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From: Bharat Vohra <>

Subject: Oil trains on MG...

Date: 16 May 1999 14:04:58 -0500


Hi All!
Regarding MG Oil trains....yes they most definetely existed....on NFR
for
sure and might be on WR as well.
On NFR they used to carry all the oil from the fields at Digboi and
upper
Assam around Tinsukhia area......BG has only come there now!
I myself have seen long 40 8 wheeler tank wagon hauled trains on
NFR..somtimes by twin YDM4's!!
On WR as a supplement to the BG line to the north......from Kandla
port...MG
rakes possbly ran there to!
As for airbraked trains on MG...there was a proposal floated by the
Railway
board in 1996 to have the MG frieght stock operating in the Lumding
Badarpur
Hill section (1 in 30 incline) of NFR to be converted to air brake
stock!
This however did not happen!
Regards,
Bharat Vohra


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From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Long MG trackage

Date: 16 May 1999 20:11:44 -0500


Apurva wrote:
> If the maximum length of the MG run is only 1000
> Kms as per the thread running currently.......
Through the '80's I saw NFR MG wagons in Ahmedabad
on several occasions, which means that the trackage
was definitely connected. Agra was linked to
Dibrugarh town by MG, and (I think) Agra-Mathura
connected to the extensive WR MG network.

More than 2000 km actually.

--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Hubli - Ankola line

Date: 16 May 1999 20:15:55 -0500


Gang !

As per an ad in the newspapers today a new railway line is to be
inaugurated between
Hubli and Ankola today. Do you have an insight on the significance of
this new line ?

Apurva

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: MG double tracking ?

Date: 16 May 1999 22:41:23 -0500


>
>While on this MG subject, I got to thinking
>about MG double tracking: the stretch from
>Katihar to Barauni on NER used to have some
>MG doubled track. I suppose the electrified
>MG line out of Chennai is also doubled.
>Are/were there any other sections ?
>

MG line out of Madras is double only in the suburban section i.e. upto
Tambaram.

Former MG double line sections.


Delhi - Rewari
Jaipur - Phulera - Ajmer
Lucknow - Kanpur at one time
some part of Ahemedabad - Palanpur.

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: MG link

Date: 16 May 1999 22:54:31 -0500



>> as regards the longest MG run...this one has ceased to exist...but it
did
>> run not so long ago....
>> the Avadh-Tirhut Mail which used to run from Guwahati in Assam to
Lucknow
in
>> Uttar Pradesh!! An NFR train it was and at a later stage the run got
>> shortened to Siliguri..was a blue rake if I remember correctly and a
very
>> popular service too !


>
>Oh yes, I travelled on this in the days when there was no
>direct BG service from NJP to NDLS. The blue rake
>looked very smart and distinctive, and the power
>was frequently a YELLOW YDM4. What would be the
>total kilometer distance ? And did the Vaishali
>Express to Agra have a longer run ?
>


A.T. Mail , the `Blue Train' of India along with 15/16 Lucknow -
Guwahati
Exp. had a run of 1427 Km. between Lucknow and Guwahati. Izzatnagar w/s
has
lovingly maintained a couple of its coaches. The MG Assam Mail between
Barauni - Dibrugarh covered 1387 Km.

Former Vaishali Exp.(though hardly an express) on MG though will perhaps
take the cake for the all time longest MG run of 1468 Km between Agra
Fort
and Siliguri.

Not very long ago you could travel from Veraval to Dibrugarh and from
Fazilka to Rameshwaram entirely on metre gauge. Alas, Good old days!

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: catch sidings, oddities and glories.

Date: 16 May 1999 23:23:38 -0500


Dear Dr. Walker and all,
Thanks for the detailed response. It was most interesting.

I don't think IR ever bothers to recover the goods stock, even from a
minor
derailments. Their first priority is to clear the track(obviously!) and
when
that happens, its back to normal business once again. The linesides are
so
full of these lineside debris throughout the country that I've often
wondered if it must be worth a fortune even as scrap. But yes, I suppose
the
recovery cost for IR must be mammoth so it has to be arranged privately
on
`As is where is basis'.

Nevertheless they almost always take care to retrieve the engines. In
the
workshops, I have seen some completely wrecked units being painstakingly
restored. I believe Ajni and Waltair w/s sort of specialise in this.

******

Point well taken on the subject of WP as `IR Glory' instead of Oddity.
Their
semi-streamlined bullet nose appearance(apart from other features) do
make
them unique on IR but certainly not odd!!

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: MG link

Date: 16 May 1999 23:41:23 -0500




>Which is hte longest haul for the ng?
>On the 2'0", I think it is Gwalior-Sheopur Kalan.(198 km). What about
>the 2'6"? Must have been the Nagpur-Gondia-Nainpur run.


Current longest haul on 2'6" is Jabalpur - Gondia(228 Km) by Satpura
Exp.
Only a trifle lagging are the Latur - Pandharpur passenger and mixed
trains
at 216 Km.

On 2'0" Gwalior - Sheopur Kalan mixed train and diesel railcar traverse
a
distance of 200 Km.

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: electrified NG

Date: 17 May 1999 01:47:58 -0500



>Is there any electrified narrow gauge in India?
>

No

From: RAJESH GHANDHI <>

Subject: track technology terms ,railway workshops

Date: 17 May 1999 01:57:49 -0500


Hello,
I am looking for track related technical matters similar to railway
technology web site.if any body can suggest websites relating to track
information,i will be thankfull.
there has been various e-mails relating to locos and other general ,but
i
have not came across e-mail regarding various railway workshops and
information on them.information and discussion on workshops will
help in widening the discusion topic.
Regards,Rajesh

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Permission required

Date: 17 May 1999 02:35:03 -0500


Gang !

Sunday's TOI had a write-up about a senior train buff from
Mumbai, G.D. Patwardhan. He regularly writes in the TOI on the
history of the IR. In his closing comment he says that even in
the age of internet, people are still interested in railways.
He is quite right here. He says that a passing airplane may
not attract much attention, but a passing train is still
viewed with interest. I would try and OCR this article in a
day or two.
I though that the time was right to publicize the IRFCA via a
letter to the editor. I have composed a letter to the editor
in which I have given a brief introduction to the IRFCA and
how to subscribe. I am holding this mail for a day, just in
case any member specially the 'elders' of the mailing list
have any objections. This is an attempt to get more Indian
members from India itself. We desperately need more rail nuts
from the North and the East.
Awaiting any objections or additions

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Long MG trackage

Date: 17 May 1999 02:39:50 -0500




Jayant S wrote:

> Apurva wrote:
> > If the maximum length of the MG run is only 1000
> > Kms as per the thread running currently.......
> Through the '80's I saw NFR MG wagons in Ahmedabad
> on several occasions, which means that the trackage
> was definitely connected.

True ! Even I saw NR wagons at Mysore. Actually I have a NR
MG caboose photographed near Mysore on my website. But then
this is not a continuos service, these are parts of a train
which may have been marshaled many times over several months
to arrive in such places so far away from home. The original
thread was the longest MG (presumably passenger) run in
India.

> Agra was linked to
> Dibrugarh town by MG, and (I think) Agra-Mathura
> connected to the extensive WR MG network.
>
> More than 2000 km actually.
>
> --
> JS
> --

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Permission required

Date: 17 May 1999 03:16:08 -0500



> I though that the time was right to publicize the IRFCA via a
> letter to the editor. I have composed a letter to the editor
> in which I have given a brief introduction to the IRFCA and
> how to subscribe. I am holding this mail for a day, just in
> case any member specially the 'elders' of the mailing list
> have any objections. This is an attempt to get more Indian
> members from India itself. We desperately need more rail nuts
> from the North and the East.
> Awaiting any objections or additions

Should be all right. No problem with me.
Anurag can comment though, if this may lead to
being spammed on the list......

--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Catch sidings

Date: 17 May 1999 03:17:29 -0500




> But are there any new features incorporated in catchment sidingd
> of today to ensure that the heavy trains of today can be arrested
during
> runaways?

No new feature that I can think of. The idea of a catch siding seems not
so much
to save the runaway as to keep the main line clear of the runaway train.
I have
been to the top of a catch siding on the Bhore ghats, there is no
catenary there
and the track is quite poorly laid. Thus this is a last ditch method to
prevent
an even bigger disaster. I doubt if the existing catch sidings can
accommodate
a full 44 wagon BCN load with 3 WDM 2s in the lead (typical freight
train of
today).
The lack of adequately sized catch sidings prevents the Briganza ghat
between
Castle Rock and Kulem on the Londa - Vasco track from being used for
passenger
traffic. The freight trains use these ghats with these short MG sized
catch
sidings. But then these are jumbo freight trains which are the longest
and
heaviest diesel hauled trains in India. So I suppose the SCR feels that
the
freight train down the ghat is an acceptable risk but a passenger train
is not.
The problem is creating a patch of land where there is none !
Does anyone know the difference between Catch siding and Slip siding ?
Apparently in a slip siding a runaway is just allowed to leave the
tracks and
derail in a safe area. Any better explanations ? The phenomena of
leaving a
derailed wagon at its accident location is quite common, the Bhore ghat
is
littered with rusting freight wagons. The traffic is just too dense to
mount a
recovery mission. On the 3rd line from Monkey Hill to Nagnath there are
the
rotting shells of the Udyan Express rake which was switched on the wrong
line
(3rd line is Up traffic only) and collided with a descending parcel
train
leading to much loss of life.


> On a similar catchment at Pandhurna between Itarsi and Nagpur, a goods
train
> crashed on the top of the embankment(no idea when) forming a horseshoe
shape
> presents a great view from the train. Don't know how they brought the
engine
> down.

On which side is this derailed rake? Tell me the exact location so I
would also
sight it on my next trip in that area. Does this ghat require a banker ?
Which
BG lines apart from the Bhore, Thull and Briganza ghats require a
banker ?

Apurva

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Oil trains on MG...

Date: 17 May 1999 03:39:46 -0500



>Regarding MG Oil trains....yes they most definetely existed....on NFR
for
>sure and might be on WR as well.


They still work on some part of NFR. I think Joydeep would be best
placed to
tell us more.

For many years, Mathura refinary was also connected to the MG network
and
used to receive/send oil tanks, presumably on both WR and NFR.

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: MG double tracking ?

Date: 17 May 1999 04:06:23 -0500



>If the maximum length of the MG run is only 1000
>Kms as per the thread running currently, it does not make sense to
carry
such bulks by
>railways.

That is only for the passenger trains and that too in one go. MG was
spread
throughout the country(all interconnected), and certain regions like
Western, North Eastern, Northeast Frontier(Even Southern, South Central
and
North Western to a large extent) were predominently MG. There were no
isolated pockets of MG.

Harsh

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: track technology terms ,railway workshops

Date: 17 May 1999 04:15:58 -0500


Check out this site:
<A HREF="http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/">http://www.trainweb.org/railwaytechnical/</A>

Apurva

RAJESH GHANDHI wrote:

> Hello,
> I am looking for track related technical matters similar to
railway
> technology web site.if any body can suggest websites relating to track
> information,i will be thankfull.
> there has been various e-mails relating to locos and other general
,but i
> have not came across e-mail regarding various railway workshops and
> information on them.information and discussion on workshops will
> help in widening the discusion topic.
> Regards,Rajesh

From: Krishnan Anand <>

Subject: Snippets

Date: 17 May 1999 06:13:02 -0500


Hello all,
Busy for a short while but never missed out on the IR mails. I
have
a couple of points to make.
Firstly, i really do not know how many of you know that the DD rake was
a
part of SR as well. I remember to have sent off my relatives in it to
B'lore(if my memory is right) by Brindavan Express. Well that would have

been atleast 10 years back. It was a fad those days. I do agree that it
is
irritating for a well built person to travel in it.
Secondly, about the sheds at Begumpet and Sanathnagar in Hyderabad.
Begumpet
does not have a shed of its own. It is Sanath nagar which has a small
diesel
and A/C shed . Sanathnagar is a HUGE oil siding for Indian Oil
Corporation
and also houses an FCI godown. That is the reason why there is berthing
facility for Locos. Off late i have seen quite a number of the Shakthi
type
WDM locos and innumerable WAG7s.
Thirdly, adding to my relocation of Locos story, there has been another
major re-distribution of A/C locos from AJNI shed. I have seen atleast 5
of
these with Lallaguda markings and even at Chennai (Arakkonam). There
trade
mark red/cream/maroon stripes have been retained. I also spotted a
Tuglakabad WAG-5A at CONCOR in Chennai last month.
Before i forget another time, there is a second small A/C berthing
facility
made at the Tondiarpet goods yard. When ever the Basin bridge staff feel

that the A/C shed there is getting a bit too cramped there are sent
locos to
this yard at Tondiarpet. Prominenet are WAP4s in different shed colours,
all
coupled together, a lovley sight in the evenings when i proceed to Hyd.

Kind regards,
Anand


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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: electrified NG

Date: 17 May 1999 06:40:57 -0500




Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> >Is there any electrified narrow gauge in India?

I suppose the only place in the world where electric NGs exist would be
Switzerland.

>
> >
>
> No

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Catch sidings

Date: 17 May 1999 06:59:03 -0500



> > But are there any new features incorporated in catchment sidingd
> > of today to ensure that the heavy trains of today can be arrested
during
> > runaways?

What is a monkey point? Just a different term for catch siding? If
not,
what is the difference?

>
>On which side is this derailed rake? Tell me the exact location so I
would
>also
>sight it on my next trip in that area. Does this ghat require a banker
?
>Which
>BG lines apart from the Bhore, Thull and Briganza ghats require a
banker ?
>

1. Ghat section between Gujhandi and Gurpa on the Grand Chord section.
The
ER working TT indicates that a banker is required for the 2302 Dn.
Rajdhani
Exp.

2. I have seen a BOX/BOXN rake somewhere between Arakkonam and Renigunta

with a WAG4 banker.

Vijay


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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Accident jobs

Date: 17 May 1999 07:06:39 -0500


> Nevertheless they almost always take care to retrieve the engines. In
the
> workshops, I have seen some completely wrecked units being
painstakingly
> restored. I believe Ajni and Waltair w/s sort of specialise in this.

There is one workshop in all areas who does this sort of accident
restoration jobs. I
can list Matunga and Parel in Mumbai, Varangaon in Bhusawal as the
workshops which
have the equipment to deal with this. In an article about the Bhusawal
workshop
(different from Bhusawal Loco shed ?) ,the IR mag showed a totally
wrecked WAM 4 (the
cab half torn, I wonder what happened to the drivers) in a before and
after
photograph. The rebuilt loco looked as good as new. I am actually
composing a list of
unsung (have you heard of Patratu diesel shed ? Katni - Singrauli
section is swimming
with their WDM 2s), and famous loco sheds of the IR area wise. Now this
dimension also
deserved to be considered, the base repair workshops of the IR. Pune WDM
2s, NG locos
from Kurduwadi and Neral go to Matunga for their serious problems.
To refresh a point about rebuilt locos that Harsh had made some time
ago, these locos
carry the letter 'R' in their serial number. Thus you may have a WDM 2A
(variant of
the WDM 2) whose serial number is 17770 R (Rebuilt !).

Apurva

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