IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 5881 - 5900
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express
Date: 23 Apr 1999 22:02:55 -0500
>Aurangabad is emerging as a major industrial center and tourist
>attraction in Maharashtra (check out www.aurangabad-online.com),
>and deserves a fast day service to Mumbai. The authorities did not
>waste any time in providing a superfast daily service between Delhi
>and Aurangabad - Sachchkhand Exp. Why should Mumbai be left behind?
>
1) Sachkhand Exp. plies between Amritsar and Nanded. Delhi and
Aurangabad
are just in between stops.
2) The train does not work for the benefit of Delhites or Aurangabadis.
It
runs for the Sikh pilgrims from Punjab on their way to their holy shrine
at
Nanded.
3) Who from Delhi would want to go to Aurangabad on train for
business(of
all the places) when there is a flight available.
4) It is hardly a weekly train as yet, working five days a week.
Harsh
From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>
Subject: Re: Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express
Date: 23 Apr 1999 22:37:42 -0500
HI!
On Fri, 23 Apr 1999, Auroprem Kandaswami wrote:
> Couple of thoughts on this train:
>
> Will this train have reasonable patronage, leave
> alone a good one? There are already two day trains
> in a major portion of this route, i.e. Mumbai-Manmad,
> double-deckered Mumbai-Manmad Panchavati Express of
> yesteryears (introduced in mid 60's?) and more recently
> introduced Kurla Terminus-Manmad Exp. Does the traffic
> on the sector warrant a third one, that too fully Air-Conditioned?
> Added to this,I guess you have two overnight trains
> from Mumbai-Aurangabad, one being 7507 Tapovan Express.
> I don't know the other one.
Tapovan leaves Mumbai in the morning & Devgiri at night. The current
patronage for Godavari Exp leaving Kurla in the afternoon is very less.
Only on weekends & holiday season it runs nearer to full capacity.This
whole region being economically less developed, the AC coaches on these
are sometimes not even 1/3 full. So, there are less chances a full 8
coaches AC shatabdi will be beneficial to IR.
> I do expect decent patronage in Mumbai-Nasik Road section.
> Lot of companies, plants, industries in MIDC Industrial
> belt in Nasik (Satpur area) and added to this a regular stream
> of Sai devotees headed to Shirdi. I am really doubtful
> about Nasik Road-Manmad-Aurangabad section. I would
> really welcome a Mumbai-Nasik Shatabdi. Nasik, despite
> its importance and strong industrial climate, does not have a
> single train originating/terminating there. In fact,
> I was always surprised that some SF trains skip Nasik Rd halt
Yes, in a way Nashik, since long is neglected as compared with Pune.
May be various other factors are reason behind this step motherly
treatment.So, many of the business community do this sector, by the
Mumbai-Kasara by suburban then either by Taxi or ST buses.
> How about a 1 minute halt at Devlali? I guess there is some
> major Central Govt establishment here.
Devlali, is a major defense station. Army as well as a Air base.
> Projected 3h 25m looks decent from Mumbai-Nasik Rd (~188 kms)
> Is there any chance of further improvement here? This
> timing is the same as Deccan Queen from Mumbai-Pune (192 kms)
> Maybe a Shatabdi type service should do it in 3h - 3h 15m
> Any comments?
This is possible only if given lesser halts .
> I think NE line from Kalyan-Nasik has fewer kilometrage
> of ghat section and that too not as steep as Karjat-Khandala.
> There is probably a few kms of ghat section between
> Kasara-Igatpuri.
It is almost the same as Karjat-Lonavala.
Shrinivas
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: WDM2 hauling thru the ghats was Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express
Date: 23 Apr 1999 22:53:17 -0500
> In fact, my initial version had a WDM2 haul the train all the way,
> thus, cutting 10 mts. off the Igatpuri halt. This leads me to a
> question -
>
> CAN A SINGLE 2600HP WDM2 HAUL AN 8-COACH SHATABDI UP THE THUL GHATS
> WITH BANKER ASSISTANCE? Or do we need two WDM2s for the job?
One loco can easily haul a 8 coach train (60 T X 8 = 560 T) up the
ghats,
the banker is a must from the safety (precaution against coupling
failure
runaways) point of view. In any case the speeds through the ghats are
quite slow (50 Kmph) so a single loco would suffice. I have seen a
single
WDM 2 haul a 20 coach Goa Express rake between Pune and Miraj, although
there were two extra inspection coaches that day. I remember this
because
the driver was specially authorized to allow them to work such a long
train. Initially the driver refused to work the train without a written
authority to haul the extra coaches. There are some minor ghats on this
line and like mentioned before, the speeds are quite low in that
section.
Apurva
>
>
> Vijay
>
> _______________________________________________________________
> Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <A HREF="http://www.msn.com">http://www.msn.com</A>
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
Date: 23 Apr 1999 22:55:58 -0500
> Personally, I smell something murky with the DMRC
> stand: have they located an overseas equipment vendor
> who is technically unable to supply 5'6" gauge stock,
> but is offering a deal which allows for kickbacks ?
Seems like that, doen't it ? 'Fixers/ Brokers' in NDLS trying to push
in a
decision for doubtful technical advantages ? Why not duplicate the
Calcutta Metro
model in NDLS ?
Apurva
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: Chinese Trains vs. IR
Date: 24 Apr 1999 01:06:26 -0500
> The military tradition is also evident in the fact that all
> attendants salute stiffly as
> the train leaves the station.
This is something that turns me on tremenously. I remember a scene which
I watched
over and over again on video tape. This was a series called 'the urban
railways of
the world ??' or something to that idea which was shown on the BBC cable
a few
years back. (Does Viraf rememeber the correct name of the series ?).
There was a
scene where the Tokyo subway manager exchanges salutes with the driver
and points
forward in a dramatic gesture. I still get goosepimples thinking about
that scene.
I wish there was some pomp and ceremony attached to the departure of a
train in
India. But if the station manager of CSTM had to salute every train that
left his
joint, he might as well keep his palm up permanently (except between
0200 and 0400
hrs !)
Apurva
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Railways and the Agni missile
Date: 24 Apr 1999 04:33:26 -0500
Gang !
As per the India Today, the RCF Kapurthala has asked to
develop railway wagons which can house and fire the Agni 2
missile. The train would be perpetually on the move. The
entire control and communication center will be housed in the
train. When the time comes the roof of the 'Agni' coach will
slide off and the missile can be launched on our friendly
neighbours within 15 minutes. Maybe the intensive BG
conversion in Rajasthan was a precursor to this.
Apurva
From: Anurag Acharya <>
Subject: Re: IRFCA mailing list subscribers
Date: 24 Apr 1999 06:32:12 -0500
Currently, there are 103 email addresses on the mailing list. In these
days of portal (".com") addresses, it is hard to guess the destination
countries. Including Greece, my estimate would be 13 countries.
anurag
From: Vdate <>
Subject: Re: Chinese Trains vs. IR
Date: 24 Apr 1999 07:40:20 -0500
Regarding saluting the trains on Chinese Railways: It was a practice on
most
railway zones in past when an ASM or SM of wayside stations would come
on the
platform and wave green flag as a fast nonstop train sped through. If
you
were on that train, you certainly felt important and nice. Well,
atleast I
used to. Is it still a practice?
From: Vdate <>
Subject: Re: Railways and the Agni missile
Date: 24 Apr 1999 07:44:40 -0500
Mostly countries in past have used special tracks in loops to achieve
that.
From: Vdate <>
Subject: Re: IRFCA mailing list subscribers
Date: 24 Apr 1999 07:51:44 -0500
My thanks to Anurag for the yeoman service he has done. I am impressed
to
see such dedication. I wish it would inspire me! Thanks again.
From: Harsh Vardhan <>
Subject: Re: Chinese Trains vs. IR
Date: 24 Apr 1999 22:48:45 -0500
Yes, they still do it - even to the goods trains.
The correct practice is to hold the green in your left and red in your
right
hand. Even when they are using the Green, the red flag has to be kept
folded
and held down.
After dark, they use beacons, some of which(just like the semaphore
signals)
are kerosene lanterns with a coloured glasses.
Harsh
-----Original Message-----
From: Vdate@aol.email <Vdate@aol.email
To: iti@vsnl.email <iti@vsnl.email irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 6:49 AM
Subject: Re: Chinese Trains vs. IR
>Regarding saluting the trains on Chinese Railways: It was a practice on
most
>railway zones in past when an ASM or SM of wayside stations would come
on
the
>platform and wave green flag as a fast nonstop train sped through. If
you
>were on that train, you certainly felt important and nice. Well,
atleast I
>used to. Is it still a practice?
>
>
>
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: U.S. diesel locos to be housed in new Hubli shed
Date: 25 Apr 1999 01:52:57 -0500
> The designs given by the General Motors have been
modified
> and indigenised,
> incorporating the newer concepts. For example, it is
going
> to be a pitless loco
> shed, for examining the engines, which is something new
in
> the Indian Railways.
How do you think this 'pitless examination' works ? As a rule a loco has
to be seen
from beneath.
>
> The pits have been dispensed with and replaced by a
common
> floor at one level,
> which would facilitate easier movement of the workers.
>
>
>
> The new engines, which would be tested by the RDSO, for
> speed and load, would
> be put for haulage mainly of the iron ore traffic from
> Hospet to Castle Rock and
> Hospet to Guntakal sector.
The purpose of this route will be similar to the Waltair Kirandul ore
line on the east
coast ?
Apurva
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: Chinese Trains vs. IR
Date: 25 Apr 1999 01:58:12 -0500
Yes definately, I think the SM or ASM personally flags through all the
important mail/
expresses. I remember a Sardar SM who would be dressed in his best (suit
with tie) to
wave the Pragati and the Deccan Queen through a tiny station like Shelu.
Come any
weather our man was smartly dressed and smiling to welcome the crack
trains in that
section through his tiny territory. All the drivers and assistants were
keen to wave
back at him.
Apurva
Vdate@aol.email wrote:
> Regarding saluting the trains on Chinese Railways: It was a practice
on most
> railway zones in past when an ASM or SM of wayside stations would come
on the
> platform and wave green flag as a fast nonstop train sped through. If
you
> were on that train, you certainly felt important and nice. Well,
atleast I
> used to. Is it still a practice?
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: [Fwd: Metro track gauge
Date: 25 Apr 1999 07:41:51 -0500
Thanks to Richard for his comments from a global perspective. I am not
even sure if we
need to look at an imported source of equipment. This is not very high
technology that
we are talking about and I am quite sure India has enough talent and
facilities to
make a metro in New Delhi. Any idea what route the metro is supposed to
take in Delhi
?
Apurva
FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:
> Re the need for UTC standard gauge - nonsense !
>
> I believe the Japanese, and others, have supplied modern vehicles to
the
> Bueno Aires, Argentina, underground lines, most of which are btroad
gauge -
> 5' 6"
>
> There IS common use of railway and underground tracks in London, there
is
> also common use by tramway and railway vehicles in Germany.
>
> A truism for you: There are more juicy commissions to be made on
purchasing
> new equipment than there are on humdrum spare parts. A sad fact in our
> industry, worldwide.
>
> Richard Yudin
From: Mike Brooker <>
Subject: National Geographic I.R. article
Date: 25 Apr 1999 10:17:10 -0500
I also highly recommend the National Geographic/PBS Indian Railways video. It's been shown several times on my local PBS station (WNED, Channel 17, Buffalo, NY).
A National Geographic "must-read" for all I.R. fans:
The June 1984 National Geographic cover story is "By Rail Across the Indian Subcontinent" by Paul Theroux. Check out the cover photo of a steam loco, with the Taj Majal in the background. Some excellent pictures in this article (including the Darjeeling "Toy Train"), as well as a map of the rail network before and after independence, and a brief history of I.R.
You should be able to get hold of the June '84 National Geographic at your public library. Many public libraries have bound volumes of the N.G. going way, way, way back. You might even find it at your doctor's office. Doctor's waiting rooms are notorious repositories for old magazines! :-)
Thanks to everyone who helped with my request for I.R. station codes. Some are almost as obscure as the international airport codes. Some of those are self-explanatorry (LAX = Los Angeles, LHR = London Heathrow, DEL = Delhi, etc.) but how in the @#$%^ did they get ORD for Chicago (O for O'Hare, but that doesn't explain the R or the D), or YYZ for Toronto?
********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
From: Steven Brown <>
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
Date: 25 Apr 1999 20:46:20 -0500
I happen to live in the San Francisco Bay Area which is home to the only
rapid transit system in the US built on Broad Guage. I decision to build
this system was a controversial one and one that is still regretted by
many.
The result is that there will never be a unified system here. The
squabble
over which guage would be used on the airport extension went on for
years !
However purchasing equipment was never an issue. It has always been
possible
to get qualified bids for the needed equipment, but orders were always
of
significant size (50 cars or more).
Just to argue the other side a little bit :
The San Diego light rail system was started with probably less than 50
cars
and there were significant savings achieved by buying a standard railcar
(imported from Germany)through negotiations with a single manufacturer
(Duvag) rather than going to a bid process.
My opinion: unless there is a REALLY GOOD reason to go with standard
guage,
broad guage should be chosen.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: sank@telco.email <sank@telco.email
Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, April 24, 1999 12:56 AM
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
>> Personally, I smell something murky with the DMRC
>> stand: have they located an overseas equipment vendor
>> who is technically unable to supply 5'6" gauge stock,
>> but is offering a deal which allows for kickbacks ?
>
>Seems like that, doen't it ? 'Fixers/ Brokers' in NDLS trying to push
in a
>decision for doubtful technical advantages ? Why not duplicate the
Calcutta
Metro
>model in NDLS ?
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
Date: 25 Apr 1999 20:49:36 -0500
Steven Brown wrote:
> I happen to live in the San Francisco Bay Area which is home to the
only
> rapid transit system in the US built on Broad Guage. I decision to
build
> this system was a controversial one and one that is still regretted by
many.
Not surprising. I have never understood why BART was
built on the 5'6" gauge in the first place. Were any
technical reasons given for this ?
After the fanfare surrounding the whole unigauge program
for main lines, the DMRC's intention of using the UTC
standard for one system is completely incomprehensible.
Unless, of course, they plan to tunnel all the way
to China and link up with their system ? Some sort
of Beijing-Delhi trans-Himalayan service ? :)
Regarding the sourcing of equipment, and making it common
to that of the Calcutta system: does anyone have detailed
specifications for the Cal. rakes ? Also, do these rakes
share any aggregates with regular stock such as suburban
EMUs ? It seems to me that though the loading gauge would
necessarily be smaller, wheelsets, traction motors and
control equipment could be adapted as the service is
similar (stop/start with high acceleration). I suppose the
main issue would then be the different voltage on third rail ?
--
JS
--
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
Date: 25 Apr 1999 21:39:26 -0500
Steven Brown wrote:
> The "technical reason" that I remember for BART chosing the indian
guage is
> that if a train stopped on an elevated curve when the wind was blowing
at
> 100 miles per hour the train might blow off the track.
This is interesting. I remember reading somewhere
that the the Indian broad gauge was originally established
for a similar reason: to ensure stability during
gales. May have been important in the mid-1800's
when rolling stock was far lighter than it is today.
--
JS
--
From: Steven Brown <>
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
Date: 25 Apr 1999 21:43:22 -0500
The "technical reason" that I remember for BART chosing the indian guage
is
that if a train stopped on an elevated curve when the wind was blowing
at
100 miles per hour the train might blow off the track. don't ask me
about
the math. they also calculated that the Golden Gate Bridge would not be
able
to support the weight of trains on it's unused lower deck, a calculation
that is also still being argued about!
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Jayant S <sank@idane2.email
To: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Sunday, April 25, 1999 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:
>Steven Brown wrote:
>> I happen to live in the San Francisco Bay Area which is home to the
only
>> rapid transit system in the US built on Broad Guage. I decision to
build
>> this system was a controversial one and one that is still regretted
by
many.
>
>Not surprising. I have never understood why BART was
>built on the 5'6" gauge in the first place. Were any
>technical reasons given for this ?
>
>After the fanfare surrounding the whole unigauge program
>for main lines, the DMRC's intention of using the UTC
>standard for one system is completely incomprehensible.
>Unless, of course, they plan to tunnel all the way
>to China and link up with their system ? Some sort
>of Beijing-Delhi trans-Himalayan service ? :)
>
>Regarding the sourcing of equipment, and making it common
>to that of the Calcutta system: does anyone have detailed
>specifications for the Cal. rakes ? Also, do these rakes
>share any aggregates with regular stock such as suburban
>EMUs ? It seems to me that though the loading gauge would
>necessarily be smaller, wheelsets, traction motors and
>control equipment could be adapted as the service is
>similar (stop/start with high acceleration). I suppose the
>main issue would then be the different voltage on third rail ?
>
>--
>JS
>--
>
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: National Geographic I.R. article
Date: 25 Apr 1999 23:01:39 -0500
I thought the coverage given to the Pakistan railway was way too much as compared to the IR. Not that I am complaining, afterall this is the journey from Pakistan into Bangladesh. But I thought Paul Theroux slept through Indian part. However the pic of the CAWD (?) at Agra on the cover is one of the best of Indian Railways to date.
Even Theroux's book has way too much emphasis for all the parts except India.
>You might even find it at your doctor's office. Doctor's waiting rooms are notorious repositories for old >magazines! :-)
This is how I got introduced to fundamentals of (female) human body (naked tribals in some part of the world) in a National Geographic in some doctor's clinic. I can still remember the huge turn on I had on my innocent youth.
Apurva
Mike Brooker wrote: