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From: Sundar Krishnamurthy <coolsundar@hotmail.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 16 Oct 1997 20:45:00 -0500


Dear Auro,

You said
>
> I have always wondered why this Mumbai-Chennai rail route >(so-called
> "trunk route") has not even progressed/developed a metre since the
> 1920's, while all the other trunk routes : Mumbai-Delhi,
> Mumbai-Calcutta, Chennai-Delhi and Chennai-Calcutta are fully
> developed (double line, most of them fully electrified).
>

There are so many deluxe / prestige or simply, superfast trains in
India! There is a superfast train (2xxx series) from every major city to
another! Even from Mumbai, there's a Shatabdi to Ahmedabad & Pune,
Rajdhanis for New Delhi, Geetanjali to Howrah, Golden Temple Mail &
Paschim for Amritsar, an Avantika for Indore, a Sayaji Nagari for
Vadodara, one for JammuTawi etc. From one city to another, there are
superfast trains connecting ALL the major cities and towns in India!

BUT THERE IS NOT A SINGLE SUPERFAST / PRESTIGE / NICELY MAINTAINED TRAIN
FROM MUMBAI TO ANY CITY IN SOUTH INDIA!!

Except for the Mumbai - Nagercoil/Trivandrum/Tirupati Express that
leaves Mumbai CST at 12:15 pm, there is NOT a single south-bound train
that has a pantry car!

The punctuality of south bound trains coming to Mumbai is so
abyssmal that people coming to recieve their relatives / friends turn up
very late and still wait a couple of hours!!

South Indians have got so used to the alacrity and indifference of IR
that they can now endure ANY ordeal in the world!! Everything else seems
so tame in comparison!! And they talk of discouraging people from coming
to Mumbai!!

Ask any Keralite on his/her experience in reserving a berth for one
of the three trains - 1081 Kanyakumari Express, 6331 Thiruvananthapuram
Express via Madurai and 6635 Cochin/ M'lore
Netravati Express; and you remember partition! The prospective passenger
has to come one night before the date when reservations for a particular
train open. He sets up a bedsheet outside the reservation center line
and goes to sleep with the latest copy of Manorama / Kumudam magazine.
(Obvoiusly, some of you people out there would know, how you get US
Visas in Chennai now!) There are a lot of tourists who give him company
on the pavement! The next day, at 7:00 am, there are approximately 500
people in the line, eagerly awaiting 8:00 am when the doors of the
center open.

At 8:00 am, there's a stampede scenario as people rush inside and
position themselves in one of the many counters that dishes out tickets.
Tempers run high and frustration ensues as people realize, its
RAC time (all tickets sold) by 8:05, and WaitList Numbers in some time!

AND IR FEELS THESE ROUTES ARE UNECONOMICAL!

We've had Railway Ministers from South India .... Shri C. K. Jaffer
Sharif from Bangalore who introduced trains from Blore to everywhere -
even a weekly one to Gorakhpur!, but did absolutely NOTHING for
improving the Mumbai - South corridor! The complacency displayed by IR
is so bad, that on many instances, 6011 Mumbai Chennai Express has NO
water, NO power for the day!!

Ratlam, at a distance of 653 kms from Mumbai Central on the New Delhi
Trunk, takes 8.5 hours by Rajdhani, 10 Hours by other superfast trains
and 14 Hours by the slowest train - 9019 Dehra Dun Express. On CR, Wadi
lies at a distance of 605 kms from Mumbai CST, but the fastest time is
11.5 hours, by 7001 Hyderabad Hussain Sagar Express! The track
maintenance, speed limits and stoppages are ridiculous! On an average,
every south bound train from Mumbai clocks a schedule speed that is not
more than 50 kmph!!!

That's one reason why bus operators and travel agencies thrive in
Mumbai! Start a bus service to any south Indian city and you thrive!!
South India has been a very important tourist destination, with rich
cultural heritages, beaches, temples, resorts, hill stations etc. But,
invariably, tourists gravitate into the arms of private airlines and
road
transport agencies.

> If the basic criteria employed to develop a rail route is Traffic
>Potential
> and Expected Returns, then I am sure "Daund-Gooty" section (Daund-Wadi
> section is on Central Rly, Wadi-Gooty is on South Central Rly) is
> completely overloaded at present ...

All south-bound trains have 8 or more sleeper class cars, and at any
point of day / night they resemble a peak hour local train in Mumbai.
Unreserved people think sleeper class coaches are their grandfather's
property, and carry on regardless of any TTC.

>
> some Super-fast trains and also a "Rajdhani". Who knows, in the
future, we may
> also see a "Super-Shatabdi" on this miserable corridor - a Shatadbi
that
> will just remain stationed in the schedule and time-table and not run
>like
> a real one should !
>

Regarding the starting a Shatabdi on this miserable corridor, it is
highly improbable as current track maintenance and single-line
bottlenecks would make the running speed of the train to be 50 kmph, and
for a train to qualify as a superfast, it has to have a minimum running
speed of 60 kmph!

With no offense to people of any state, I feel that south Indians are
generally more academically oriented and they feel that everything else
is secondary. You don't get rich businessmen, politicians or foreign
tourists travelling in these trains. Its invariably bank employees,
computer programmers, officers that take their family down south for
visiting relatives and hometown events. These people have no direct
saying in railway matters. Unless we unite, stand up and shout loud,
IR will not improve.

Keralites will rejoice when Konkan Railway starts service on 1st
December 1997. On account of KR being autonomous, we pray that
it should not take ANY influence from IR in its functioning. With Mr. E.
Shreedharan's vision, even his Mumbai Metro project should take off!!





--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sundar Krishnamurthy ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._
9/66, Welfare Hse, Sion (W), `6_ 6 ) `-. ( ).`-.__.`)
Mumbai 400 022. INDIA (_Y_.)' ._ ) `._ `. ``-..-'
Tel : +91 +22 4071254 _.. `--'_..-_/ /--'_.' ,'
coolsundar@hotmail.email (il),-'' (li),' ((!.-'
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~sundari">http://members.tripod.com/~sundari</A>
-------------------------------------------Today is the day of glory
-----------------------------------------The Code is the whole story


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: S. Kumar <s.kumar@qm.email

Subject: Chennai-Mumbai Line

Date: 17 Oct 1997 14:53:00 -0500


Auro writes
>I have always wondered why this Mumbai-Chennai rail route (so-called
>"trunk route") has not even progressed/developed a metre since the
>1920's, while all the other trunk routes : Mumbai-Delhi,
>Mumbai-Calcutta, Chennai-Delhi and Chennai-Calcutta are fully
>developed (double line, most of them fully electrified).

I think that this is due to a combination of factors. First, the
Mumbai-Chennai route passes through areas in Maharashtra, Karnataka,
and Andhra which have never been politically influential within their
own respective states. In Maharashtra, the influential regions are
Mumbai, Pune, the sugarcane growing belt south of Pune (Kolhapur,
Satara etc.), and parts of the Marathwada region north-east of Mumbai
(Manmad, Nasik etc.). Hence only the Mumbai-Pune part of the route is in
relatively decent shape. In Karnataka, the Mysore-Mandya-Bangalore
belt is the most influential region, with northern Karnataka (in
particular Raichur, Gulbarga and Bidar) being the least influential
region. In Andhra, Rayalaseema is at the bottom of the totem pole,
with coastal Andhra being the most influential. Telengana, though
relatively backward, benefits from having Hyderabad within it. Hence
the Chennai-Howrah route (which passes through coastal Andhra) and
the Chennai-Delhi route (which passes through coastal Andhra and
Telengana) are in far better shape than the Chennai-Mumbai route
which mostly passes through Rayalaseema.

Another reason for the better shape of the other routes is that many
of them are for a good part "common" trunk routes between the 4
metros. For example, Chennai-Vijayawada is common for the Howrah and
Delhi routes, Kharagpur-Howrah is common for the Chennai and Mumbai
(CR) routes, Delhi-Itarsi is common for the Mumbai and Chennai routes,
Mumbai-Bhusaval is common for the Delhi and Howrah routes etc.

Delhi-Mumbai (WR) is arguably the "premier" route of the country
generating a lot of business traffic. While Delhi-Howrah is probably
less important in terms of generating business traffic, it traverses
the length of UP, the home state of PM's Nehru, Indira Gandhi, Shastri, Rajiv Gandhi,
Charan Singh, V.P. Singh, Chandrashekhar.
The most important line through UP has been, therefore, treated
royally. In addition, the Dhanbad-Asansol-Howrah belt is highly
industrial with mining and manufacturing. The same can be said about
the Bilaspur-Durg-Raipur belt and the Raurkela-Tatanagar-Howrah belt
on the Mumbai-Howrah line.

Also, Chennai-Delhi has benefitted from having Delhi as a
destination, since Delhi is lavished frequently with numerous favors
from the Indian Govt. The "Scindia" effect of lavishing favors on
the Gwalior region also has helped this line.

In addition to passing through coastal AP, the Chennai-Howrah line
passes through coastal Orissa, the most influential region within
Orissa, helped to a great extent by the efforts of former chief
minister Biju Patnaik. The presence of Puri greatly helped the
development of the Howrah-Khurda Rd. section of the line. The
commercial and naval importance of Vishakapatnam port and the need of
an alternative to Calcutta and Chennai ports for the South Bihar/West
Bengal industrial and mining region on the east coast also
helped the Chennai-Howrah line. (By the way train travel "heaven" can
be achieved on this route by sitting on the east-facing window seat
on the 6003 Howrah-Chennai Mail at dawn on the second day and
watching the golden sunrise over the tranquil Chilka Lake as the Mail
traverses at full speed with the occasional blast of the engine horn
and the wind hitting your face which is glued to the open
window!! This experience has given this rail fan many pleasurable
moments in the past).

Regards

Kumar

From: Sridhar Shankar <msshanka@gsbmba2.email

Subject: Re: New IR GM locomotives.

Date: 17 Oct 1997 10:59:00 -0500


Larry,

Thanks for the update. Does it look similar to the SD70MAC here?
i.e. does it sport a short nose on the short hood side?
and dual controls? ...

-Sridhar

****************************************************************
Graduate School of Business Sridhar Shankar
University of Chicago 5345 S.Harper Apt. 205
Chicago, IL 60637 Chicago, IL 60615
USA (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

On Thu, 16 Oct 1997, Larry Russell wrote:

> The new order of GM GT46MAC diesel electrics of 4000 hp is under way at
> London Ontario plant. The first one was shipped to LaGrange IL for testing
> in late August and wound up by mistake in Kansas City. Unit is numbered
> 1997 on the cab side and 4000 on the front. Loco numbers reportedly are
> 11000 series on IR but these numbers already exist I am told. 1997/4000 is
> painted in the EMD current demo paint scheme of turquoise, blue and black.
> A very nice looking unit. Looks like delivery will not be until next year.
> Larry Russell.
>
>
>

From: Sridhar Shankar <msshanka@gsbmba2.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 11:06:00 -0500


Sundar,

Thanks for the tour de force article on trainspotting. This brought back
memories of numerous trips (particularly on Dadar express) on the
Madras-Bombay sections. This section is without a doubt under developed
and at times pathetic. However, there are some positive aspects. It is
one of the few segments where you can still travel under Diesel traction.
And the single line necessicitates frequent stops for crossings, which can
make for some interesting diversions.

Another feature of the CR stations is that they are always well lit
in the night. Kurudwadi in particular, is a great sight in the night - the
orange glow of the sodium vapor lamps can be seen for miles.

-Sridhar

****************************************************************
Graduate School of Business Sridhar Shankar
University of Chicago 5345 S.Harper Apt. 205
Chicago, IL 60637 Chicago, IL 60615
USA (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Kartik Subramanian <ksubrama@eecs.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 11:31:00 -0500


Hi Sridhar, Sundar and everbody,
I was under the "wrong" impression that I was the only person who is still
fascinated by the grandeur and the aura of the IR, but I am very glad that
I have company.
I have one small question, The Bombay-Poone line is electricfied at 1.5KV
and to the best of my knowledge this is the only corridor that has this
voltage. All over India, electric train services operate at 25KV.

Also, if you might have noticed, there is a unique class of locomotives (
made by the Elec. Locomotive Works at Chittaranjan ) which haul long
distance trains over the Bombay-Poona sector which run at 1.5KV. The rest
of India which is electrified is serviced by the WCG2 class et al run at
25KV. I do not undertsand this inconsistency. Could someone throw some
light on this issue.

Thanks,
Regards,
----------------------
Kartik Subramanian

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 14:44:00 -0500


Hi Kartik,

Mumbai-Pune as wll as Mumbai-Igatpuri (or Kasara????) sections of CR an=
d
Churchgate-Virar section of WR (just 40 miles) were electrified around =
1928.
Those days, the Mercury Arc rectifiers with huge glass domes and DC Ser=
ies
motors was the top of line technology. The things have changed a lot si=
nce
then and I had heard that WR is planning to convert Churchgate-Virar se=
ction
from 1500V DC to 25 KV AC. Currently, WR is the only one to use AC-DC l=
ocos
because Bombay Central to Virar is 35 miles run. They are replaced most=
ly
at Valsad (200 kms) or Vadodara in just handful of cases.

Eastern Railway converted its' suburban section from 3000 V DC to 25 KV=
AC
some 25-30 years back. Hitachi locos made for ER were converted to 1500=
V
and transferred to CR. EMUs made by MAN were transferred to WR and they=
used
them after conversion for a few years.

Prakash


Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536


>I have one small question, The Bombay-Poone line is electricfied at 1.=
5KV
>and to the best of my knowledge this is the only corridor that has thi=
s
>voltage. All over India, electric train services operate at 25KV.

=

From: S Pai <pai@apollo.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 15:23:00 -0500


"PT" == Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email writes:

PT> Eastern Railway converted its' suburban section from 3000 V DC to 25 KV=
PT> AC some 25-30 years back.

Didn't some sections around Madras also have 3000VDC electrification?

-Satish

From: S Pai <pai@apollo.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 15:23:00 -0500


"PT" == Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email writes:

PT> Eastern Railway converted its' suburban section from 3000 V DC to 25 KV=
PT> AC some 25-30 years back.

Didn't some sections around Madras also have 3000VDC electrification?

-Satish

From: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 10:50:00 -0500


Hi! This is Bharat Vohra here,
am glad too that I have company out there.....thrilled in fact!
Also a great writeup on trainspotting in india..so very true, I can
picture myself doing all the same things!!!
Well to answer your querry on the inconsistency of DC, AC locos in
India-
Central railway was the first in the country to get an electrified
section which was soon followed by Western railway getting it...the
suburban sections of both CR and WR started of with DC traction rated at
1500 Volts DC. and continue to be so today.
Calcutta also had DC lines till shortly after independence, but they
were converted. The Indian railways found that AC lines were far more
efficient and had lesser maintainence hassles, also in the long run,
costs would be brought down, so as a policy decision all lines hence
would be rated at 25,000 KV Ac! that is exactly the scene today!
I am to believe that till very recently Southern railways metre gauge
network had DC traction, but recent photgraphs prove otherwise.
Also a loco preserved at the rail museum at Delhi is marked YCG1!!
As of today however only CR and WR for sure have DC traction.
WR between Churchgate and Virar, a distance of about 60 odd kms and CR
has a mush broader area covered by DC. From VT to Igatpuri (via Kalyan)
in the north and kalyan to Pune in the south. Also all of their suburban
lines in Bombay are on DC traction. Thier total area would be approx 400
odd km!!!
Once the decision to electrify all other lines in india at 25 KV AC was
made, Bombay(CR and WR) were isolated with their DC sections!
On the western railways, trains ran out of Bombay on steam and diesel
all the way till the late 70's. Parel steam shed closed down in 79'!
In 1977-78, Chitaranjan turned out the first of 53 (numbered 21800-52)
WCAM1 class locos that could run through the suburban section on DC and
beyond on AC, since it was electrified beyond.
In 1995, BHEL turned out more powerful and air braked WCAM2's rated at
3200 HP to haul the rajdhanis and other airbraked trains of WR from
Bombay, which were earlier in the hands of WDM2's.
At about the same time a few WCAM1's were modified and converted to air
brake. As of today , in the Bombay area of WR, except for the DMU trains
all traffic(frieght and passenger) is handled by WCAM1's and WCAM2's.
All locos of these classes are sheeded at Valsad, Gujarat
On the Central Railway, things were a little different. Since CR was
only electified in the ghats area and Bombay and had a much broader
network than WR they needed a whole fleet of DC powers from the
beginning. These needs were met by importing DC locos in. England ,
Switzerland and Japan were the contributors. Hitachi of Japan supplied
the WCAM 4's, Swiss loco works, Winterthur supplied prototypes for the
WCG1 which were also supplied by Metropolitan Vickers, Manchester. Then
came the WCM1, 2 ,and 3 from the English Electric Company.
Chittaranjan came into the act much later and by the 70's started
supplyng the WCM5's and WCG2's which you mentioned.
Last year after CR tested some WCAM2's (on loan from WR), it took
delivery of 5000HP WCAM3's from BHEL....a slow replacement for the old
WCM1,2, etc...
As of today CR has all its locos shedded at Kalyan and has satellite
sheds or outstation sheds at VT, Wadi Bunder, Kurla, Igatpuri, Lonavala
and Pune! WCM3's and WCG1's have been removed from service 2 years back!
WCG2's and WCM5's (both Chittaranjan) and nowadays WCAM3's are the main
stay on Central.
Plans are currently underway by IR to convert the Bombay areas of CR and
WR to 25KV AC....so that will be the end of all DC in India, whe it
happens..hope the info was useful
Regards, Bharat Vohra

>From irfca-request@cs.email Fri Oct 17 10:35:27 1997
>Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu
> by hyena.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
> id NAA21267; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
>Received: from mail.eecs.uic.edu
> by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
> id NAA08654; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
>Received: from grad_assistant2 ([128.248.248.50]) by mail.eecs.uic.edu
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(CDT)
>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971017123133.0092d350@eecs.email
>X-Sender: ksubrama@eecs.email
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
>Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:31:34 -0500
>To: Sridhar Shankar <msshanka@gsbmba2.email
> Sundar Krishnamurthy <coolsundar@hotmail.email
>From: Kartik Subramanian <ksubrama@eecs.email
>Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Sridhar, Sundar and everbody,
>I was under the "wrong" impression that I was the only person who is
still
>fascinated by the grandeur and the aura of the IR, but I am very glad
that
>I have company.
>I have one small question, The Bombay-Poone line is electricfied at
1.5KV
>and to the best of my knowledge this is the only corridor that has this
>voltage. All over India, electric train services operate at 25KV.
>
>Also, if you might have noticed, there is a unique class of locomotives
(
>made by the Elec. Locomotive Works at Chittaranjan ) which haul long
>distance trains over the Bombay-Poona sector which run at 1.5KV. The
rest
>of India which is electrified is serviced by the WCG2 class et al run
at
>25KV. I do not undertsand this inconsistency. Could someone throw some
>light on this issue.
>
>Thanks,
>Regards,
>----------------------
>Kartik Subramanian
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Bharat Vohra <bvohra@hotmail.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 17 Oct 1997 10:50:00 -0500


Hi! This is Bharat Vohra here,
am glad too that I have company out there.....thrilled in fact!
Also a great writeup on trainspotting in india..so very true, I can
picture myself doing all the same things!!!
Well to answer your querry on the inconsistency of DC, AC locos in
India-
Central railway was the first in the country to get an electrified
section which was soon followed by Western railway getting it...the
suburban sections of both CR and WR started of with DC traction rated at
1500 Volts DC. and continue to be so today.
Calcutta also had DC lines till shortly after independence, but they
were converted. The Indian railways found that AC lines were far more
efficient and had lesser maintainence hassles, also in the long run,
costs would be brought down, so as a policy decision all lines hence
would be rated at 25,000 KV Ac! that is exactly the scene today!
I am to believe that till very recently Southern railways metre gauge
network had DC traction, but recent photgraphs prove otherwise.
Also a loco preserved at the rail museum at Delhi is marked YCG1!!
As of today however only CR and WR for sure have DC traction.
WR between Churchgate and Virar, a distance of about 60 odd kms and CR
has a mush broader area covered by DC. From VT to Igatpuri (via Kalyan)
in the north and kalyan to Pune in the south. Also all of their suburban
lines in Bombay are on DC traction. Thier total area would be approx 400
odd km!!!
Once the decision to electrify all other lines in india at 25 KV AC was
made, Bombay(CR and WR) were isolated with their DC sections!
On the western railways, trains ran out of Bombay on steam and diesel
all the way till the late 70's. Parel steam shed closed down in 79'!
In 1977-78, Chitaranjan turned out the first of 53 (numbered 21800-52)
WCAM1 class locos that could run through the suburban section on DC and
beyond on AC, since it was electrified beyond.
In 1995, BHEL turned out more powerful and air braked WCAM2's rated at
3200 HP to haul the rajdhanis and other airbraked trains of WR from
Bombay, which were earlier in the hands of WDM2's.
At about the same time a few WCAM1's were modified and converted to air
brake. As of today , in the Bombay area of WR, except for the DMU trains
all traffic(frieght and passenger) is handled by WCAM1's and WCAM2's.
All locos of these classes are sheeded at Valsad, Gujarat
On the Central Railway, things were a little different. Since CR was
only electified in the ghats area and Bombay and had a much broader
network than WR they needed a whole fleet of DC powers from the
beginning. These needs were met by importing DC locos in. England ,
Switzerland and Japan were the contributors. Hitachi of Japan supplied
the WCAM 4's, Swiss loco works, Winterthur supplied prototypes for the
WCG1 which were also supplied by Metropolitan Vickers, Manchester. Then
came the WCM1, 2 ,and 3 from the English Electric Company.
Chittaranjan came into the act much later and by the 70's started
supplyng the WCM5's and WCG2's which you mentioned.
Last year after CR tested some WCAM2's (on loan from WR), it took
delivery of 5000HP WCAM3's from BHEL....a slow replacement for the old
WCM1,2, etc...
As of today CR has all its locos shedded at Kalyan and has satellite
sheds or outstation sheds at VT, Wadi Bunder, Kurla, Igatpuri, Lonavala
and Pune! WCM3's and WCG1's have been removed from service 2 years back!
WCG2's and WCM5's (both Chittaranjan) and nowadays WCAM3's are the main
stay on Central.
Plans are currently underway by IR to convert the Bombay areas of CR and
WR to 25KV AC....so that will be the end of all DC in India, whe it
happens..hope the info was useful
Regards, Bharat Vohra

>From irfca-request@cs.email Fri Oct 17 10:35:27 1997
>Received: from mimsy.cs.umd.edu
> by hyena.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
> id NAA21267; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:32:00 -0400 (EDT)
>Received: from mail.eecs.uic.edu
> by mimsy.cs.umd.edu (8.8.5/UMIACS-0.9/04-05-88)
> id NAA08654; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 13:31:58 -0400 (EDT)
>Received: from grad_assistant2 ([128.248.248.50]) by mail.eecs.uic.edu
(8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA12601; Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:33:20 -0500
(CDT)
>Message-Id: <3.0.32.19971017123133.0092d350@eecs.email
>X-Sender: ksubrama@eecs.email
>X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32)
>Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:31:34 -0500
>To: Sridhar Shankar <msshanka@gsbmba2.email
> Sundar Krishnamurthy <coolsundar@hotmail.email
>From: Kartik Subramanian <ksubrama@eecs.email
>Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Mime-Version: 1.0
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
>Hi Sridhar, Sundar and everbody,
>I was under the "wrong" impression that I was the only person who is
still
>fascinated by the grandeur and the aura of the IR, but I am very glad
that
>I have company.
>I have one small question, The Bombay-Poone line is electricfied at
1.5KV
>and to the best of my knowledge this is the only corridor that has this
>voltage. All over India, electric train services operate at 25KV.
>
>Also, if you might have noticed, there is a unique class of locomotives
(
>made by the Elec. Locomotive Works at Chittaranjan ) which haul long
>distance trains over the Bombay-Poona sector which run at 1.5KV. The
rest
>of India which is electrified is serviced by the WCG2 class et al run
at
>25KV. I do not undertsand this inconsistency. Could someone throw some
>light on this issue.
>
>Thanks,
>Regards,
>----------------------
>Kartik Subramanian
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: Re: 2ft gauge lines in India

Date: 17 Oct 1997 18:33:00 -0500


John,

Neral - Matheran section on Central Railway has 2 ft guage line
powered by B0-B0 disel hydralics. They had some steam locos long
time back plus one Ford or Chevy Rail car but I do not know their
present operating status.

This line is unique in several areas. The grade is very steep,
is very scenic and the brakes are one hundred percent manual.
When the driver (Engineer) signals to apply brakes, brakeman
standing on footboard of every coach pushes the brake lever.

Although the loco has pneumatic brakes, they are never used when
hauling the train. While descending from Matheran to Neral,
brakes are applied manually by rotating handwheel in driving cab.

The maximum speed limit while descending is 15 kms/hr (10 miles/hr).

Neral is located few miles from Bombay on Bombay - Poona section,
easily accessible by suburban trains and Matheran is a hill station.

Prakash


Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
=

From: Prakash Tendulkar <prakash@us.email

Subject: DC traction in Madras

Date: 17 Oct 1997 18:37:00 -0500


Satish,

You are correct in pointing about DC traction in Madras.

I am not sure if they had 1500V DC or 3000 V DC. WR had one
EMU made by SIG. Being only one of a kind, (CR had none) they
had trouble maintaining it. It was transferred to Madras since
they had a fleet of EMUs made by SIG. ICF adopted external
appearance of these EMUs in their production.

Prakash


Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536




Notes Address: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
VM Address: IBMUSM50(PRAKASH)
Internet Address: prakash@us.email
Phone: (408)463-3536
=

From: Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya <bhatta@unixg.email

Subject: E-mail in Indian Railways.

Date: 19 Oct 1997 05:09:00 -0500


Does IR have e-mail fascility now? I know Rly Staff College has a home
page. I want to know if RDSO, Railway Board and IRIMEE have home pages and
e-mail. Long time back I was in SCRA.

Nalinaksha Bhattacharyya
<A HREF="http://finance.commerce.ubc.ca/~bhatta">http://finance.commerce.ubc.ca/~bhatta</A>
"The lifestyle of the Indian elite is amazing...I've never seen
such opulence even in America"---Noam Chomsky in New Delhi in 1996

From: GITA MODGIL <gita@giasbma.email

Subject: Re: Railway Accidents in India

Date: 19 Oct 1997 18:21:00 -0500


Replies to the queries are as follows:
1)the investigations are done by an independent agency under the ministry
of civil aviation.
2)the report is not available to the public. it is recommendatory in
nature and some of its advices may not be accepted by the railway board.
The beauty of the whole thing is that the person who investigate belong to
only one deptt. of the IR that is the civil engg. and so the final
findings may not reflect the actual cause.


gita@giasbma.email

********************************************************************************


On Wed, 15 Oct 1997, Peter Mosse wrote:

> List members have been commenting on railway accidents in India and this
> prompts me to ask a series of questions:
>
> 1. Following a serious railway accident in India, who is responsible for
> investigating it ?
> 2. Does the investigating agency issue a report which is available to the
> public ?
> 3. If yes, how could a foreigner best obtain a copy (should he/she be
> interested in doing so) ?
>
> To put this in an international context, railway accidents in the UK have
> long been subject to investigation by the Railway Inspectorate (typically
> army engineers) who issue a written report to the responsible government
> -department (in Victorian days the Board of Trade; then the Ministry of
> Transport; and more recently the Department of the Environment). These
> reports are published by HMSO (the government stationery office) and can be
> purchased quite easily, though they are quite expensive. Old accident
> reports are often sold by railway collectible dealers and some reports have
> been reprinted as they provide fascinating insights into everyday working
> conditions on the railways in years gone by.
>
> In the US, the National Transportation Safety Board investigates and
> publishes accident reports. Many years ago these were available free of
> charge to anyone on the mailing list, but they have now become expensive
> too.
>
> In Canada the role is fulfilled by the Transportation Safety Board of
> Canada and its reports are still available free if you can get on the
> mailing list (though there is a possibility of charges being introduced).
>
> Peter Mosse
> New York City
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: K Sivakumar <siva@EESUN2.email

Subject: Dream of trans-Asian railway chugging to reality (fwd)

Date: 20 Oct 1997 23:13:00 -0500



Dream of trans-Asian railway chugging to reality

Associated Press, 10/20/97 01:36


BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) - One of the world's
longest train rides - a 9,300-mile trek from Singapore to Scotland - is
getting closer.
Planners and engineers are cobbling together the last links of a
vast railway network that will link the far reaches of Asia and on to
Europe. About 1,200 miles of rails remain to be laid in Asia and a railway
tunnel must be dug under the Bosporus Straits linking the European and
Asian parts of Turkey before the four-decades-old dream becomes reality.

``The network should be great for trade, and tourists will be able to
travel through such remote, beautiful countries,'' said Arbind Ghose, a
railway expert in India. ``The gaps are now small, and the funds will come.
The projects are all bankable.'' When complete, the envisioned
``Trans-Asian Railway'' will encompass two major east-west flows, both
with rail links to Southeast Asia.

The northern corridor will run from the Korean peninsula to Moscow and
thereby to the eastern gates of Europe. A southern one will run from
Bangladesh through the Indian subcontinent and Iran and on to Europe's
southeastern entryway - Istanbul and the Bosporus Straits.

Branch lines are to move travellers and freight to such landlocked
countries as Afghanistan, Laos and Nepal. Access to Central Asia will be
greatly improved.

The U.N. Economic and Social Commission for Asia and the Pacific says
burgeoning trade will spur completion of the network. In Asia, trade is
growing an average of 13 percent a year, compared to 9 percent for the
rest of the world.

The project was first discussed at the U.N. commission in 1960, but it
has been derailed by problems ranging from war in Iran to the long
self-imposed isolation of Burma.

Obstacles remain. Malaysian railway consultants had to halt work in
Cambodia because of the recent bloody coup. But overall, Asia has rarely
been more peaceful, or more bent on steaming ahead with modernization. A
trans-Asia railroad is now high on the agendas of many regional meetings.

``Things are getting exciting,'' said M. Rahmmatulla, the commssion's
lead official for the rail project. The focus is on filling key gaps,
including 341 miles inside Iran, two small sections in Cambodia and
870 miles that would link Thailand and Bangladesh through Burma, which
finally signed on for the project last year.

One major obstacle is the tense standoff between North and South Korea,
which leaves a 12-mile gap that would cross the demilitarized zone
separating the enemies.

Another problem is that the nations of Asia use five different track
gauges, meaning trains cannot traverse the whole route. But Rahmmatullah
said the differing gauges will not significantly slow the movement of goods,
because modern machines permit quick movement of cargo containers between
trains. More problematic is getting everyone to sign seven major
international conventions designed to ensure quick, cost-effective movement
across frontiers, he said in an interview.

To date, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Burma, Laos, Mongolia, Nepal, North Korea
and Vietnam have signed none. United Nations studies say that freight,
rather than people, will pay for the network and that transport by train
across Asia could be cheaper than shipping by sea.

A test run, scheduled for 1999, hopes to prove it will be more cost
effective to move goods along the northern corridor from Pacific ports
to Europe if the train can average 30 mph and be subject to a single tariff.
The train journey would take 28 days as opposed to 35 by sea.

Proponents also argue that railways are easier on the environment and
more energy efficient than highway and air traffic. The Sustainable
Transport Action Network for Asia and the Pacific, a group based in
Malaysia, says rail lines through sensitive, remote areas are much
less likely than roads to trigger over-rapid modernization, deforestation
and other unwanted development.

Whatever the hurdles, planners say that within five to 10 years rail buffs
should be able to savor a veritable Asian railway bazaar. Among the
possible itineraries:

-Singapore to Bangkok, Thailand, on the already running luxury Eastern &
Oriental. Then either through Laos (yet to have a single foot of track) to
southern China or across Cambodia to Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi, Vietnam, and
China. From China on the classic Trans-Siberian to Moscow, with options
through Central Asia available.

-Across the Indonesian islands of Java and Sumatra, then by railway ferry to
Singapore. From Thailand a journey through areas of Burma rarely seen by
Westerners since World War II. Then Bangladesh, the plains of India and on to
Pakistan, Iran and Turkey, with its rail links to Europe, the Middle East and
Africa.

<A HREF="http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/293/Dream_of_trans_Asian_railway_chuggi.htm">http://www.boston.com/dailynews/wirehtml/293/Dream_of_trans_Asian_railway_chuggi.htm</A>

From: Peter Mosse <pjcm@worldnet.email

Subject: Indian Railways Working Timetables

Date: 27 Oct 1997 06:14:00 -0500


Can anyone help me find source(s) for Indian Railways Working Timetables ??

I am seeking to build up a set giving complete coverage of the country and
so far I have only a Northern Railway All Divisions WTT from 1991 which I
obtained on a visit to India that year and various other WTT's from the
1930's and 1940's which I have purchased from dealers in the UK.

Dates of operation are not particularly important.

Peter Mosse

From: ncl <ncl@del2.email

Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: Photographs reqd.]

Date: 31 Oct 1997 07:17:00 -0500


We require some pictures from magazines or actual snapshots of Railway
Stations outside India. We'll like to know from where we could source
them or in case someone by chance has a personal collection of such
pictures.

Thank you.

Sonali.C.

From: S Pai <pai@apollo.email

Subject: (forwarded) Photographs reqd.

Date: 30 Oct 1997 10:29:00 -0500


Can anyone help this person? I'm aware of train sites on the Web that have
pictures of trains and locomotives, but cannot offhand think of any that
have pictures of stations. Perhaps sites devoted to specific cities might
have some. Or if anyone has actual photographs and is willing to part with
them, they could send them (or copies).

-Satish

[Sorry if this is a re-post -- it wasn't clear to me from the headers whether
this message had been sent to the entire list or only to a few addresses.]

------- start of forwarded message (RFC 934 encapsulation) -------

From: ncl@del2.email
Date: Thu, 30 Oct 1997 21:48:48 +0530
Organization: Netcomm Labs
Subject: Photographs reqd.

We require some pictures from magazines or actual snapshots of Railway
Stations outside India. We'll like to know from where we could source
them or in case someone by chance has a personal collection of such
pictures.

Thank you.

Sonali.C.

------- end -------

From: Peter Mosse <pjcm@worldnet.email

Subject: Re: the "Fairy Queen"

Date: 02 Nov 1997 15:49:00 -0500


A belated response to a posting by S Pai on Sept 30.
He wrote:
>
> This is from a Reuter news report: Last Saturday the "Fairy Queen",
claimed to
> be the world's oldest working locomotive, left on a two-day run from
Delhi
> (Cantonment) to Alwar in Rajasthan hauling tourists in two carriages.
>
> The loco was built in 1855 by Kitson, Thompson, and Hewitson, for the
then
> East India Railway. It was in service from 1857 to 1909 hauling trains
> between Howrah and Raniganj. From 1909 to 1972 the loco was mothballed
at
> Howrah and Lucknow and then at the Rail Museum in New Delhi. It was
restored
> in December 1996 at one of the loco sheds of the Southern Railway.
>
> I have heard it claimed that there are one or two even older locomotives
that
> have been restored and in operation in Europe -- does anyone have any
details?

=======

I don't know about earlier locos in operation in Europe. However, the
Festiniog Railway in North Wales has two locos in full working order which
are almost as old as "Fairy Queen": "Prince", built in 1863; and "Lord
Palmerston" built in 1864 and restored to steam in 1993.

The Festiniog Railway has an excellent website at <A HREF="http://www.festrail.co.uk">http://www.festrail.co.uk</A>
with information on these and the other locomotives in their collection.

Peter Mosse

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@fpk.email

Subject: Re: Trainspotting from Trains

Date: 03 Nov 1997 17:04:00 -0500


Prakash Tendulkar wrote:

> Eastern Railway converted its' suburban section from 3000 V DC to 25 KV AC
> some 25-30 years back. Hitachi locos made for ER were converted to 1500V
> and transferred to CR. EMUs made by MAN were transferred to WR and they used
> them after conversion for a few years.

With the arrival of AC in Howrah also arrived Hitachi/Mitsubishi/Toshiba built
AC locomotives, in addition to the Alcatel-Alsthom built AC locmotives.

Initially, Eastern Railway (ER) had just a single route electrified at 3kV DC,
that was Howrah to Burdwan via Main Line (Bandel). Subsequent electrification
in ER began in the coal fields area and then on towards Mughal Sarai using the
25kV 50Hz AC system. Eventually this electrification proceeded to extend
towards Burdwan (from Asansol), at which point the Burdwan - Howrah section was
converted to the AC system. All DC rolling stock was converted to 1.5kV and
sent to Bombay (or de-motored). For several years there was a shortage of AC
EMUs, and intially EMU trailers with an AC electric locomotive in the middle of
the rake was a common sight. Incidentally this is exactly what happened again
when Sealdah Division was electrified later.

When Burdwan (these days it is Barddhaman or some such) - Howrah via Bandel was
converted, Burdwan - Howrah via Howrah - Burdwan Chord (via Kamarkundu) was
also electrified using the AC system, thus starting through electric haulage of
passenger trains from Howrah to Mughal Sarai via Grand Chord (Asansol - Dhanbad
- Gaya - MGS). For a couple of years before that, trains were electric hauled
from Mughal Sarai to Asansol, and then they changed to Steam or Diesel for
their journey to Howrah. The exception was the Air-Conditioned Express via
Grand Chord (81up/82dn) which was steam (WP) hauled all the way. It was later
converted to electric directly from steam for its entire run on Eastern
Railway. Eventually, the Howrah Steam shed was closed and shunting duties in
Howarah were taken over by diesle shunters, and that was the nd of Steam in
Howrah. The last Steam hauled trains from Howrah were towards Katwa (BAK Loop).

I used to be a frequent traveller on this route those days and have vivid
memories of the events. Even before that when Howrah - Burdwan via Main Line
was electrified (3kV DC) I have memories of departing Howrah on Howrah - Bombay
Mail via Nagpur (Hauled by a WP/P class, i.e. an original Baldwin built WP).
The departure time for Bombay Mail via Nagpur and Amritsar Mail was exactly the
same from Howrah. Amritsar Mail was then hauled by a DC electric from Howrah to
Burdwan. Interestingly both trains would start up at the same time, right on
time! Of course Amritsar Mail would move ahead for a while, but then invariably
it would get a yellow or a red at Liluah outer, and we would watch it standing
by the Howrah EMU shed near Tikiapara as we chugged by blowing the deep
throated whistle of the WP/P as we passed by at a decent speed and curved left
away towards Kharagpur on South Eastern Railway.

Jishnu.

--
Jishnu Mukerji
Systems Architect
Open Systems Software Division

Email: jis@fpk.email Hewlett-Packard New Jersey Labs
Tel: +1 973 443 7528 MS D283, 180 Park Ave., Bldg. 103
Fax: +1 973 443 7602 Florham Park, NJ 07932-9998, USA

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