IRFCA Mailing List Archive
Messages 9161 - 9180
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: WDM2 model
Date: 23 Oct 1999 01:07:51 -0500
Anne Ogborn wrote:
> It seems to resemble a WDM2 in trucks and body shape.
If you are looking for WDM2-ish locos, check out the
13-series from Portugal:
<A HREF="http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pt/diesel/1300/cp1320_1.jpg">http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pt/diesel/1300/cp1320_1.jpg</A>
<A HREF="http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pt/diesel/1300/sns22.jpg">http://mercurio.iet.unipi.it/pix/pt/diesel/1300/sns22.jpg</A>
I don't know if Portugese models (and their Spanish
equivalents) are easily available, but a web search
may bring up something.
--
JS
--
From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>
Subject: Re: X-class, YAM1 and loony ideas about electrifying the NMR
Date: 23 Oct 1999 03:59:32 -0500
Dear Heinrich, and everyone,
We've had this furphy before, and I really think there ought to be a
bit
of common sense applied. The Nilgiri railway is a RACK railway. The
average
grade on the section Kallar-Coonoor is around 1 in12.5, the steepest
pinch 1
in12.28.
The LIMIT OF ADHESION for non-rack trains is 1 in 11, and the only
lines
working that close use signle unit railcars with multiple braking
systems.
The practical limit for TRAINS is more like 1 in 20. The
Darjeeling-Himalayan Railway has a maximum grade variously quoted at 1
in 16
or 1 in 18, and slipping is quite common. The braking system would
probably
not be approved nowadays, either.
Now the YAM1s are LOCOMOTIVES, designed for operating TRAINS on
relatively level track. If they could be modified for rack at all, which
is
quite unlikely, it would be vastly expensive.
And what's the point? There is a lot to be said for getting traffic
off
road and onto the railway, but at present there is one train a day! You
could run lots more trains, even on the rack section, if there were
enough
steam engines available. Electrification makes economic sense only if
there
is a very frequent service of trains, carrying heavy loads. NMR does not
meet this criterion. When the SLM people looked at motive power
alternatives
a couple of years ago, they quickly found that the most economical
option
was steam -- even at their prices.
Furthermore, electrification would wipe out the tourist trade,
presently substantial, especially in the season.
So, you YAM fans will have to find somewhere else to run your
superannuated electrics. Hands off the NMR!
Happy rack steaming
Ken Walker
-----Original Message-----
From: hubbert@cityweb.email <hubbert@cityweb.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 22 October 1999 1:42
Subject: X-class, YAM1 and the "Queen"
Could it really be true, that there will be an electric service up to
Ooty with YAM1 in the future? Electric-haulage would improve the
capacity of the line. There is very hefty road traffic in the hills - an
ecologically sensitive (landslides) area - which could be shifted to
the rail. Imagine a dozen train-pairs runing daily?! How many
busloads would save that?!
Heavy vehicles could be banned from the mountain-road then.
And the X-class will be the veteran-attraction only to put in service
on holiday-specials for an extra-fare!
This is the best scenario, I can imagine.
But the Queen will no more be that toy-train.
However, the steam-buffs have three years time to take a chance.
Heinrich
On 21 Oct 99, at 21:26, Anand I.S. wrote:
> Dear Hubbert,
>
> thnx 4 ur ltr., and greetings 2 u.As I am operating from cyber cafe,
there
> could be delay in my reply. Please bear. I shall b again going down
south
> this Nov. end and possibly Jan. visiting Rly. instalations is
difficult
> even 4 INDIANS. So 4 a foreigner u could imagine.
>
> However I shall help u all I could. 4 a few more years, steam on the
> Nilagiri is assured. However, the elec. lobby is busy, in that they
want
> the MG ELEC LOCOS TO b used there after elecfn. of MG is closed down
in
> CHENNAI section, sometime in 2003/5.
>
> All existing X.CL. LOCOS will be totally rebuilt. I already saw the
> cylinders, pistons, gears pinions etc; being rebuilt and readied. In
> facton the day of my visit, the cylns. were being put in place.
>
> Frankly however, I would'nt mind the Elec locos being operated, as my
ist.
> love is Elec. amd my dear YAM-1s would'nt have to go to the scrap
yard.
> Anyway bye 4 now.
>
> anand. "Der Deltic"
>
>
>
> Der Deltic"
>
>
> anand
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> isadeltic@hotmail.email
>
> F/6, BALAKA,
> SWASTIK PARK,
> CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
> INDIA.
> Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
> Tel(O): 91+22+2623235
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: AC sleepers on the Konkan Kanya
Date: 23 Oct 1999 05:58:28 -0500
Gang !
As per a press release the KR 0111 CSTM - MAO Konkan Kanya has an
additional 1st AC sleeper from 23rd Oct 99 on alternate days. From
24th Oct one composite HA class (1st and 2nd in one coach) sleeper
would be attached to the 0111 on the other alternate days.
The LTT (CLAT) - HWH Super Deluxe via NGP would have one additional run
at the end of the month (28th Oct I think) to clear the holiday crowd.
Apurva
From: Rajan Mathew <>
Subject: MUMBAI - MADRAS - HYDERABAD Sept99 .. RAIL TRAVEL ACCOUNT
Date: 23 Oct 1999 06:08:42 -0500
Dear Gang,
Finally to my account of travel to Madras & Hyderabad ....
PART I - KALYAN TO CHENNAI
Travelling with two friends to Chennai to attend a friends marriage. (I
was
just acquainted with the person but a good enough reason get leave and
have
company to travel to Chennai ... )
I departed from Kalyan by the 6009 dn Madras Mail on the 11th Sep at
0045
hrs - The train came in 15 minutes late hauled by a WCAM3 ... I boarded
my
coach - S1 (second from engine) - Went upto my sleeper berth and slept
...
Woke up just before Kurduwadi and went to the door and stood there (with
walkman belting out Ricky Martin) ... we were making slow but steady
progress towards Solapur ... no electric poles around now - surely in
diesel
territory - just over 300 km away from Mumbai - what a refreshing change
to
wake up to a morning on a speeding train ...
Kurduwadi came .. looking out to the left behind was the goods yard and
the
NG (Narrow Gauge) Station which connects to Latur Road in the north east
and
Miraj towaards the south west. As pulls into the station from Pune, the
train goes under a NG bridge.
Arrived in Solapur for late breakfast ... found out that we were being
hauled by Guntakal WDM2 - short hood in front (which was attached at
Pune) The train left shortly thereafter .. we were running an hour late
compared to the timetable schedule .. passed Hotgi junction ahead
intercepted a number of trains enroute. Ahead at at place we moved in to
a
siding line and went ahead. The line was a dead end. Just then on the
main
single line the Mumbai bound Udyan Express passed us by. The train then
reversed itself right back into the station and then we continued our
forward journey. The loop line was not long enough to permit the
crossing.
We passed Gulbarga and Shahabad and pulled into Wadi 10 minutes ahead of
schedule. Just goes to show that too much time is allotted to trains so
that
they can get delayed and then make it up.
The Mumbai bound 6010 up mail just came in at the same time into Wadi ..
We
left Wadi right on schedule bound for Guntakal .. most of the section
here
was doubled till Yadgir .. really exhausted so retired for an afternoon
nap
over the Krishna and right through Raichur .. Woke up at Mantralayam
Road
Observed the triangle as we departed from Wadi - the line from Hyderabad
via
Hallakata which is the chord line that byepasses Wadi Jn so that trains
like
the NZM-SC-SBC or the Rayalaseema may byepass Wadi and avoid a reversal
here
Had a good halt here as we had to wait for the 1064 Mumbai bound Chennai
express to reach. A pleasent stop. Got a chance to observe the WDM at
close
quarters.
Left for Mantralayam Road for Adoni enroute to Guntakal. Passed a goods
train hauled by two WDG locos. Passed a few other trains .... took some
pix
here. The line in stretches was doubled.
Getting into Guntakal was one exciting thing being a junction with a lot
of
fanouts. The unfortunate thing is that so many extras boarded at Adoni
and
the place was quite cramped for the few stations - the TC's always
coming to
the coach late, and thus I was not able to get such a good view of the
place.
Reached Guntakal just after sunset to meet the Coimbatore Kurla Express.
Not
much light to make any clear observations. A good stop sent me scurrying
around for a few bites. The WDM2 loco was changed here and another WDM2
fixed here this time long hood front. I guess Guntakal was the point
where
the locos dropped on or off from "home". The train left Guntakal towards
Gooty and reached Tadpatri by 9 pm. Retired for the night to a sound
sleep
....
Woke up at 0400 am at AJJ with a lot of light peeking in from the many
tubelights of the station - one of the big suburban terminii on the
Madras suburban system. My friend told me later that we had a really
long
halt in the night - I pointed out that the halt would be at Renigunta
where
in fact they had changed engines again with now a AJJ WAM hauling our
train
(this was confirmed on our arrival in Chennai).
I was busy getting ready for Madras and the day ahead ... washing and
even
shaving ... one thing I love to do on the train ... A double line upto
Thiruvallur became a quadrupled line. The train was now travelling fast
towards Chennai Central, as we passed station after station ... Avadi,
Perambur and closing in.
Checked out the clover leaf junction between Vyasarpadi Jiva and Basin
Bridge Jn - four tracks taking a almost 90 degees curve to head straight
on
into Chennai Central the left two are for through trains and the two
right
ones for suburban traffic. The bend was around some oil installation - a
refinery or depot or something ... lots of bright lights, storage tanks
and
a tall chimney tower
We went under a ROB (Road over bridge and met up with the other line at
Basin Bridge junction) We pulled into Chennai Central at 0540 - well in
time.
PART II - CHENNAI
Chennai Central if one faces it from the front has two main sections.
Through trains from the classic red building. To the right of the red
building stand a grand building - the SR headquarters with two painted
steam locos. I didn't have time to really check these out unfortunately
so
no details here. To the left of the red building lies a new tall
building
with separate entrance - this is the Chennai Suburban terminus - This
has 4-5 platforms with its own circulation area.
The main stations has two parts - the right which has platforms 1-6 and
mainly for north and east bound trains. Platforms 7-11 mainly for
trains to
south and west.
On the 12th evening, I came to the Chennai Central station to leave
someone
(Managed to lay my hands on a SR TT from as book vendor there), and had
to
get back to Mambalam, where I put up - if one crosses the main road in
front
of the station there is a new pathway which was created to approach Park
Town Station. I took this path mistaking Park Town for Madras Park
Station
(Park Town is on the new MRT line to Thirumailai while Madras Park is
the
station on the Madras Beach to Tambaram and onwards). The path goes just
under the road bridge that crosses the railway lines - late in the night
about 930 pm was really dark and stinking and with no one in sight -
reminded me of lonely alleys in New York. (thank god there were no
muggers
!!) We then got onto another path - that linked Park town station and
Park
station (the distance between the two stations was an estimated 200m
apart)
and reached Park station. We took our tickets from the booking office
and
realised that we could have found a more accessible way to the station
after
all.
Took the footbridge and came to the island platform for the MG locals -
There are two tracks for MG Suburban services and one track for BG
services. MG Locals are very frequent - second to Mumbai. (5-10 minutes
headway)
Caught the first local that came - After travelling daily on Mumbai's
locals, it was a welcome change - the trains were smaller and much
quieter -
the pickup amazing too. There were hardly any standees and I got to do
what
I love best - stand at the door ... and observe things go by .. it was a
real exciting feeling. We passed Egmore - The first time I saw this
great
station - a lot of work still seemed to have been done recently -
conversion from MG to BG.
The train from Chennai Beach generally moves westwards and curves after
Egmore to move in a general south west direction. Between Beach and
Egmore
there are two MG lines on the right and one BG line on the left. The MG
line
has all the suburban trains. From Egmore onwards, there is one
additional MG
line to carry through trains. Thus even fast MG locals ply on these.
A massive yard, much of it reconstructed, between Egmore and Chetput was
observed - indeed a major terminii for south bound trains and a number
of
engines ... YDM's and WDM's around too ....
Chetput, Nungambakkam, Koddambakkam to Mambalam - surely a thrilling end
to
a great day .. as we walked from the station to where we stayed.
The next day, 13th Sept, had to go to a remote place north of Perambur
...
Our host suggested we catch a bus from Central Station. Got a
lift to Koddambakkam Station - I decided that the starting point was
closer
to Chennai Beach Station, so we took the local and went right upto
Chennai
Beach - Got a few good snaps - travelled in the luggage compt since we
had
bags - the compartment was absolutely empty after Park
Chennai Beach is the MG local terminus with the left two PF as EMU
terminals. The next 1 pf was for other MG trains. There were additional
PF
for BG trains running towards Thirumailai and Royapettah respectively. I
managed to get hold of a suburban TT at the booking office here.
Went to the place I had to visit and passed Perambur by bus - Perambur
was
indeed a huge place with a sprawling complex housing the ICF - Integral
Coach Factory.
PART III - CHENNAI TO HYDERABAD
Reached Chennai Central in the evening to depart to Hyderabad on the
2760
Charminar Superfast. A 24 coach long train - I was in S6 - a long walk
to
the coach. The train was drawn by a WAP4. We departed right on time -
1810
and gently moved out of Chennai. I was at the door trying to absorb and
snap
in what I could (Unfortunately these didn't come ... ) Got a daytime
view of
what I could see only in the dark while coming into Chennai. Basin
Bridge
had to the right, the "Train Care Centre", a huge depot/siding for train
maintainance.
To the left the lines emerging from Chennai Suburban Terminal. At Basin
Bridge Jn, we took the turn to the right - up and straight ahead towards
Gudur. A few lines to the right for trains to Madras Port and Chennai
Beach.
The clover leaf junction was quite unique.
As we moved out, the train picked up speed and we moved steadily
forward,
passing Gummipundi. Our first halt was at Sullurpetta.
The train moved on to Gudur making a brief halt at Nayadupeta. We pulled
in
to Gudur 15 minutes behind schedule. Had a 5 mniutes halt here ...
Spotted
the SC bound Narayadri Express ready, but waiting for our train to make
the
first move, in a glorious livery of dark blue/light blue/dark blue. We
took
off in no time speeding into the night towards Nellore. As we approached
Nellore, a big town with a lot of lights - speeded through Nellore South
and
came to a quick but firm halt in Nellore. Retired to sleep after leaving
Nellore ...
Woke up after 1 am with a clanging sound - the train was crossing the
Krishna river and approaching Vijaywada. The train pulled in to
Vijaywada on
schedule at 0130. Since I was awake I decided to see the platform ...
In
the dark of the night ... couldn't make out much really, but this was my
first time on the Tenali - Vijaywada - Kazipet stretch ... and I HAD to
see
the "great" Vijaywada junction .. just climbed out of the train ... saw
a
well lit platform and a lot of announcements ... a few other trains
coming
in to go on or to change directions ... didn't see much really ... went
back
in and retired to sleep ... resolved to come back by day next time ...
Woke up at day break ... the train way past Kazipet and steadily moving
in
on Sec'bad. As we closed in passing Maula Ali station - quite a large
marshalling yard this side and progressed to Lallaguda (Note that the
first
station out of Sec'bad eastwards is Maula Ali, but the Lalaguda works
dominate the scene) A major junction/fanout with a line to Kachaguda
(Kurnool), line to Bolaram BG and MG (MG continues to Medchal/Mudkhed).
There is also quite a elaborate crossing which I will post a s as a
diagram
shortly. Crossed the New Delhi bound AP express drawn by a WAP? while we
waited for a signal here ...
Pulled into Sec'bad 20 minutes before schedule .... so it was a long
wait
... (PF2) The following trains passed by - HWH bound East Coast
Express,
Mumbai - BBS Konark Express and the Kazipet passenger. Sighted a WDP1
and a
DHMU on PF7. and grabbed a photo opportunity.
We left SC at 755 for Hyderabad .... after a km or so the train runs
along
the side of the Hussainsagar lake. The line forkes here with one track
towards Begumpet/Sanatnagar/Wadi to the right and Hyderabad (Nampalli)
station to the left. The HYB line continues to run along the edge of the
Hussainsagar Lake (Now of course, the necklace road which encircles
almost
the entire lake runs between the lakes edge and the railway line). The
curve
continues and at Hussainsagar Jn - a now defunct rundown station, the
line
curving in from right comes in to meet the HYB bound line. I've always
enjoyed coming into HYB because of this unique lakeside run. We pulled
into
HYB at 0825.
PART IV - HYDERABAD BLUES AND BACK TO MUMBAI
My cousin works at the rly station in the booking - infact both his
parents
were employed in the railways (SCR) and my Uncle (late) was the station
superintendent at Maula Ali station a few years back. Popped into the
station about 1130 to see the Rayalaseema Express pull in hauled by a
Gooty
WDM2 - Actually I didn't see any such board, what I really saw was the
board
for the Kolhapur - Hyderabad Haripriya Express with at least 4-5
coaches.
This clearly shows just how many coaches of the Haripriya Express is
sent to
Hyderabad. (The original train runs Kolhapur - Tirupati)
The next day was time to bid good - bye to Hyderabad. Reached the
station at
1345 for the 7002up Hyderabad - Mumbai Hussainsagar Express (If you
missed
traveling by the former Minar Express, this is the train is the
replacement
with a few more stops and a slightly longer run time). A regular journey
for
me (Hyb-Mumbai) since I'm a frequent visitor here. Departed on time. The
SCR
territory extends to Wadi, after which CR commences. The journey of 185
km
to Wadi dominates most of the surviving daylight hours with the terrain
quite rough in patches and numerous curves - Vikarabad Jn, where a line
branches out to the right for Parli Vaijnath and onwards. Tandur and
Malkhaid road are other halts
Approching Wadi, the entire junction has a series of signal cabins -
Wadi
E - controls the fork for Raichur / Wadi where trains bound for the
south
turn left her and pass Halkatta and join with the line running from
Wadi.
My train turned towards the right and proceeded into Wadi Jn.
It was dusk in Wadi .. The train moved on to Gulbarga and reached
Solapur
right on time. The train left Solapur for Pune and then Mumbai. The
Railway
police gave orders to lower all windows/shutters as a precaution (due to
the
numerous lootings that are known to take place especially on night
trains).
Woke up after Ambarnath and started getting ready for my day ahead (I
had to
go to office, so I decided to have my shave on the train...) . Got off
at
Dadar, moved to the local PF1 and took a local to Kurla ... made my way
home
... a great journey made ... and awaiting another great one....
pix will come up on this soon ...
Gang ... enjoy this one / Rajan
From: shankar s. <>
Subject: manual points lever
Date: 23 Oct 1999 06:16:55 -0500
Hello,
I have just browsed through Tim's India Edits page in
some detail. Nice pics.
There was a thread about the lever by the lineside for
operating the points manually, which leads to a short
branch-off with a dead end.
I have seen this in use in the following situations:
1. At stations: a) to isolate a defective car
b) parking ofone or two cars: either
slip coaches or tourist cars
c) for temporarily stabling a refuse
wagon (garbage wagon) till all the
garbage is loaded onto it.
d) parking one or two locomotives. The
engines usually arrive from the
shed
after servicing, and are parked in
such aprons till the train they are
supposed to work arrives. At large
stations, the points are electroni-
cally controlled, but at smaller
stations like Katpadi etc. where
only a couple of trains actually
terminate,this is the arrangement.
e)parking of miscellaneous service
vehicles:stores delivery van etc.
f)parking of one or two freight cars
(not too common now) which have
been
uncoupled at that spot as part of
piecemeal freight operation.
At loco sheds, such branch offs exist to isolate
defective engines, which either need to be look into
in some detail, or which have to be moved to a larger
facility for more extensive repair, or which simply
need not be moved for a while.
Apurva will recall that there is one such branch in
the Poona dc engine shed at the Poona station end. I
used to spend countless hours during my boyhood days
watching incoming trains from this spot.
I have also seen is some rare cases railway vehicles
permanently stabled in such manually operated branch
offs.(usually an inspection car or one or two freight
wagons).
Cheers.
Shankar
=====
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at <A HREF="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com</A>
From: S.Shankar <>
Subject: Re: India Edits
Date: 23 Oct 1999 19:36:47 -0500
Hello Tim,
There is no need to add any developmental software and all. Its quite
easy really.
Simply take a blank page on your FrontPage program, title it as index.
List your sites and copy-paste the respective url next to it, thats all.
Of course, you will have to use the 'edit hyperlink' feature on each url
so that it links with the respective page.
I edit my index page online itself. (taking the cue from my guru
Apurva).
Thanks for the visual treat once again. I usually view your pages again
and again.
Cheers.
Shankar
Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
>
> S.Shankar wrote:
> >
> > Hello Tim,
> > Nice pics. I also liked the black background.
> > I have not viewed them in too much detail as yet,(I will by
tomorrow),
> > but what I saw was pretty interesting. A couple of them did not need
to
> > be excluded/edited out from the earlier site at all.
> > Keep them coming.
> > I have added the link to the links page of my superrailway site. All
> > three of your sites are there now. As your sites increase in number,
you
> > could also do what Apurva does: make a nice index page.
> > And do work on your general photography page!!
> > Thanks for the treat.
> > Cheers.
> > Shankar
>
> Thanks for the comments Shankar, and for making the links on your
page.
> I would love to make an index form for my sites, but I will have to
> upgrade my development software. Maybe sometime soon.
>
> Regards, Tim
> >
> > Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
> > >
> > > Gang!
> > >
> > > I've scanned and posted 22 shots I took in 1994 that I did not
include
> > > in my first web page. If you would like to see them please go to
> > > <A HREF="http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/india.htm">http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/india.htm</A>
> > >
> > > Regards, Tim Wakeman
From: S.Shankar <>
Subject: Maps
Date: 23 Oct 1999 19:49:55 -0500
Hello,
Taking a cue from my webpage guru Apurva, I am proposing to make a page
of IR maps. You have already seen my 'bombay suburban' site. This will
be on similar lines, only, it will cover all of the IR.
I will have to scan maps from the respective timetables.
I already have the following timetables: TAAG, CR, WR, SC, SR.
Bombay suburban I have already put into my site. KR maps appear as part
of the All India map in last year's TAAG as well as in color in the nice
site Rajan forwarded to us yesterday.
Except the SR map, which is in color, all others will need to be b/w,
with all the limitations of the poor quality of the original images.
Any inputs from any of you will be most welcome.
What I really need is:
1. Maps of the other zones: NR, NE, NF, ER, SE, and any of the newer
zones if available.
2. Color maps of the ones I already have, if available.
3. HISTORICAL IR maps: just for the fascination angle: will be an
interesting sideline. One of my books has 'railways of hte subcontinent'
as endpapers, but it cannot be scanned, as its only part. There is a
nice map as endpaper in the 'IR 100 yrs.' book, but my copy is lying in
Poona.
4.Suburban maps of Delhi, Madras, Calcutta.
5. I had a map of the Calcutta metro, but can't find it now. Map of the
Metro.
6. Any additional inputs by way of maps, images, suggestions, tips,
anything.
Look forward to your comments.
Cheers,
Shankar
From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>
Subject: Re: India Edits
Date: 23 Oct 1999 20:02:19 -0500
Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Bravo ! Heartachingly beautiful pics - the low angle shot the
> (india10.jpg) is just too good. Why did you not include these in the
> earlier pages ? I am missing your apt narration !
>
> Apurva
Sorry it was just a "show" and no "tell", but I felt that if I included
all of these in the first page it would have made it a "run on" story.
Therefore I did not feel there was a need to include them. Like I said,
these were from my 1994 trip. Look for more later when I scan what is
not included in the Return to Katpadi page. These will include a trip to
Bangalore, Pakala Jct. and even a "chase" after the #645 to Polur!
Regards, Tim
>
> Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
>
> > Gang!
> >
> > I've scanned and posted 22 shots I took in 1994 that I did not
include
> > in my first web page. If you would like to see them please go to
> > <A HREF="http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/india.htm">http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/india.htm</A>
> >
> > Regards, Tim Wakeman
From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>
Subject: Re: India Edits
Date: 23 Oct 1999 20:06:53 -0500
S.Shankar wrote:
>
> Hello Tim,
> Nice pics. I also liked the black background.
> I have not viewed them in too much detail as yet,(I will by tomorrow),
> but what I saw was pretty interesting. A couple of them did not need
to
> be excluded/edited out from the earlier site at all.
> Keep them coming.
> I have added the link to the links page of my superrailway site. All
> three of your sites are there now. As your sites increase in number,
you
> could also do what Apurva does: make a nice index page.
> And do work on your general photography page!!
> Thanks for the treat.
> Cheers.
> Shankar
Thanks for the comments Shankar, and for making the links on your page.
I would love to make an index form for my sites, but I will have to
upgrade my development software. Maybe sometime soon.
Regards, Tim
>
> Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
> >
> > Gang!
> >
> > I've scanned and posted 22 shots I took in 1994 that I did not
include
> > in my first web page. If you would like to see them please go to
> > <A HREF="http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/india.htm">http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/india.htm</A>
> >
> > Regards, Tim Wakeman
From: Anne Ogborn <>
Subject: Re: Maps
Date: 23 Oct 1999 23:34:24 -0500
3. HISTORICAL IR maps: just for the fascination angle: will be an
interesting sideline. One of my books has 'railways of hte subcontinent'
as endpapers, but it cannot be scanned, as its only part. There is a
nice map as endpaper in the 'IR 100 yrs.' book, but my copy is lying in
Poona.
I've had the fantasy of writing a program to do an animation.
It would have zoom and pan controls like a map, and would
display a map of railroads. It also would
have a playback line like a quicktime animation.
When you hit play, it would roll forward in time.
So you could zoom out and watch the general trend of railway
development, or zoom in and watch a particular area.
But unfortunately, while the program is fairly easy gathering
and converting the data would be an immense job.
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: NRM elecfn.
Date: 24 Oct 1999 00:56:04 -0500
"Anand I.S." wrote:
> ......So why can't YAMs be the
> answer ?
I don't oppose electrification per se, but Dr Walker
does have some valid questions. The grade on the rack
section cannot be handled economically by a YAM4 working
only on adhesion (probably even with banking assistance).
As far as I know (YAM4 experts please correct me !), the
YAM4 is driven by six axle-hung traction motors, and I imagine
it would be near-impossible to package another pinion on any
driving axle (it might even be yet cheaper to import Swiss
locos/motor coaches of the type that work the MG Rhaetian and
Furka-Oberalp rack RRs, if there is any OTHER compelling reason
to electrify the NMR in the first place, that is).
In any case, the long term cost implications of steam vs
electric for the NMR should be compared exhaustively before
a decision on motive power is taken. I suppose IR is thinking
about a possible increase in the traffic (otherwise elecfn
would not have been mentioned at all), which cannot be
supported purely by the current steam fleet on the rack sections
(YDM4s already work the non-rack section). The only new
steam proposal came from SLM and was considered expensive,
but would it be cheaper than modifying YAM4 locos (or buying
new electrics/diesels/MUs), enlarging clearances for OHE,
installing the OHE and absorbing any tourist revenue loss after
the end of steam ? Electric traction would, conversely, support
higher traffic volumes (assuming demand actually exists) once
properly in place, and provide an environmental boost to the
region. It is the possible cost which worries me.
More thoughts on this would be interesting. (I have nothing
against the YAM4 per se, btw: really nice looking loco.)
Also: do diesel locos (or railcars/MUs) work rack-assisted
trackage anywhere in the world ?
--
JS
--
From: s.shankar <>
Subject: Poona Light Rail
Date: 24 Oct 1999 01:02:46 -0500
Hello Appu,
You are the correct person to answer this query:
I read with great interest in a website about a new light rail system
under
construction for Poona.
Today I saw again in Punecity.com about the Municipal Corporation being
unable to handle the land acquisition aspects etc. etc.
What is this LRT all about? Is it a metro, or a tram service, or is it
simple an elevated railway like the one in Madras? What is the route?
Please
provide details: I'm simply dying to know.
When we moved to Poona in 1971, we had purchased a map produced by Tej
Bros,
with a nice print of a train hauled by an EA/1, with an extensive dotted
rail line running all over the city, including some remote areas like
near
the airport, saying 'proposed ring railway'. That was way back in 1970:
I
have not seen any reference to this after that in the next 29 years.
And is it really under construction? Or is it still only in the proposal
stage?
Cheers.
Shankar
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From: Anand I.S. <>
Subject: NRM elecfn.
Date: 24 Oct 1999 04:47:29 -0500
Hi everybody,
I certainly don't feel it is a LOONY idea. Better a rly. than none @
all. So
if there is going to be no steam, then what 's wrong with elec. to run
the
show. We will still have our rly. Surely people don't travel NRM JUST
because it is steam. If they so do, then it is only the steam fanatics..
People travel the NRM JUST 4 THE RIDE of train travel. A look at the
passengrs will tell u, how many r steam/railfans doing the trip. Most
are 4
the novelty and of course
honey-mooners who get additional chance to cuddle in seasonal times and
free
in non-seasonal times.
Anyway GR workshops are demonstrating their great capabilities of
restoration of the steam. So why crib ? One cannot go on and on with
flagging steam, or any power 4 for that matter.
Modern world is throwing up many capabilities. So why can't YAMs be the
answer.
All said & done with elecs. the service would be there and one can
still have some spl. steam sectional runs.
4 tourist trades novelties r the ans. So let variety be, and the
archieval types can always go to the steam museums.
Anyhow all in fun and NO OFFENCE meant.
Waiting to hear more on this.
While on the subj. please note that internationally I am very much
interested in SBB/BLS, DB, SNCF, OBB and to a lesser extant RENFE & FS
and the balance the other Euro systems.
So I would b happy 4 anybody with similar interests to chat with me.
Bye 4 now and regards to all.
anand.
isadeltic@hotmail.email
F/6, BALAKA,
SWASTIK PARK,
CHEMBUR MUMBAI - 400071
INDIA.
Tel(R): 91+22+5226163
Tel(O): 91+22+2623235
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
From: Karthik Giddu <>
Subject: Same WDP2 photos
Date: 24 Oct 1999 10:00:42 -0500
HI Folks,
Part of WDP2 photos are put on my website at <A HREF="http://gidduk.webhostme.com">http://gidduk.webhostme.com</A>
(previously from tripod)
Click gallery and select anand photos.
The photos were taken by Anand IS during his recent visit to south
India.
Also Some of the damaged locos which where re-built at GR will also go
up
tomorrow/day after. I am slow since i have to ask my office fellows to
scan.
Karthik
<A HREF="http://gidduk.webhostme.com/">http://gidduk.webhostme.com/</A>
+91-22-8014919
From: Apurva Bahadur <>
Subject: Re: NRM elecfn.
Date: 24 Oct 1999 10:07:32 -0500
My scattered thoughts on the YAM 1 at NRM thread.
It may be ultimately an Indian mountain climbing diesel loco. Built for
2 " gauge
(DHR) and MG (NMR) with optional rack mechanism.
I am still shaken by what I have read in the KR website yesterday. I
cannot get the
fact out of my head that a concrete pillar used for the Panvel viaduct
was done in 12
days ! I do not think we should look for similar examples around the
world.
India can do it if a motivated team of technocrats with sufficient
autonomy is let
loose on the DHR/ NMR motive power problems.
Racks and funiculars are found in places where the novelty of having a
railway there
is more important than the economy of running a line. I guess the NMR is
the only rack
railway in a third world country. We got the NMR because the British saw
it fit to
have a hill station out of Ooty.
How much priority does the NMR and DHR have today on a national level ?
Who would build the mountain climbing loco ? CLW has given up on making
any hydraulic
locos (for that matter any diesel loco). DLW is too busy with WDG 2s,
WDG4s and WAP 2s
(there are hardly any WDM 2s being manufactured this year). The days of
the 'M'
locomotives seem to be numbered.
So it would have to be smaller private manufacturers like Suri and Nair,
Ventra...
If the SR can use the YAM on the NMR, surely they can convert YDM 4 to
run on a rack
section. That seems quite feasible.
Apurva
"Anand I.S." wrote:
> Hi everybody,
>
> I certainly don't feel it is a LOONY idea.
From: Zubin Lee <>
Subject: WCAM-3 on shunting duties ?
Date: 24 Oct 1999 10:24:08 -0500
folks,
happened to go to mumbai on sat by 1008 up deccan exp. i was surprised
to
see the stabled rake being brought to pf #1 by KYN WCAM-3 21933 ! as is
expected, the loco was air brake only. since my coach was 13th from
engine,
however, i couldent make out whether the same loco was later used to
haul
the train upto mumbai. i thought that the shunting job was to be handled
by
WDS-4D's or WDS6's only. i also saw two MUed WCAG-1's (21970 & 21973,
dual
brake, both KYN shed) running light. they were probably going in to take
their train, i guess.
i returned on sunday by 2123 dn dq. i saw a couple of WCAM-3's in a
different colour scheme. they were basically dark blue, but there was a
mustard yellow stripe going down the cooling vents on the sides. at the
top
and bottom of the yellow stripe were two thin red strips. seems that cr
is
trying out a new colour scheme. one of the WCAM-3's (21960) was at CSTM
trip
shed, while the other was at CLA(T).
any inputs, anybody ?
~zubin.
(<A HREF="http://zubin.gen-next.com/)">http://zubin.gen-next.com/)</A>
From: S.Shankar <>
Subject: Re: WCAM-3 on shunting duties ?
Date: 24 Oct 1999 12:34:09 -0500
Hello,
On occasion, a main line electric engine is used for shunting both at
Bombay as well as at Poona, especially at Poona.
There are plenty of WDS/4s to go around at Bombay, but Poona has a
limited number. Every once in a way, a spare loco is pulled out of the
electric shed and used for a short while, while the regular shunter is
away, probably for maintenance or doing switching duties from one goods
shed to another.
I have seen shunting at Poona performed by WCM/3, WCM/2, WCG/2 and WCM/5
locomotives.
The possibility of using a spare electric at Bombay is limited due to
the large number of diesel shunters avaialble, but then once in a while,
the need does arise.
At Howrah station, at at times even in Bombay VT, the locomotive that
brought in the train in the first place runs up all the way till the
dead end, and waits patiently till all the passengers have been
disgorged and the train unloaded. (mail,parcels etc).
The that engine itself reverses along with the entire train into the
yard. The engine then returns to shed after leaving the train in the
yard. THis is another form of shunting with main line locomotives.
It will be of interest to not that the actual drivers do not indulge in
such menial tasks. Even if the same engine were to continue, as in your
case, it will be the shunting masters who do the shunting. The drivers
will get in at the last minute, when the train is ready to depart.
THe Vasco Mail being shunted (see the diesel page of my superrailway
site) was by a similar arrangement, where the engine that brought the
train in from the yard moved out with the same engine, though after a
change of drivers.
Cheers.
Shankar
Zubin Lee wrote:
>
> folks,
>
> happened to go to mumbai on sat by 1008 up deccan exp. i was surprised
to
> see the stabled rake being brought to pf #1 by KYN WCAM-3 21933 ! as
is
> expected, the loco was air brake only. since my coach was 13th from
engine,
> however, i couldent make out whether the same loco was later used to
haul
> the train upto mumbai. i thought that the shunting job was to be
handled by
> WDS-4D's or WDS6's only. i also saw two MUed WCAG-1's (21970 & 21973,
dual
> brake, both KYN shed) running light. they were probably going in to
take
> their train, i guess.
>
> i returned on sunday by 2123 dn dq. i saw a couple of WCAM-3's in a
> different colour scheme. they were basically dark blue, but there was
a
> mustard yellow stripe going down the cooling vents on the sides. at
the top
> and bottom of the yellow stripe were two thin red strips. seems that
cr is
> trying out a new colour scheme. one of the WCAM-3's (21960) was at
CSTM trip
> shed, while the other was at CLA(T).
>
> any inputs, anybody ?
>
> ~zubin.
> (<A HREF="http://zubin.gen-next.com/)">http://zubin.gen-next.com/)</A>
From: Sarosh B. Mehta <>
Subject: Re: KONKAN RAILWAY SITE HAS BEEN LOCATED - Re: Needs tips for KR travel
Date: 24 Oct 1999 19:34:31 -0500
Hello, Rajan,
Thanks a zillion for these wonderful 'tips'. What I intend to do is iron out a few queries for the gang on this trip. I too have a cam-corder but I shall also use my good ole camera.
Sarosh
----------
> From: Rajan Mathew <rajanmathew@telebot.email
> To: Mehta, Sarosh <sarosh>; Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email irfca@cs.email Vijay Balasubramanian <VBalasubramanian@softrax.email
> Subject: KONKAN RAILWAY SITE HAS BEEN LOCATED - Re: Needs tips for KR travel
> Date: Friday, October 22, 1999 11:47 AM
>
> GANG ....
>
> JUST BEEN SURFING A BIT YESTERDAY AND FOUND THE KONKAN RAILWAY SITE
> HERE'S THE ADDRESS
>
> <A HREF="http://www.konkanrailway.com/">http://www.konkanrailway.com/</A>
>
> TIMETABLE, CURRENT RUNNING UPDATES, A HISTORY , BACKGROUND AND A LOT OF
> USEFUL INFORMATION WITH A FEW PIX ALSO
>
> CHECK IT OUT
>
> (PS i got this by visiting the page
> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/irasmumbai/">http://www.geocities.com/irasmumbai/</A>
> check this page out too .... )
>
> Rajan
>
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: Re: NRM elecfn.
Date: 24 Oct 1999 20:53:06 -0500
Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> It may be ultimately an Indian mountain climbing diesel loco.
> Built for 2 " gauge (DHR) and MG (NMR) with optional rack mechanism.
Hmm...it would need to be built to the DHR loading gauge even if
designed to be modified to MG for the NMR. Fair amount of design
required here so that it can be optimised for conditions on both
lines (use the same frame and cab, change the power trucks and
the prime movers etc). Otherwise, a diesel would not require
the high cost of OHE installation, but would not be as clean
as electric traction.
> India can do it if a motivated team of technocrats with
> sufficient autonomy is let loose on the DHR/ NMR motive
> power problems.
I think the only major problem with Indian engineers is
a tendency to lose either the big picture or the details.
A project like this would need confident cost committment,
very clear engineering directives, no political or bureaucratic
interference, and the will to see it through. The technical
skills are certainly available in India if harnessed properly.
> How much priority does the NMR and DHR have today on a national level
?
It seems to me that they are to be retained as tourist operations
primarily. We have already had major threads on IRFCA about
possible economic freight haulage on the DHR (with some
great insights from Dr Walker), but, not knowing much
about the NMR and the region, I cannot comment on what
may be possible there (Folks who know the NMR: Please
share your ideas !).
> So it would have to be smaller private manufacturers like Suri
> and Nair, Ventra..
I suppose anyone who makes industrial shunters could make a series
of loco frames and bodies to a given design. The special wheelsets
may need sourcing, but a range of engines should be available
within India.
> .....surely they can convert YDM 4 to run on a rack
> section. That seems quite feasible.
The main difficulty in converting the YDM4 to rack operation
would be same as with a YAM4: finding space on one or more
drive axles for another pinion to engage with the rack.
I should imagine that the axle-mounted traction motors on a
YDM4 are even more tightly packaged than the BG WDM2,
considering the limited width of the MG axles. Again, it
may be interesting to see how the Swiss MG rack locos
have their traction motors arranged: does anyone have
any idea ?
--
JS
--
From: Jayant S <>
Subject: NRM elecfn: Some info on Swiss locos
Date: 24 Oct 1999 21:20:02 -0500
<A HREF="http://www.rail-info.ch/technik.en.html">http://www.rail-info.ch/technik.en.html</A>
Unfortunately, I still cannot figure out
what the technical arrangement of Swiss rack
locos is: but can certainly see that their
railways have far larger operating budgets
than the NMR.
-JS-