IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 881 - 900

Previous 20 Messages          Archive Index          Next 20 Messages

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@usl.email

Subject: Re:Re: Elec. v/s diesel locos. (Part I)

Date: 17 Jun 1992 10:37:00 -0500


In-Reply-To: <9206112108.AA14241@mimsy.email
References: <9206112108.AA14241@mimsy.email

Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 11-Jun-92 Elec. v/s diesel locos. (Pa..
VIJAYB@PK705VMG.EMAIL (4360*)

> Satish writes:
> >I believe the general feeling is that electrification is a Good Thing. Why
> >is this so? What are the advantages of electric locos over diesel locos?

> Here is some relevant material from the 1991 Oct.-Nov. issue of Indian
> Railways. My comments in brackets.

[ Lot of real good stuff deleted for brevity ]

> In the next segment, I'll provide some info. on characteristics of electric
> and diesel traction (from the book:- Advanced Rly. Operation)

Has this next segment come out yet? I haven't seen it in my mailbox, so
if it has come out could someone mail me a copy.

Many of you old-timers on IRFCA will recall that we had discussed this
issue (actually steam vs. electric then vs. diesel vs. electric now) way
back in 1990. I went back into my files and managed to dig out a
message that I had posted, but couldn't find messages posted by others
on this subject at that time. To bring back memories of that previous
discussion included below is what I had posted in response to a message
from Atul Patankar:

Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 17-Sep-90 Re: efficiency of steam vs .. J
Mukerji@mtgzx.email (1848)

> Excerpts from mail: 16-Sep-90 "Atul A. Patankar"@ms.email (950)

> > On the recent topic on steam locos : if coal is used in the thermal power
> > plants to generate electricity and then the electricity is used to move
> > trains, can anybody give an idea of the efficiency of each of these
> > processes? eg, if the plant is 30% efficient and the loco engine is 30%
> > efficient, this together is only 9% efficient. The steam loco, if say 15%
> > efficienrt, may still be a better option energy conservationwise, not
> > mentioning that the "overheads" are huge for electric traction.

> Electric locomotives themselves are extremely efficient energy
> converters. Their efficiency typically is in the 90% to 95%
> range.However, to do the total energy computation there are many more
> things that need to be taken into consideration. For example:

> For steam traction: energy used in process and transporting coal to each
> coal loading point needs to be included in the equation.

> For electric traction: energy used to process and transport
> coal/oil/uranium to power plant and the energy lost in power
> transmission needs to be taken into account in addition to the obvious
> efficiency of electricity generation and conversion into mechanical
> power.

> Note that these are the recurring costs. There is also a one time cost
> of setting the whole thing up and a small recurring cost of maintaining
> the setup.

> On the whole for high traffic densities electric comes out better than
> both steam and diesel by a very long shot. It is also environmentally
> much cleaner than the other two.

While the traction that electric is being compared to has changed from
steam to diesel, the issues remain similar I think. I must admit I don't
know how to include environmental cost nicely in the model, but that is
important too. For example, it is easier to build exhaust cleaners in
static coal or diesel generators than on mobile ones, due to space and
weight contraints inherent in mobile ones.

It would be neat to see if the conclusions reached then were any
different from those reached now. Anyone have the other messages
exchanged in that series?

Jishnu.

From: apte <apte@glacier.email

Subject: In defence of Electric Traction

Date: 17 Jun 1992 08:18:00 -0500


Cc: apte@glacier.email
Subject: In defence of Electric Traction
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 Jun 92 10:37:05 -0400.
<EeDosFCH0akyM0n0Ep@usl.email
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 10:18:56 PDT
From: apte@glacier.email


Here's my 2c worth on the Electric vs Diesel controversy. Let me say
at the outset, that not having done extensive research on the
topic, I cannot reel off statistics on efficiencies, environmental
impact, etc. - and I'd really like to see a summary of these statistics
posted, if anyone has them. Anyway, I'd like to restrict myself to a
few intuitive/common sense points that occur to me, that makes electric
traction come out ahead.

1. Long-term policy

Electric traction offers a GENERAL framework for running
locomotives - i.e. electricity can be generated by coal-burning power
plants, oil, nuclear energy, hydel-power, and maybe by solar power at some
point in time. Ironically, the so-called "diesel" locos are themselves
in a sense electric locos since they use the diesel fuel to run an
electric generator. It seems to make a lot of sense to me to build an
electric traction based railway system, because that way you are not
tied down to one fuel resource; but you can use any one that is the
most efficient. (A good example is France, where I believe that
75% of the power is generated from nuclear power.)

2. Efficiency & Environmental Impact

Let us assume for the sake of argument, that only fuel-burning power
plants are in vogue, and then compare individual locos running on
that fuel vs a power-plant that burns the *same* fuel and runs an
electric traction-based system.
Fuel consumed and the net emmisions are presumably proportional to each
other, so that any improvement in efficiency should
also automatically translate to a reduced environmental impact.
Here's my claim: the *net* fuel consumption, (and emissions)
would come out in favor of electric traction as the VOLUME of
the system increases. In other words, if we compare
"x" number of locos running on coal/oil; vs "x" number of
electric locos running off a coal/oil burning plant, as x increases
electric traction would start winning.
If x=2, the oil-based locos would beat the electric
traction, becasue I presume that the power plant would have to consume
some minimum fuel quantum; which would be more
than that of 2 coal/oil locos. But now lets start loading the system,
increase x upto 100, 500 ... I believe, that there will be a
threshold above which the consumption of fuel PER ADDED LOCMOTIVE UNIT,
should be less for electric traction. So for a highly loaded railway
system, I believe that electric traction should come out way ahead, due
to simple economies of scale.

3. Static vs Mobile Units

This point was alluded to by Jishnu, earlier.
In any field, technology is always
more mature for static units vs mobile units, simply because the motion
of the latter necessarily complicates the problems. Also, if the net
quality of the emissions is the same, then the static unit gives you
the added choice of choosing a least harmful location in terms of
environmental impact. For instance it could be away from populated
areas. The mobile unit, on the other hand, must necessary spread its
emissions all over the passengers of the train (esp. in non-A/C trains
of India), and over all the parts of the country it travels over.

I'll close here, with my arguments in favor of electric traction, and I
would love to hear both counter-, and pro- views of other netters.
Finally, a caveat for me - I guess... intuition is often wrong - we'd
be believing that the earth is flat if we'd trusted intuition :-).


Pushkar
-------

From: apte <apte@glacier.email

Subject: The soul of a station, and its fans

Date: 17 Jun 1992 08:30:00 -0500


In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 Jun 92 10:37:05 -0400.
<EeDosFCH0akyM0n0Ep@usl.email
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 92 10:30:08 PDT
From: apte@glacier.email


How train fans got linked with station souls is more than I can figure
out, but I'll fan the flames of station souls a little further. I
completely agree that station in the U.S. lack the "soul" that good ol' desi
stations display. A little hut with nobody in it, to me, defines a
soulless station. A station bustling with activity, the jingling chai
glasses, the hot stuff - the samosas, the vadais, the dosas; the masala
milks, the incoherent and ear-drum smashing announcements, the
classic pungent odor (I dare not guess of what :-))
- that is the soul of a station, IMHO. But then, that's one man's
opinion...

Pushkar
-------

From: P. I. Arasu <aras@ms.email

Subject: Re: In defence of Electric Traction

Date: 17 Jun 1992 14:00:00 -0500


To add to your arguement, while both diesal engines and electric
engines cause pollution, electric engines cause pollution in
places less densely populated (which is where power stations
are located normally). The environment may more easily absorb
this pollution. Diesal engines add to the pollution in the cities.
ex. Basin Bridge Junction and the area around the Madras General
Hospital (opposite to the Central Station) were the two most
polluted places in Madras city a few years back, thanks I'm
sure, in no small part to polluting train engines.

Also by my comments about the "soullessness" of US train stations
I seem to have tread on atleast one person's (unseen) feet.
My comment was meant to taken lightly and was definetely not
a slight. The matter is closed(My mind is not)!

-arasu

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: Re: More Random Ramblings!

Date: 17 Jun 1992 14:02:00 -0500


> > Also are train coaches made anywhere other than Perambur?
>
> Kapurthala Coach Facotry.

Also BEML (Bharat Earth Movers Ltd) --
probably Bangalore.

The metro rail coaches are made by BHEL .

From: Vicraj T. Thomas <vic@cs.email

Subject: Re: Steam Locos

Date: 17 Jun 1992 09:07:00 -0500


>
> Pai@CS.Email writes:
>
> > I'd greatly appreciate if any of you could send me information on such
> > train rides in other places in the US. There must be quite a few,
> > considering that there are so many railway buffs in this country...
>

There is a steam train that runs from Williams in Arizona to the South Rim of
the Grand Canyon. This train used to run till the 1940s and was reinstated
about 3 years ago. Since it is primarily for tourists, the ride includes a
staged train robbery--at one point in its run bandits on horses stop the train
and "attack" it.

Williams is about 60 miles South of the Grand Canyon and lies on the
Chicago-Santa Fe-San Francisco Santa Fe line. When Amtrak started running
passenger services on this line it started a Grand Canyon service where
passengers got off at Flagstaff (a much bigger town 70 miles East of Williams)
and connected with a bus that went up the the Grand Canyon. At the same time,
a bus from the Canyon connected with the train. It would seem that now that
there is a train from Williams to the Grand Canyon, Amtrak could stop at
Williams and connect with the steam train so people could ride the train all
the way to the Canyon. I don't think this will happen in the near future (if
at all) because the steam train is run by a different organization and trying
to connect the two trains would mean radically changing the schedule of the
steam train.

The other steam train ride I know of is the Dugrango-Silverton Narrow Gauge
train in Southwest Colorado (almost at the New Mexico border). This is
supposed to be a very scenic ride through the San Juan mountains. I think
this line was built by BNR.

< Vic

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@usl.email

Subject: Re: Elec. v/s diesel locos. (Part I)

Date: 17 Jun 1992 14:19:00 -0500


Ashish Gupta writes about the ongoing deisel vs. electric debate:

Excerpts from mail: 17-Jun-92 Re: Elec. v/s diesel locos... Ashish
Gupta@SEAS.Email (2850*)

> I think we must stop this debate on elec. vs. diesel now. It is not
> going anywhere. Pai and I have discussed it for ages now, and
> seem in total agreement, that elec must be more beneficial only if it is
> nuclear or hydro power.

Fine, you don't want to discuss it then don't. However, let me point out
that neither you nor anyone else has told us what you are going to do
with the nuclear waste that comes out of nuclear power plants., and why
that should be considered any less harmful for the environment than
fossil fuel exhausts. Also you have not explained to us why dam building
and consequent destruction of forests and natural habitat is any less
environmentally destructive than burning fossil fuels. Of course given
ones biases on these issues one can always state an opinion, but that in
no way should conclude the debate.

Jishnu.

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: diesel and electric locos

Date: 17 Jun 1992 14:38:00 -0500


There are some points I would like to clarify.The global resources of diesel
is expected to give out in about fifty years[even if it does not it will
become prohibitively expensive].So as far as long term planning goes,this must
be taken into account[e.g. californian law requires manufacturers to market electric cars to 10% of total capacity by 1997 if I remember correctly].

In India however extensive electrification is not altogether dependable.Our
power production is miserable and is falling behind requirements by larger
and larger margins.[remember the five year goals that we used to study in
school?]Often other problems too occur like in 1991 the eastern grid was totally
crippled due to overloading and for several days there was absolutely no
electricity.I cannot imgine a more trying experience than being stranded on
a long-journey on IR!

Electrification also has a recurrring cost in the form of theft of cables etc.
When I used to regularly travel from delhi to calcutta,one of the major
problems was cable theft especially in bihar which would keep us stranded for
hours.

From: S Pai <Pai@CS.email

Subject: Re: Elec. v/s diesel locos. (Part I)

Date: 17 Jun 1992 14:43:00 -0500


JM = Jishnu Mukerji
AG = Ashish Gupta

JM> Ashish Gupta writes about the ongoing deisel vs. electric debate:

AG> I think we must stop this debate on elec. vs. diesel now. It is not going
AG> anywhere. Pai and I have discussed it for ages now, and seem in
AG> total agreement, that elec must be more beneficial only if it is nuclear or
AG> hydro power.

Wait, hold on, I am not aware of any such conclusion on my part... I did say
to Ashish Gupta once a while back that I wasn't sure that coal burning is the
best way to go because of some problems. I hardly think my opinions constitute
the final word on the topic! Besides, I've hardly been discussing this for
"ages".

And I have NOT come to any sort of firm conclusion that nuclear or hydel power
is the only way that electric traction will be advantageous compared to diesel.

Please don't put words in my mouth!!

JM> Fine, you don't want to discuss it then don't. However, let me point out
JM> that neither you nor anyone else has told us what you are going to do with
JM> the nuclear waste that comes out of nuclear power plants., and why that
JM> should be considered any less harmful for the environment than fossil fuel
JM> exhausts. Also you have not explained to us why dam building and consequent
JM> destruction of forests and natural habitat is any less environmentally
JM> destructive than burning fossil fuels. Of course given ones biases on these
JM> issues one can always state an opinion, but that in no way should conclude
JM> the debate.

I hope the debate is not concluded; I have _lots_ of things I'd like to learn
about all these issues, and my mind is by no means closed on the issue.

Please do share your views/opinions about the different modes of railway
traction and their advantages or disadvantages.

Cheers,

-Satish

From: S Pai <Pai@CS.email

Subject: Re: diesel and electric locos

Date: 17 Jun 1992 15:00:00 -0500


SD = Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

SD> There are some points I would like to clarify.The global resources of
SD> diesel is expected to give out in about fifty years[even if it does not it
SD> will become prohibitively expensive].

True. But every form of energy production seems to have problems, be it hydel
or nuclear or thermal. If only someone would get around to developing cheap
fusion power plants!! :-)

Regarding hydel power, there seems to be a trend nowadays in India to advocate
microhydel plants as the "politically correct" solution to power requirements,
and to frown upon giant hydel projects. Since nuclear power is also almost a
taboo (besides its problems of waste as was pointed out in an earlier message)
I wonder how the electrification process is expected to be powered in the next
several decades. Looks like for practical purposes we may be tied to polluting
coal-fired plants for a long time to come, though there may be a few new hydel
or nuclear plants coming up.

SD> Electrification also has a recurrring cost in the form of theft of cables
SD> etc. When I used to regularly travel from delhi to calcutta,one of the
SD> major problems was cable theft especially in bihar which would keep us
SD> stranded for hours.

Does this require the assistance of railway staff in some way, to power down
the lines perhaps? It seems to be a non-trivial task to steal electrically
"hot" cables that carry enough of a zing to kill someone easily.

-Satish

From: VIJAYB <VIJAYB@PK705VMG.EMAIL

Subject: Steam v/s Diesel v/s Electric - Part I

Date: 17 Jun 1992 15:12:00 -0500


Hi Folks,
IRFCA has definitely been revitalized. Way to go! Here's some interesting
info. from the "Advanced Rly. Operation" book. My comments in brackets:-
Characteristics of various types of traction
--------------------------------------------
Steam:- 1. Coal (or oil) fired. [Is oil firing practised in India? I would
------- presume not]
2. Simple in design - has not changed substantially since its invention
by George Stephenson.
3. Variable regulation under direct control of driver - individual skill
counts [e.g sounding the whistle :-) ]
4. Reciprocating motion (obtained by admission of steam alternatively on
either sides of the piston in the cylinder), non-uniform torque, and
riding disturbances (oscillation, nosing, rolling, hunting, lurch,
shuttling).
5. As the piston is directly connected with the rotation of the driving
wheel, steam loco. has a rising power characteristic as speed
increases. Hence, steam loco. is measured by the tractive effort
and not by horsepower.
6. There is loss of overall power when trains are double-headed. Two
sets of crew are needed.

Diesel:- 1. Diesel engine, perhaps the most efficient primemover yet developed.
------
2. The motors are not directly coupled to the loco. wheels - this is done
thru' a transmission system which is either mechanical, electric or
hydraulic [isn't the Suri hydro-mechanical transmission used in Indian
locos?]
3. The horsepower is a function of the motor speed and the diesel can
develop its full power over the whole range of the loco. speed
4. As two diesel locos can be electrically coupled, there is no loss of
power when trains are double-headed and one set of crew can work the
train.
5. Used extensively in America. Dramatic change over from steam to diesel
in 1940. Use generally connected with the availibilty of oil [wish I
could say that now!]

Electric:- 1. Electric energy is supplied from a stationary prime mover and
---------- converted into mechanical energy in the loco.
2. Can be DC or AC. DC - 1500 volts [Howrah - Bandel used to be 3000 v]
AC - 25 KV at industrial frequency
3. Very high overload capacity (as energy is drawn from outside source)
and can negotiate gradients easily [it is not surprising that the
Ghat sections around Bombay were one of the first to be electrified]
4. Cost of AC electrification cheaper; higher adhesion. Disadv:- unbala
nce on supply system and disturbance on telecommunications. 25 kv
AC is the standard adopted on Indian rlwys.
5. Due to heavy installation cost, can only be used when traffic density
reaches a certain level.
6. Has a great future as modern thermal stations have made great progress
in efficiency, while oil reserves are gradually getting depleted.
[expecting some comments here :-) ]

More to follow soon.

Regards,
Vijay

From: raja <raja@cps.email

Subject: Re: diesel and electric locos

Date: 17 Jun 1992 15:25:00 -0500


> Our power production is miserable and is falling behind requirements by
> larger and larger margins.

Power production is in fact one of the
success stories and high-growth areas
of Indian industry... Generating capacity
has grown from about 22,000 MW (~1984) to
over 60,000 MW at present, and is likely
to cross 1,00,000 MW by the year 2000. Annual
growth of installed capacity has hovered around
10% or higher for most of the last decade.

Of course, demand has grown even faster --
but to be fair, one cannot say that "power
production is miserable." In particular,
the National Thermal Power Corporation
(NTPC) is one of the rare public sector
organizations which consistently completes
its projects *ahead* of schedule and makes
a profit too.

Just for information...

Regards,


Raja.


----- End Included Message -----


I was only speaking from day to day experience.I do not know if you come from
highly developed parts in the west and north,but in west bengal for instance
the situation is really miserable[there is no more suitable word].

You are quite right about the NTPC.But the SEBs have generally failed to do
much about this problem[exceptions again for MSEB etc.]Some part of the problem has been caused by earlier complacency.In WB for example in the sixties,a power
minister said "Ar power diyey ki korbo?Khabo?"[what shall we require more power for:to eat?]Such attitudes have resulted in a massive lag.

The other part of the story is really peculiar.In west Bengal for example if the
power stations operate at their full capacities[eg a 500MW plant produces 500MW
then WB would be indeed a power surplus state.But the plants operate at a pf of
as low as 20%.Several reasons are cited;wet coal/inferior quality coal supplied
malfunctioning boilers[the cpm govt. even alleges that bhel supplies substandard boilers on purpose!]and finally sabotage.The new kolaghat plant[10 years behind
schedule]was twice stopped.Once a mallet was found on a turbine blade and in
another case it was an attack of mice.Talk about acts of God.

The significance of this as far as electrification goes is as follows.IR has a
facility to partition the supply,eg if there is power shortage in WB the trains
onward from Mughalsarai will have no problem.But the partitioning stops there.
The Mughalsarai-dhanbad stretch will still be out of power.Its really strange
that IR cannot be more flexible in this matter.

Regards,siddhartha.

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@usl.email

Subject: Re: diesel and electric locos

Date: 17 Jun 1992 15:32:00 -0500


Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 17-Jun-92 Re: diesel and electric locos A.
S Pai@CS.Email (1500*)

> Does this require the assistance of railway staff in some way, to power
> down the lines perhaps? It seems to be a non-trivial task to steal
> electrically "hot" cables that carry enough of a zing to kill someone
> easily.

This is easily achieved without the aid of railway staff. I have seen it
done right before my eyes on the Dum Dum Jn. Dankuni link. What they do
is they get this long piece of wire of some conducting material. They
tie one end of it to the rails and then they have a competition to see
who can toss the other end over the catenary. The one who succeeds
shorts out the catenary and trips the CB on the feeder. Then onwards the
line is dead and they can take the wires down and take them home or
wherever.

Jishnu.

From: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@usl.email

Subject: Re: In defence of Electric Traction

Date: 17 Jun 1992 15:52:00 -0500


Excerpts from personal.IRFCA: 17-Jun-92 Re: In defence of Electric ..
"P. I. Arasu"@ms.email (800*)

> Also by my comments about the "soullessness" of US train stations
> I seem to have tread on atleast one person's (unseen) feet.
> My comment was meant to taken lightly and was definetely not
> a slight. The matter is closed(My mind is not)!

I suspect the said person alluded to above is me, so let me clarify. I
have no argument with the fact that US stations are "soulless". American
train stations, barring a few are almost as lifeless as you can get in
train stations. If one goes back and reads what I wrote one will find
that I was mostly taking issue with the assertion that "I don't believe
there are any train fans in this country!", and even that with a few
smileys thrown in here and there. Since I did not see a :-) next to
that I assumed that the author was making a serious statement. Sorry
about the misunderstanding.

Gosh, all this traffic on irfca is a welcome change from the deadly
silence of last week!

Jishnu.

From: Siddhartha Duttagupta <prakash@ee.email

Subject: random ramblings

Date: 17 Jun 1992 16:00:00 -0500


S Pai says

Does this require the assistance of railway staff in some way, to power down
the lines perhaps? It seems to be a non-trivial task to steal electrically
"hot" cables that carry enough of a zing to kill someone easily.

You know what!In calcutta the recent trend while committing suicide is apparently the metrorail [which has a live third rail].It creates the
desired attention and offcourse the pleasure in the fact that thousands of
people were inconvenienced.

Is this especially an Indian trait? At one time
I used to frequently commute on the HWH-KGP line and the people used to say
that till all the flashpoints have crossed:bagnan,bauria,andul they cannot
predict the arrival time.I have seen people block the tracks for no more
complicated reason than why funds for the local football[ok ok soccer] ground
have not been provided.Offcourse the one that takes the cake was like this.
Our train had been stopped by squatters at bagnan[75 km from kgp in the total
116km stretch.]for thirty minutes after which [we did have experienced
negotiators on board]it thankfully proceeded towards howrah.However, only after
some thirty minutes when complacence was settling in and one could detect a
desire for small talk when the train came to a halt.This time the squatters werevery angry.The train is late by thirty minutes they said.Our explanation that
their brothers some 25km down the line were responsible fell on deaf ears.Even
when some granted that there might be some truth in our claims it was with a
different perspective altogether."THEY MUST ALSO HAVE HAD SOME VALID REASONS"
one person argued.............
We reached calcutta some six hours behind schedule.I had spent my bus fare on
a rare tea-on-me spirit .No problem said my train-friends.One for all and all
for one is our motto.They put me aboard a S-32 and told the conductor "dada
kharagpurer cheley bujheychen,anek kosto korey kolkata esheychey ;baki rastata
bhalo korey niyey jaben"[Dada this is an yokel from kharagpur.He has had lot of
problems while travelling to calcutta(you know when country people come to visit the city what happens....).Please ensure that he has a good journey
on the remaining stretch].The conductor gave a knowing wink and said "chinta
nei onakey baritey pouchey diyey tobey amar duty shesh"[I will personally
escort him home,that is my duty]
I thought that was pretty neat.We certainly had lost a lot of calories arguing
but I gained a lot of friends that day.
My apologies for rambling but I thought some "down memory lane" would not be
"beyond the scope" of irfca.
Siddhartha.

From: Ajai Banarji <banarji@unixg.email

Subject:

Date: 17 Jun 1992 11:45:00 -0500


NEWS ETC

The traffic on irfca seems to be at an all-time high. Dheeraj, how
many members do we have now?
The new timetable is to come into force from July 1. As in the last
few years, a few new services (which were not mentioned in the budget)
are being introduced. One is a Nizamuddin-Sambalpur bi-weekly express
which will share the rake and part of the route with the Samta Express
(Nizamuddin-Vizag via Nagpur and Raipur). Another is a bi-weekly
express from Nizamuddin to Ernakulam (as the Kerala Express is not
adequate to cover all the traffic to Kerala).
My comment: Actually, the Kerala Express also serves a large part
of Tamil Nadu (Salem, Erode, Tiruppur, Coimbatore etc). There is certainly
enough passenger traffic from Kerala. It may be better to either extend
the GT or TN expresses to Coimbatore, or at least have more through coaches
to destinations south of Madras. Or do something to improve the Jammu-Madras,
Himsagar and Navyug expresses.
If the trains to Tirunelveli and Tuticorin are to run via Erode, this
will create even more congestion. Look at the number of trains on the
Madras-Erode route.
To answer a few questions:
Telco Jamshedpur was building steam locos (mainly YP and YG)-but the
last one rolled out in 1972. Prior to Chittaranjan the BB&CI was building
steam locos at Ajmer. There was some limited manufacture at the workshops
in Jamalpur and Moghalpura (Lahore).
A good account of the Rail Museum in Delhi can be found in "India by Rail"
by Royston Ellis. Did you know that there is a smaller museum in Mysore?

From: S Pai <Pai@CS.email

Subject: more random ramblings : train delays

Date: 17 Jun 1992 16:50:00 -0500


And then there was this one journey (in '87 I think, but not sure) from MAS to
SBC (Bangalore Mail) that got delayed about 50 km from Bangalore because of a
strange occurrence. Squatters on the track (supporters of Raj Kumar's
pro-Kannada activities) had decided to delay a few trains to drive home their
points. The usual large log or tree trunk was obtained and placed across the
tracks in the approved manner in order to convince the driver not to proceed
further down the tracks. Now, normally, the agitators just sit around delaying
the train. But in this case, they decided to kidnap the driver and his
assistant, and to leave the site! This happened at around 4am, I guess, and it
wasn't till about 6am that passengers on the train realized that this was no
ordinary delay... :-) Someone must have got down to ask the driver why there
was a delay, only to find the loco cabin empty, and a tree trunk across the
tracks.

It took until 11am for the cops to reach the place in their jeeps, and some
more time before a replacement driver was brought there from some place.
Meanwhile, some enterprising souls from the nearby villages had already set up
temporary chai-stands and were hawking bananas and other stuff! The train
finally reached SBC around 1pm (about 7 hours late).

-Satish

PS: Does anyone know _why_ Bangalore City is given the code "SBC"? Where does
the "S" in it come from? And does anyone have a (more-or-less) complete
listing of these station codes or know where I can find them?

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <dheeraj>>

Subject:

Date: 17 Jun 1992 17:24:00 -0500


> The traffic on irfca seems to be at an all-time high. Dheeraj, how
> many members do we have now?


It has not broken any records yet. I have monthly statistics on the
traffic on this list. The highest ever traffic was in May '91 when
the total amount of mail received by me was 340734 Bytes. This month,
as we speak, I have only received 105078 Bytes of mail. In fact, there
have been following months with more mail than now:

Sep 90 109202
Aug 91 121191
Oct 90 122521
Sep 89 132159
Mar 90 163069
Oct 89 220183

We are 55 members as of now.

-dheeraj

From: Manish Malhotra <malhotra@cs.email

Subject: Re: Steam Locos...

Date: 18 Jun 1992 10:39:00 -0500


It is true that Delhi musuem has some well-preserved steam locos.
However, I am not sure if they are maintained in operational
condition. My feeling is that those are just kept as specimens,
not to be used again, but only for museum purposes.
Does anyone know about this ? I remember someone on IRFCA once
mentioning about a trip to some railway museum in India
(Delhi perhaps ??).

Manish

From: Manish Malhotra <malhotra@cs.email

Subject: Re: Steam Locos

Date: 18 Jun 1992 10:49:00 -0500


I had mentioned this in a mail 8-9 months ago. In Yosemite
national park, a railroad is still
operational. They have two steam locos from 1930s. It was
built to haul logs of woods from the forest of sugarpine
trees. This operation ceased lonmg ago, but they continued
operating the locos. There is small shed with a huge assortment of tools. There is one guy who runs the engines
and maintains those. For $7 or so, one can get a ride. It is a
closed line (I mean a closed curve) of about 4-5 miles. The ride
is very scenic. The engine has to stop halfway to refuel !

The carriages are made of logs of woods, just sitting space in
the open air. During the ride, one guy explains the history of
sugarpine railroad. ON the way, they also show a rather unique
specimen of two trees, a branch of one of those has grown into
the other tree.

Manish

The content of the individual messages displayed here is subject to copyright by the original authors and may not be reproduced outside the context of IRFCA without permission.
Note: This site is not officially affiliated with Indian Railways! The official web site of Indian Railways is: http://www.indianrailways.gov.in
Site contact: webmaster@irfca.org
Copyright © 2010, IRFCA.org. About IRFCA  Contact Us  Search this site  Site Map  Links   Acknowledgements  Legal Information & Disclaimers