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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: CATrain software!

Date: 28 Sep 1998 06:50:28 -0500


Sorry for the delayed response. I went through my archives and dished
out the web page for CATrain.

<A HREF="http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/">http://hotfiles.zdnet.com/cgi-bin/texis/</A>
swlib/hotfiles/info.html?fcode=000N12

Have fun!!

Vijay


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From: Sankaran Kumar <>

Subject: Kuppam

Date: 28 Sep 1998 11:01:35 -0500



Hello Apurva:


>This has been discussed before - I still require a correct reply for
this -
>what is special / political about Kuppam ?
>

Kuppam is a fair-sized town and could demand halts from regular
expresses on its own right. However, it is debatable if it deserves
halts by both Brindavan and Lalbagh. I suspect a political hand,
probably from some AP MP's. Frankly Brindavan also should not halt at
Bangarapet and Ambur, which are in Karnataka and TN respectively. In
the 70's Brindavan used to take 5 hours from Chennai to B'lore (and used

to be on time). Now it takes almost 6 hrs. This is supposed to be
progress! The Shatabdi takes 4hrs 45 mts, not much of an improvement
over the 70's Brindavan, at a much higher ticket price. Compare the
Shatabdi with the Japanese Shinkansen which I recently took. It covers
the 361 km between Tokyo and Sendai (a little more distance compared to
Chennai-B'lore) in 1 hr 45 mts !!!

>
>Why has CBE become so popular all of a sudden ? Is there a reason like
>conversion of MG to BG track or even emergence of a political person
perhaps
>?

Coimbatore is a wealthy city as Indian cities go because of the relative

profusion of industries (textiles, light engineering etc.). This is the

reason why it is able to support a Shatabdi. Also, it has started to
serve as the end point of the new trains introduced to compensate loss
of service on the Salem-Erode-Coimbatore stretch due to Konkan Rly. I
am waiting for the Palghat people to start demanding extension of these
trains (e.g Kurla-Coimbatore express).
>
>What does the SR time table (not available in Pune yet ) say about
Mysore -
>Arsikere and Hassan Mangalore section. Are they BG operational yet ? I

look
>forward to travel to Mangalore via the Sakleshpur - Subramanya Road
ghat on
>the BG.

The time table indicates that the Mysore-Hasan-Arsikere BG section is
open with two Mysore-Arsikere passengers running in addition to an
Arsikere-Sakleshpur passenger which runs on the Hasan-Mangalore section
upto Sakleshpur. Sakleshpur-Kankanadi is still under BG conversion.

Kumar

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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Southern Railway TT

Date: 28 Sep 1998 12:18:17 -0500


>The Howrah-Tiruchi Express (once it is introduced) will stop at
>Chennai Egmore, Mambalam, and Tambaram.

No other stops between Tambaram and Tiruchi? How about Villupuram and
Vriddhachalam?

Does the timetable show the extended Kurla-Coimbatore Exp.? What are
its halts between Bangalore City and Coimbatore?

>The Chennai-New Delhi GT Express has been speeded up by 45 minutes.

Both ways? When does it arrive at Mathura and at N.Delhi? I want to
make sure that the A.K. Raj overtake of the GT still remains.

>The Chennai-New Delhi TN Express has been speeded up by about 60
>minutes.

Both ways?


Vijay

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From: BSR SHARMA <>

Subject: Re: Kuppam

Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:05:06 -0500


In the context of this thread, I have a question:

Is there a set of criteria in IR to decide where and
how a train stops ( or is it mostly political
horse-trade)?

BSR Sharma
San Diego, Calif.

> Kuppam is a fair-sized town and could demand halts
from regular
> expresses on its own right. However, it is
debatable if it deserves
> halts by both Brindavan and Lalbagh. I suspect a
political hand,
> probably from some AP MP's. Frankly Brindavan also
should not halt at
> Bangarapet and Ambur, which are in Karnataka and TN
respectively. In
> the 70's Brindavan used to take 5 hours from
Chennai to B'lore (and used
> to be on time). Now it takes almost 6 hrs. This is
supposed to be
> progress! The Shatabdi takes 4hrs 45 mts, not much
of an improvement
> over the 70's Brindavan, at a much higher ticket
price. Compare the
> Shatabdi with the Japanese Shinkansen which I
recently took. It covers
> the 361 km between Tokyo and Sendai (a little more
distance compared to
> Chennai-B'lore) in 1 hr 45 mts !!!
>

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From: Vadi Elumalai <>

Subject: Re: Kuppam

Date: 28 Sep 1998 15:49:00 -0500




Atleast some stops are because of political compulsions. I have
travelled MAS-SBC sector umpteen times and based on the passenger
traffic
at Kuppam, I think Kuppam doesn't warrant a halt by Brindavan or other
superfasts.

-Vadi

>
> In the context of this thread, I have a question:
>
> Is there a set of criteria in IR to decide where and
> how a train stops ( or is it mostly political
> horse-trade)?
>
> BSR Sharma
> San Diego, Calif.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Longest Train

Date: 28 Sep 1998 22:22:37 -0500




VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> Yesterday night I was watching "Extreme Machines" on the Discovery
channel
> which featured TRAINS. It was very interesting. Towards the end the
> Eurostar was shown for which they said was the longest train in the
world
> today, with a length of 1/4 mile.
>
> I am sure some of our Indian Mail and Express trains must be much more
> longer than these Eurostar trainsets. Does anyone have any idea?
>
> Regards
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
> ==========================

Certainly I routinely see goods trains longer than that!

100 cars * 55ft = 5500 ft = 1 mile and a bit

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: IR trains are big

Date: 28 Sep 1998 22:29:19 -0500


Hi all -
Just got back from my first trip to England. Was really shocked, after
seeing
IR equipment, how small
british rail equipment is. I take it they have a much smaller loading
guage.
Anybody know why this historic difference?

Annie

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: IR trains are big: Anne

Date: 28 Sep 1998 23:14:33 -0500


> Just got back from my first trip to England. Was really shocked, after
seeing
> IR equipment, how small
> british rail equipment is. I take it they have a much smaller loading
guage.
> Anybody know why this historic difference?

They were the first with railways, which is
why, I think. When I K Brunel engineered the
Great Western Railway (with its 7 ft track gauge),
he refered to British standard gauge as the
"coal-wagon gauge". Of course, since structure
clearances had already been decided early in the
history, they were stuck with on most lines.
But they certainly made up for their own lack of
a substantial loading gauge when they built
railways in India.

Incidentally, what is the maximum loading
gauge on IR today ?

--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Hassan Mangalore route

Date: 29 Sep 1998 01:52:29 -0500


Gang !

The Hassan Mangalore MG (not yet BG ) road was the last MG track to be
completed in the country (around 1970s). The high point of this track is
the steep ghat between Sakleshpur - and Subramanya Road.
In my childhood [ I am 35 - so am I young or am I old ?? : - ) ] the MG
Mahalaxmi Express used to travel from Miraj to Bangalore, Once the BG
conversion started from SBC ( any idea why Bangalore is SBC - South
Bangalore City perhaps ?) end the MG Mahalaxmi was diverted to Mangalore
via Hubli - Arsikere - Hassan - Sakleshpur. The MG rake was unique in
the fact that the brake release lever (the lever marked with a star near
the bottom of the coach - used to manually release the vacuum brakes)
was moved to the roofline of the coaches. Guys at Miraj used to tell us
that there are viaducts in the Sakleshpur ghat which have no path for a
man to walk and hence the brake release lever were moved to the top of
the coach so the brakes could be released if the train were to stall on
a viaduct. I do not know the authenticity of this story but then I have
seen the brake release levers on the roofline although regrettably I
have not seen the ghat itself. The same gang at Miraj have also told me
that the MG Mahalaxmi used to run only at night so the ghat would pass
while the passengers were asleep - so as not to alarm them with the
dizzy heights and steep drops (Don't believe the story - IR does NOT
care for the passenger - period). One more story making rounds at Miraj
was that a train got stuck (derailed ?) in the ghats and could not be
moved from its spot for days ( other versions state weeks or even
months) as the track below the rake was on one of these deadly viaducts.

Waiting for the BG conversion to be finished and off I go by the most
interesting way to get to Mangalore.

This MG lines must be one of the follies of the IR which spent so much
money and efforts in making a line which eventually got converted to BG
within a very short time.

Other follies I can see are the Mumbai Pune Shatabdi Express with a 5000
HP WCAM 3 at the helm and eight coaches in the rear out of whom one is
an usually empty executive chair car and two generator cum brake vans
(with both the gensets running).

Apurva Bahadur

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Kuppam

Date: 29 Sep 1998 02:28:30 -0500




Vadi Elumalai wrote:

> Atleast some stops are because of political compulsions. I
have
> travelled MAS-SBC sector umpteen times

Is the Chennai Central still MAS or has it gone the Mumbai BBVT = CSTM /
BCT
= MCT way ?

Apurva

From: BSR SHARMA <>

Subject: Re: Hassan Mangalore route

Date: 29 Sep 1998 06:23:08 -0500


I think a lot of this folklore from Miraj is "old
wives tale". The Hassan-Bangalore line was
constructed as a MG track BUT to BG Specifications.
i.e. All bridges, tunnels etc., were built to
accommadate a BG line which
they planned on coming. The only reason for not going
BG first time around was to provide continuity to
Bangalore through Arsikere (Mangala Express route).

As for the " story" of running trains at night: SR
advertises this route as a Scenic tourist route (to
be enjoyed during day light).

B.S.R.Sharma
San Diego, Calif.


---Apurva Bahadur <iti@giaspn01.email wrote:
> Guys at Miraj used to tell us
> that there are viaducts in the Sakleshpur ghat
which have no path for a
> man to walk and hence the brake release lever were
moved to the top of
> the coach so the brakes could be released if the
train were to stall on
> a viaduct. I do not know the authenticity of this
story but then I have
> seen the brake release levers on the roofline
although regrettably I
> have not seen the ghat itself. The same gang at
Miraj have also told me
> that the MG Mahalaxmi used to run only at night so
the ghat would pass
> while the passengers were asleep - so as not to
alarm them with the
> dizzy heights and steep drops (Don't believe the
story - IR does NOT
> care for the passenger - period). One more story
making rounds at Miraj
> was that a train got stuck (derailed ?) in the
ghats and could not be
> moved from its spot for days ( other versions state
weeks or even
> months) as the track below the rake was on one of
these deadly viaducts.
>
> Waiting for the BG conversion to be finished and
off I go by the most
> interesting way to get to Mangalore.
>
> This MG lines must be one of the follies of the IR
which spent so much
> money and efforts in making a line which eventually
got converted to BG
> within a very short time.

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From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Ahmadabad Division

Date: 29 Sep 1998 09:06:34 -0500



INDIAN EXPRESS FRONT PAGE
Tuesday, September 29, 1998
Express Western Railway plans Ahmedabad division
[Image]
Latest News EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE
[Image] ----------------------------
EIW AHMEDABAD, Sept 28: The Western Railway (WR)
[Image] is considering setting up the Ahmedabad
division in the surplus land available with
Market the railways in Sabarmati provided road
Indicators connection is ensured from the area to the
[Image] highway. This was stated by V D Gupta,
Screen General Manager, Western Railway, while
[Image] discussing railway problems of Gujarat with
the Gujarat Chamber of Commerce and Industry
Celebrity Chat (GCCI) here on Saturday.
[Image]
Express A GCCI release stated that Chamber President
Computers Utkarsh B Shah assured Gupta of assisting the
[Image] railway in pursuing the matter with the State
Express Power government. Gupta agreed that the timings of
[Image] Rajdhani Express between Ahmedabad and Delhi
should be changed to enable people to
Letters complete the day's work at Delhi and return
[Image] in the evening. He said the matter is under
Advertisers serious consideration.
Forum
[Image] Gupta said to help import of coal and other
[Image] materials for industries of Gujarat and
Express Careers surrounding regions, the railway is ready to
[Image] invest in development of infrastructure
facilities at ports provided financial
Business Forum viability is establishedthrough long-term
[Image] commitment for traffic by the industries.
Match Maker
[Image] Regarding the proposed establishment of third
rail track between Ahmedabad and Mumbai to
Express cope up with rising traffic, Gupta clarified
Properties that the estimated expenditure of the project
[Image] is 1,600 crore rupees and it will be taken up
Palki - Travel on availability of funds.
& Tours
[Image] The GM also said the feasibility of
Information establishing coastal broad gauge link in
Technology Saurashtra connecting all ports can be
[Image] considered on the basis of financial
viability. To arrest increasing thefts from
Astrosurf First Class AC compartment of Gujarat Mail,
[Image] Gupta said FIR will now be registered in the
Eco-India train itself. Besides, the Railway Protection
[Image] Force will also be sounded in such matter, he
Dr Know added.
[Image]
He said the proposal for running a direct
Morning Digest train between Ahmedabad and Hardwar and
[Image] attaching few coaches in Delhi-bound trains
Express has been submitted to the Railway Board.
Greeting Similarly, the proposal for a direct train
[Image] from Howrah via Patna, Allahabad and Jabalpur
to Ahmedabad, Rajkot and Gandhidham has also
Graffiti been submitted tothe board for consideration,
[Image] he added.
Crossword
[Image] Gupta stated that provision of advance
Drumbeat: Ad reservation between Ahmedabad and Jaipur will
Buzzaar be considered by clubbing Jaipur and Ajmer.
He noted that for want of rail capacity, the
frequency of Ahmedabad-Pune train cannot be
increased.

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Generator car question

Date: 29 Sep 1998 10:59:04 -0500



Why do Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains have AC generator cars? As opposed to
letting each coach generate its own AC - as is the case for all other
trains? I assume there is some economy-of-scale cost saving
associated with centralizing the AC generation for 10 coaches. If
that is so, then where is the breakeven point - 2 coaches? 5? 10?
Does it make economic sense to add generator cars even on
non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains that have many AC coaches? Gujrath Mail,
Frontier Mail and Deccan Queen come to mind...

Cognoscenti, please enlighten!

-Pushkar
-------

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 29 Sep 1998 12:23:57 -0500



>Does it make economic sense to add generator cars even on
>non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains that have many AC coaches? Gujrath Mail,
>Frontier Mail and Deccan Queen come to mind...

The AC/Paschim Exps. and the AC Deluxe Exp. (now Poorva) used to have a
pair of generator cars serving their set of AC coaches. I believe they
had 5-6 AC coaches each.

Vijay


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Recovery times

Date: 29 Sep 1998 12:40:18 -0500


>Recovery times are usually heavy at inter-divisional hand-off points,
and
>heaviest at inter-railway hand-off points. Case in point: Mathura,
which is
>a WR/CR hand-off point. All WR trains heading to Mathura (except maybe

the
>Rajdhanis) from EITHER direction have approx. 30 mins of make-up time
built
>in. I am curious as to the reason - does the railway picking up the
train
>insist that the preceding one provide heavy make-up time? Can anyone
please
>enlighten? Similar things can be observed at Mughalsarai (NR/ER),
Wadi(CR/SCR), Vijaywada etc.

IMHO, the recovery times at the end of every division/railway is place
it favorably in the railway log books by ensuring that it will hand over

its trains to the succeeding division on time. Will the trains being on

time help in coordinating crew changes, as well?

Vijay

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From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: IR trains are big

Date: 29 Sep 1998 12:49:15 -0500


Hello,
To start with, British Rail runs on the Standard gauge of 4' 8.5", as
against IR's broad gauge of 5' 6". The wider gauge probably allows for
a larger loading gauge.

At any rate, I think the Brits decided to opt for a very large loading
gauge in India due to the absence of any unnecessary legislation and
Governmental interferance, a classic feature of the UK at that time.
Everything in India is on a heroic scale: the population,
the volume of freight, the distances, the loads. A large loading gauge
probably allowed for larger rolling stock, and hence economies of scale,
a crucial element when you want to provide cheap rail transportation to
the masses,and move large volumes of freight over long distances,which
in
most cases were several times those found in Britain.

Talking of the large loading gauge, a classic example springs to mind,
that of the famed Calthrop's Barsi Light Raiway (Kurduwadi-Latur/Miraj).
This British gentleman Mr. Calthrop wanted to prove that with only a
slight increase in the loading gauge, the 2' 6" ng in India could be
used to carry almost as much load as the mg.

This experiment has meant that the 2'6" ng vehicles in India are only
marginally smaller than mg vehicles.

This generous loading gauge on the 2' 6" ng in India means that Indian
ng rolling stock is among the largest in the world for that rail gauge.
The 700 ht ZDM class of diesels in India are also supposed to be the
most powerful ng diesels in the world.

I've not read anything to corraborate this statement which I read almost
a decade ago, but at the same time,I have nor read anything
contradicting
this either.

Perhaps some others out there migh shed more light.

Best regards.

Shankar



Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
> Hi all -
> Just got back from my first trip to England. Was really shocked, after
seeing
> IR equipment, how small
> british rail equipment is. I take it they have a much smaller loading
guage.
> Anybody know why this historic difference?
>
> Annie

From: ranand <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 29 Sep 1998 13:39:01 -0500


I think that they should do away with the generator car
concept altogether and use power from the loco wherever
possible as is done in Europe and US. I imagine that having axle driven
alternators especially for A/C coaches will impose a significant drag
on the Engine. This is a really inefficient way for the engine to
transmit
the power to the coaches!

While I understand that the WDM2 is not equipped for head-end power,
there is no reason why the various electrics could not provide the
appropriate power to the rake. I wonder what voltage the compressor
and blower for the A/C in Indian coaches run on. It seems that it
would be easy to provide this power from the head-end.

An amusing note: Its not just fast trains with A/C coaches
that have generator cars. My brother and I would go to Tilak bridge
in Delhi station every evening to railfan in the late 70s and early 80s.
One
of our favorite trains was the Palwal shuttle. This little commuter
train (pulled by WGs or WD4s in those days) had a small generator car
in the middle (an non-integral coach) to provide power for lights and
fans.

Incidentally, the last coach in this train was the bhajan coach. You
could hear loud and raucous singing of bhajans accompanied by
harmonium and Tabala! Imagine going on a plane and being asked whether
you wish to sit in the bhajan or non-bhajan section :-)

Anand

Internet: anand@watson.email
External tel: (914) 784 7054
Notes: Rangachari Anand/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
Tie-line: 863 7054

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Recovery times

Date: 29 Sep 1998 13:50:39 -0500




Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:

> >Recovery times are usually heavy at inter-divisional hand-off points,
> and
> >heaviest at inter-railway hand-off points. Case in point: Mathura,
> which is
> >a WR/CR hand-off point. All WR trains heading to Mathura (except
maybe
> the
> >Rajdhanis) from EITHER direction have approx. 30 mins of make-up time
> built
> >in. I am curious as to the reason - does the railway picking up the
> train
> >insist that the preceding one provide heavy make-up time? Can anyone
> please
> >enlighten? Similar things can be observed at Mughalsarai (NR/ER),
> Wadi(CR/SCR), Vijaywada etc.
>
> IMHO, the recovery times at the end of every division/railway is place
> it favorably in the railway log books by ensuring that it will hand
over
> its trains to the succeeding division on time. Will the trains being
on
> time help in coordinating crew changes, as well?
>
> Vijay
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

It also helps the dispatchers. When one train gets behind, it messes
things
up
for each train behind it. So it helps to have a large recovery time at
the
division point.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 29 Sep 1998 13:55:47 -0500




ranand@us.email wrote:

> I think that they should do away with the generator car
> concept altogether and use power from the loco wherever
> possible as is done in Europe and US. I imagine that having axle
driven
> alternators especially for A/C coaches will impose a significant drag
> on the Engine. This is a really inefficient way for the engine to
transmit
> the power to the coaches!
>

They've outlawed axle generators even on private cars in the US.

>
> Incidentally, the last coach in this train was the bhajan coach. You
> could hear loud and raucous singing of bhajans accompanied by
> harmonium and Tabala! Imagine going on a plane and being asked whether
> you wish to sit in the bhajan or non-bhajan section :-)
>
> Anand
>

I just returned from England.
On the way out, they held our plane for over an hour while they repaired
the
VCR in
the 1st class. People in economy were joking that they'd be happy to go
forward and
perform if they'd get on with the voyage!

Annie, who definitely wants the bhajan section

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 29 Sep 1998 14:00:21 -0500


All right, I'll bite. Anand and Anne: what is an axle-driven generator?
What
are other types of generators (as in generator cars, for example). Also
what
is head-end power? Maybe one of you can give a quick primer on the
types of
generators and power mechanisms. Thanks!

-Pushkar

Anne Ogborn wrote:

> Pushkar Apte wrote:
>
> > Why do Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains have AC generator cars? As opposed
to
> > letting each coach generate its own AC - as is the case for all
other
> > trains? I assume there is some economy-of-scale cost saving
> > associated with centralizing the AC generation for 10 coaches. If
> > that is so, then where is the breakeven point - 2 coaches? 5? 10?
> > Does it make economic sense to add generator cars even on
> > non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains that have many AC coaches? Gujrath
Mail,
> > Frontier Mail and Deccan Queen come to mind...
> >
> > Cognoscenti, please enlighten!
> >
> > -Pushkar
> > -------
>
> Is it because on faster trains, the inefficiency of axle-driven
generators
> goes up?



--

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

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