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From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Re: IR trains are big

Date: 29 Sep 1998 14:34:37 -0500


Hi


Everard Calthrop was very proud of the fact that "his" Barsi wagons
could handle a load that required 2 broad guage wagons. On the first
few days of opening IIRC (I wasn't there!) Barsi transported a complete
factory on the 2-6 gauge. One item was a steam boiler which had
travelled to the broad/narrow interchange on 2 broad gauge wagons.
It was carried on one of Calthrops standard bogie wagons.

Calthrops Barsi was a turning point in ng line construction in India
....things were never the same again.

Watch out for the book...when I get it finished!! sometime next year
I hope....

Regards

Iain

From: BSR SHARMA <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 29 Sep 1998 14:57:12 -0500


I think the term axle-driven refers to a DC dynamo
powered by car's axle (thro' a belt). Most of the cars
(on non electrified track) seem to have 24 volt fans
and lights. Surely, the need for Air-conditioning power
must be at a higher voltage. I have seen Madras
suburban trains have 220 Volt ("domestic" type) light
bulbs.

Also, the DC traction motors of Diesel Electrics use
600 Volts. I think, historically, all these voltages
(and frequencies) make it difficult to have a uniform
power supply "bus" system. Also, lower voltages are
safer for passengers etc., If power generation is not
distributed using axle-generators, a brake in the power
"bus" can render the whole train dark.

BSR Sharma

---Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email wrote:
>
> All right, I'll bite. Anand and Anne: what is an
axle-driven generator? What
> are other types of generators (as in generator
cars, for example). Also what
> is head-end power? Maybe one of you can give a
quick primer on the types of
> generators and power mechanisms. Thanks!
>
> -Pushkar
>
> Anne Ogborn wrote:
>
> > Pushkar Apte wrote:
> >
> > > Why do Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains have AC
generator cars? As opposed to
> > > letting each coach generate its own AC - as is
the case for all other
> > > trains? I assume there is some
economy-of-scale cost saving
> > > associated with centralizing the AC generation
for 10 coaches. If
> > > that is so, then where is the breakeven point -
2 coaches? 5? 10?
> > > Does it make economic sense to add generator
cars even on
> > > non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains that have many AC
coaches? Gujrath Mail,
> > > Frontier Mail and Deccan Queen come to mind...
> > >
> > > Cognoscenti, please enlighten!
> > >
> > > -Pushkar
> > > -------
> >
> > Is it because on faster trains, the inefficiency
of axle-driven generators
> > goes up?
>
>
>
> --
>
> Regards,
> Pushkar
> -------
>
>
>

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From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 29 Sep 1998 15:48:58 -0500


Pushkar,

The other two types of generators that I know are:

HEP (Head End Power) where auxilliary generator in the loco,
driven either by the main power plant or by the separate power
plant, provides power. EMD's new loco has HEP driven by separate
plant and it delivers 600 KW.

MG (Motor Generator) found mainly in EMUs and electric locos.
The motor runs on 1.5 KV or 750 KV DC and the generator generates
110 V AC.

Steam locos had their own turbine generated power but I do not
have any particulars about them.

Prakash

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 29 Sep 1998 19:15:41 -0500



>
> Incidentally, the last coach in this train was the bhajan coach. You
> could hear loud and raucous singing of bhajans accompanied by
> harmonium and Tabala! Imagine going on a plane and being asked whether
> you wish to sit in the bhajan or non-bhajan section :-)

We have these Bhajan Coaches in our Bombay Suburban trains. I for one
avoid these coaches like plague. Its a cacophony and when you step out
of
such coaches you are almost deaf. Instead of harmonium and tabla, we
have
in Bombay Cymbals and for tabla the Bhajan mandli use the side panels
- banging on them. Believe me whilst commuting during peak hours
these mandlis are a nuisance.

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: IR trains are big

Date: 29 Sep 1998 21:30:49 -0500


Hi Annie and everyone,
The London-Bristol line, and its offshoots (Brunel's original 7ft
broad
gauge system) still has a larger loading gauge than the rest of the BR
system -- though not by much. You can see the difference if you go to
the
Continent via the Channel Tunnel -- the little ferret trains that go
through
the tunnel are quite tiny beside French or German stock.
IR's loading gauge for BG is not big as it could be. General view
nowadays is that the width can be up to three times the track gauge, and
height can also be greater. For 5ft 6in gauge, this could come out to
16ft
6ins (just over 5 metres!). The Russian railways actually have a
vertical
loading gauge clearance of 17ft.
There were plans to greatly enlarge the IR BG loading gauge in the
early 1920s. Essentially, the present loading gauge corresponds to the
Maximum Moving Dimensions of 1922 (ng) 1929 (bg) and 1930 (mg), with
some
later amendments for wider coaching stock and AC electric traction
(which
needs larger clearances around the wires &c.) There were plans for
super-power steam locomotives and for greatly enlarged Moving
Dimensions.
The only outcomes were that the "X" series of locos designed in the
mid-1920s all had a very large gauge envelope, just larger than the 1922
MMDs, and some main lines were equipped with bridges and other
structures
designed for 22½ ton axle loads.
After 1945, there was intensive consideration of enlarged
dimensions,
and some prototype BG coaches were built to an 11ft 8in width. I believe
it
was cost factors that led to a decision to go to the current 10ft 8in
width
(from 10ft). MG coaching went from 8ft to 9ft at the same time.
The Barsi Light's 7ft 6in width on 2ft 6in gauge was exactly on
the
3:1 ratio; interestingly, the 2ft gauge lies exceed it with 7fy wide
stock
on 2ft gauge. There is a recent reprint of Calthrop's explanation of
the
engineering principles underlying the BLR from Plateway Press. Worth
reading: the man was a genius.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
To: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, 30 September 1998 6:27
Subject: Re: IR trains are big


>Hello,
>To start with, British Rail runs on the Standard gauge of 4' 8.5", as
> against IR's broad gauge of 5' 6". The wider gauge probably allows for
>a larger loading gauge.
>
>At any rate, I think the Brits decided to opt for a very large loading
>gauge in India due to the absence of any unnecessary legislation and
>Governmental interferance, a classic feature of the UK at that time.
> Everything in India is on a heroic scale: the population,
>the volume of freight, the distances, the loads. A large loading gauge
>probably allowed for larger rolling stock, and hence economies of
scale,
>a crucial element when you want to provide cheap rail transportation to
>the masses,and move large volumes of freight over long distances,which
>in
>most cases were several times those found in Britain.
>
>Talking of the large loading gauge, a classic example springs to mind,
>that of the famed Calthrop's Barsi Light Raiway
(Kurduwadi-Latur/Miraj).
>This British gentleman Mr. Calthrop wanted to prove that with only a
>slight increase in the loading gauge, the 2' 6" ng in India could be
>used to carry almost as much load as the mg.
>
>This experiment has meant that the 2'6" ng vehicles in India are only
>marginally smaller than mg vehicles.
>
>This generous loading gauge on the 2' 6" ng in India means that Indian
>ng rolling stock is among the largest in the world for that rail gauge.
>The 700 ht ZDM class of diesels in India are also supposed to be the
>most powerful ng diesels in the world.
>
>I've not read anything to corraborate this statement which I read
almost
>a decade ago, but at the same time,I have nor read anything
>contradicting
> this either.
>
>Perhaps some others out there migh shed more light.
>
>Best regards.
>
>Shankar
>
>
>
>Anne Ogborn wrote:
>>
>> Hi all -
>> Just got back from my first trip to England. Was really shocked,
after
seeing
>> IR equipment, how small
>> british rail equipment is. I take it they have a much smaller
loading
guage.
>> Anybody know why this historic difference?
>>
>> Annie
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 30 Sep 1998 03:07:33 -0500


> While I understand that the WDM2 is not equipped for head-end power,
> there is no reason why the various electrics could not provide the
> appropriate power to the rake. I wonder what voltage the compressor
> and blower for the A/C in Indian coaches run on. It seems that it
> would be easy to provide this power from the head-end.
>

The WDM 2s meant for export to Sri Lanka have the hotel load / Head on
Generator tap in their alternators.

Apurva

>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 30 Sep 1998 03:11:56 -0500




>
>
> They've outlawed axle generators even on private cars in the US.

Why are the axle generators outlawed ? How much drag do they really add
to coach
?

I suspect the reason for not having a HOG (head on generator / Hotel
load tap on
the loco is to standardise the loco for any use - the lowest common
denominator. After all a WDM 2 with a hotel load tap hauling the B 10
coal
special is really a waste.

Apurva

>
>
> >
> > Incidentally, the last coach in this train was the bhajan coach. You
> > could hear loud and raucous singing of bhajans accompanied by
> > harmonium and Tabala! Imagine going on a plane and being asked
whether
> > you wish to sit in the bhajan or non-bhajan section :-)
> >
> > Anand
> >
>
> I just returned from England.
> On the way out, they held our plane for over an hour while they
repaired the
> VCR in
> the 1st class. People in economy were joking that they'd be happy to
go
> forward and
> perform if they'd get on with the voyage!
>
> Annie, who definitely wants the bhajan section

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Kuppam

Date: 30 Sep 1998 03:30:28 -0500




poras p.saklatwalla wrote:

> IT IS STILL MAS AND NOT MCT AND ANNOUNCERS STILL ANNOUNCE THE
> 1063DN/6011DN AND 6009DN AS DADAR MADRAS CHENNAI EXP, MADRAS EXP AND
> MADRAS MAIL. ANY IDEA WHEN THIS ROUTE WILL BE HAVING 2 TRACKS AND
WILL BE
> COMPLETELY ELECTRIFIED. I AM REALLY BUGGED WITH THE WAY THIS TRUNK
ROUTE
> IS HANDLED AND THE TRAINS (NOT 1063DN) BUT THE OTHER TWO RUN BY SR
THEY
> ARE TOTALLY FILTHY AND WE DARE NOT TRAVEL BY SLEEPER CLASS IF WE ARE
TO
> FORCEFULLY TRAVEL BY THIS TRAIN. YOUR VIEWS AND SUGGESTIONS WELCOME.
>
> PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
> TEL :5773535/3636
> EXT :4226/4232/4237

From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 30 Sep 1998 07:07:27 -0500



Believing in the Chinese proverb "only he is a fool who does not ask"
- I continue to probe...

> I think the term axle-driven refers to a DC dynamo
> powered by car's axle (thro' a belt). Most of the cars
> (on non electrified track) seem to have 24 volt fans
> and lights. Surely, the need for Air-conditioning power

So does this mean that the mechanical motion of the wheels is being
converted to electricity by the axle-generator? There is no fuel used
for generation? What kind of efficiencies does one normally observe?
And in general do lights and fans in all coaches operate on this
"axle-generator" on IR? And does that include the isolated AC coaches
on non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains?

I have often had the experience in Mumbai Central and Vadodara that
"light nahi hai kyon ki engine nahi laga hai". Maybe electrified
mainline sections do use the "head-on" generation mode that Anand
mentioned?

> must be at a higher voltage. I have seen Madras
> suburban trains have 220 Volt ("domestic" type) light
> bulbs.

In Mumbai suburban trains there are I believe 3 coaches in the typical
9 coach rake that have some sort of "generator". I don't know the
operating voltage. If one is unlucky or desperate enough to sit on a
seat on top of this generator, one has the unpleasant experience of
the motors kicking on and off, blasting eardrums and vibrating you to
kingdom come! And if the generator car is also a bhajan car... :-)

> Also, the DC traction motors of Diesel Electrics use
> 600 Volts. I think, historically, all these voltages
> (and frequencies) make it difficult to have a uniform
> power supply "bus" system. Also, lower voltages are
> safer for passengers etc., If power generation is not
> distributed using axle-generators, a brake in the power
> "bus" can render the whole train dark.

One can see the difficulties in making these varied signals work, but
I am sure it is worth checking to see if better
efficiencies/cost-saving are possible from the current systems, which
seem to be disorganized.

> BSR Sharma

-Pushkar

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Kuppam

Date: 30 Sep 1998 08:05:10 -0500


poras p.saklatwalla wrote:

> IT IS STILL MAS AND NOT MCT AND ANNOUNCERS STILL ANNOUNCE THE
> 1063DN/6011DN AND 6009DN AS DADAR MADRAS CHENNAI EXP, MADRAS EXP AND
> MADRAS MAIL.

What I meant was whether Chennai Central is still MAS or has it also
changed
the name like Bombay VT (BBVT) renamed to Shri. Chatrapati Shivaji
Maharaj
Terminus, Mumbai (CSTM) and Bombay Central (BCT) remamed to Mumbai
Central (MCT).

> ANY IDEA WHEN THIS ROUTE WILL BE HAVING 2 TRACKS AND WILL BE
> COMPLETELY ELECTRIFIED.

I am told that catenary is already in place from Renigunta to Cuduppah.
Eventually the wires will come to Guntakal. From Guntakal the Hospet -
Gadag -
Hubli line will be electrified first. As a first step to the eventual
electrification of this route the Gooty shed with their distinctive
Orange and
Blue WDM2 are being transferred to the new Guntakal BG diesel shed with
their
sharp blue livery. Once all the diesels have been tranferred to
Guntakal the
Gooty shed is slated to home electric locos.

I AM REALLY BUGGED WITH THE WAY THIS TRUNK ROUTE

All of us are irritated at playing the host to the only non electrified
-
single line at that - trunk between two metros.

> IS HANDLED AND THE TRAINS (NOT 1063DN) BUT THE OTHER TWO RUN BY SR
THEY

1063 is a CR rake homing in Mumbai while 6009 and 6011 home at Chennai.
This
seem to be a unique number scheme - subsequent series of trains going /
coming
from the same detination. See ? 6009/10/11/12 all are Chennai - Mumbai -
Chennai trains.

> ARE TOTALLY FILTHY AND WE DARE NOT TRAVEL BY SLEEPER CLASS IF WE ARE
TO
> FORCEFULLY TRAVEL BY THIS TRAIN. YOUR VIEWS AND SUGGESTIONS WELCOME.
>
> PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
> TEL :5773535/3636
> EXT :4226/4232/4237

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 30 Sep 1998 08:17:35 -0500


>Hi All!
>Watching the thread on generator cars and the debate on wether they are
>needed at all....well did any of u know that not so long go the WR
>Rajdhani used to have a total of 3 generator cars in its composition??

Since the middle generator car had a vestibule at only one end, this
would destroy the continuity of the vestibule system. So the rake was
nothing but a join of two vestibuled sub-rakes each with its own pantry
car.


>After many tests in the mid-late eighties it was decided to run it with
>only 2, one at each end!!! The third one used eo be ni the middle of

After the deployment of more powerful generator cars (manufactured by
ICF, Perambur or RCF, Kapurthala?), it was decided that two would
suffice.

>train!!! I am not sure if it was also the case for the ER Rajdhani!

I believe this Rajdhani had a similar composition.


Vijay

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From: PROTIP.DASGUPTA <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question

Date: 30 Sep 1998 08:31:37 -0500


Hi All!
Watching the thread on generator cars and the debate on wether they are
needed at all....well did any of u know that not so long go the WR
Rajdhani used to have a total of 3 generator cars in its composition??
After many tests in the mid-late eighties it was decided to run it with
only 2, one at each end!!! The third one used eo be ni the middle of the
train!!! I am not sure if it was also the case for the ER Rajdhani!
Also talking of that Palwal shuttle.....lots of trains on MG running IRS
stock ciaches especially on lesser branch lines have something called an
MOG or and EOG car situated inbetween or a either end
respectively.....MOG
for Mid On Generator Car and EOG for End ON!! Again these were used to
power dynamo less coaches!
Regards Bharat Vohra

From: John Hinson <>

Subject: Re: Longest Train

Date: 30 Sep 1998 08:45:16 -0500


VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
> Yesterday night I was watching "Extreme Machines" on the Discovery
channel
> which featured TRAINS. It was very interesting. Towards the end the
> Eurostar was shown for which they said was the longest train in the
world
> today, with a length of 1/4 mile.
>
> I am sure some of our Indian Mail and Express trains must be much more
> longer than these Eurostar trainsets. Does anyone have any idea?

That programme was talking rubbish! Freight trains in the UK (like
India)
can be many times the length of a Eurostar, especially those that pass
through the tunnel to the continent.

I wonder if the programme was trying to suggest that Eurostars are the
longest /passenger/ trains?

John H

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 30 Sep 1998 08:45:53 -0500


The older coaches are 48 VDC and the all new coaches are 110 VDC. All
AC
coaches whether old or new are 110 VDC only.

>

The power car for Raj / Shatabadi contains a Cummins NTA 855 (400 or
500
Hp) engine with a three phase alternator whose details are easy for me
to
get - I am a vendor to Cummins India. The output of the alternator is
not
the standard 415 Volts 3 phase - it is higher ( I will get the details -
the Cummins project is generically known as 'Rajdhani power car' and
consists of the genset, brake van (not sure), a genset crew's rest area
and a guard's cubicle. Even the guard's cubicle is airconditioned ! The
higher alternator's output is balanced against the loads in the coaches.
When the rake is non self generating (that is gfed from a genset), the
tube light and fans are AC. I remember reading a FAQ listed in the
Harris
Mountaintop site about train lighting (more to do with Amtrak and other
pampered railways - I know lots will react strongly to this :-) But as
compared to the IR, Amtrak IS pampered ). The FAQ mentiones 'remote
sensing' wires in the huge electrical coupler between coaches which
measure the voltage at the load (coach end) to overcome the drops of the
wires. There are also authentic FAQs about air brakes and American
railway
lingo at that site as well.
I will also look up studies about why the 'Rajdhani Power Car' is a more
efficient proposal than individual belt driven axle generators.
One more trivia - The Diesel Electric Multiple Unit train has a belt
driven Kerela Electric DC dynamo for lighting and fans. The tubelights
are
run off the battery while the fans run off the generator - Thus often
the
engine is kept at idling while junta works in the hot engine room to
provide some relief from the Chennai (or where ever) heat and humidity.
This is a genuine case of ' Engine nahi lagaya isliye light nahin hain'.
Intrestingly the electronic govenor for the traction alternator got
affected by the tube light ballast noise and the fan brush sparking. The
American designers of this very sophiticated and expensive controller
never thought of this unique source of electric 'noise'. It took them
one
year to figure out the source which caused engine hunting and uneven
notching.
When the coach is standing without lights and fan and the excuse is
given
that there is no loco attached - the knowlegeble amongst us walk upto
the
end of the coach and locate the correct circuit breakers and presto -
there are light and fans - one tends to be become quite a hero in the
eyes
of the other passengers. I wonder where this folklore came from - no
loco
- no light - It is found all over the country - even my parents believed
in it until I showed them otherwise. Did the British / American rail
equipment we had in the past have hotel load taps ? Steam locos ?
One more experiance on the same subject - Once the Maharashtra express
Shyama and I were travelling on had a very weak battery - when the
trains
stopped the lights and fans stopped working - I had to locate the
correct
circuit breakers and isolate the fan breakers so that the lights would
glow somewhat. Other passengers had to help me locate the breakers by
burning numerous matches.

> > must be at a higher voltage. I have seen Madras
> > suburban trains have 220 Volt ("domestic" type) light
> > bulbs

They are 110 V bulbs and tubes

> .
>
> In Mumbai suburban trains there are I believe 3 coaches in the typical
> 9 coach rake that have some sort of "generator". I don't know the
> operating voltage. If one is unlucky or desperate enough to sit on a
> seat on top of this generator, one has the unpleasant experience of
> the motors kicking on and off, blasting eardrums and vibrating you to
> kingdom come! And if the generator car is also a bhajan car... :-)

That is the air compressor and not the Motor Generator. Notice that the
machine keeps going on and off while the lights are on all the time -
Our
luck is such that we Puneites always get to travel in this coach - it is
emptier on account of the noise and vibration. The MG set is elsewhere -
I
will confirm the location once I find out from the Pune shed.

Apurva

From: John Hinson <>

Subject: Re: IR trains are big

Date: 30 Sep 1998 08:49:56 -0500


You are quite right to notice this Annie, and many a headache it has
caused
since - not least with the recent introduction of through running from
the
continent. I think it is just historical, some UK railways are very old
indeed.

The last main line built to London (the Great Central) was built to
Continental loading gauge, as the builders even then dreamt of a tunnel
to
the continent. But the last to come was the first to close, and the line
is
now mostly closed!

John Hinson

At 06:29 29.9.98 , you wrote:
>Hi all -
>Just got back from my first trip to England. Was really shocked, after
seeing
>IR equipment, how small
>british rail equipment is. I take it they have a much smaller loading
guage.
>Anybody know why this historic difference?
>
>Annie
>

From: BSR SHARMA <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 30 Sep 1998 09:15:49 -0500


---Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email wrote:
> So does this mean that the mechanical motion of the
> wheels is being converted to electricity by the >
axle-generator?

Yes.

>There is no fuel used for generation? What kind of
> efficiencies does one normally observe?

Well, the locomotive is the ultimate prime-mover and
hence needs some fuel! Belt driven DC dynamos are not
as efficient as (AC) alternators (Plus Semiconductor
type rectifiers for battery charging). The carbon
brushes for commutation wear out frequently, causing
sparking/arcing, heat loss etc. In rare instances, a
malfunction causes the (lead-acid accumulator)
battery to power the dynamo in reverse and turn it
into a motor! (wearing out the belt etc.)

> And in general do lights and fans in all coaches
> operate on this "axle-generator" on IR?

Yes, It is the primary mode of power for passenger
"amenities".

B.S.R. Sharma
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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 30 Sep 1998 09:37:31 -0500



>When the coach is standing without lights and fan and the excuse is
given
>that there is no loco attached - the knowlegeble amongst us walk upto
the
>end of the coach and locate the correct circuit breakers and presto -
>there are light and fans - one tends to be become quite a hero in the
eyes
>of the other passengers. I wonder where this folklore came from - no
loco
>- no light - It is found all over the country - even my parents
believed
>in it until I showed them otherwise.

Repeating Pushkar's question, does this mean that a stationary coach
uses the batteries underneath to supply power to the fans and lights,
and a coach in motion gets it from an alternator attached to the
axle-driven dynamo? I am, of course, talking about a self-generating
coach. Also, are the batteries being constantly recharged while the
coach is in motion? Please explain.

BTW, the AC 3-tier coaches (on Rajdhani and others) use roof-mounted AC
units which are supposed to be lighter than what is used on other AC
coaches. How do these AC units operate?

Vijay

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From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 30 Sep 1998 09:58:29 -0500


Hello friends,

While the generator car debate goes on, here is another similar concept,
peculiar to the UK as far as I know.

This is a power car for train heating,called the ETHEL or something.
The 'Ugly Ethel" as it is sometimes called is sometimes a condemned
diesel locomotive.

I remember having read in The Railway Magazine (a UK publication) of
the Ethel drawing much flak on a particular steam excursion a couple of
years ago.

Enthusiasts and photographers alike spewed venom over the ugly contrap-
tion saying that while it was ugly enough to have a condemned diesel
unit (Ethel) coupled directly behind the beautiful steamer, the
continuous hum from the unit also proved an impediment to enjoying the
invigorating and pure chuff chuff from the steam engine.

Maybe our friends from the UK might throw more light.

Best regards.

Shankar




Prakash Tendulkar wrote:
>
> Pushkar,
>
> The other two types of generators that I know are:
>
> HEP (Head End Power) where auxilliary generator in the loco,
> driven either by the main power plant or by the separate power
> plant, provides power. EMD's new loco has HEP driven by separate
> plant and it delivers 600 KW.
>
> MG (Motor Generator) found mainly in EMUs and electric locos.
> The motor runs on 1.5 KV or 750 KV DC and the generator generates
> 110 V AC.
>
> Steam locos had their own turbine generated power but I do not
> have any particulars about them.
>
> Prakash

From: ranand <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question and memories of the old TN express

Date: 30 Sep 1998 10:08:07 -0500


Thanks to Apurva and others everyone for these informative postings.
Back
in the early eighties, I travelled many times by AC 2-Tier on the GT
and
TN
express in the old days and the A/C control closet at the end of the
coach
had a center
zero ammeter which showed whether the battery was charging or
discharging.
At rest the ammeter would show the batteries discharging and as the
train
started and picked up speed, it would start charging. My idea was to see
if
the ammeter could be used a simple speedometer so we could determine
how fast the train was running without looking for the white rounded
stone
KM markers. Unfortunately, the ammeter would reach a limit and then
stop
so it was
useless as a speedometer beyond a certain speed!

When it was first introduced in 1976, the TN express was completely in
the
red/white
livery and was a short rake with generator cars. It had two A/C chair
cars, one
A/C 2 tier and 1 A/C first class coach. In addition, there were ordinary
first class
and second class 3 tier coaches. The A/C chair cars even had a pair
of TVs on which they showed movies. Unlike on airplanes however, the
sound came over
the speakers so everyone had to watch the movie whether they wanted to
or
not. Another great feature was the onboard library in one of the
ordinary
second
sleeper coaches. You could borrow books and magazines from it.

It then became the first double headed train a few years later and
continued the
red/white livery and with generator cars. There was even a writeup about
the
double heading in the Anantha Vikatan magazine. Then the rot set in by
the
mid 80s
and it became a mixed color rake without generator car. I believe that
the
rakes are
now shared by the TN and GT.

Anand
Internet: anand@watson.email
External tel: (914) 784 7054
Notes: Rangachari Anand/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
Tie-line: 863 7054

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Generator car question: More questions!

Date: 30 Sep 1998 10:20:46 -0500





>Repeating Pushkar's question, does this mean that a stationary coach
>uses the batteries underneath to supply power to the fans and lights,
>and a coach in motion gets it from an alternator attached to the
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
should read as 'or'
I noticed a glaring error in my previous message.

Vijay

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