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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Delhi Metro and DMU news

Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:05:02 -0500




Sunil Bajpai wrote:

> Hi folks!
>
> It is interesting that IR's policy too comes in for scrutiny and
debate
> here. All very natural and appropriate for such a mailing list.
>
> But, gentlemen (and ladies too, if we have them on board) do we have:
>
> . A mechanism to develop recommendations?

Actually we do have a mechanism for recommendation now - the email
addresses on the
Indian Railway website - to members of the technical and commercial
committees. What
we are discussing must have been debated over and over with the railways
themselves.
But then if we do not have a mechanism for being heard, do we not
discuss an issue at
all ? I think by discussing the facts on the IRFCA we try and fill up
the holes that
exist within a judgement of the railways.
Getting a sympathetic person from the railways on the forum will be
greatly welcome,
they are a source of great wisdom, experience and expertise, but on the
other hand if
a rule book wielding official comes along ... many of the things we
discuss are fit
only to be discussed in a company of cosy friends.
I think part of the problem is lack of internet access to the IR
officials. The
internet is the only way to run this forum. In a few years this
situation will improve
and many of them may actually be on our list.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Rakes spotted

Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:07:34 -0500




Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> Which rake does the weekly CLAT-HWH superdeluxe uses at the moment.

I have not seen this personally but this is a standard 8 coach + 2
genset rake with 5
AC 3T and 3 AC 2T coaches. I'll confirm in a while whether the new
rakes spotted were
chair cars or sleepers.

Apurva

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:10:25 -0500


Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> This is, indeed, a great video with quite a few shots of passing
trains
> hauled by electric and diesel locos. I, too, am glad to possess one.
> With regard to the first shot of the WAP1 hauled Rajdhani, what
station
> is that? Etawah? I don't seem to recall any station between Asansol
> and Barddhaman
> with that architecture - pillars between the track adjacent to the
> platform and the next track - gives a feeling that one is going
through
> a corridor!! Mirzapur also has that layout. Wish they had taken a
> complete shot of the twin WDM2 hauled Rajdhani.

You're right. It is probably Aligarh or Etawah or some such. It was
going too fast for it to be Ghaziabad. I estimated the speed to be
around 100kmph by timing the passage of a single coach by a single
pillar and doing a bit of back of the envelope number jiggling. I think
the shot between Burdwan and Asansol is the rural one taken from across
a field if memory serves me right. There is also a shot of a
non-Rajdhani electric hauled train which is possibly somewhere in the
vicinity of Ranigunj.

Jishnu.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Still more stuff from the archieve

Date: 22 Apr 1999 11:12:36 -0500


> And I just have the feeling that it was these locos which Porus
spotted at
> Busar.
>
> Question : Do these locos ever arrive at Bombay? If not, what is
2151/52
> Rajdhani power on the DC line?

There were earlier mails with WAP 1 being spotted dead in Mumbai. These
must have been
ferried dead from maybe Valsad to Parel workshops for heavy repairs like
wheel turning
etc. But apart from being towed, there is no way that the AC locos can
come in Mumbai.

Valsad WCAM 3s for all the crack trains like the 2951/52 Raj, the AK
Raj, ADI Shatabdi
etc.

Apurva

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 22 Apr 1999 12:24:20 -0500


Sridhar Shankarnarayan wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I have a copy of the same, the broadcast version, which runs a little
less
> than 2 hours. Does any one know about the addition content in the 2
hour 15
> mts 'full' version?

The full version *is* 115 minutes which is the same as 1 hour and 55
mins.

Jishnu.

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 22 Apr 1999 18:50:45 -0500


>>>> On April 22, at 11:09 (-0400) Jishnu Mukerji wrote:

> "The Great Indian Railway" is a National Geographic video ($19.95),
and
> it is more like about 2hrs (115mins). You can order it from National
> Geographic through their web store at
> <A HREF="http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm">http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm</A>. Just go to this page and
> "search in store" for "Indian Railways"

Also note that (in the US) it is still shown occasionally on the
PBS TV stations, although at rather odd times like 3am.

--Satish

From: P Y JOSHI <>

Subject: Re: Rakes spotted

Date: 22 Apr 1999 20:12:47 -0500


These rakes are of CLAT - HWH super delux as far as know.
I will confirm within 2-3 days. I had seen them some 10 days back at
CLAT.
P.Y. Joshi

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: ABB locos.

Date: 22 Apr 1999 21:45:32 -0500


Does this mean that the Rajdhani and ADI Shatabdi have a technical stop
at
Valsad. Must be at least 15 min. for the loco change.

I took AK Rajdhani last year to go to Valsad in March, but only stopped
for
a while there. Any idea where that changes locos.

Harsh

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <hvc@vsnl.email
Cc: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:13 AM
Subject: Re: Still more stuff from the archieve


>> And I just have the feeling that it was these locos which Porus
spotted
at
>> Busar.
>>
>> Question : Do these locos ever arrive at Bombay? If not, what is
2151/52
>> Rajdhani power on the DC line?
>
>There were earlier mails with WAP 1 being spotted dead in Mumbai. These
must have been
>ferried dead from maybe Valsad to Parel workshops for heavy repairs
like
wheel turning
>etc. But apart from being towed, there is no way that the AC locos can
come
in Mumbai.
>
>Valsad WCAM 3s for all the crack trains like the 2951/52 Raj, the AK
Raj,
ADI Shatabdi
>etc.
>
>Apurva
>
>
>

From: Sunil Bajpai <>

Subject: Questions of policy (was: Delhi Metro and DMU news)

Date: 22 Apr 1999 22:51:35 -0500


You have made two points Apurva:

1. Recommendations can be sent through the addresses on the web site
2. It may give us a voice if we have people from IR on this list

When I asked about a "mechanism for *developing* recommendations",
however,
I meant how do we discover or create our opinion as a group. E.g. on
certain
lists people who initiate discussion on a topic offer to edit and
logically
present the arguments from both (or all sides) and then attempt to state
the
groups' opinion. This helps create a complete and well-organised
monograph
with inputs from a lot of people!

About your second point I must come clear and announce to the group that
I
am an Indian Railway official. I hope you folks would continue to treat
me
as friend and not throw me out as an welcome intrusion. While I cannot
offer
"great wisdom, experience and expertise" I am no rule bound bureaucrat
either. Hope I can contribute in some positive manner to the groups'
objectives.

For those of you who are interested, here is what I have been doing on
IR:

Asst Works Manger, Lower Parel Workshop - 1987
Senior Mechanical Engineer, Western Railway HO - 1988
Divisional Mechanical Engineer, Bombay Division - 1988-1991
Sr. Divisional Mechanical Engineer, Bombay Division - 1991-1993
Joint Director, Engine Development Directorate, RDSO 1994-1998
Director, Engine Development Directorate, RDSO at present

Ashwini Lohani, whose name figured in one of your postings is a friend
and
Prof Dheeraj Sanghi, the founder of this list, has taught me a short
course!

I was in US last year to test the EMD engines that were mentioned in
recent
postings and have some unpublished photographs of these engines with me,
if
any of you are interested.

How public policy is developed has been an area of interest for me. And
a
course that I did at Birmingham University's School of Public Policy in
1994
has left me uneasy since then.

Regards,

Sunil
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Sunil Bajpai <sunil@lw1.email
Cc: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: 22 April 1999 23:54
Subject: Re: Delhi Metro and DMU news


>
>
>Sunil Bajpai wrote:
>
>> Hi folks!
>>
>> It is interesting that IR's policy too comes in for scrutiny and
debate
>> here. All very natural and appropriate for such a mailing list.
>>
>> But, gentlemen (and ladies too, if we have them on board) do we have:
>>
>> . A mechanism to develop recommendations?
>
>Actually we do have a mechanism for recommendation now - the email
addresses on the
>Indian Railway website - to members of the technical and commercial
committees. What
>we are discussing must have been debated over and over with the
railways
themselves.
>But then if we do not have a mechanism for being heard, do we not
discuss
an issue at
>all ? I think by discussing the facts on the IRFCA we try and fill up
the
holes that
>exist within a judgement of the railways.
>Getting a sympathetic person from the railways on the forum will be
greatly
welcome,
>they are a source of great wisdom, experience and expertise, but on the
other hand if
>a rule book wielding official comes along ... many of the things we
discuss
are fit
>only to be discussed in a company of cosy friends.
>I think part of the problem is lack of internet access to the IR
officials.
The
>internet is the only way to run this forum. In a few years this
situation
will improve
>and many of them may actually be on our list.
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: IR.

Date: 23 Apr 1999 00:52:01 -0500


In a decomocratic setup that India is, IR is no holy cow for sure that
its
actions cannot be questioned by the lesser beings.

Specially since they are behind no-one when it comes to fiascos and
scams.

Any means for taking the recommendations/suggestions to the right people
and places would be welcome. Only if they can be seen, heard and
actioned
upon and not just end up in piles of paper/cyber space.


I would believe that just about everthing comes up for discussion on the
list. I for one have no qualms about any thing. Here goes.......

Harsh

-----Original Message-----
From: Sunil Bajpai <sunil@lw1.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 4:27 AM
Subject: Re: Delhi Metro and DMU news


>Hi folks!
>
>It is interesting that IR's policy too comes in for scrutiny and debate
>here. All very natural and appropriate for such a mailing list.
>
>But, gentlemen (and ladies too, if we have them on board) do we have:
>
> . A mechanism to develop recommendations?
>
> . A voice that is heard?
>
>We need both to make a contribution. Of course, you could say we don't
want
>to make a contribution--only have fun discussing what fascinates us!
>
>Please do make me wiser about what we do and don't do here.
>
>Best regards to all of you,
>
>Sunil Bajpai
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
>To: Harsh Vardhan <hvc@vsnl.email
>Cc: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email irfca@cs.email
><irfca@cs.email
>Date: 22 April 1999 14:40
>Subject: Delhi Metro and DMU news
>
>
>>> While DMRC wants to go for 4' 83/4" which they say is the
international
>>> standard, the railway ministry wants them to adopt the 5'6" standard
>broad
>>> gauge on the IR.
>>>
>>> I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does
have
>>> weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically
backward,
>they
>>> should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not
be
>just
>>> a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
>>> they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
>opinions
>>> please?
>>
>>Dear Harsh,
>>
>>What is wrong with the Calcutta Metro technology ? I feel that it is
doing
>a
>>remarkable job considering the inputs. That is why I thought that the
use
>of an
>>imported compressor was out of place.
>>The thought of introducing a non standard gauge like 4'81/2" reminds
me of
>the
>>decision of the NRM showing off Hornby models. There is a clear lack
of
>focus
>>here. It cannot be 'Have money - spend it'. All our equipment must be
>easily
>>swappable with the general designs. In fact the Delhi metro must
follow
the
>>Calcutta model.
>>To quote an example: The DMU that ICF has developed costs Rs. 6 crores
>each,
>>while the bottom most unit from ABB would be Rs. 24 crores. Which
means
>that
>>four times more DMUs can be made for the same price. There is nothing
wrong
>with
>>the Indian designed DMU, it runs at 115 KMPH (in trials) and has less
than
>0.5%
>>imported parts. Now that is something I feel very proud about. The
issue
of
>>importing the latest technology is applicable only if we can learn the
new
>stuff
>>and spread the fruits of the learning to our existing products. Maybe
we
>need
>>some collaboration in smaller areas such as bogie design, traction
motors,
>>transformers, traction control system etc. but it would help to depend
on
>our
>>own resources for the whole product.
>>As far as the ICF DEMU (Electric transmission) is concerned BHEL (who
>supply the
>>traction alternator and motors) tried very hard to develop an
indigenous
>control
>>system but failed miserably. Now all the DEMUs are fitted with an
imported
>and
>>expensive GAC governor and that is a pity. In fact there seems to be a
>general
>>opinion in the railway circles that this part cannot be developed
within
>the
>>country and I have strong reservations about that. Maybe the low
quantities
>(not
>>more than 100 per annum) do not justify developing such a critical
part
>here.
>>
>>Apurva
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: ABB locos.

Date: 23 Apr 1999 02:41:17 -0500


Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> Does this mean that the Rajdhani and ADI Shatabdi have a technical
stop at
> Valsad. Must be at least 15 min. for the loco change.
>
> I took AK Rajdhani last year to go to Valsad in March, but only
stopped for
> a while there. Any idea where that changes locos.

That would be Vadodara where a 15 minute halt is. Porus and
Dr. Shirish Yande
have even gone and 'pataoed' the driver of the ABB power in
that period for a
closer look inside the loco (with Porus on his honeymoon trip
- could not leave
his bride as yet, Shirish had a conference the next morning at
NDLS so had to
sleep - I am talking of down journey only). ADI Shatabdi goes
through with the WCAM 2 power, all trains between BCT to ADI
run on the same dual voltage power, only the north bound
trains via Ratlam change powers at BRC.

>
>
> Harsh
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> To: Harsh Vardhan <hvc@vsnl.email
> Cc: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
> Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 10:13 AM
> Subject: Re: Still more stuff from the archieve
>
> >> And I just have the feeling that it was these locos which Porus
spotted
> at
> >> Busar.
> >>
> >> Question : Do these locos ever arrive at Bombay? If not, what is
2151/52
> >> Rajdhani power on the DC line?
> >
> >There were earlier mails with WAP 1 being spotted dead in Mumbai.
These
> must have been
> >ferried dead from maybe Valsad to Parel workshops for heavy repairs
like
> wheel turning
> >etc. But apart from being towed, there is no way that the AC locos
can come
> in Mumbai.
> >
> >Valsad WCAM 3s for all the crack trains like the 2951/52 Raj, the AK
Raj,
> ADI Shatabdi
> >etc.
> >
> >Apurva
> >
> >
> >

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Questions of policy (was: Delhi Metro and DMU news)

Date: 23 Apr 1999 02:44:47 -0500


I could have guessed that Sunil is from the railways.

Yours is one of the most significant letters that have come to
date on the IRFCA. We (including you Sunil !) here are a group
of Indian
railway lovers who take great pride in the fact that our
object of affection is the best railway in the world. As is
the Indian tradition, every evening the villagers sit together
and tell 'kathas' of the folklore or sing 'gathas' (songs of
glory) of the great events. That is what we (however loosely
organised we are) attempt to do by the internet. Think and
speak of our great Indian Railways and make an attempt to
understand the mystery and the various aspects of her
operation. For me the love of railways is my religion, for
nothing else fills me with greater sense of joy and happiness.
Please note that there are hardly any emails on the forum
about 'bad service' or 'dirty platforms' or 'late running'
etc. So we stand clear in our mission as lovers of railways
and leave the bashing of the railways to the various
'Pravasi Sanghatanas'.

It is great to actually meet someone from the railways who is
in the 'know'. Maybe you will be flooded with queries and
requests for more details.
Details of the GT 46 MAC/ WDG 4 will be welcome. Do you plan
to run them always in MU with short hood cabs on both sides ?
If not are there going to be turntables or triangles to turn
the beasts on their short hood ? If you have a scanner then
the pics could be emailed to me and I would upload them on my
website/ or on your website. Otherwise I have scanner at your
disposal but at Pune.
What is your personal opinion on the IR standard gauge vs 4'8"
gauge proposed for the Delhi Metro ?
Why is Ashwini Lohani not on the IRFCA ?

Apurva


Sunil Bajpai wrote:

> You have made two points Apurva:
>
> 1. Recommendations can be sent through the addresses on the web site
> 2. It may give us a voice if we have people from IR on this list
>
> When I asked about a "mechanism for *developing* recommendations",
however,
> I meant how do we discover or create our opinion as a group. E.g. on
certain
> lists people who initiate discussion on a topic offer to edit and
logically
> present the arguments from both (or all sides) and then attempt to
state the
> groups' opinion. This helps create a complete and well-organised
monograph
> with inputs from a lot of people!
>
> About your second point I must come clear and announce to the group
that I
> am an Indian Railway official. I hope you folks would continue to
treat me
> as friend and not throw me out as an welcome intrusion. While I cannot
offer
> "great wisdom, experience and expertise" I am no rule bound bureaucrat
> either. Hope I can contribute in some positive manner to the groups'
> objectives.
>
> For those of you who are interested, here is what I have been doing on
IR:
>
> Asst Works Manger, Lower Parel Workshop - 1987
> Senior Mechanical Engineer, Western Railway HO - 1988
> Divisional Mechanical Engineer, Bombay Division - 1988-1991
> Sr. Divisional Mechanical Engineer, Bombay Division - 1991-1993
> Joint Director, Engine Development Directorate, RDSO 1994-1998
> Director, Engine Development Directorate, RDSO at present
>
> Ashwini Lohani, whose name figured in one of your postings is a friend
and
> Prof Dheeraj Sanghi, the founder of this list, has taught me a short
course!
>
> I was in US last year to test the EMD engines that were mentioned in
recent
> postings and have some unpublished photographs of these engines with
me, if
> any of you are interested.
>
> How public policy is developed has been an area of interest for me.
And a
> course that I did at Birmingham University's School of Public Policy
in 1994
> has left me uneasy since then.
>
> Regards,
>
> Sunil
>

From: Dipl.-Ing. Nikolaus Sbarounis <>

Subject: Request for data on Darjeeling railway

Date: 23 Apr 1999 08:35:06 -0500


Dear friends,
you may be aware that the Steam_Tech Group, an Internet community
dedicated to the tecnical advance and promotion of the steam locomotive,
is preparing a series of papers in for the "ECOVAPOR" Steam railway
conference in July. One of the papers involves a case study on the
motive power of the Darjeeling - Himalaya railway. I'd like to ask you
once again for technical data and general drawings of the line and the
class B locos. Perhaps some of the IRFCA newer members may have access
to such material. Namely, we're interested for the line profile,
locomotive and rolling stock general arrangement drawings and whatever
else you think that is important and easy-to-send. Moreover, we would
like some economic data, namely:

* Cost of locomotive coal and diesel fuel in India
* Salary of train crews
* If available, quantity of passengers and freight moving by the
railway and the adjacent road

Thank you in advance for the cooperation, I hope we'll work together on
Indian steam in the future!

From: Kartik Pashupati <>

Subject: Chinese Trains vs. IR

Date: 23 Apr 1999 08:54:35 -0500


Sridhar:

Great pictures! I was less fortunate with my railway pictures when my
wife
and I toured China in December 1998. Our sole railway journey was from
Beijing to Shanghai and back.

A few random observations on my experiences, from the perspective of one
whose sole other rail travel experience has been with IR (it is sad but
true that I have not been aboard a single Amtrak train although I have
spent almost 11 years in the US!):

1. The so-called "Hard Class" sleeper on the express trains that we
traveled in seems to
compare with the comfort of the AC-3-tier coaches on IR.
At least in the winter, the train was heated. I don't know if
there is
air-conditioning in summer.

My Lonely Planet guide (highly recommended, by the way!) leads me
to
believe that this train was possibly the exception rather than the
rule (perhaps
it is a Rajdhani/ Shatabdi class train).

2. The Chinese take their eating very seriously. The fully-equipped
restaurant car
on the train had nice tables, linen, and even a small wet-bar.
Cooking
is done on
board. I had one meal on the train, and it was hot and delicious --
served in
regular bowls, not styrofoam (but with disposable chopsticks,
a la Chinese restaurants everywhere in the US).

3. Each set of 6 berths was equipped with a massive hot-water flask,
which the
passengers periodically refilled from a hot-water room labeled the
"cha-lu-shi."
There appeared to be a cha-lu-shi in alternate compartments,
although
I am
not absolutely sure about this.

4. When you board the train, the attendant (equivalent to the TTE?)
takes
away your
ticket and issues you a token. When you leave the train, you give
the
token back
and retrieve your ticket. A long-time China hand from the Indian
embassy in
Beijing told me this system probably stems from the need to monitor
and control
the movements of citizens. However, I thought it is also a rather
neat
way to
monitor occupancy levels and berth vacancies. (The attendant has a
folder for the
plastic tokens. Each token has a unique slot in the folder, so the
attendant can
tell at a glance how many berths are occupied -- and which ones
exactly.) This also
allows attendants to tell passengers when to get off.

5. Possibly stemming from a military tradition, Chinese railway
employees
appear to
have greater respect for their uniforms than IR employees. Their
uniforms
and coats are well-maintained (in perspective, I must say that
almost
ALL
the Chinese people you see are extremely well dressed, especially
in
Beijing.
As tourists from the US, we felt rather shoddy in our sneakers and
jeans).

The military tradition is also evident in the fact that all
attendants salute stiffly as
the train leaves the station. Incidentally, on our return trip
from
Shanghai, one of
the attendants (most appeared to be females) spent quite a bit of
time arranging
all the passengers' shoes in a neat line. I think this was over
and
above the
normal call of duty.

Incidentally, the overall level of cleanliness on the train was
much
better than
IR's standards. (Again, I don't know if this is an exception or
the
rule...)

6. As the Lonely Planet guide had warned us, the public address system
blares a
constant stream of music and government propaganda, at least in
the
opening
hours of the journey. Unfortunately, I don't
know Mandarin, but from the procession of names being trotted out,
it
sounded
like a litany of leaders in Communist China, starting from Mao
Zedong and
leading up to Jiang Zimin.

7. A rolling LED display in the dining car (and in some of the other
cars)
showed
the current speed of the train, the last station and the expected
time
of arrival
at the next station. We encountered this display only in the
Shanghai-Beijing
train and not on the Beijing-Shanghai train (which was a different
express).

8. All passengers on the Shanghai-Beijing train were given nice little
silk
handkerchiefs as souvenirs. Unfortunately, my complete lack of
Chinese
language
skills (and the other passengers' lack of English) precluded me
from
determining
the special occasion for this cute railway souvenir!


------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
"Only Robinson Crusoe had everything done by Friday."

Kartik Pashupati, Ph.D. (kpashupa@mailer.email

Florida State University
Department of Communication
356 Diffenbaugh Building
Tallahassee FL 32306-1531
Phone: 850-644-1809; Fax: 850-644-8642
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Website: <A HREF="http://mailer.fsu.edu/~kpashupa">http://mailer.fsu.edu/~kpashupa</A>

From: Auroprem Kandaswami <>

Subject: Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express

Date: 23 Apr 1999 10:48:24 -0500



Hi co-railnuts,

First, I would like to thank Vijay for sharing his "dream"
Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express. While this train
is a dream one right now, it could become an overnight
reality, given the fluid nature (gaseous would be more
appropriate) of our political system. I am sure if the
next Rail Mantriji is from Marathwada, he will start
will start this train on the day of assuming office.

Couple of thoughts on this train:

• Will this train have reasonable patronage, leave
alone a good one? There are already two day trains
in a major portion of this route, i.e. Mumbai-Manmad,
double-deckered Mumbai-Manmad Panchavati Express of
yesteryears (introduced in mid 60's?) and more recently
introduced Kurla Terminus-Manmad Exp. Does the traffic
on the sector warrant a third one, that too fully Air-Conditioned?
Added to this,I guess you have two overnight trains
from Mumbai-Aurangabad, one being 7507 Tapovan Express.
I don't know the other one.

• I do expect decent patronage in Mumbai-Nasik Road section.
Lot of companies, plants, industries in MIDC Industrial
belt in Nasik (Satpur area) and added to this a regular stream
of Sai devotees headed to Shirdi. I am really doubtful
about Nasik Road-Manmad-Aurangabad section. I would
really welcome a Mumbai-Nasik Shatabdi. Nasik, despite
its importance and strong industrial climate, does not have a
single train originating/terminating there. In fact,
I was always surprised that some SF trains skip Nasik Rd halt

• How about a 1 minute halt at Devlali? I guess there is some
major Central Govt establishment here.

• Projected 3h 25m looks decent from Mumbai-Nasik Rd (~188 kms)
Is there any chance of further improvement here? This
timing is the same as Deccan Queen from Mumbai-Pune (192 kms)
Maybe a Shatabdi type service should do it in 3h - 3h 15m
Any comments?

I think NE line from Kalyan-Nasik has fewer kilometrage
of ghat section and that too not as steep as Karjat-Khandala.
There is probably a few kms of ghat section between
Kasara-Igatpuri.

Auro

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express

Date: 23 Apr 1999 12:47:48 -0500


Thanks for your comments, Auro.


> Hi co-railnuts,
>
> First, I would like to thank Vijay for sharing his "dream"
> Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express. While this train
> is a dream one right now, it could become an overnight
> reality, given the fluid nature (gaseous would be more
> appropriate) of our political system. I am sure if the
> next Rail Mantriji is from Marathwada, he will start
> will start this train on the day of assuming office.

I would like the next rly. minister to be from Maharashtra or
Varanasi :-)


>
> Couple of thoughts on this train:
>
> • Will this train have reasonable patronage, leave
> alone a good one? There are already two day trains
> in a major portion of this route, i.e. Mumbai-Manmad,
> double-deckered Mumbai-Manmad Panchavati Express of
> yesteryears (introduced in mid 60's?) and more recently
> introduced Kurla Terminus-Manmad Exp. Does the traffic
> on the sector warrant a third one, that too fully Air-Conditioned?
> Added to this,I guess you have two overnight trains
> from Mumbai-Aurangabad, one being 7507 Tapovan Express.
> I don't know the other one.
^^^^^^^^^^ Devgiri Exp.

Aurangabad is emerging as a major industrial center and tourist
attraction in Maharashtra (check out www.aurangabad-online.com),
and deserves a fast day service to Mumbai. The authorities did not
waste any time in providing a superfast daily service between Delhi
and Aurangabad - Sachchkhand Exp. Why should Mumbai be left behind?

Note that the Shatabdi would be 1 1/2 hrs. faster than the Tapovan
Exp. and complement its schedule between Mumbai and Aurangabad.


>
> • I do expect decent patronage in Mumbai-Nasik Road section.
> Lot of companies, plants, industries in MIDC Industrial
> belt in Nasik (Satpur area) and added to this a regular stream
> of Sai devotees headed to Shirdi. I am really doubtful
> about Nasik Road-Manmad-Aurangabad section. I would
> really welcome a Mumbai-Nasik Shatabdi. Nasik, despite
> its importance and strong industrial climate, does not have a
> single train originating/terminating there. In fact,
> I was always surprised that some SF trains skip Nasik Rd halt

As you mentioned, we already have two day trains for Mumbai-Nasik
folks - Kurla-Manmad and Panchavati. So, I am not sure whether we
need a train that terminates at Nasik itself. Since the Shatabdi
passes through Nasik, no harm in providing a halt there and giving
Nasik it's fastest connection to Mumbai. In fact, the duration could
be increased to 5 or even 10 mts. depending on the traffic.


>
> ൠHow about a 1 minute halt at Devlali? I guess there is some
> major Central Govt establishment here.
>
There is an artillery training school here. IMHO, not big enough to
warrant a Shatabdi halt.


> • Projected 3h 25m looks decent from Mumbai-Nasik Rd (~188 kms)
> Is there any chance of further improvement here? This
> timing is the same as Deccan Queen from Mumbai-Pune (192 kms)
> Maybe a Shatabdi type service should do it in 3h - 3h 15m
> Any comments?

In fact, my initial version had a WDM2 haul the train all the way,
thus, cutting 10 mts. off the Igatpuri halt. This leads me to a
question -

CAN A SINGLE 2600HP WDM2 HAUL AN 8-COACH SHATABDI UP THE THUL GHATS
WITH BANKER ASSISTANCE? Or do we need two WDM2s for the job?


Vijay

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From: Vdate <>

Subject: Fw: Mumbai-Aurangabad Shatabdi Express

Date: 23 Apr 1999 13:21:13 -0500


From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: IRFCA mailing list subscribers

Date: 23 Apr 1999 19:55:46 -0500


Nikolaus,

This is from the archives - sometimes from two years ago. Today our dear
friends from
Greece have a place of honour on the IRFCA.

Maybe Anurag (the railnut who minds the list) should fill in the latest
statistics.

Apurva

"Dipl.-Ing. Nikolaus Sbarounis" wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Apr 1999 18:08:54 +0530, Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> >He should have all the details about the
> > current strength of the list (more than 100?), the names, etc.
> > BTW, how many countries are represented: USA, UK, India,
> > ......?
> >
> > Please fill in the details, fellow IRFCAites!!
>
> You can add Greece to the countries represented, I'm a 35-year old
railway
> systems engineer working for the Athens Metro. More details about me
here:
> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7209/CURRICULUM_VITAE.htm">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7209/CURRICULUM_VITAE.htm</A>
>
> ________________________________________________
> Visit my rail website:
> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7209">http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/7209</A>
>
> _______________________________________________________
> Get your free, private email at <A HREF="http://mail.excite.com/">http://mail.excite.com/</A>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: DMRC Gauge Issue:

Date: 23 Apr 1999 20:39:20 -0500


Harsh wrote:
> I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does have
> weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically backward,
they
> should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not
be just
> a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
> they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
opinions
> please?

I can't quite understand why they would even think of the
standard gauge. Justifying it as the "international
standard" makes sense only if DMR lines were actually
interchanging with some major system which uses the
same gauge. It is interesting that the Railway
Board is thinking of running DMR stock on the main line:
are there precedents for this kind of operation anywhere
else (Britain perhaps ?). What would be the issues
regarding third-rail electrification out in the open
in Indian conditions ?

IR has pulled off effective technology transfer deals
in the past (the WDM2 from Alco, and the new GM-EMD
locos), and the Railway Board should be allowed to
have its say here as well.

Personally, I smell something murky with the DMRC
stand: have they located an overseas equipment vendor
who is technically unable to supply 5'6" gauge stock,
but is offering a deal which allows for kickbacks ?

Incidentally, what is the structure of the DMRC
(personnel, experience levels, ministry involvment,
reporting structures etc.) ?

--
Jayant S
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: ABB locos.

Date: 23 Apr 1999 21:50:34 -0500


Harsh wrote:
> Does this mean that the Rajdhani and ADI Shatabdi have a technical
stop at
> Valsad. Must be at least 15 min. for the loco change.
The loco change happens at Vadodara, from where
a WCAM3 takes over haulage to Mumbai No technical
halt is required during the AC to DC changeover.

--
JS
--

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