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From: VIJAYB <VIJAYB@PK705VMG.EMAIL

Subject: Steam v/s diesel v/s electric - Part II

Date: 19 Jun 1992 17:00:00 -0500


Hi Folks,
Continuing from where I left off.....

Adhesion (ratio of tractive effort to weight over wheels beyond which slipping
-------- takes place)
steam :- 0.20 to 0.25. Low b'coz the torque is not uniform
diesel:- 0.25 electric transmission. 0.33 hydraulic transmission
electric:- 0.25 DC. 0.35 AC b'coz each driving wheel has a separate circuit
and slipping of one wheel does not affect the others.

Power weight ratio
------------------
steam:- 140-180 lbs. per hp diesel:- 100 lbs/hp elec.:- 50 lbs/hp

Acceleration
------------
Steam:- Lower than others up to 30-45 mph range
Highest acceleration beyond these speeds
Diesel:-Experiment carried out with the same train showed
Steam loco: took 2 1/2 mts. to attain 45 mph covering 1 mile
Diesel loco: took 1 1/2 mts. to attain 45 mph covering 1 mile
Elec:-Better than diesel on grades b'coz of high overload capacity

Track riding
------------
Steam:- High center of gravity [adversely affects stability]
diesel:- unexplainable damage to track
elec:- stable

Power requirements on line
---------------------------
steam:-watering, de-ashing and coaling
diesel:-fuelling (about 1/8 quantity as compared to coal). Intervals for
oiling 700-1000 miles.
elec:-Nil

Cost and life of loco
---------------------
steam:- (WG type) Rs. 8 lakhs, 40 yrs.
diesel:- Rs. 60 lakhs. Life:- engine 20 yrs. (BG)
other parts 40 yrs.
elec:-Rs. 50-60 lakhs. 40 yrs.
[These figures are outdated (by atleast 10 yrs.)]

Shed arrangement
----------------
steam:-general service and boiler maintenance - about 70 hrs. a month. Turning
arrangements reqd.
diesel:-about 20 hrs. a month. Turning arrangement generally not necessary.
Shed is simpler than for steam locos
elec:-similar to diesels

Other installations
-------------------
steam:-watering and cleaning. Fire arrangements.
diesel:-Fueling arrangement (very few as this is done in sheds)
elec:-distribution and stepping down of supply: Substations, overhead equip.,..

Transport of fuel
-----------------
steam:- heavy movement of coal; practically one out of every four wagons of
coal loaded is for use by the railways
diesel:- oil about 1/8 in quantity, when compared to coal
elec:- coal may have to be transported for feedng thermal power stations

Availability
------------
steam:-12 hrs. Monthly Km. upto 8000 on single lines, upto 9500 on double
lines (Goods traffic)
diesel:-18 hrs. a day. 16000 kms. monthly
elec:- 20 hrs. a day. 16000 kms. and more

Smoke Nuisance and Hazard
-------------------------
steam:- both exist
diesel:- some smoke nuisance but less
elec:- elimination of smoke nuisance makes this type of traction a very
attractive proposition for cities

Suitability
-----------
steam:- where traffic density is not heavy
availability and low cost of coal
availability of water
diesel:-for shunting operations
where cost of coal is high and requires transportation over long
distances
problems associated with water (availability, etc.)
as an intermediate stage between steam operation and electrification
elec:- for suburban sections
where there are heavy grades (Ghat sections)
density of traffic above a certain level depending on the relative
costs of loco fuel and fixed installations

That's all for now. Will be back next week. Have a nice week-end.

Regards,
Vijay

From: C. S. Sudarshana Bhat <B536HIND@UTARLVM1.EMAIL

Subject: I am buried under the avalanche of IRFCA-mails ;-)

Date: 21 Jun 1992 22:53:00 -0500


What a time you-all took to flood my mailbox with email! I was away for
the week, and was totally flabbergasted to find >50 emails from IRFCA
*alone*! Keep it up, doods.

Let me start a discussion on a topic which hasn't been mentioned by
IRFCA-ites, and that is trains on postage stamps. Offhand, I can mention
only these: the 0.10 (and '10') steam locomotive, the set of four
engines (0.25, 0.50, 1.00 and 2.00 if memory serves me right!), the
Darjeeling train, there was one shown on an INPEX [INdian (?) Postal
EXhibition] stamp (am not quite sure). There *must* have been more. Could
anyone fill in on the rest? Also, I used to have a *very* pretty Tanzanian
stamp showing a train crossing the Zambesi river [which I subsequently
lost :-(]. Any other 'foreign' (including the USA!) stamps worth mentioning?
Wonder why postal services don't issue more stamps commemorating the new
trains. Showing, say, the Deccan Queen (whatever colour she is now!)
meandering through the Western Ghats would be spectacular, wouldn't it?

Ciao.
Sudarshana.

From: C. S. Sudarshana Bhat <B536HIND@UTARLVM1.EMAIL

Subject: Existing Narrow Gauge Services

Date: 22 Jun 1992 11:20:00 -0500


I think that Ranchi-Lohardaga (in Bihar) has not been mentioned yet. It
is a 63 km route, and the train used to be hauled by a steam loco up
until 1988 [So, I don't *really* know if it *still* exists or not :-(].

Ciao.
Sudarshana.

PS: Harsh Potlapalli, are you still on IRFCA? Have you been to Ranchi
recently?

From: Ajai Banarji <banarji@unixg.email

Subject:

Date: 22 Jun 1992 11:51:00 -0500


INDIAN RAILWAYS ON STAMPS

Here are a few examples:
Centenary of Indian Railways in 1953-2 stamps. One showed a WP along
an engine of 1853.
A set of 4 stamps in the 1970s
The 10p stamp of the 1960s with an electric loco.
Another small stamp of the 1950s-60s showing Chittaranjan
A set of 4 stamps celebrating the 100th anniversary of the SER (and
its predecessor the BNR) in the mid-80s
The centenary of the Darjeeling line -in the early 80s

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject:

Date: 23 Jun 1992 12:36:00 -0500


Hello friends!Now is the time for all good wo/men[????]to come to the aid of the
party.A friend of mine who was also a timetable buff like me has challenged
me that average speed [not cruising speed but distance/total time] of "superfast
trains" [where you pay a surcharge] is "90ka aspas."If India has not changed
drastically since I came here last year the only trains which have that speed
are the Shatabdi genre of trains.

He was particularly insistent that the BMB-DLI rajdhani express covers 1620km in
16 hours .The last timetable I had if I remember said 1388 km in 16.5 hours.That
comes to 84km/hr.

quoting from memory ,some of the well known train-statistics:

rajdhani bmb-dli 1388 16:30
rajdhani cal-dli 1454 17:15
jammu-tawi-bmb ~1900 32
geetanjali cal-bmb 1968 32:20
coromandal cal-mds 1661 26:30
t.n. dli-mds 2189 ~32
a.p. dli-sbd 1440 24

This is all from memory so a person who has the latest timetable could help.
Come-on guys this may even become a new thread!

Regards,siddhartha.

From: VIJAYB <VIJAYB@PK705VMG.EMAIL

Subject: Re: please settle a debate!!

Date: 23 Jun 1992 13:07:00 -0500


I dug some relevant stuff from past IRFCA mail regarding speeds of superfast
trains. Will have to check back on the latest time-table to get the exact
schedules.
=========================
>From Pushkar:-
Just out of curiosity, I computed the average speeds of the fastest
non-Rajdhani/Shatabdi superfast trains that connect the nation's
metros. The results were as follows:

Gitanjali -> 59.63 kmph
Corromondel -> 61.62
T.N. -> 65.91
BCT-JAT Superfast -> 68.26 (Between BCT-NDLS)
Chennai -> 53.33
Kalka Mail -> 57.83 (Between HWH-NDLS)

The Kalka Mail does not really belong in this band, but surprisingly it
is the next fastest train after the Raj for the full New-Delhi Howrah
run. The BCT-JAT comes out as the fastest and the Chennai as the
slowest, the latter obviously badly hit by the BBVT-MAS single-line.
These numbers include all stops, but when I eliminated all stoppage
times and subtracted additional 5 minutes for slowing down and
accelerating per stop, the spped of the BCT-JAT improved to only 73.31, while
the T.N. improved to 69.23 - the average improvement seems to be in the
range of 4 kmph when one eliminates all stoppages: NOT MUCH.
===============================================================
>From Vijay:-
Earlier, Pushkar had sent a very interesting note on the avg. speeds of
various trains connecting the four metropolitan cities. This prompted me to
find out the avg. commercial speeds of the Shatabdi and Rajdhani exps:-

Bhopal Shatabdi - 90.94 kmph
Bombay Rajdhani - 82.83 "
Delhi Rajdhani - 81.37 "
Kanpur Shatabdi - 77.01 "
Kalka Shatabdi - 59.89 "


The Kanpur Shatabdi is quite fast in the Delhi-Kanpur section (~87 kmph.) but
slows down to a pathetic 50 kmph. in the largely single-line, unelectrified,
Kanpur-Lucknow stretch. Similar is the case with the Kalka Shatabdi which
travels at ~80 kmph. between N.Delhi and Ambala Cant., but is reduced to a
miserable 50 kmph. train during the rest of the journey.

...........
...........

The Gitanjali, Coromandel, Tamilnadu and Jammu Tawi exps. have been slowed
down during the past decade or so, with the result that their avg. speeds have
dropped down. Moreover, additional halts have appeared.

Gitanjali - used to cover the 1968 km. Bombay-Howrah route in about 29 hrs.
commercical speed -> 67.86 kmph.

Coromandel - used to cover the 1664 km. Howrah-Madras route in about 25 hrs.
comm. speed -> 66.56 kmph.

Tamilnadu - used to have a comm. speed of ~70.48 kmph. (would cover the 2185 km.
Delhi-Madras route in about 31 hrs.)

Jammu Tawi - used to have a comm. speed of ~74.81 kmph. between Bombay and Delhi
(would cover 1384 kms. in about 18 1/2 hrs.)

So, one can see that the comm. speeds have decreased by about 5-7 kmph.
=====================

Vijay

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: trains and speeds

Date: 23 Jun 1992 14:46:00 -0500


Thanks very much to pushkar and vijay for there unstinted support!However in this context some points have been also raised which might require some further
clarification.

Pushkar says
The G.T., Paschim Exp/Frontier Mail, are
ideal for this No. 2 role, but such trains do not exist for N.
Delhi-Howrah; Bombay-Howrah; where the drop from the
Raj, and the Gitanjali is directly to the Kalka Mail and the Howrah
Mail respectively.

Howrah-delhi route for a long time had the fastest trains in the country.
When rajdhani was first started it used to cover 1445km in 15:45 the average
speed being 91.75km/hr. At that time [70's] kalka mail used to traverse
the same distance in 21:20 hrs. [67.7 km/hr].The ac deluxe used to run
[the via patna one ] 1557 km in 23:45 [65.6 km/hr].All these trains were
started as pairs with the bombay -delhi trains but were much faster.The line
was also electrified in 1976 some 12 years before electrification of the
BMB-DLI line.

However with time the speeds have dramatically fallen as documented by vijay.
rajdhani ,kalka and ac deluxe now cover the distance in 17:15,24:30 and 26
hrs respectively.all slowed up to respectively 81,58,56.6 km/hr.On the other
hand the bombay trains have maintained their old speeds .

The reasons given by the railways is several. One is the HWH-DLI track is
simply oversaturated with superfast trains.The BMB-DLI track carries only
six superfasts [4 BMB-DLI,BMB-IND,BMB-Gandhinagar] while the eastern track
runs amuck:Shatabdi,Prayag,Neelachal,North-east,Tinsukia mail,Magadh,Vidisha
Chambal,Gomti.........almost every place is point-to-point connected with
Delhi.All have very few stoppages .So the trains to Howrah which have considerably more number of stoppages have to be slowed down.If you just look at the
Northern Railway timetable the DLI-Mughalsarai section seems to be never
ending.

The other is the huge goods movement in that belt mainly coal.One major reason
of slowing down rajdhani apparently is that it is not safe enough given the
amount of goods transport[Also IR has a high priority on goods transport as it is far far more profitable and passenger trains especially superfast ones are
loss-makers.]

However this slowing down process as mentioned by vijay is really sad.When the
gitanjali was first started it covered BMB-HWH in 29 hrs.The bombay mail
used to take 32 hrs[60.5 km/hr!]Now in ten years their speeds have fallen to
32hrs/36hrs respectively.We seem to be going back instead of stepping forward.
And I nostalgically remember the HimGiri exp [corresponding to BMB-JAT] which
used to cover HWH-JAT [2170] in 29 hrs [69.9 km/hr !]But now this has dropped
to a miserable 54km/hr and covers in 38 hrs!!

Offcourse these are only timetable statistics.In this case two memorable but
cliched jokes come to my mind.One was a bengali child -adventure where one
boy explains to other why it is not illogical for the train concerned to
leave earlier than scheduled.He says "Shedin ekta train shat
ghanta deri korey elo ar eta shat minute agey chartey parbey na?"-That day
a train came in seven hours late and you say that this cannot leave seven
minutes earlier?
The other one was in france[or was it NANDURBAR] .The would-be passenger was quite unhurried expecting the train to come in late as usual.On coming to the
platform however imagine his chagrin on being informed that the train had
left on the dot;till a kindhearted porter explained:the train was actually
twentyfour hours late.

Apologies for the cliches.Bye siddhartha.

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@usl.email

Subject: A possible train ride

Date: 23 Jun 1992 19:46:00 -0500


I was paging through various Thomas Cook Time Tables of recent vintage
and decided to put together a hypothetical train trip from Paris to
Calcutta by train. The results of my thought experiment were as follows:

Note that it uses an unusual route because I did not want to ride the
ferry across Lake Van in Turkey, while getting sabotaged by Kurds. I
chose to get sabotaged by the Azeris and Armenians near Caspian Sea
instead, just to have the pleasure of riding rails all the way!

Station Day Time Comments

Paris Gare du Nord d 1 16:37 Est-Ouest Exp.
Achen d 1 21:50 London section joins here
Koln a 1 22:35
d 1 22:40
Hamm Hbf. a 2 00:08
d 2 00:28
Berlin Hbf. d 2 06:32
Warszawa Cent. d 2 16:10
Brest d 2 23:04
Moskva a 3 15:17 end of Est-Ouest Exp.
d 3 19:05 some unnamed Russian train
Kharkov d 4 06:24
Baku d 4 17:35
Djulfa d 5 09:33
Djulfa (Iran) a 5 13:40 change trains
d 5 16:40
Tehran a 6 11:00 change trains
d 6 14:35
Kerman a 7 08:50

A very dusty and bumpy long bus ride from Kerman to Kuhi Taftan

Kuhi Taftan d 8 15:15 now we are on Broad Gauge!
Quetta a 9 10:10 change trains
d 9 15:55
Rohri a 10 12:30 change trains
d 10 18:05
Lahore a 11 07:30 change trains
d 11 11:30
Amritsar a 11 15:00 change trains
d 11 20:45 you know which train!
Nai Dilli a 12 08:15 change trains
d 12 17:15 Howrah Rajdhani
Kolkata Haora a 13 11:00

To go on from there:
Kolkata Sealda d 14 07:00
Gede a 14 10:58 walk across the border
Chuadanga d 14 16:57 and catch train on other side
Ishurdi a 14 18:15 change trains
d 15 07:35
Shirajgonj a 15 09:55
d 15 10:50 ferry
Jogonnath a 15 14:50
d 16 00:55 train
Chatgna a 16 16:50
(Chittagong)
Well, if we could get the Pakistanis to run a decent train from Kuhi
Taftan to Lahore then things could be speeded up considerably. Also the
completion of the Kerman - Zahedan link could save a considerable amount
of time. Connections in Bangladesh are also horrendous. In India, I
guess I could have gone straight from Amritsar to Calcutta, but I
decided to hit New Delhi on the way, just to get onto a Rajdhani.

With the end of the cold war between India and China (if and when it
really comes to pass), it would be fun considering the construction of a
rail link from Assam to somewhere in China. I have a lot of fun planning
alignments and such for such imaginary rail links. Actually, much to my
satisfaction, the Kerman Zahedan link is very close to the alignment
that I had dreamed up using a topographic map of Iran many years ago!

Jishnu.

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: A possible train ride

Date: 24 Jun 1992 11:37:00 -0500


Jishnu Mukherjee's article is interesting.Some points may be noted if we want to
make it even more exotic.

1]It is interesting that any connection from paris/london has to travel thru'
the balkans ,armenia/turkey.Now all this is quite risky as this region shows
no sign of letting up in violence in the near future.[all this ramblings above is just to justify my ramblings below].

>From Paris lets kick-off our jouney with the paris/marseilles marvel at 300km/hr
[the question may be academic but is it going fast or just flying low?When I
was a kid I have travelled DumDummmm-Silchar in dakotas that used to fly at
350 km/hr. As an aside did you know that sometimes those planes ran on kerosene]
Leaving the torrential Rhone behind us we cross the Iberian Alps and reach land's end at Gibraltar.
The rail/road bridge across Gibraltar is scheduled to open by 1997.[for the
impatient ,the present journey can be conducted by ferry].After that we can
roll along to Egypt and across to sinai[now with Likud losing, this place
might actually turn peacefull].We go north to lebanon and turn south into
Iraq.As I do not have a thomas cook I cannot give specific timings but this
journey thru' French riveria-barcelona-gibraltar-alexandria-sidon in my opinion
should be more interesting than other alternatives ;if nothing else surely for novelty!

2]After calcutta jishnu wants to go to chatgna.Alternatives can be proposed

a]From Howrah after changing trains in Nalhati/Ranaghat [don't ask me for details!] we travel to Bongaon on the border. On crossing the border [goods trainsalready use this route],we will now travel via Jessore ,Dhaka to Akhaora in
Comilla on the border again.From Akhaora we can reach Agartala[goods trains run
on this line ,about passenger trains not so sure].From Agartala we take a bus to
Dharmanagar[direct connection to agartala is under construction] and from there
to Silchar in the Barak Valley of Assam.
b]Offcourse it becomes much simplified if we donot go to calcutta but
simply reach silchar from delhi via North East exp/Barak valley exp.It takes
roughly 37:30+12 hrs to reach Silchar.

Now comes the real fun part.From silchar we can either reach the railhead in
Mizoram or forget about it entirely and travel by bus to the Myanmar border.
>From there we can travel to Mandalay by bus.[There was a Statesman article
a long time ago describing the bus journey from Aizawl to Mandalay.I have to
dig it up].From Mandalay it is cool breeze.Mandalay-Yangon-Patan.From here we can either travel by rail directly to Thailand or travel via coastal ferry
from Moulmein to Kualalumpur and then travel north to Bangkok[via pattaya?
who needs a back rub??]From Bangkok we can proceed to Hochi...come on...saigon.
>From atlantic to pacific it had been a long journey but it was definitely
worth it ,what?

P.S. A round trip can also be suggested as Ho_Chin_Minh-Hanoi-Canton-Shanghai
-Beijing-Ulan Bator-Tashkhent-Moskva-St.Petersburg-Berlin-Eindhoven-Antwerp
-Paris can be probably made but I am too tired...yawn.any other suggestions?


regards,siddhartha.

From: VIJAYB <VIJAYB@PK705VMG.EMAIL

Subject:

Date: 24 Jun 1992 18:21:00 -0500


Hi Folks,
Jishnu's sketch of an imaginary train journey from Paris to Calcutta was
interesting as also the follow-up by Siddharta. Maybe, one should include the 7-day(?) journey from Moscow to Vladivostok by the Russia (popularly
known as the Trans Siberian Exp.) in an "around-the-world-in-xx-days" affair.
And, if one wishes to travel on the longest dead-straight stretch of rly.
track in the world, get to Perth and hop on the Australian Pacific(?) to
Kalgoorlie.


Arasu writes:
> I have been under the impression that the fastest meter guage train
> is the madras-madurai vaigai express at an average speed of ~69 km/hr.
> Is this correct? While I am not settling anything I am sure adding

Commercial speeds of some superfast MG trains:-
Name Distance Avg. Time Speed
1. Vaigai Exp. 495 km 7 hrs 42 mts 64.29 kmph
2. Pallavan Exp. 337 km 5 hrs 25 mts 62.22 kmph
3. Pink City Exp. 308 km 5 hrs 7 mts 60.20 kmph
4. Ashram Exp. 934 km 17 hrs 3 mts 54.78 kmph
5. Surya Nagri Exp. 455 km 8 hrs 30 mts 53.53 kmph
6. Mandor Exp. 613 km 12 hrs 5 mts 50.73 kmph

1. Madras-Madurai; 2. Madras-Tiruchi; 3. Delhi-Jaipur; 4. Delhi-Ahmedabad;
5. Ahmedabad-Jodhpur; 6. Delhi-Jodhpur

I am unable to supply the corresponding figures for the Delhi-Udaipur City
Gharib Nawaz Exp. at the moment, since the Nov. '91 Bradshaw does not give the
distance between Chittaurgarh and Udaipur City. I'll have to take a look at
the Western Rly. time-table.

The overall speeds of the Ashram and the Mandor Exps. get lowered b'coz of
their mutual coupling/decoupling at Phulera (which consumes atleast 20 mts.)
As a result, the Ashram Exp. takes about 2 hrs. 53 mts. to travel the 136 km.
distance between Jaipur and Ajmer -> 47 kmph.
The Up. and Dn. Surya Nagri Exps. cross each other between Abu Rd. a nd
Falna. As a result, the Dn. exp. has been given about 20-25 mts. extra time
between Abu Road and Marwar (to account for the time spent at the
precedence crossing point). Naturally, this would adversely affect
the commercial speed.

Regards,
Vijay

From: vmravi <vmravi@eos.email

Subject: Avg. speed...

Date: 24 Jun 1992 18:36:00 -0500


I've clocked Rayalaseema Express (Hyd to Tirupati)
at around 100 kmph + at times, though it's avg.
speed is nowhere near that mark ...

- Venu
vmravi@eos.email

From: Manish Malhotra <malhotra@cs.email

Subject:

Date: 24 Jun 1992 18:39:00 -0500


If I were to travel from Paris to Calcutta, I would board
the orient express from Paris to Budapest. From Budapest,
go to Moscow and follow what others have recommended.

Manish

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: what you say?

Date: 25 Jun 1992 13:24:00 -0500


A recent article in Rec.travel has this to say:


Article 32657 (104 more) in rec.travel:
From: sam@terapin.email (Sam Lewit)

Subject: Re: Trans-Siberia to Alaska?
Date: 23 Jun 92 18:56:08 PST
Organization: BBS

In article <22.Jun.92.17:35:54.BST.#0178@UK.EMAIL GTVV03@CMS.EMAIL
(J M Reeves) writes:
>I would like to travel from Scotland to Canada by land (mostly), for
>example: Glasgow - Moscow - Siberia - Alaska - Toronto!
>
>Does anyone have any knowledge of any of those parts of the journey?

This in no way answers your question, but I thought I'd mention that I have
heard on the news that some US politicians are looking into the feasibility of
building a rail line through Alaska and then under the Bering Strait to connect
North America with the European/Russian/Asian continent. Last estimated I heard
of were 163 billion US dollars.

This they say would help link freight traffic to the more fuel efficient and
environmentally sound method of rail travel.

Now I'm a big railfan and advocate, but I think this is one of the stranger
ideas Washington has come up with in a long time. With all the starvation,
crime, pollution going on in the world and our own countries, I don't think now
is a great time to be spending 163,000 million dollars on such a project.

I know I should take this to *.politics, but this request (Siberia-Alaska) got
me going.

Sam Lewit | sam@terapin.email
2550 Shattuck #73 | "We shouldn't be blindly opposed to all progress.
Berkeley, Ca. 94704 | But we should be opposed to blind progress"
Internet: sam@terapin.email | 510-486-1422 24HR BBS Newsfeeds Free
End of article 32657 (of 32777)--what next? [npq]

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj@cs.email

Subject: Re: what you say?

Date: 25 Jun 1992 14:32:00 -0500


> This in no way answers your question, but I thought I'd mention that I
> have heard on the news that some US politicians are looking into the
> feasibility of building a rail line through Alaska and then under the
> Bering Strait to connect North America with the European/Russian/Asian
> continent. Last estimated I heard of were 163 billion US dollars.
>
> This they say would help link freight traffic to the more fuel efficient
> and environmentally sound method of rail travel.

Couple of days ago, there was a discussion on NPR about the proposed
railroad in Alaska. I tuned in late, so I don't know where it is supposed
to go from where. They were talking about a cost of 2 million dollars
per mile of track, which I though was very low for Alaskan conditions.
The primary purpose of the tracks seemed to be for transporting oil.
It was considered much more environmentally safer than ships and/or
pipelines. (I don't understand why it should be better than pipeline,
but anyway.) They were discussing problems with trains, its effect
on Tundra and all that. At many places the tracks will have to be
either elevated or underground to minimize the environmental damage.
None of the discussant seemed to believe that this project is for
real.

-dheeraj

From: VIJAYB <VIJAYB@PK705VMG.EMAIL

Subject: Re: trains and speeds

Date: 25 Jun 1992 17:41:00 -0500


Some comments on recent mail from Siddhartha:-
>Howrah-delhi route for a long time had the fastest trains in the country.
>When rajdhani was first started it used to cover 1445km in 15:45 the average
>speed being 91.75km/hr. At that time [70's] kalka mail used to traverse
>the same distance in 21:20 hrs. [67.7 km/hr].The ac deluxe used to run
>[the via patna one ] 1557 km in 23:45 [65.6 km/hr].All these trains were
>started as pairs with the bombay -delhi trains but were much faster.The line
>was also electrified in 1976 some 12 years before electrification of the
>BMB-DLI line.

Besides being a predominantly unelectrified route till 1987, Bombay-Delhi also
had quite a few single line stretches. One of the last patches to be doubled
(in the mid 80s?) was Vikramgad Alot - Shamgarh - Ramganj Mandi. The other
reason for lower avg. speeds (when compared to the Delhi-Howrah route) was the
imposition of speed restrictions as a result of floods, notably in the Vadodara
and Kota divisions. Flood control measures such as elevation of approaches to
various rail bridges, have helped to a great extent.
It is heartening to note that the Bombay - New Delhi Rajdhani Exp. has been
speeded up, since its introduction in June 1972 (or was it July?). At that
time, it used to consume a little over 19 hrs. to travel the 1384 km. distance
with a commercial speed of about 72 kmph. This has been increased to about 82
kmph. with a reduction of nearly 2 hrs. 15 mts. in the travel time.
IMHO, electrification is a major factor since the train is now hauled by a WAP1
between Ratlam and new Delhi.


>The reasons given by the railways is several. One is the HWH-DLI track is
>simply oversaturated with superfast trains.The BMB-DLI track carries only
>six superfasts [4 BMB-DLI,BMB-IND,BMB-Gandhinagar] while the eastern track

We now have the Karnavati Exp. and the "Rajdhani-type" AC exp. And then, there
are the Sarvodaya/Hapa-Jammu Tawi Exps. having a common schedule with the
Bombay - Jammu Tawi Exp.

>runs amuck:Shatabdi,Prayag,Neelachal,North-east,Tinsukia mail,Magadh,Vidisha
>Chambal,Gomti.........almost every place is point-to-point connected with

Delhi-Kanpur is probably one of the few sections to have more superfasts than
ordinary exp./mail and passenger trains. A few of these are bunched together, so
that they run one after the other - this is done to increase the line capacity
and avoid unnnecessary delays to other trains (esp. goods traffic).
e.g the Tinsukia Mail, the Magadh-Vikramshila Exp., the Vaishali Exp.,
and the Prayagraj Exp. depart from Delhi/N. Delhi between 7.00 pm and 10.00 pm.


>However this slowing down process as mentioned by vijay is really sad.When the
>gitanjali was first started it covered BMB-HWH in 29 hrs.The bombay mail
>used to take 32 hrs[60.5 km/hr!]Now in ten years their speeds have fallen to
>32hrs/36hrs respectively.We seem to be going back instead of stepping forward.

A sad affair, indeed. Besides getting stripped off its red-yellow color, it
now halts at 15 stations (9 stns. more than the original six!!)


>And I nostalgically remember the HimGiri exp [corresponding to BMB-JAT] which
>used to cover HWH-JAT [2170] in 29 hrs [69.9 km/hr !]But now this has dropped
>to a miserable 54km/hr and covers in 38 hrs!!

This was due to a dramatic shift in the train timings so that it now is on the run
for two nights and a day. Other trains to have fallen prey to this scheme are
the Tamilnadu Exp. (although the damage done to the travel time is about an hour)
and the Ganga Kaveri Exp. (slowed down by nearly 3 hrs.)


Regards,
Vijay

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: Train trip across Canada

Date: 02 Jul 1992 13:31:00 -0500


Hello folks this is a fellow enthusiast
who writes about canadian railways.Now ,I am not sure about the irfca charter
but assuming it is only for Indians,is it okay I invite her to join our party?
Anything to keep up the steam!
regards,siddhartha.




I've been meaning to write since I returned from a
month-long trip in Canada; twelve days of which I spent on a train travelling
from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, to Toronto, Ontario, to Halifax, Nova Scotia,
back to Toronto, then on to Vancouver, British Columbia, and home to Saskatoon.
I'm taking care to describe that route since I've just seen a programme on
PBS called Travels - The last train across Canada. While the filming was very
well done, and there was a disclaimer at the end of the programme saying that
parts of the route still exist, the programme itself left the impression that
train travel in Canada was about to disappear. There have been many cutbacks
in train service, and the southern route from Toronto to Vancouver is no
longer used, but it is possible, with some stopovers to go back and forth
across the country by train, as well as take some side trips by train, or by
bus where the trains no longer run. VIA rail seems to be making an attempt to
improve train travel and passenger service.
I travelled using the Canrailpass ($473 for Canadians; less, I think, for
those travelling from other countries). The pass covers coach seats only, which
in western Canada means that passengers have reclining seats which can be quite
comfortable for sleeping with some ingenuity and luck. The meals on board are
quite good - you could eat well in the regular dining room for between $20-25
a day. There is also a takeout place for snacks, and a 'fancy' dining car where
the food is even better, but more expensive. All cars on VIArail are non-
smoking, except for the bar car, and certain designated cars on some lines. The
bathroom facilities on the coach cars neT 1 -1
Ced modernizing to say the least, but
they are sufficient.
VIA also has the Silver and Blue Class which is the first-class service. It
is quite expensive, but the passengers get very good service, including their
own dome car, preferential pre-boarding and baggage service, and lots of other
extras. I spent one night in first-class; upper and lower berths being availableto Canrailpass passengers from the conductor if there are any not reserved for
a cost of $59 to $72. For the time I was there I got first-class service, in-
cluding chocolates on my pillow, real towels, and a hot shower in each sleeping
car.
Now for the travelogue part. I have to admit that I love train travel and
I've been planning this trip for months, ever since I heard about the pass.
I've been back and forth to Nova Scotia several times before, since my family
is from there but I'd never been further west than Banff, Alberta. I was deter-
mined to do it, even though the time spent on the train seemed a bit long, esp-
ecially since we Canadians sometimes seem on the brink of letting train travel
and maybe the country itself, slip away from us. VIArail seems to be making a
real effort to improve the passenger service, and taking advantage of that
seemed one way I could see the country as a whole. The trip served to remind
me that Canada really is a remarkable country, made up as it is of so many
different landscapes, and with such a variety of geographical features.
Since I've lived in Saskatchewan for almost thirty years, I've come to
accept this province as being sort of ordinary, but by the time I returned
I really regretted that this is the one province which the train travels
through almost entirely at night. At this time of year, when the days start at
around 4:30 a.m., it's possible to see some of the province in daylight, and
realize just how marvellous it is to see the earth from flat horizen to flat
horizen, although I want to stress that Saskatchewan is not all flat land. I
left Saskatoon at around four a.m. and returned a month later at about the same
time. It was snowing early in the morning in mid-May when the train passed
through south-eastern Saskatchewan, but that changed to rain as we entered
Manitoba, causing one optimistic passenger to say "We'll have a bumper crop
this year." Saskatchewan isn't called 'next-year country' without reason.
One of the aspects of the scenery across Canada, next to the train tracks
is the view of water and trees. Some people may find that monotonous, but it
is most certainly varied, and at times it was interesting to notice the things
that remained constant. There were almost always birds of one kind or another
swimming or flying or sitting on fences outside the train window. People will
almost always wave at trains, and I was amazed in some instances (in Levis,
Quebec, for instance) at how close some houses were built to the train tracks.
The first lengthy stop is at Winnipeg, where passengers can get out, wander
around the station, do a little shopping, or whatever. A word of warning for
anyone who takes the train; if you get off at the larger stations, you won't
be allowed back on until boarding is allowed; being a passenger who already
has a seat doesn't give you any privileges and coach passengers are boarded
last. There are other stops along the way where you can get out and stretch
your legs, run to the nearest grocery store, and in Jasper, Alberta, you have
enough time to buy all sorts of souvenirs, and some really great ice-cream.
In Ontario, where we were travelling though some very isolated country at
times, the train stops often, sometimes to let freight cars pass, but some-
times to pick up, or let off, one or two or a dozen passengers. Sometimes the
train would stop and I would look out to see one person standing on the slope
between the tracks and a lake, waiting for the train to move so he could
cross the tracks. I think that it was this ability of VIArail to drop off
passengers just about anywhere that I found the most encouraging - it still
has the personal touch and it's not so bad being behind schedule if it's
because of that kind of concern for one passenger.
This message is getting way too long, so I'm just going to mention that the
train does go through the Rocky Mountains in the daytime, going both east and
west; that Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, and Quebec are beautiful parts of the
country to travel through; that British Columbia and Alberta offer spectaculor
scenery, and that the best part of the trip was the other passengers that I
met. There were people from Britain, Australia, Germany, Japan, the U.S., and many other countries, who I met, and who made the trip very enjoyable and inter-
esting. I'll be glad to answer any questions, through this newsgroup or through
email, about this trip, or about VIArail, if I can.

Visit Canada, if you can, and take the train if you want to see it in a
leisurely and enjoyable fashion.

Sarah Siteman

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: Train songs

Date: 02 Jul 1992 13:33:00 -0500


Article 33122 (21 more) in rec.travel:
From: alj@hpfcso.email (Al Jackson)

Subject: Re: Train Songs (Summary)
Date: 30 Jun 92 22:01:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 146

In rec.travel, dani@netcom.email (Dani Zweig) writes:

> albert@endor.email (David Albert):
> >Here at last is the Train Song summary...
>
> Thanks for the compilation, David. I had a hard time determining which
> songs had or hadn't been included, so I thought the following summary
> might help. I've removed most of the non-title information (see the
> full posting for that) and added a few titles that were missed. I may
> have lost a couple of titles in the process, and I haven't separated
> out the borderline or dubious cases:
>
> Between Trains
> Bill Mason
> Blue Railroad Train
> Boston & Maine
> Brakeman's blues
> Canadian Railroad Trilogy
> Casey Jones (2 versions)
> Casey (KC?) Moan (sic)
> Chatanooga Choo Choo
> Choo-choo (Please Do),
> Choo Choo ka-boogie
> Clear the Track, Let the Bulgine Run
> Corduroy breeches (?)
> Danville Girl
> Darling I love you
> Desperados Waiting For A Train
> Distant Trains
> Drill Ye Tarriers Drill
> The Dummy Line
> The Engineer
> Engineers Don't Wave From the Trains Anymore
> Fast Freight,
> 500 Miles
> Freight Train Blues
> Gentlemen will please refrain from flushing toilets while the train
> is in the station
> Golden Rocket
> Gospel Train
> Green Light On The Southern Railway Line
> Greenville Trestle High
> He-Bang, She-Bang (a.k.a. Old Moke Pickin' on the Banjo)
> The Hell-Bound Train
> Hello Hopeville
> Here's to You Rounders

Article 33123 (20 more) in rec.travel:
From: rnewman@bbn.email (Ron Newman)

Subject: Re: Motel 6 redux
Date: 2 Jul 92 04:43:10 GMT
Distribution: na
Organization: Bolt, Beranek & Newman, Inc.
Lines: 19
NNTP-Posting-Host: spT 1 -1
Ccsun25.bbn.com

In article <1992Jul2.041831.25840@news.email teshima@uhunix.email (A. Lani Teshima) writes:
|> In article <35075@sdcc12.email acohen@cs.email (Ariel Cohen) writes:
|> >
|> > I recall a recent thread on Motel 6, but I don't remember its
|> >conclusions, so I'd like to bring it up again. Specifically, I'm
|> >planning a trip along the California coast, and I wonder if anyone
|> >has experience with reasonably priced motels in not too sleazy
|> >locations in the bay area, Monterey, Santa Barbara and the LA area.
|> >Does anyone have experience with Motel 6 motels in those places?
|> >Other national chains?
|>
|> I just saw "Inside Edition" or one of those tabloid TV shows, and they
|> had a segment on the security problems at Motel 6's.

"Inside Edition" is about as reliable a news source as the
"Weekly World News"....

--
Ron Newman rnewman@bbn.email
End of article 33123 (of 33144)--what next? [npq]
Article 33122 (20 more) in rec.travel:
From: alj@hpfcso.email (Al Jackson)

Subject: Re: Train Songs (Summary)
Date: 30 Jun 92 22:01:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 146

In rec.travel, dani@netcom.email (Dani Zweig) writes:

> albert@endor.email (David Albert):
> >Here at last is the Train Song summary...
>
> Thanks for the compilation, David. I had a hard time determining which
> songs had or hadn't been included, so I thought the following summary
> might help. I've removed most of the non-title information (see the
> full posting for that) and added a few titles that were missed. I may
> have lost a couple of titles in the process, and I haven't separated
> out the borderline or dubious cases:
>
> Between Trains
> Bill Mason
> Blue Railroad Train
> Boston & Maine
> Brakeman's blues
> Canadian Railroad Trilogy
> Casey Jones (2 versions)
> Casey (KC?) Moan (sic)
> Chatanooga Choo Choo
> Choo-choo (Please Do),
> Choo Choo ka-boogie
> Clear the Track, Let the Bulgine Run
> Corduroy breeches (?)
> Danville Girl
> Darling I love you
> Desperados Waiting For A Train
> Distant Trains
> Drill Ye Tarriers Drill
> The Dummy Line
> The Engineer
> Engineers Don't Wave From the Trains Anymore
> Fast Freight,
> 500 Miles
> Freight Train Blues
> Gentlemen will please refrain from flushing toilets while the train
> is in the station
> Golden Rocket
> Gospel Train
> Green Light On The Southern Railway Line
> Greenville Trestle High
> He-Bang, She-Bang (a.k.a. Old Moke Pickin' on the Banjo)
> The Hell-Bound Train
> Hello Hopeville
> Here's to You Rounders

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: Re: Train Songs (Summary)

Date: 02 Jul 1992 14:18:00 -0500


sorry folks ,I messed up the last posting.Siddhartha





Date: 30 Jun 92 22:01:22 GMT
Organization: Hewlett-Packard, Fort Collins, CO, USA
Lines: 146

In rec.travel, dani@netcom.email (Dani Zweig) writes:

> albert@endor.email (David Albert):
> >Here at last is the Train Song summary...
>
> Thanks for the compilation, David. I had a hard time determining which
> songs had or hadn't been included, so I thought the following summary
> might help. I've removed most of the non-title information (see the
> full posting for that) and added a few titles that were missed. I may
> have lost a couple of titles in the process, and I haven't separated
> out the borderline or dubious cases:
>
> Between Trains
> Bill Mason
> Blue Railroad Train
> Boston & Maine
> Brakeman's blues
> Canadian Railroad Trilogy
> Casey Jones (2 versions)
> Casey (KC?) Moan (sic)
> Chatanooga Choo Choo
> Choo-choo (Please Do),
> Choo Choo ka-boogie
> Clear the Track, Let the Bulgine Run
> Corduroy breeches (?)
> Danville Girl
> Darling I love you
> Desperados Waiting For A Train
> Distant Trains
> Drill Ye Tarriers Drill
> The Dummy Line
> The Engineer
> Engineers Don't Wave From the Trains Anymore
> Fast Freight,
> 500 Miles
> Freight Train Blues
> Gentlemen will please refrain from flushing toilets while the train
> is in the station
> Golden Rocket
> Gospel Train
> Green Light On The Southern Railway Line
> Greenville Trestle High
> He-Bang, She-Bang (a.k.a. Old Moke Pickin' on the Banjo)
> The Hell-Bound Train
> Hello Hopeville
> Here's to You Rounders
> Hobo Bill
> Hobo's Lullaby
> Homeward Bound
> The House Between the Tracks
> I know you rider
> I Often Dream of Trains
> I'm Movin' On
> I've been workin on the railroad
> In the Early Morning Rain
> In the Pines
> Jamie, go and ile that car
> Jay Gould's Daughter
> Jimmy Did You Know (We Were AT 1 -1
Cll Gonna Ride the Train)
> John Henry
> The L&N don't stop here anymore
> Last Train from Poor Valley
> The Last Train to Clarksville
> Life Is Like A Mountain Railroad
> Lincoln's Funeral Train
> The Little Engine That Could
> Little Red Caboose
> The Little Red Train
> Lost Train Blues
> Love in Vain
> Maine & the Soo Line
> Mamie's Blues
> Midnight Special
> The Mobile Line
> The Monkey and the Enginerer
> MTA
> My Baby Thinks He's a Train
> Night Train to Memphis
> 900 Miles
> Old Train
> On a Cold Winter's Night
> Orange Blossom Special
> Paddy on the Railway (a.k.a. Filly-me-oo-a-re-ay)
> The Pan American Mail
> The Phoebe Snow, Panama Limited (?)
> Promised Land
> Railroad Bill
> Railroad Lady
> Railroading and Gambling
> Railroading on the Great Divide
> Rambling on my Mind
> Reuben's Train
> Riding on a Railroad
> Rollin' in my sweet baby's arms
> Run, Let the Bulgine Run
> Sam's Waiting for a Train
> Shadows on a Dime
> She'll be coming round the mountain when she comes (?)
> Six-Wheel Driver
> Something about Trains
> Starlight on the Rails
> Take the A Train
> Texas 1947,
> 3.10 to Yuma
> This Train
> Ticket to Ride,
> To Morrow
> To Stop The Train (In Cases Of Emergency)
> Train on the Island,
> The Train That Carried My Girl From Town
> Train to Sligo
> The True and Trembling Brakeman,
> The Trusty Lariat
> Up On The CP Line
> Waitin' For a Train (All Around the Water Tank),
> Wabash Cannonball
> Wreck of Old Number 9
> The Wreck of Old 49
> Wreck of the old 97
> Wreck of the 1262
> The Wreck of the FFV
> Won't you come Home Bill Baily
>
> Other:
> > Title: Long steel rail : the railroad in American folksong
> > Author: Cohen, Norm.
> > Publisher: Urbana : University of Illinois Press, c1981.
> >
> > Title: A treasury of railroad folklore : the stories, tall
> > tales, traditions, ballads and songs of the American
> > railroad man
> > Author: Botkin, Benjamin Albert, 1901-
> > Publisher: New York : Bonanza Books, 1953.
>
> >David, have you heard of Dave Goulder? A singer/songwriter from Scotland.
> >He is a train fanatic, particularly of the older, narrow-guage rails. Has
> >an album out with only train songs.
>
> -----
> Dani Zweig
> dani@netcom.email

From: Ajai Banarji <banarji@unixg.email

Subject:

Date: 03 Jul 1992 12:11:00 -0500


MISCELLANEOUS NEWS

The new timetable came into effect from July 1. A few new services which
were not mentioned in the railway budget speech have been introduced. These
include a Nizamuddin-Sambalpur express (Bi-weekly?) and an Amritsar-Barauni
express via Lucknow and Gorakhpur. This used to run a few years ago, and
was a combination of the Howrah-Amritsar Express and the Barauni-Kanpur
Express.
m.n.s. reports that the Bombay-Bangalore super express will depart from
the Kurla terminal.
In Railway Gazette, there was a brief mention about Pakistan's railways
selling off a large stock of narrow-gauge steam locos, coaches and wagons.
This seems to be because they have closed down all their narrow-gauge lines
which were hopelessly uneconomic. (A pity, though. It would have been a
nice experience to travel on the Bostan-Fort Sandeman line which had only
one train a week. The countryside is so remote that stations are 30-40
miles apart-unlike the average of less than 5 miles in most of India. However,
the Quetta-Zahidan line is even worse-the 1942 Bradshaw shows stations more
than 100 miles apart.)
Does anyone have news about the present status of the Calcutta metro?
There does not seem to be any prospect of opening the Esplanade-Belgachia
section for at least 2 years. Is the problem primarily due to land acquisition
or labour trouble?
Whatever the trouble is, it seems to be quite an insoluble problem. The
company I was working with had got a large order for supply and installation
of cables for the Shyambazar-Belgachia section back in 1988-but the metro
authorities did not have possession of the land at that time.
What about the SER's plan to start their long-distance services from
Shalimar? Reaching this place from Calcutta may be difficult unless the
2nd bridge is completed.

From: Manish Malhotra <malhotra@cs.email

Subject: Marrakesh express

Date: 04 Jul 1992 11:17:00 -0500


I have a question based on Crosby, Stills, Nash song.
Is there really a Marrakesh express ?
Is it a popular train ? I think Marrakesh is the city
where "The man who knew too much" film is set.

Manish

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