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From: manish <manish@hogpa.email

Subject: Re: Freight operations

Date: 18 Jul 1994 10:51:00 -0500


Regarding this discussion, I have a question. What is the deal
with the freight wagons lying defunct at almost every station
in the country? Has there ever been a plan to just get rid of
those or are they going to be fossilized on the tracks?
And what really happens that causes these wagons to be left out?
Is it some functional defect that is too expensive to fix or
just unclaimed freight?

Manish

From: Jim Hubbard <jim.hubbard@pobox.email

Subject: Re: Steam Trains again!

Date: 19 Jul 1994 00:29:00 -0500


manish@hogpa.email wrote in "re: Steam Trains again!":

>...
>Misc: There is indeed a steam loco preservation society in India.
>And I think it is based in Delhi. There is a railway museum in
>Delhi. Your best bet is to get more info from them about this
>society and its activities.
>...

Here are further details of the railway museum, as mentioned in the
India travel guide published in June 1990 by Lonely Planet (pages 124
and 125) :

"Fortunately representatives of most major designs have been preserved
in the Rail Transport Museum at Shantipath, New Delhi, near the
Chanakyapuri diplomatic enclave. Locomotives from all three gauges have
been beautifully restored, many in their original railway company
colours. Amongst those on show is the oldest surviving engine in India,
built in 1855, and a diminutive two-foot-gauge loco from Darjeeling,
making a stark contrast beside a 234-ton Beyer Garratt locomotive."


Regards,

Jim.
( Internet: jim.hubbard@pobox.email )

From: S Pai <Pai>>

Subject: Train accident in UP

Date: 21 Jul 1994 14:40:00 -0500


Just saw this on the net.

-Satish

------------------------------------------------------------

From: <bajwa@asd.email News 7/20/94 part 1 of 2

07/20 0044 SEVEN KILLED, 30 INJURED IN INDIAN TRAIN ACCIDENT

NEW DELHI, July 20 (Reuter) - A train derailed in the northern Indian
state of Uttar Pradesh on Wednesday, killing seven people and injuring 30,
the United News of India said.
The train, travelling to Amritsar in northern Punjab state, went off
the tracks about 40 km (25 miles) from Moradabad, it said.
The cause of the accident was being investigated and sabotage had not
been ruled out, railway officials were quoted as saying.

REUTER

From: S Pai <Pai>>

Subject: BR driver's anecdote about IR

Date: 21 Jul 1994 14:49:00 -0500


One of the posters on rec.railroad (Lord Blackadder) narrates the following:

I was travelling on an intercity train between Wolverhampton and Birmingham
and heard this story from a BR train driver whose name I have unfortunately
forgotten. This was in March of this year I think, though the story itself
dates from the summer of 1993.

Sometime last year a BR driver was on holiday on the Indian sub-continent.
His train was very substantially delayed at some wayside station. When the
train that they were waiting for turned up having discovered that it had
broken down, it was some surprise for this driver to find that the guy who
had fixed it (who was also a BR driver.....) was a friend of his that he had
not seen for many years!!! The subsequent reunion was by the account that I
heard ecstatic! Either way the Indians decided that these men should get the
5-star treatment and of course the train was further delayed...

My question -- how come British Rail drivers are found fixing trains in India?

-Satish

From: S Pai <Pai>>

Subject: Ooty train

Date: 21 Jul 1994 15:02:00 -0500


Here is a snippet from a description of a journey in India, from The Times
(London) of July 16. The article was a travelogue of some sort (a bit long,
and rather interesting).

-Satish

------------------------------------------------------------

As the crow flies, Ooty to Mettuppalaiyam is about 30 miles, but
the drop to the valley floor of between two and three thousand feet
makes the delightful mountain railway journey much longer. It takes
three to four hours and the train rarely exceeds 15mph. On the steeper
gradients, of up to 1 in 12, it is held on by a rack and pinion. The
ancient steam locomotive makes frequent stops for water at trackside
hamlets, and is prone to set the scrubby undergrowth alight. Views
down the valleys from the open carriages are spectacular, though the
atmosphere becomes increasingly oppressive during the descent.

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@summit.email

Subject: Re: Train accident in UP

Date: 21 Jul 1994 15:11:00 -0500


Speaking of accidents on Indian Railways, I just got my hands on this
neato book called "The Indian Railways Year Book 1992-93". Here are some
accident statistics for Indian Railways from it for that one year period
(April 1, 1992 - March 31, 1993):

Casualties 467
Deaths 96
Collisions 50
Derailments 414
Level Xing Accidents 51
Fires on Trains 9
Casualties per Million Passenger Miles* ~.003
Deaths per Million Passenger Miles* ~.0005

*Figures converted from Passenger Kms.

Jishnu.

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@summit.email

Subject: Delhi to Europe via Iran/CIS

Date: 21 Jul 1994 15:48:00 -0500


As I had promised sometime back, here is a possible routing for
travelling from India to Europe through Iran and CIS:

Day 0 d Delhi
Day 1 a Amritsar, d Amritsar, [ cross into Pakistan at Atari ] a Lahore,
d Lahore
Day 2 a Rohri, d Rohri
Day 3 a Quetta d Quetta
Day 4 [ cross into Iran @ Kuhi Taftan(?) ], a Zahedan (weekly train)
Day 5 d Zahedan(bus), a Kerman(bus),
Day 6 d Kerman
Day 7 a Tehran d Tehran
Day 8 a Tabriz, d Tabriz (bus), a Djulfa-Iran(bus), d Djulfa-Iran
(bi-weekly train)
[ cross into CIS-Azerbaijan? at Djulfa ]
Day 9 a Baku, d Baku
[ cross into CIS-Ukraine?]
Day 10 a Rostov
Day 11 d Rostov
Day 12 a Kiev, d Kiev
Day 13 pass through Brest [ CIS-Ukraine to Poland] , Warsaw,
[ Poland to Germany ] Frankfurt-Oder & Berlin
Day 14 a [Germany to Belgium ] Brussels

It should be quite a challenge getting a few of the visas that one would
need to make this trip.

I am still curious about what route the proposed/dreamt of rail link
through Afghanistan would take. Is it reasonable to assume that it will
end near Termez in CIS? Of course it is possible to get from Termez to
Europe by rail all the way.

While thinking about rail links, has anyone thought about possibilities
in the area of rail links from East India to China or Myanmar(Burma)?

Jishnu.

From: S Pai <Pai>>

Subject: Rajdhani

Date: 21 Jul 1994 23:09:00 -0500


This was intended to be posted to the list, I believe.

-Satish

------------------------------------------------------------

From: Narendran Arcot - MECE/F93 <narcot@acs.email
Date: Thu, 21 Jul 1994 07:56:03 -0400 (EDT)

I've never travelled in a RAJDHANI, and was wondering if anyone could
fill me in some information such as:

1, What is the maximum cruising speed?
2, Are there any differences between engines of the Rajdhani as opposed
to those of other express trains (with regards to power output)?
3, How about the service offered for the passengers, anything special?
4, Are RAJDHANIs used only for long haul journeys?
5, How many are there operating, which are they?
6, What is the difference between a RAJDHANI and a SHATABDI?

There was a posting made recently in soc.culture.tamil and
soc.culture.karnataka about a new train in the MADRAS-BANGALORE sector.
Here it is:
publicity around it. First of all, it takes 5 hours, that is 10 minutes
less than Lalbagh express, which has one 3 minute stop at Katpadi. They
have used the name Shatabdi express, a name used by several other trains,
example Delhi-Chandigarh etc. They include a meal for Rs 100(obligatory),
which is not worth half the price. ***

My questions are: What are the timings of this train and is it faster
than the others?

From: jayakris <jayakris@saathi.email

Subject: Shatabdi Express Flagged off

Date: 22 Jul 1994 23:43:00 -0500


SHATABADI

New Shatabdi Express for Chandigarh-Delhi flagged off
CHANDIGARH, July 22 ( PTI) The Chandigarh- New Delhi
2012 down Shatabdi express was flagged off by the Chief
Ministers of Punjab and Haryana, Mr Beant Singh, and Mr Bhajan
Lal, here amidst tight security yesterday.
With this, Chandigarh becomes the first city in the
country to be linked to New Delhi by two Shatabdi express
trains daily, except on Sundays.
The first Shatabdi between Kalka-Chandigarh -New Delhi
was introduced on November 14, 1989. pti aka akl sb

_____________________________________________________________________________
Jayakrishnan.B Email: jayakris@saathi.email
National Centre for Software Technology Fax : +91 (22) 621 0139
Gulmohar Cross Road No. 9 Phone: +91 (22) 620 1606
Juhu, Bombay 400 049, INDIA Telex: +81 (11) 78260 NCST IN
______________________________________________________________________________


My name is Annie Key. Ouch! Why are you hitting me?!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@summit.email

Subject: Re: Shatabdi Express Flagged off

Date: 22 Jul 1994 10:15:00 -0500


Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 22-Jul-94 Shatabdi Express Flagged off
jayakris@saathi.email (1162*)

> >From PTI news service..


> shatabadi
> new shatabdi express for chandigarh-delhi flagged off
> chandigarh, july 22 ( pti) the chandigarh- new delhi
> 2012 down shatabdi express was flagged off by the chief
> ministers of punjab and haryana, mr beant singh, and mr bhajan
> lal, here amidst tight security yesterday.
> with this, chandigarh becomes the first city in the
> country to be linked to new delhi by two shatabdi express
> trains daily, except on sundays.
> the first shatabdi between kalka-chandigarh -new delhi
> was introduced on november 14, 1989. pti aka akl sb

Any info on its schedule? Presumably its schedule complements that of
the other Shatabdi, i.e. it leaves Chandigarh in late afternoon for New
Delhi, and leaves New Delhi early morning for Chandigarh. Does it run
non-stop New Delhi to Chandigarh, or does it stop at Ambala Cant. like
the other Shatabdi? Curious to know since I am sure I will get a chance
to ride it in Feb.

Thanks.

Jishnu.

From: jayakris <jayakris@saathi.email

Subject: MG to BG Conversion

Date: 23 Jul 1994 05:38:00 -0500


Source : PTI news service

BOMBAY, July 20 (PTI) Traffic on the Miraj-Londhe rail
section would be re-organised with effect from August 16 next
as work would commence on conversion of tracks from metre
gauge to broad guage.
The Vasco-Miraj Goa express stands cancelled. The
Vasco-Miraj Mandvi express would stand cancelled between
Londhe and Miraj, but would operate through to Gadag as the
Vasco-Gadag express, a Central Railway release said here.
Dharmavaram-Miraj Kittur express and Hubli-Miraj
Mahalakshmi express would be cancelled between Londhe and
Miraj. The Londhe-Miraj passenger will be cancelled fully. The
Nizamuddin-Miraj Goa express would be extended to Kolhapur for
convenience of passengers who could then travel by road from
Kolhapur to Belgaum or to Vasco.
The passengers bound for destinations beyond Miraj
towards Vasco by the metre guage link express would not be
issued tickets from August 16, the release added. pti cds ars

_____________________________________________________________________________
Jayakrishnan.B Email: jayakris@saathi.email
National Centre for Software Technology Fax : +91 (22) 621 0139
Gulmohar Cross Road No. 9 Phone: +91 (22) 620 1606
Juhu, Bombay 400 049, INDIA Telex: +81 (11) 78260 NCST IN
______________________________________________________________________________


My name is Annie Key. Ouch! Why are you hitting me?!

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: New Lines and Bombay

Date: 22 Jul 1994 10:17:00 -0500


I cannot help but note the exciting new possibilities for Bombay
resulting from this flurry of new lines, being the unbiased IR
observer :-).

1. Bombay-Goa-Mangalore-Cochin-Trivandrum-Kanniyakumari (KONKAN RAIL)

2. Bombay-Pune-Miraj-Belgaum-Londhe-Bangalore-Mysore (MG->BG)

This will segregate the lines from Bombay to the major cities of the
South into the 3 distinct trunk routes - the existing line via
Pune-Wadi-Reningunta for A.P./T.N. and (1) and (2) for Kerala and
Karnataka repectively. Then maybe, just maybe, Bombay will get
presitigious SF trains to the south, like the ones from NDLS.

3. Bombay-Vadodara-Ahmadabad-Jaipur/Udaipur/Jodhpur

New trains to Rajasthan!

4. Bombay-Delhi would have 4 options:

i. Bombay-Vadodara-Ratlam-Delhi 1384 kms
ii. Bombay-Vadodara-Ahmadabad-Ajmer-Jaipur-Delhi 1426 kms
iii. Bombay-Vadodara-Ahmadabad-Ajmer-Ringus-Delhi 1361 kms
iv. Bombay-Bhusaval-Itarsi-Bhopal-Delhi 1548 kms

I was surprised to note that that 4(iii) - the route via the Ringus
chord - is actually shorter that the WR main line! Anyway, hopefully,
one can expect more SF's on these routes, and one can also think of
all kinds of permutations/combinations between (1), (2), (3) and (4)
for trains from North to South.

If all this comes into being, I think they will have to seriously
consider making the suburban sections on both WR and CR 6-track with
a dedicated pair of tracks for thru-trains, because these many through
trains are bound to disrupt the suburban schedule quite badly in the
4-track scheme.

Bottom Line: Some interesting stuff comin' up!

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: Sridhar Venkataraman <sridhar@asuvax.email

Subject: Re: some more train possibilities

Date: 22 Jul 1994 08:15:00 -0500


On Fri, 22 Jul 1994, S. Kumar wrote:

> Points north/Madras-Erode-Madurai-Tirunelveli-Kanniyakumari
>
> (Significantly shorter than via the present route via Coimbatore
> and Ernakulam to K'kumari. The BG line is operational)

There is a already a Madras-Nagercoil express (1993 IR guide) running on
the route you indicate above.

Sridhar.

From: S. Kumar <kumar@quandsn.email

Subject: some more train possibilities

Date: 22 Jul 1994 10:16:00 -0500


Continuing on Pushkar's theme here are some more possible future
train routes:

Delhi-Jaipur-Ajmer-Indore-Khandwa-Akola-Purna-Secunderabad-points
south.

(Note that a MG express currently runs between Jaipur and
Secunderabad/Kacheguda.)


Bombay-Manmad-Purna-Secunderabad

(Conversion of Manmad-S'bad to BG should be near completion)

Points north/Madras-Erode-Madurai-Tirunelveli-Kanniyakumari

(Significantly shorter than via the present route via Coimbatore
and Ernakulam to K'kumari. The BG line is operational)


Kashi-Rameswaram "Pilgrimage Express"
via Gaya-Ranchi-Jharsuguda-Vizianagarm-Vizag-Vijayawada-Madras-
Trichy

(Note: Madras-Trichy BG conversion is going on and Trichy-
Rameswaram is slated to be BG by the turn of the century.)



Howrah-Nagpur-Manmad-Dhaund-Pune-Ratnagiri-Goa (Madgaon?)

(will use Konkan Railway).

Kumar

From: Pushkar Apte <apte@spdc.email

Subject: Re: some more train possibilities

Date: 22 Jul 1994 12:16:00 -0500



> On Fri, 22 Jul 1994, S. Kumar wrote:
>
> > Points north/Madras-Erode-Madurai-Tirunelveli-Kanniyakumari
> >
> > (Significantly shorter than via the present route via Coimbatore
> > and Ernakulam to K'kumari. The BG line is operational)
>
> There is a already a Madras-Nagercoil express (1993 IR guide) running on
> the route you indicate above.
>
> Sridhar.
>

A while ago I had checked the possible times for a Bombay-Kanniyakumari
train vis Krishnarajpuram and Erode-Madurai-Nagercoil. My conclusion
was that such a train can make the journey in ~33 hrs, cutting a
whopping 14 hours off the existing Bombay-Kanniyakumari Exp.

Regards,
Pushkar
-------

From: S Pai <Pai>>

Subject: Re: Delhi to Europe via Iran/CIS

Date: 23 Jul 1994 12:49:00 -0500


Jishnu wrote:

>> As I had promised sometime back, here is a possible routing for
>> travelling from India to Europe through Iran and CIS:

[stuff deleted]

>> Day 8 a Tabriz, d Tabriz (bus), a Djulfa-Iran(bus), d Djulfa-Iran
>> (bi-weekly train)
>> [ cross into CIS-Azerbaijan? at Djulfa ]

[more stuff deleted]

There will soon be some other possibilities for going from Iran to CIS
countries.

1. Work has begun on the Iran -- Turkmenistan link at Lotfabad in northern
Iran (a few km of tracks to join the two systems, and some sidings, etc. for
the customs office there).

2. There is a proposal to connect Iran to the trans-Eurasian rail network of
the former USSR by constructing a link from Mashhad in Iran via Sarakhs on the
Iran-Turkmenistan border into the CIS.

3. Some British and other construction firms have expressed interest in the
"London to Hong Kong by train" scheme proposed by Kazakhstan, involving
upgrading tracks in some of the CIS states, and linking through Iran. I am
intrigued by a statement in the article I read, that "continuous track already
exists except for a short link in Iran". What about on the eastern side of
India (presumably they did mean a route going through India), I wonder -- I
don't think there are any continuous tracks going into southern China??

>> While thinking about rail links, has anyone thought about possibilities
>> in the area of rail links from East India to China or Myanmar(Burma)?

There is strong interest in Thailand/Vietnam/etc. to have a good rail network
linking all the countries in the region. Plans exist to link Yangon (Rangoon),
Bangkok, Phnom Penh, and Ho Chi Minh City by rail. Also another proposed link
from Bangkok to Vientiane, on to Kunming or Hanoi and from there into China to
Beijing and to connect with the Trans-Siberian railway. In Myanmar (Burma)
there is already regular train service between Mandalay and Yangon, including
luxury express trains. And finally, India and Myanmar recently signed some
agreements on stepping up border trade.

In light of all this, I'd guess that early next century it shouldn't be too
difficult to go by train from India and connect to all sorts of places to the
east and southeast.

-Satish

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@summit.email

Subject: Re: Delhi to Europe via Iran/CIS

Date: 24 Jul 1994 12:48:00 -0500


Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 23-Jul-94 Re: Delhi to Europe via Ira.. A
S Pai@CS.Email (2226*)

> 3. Some British and other construction firms have expressed interest in the
> "London to Hong Kong by train" scheme proposed by Kazakhstan, involving
> upgrading tracks in some of the CIS states, and linking through Iran. I am
> intrigued by a statement in the article I read, that "continuous track already
> exists except for a short link in Iran". What about on the eastern side of
> India (presumably they did mean a route going through India), I wonder -- I
> don't think there are any continuous tracks going into southern China??

That bit about continuous track is intriguing. Of course the short bit
in Iran that is being alluded to is probably the Kerman - Zahedan bit,
that is already under construction. But that does not address the rather
long bit of rail that is missing between India and China or India and
Myanmar, and then Myanmar and Thailand, and etc.

Of course one can already travel by rail from London to Hongkong along
the routing London - Brussels - Warsaw - Moscow - Ulan Bator - Beijing -
Hongkong, but clearly that does not travel through Iran.

Jishnu.

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re: Shatabdi Express Flagged off

Date: 26 Jul 1994 10:53:00 -0500


> Any info on its schedule? Presumably its schedule complements that of
> the other Shatabdi, i.e. it leaves Chandigarh in late afternoon for New
> Delhi, and leaves New Delhi early morning for Chandigarh. Does it run
> non-stop New Delhi to Chandigarh, or does it stop at Ambala Cant. like
> the other Shatabdi? Curious to know since I am sure I will get a chance

I still haven't been able to get a copy of the latest "trains at
a glance." But what I remember from the newspaper ad, it is a non-stop
between NDLS and Chandigarh. It leaves ND at 10:00 AM approx., reaches
there at 1:00 PM, leave there at 2:00 PM and reaches ND at 5:00 PM.
(But I am not 100% sure.)

-dheeraj

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re: New Lines and Bombay

Date: 26 Jul 1994 11:16:00 -0500


> If all this comes into being, I think they will have to seriously
> consider making the suburban sections on both WR and CR 6-track with
> a dedicated pair of tracks for thru-trains, because these many through
> trains are bound to disrupt the suburban schedule quite badly in the
> 4-track scheme.

Actually, there is a similar serious problem in Delhi. The Delhi
Government has been pressurizing the railways to start a 15-minute
service on the Ring-railway. But Railways say that cannot increase
any service on the Patel Nagar - New Delhi - Nizammuddin stretch.
The best they can do is to connect Nzammuddin with Patel Nagar
via Delhi avoiding line (half of Ring Railway). That of course
is completely useless from the point of view of taking people off
the roads.

One thing I don't understand is if they can have a 2-minute service
in suburban Bombay with just 4 tracks along with long-distance traffic
and goods traffic, why they can't have a 15-minute service on 4 tracks
in Delhi.

-dheeraj

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@iitk.email

Subject: Re:Fw: [Tom Standage] Steam Trains again!

Date: 26 Jul 1994 12:17:00 -0500


> 1. Timing

I would suggest that you avoid September also. It is still raining
in several parts of the country then. The real tourist-season is
from Nov. till Feb., may be March, but I think October should be
fine as well.

> 2. Itinerary

> Whenever I do make the trip, my intention is to get an Indrail pass - not
> because it saves money or anything, but because it saves hassle and lets me

Do realize that Indrail is not as convenient as Eurail pass, since in
India, you do have to get reservations for trains in advance. The
Indrail pass is useful only to the extent that there is a foreign
tourist quota in trains for which you become eligible if you have a
pass, and in a few big cities, there may be a separate reservation
counter for foreigners. And unlike Eurail pass, it does not save you
money at all.

> 3. Clearance

> Is it worth approaching the authorities? Will I need any clearance to
> photograph trains (ie do they count as military installations like they do
> in some countries)? Is there any advantage to be gained from some kind of
> official endorsement, or will it not make any difference at ground level?

I have never been hassled by anyone for taking pictures of trains.
Most of the time, the driver or the guard, if they are in the picture,
like it very much, but I have seen somebody being questioned for
taking a picture (probably some politician was expected, so the
secutiry might have been tighter). My experience should not serve as
any guideline, since attitudes of secutiry people may be difference
towards a foreigner.

-dheeraj

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