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From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Plinthed loco 740.

Date: 12 Nov 1998 21:53:52 -0500



Hello Harsh & All,

Yesterday evening I was going through my "Kachra" (garbage- the name
given
to my collection of old newspaper cuttings/magazines/pictures pertaining
to the railways by my Home Minister) and atlast solved the mystery of
the
Matheran loco no.740.

This is the report from the "Steam railway" mag.(month not known)

The cutting shows the plinthed Matheran tank at a gradient of 1-inch-20
and this is what is mentioned.

"Above-The gradient is 1-in-20, but it leads nowhere. Peterborough's
Railwaorld project has recently installed this 2ft gauge 0-6-0T mountain
loco from India's Matheran Light Railway on an inclined plinth near the
East Coast main Line in the city. The Orenstein & Koppel-built loco,
No740, which also acts as an advertisement for the Nene Valley Railway,
was a gift from the Indian Government and is seen on january 1, 1990."

There is another report from the same mag.

Railworld, the Peterborough based international railway museum project
which still needs at least 4 million pounds capital to turn vision into
reality, has taken delivery of an engine from the 2ft gauge matheran
Light
railway in India.

Stored since 1986 at Amberley Chalk Pits Museum in Sussex, the 1907
Orenstein & Koppel was a gift from the Indian Government to Britain five
years ago, in recognition of the help given by Railworld cofounder Mike
Satow in establishing the Indian National Railway Museum.

An articulated engine with driving wheels designed to "steer" around the
tight 45ft curves of the steeply graded Matheran Line, it was driven and
fired by Mike Satow in India prior to its withdrawal. Satow, builder of
the replica "Locomotion" for the Stockton & Darlington 150 celebration
in
1975, has donated 500 Pounds towards the cosmetic restoration of the
engine.

The Northampton office of German loco builders Orenstein & Koppel has
similarly donated 300 pounds towards the 900 pounds cost of building a
temporary display compound for the engine at the Railworld site,
adjacent
to the Nene Valley Railway's Peterborough terminus, while Peterborough
diesel manufacturers Perkins Engines undertook transportation of the
loco
from Sussex free of charge.

Visitors to the site will see the tiny 18-ton O7K mounted on a short
section of track inclined at 1 in 20 - the gradient it tackled almost
daily during 75 years' service in India. Ultimately, when the Railworld
main exhibition hall is built, the engine will be displayed with two or
three suitable coaches, as a "Travel set".



In December, the TSB Foundation donated 1,000/- pounds towards the
building of a permanent home for Railworld.



==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: train liveries

Date: 13 Nov 1998 00:44:47 -0500


> If I recall the picture, it was at a station within an AC-electrified
> section; so it couldn't have been the Udyan Exp. since the only
section
> where it is single-headed is Pune-Solapur.

Is Bangalore - Dharmavaram electrified ?

> There used to a special counter at
> Bombay Central for the Raj. where ticket booklets (similar to
airlines) used
> to be issued. The service was impeccable and basically everyone got
their
> money's worth.

Shyama & I had been on a train hopping trip to Mysore in 1986 or so
(taking
whichever train came next in the general direction). The Mysore booking
office
was something like an airlines booking office - women in silk sarees,
extremely
polite men in two piece suits - helping along to smoothen out any
difficulty
that their passengers may face during booking of tickets - the magic of
southern
railways ! We were not buying any Shatabdi Exp .tickets but ordinary
second
class tickets for the overnight passenger to Miraj. It is the native
culture of
the place I guess.
After I retire (after 40 years or so !) I am going to settle down in
Mysore !

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: train liveries

Date: 13 Nov 1998 00:48:12 -0500





> I also would like to know, The WDM2's that I saw had quite a variety
of
> paint schemes, quite apart from the trains they hauled.
> Larry

I have seen an immaculate pair of WDM 2s from Kazipeth shed with a
bright
white main paint and the tri colours of the Indian Flag. This was
hauling in an
air braked freight in the up yard at Pune sometime last year. These were
new
locos - you could hear the crisp beat of a well tuned engine.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Daboo's book

Date: 13 Nov 1998 01:02:36 -0500


> Also appears to be a white KJM mark on the lower edge
> of the cab. In both cases the "J" is slightly longer than the other
> letters.

The longer 'J' is a trademark of the KJM shed.

> Of equal interest is (I think) another WDM2 in the background (the >
nose only is visible) which is in the same red, cream and blue livery >
as the coaching stock.

That may be the Bangalore - New Delhi Rajdhani rake.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Hugh Hughes' books

Date: 13 Nov 1998 06:59:06 -0500




> The train is painted in swarnajayanti (50 years of Independence)
colours
> and when he showed this picture to the S.R. officials in Madras
> recently they claimed that the Northeners have stolen their colour
scheme.
>

The once a week Nizamuddin - Mysore Express via Daund - Pune - Miraj -
Hubli -
Bangalore has one of the best liveries of rakes out of Pune. If I
remember
correctly it is off white with red, green and blue stipes along the
sides. The AC
coaches are normal rust coloured though.

Apurva

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Hugh Hughes' books

Date: 13 Nov 1998 07:41:24 -0500


> >
> >
> > Sorry to spoil you fun(and with apologies to my friend I.S.
> Anand who
> > contributed that picture) but this is definately not Goa
> Express. Having
> > travelled in this train on more than a couple of occasions
> in the past few
> > months, I failed to notice anything new about its livery.
> Also, seen at the
> > helm of the affairs is a SR loco, very unlikely for Goa Express !
> >
> > In all probability, it is a SR train(Udyan perhaps). Can
> someone throw any
> > light please?
> >
>
> Harsh,
> I had a talk with Anand regarding this and he says that the
> train is 100%
> Goa Express hauled by the KJM - Krishnarajapuram Shed
> (Bangalore) Loco.
>
> The train is painted in swarnajayanti (50 years of
> Independence) colours
> and when he showed this picture to the S.R. officials in Madras
> recently they claimed that the Northeners have stolen their
> colour scheme.
>

Is it possible that this is the Nizamuddin-Bangalore Swarna Jayanti Exp.
via
Hubli with the
photo being shot at Bangalore? This would be consistent with: 1)
choice of
livery,
2) origin of WDM2 loco. and 3) presence of electric traction structures.

It seems unlikely that they would have picked the Goa Exp. of all trains
to
be repainted in the tri-color scheme.

Vijay

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Hugh Hughes' books

Date: 13 Nov 1998 07:48:55 -0500


> > The train is painted in swarnajayanti (50 years of
> Independence) colours
> > and when he showed this picture to the S.R. officials in Madras
> > recently they claimed that the Northeners have stolen their
> colour scheme.
> >
>
> The once a week Nizamuddin - Mysore Express via Daund - Pune
> - Miraj - Hubli -
> Bangalore has one of the best liveries of rakes out of Pune.
> If I remember
> correctly it is off white with red, green and blue stipes
> along the sides. The AC
> coaches are normal rust coloured though.

Will it be possible for you to snap this up at Pune, scan it and post it
on
the web? I would love to add this to my collection. Also, it would be
great if someone could scan in photos of the Pune Shatabdi and the
Vidarbha
Exp. as well.

Thanks,
Vijay

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: train liveries

Date: 13 Nov 1998 10:36:25 -0500


Hi Gang

Since these are my first comments (on anything) for fellow fans, some
information would be known by all.

Some SCR carriages are noticed to be the normal brown-maroon but with
two
distinct bands
of yellow, one just below and just above the window.
I noticed this on many SCR trains - Koyna, Krishna, Goa expresses

Konkan Railway carriages - under KRCL charge, like the 1114/1113
Ratnagiri
Dadar Passenger
and the 0111/0112 Mumbai Madgaon Express are bright blue in colour with
yellow or red bands
just above and below the windows

Mumbai - Pune day trains (Deccan Queen/Indrayani/Pragati/Deccan/Sinhagad
Expresses
& Mumbai Manmad (only the Panchavati Express and not the Kurla MMR
Godavari
Express)
trains have a uniform white (upper) and navy blue (windows downwards)
with a bright red band above the windows
The Shatabdi retains its 'famous' livery

The Diva - Vasai DMU train has a white upper and a prussian blue lower
portion with a green band
just above the window. Some WD locos with this colour (sans the green
band)
can be found in the
Mumbai area homed at Kalyan Shed

Last week some new AC carriages were spotted in Kurla Terminus -
I guess they are for the new Kurla Howrah and Kurla Nagpur weekly deluxe
AC
expresses
likely to be Introduced in December. They also have the same colours as
the
Rajdhani

Last Sunday at 1645 hrs at Pune I witnessed the departure of the Mysore
-
Nizamuddin via MRJ
Swarnajayanthi express. The livery was quite unique where there was a
red
top (upper portion
above the window line), white middle (window area) and blue lower
portion
- I thought this to be quite unique.

On Wednesday at 1715 at Pune I had a close up view of the Goa Express it
was
the normal colours with the characteristic yellow window bands of SCR
trains. The train was bound and based at Hubli.
Any idea when it will actually run through to Vasco?? I wonder whats up
for
1 - 2 years now as both the
Vasco Madgaon Kulem and Castle Rock Londa sections are open.
Whats the delay on opening the Castle Rock Dudhsagar Falls Kulem
section??


-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Russell <lrussell@direct.email
To: Balasubramanian, Vijay <vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 11:06 PM
Subject: RE: train liveries


>(snip)
>
>>Since we are on the topic of liveries, I would like to request anyone
who
>>happens to spot a distinct liveried train (other than
Rajdhani/Shatabdi)
to
>>share that with the net. As you may guessed, I love to keep track of
train
>>liveries and would, ideally, like to have a photo/video collection of
all
>>the distinct liveries on IR.
>
>I also would like to know, The WDM2's that I saw had quite a variety of
>paint schemes, quite apart from the trains they hauled.
>Larry
>
>
>
>

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: train liveries

Date: 13 Nov 1998 11:41:02 -0500


Thanks, Rajan, for the detailed information.

>
> Konkan Railway carriages - under KRCL charge, like the
> 1114/1113 Ratnagiri
> Dadar Passenger
> and the 0111/0112 Mumbai Madgaon Express are bright blue in
> colour with
> yellow or red bands
> just above and below the windows

Reminds me of the Egmore-Tiruchi Cholan Exp. Does the Matsyagandha Exp.
have this color as well?

>
> Mumbai - Pune day trains (Deccan
> Queen/Indrayani/Pragati/Deccan/Sinhagad
> Expresses
> & Mumbai Manmad (only the Panchavati Express and not the
> Kurla MMR Godavari
> Express)

When did they rename the Kurla-Manmad Exp. as Godavari Exp.? What
happened
to the Hyderabad-Visakhapatnam Godavari Exp.?


> Last week some new AC carriages were spotted in Kurla Terminus -
> I guess they are for the new Kurla Howrah and Kurla Nagpur
> weekly deluxe AC
> expresses
> likely to be Introduced in December. They also have the same
> colours as the
> Rajdhani.

The similarity to the Raj ends there b'coz the halt pattern + speed is
pathetic :-(


>
> Last Sunday at 1645 hrs at Pune I witnessed the departure of
> the Mysore -
> Nizamuddin via MRJ
> Swarnajayanthi express. The livery was quite unique where
> there was a red
> top (upper portion
> above the window line), white middle (window area) and blue
> lower portion
> - I thought this to be quite unique.

Additional evidence supporting my conjecture that the train picturized
on
the cover of Daboo's book is the Swarnajayanthi exp.


Vijay

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Favorite train

Date: 13 Nov 1998 12:35:34 -0500


Folks,

Here is a topic, posed as a question, that everyone on this net can
contribute to - "What is your favorite train and why?"

Let me kick this off:

Pre-1985 favorite train - Ganga Kaveri Exp. (Varanasi-Madras Central)
(used to be) the fastest train from Varanasi and the second fastest
in
the Itarsi-Madras section after the Tamilnadu/AP/KK batch (at that time
they
used to be bundled together). It had comparable run-times with the GT
and
was a shade faster in certain sections such as Balharshah-Sirpur. At
its
inception, it had a unique orange-yellow-blue livery which was changed
to
green-yellow by the early 80s. A total of 9 halts to start with -
Allahabad, Satna, Jabalpur, Itarsi, Nagpur, Balharshah, Kazipet,
Vijayawada
and Gudur. When I traveled on it during the winter of 1981, it had
acquired
Bhadohi, Katni, Pipariya and Sirpur Kaghaz Nagar as additional halts.
Since
Varanasi is my home town, I have a soft spot for prestigious trains from
this city.

Post-1985 favorite train - Mumbai - New Delhi Rajdhani Exp.
Most prestigious train from Mumbai with a no-nosense halt pattern
(Vadodara, Ratlam and Kota) and a high commercial speed -> 81-83 kmph.
First train to acquire air-braked coaches, and the first train to have
mobile phone facility. First Rajdhani to be double-headed.

Looking forward to all your contributions........


Regards,
Vijay

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: Through trains in Termini

Date: 13 Nov 1998 18:43:16 -0500


Dear Friends

In Howrah, I believe quite a few trains do this type of reversal, and a
change of zone also from SER to ER
Bhubaneshwar Delhi Rajdhani exp
Trivandrum Central/Bangalore City/Cochin HTS to Guwahati

I dont know whether "our conversation piece", the Nizamuddin Mysore
Swarnajayanti Express does a turn at
Bangalore City
The Kurla Terminus Coimbatore express does make such a U-turn at
Bangalore
City

Mumbai has always been strictly a terminus point for various
railways/trains
and no examples exist here.
If trains originating on WR require to move over to CR, the Vasai Diva
Link
is used. Thus trains from Gujarat bound for Secunderabad/Pune/Coimbatore
via
Kalyan to Pune/onwards. Trains for south like the NZM - TVC Rajdhani
Express
from Diva proceed to Panvel and onward via the KR - Konkan Railway

Even Hyderabad which has a terminus does not have any trains doing this
kind
of a reversal. Trains pass through Secunderabad

In Chennai, there are still qite a few trains that do this reversal.
Guwahati - Trivandrum and Cochin trains. There are a few other trains
from
north doing this reversal.

!------------------------------------------------------------------!
! Rajan Mathew - Mumbai !
! rajanmathew@usa.email !
!------------------------------------------------------------------!

-----Original Message-----
From: Jayant S <sank@telco.email
To: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Monday, November 09, 1998 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: Through trains in Termini


>> I was thinking about how many through trains use termini like Chennai
>> Central or Howrah. Let me simplify. There are many trains which come
to
>> Chennai central on their dead end platform, then a loco is attached
on
>> the other end and then the trains goes elsewhere. I have seen a
Rajdhani
>> (Trivandrum - NDLS I think) do this at Chennai before the advent of
>> Konkan rail. This sort of trains never have used the Mumbai CSTM. Can
>> the gang list any other trains and termini which fit this description
?
>
>While not strictly a terminus, Siliguri used to feature reversals
>on MG trains travelling between Guwahati and Katihar.
>One possibly unique station move is that of trains on the
>DHR at Kurseong station. Trains to Darjeeling move into the
>platform roads which are on spurs. To resume their journey
>they have to REVERSE back out on the main line. Trains from
>Darjeeling reverse into Kurseong station, and then move
>straight out again to continue. I can't think of any other place
>with this kind of operation.
>
>--
>Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
>Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
>TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
>--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Favorite train

Date: 13 Nov 1998 19:21:04 -0500


Balasubramanian, Vijay wrote:

> Here is a topic, posed as a question, that everyone on this net can
> contribute to - "What is your favorite train and why?"
For me it was the Delhi Mail, a slow train which used to travel
between Delhi Jn and Ahmedabad in MG days. Unlike the fast and
somewhat impersonal Ashram Express, the Delhi Mail had some
character. I always found the daytime passage through Rajasthan
fascinating. The train was ususally empty. It was dwarfed by
the wild landscape through which it twisted and turned like
a fidgety worm, with the YDM4 screaming its way up the
frequent gradients. It would stop frequently at small stations
in the desert, which had a red-earthed uniqueness to them.
Sad that MG on this section is gone. I've never done the
BGroute, but it can't possibly be the same, can it ?

Haven't travelled much by train lately except the clinical
(though efficient) Rajdhani sets, so I cannot say I have
a favourite train at the moment.....someday again, maybe.
--
Jayant S
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Discovery channel

Date: 13 Nov 1998 19:27:14 -0500


Gang !

The local paper in Pune lists a program on the Discovery channel today -
Saturday or tomorrow Sunday, at 2300 Hrs India standard time on railway
disasters. The date is not clear. The writer wonders why anyone would
want to watch train disasters. I really wonder why we railway
enthusiasts are in such short supply.
Be sure to catch the program.

Apurva

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Favorite train

Date: 13 Nov 1998 20:43:15 -0500



Hi All,

Even my favourite train is THE FRONTIER.
Like Bharat I too see it everyday but in the mornings when it runs
parallel with my local train. Boy it does makes my day. I have fond
memories of THE FRONTIER when it used to be steam hauled. Give me
Frontier
anyday who cares for the Rajdhani.

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: train liveries

Date: 13 Nov 1998 22:36:49 -0500


-----Original Message-----
From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email
To: Rajan Mathew <rajanmathew@usa.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 1:29 AM
Subject: RE: train liveries


Konkan Railway carriages - under KRCL charge, like the 1114/1113
Ratnagiri
Dadar Passenger and the 0111/0112 Mumbai Madgaon Express are bright blue
in
colour with yellow or red bands just above and below the windows
+This applies to the General Second (GS/SC) and Luggage (SL) coaches of
these two trains only. Upper classes of present appear to be rolling
stock
of IR on lease to KRCL and are of various railways - CR / SCR / SR. One
can
observe the 0111 rake in the day idling near Byculla with its cocktail
mix
of coaches - approx. 7 coaches blue and the rest standard. We should
have
some pix in the near future.

Reminds me of the Egmore-Tiruchi Cholan Exp. Does the Matsyagandha Exp.
have this color as well?
+ The Matsyagandha and Netravati have standard livery

When did they rename the Kurla-Manmad Exp. as Godavari Exp.? What
happened
to the Hyderabad-Visakhapatnam Godavari Exp.?

I was wondering about the same thing. The "Original" Godavari express is
the
Andhra one. It is referred by quite some people as this train and even
in
Kurla Terminus
the list states it as the Godavari Express
May be they should rename it the West Godavari express to remove the
confusion. In any case there should be removal of any confusion on the
actual name

Last Sunday at 1645 hrs at Pune I witnessed the departure of the Mysore
-
Nizamuddin via MRJ Swarnajayanthi express. The livery was quite unique
where
there was a red top (upper portion above the window line), white middle
(window area) and blue lower portion

Additional evidence supporting my conjecture that the train pictured on
the
cover of Daboo's book is the Swarnajayanthi exp.

+ I confirm Apurva's observation about the AC Sleeper coach which has
the
standard livery

I thought I had forgotten something when I didn't mention the Vidharbha
Express which has very interesting colours of grey, white and bright
blue

The Karnavati Express to Ahmedabad also has a different livery though
the
color scheme seems close to the Shatabdi Express.

Of late, some WCAM Bhel engines - model numbers still confuse me are
being
repainted

-------------------------------------
Rajan Mathew - Mumbai
rajanmathew@usa.email
------------------------------------

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: Favorite train

Date: 13 Nov 1998 22:44:30 -0500


I was of the opinion that the Frontier Mail should have retained its
name
and the Paschim Express renamed the Golden Temple Express


-----Original Message-----
From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <protip@giasbmc.email
To: Balasubramanian, Vijay <vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Saturday, November 14, 1998 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: Favorite train


>Hi All!
>My favourite train since childhood has been and will continue to be the
>2903 DN/04 UP Frontier Mail of WR!!
>I have great memories of this train and even though its service has
>detiorated and it lacks the glory of its past days, I still havge a
soft
>spot for it!!
>Even today, I stop to see it pass Mahalaxmi station at night on my way
>back home and given half a chance I travel by it rather then by
Rajdhani,
>even though they are much faster!
>
>Frontier apart from being one of the oldest and most prestigious mail
>trains in the country, is also one of the most punctual trains even to
>this day....probably one of the better punctuality records throughout
IR!
>Another thing I like about Frontier is is long stretches of non stop
runs
>during its day journey past MP, Rajasthan while headiong for
Delhi.....and
>as my dad used to say, this is the way trains should be run!
>
>A pity they changed its name to Golden Temple Mail....thats like
changing
>history....but to me the Frontier will always be the Frontier and will
>continue to be my favourite!
>
>Rgards,
>Bharat Vohra
>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Favorite train

Date: 13 Nov 1998 23:34:21 -0500




Balasubramanian, Vijay wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Here is a topic, posed as a question, that everyone on this net can
> contribute to - "What is your favorite train and why?"

PSMT! A monorail with a road wheel is weird enough, but having a
sideways
firebox to boot
just seems perverse. I *LOVE IT*!

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Favorite train

Date: 13 Nov 1998 23:38:26 -0500



OK - If we're strictly meaning a "train" - then my last answer was a bit
off
the point.
In that case, I'll have to take the EMU's on the Calcutta - Singur run,
just
because I've so many
memories of delightful things happening on them.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Steam Engine Driving position

Date: 14 Nov 1998 01:22:54 -0500


Gang !

I need info on this. Seeing a steam loco being driven is a hazy memory
now - Did the WP and WG drivers ever have a seat to sit on ? I think
there was a wooden slat that extended from the window (?) towards the
firebox on which the driver sat. The lack of space in a MG locos
prevented such an arrangement and the crew had to stand all the way (
upto 12 hours at a stretch).
I need confirmation on one bizarre practice found on the NG stream
locos on the IR (and only on the IR ?) - The driver actually sat on a
seat that was OUTSIDE the loco in the slipstream. I have seen a
Gwalior - Sheopur Kalan N class (?) loco (in a picture) with a driver
on an 'external' seat. What was the reason of this arrangement and how
did the driver get in and out of his seat in a hurry ?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Hugh Hughes' books

Date: 14 Nov 1998 01:34:38 -0500


> Will it be possible for you to snap this up at Pune, scan it and post
it on
> the web? I would love to add this to my collection. Also, it would
be
> great if someone could scan in photos of the Pune Shatabdi and the
Vidarbha
> Exp. as well.

Yes - will do that soon, Swaran Jayanti & Shatabdi at Pune - the
Vidhabha
express will have to be shot by one of the Mumbai gang though.Strangely
I saw a
white rake with a red stripe on the Sangam bridge going towards Mumbai
at 1320
Hours today. I was too far away to give this rake a chase and I am in a
fix to
identify this train. The mystery is that there is no train scheduled to
leave
Pune at that time ! Gang at Godrej Mumbai please look out from your
favourite
perch at Vikhroli at around 1800 Hours when this rake may pass you.

Apurva

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