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From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Fastest non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi run

Date: 23 Sep 1998 06:48:45 -0500


I was wondering about the fastest non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi runs on IR.

I could think of the following 3:

1. Poorva Exp - Mughalsarai-Allahabad -> ~98 kmph
2. (Many trains) - Vadodara-Bharuch -> 87.5 kmph
3. Jammu Tawi Exp - Mathura-Sawai Madhopur -> 87 kmph

Any others?

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Fastest non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi run

Date: 23 Sep 1998 08:24:44 -0500



>I was wondering about the fastest non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi runs on IR.
>
>I could think of the following 3:
>
>1. Poorva Exp - Mughalsarai-Allahabad -> ~98 kmph

Shouldn't this be more like 80 kmph? 153 kms. in 1 hr. 55 mts.

>2. (Many trains) - Vadodara-Bharuch -> 87.5 kmph
>3. Jammu Tawi Exp - Mathura-Sawai Madhopur -> 87 kmph
>
>Any others?

Many of the sections in the Delhi-Mumbai/Howrah trunk routes have 80+
speeds. Examples:

- Jammu Tawi Exp. - Nagda-Kota -> 86 kmph.
- Jammu Tawi Exp. - Kota-Sawai Madhopur -> 82 kmph.
- Poorva Exp. - Tundla-Etawah -> 92 kmph.
- Poorva Exp. - Durgapur-Asansol - > 82 kmph.

Many sections in the Delhi-Bhopal section approach 80 kmph. One of them

goes beyond:

- GT Exp. - Gwalior-Agra Cantt -> 82 kmph.

Of course, recovery/engineering times screw up certain sections and
favor others depending on where they are alloted. So a true picture
emerges only when one looks at the Working TTs and considers the actual
running times. For example, none of the above mentioned sections
contain any appreciable recovery times for those trains. On the other
hand, the Gitanjali Exp. has a running time less than 3 hrs. 45 mts.
from Igatpuri to Bhusaval (>82 kmph.) but because of the
engineering time alloted between Bhadli and Bhusaval it seems to take 4
hrs. and the speed drops down to 77 kmph. That's just a snapshot of the

sad state of affairs in IR - commercial speeds being adversely affected

by an overdose of engineering/recovery times.

Vijay

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From: Pushkar Apte <>

Subject: Re: Fastest non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi run

Date: 23 Sep 1998 09:51:01 -0500


> >1. Poorva Exp - Mughalsarai-Allahabad -> ~98 kmph
>
> Shouldn't this be more like 80 kmph? 153 kms. in 1 hr. 55 mts.

You are right, my mistake.

> - Jammu Tawi Exp. - Nagda-Kota -> 86 kmph.
> - Jammu Tawi Exp. - Kota-Sawai Madhopur -> 82 kmph.
> - Poorva Exp. - Tundla-Etawah -> 92 kmph.
> - Poorva Exp. - Durgapur-Asansol - > 82 kmph.
> - GT Exp. - Gwalior-Agra Cantt -> 82 kmph.
>
> Of course, recovery/engineering times screw up certain sections and
> favor others depending on where they are alloted. So a true picture
> emerges only when one looks at the Working TTs and considers the
actual
> running times. For example, none of the above mentioned sections
> contain any appreciable recovery times for those trains. On the other
> hand, the Gitanjali Exp. has a running time less than 3 hrs. 45 mts.
> from Igatpuri to Bhusaval (>82 kmph.) but because of the
> engineering time alloted between Bhadli and Bhusaval it seems to take
4
> hrs. and the speed drops down to 77 kmph. That's just a snapshot of
the
> sad state of affairs in IR - commercial speeds being adversely
affected
> by an overdose of engineering/recovery times.

Recovery times are usually heavy at inter-divisional hand-off points,
and
heaviest at inter-railway hand-off points. Case in point: Mathura,
which is
a WR/CR hand-off point. All WR trains heading to Mathura (except maybe
the
Rajdhanis) from EITHER direction have approx. 30 mins of make-up time
built
in. I am curious as to the reason - does the railway picking up the
train
insist that the preceding one provide heavy make-up time? Can anyone
please
enlighten? Similar things can be observed at Mughalsarai (NR/ER),
Wadi(CR/SCR), Vijaywada etc.

The other reason for recovery time is the perennial ongoing repairs and
corresponding speed restrictions. The last time I hitched a
foot-plating
ride on CR, the driver had a list of so many speed restrictions that it
was
theoretically impossible for him to meet the run-time, inspite of
liberal
make-up provision.

-Pushkar
-------

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: How to obtain Mr Daboo's book in the US

Date: 23 Sep 1998 17:26:37 -0500


I can help here as I live in the US and have a UK bank account.

Anyone who wants a copy of this book can send a check for $17.50 payable
to
me and I will send you back a check for stg 9.80 payable to BOHRT. You
can
then mail my check to BOHRT along with your order.

Send your check to me at: 353 E 72 St, #33D, New York, NY 10021-4622.

Incidentally, I received my copy of the book today and it is excellent.
Strongly recommended.

Peter Mosse

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Indian Locomotives Books (Steam) by Hugh Hughes

Date: 23 Sep 1998 17:38:32 -0500


Most people on this list are aware of this series which provides
comprehensive information (and illustrations) about all Indian Steam
Locomotives.

I have just received an updated catalogue from Midland Counties
Publications in England and all four books in the series are still
available. Anybody who is interested in Indian Steam and doesn't have
these books should buy a set before they sell out !!

The four books in the series and their prices are:

Part 1: Broad Gauge 1851-1940 stg 7.95 R46985
Part 2: Metre Gauge 1872-1940 stg 9.00 R46993
Part 3: Narrow Gauge 1863-1940 stg 9.90 R65503
Part 4: 1941-1990 (all gauges) stg 10.50 R65511

The R numbers are Midland Counties' stock numbers.

You can order by mail from Midland Counties Publications, Unit 3,
Maizefield, Hinckley Fields, Hinckley, Leics LE10 1YF, England. Credit
cards are accepted and postage is extra.

Peter Mosse

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Indian Locomotives Books (Steam) by Hugh Hughes

Date: 23 Sep 1998 19:21:39 -0500


> From: "Peter Mosse" <pjcm@worldnet.email
> To: "Indian Railways List" <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Indian Locomotives Books (Steam) by Hugh Hughes
> Date: Wed, 23 Sep 1998 20:38:32 -0400

> Most people on this list are aware of this series which provides
> comprehensive information (and illustrations) about all Indian Steam
> Locomotives.
>
> I have just received an updated catalogue from Midland Counties
> Publications in England and all four books in the series are still
> available. Anybody who is interested in Indian Steam and doesn't have
> these books should buy a set before they sell out !!
>
> The four books in the series and their prices are:
>
> Part 1: Broad Gauge 1851-1940 stg 7.95 R46985
> Part 2: Metre Gauge 1872-1940 stg 9.00 R46993
> Part 3: Narrow Gauge 1863-1940 stg 9.90 R65503
> Part 4: 1941-1990 (all gauges) stg 10.50 R65511
>
> The R numbers are Midland Counties' stock numbers.
>
> You can order by mail from Midland Counties Publications, Unit 3,
> Maizefield, Hinckley Fields, Hinckley, Leics LE10 1YF, England.
Credit
> cards are accepted and postage is extra.
>
> Peter Mosse
>
Thanks for this extra-ordinary bit of news. Some of us over here in
Mumbai are interested in procuring them. I would like to know whether
M/s. Midland Counties Publications have an e-mail address. Could you
please enquire and let me know?

Thank you.

Sarosh Mehta

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Longest Train

Date: 23 Sep 1998 19:39:50 -0500



Hi All,

Yesterday night I was watching "Extreme Machines" on the Discovery
channel
which featured TRAINS. It was very interesting. Towards the end the
Eurostar was shown for which they said was the longest train in the
world
today, with a length of 1/4 mile.

I am sure some of our Indian Mail and Express trains must be much more
longer than these Eurostar trainsets. Does anyone have any idea?

Regards
==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
==========================

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Re: Indian Locomotives Books (Steam) by Hugh Hughes

Date: 23 Sep 1998 20:37:41 -0500


Sarosh Mehta wrote:

> Thanks for this extra-ordinary bit of news. Some of us over here in
> Mumbai are interested in procuring them. I would like to know whether
> M/s. Midland Counties Publications have an e-mail address. Could you
> please enquire and let me know?
>
-------------

Yes, MCP can be reached by e-mail at midlandbooks@compuserve.email. I
have
ordered from them by e-mail before, giving my credit card information,
and
the order was processed without any problem.

Peter Mosse

From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: Fastest non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi run

Date: 23 Sep 1998 22:13:34 -0500


One reason for entering the other railway on RT is that if they are late
the
foreign train loses the slot and then keeps getting late.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: [Fwd: Re: Longest Train

Date: 24 Sep 1998 05:41:42 -0500


Shankar wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> The Big Boy steamers in the US were reputed to have the capacity to
pull
> a train 5 miles long.
>
> The longest train I know in India is the Prayag Raj Express with 24
> cars, though 26-car trains were said to be on trial. I do not know the
> length in terms of metres or km.
>
> I have once videotaped a freight train near Renigunta on the SR hauled
> by on WAG/5 electric engine comprising of 58 cars.
>
> Best regards.
>
> Shankar.
>
> VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > Yesterday night I was watching "Extreme Machines" on the Discovery
channel
> > which featured TRAINS. It was very interesting. Towards the end the
> > Eurostar was shown for which they said was the longest train in the
world
> > today, with a length of 1/4 mile.
> >
> > I am sure some of our Indian Mail and Express trains must be much
more
> > longer than these Eurostar trainsets. Does anyone have any idea?
> >
> > Regards
> > ==========================
> > Viraf Mulla
> > C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> > Borivali (West)
> > Mumbai 400103
> > Tel: +91-22-8954510
> > E-mail: sncf@godrejnet.email
> > ==========================

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Hughes books

Date: 24 Sep 1998 06:22:01 -0500


Hi

I think you will find that Midland Counties have only part 1, 2 and 3
in stock. I have been trying to get all four parts together for
customers in the States and India for a few weeks now....they seem to
be disappearing so I am picking them out from the used book trade
already.
If you see them buy them...dont hang about.

Regards

Iain
Aerolite Booktraders
Rail Book Specialists

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Munabao link to Pakistan may open?

Date: 24 Sep 1998 08:01:45 -0500



Buried in the mass of other details about discussions on Kashmir and
"confidence-building measures" that India and Pakistan announced
yesterday
in a joint statement was a tiny bit about re-opening the rail link from
Munabao in India to Khokhrapar in Pakistan. The stations are each
currently termini for their respective branch lines, but presumably
through
trackage across the border still exists (perhaps in some disrepair).

On the Indian side, Munabao is connected by MG to Jodhpur, and on the
Pakistani side, Khokhrapar is connected (by MG, I presume) to Hyderabad.

If this works out, we could have a reincarnation of the old Sind Mail
(Ahmedabad-Hyderabad?). I think someone talked about that on this list
a
long time back.

--Satish

From: Peter Mosse <>

Subject: Munabao link to Pakistan + Bostan - Zhob NG line

Date: 24 Sep 1998 10:10:05 -0500


S Pai wrote:

>
> On the Indian side, Munabao is connected by MG to Jodhpur, and on the
> Pakistani side, Khokhrapar is connected (by MG, I presume) to
Hyderabad.

-------------

On the Pakistani side the line is MG to Mirpur Khas and BG from there to
Hyderabad, so passengers would have to change trains in MK.

Currently the daily train between Khokhropar and MK (steam-hauled) takes
6
1/2 hours (and 7 hours in the opposite direction). That's assuming it's
on
time, which, given the current condition of the locos and track, is a
dubious proposition. The distance is all of 126 km, so the average
speed,
even if the train does run on time, is less than 20 km per hour.

This service is obviously not very attractive (except for steam-fans!)
and
I don't think PR has much money available for upgrading. But maybe this
will prompt dieselization of the line. PR has no MG diesels so I wonder
whether the current round of 'confidence-building' might extend to using
IR
MG diesels on the line. With all the BG conversions going on in India,
I
assume IR has plenty to spare.

BTW, I hope to meet the Pakistani Minister for Foreign Affairs at a
reception in New York next week, so I'll see if I can get him to comment
about reopening the link !!

There are now reports that efforts to reopen the Bostan-Zhob
NG line in Pakistan have stalled (presumably for lack of funds). There
were some postings about this ambitious project a couple of months ago.

Peter Mosse

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Hughes books

Date: 24 Sep 1998 10:11:58 -0500



Continental Railway Circle (I believe the name is correct, I'm in
office and books are at home), the publisher of Hughes' books does
accept checks in US$ as well as British pounds and ship books
anywhere in the world. I bought all 4 volumes from them. They did
not have e-mail address at that time. The books and pictures are
really great.

Prakash

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: News from Rediff

Date: 24 Sep 1998 12:45:14 -0500



A romantic journey
The oldest working steam locomotive in the world, the Fairy Queen will
hit the tracks again from October 31.

The steam locomotive, which was built in 1855, travels for two days,
from Alwar to Sariska, in Rajasthan. A train consisting of a specially
designed chair car and a pantry car with an exclusive catering service
will be hauled by the Fairy Queen.

The Indian Railways has priced the trip at Rs 8,000 per person, which is

approximately US $ 190 per person. Tourists will stay at the Hotel
Sariska Palace and will also be given a tour of the tiger sanctuary at
Sariska.

Departure dates: October 31, November 14, 28, December 12, 26, January
9, 23, February 13, 27. There are 50 tickets available for each trip.

The Fairy Queen will depart from New Delhi at 1000 hours and arrives in
Alwar at 1300 hours on the same day. The locomotive will depart from
Alwar at 1600 hours and arrive in New Delhi at 1920 hours the next day.


International Tourist Bureau, New Delhi Railway Station. Phones:
011-3734164, 3346804.
Director, National Rail Museum, Chanakyapuri. Phones: 011-6880804,
6881816. Email: National Rail Museum
Web site: National Rail Museum

For more information on the Fairy Queen, please click here



------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------

All tracks lead to Calcutta

Special trains will be operated by Central Railways to clear the Durga
Puja and Diwali holidays rush.

Central Railways will run 24 trains from Victoria Terminus (CSTM),
Bombay to Howrah between September 21 and October 30 every Monday and
Friday. 859 Dn will depart at 2240 hours and arrive in Howrah at 1430
hours two days later.

And from Howrah to VT, Bombay between September 23 and October 31 every
Wednesday and Friday. 860 Up will depart at 2330 hours and arrive at VT
at 1635 hours two days later.

These special trains will consist of 10 sleeper coaches and three
general second class coaches.

Additionally during this period Central Railways will run four specials
to Ernakulum from Bombay VT. 161 Dn will depart from Bombay VT at 2330
hours on October 10 and 16 and reach Ernakulum at 1505 hours two days
later. 162 Up will depart from Ernakulum at 2355 hours on October 12 and

21 and reach Bombay VT at 2355 hours two days later. This special train
will consist of 10 sleeper coaches, one first class coach and four
general second class coaches.

Additional coaches also will be attached to 16 regular trains -- to
accommodate 71 waitlisted passengers in sleeper class and 64 in AC three

tier -- between September 25 and October 30. These trains:

Dadar-Gorakhpur-Dadar Express Up and Dn
Kurla-Allahabad-Kurla Up and Dn
Kurla-Faizabad-Kurla Up and Dn
Kurla-Agra-Kurla Up and Dn
Kurla-Varanasi-Kurla Up and Dn
Pune-Howrah-Pune Up and Dn
Pune-Varanasi-Pune Up and Dn
CSTM-Madgaon-CSTM Up and Dn
Bookings are now open for all these trains.




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From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: Longest Train

Date: 24 Sep 1998 18:42:50 -0500


VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> Yesterday night I was watching "Extreme Machines" on the Discovery
channel
> which featured TRAINS. It was very interesting. Towards the end the
> Eurostar was shown for which they said was the longest train in the
world
> today, with a length of 1/4 mile.
>
> I am sure some of our Indian Mail and Express trains must be much more
> longer than these Eurostar trainsets. Does anyone have any idea?

Hmmm, a curious statement. Here in the US we can use radio scanners to
listen to the railroad communications, and we also have automated
"defect detectors" that use infra-red cameras to look for overheating
wheel bearings, and other devices to look for shifted loads or dragging
equipment. These detectors use an automated voice to radio to the train
crew that all is well, plus reports on the train length. I regularly
hear train lengths of over 8000 feet, ie well over one mile long. And
in years past passenger trains were 1500-1800 feet long, also over a
quarter mile. Perhaps they mean longest in the realm of articulated
train sets?
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

+ SR 111 +

From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <>

Subject: Re: New Train service

Date: 24 Sep 1998 20:46:36 -0500











This is in series of
> trains linking religious centers - one more is the Nanded - Amritsar
> Sachkhand Express.
> The Vijaynagar Express is also the first train which starts from
> Kolhapur and then reverses direction at Miraj.

There exists yet another train linking religious centres, between
Okha( Dwarka ) in Gujarat and Jagannath Puri in Orissa.
The train is named as Okha-Puri Exp.It was introduced about 3 years
ago and it provides a direct link between East and West coasts.

-- Shrinivas



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From: Shrinivas Bhatwadekar <>

Subject: Re: Bedrolls in AC cars: query

Date: 24 Sep 1998 20:58:29 -0500








> Uh Oh....does this apply to the Rajdhani Exps also ?
> I am due to travel BCT-NDLS-BCT next month by 3 tr AC.

Don't worry.Normally there should be no problem of bedrolls on
Rajdhani Exp.I have travelled a number of times between Vadodara and
NDLS / H.Nizamuddin by Rajdhani / AK Rajdhani Exp. trains in 3-tier
AC.Bedding was always provided.In fact sometimes the AK Rajdhani came
to Vadodara much behind schedule and most of the passengers were fast
asleep.Even then there had never been a problem of non-availability of
bed-rolls.
So be assured.Good luck.


>
> --
> Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
> Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
> TEL 91(212)774261 ext 2534 : FAX 91(212)773191
> --
>

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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: More New Trains

Date: 25 Sep 1998 06:03:36 -0500


Hi Gang ,

I have scanned and OCRed an announcement in the Times of India of
Thursday 24th Sept 1998. New train between Mumbai and Varanasi. Excuse
the typos.

The trains mentioned as Ratnagiri Express is a misleader for a person
who does not know the region well. The 1065/1066 now 2165/66 runs
between Kurla (Mumbai) and Varanasi and comes nowhere near Ratnagiri
which is a few hundred kms south of Mumbai on the Konkan Rail. Unless
there is a secret plan to actually take this train to Ratnagiri.

Apurva Bahadur

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: More New Trains

Date: 25 Sep 1998 09:54:49 -0500



>Hi Gang ,
>
>I have scanned and OCRed an announcement in the Times of India of
>Thursday 24th Sept 1998. New train between Mumbai and Varanasi. Excuse
>the typos.

Thanks for the good news, Apurva. Pushkar and I have been praying for a

Mumbai-Varanasi superfast though we had hoped for a faster train.


>INTRODUCTION OF NEW KURLA(T) VARANASI EXPRESS VIA BHOPAL, BINA, KATNI

>Central Railway will introduce a new Kurla(T) - Varanasi - Kurla (T)
>Express via Bhopal, Bina and Katni on and from 2.10.19 ex Kural (T) >on

and from 4.10.1998 ex. Varanasi.

This would definitely be preferred over the Sabarmati Exp. by
Varanasi-Bina/Bhopal passengers.. It is about an hour faster than the
Kurla-Allahabad Exp. so Allahabad-Bina/Bhopal commuters would benefit as

well.


>Khandwa-Igatpuri Consequent upon introduction of 1071/1072
KuriaQ)->Varanasi~Kur1Arr. Express via Bhopal-Bina-Karni, the timings of

5648 >Up/5646 Up Guwahati-Dadar Exp.,3447 Up. Bhagalpur.Dadar ShrArr.
>Shakti Exp. and 4314 Up Bareily Dadar Exp. Changed. Between
Khandwa->Igatpuri have also been changed. The revised timings are as
under.

Their make-up times have been transfered from the Nasik-Igatpuri section

to the Bhusaval-Manmad section since they are going to be overtaken by
the new Varanasi-Kurla Exp. and Ratnagiri Exp. in the latter section.


>The revised detailed timings of 2165 Dn/21 66 Up Kurla(T)-Varanasi -
>Kurla(T) Ratnagiri Express are as under,

>2165 Dn Revised 2166 Up Revised

>05.20
> Dep. Kurla Terminus Arr. 22.10
>06.10 Arr. Kalyan Dep. 21.15
>06.15 Dep. Arr. 21.10
>08.05 Arr. Lgatpuri Dep. 19.15
>08.25 Dep. Arr. 18.55
>12.30 Arr. Bhusaval Dep. 14.30
>12.40 Dep. Arr. 14.20
>18.20 Arr. Itarsi Dep. 09.15
>18.40 Dep. Arr. 08.55
>22.00 Arr. Jabalpur Dep. 05.45
>22.10 Dep. Arr. 05.35
>01.00 Arr. SArr.e Dep. 02.45
>01.05 Dep. Arr. 02.35
>04.05 Arr. Allahabad Dep 23.30
>04.35 Dep. Arr. 23.00
>06.10 Arr. Bhadohi Dep. 21.18
>06.12 Dep. Arr 21.16
>07.20 Arr. Varanasi Dep. 20.30

Although the Dn. train has been speeded up by 50 mts. between Igatpuri
and Bhusaval (because the Gitanjali Exp. does not overtake it anymore),
it has been slowed by 1/2 hour between Bhusaval and Itarsi, thus,
cruelly offsetting the advantage of a decent Mumbai-Bhusaval run. After

that it's run times are pretty much the same as before.

The Up. train fares better. It has been appreciably speeded up in the
Igatpuri-Bhusaval (the Gitanjali overtake has gone) and Jabalpur-Itarsi
runs. The Itarsi-Bhusaval run is still disappointing despite the
omission of the Karnataka Exp. overtake.


>As a result of being made superfast the train will halt at Kalyan,
>Igatpuri, Bhusaval, Itarsi, Jabalpur, Satna, Allahabad and Bhadohi
>Stations only.

Seems to be a reasonable halt list. Is Igatpuri a techincal halt?
The omission of Kalyan and Bhadohi would have given this train an
impeccable halt pattern.

The commercial speed is around 57-58 kmph. It is the first ever
superfast train between Mumbai and Varanasi. At present, it is the only

superfast train originating from Varanasi and only the 2nd superfast
train in the Itarsi-Allahabad section (the other being the Gondwana
Exp.). It is the only train to ignore Khandwa and Katni.

Vijay

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