doubt many more to
come from the regional TTs he has).

1972 7098 (Official)

1998 c7600 (per 1998 Bradshaw Index, known to be
incomplete eg with suburbia etc.)

1999 8217 (**Per MY list & program**)

1999 6984 (per Official IR Website!)


Now 8,217 - 6,984 = 1,233 "missing" stations! I have approximately
checked how many "Halts", "Flags", "Cabins" and "Track Points" are
included in my data only 200 or so, and these, and a very few dead
lines, surely cannot be enough to account for this HUGE difference. I
am not double-counting MG & BG stations. I am including suburbia/metro.

Any ideas?


For Vijay - besides the fifteen "Bala.." stations found in the Bradshaw
index, here are all the others..

Ambala Cantonment Jn.
Ambala City
Ambalapuzha
Babalad
Badhai Balamgarh
Dahar-ka-Balaji
Kishangarh Balawas
Kodimbala Halt
Kumbalam
Kurabalakota
Mambalam
Mambalappattu
Obalapuram Halt
Radhbalampur
Shri Balaji
Vaniyambalam

:)


Regards to all

Larry

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From: lwebber <>

Subject: Computer Simulation of Indian Railways - Progress Report

Date: 09 Sep 1999 04:02:22 -0500


PROJECT FOR COMPUTER SIMULATION OF INDIAN RAILWAYS

Intended Output: Semi-graphical, on-line, real-time or accelerated,
showing train positions (per TT, not "real"), and able to work out
optimum (time/distance/convenience) routes, all accurate to +/- 1 km.

Systems Designer, Programmer, Railways Consultant, Data Entry Clerk: me
(but all help gratefully accepted) ;)


PROGRESS REPORT
+ I have completed the very fast "optimum route finder" program, whose
output I have provided here from time to time.
+ I have completed inputting *all* stations known to me (via Bradshaws
and some regional TTs) - of course, some are missing. The total is
currently 8,217 "stations".
+ I have completed entering geographic co-ordinate data for the 900
"key" stations (all the junctions, per my definition - i.e. 3 or more
routes out; also all non-junctions where there is a change of gauge or
railway).
+ Data re positions of all major rail bridges is also complete.
+ Timetable data for major trains at major stations already entered (but
2 years out-of-date)
+ Of the 10 railways that make up IR, I have completed entering all
inter-station distances for five railways: CR/ER/KR/NEFR/NER, and am
working on #6 (NR), to be followed by SCR, SER, SR and WR.


HELP IS NEEDED FOR INTER-STATION DISTANCES (from regional Timetables or
older Bradshaws, which often give this data) - please see the other
message with subject "Anyone have these Inter-station Distances,
please?". TIA.


Regards to all

Larry


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From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Trams of the world

Date: 09 Sep 1999 04:11:51 -0500


Hello,
Although purists may disagree, I still consider trams to be trains.
Basic dc emu sets, thats what they really are.

Check out this amazing url about trams of the world. There is a large
pic of a tram in Calcutta, which I'll probably incorporate into my emu
enigma site under dc emus.


<A HREF="http://tramway.com/bs/bs_liste_index_e.htm">http://tramway.com/bs/bs_liste_index_e.htm</A>

Cheers.

Shankar

From: lwebber <>

Subject: Anyone have these Inter-Station Distances, please?

Date: 09 Sep 1999 04:12:18 -0500


Could someone with Regional Railway Timetables, pre-1998 Bradshaws or
other sources, please provide inter-station distances (approximate will
do) and/or any missing stations?
It is simplest to just insert the km-distance between the station names
when replying. Please, answers to irfca.
I will repeat this message as updates are received, removing lines as
necessary (and adding - while I have finished inter-station distances
for CR/ER/KR/NEFR/NER subject to the below, NR is still W.I.P. and
SCR,SER,SR and WR will be addressed over the forthcoming few days).



CR (BG)
* Dativali,Bhivandi Jn. (direct, not via Diva Jn. or Dombivli - this is
on the Vasai Road to Panvel link)
*
Khajuri,Parakheda,Churelkheda,Mohana,Renhat,Ghatigaon,Panihar,Naugaon,Gw
alior Jn. (just completed)
* Thane,Airoli,Ghansoli,Rabale,Mahape,Kopar Khairane,Pavane,Turbhe
(intended to link to Juinagar)
* Diva Jn.,Airoli
* Tadali Jn.,Ghugus
* Wani Jn.,Pimpalkhuti,Chanakh (intended to link to Adilabad on SCR?)

ER (BG) (Calcutta Region)
* Seoraphuli Jn.,Diara,Nasibpur,Singur,Kamarkundu Jn.,Nalikul,Malia
Halt,Haripal,Kaikala,Bahirkhanda,Loknath,Tarkeshwar
* Dum Dum Jn.,Princep Ghat,Eden Gardens,BBD
Bagh,Burrabazar,Ahiritola,Sovabazar,Bagbazar,Tala,Ultadanga Road
* Sheakhala,Dankuni Jn.,Andul Jn.
* Kalyani,Kalyani Silpanchal,Kalyani Ghoshpara,Kalyani Simanta
* Dum Dum Jn.,Dum Dum Cantonment,Durganagar,Birati,Bishorpara Kodaliya
Halt,New Barrackpur,Madhyamgram,Hridaypur,Barasat
Jn.,Bamangachhi,Dattapukur,Bira,Guma,Ashoknagar
Road,Habra,Machhalandapur,Gobardanga,Thakurnagar,Chandpara,Bongaon
Jn.,Ranaghat Jn.,Bankim Nagar Halt,Panchberia
Halt,Aranghata,Bahiragachhi Halt,Bhayana Halt,Bagula,Mayurhat,Taraknagar
Halt,Majhdia,Banpur,Harisnagar Halt,Gede
* Kalinarayanpur Jn.,Phulia,Habibpur,Shantipur
* Baliganja Jn.,Lake Gardens,Tollyganj,New Alipur,Majherhat,Brace
Bridge,Santoshpur,Akra,Nungi,Baj Baj
* Dhakuria,Jadavpur,Bhaga Jatin,Garia,Sonarpur
Jn.,Bidyadharpur,Kalikpur,Champahati,Piali,Champahati,Ghutiari
Sharif,Betberia Ghola Halt,Taldi,Canning
* Sonarpur Jn.,Subhasgram,Malikpur,Baruipur Jn,Kalyanpur (W.B.),Dakshin
Durgapur,Hotar,Dhamua,Uttar Radhanagar Halt,Magra Halt,Bahirpuya
Halt,Sangrampur,Deula,Netra,Basuldanga,Gurudas Nagar,Diamond Harbour
* Barasat Jn.,Kareya Kadambagachhi,Bahira-Kalibari
Halt,Sondalia,Beliaghata Road Halt,Labutala Halt,Bhasila,Harua
Road,Kankra-Mirzanagar Halt,Champapukur,Bhyabla Halt,Basirhat,
Madhyampur Halt,Nimdanri Halt,Taki Road,Hasnabad

ER (BG) (Non-Calcutta Region)
* Damodar Jn.,Kalipahari
* Patna Jn.,Digha
* Mokama Jn.,Mokama Ghat
* Ikra Jn.,Gaurangdih
* Talgaria,Katrasgarh (Colliery)
* Hathidah Jn.,Rajendra Pul,Simaria,Garhara,Barauni Jn.
* Sindri Town,Pathardih Jn.

NEFR (MG)
* Alipurduar Jn.,Alipurduar Court,Alipurduar,Baneswar,New Cooch
Behar,Cooch Behar,Dawan Hat,Bhetaguri,Dinhata College
Halt,Dinhata,Falimari,New Gitaldaha Jn.,Abutara Halt,Bamanhat
* Domohani,Bhottepatti,Changrabandha
* New Gitaldaha Jn.,Gitaldaha
* Raja Bhat Khawa Jn.,Jayanti
* Chalsa Jn.,Matiali
* Agyathori Jn.,Amingaon

NER (BG)
* Sonpur Jn.,Paleza Ghat

NER (MG)
* Sitapur Jn.,Thompsonganj
* Bhagalpur Jn.,Bhagalpur Kacheri,Barari
* Nepalganj Road,Babaganj,Nanpara
Jn.,Matera,Risia,Bahraich,Chilwaria,Yogendradham
Halt,Paryagpur,Bisheshwarganj,Bangain,Gangadham,Gonda Jn.

NR (BG) (To date - Work In Progress!)
* Kanpur Bridge,Chandari,Govindpuri
* Daraganj,Prayag
* Jalandhar City Jn.,Lyalpur Khalsa,Jhamsher
Khas,Thabalke,Shankar,Nakodar Jn.
* Ashapura Gomat Jn.,Pokaran
* Aishbagh, Amausi
* Ramganga Jn.,Chanethi (bypassing Bareilly)
* Fazilka Jn.,Chananwala
* Firozpur City Jn.,Husainwala
* Bhuchchu,Katar Singh Wala,Garhi Bhagi,Sangat (semi-circular around
Bathinda)
* Pragati Maidan,Anand Vihar,Sahibabad Jn.

NR (MG) (To date - Work In Progress!)
* Bhagat-ki-Kothi,Fedusar
* Balotra Jn.,Pachpadra City,Pachpadra Salt Depot
* Tilwara Jn.,Tilwara Mela


Many thanks in advance!

Regards to all

Larry


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From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: I'm less confused about Calcutta area - but, still Help Needed

Date: 09 Sep 1999 04:56:55 -0500


lwebber@planetmail.email wrote:

> >2. Circular Railway - Princep Ghat Eden Gardens B.B.D. Bag
> >Burrabazar Ahiritola Sovabazar Bagbazar Tala Ultadanga Rd.
>
> I believe Dum Dum Jn. is linked to Princep Ghat, but how is the circle
> completed? Ultadanga Road-Princep Ghat?

The circle is not completed yet. Eventually it will be completed when
Princep Ghat is connected with the Ballygunj - Baj Baj line around
Majherhat/Brace Bridge area, thus completing the circle Princep Ghat -
Majherhat, Kalighat/Tollygunj, Lake Gardens, Ballygunj, via Kakurgachhi
Chord, Bidhannagar Road, Ultadanga Road.

Jishnu.

From: lwebber <>

Subject: No longer re: Train names, Queens and Godesses :(

Date: 09 Sep 1999 04:58:55 -0500


poras p.saklatwalla said:
> On Mon, 6 Sep 1999, Prakash Tendulkar wrote:
> > --- "poras p.saklatwalla " <pps@godrej.email wrote:
> > >I think Mr Prakash is getting hyper and personal !
> > >Why can't you call a spade a spade, white is white
> > >and not yellow - then Bastards are Bastards !
> > >There is no reckless language used by anyone and you
> > >have to accept what you have to accept. Dont we
> > >abuse Mr. Nitish Kumar or Ram Naik ? There is
> > >nothing political which is absolute and it is only
> > >relative.
> > >Don't you see the way these white clad dark glassed
> > >politicians have SCREWED OUR LIVES AND NATION
> > >UMPTEEN NO OF TIMES ! SHANKAR I WHOLE HEARTEDLY
> > >SUPPPORT YOU ! LET US BE FRANK AND NOT
> > >H Y P O C R A T E S ! !

> > No, this is not personal if you attack politicians
> > and yes, it is personal, if you do so on IRFCA.
> > There are forums like SCI (soc.culture.indian) and
> > FOIL (Forum of Indian Leftists) to name a few, where
> > you can go ahead and wash your dirty linens without
> > offending anyone. I do not care what you write those
> > forums.
> > No so on IRFCA. That's a difference between a temple
> > and toilet, although both the words start with an
> > alphabet "T".
> > Contributors have criticized politicians freely on
> > IRFCA when the issue was directly related to IR.
> > However, civilized criticism is altogether different
> > than assigning arbitrary pedigree to politicians.
> > Don't forget the fact that you are citizens of India
> > and you are the ones who elect and nurture these
> > politicians. So be prepared to pay for your deeds and
> > share the blame among yourselves only but not on
> > IRFCA.
> > Choice is yours! Good Luck!
> > Prakash


Mischievous wording.


> I think I have hit the nail at the spot where it hurts the most !
> I dont think Mr. Tendulkar knows what is the difference between the
"elbow
> and the arse" Mr. Tendulkar we are not the ones nurturing any
bastards on
> this earth !


This is getting out of hand.. :(


> THE BRITS WERE 10000000000 ( WHATEVER YOU CAN READ THAT AS )
> BETTER THAN THESE BUNCH OF JOKERS CALLED POLITICIANS !


Better for some privileged Indians, probably. Hardly better for the
million(s) who died or suffered in famines during the Raj (stopped
happening post-1950), or died or suffered fighting for their masters in
World Wars with little recognition, or died or suffered at Partition
(many on the railways) which was a creature partly of Britain's policy
of encouraging hatred by 'divide and rule', and whose horrors were
exacerbated by Britain's wicked, callous or stupid abandonment of its
moral responsibility to ensure that the transition of power went
smoothly. And which Indian politician(s) have got away with MASS-murder
(and maiming) of thousands in cold-blood (Jalianwala Bagh)?

But the topic for this mailing-list is Indian Railways. Not all this.
Please, please, can this thread be killed here? An eye for an eye leads
to... a nation of blind people. I for one do not want to be part of an
irfca which is using bad language like this.

There could be a chain-pulling incident :)


Regards to all

Larry

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From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: I'm less confused about Calcutta area - but, still Help Needed

Date: 09 Sep 1999 05:55:27 -0500


Jishnu Mukerji said:
> lwebber@planetmail.email wrote:
> > >2. Circular Railway - Princep Ghat Eden Gardens B.B.D. Bag
> > >Burrabazar Ahiritola Sovabazar Bagbazar Tala Ultadanga Rd.
> > I believe Dum Dum Jn. is linked to Princep Ghat, but how is the
circle
> > completed?

> The circle is not completed yet. Eventually it will be completed when
> Princep Ghat is connected with the Ballygunj - Baj Baj line around
> Majherhat/Brace Bridge area, thus completing the circle Princep Ghat -
> Majherhat, Kalighat/Tollygunj, Lake Gardens, Ballygunj, via
Kakurgachhi
> Chord, Bidhannagar Road, Ultadanga Road.


Thanks!

This leads to a few more questions:

1. Kakurgachhi Chord must be the major one bypassing Sealdah - but is
Kakurgachhi the name of a station on it?

2. Kalighat and Tollyganj are on the metro line (with Rabindra Sarobar
in-between). Tollyganj (but not Kalighat) is also a stop on the
Baliganja-Baj Baj line you mention. So, why did you write
"Kalighat/Tollygunj"?

3. Assuming you meant just Tollygunj, would this be the circular route
(when completed) - please check carefully?
* Bidhannagar Road,Kakurgachhi (Chord),Park Circus,1,Sir Gurudas
Banerjee Halt,Baliganja Jn.,Lake Gardens,Tollyganj,New
Alipur,Majherhat,Brace Bridge<<LINK>>Princep Ghat,Eden Gardens,BBD
Bagh,Burrabazar,Ahiritola,Sovabazar,Bagbazar,Tala,Ultadanga
Road,Bidhannagar Road

4. Presumably Ultadanga Road is also connected to Dum Dum Jn. ?

5. I need inter-station distances for ALL in 4. & 5. above.


> Jishnu.

TIA!


Regards to all

Larry

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From: DHANAPAUL UJ <>

Subject:

Date: 09 Sep 1999 06:39:01 -0500


the gangers lorry in the site marked as gang1-3
is manufactured by
M/s.OVIS EQUIPMENTS PVT LTD,
SHED NO: 43 IDA, PHASE II,
CHERLAPALLY,
HYDERABAD 500 051
E MAIL
oep@hotmail.email
many thanks for nice photographs
dhanapaul
managing director

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