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From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: KR electrification

Date: 06 Oct 1999 10:19:40 -0500


I wonder what you mean by "improved signalling arrangements". KR has the
most modern signalling system (fibre optic communication) with cables
obviously, and centrally monitored from the headquarters at CBD Belapur.
Electrification however is quite necessary because of the pollution that
the
passengers suffer when the trains pass through the tunnels ... 84.95 km
combined length. more than 11 percent of the entire KR line of 760 km.

Rajan

> WITH ELECTRIFICATION AND IMPROVED
> SIGNALLING ARRANGEMENTS, YOU CAN
> PRACTICALLY HAVE DOUBLE TRAIN
> CAPACITY ON KR. AND, OF COURSE,
> THROUGH RUNNING OF ELECTRIC LOCOS
> FROM EKM (AFTER ELECTRIFICATION IS
> COMPLETE) TO MUMBAI / AHMEDABAD /
> NEW DELHI.
>
> S. SRINIVAS
>
> raymond/Polaris@polaris.email wrote:
>
> > Dear Srinivas and gang,
> >
> > KR being a single line section - it does look doubtful. I wonder how
many
> > non-freight / non-mining sections are electrified while still single
line. I
> > suppose most the electrified sections are doubled. Gang, anybody
with a
ready
> > list of elec.single lines.
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Raymond
>
>
>

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: one more ghaisal

Date: 06 Oct 1999 10:58:19 -0500


SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI wrote:
>
> Hi!
>
> On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, S.SRINIVAS wrote:
>
> > Oh my God !
> >
> > It is a repeat of the Ghaisal tragedy.
> > In London this time but, luckily,
> > with much less casualties.
> >
> Yes, there is a photo in Times of India with compartments spread
around.
> This happened in morning peak hours near Peddington Stn. near London.
> Eight to ten died in the tragedy.

See URL

<A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_466000/466835.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_466000/466835.stm</A>

for explanation of what the current theory is of what happened.

The accident took place about two miles outside Paddington Station in an
area
called Ladbroke Grove. I pass by there all the time when I am visiting
our labs
in the UK, both on Heathrow Express to the airport and on either First
Great
Western HST125 expresses or Thames Trains locals to Reading. I just
spoke with
an acquintance last night who returned to Newark from the UK yesterday,
and was
actually sitting in a Heathrow Express in Paddington about to depart,
when the
accident took place two miles away.

> > Seems like other railways are
> > catching up with IR. Will BR
> > suspend a few officers ? Let
> > us keep track.
>
> Hope they don't catch up in these matters. Members from UK will have
more
> details in next few days for us on the list.

The thing to note about this accident is that it occured in an area
where AWS is
operative. In spite of AWS apparently two yellow signals were passed at
ever
increasing speeds and then a red signal was passed. Nothing short of
full ATP
would have prevented this one. ATP would most probably have caused
emergency
brake application on the Thames Turbo as it tried to pass the previous
yellow
signal while accelarating.

The trains involved were a First Great Western HST125, and a Thames
Trains Turbo
DMU.

Jishnu.

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: New look pages

Date: 06 Oct 1999 11:25:32 -0500


Hello,
Check out my revamped pages with a new color scheme:

dc mania: <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/shankaronline/dcmania.htm">http://members.tripod.com/shankaronline/dcmania.htm</A>

ac unleashed!!!

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/9896/unleashedrevised.htm">http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/9896/unleashedrevised.htm</A>

I chose the blue and cream scheme on the dc mania page in keeping with
the standard WCM colors.

The brown on the ac unleashed!!! page is the standard IR color, an
inspiration drawn from Tim Wakeman's sites.

Cheers.

Shankar

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: one more ghaisal

Date: 06 Oct 1999 11:38:22 -0500


Hello,
Any railway tragedy is indeed very sad. May the departed souls rest in
peace.
Anytime one hears of an accident abroad, esp. in Europe, the more safe
one feels when one thinks of the good old ICF anti-telescopic integral
coaches. Its very rare that these cars telescope into each other. Good
old Swiss technology. (the anti telescopic cars are based on an old
Swiss design, I'd read somewhere).
In fact, one article in an Indian mag even suggested that if our good
old ICF coaches were to be used in Europe, they were as good as mobile
battering rams!!
The sturdy anti-telescopic design will ensure that the comparatively
weaker but more advanced cars of the European railways were shattered to
smithereens in the event of a collision.
Even in the event of high speed crashes as in Gaisal, although the press
liberally uses the word 'telescoped into the next car', thats not real
telescoping. In actual telescoping, the car is crushed from end to end
by the next one, as happened in that horrific crash in the London
underground a few years ago. I'd read somewhere that the first car was a
mere 3 odd feet in length when the second and third cars telescoped into
it. Now thats real telescoping.
Its actually the same technology that goes into building of our modern
cars: the monocoque design, where the floor is also molded along with
the body, sort of a tube formation.
India based members will appreciate how the larger Premier cars in India
suffer much more damage during collisions as compared to the tiny Maruti
Suzuki with the monocoque design. Marutis of course get totally wrecked
for another reason: their greater speed as compared to the primitive old
clunkers like Premier and Ambassador.

Shankar





Jishnu Mukerji wrote:
>
> SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI wrote:
> >
> > Hi!
> >
> > On Tue, 5 Oct 1999, S.SRINIVAS wrote:
> >
> > > Oh my God !
> > >
> > > It is a repeat of the Ghaisal tragedy.
> > > In London this time but, luckily,
> > > with much less casualties.
> > >
> > Yes, there is a photo in Times of India with compartments spread
around.
> > This happened in morning peak hours near Peddington Stn. near
London.
> > Eight to ten died in the tragedy.
>
> See URL
>
> <A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_466000/466835.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/newsid_466000/466835.stm</A>
>
> for explanation of what the current theory is of what happened.
>
> The accident took place about two miles outside Paddington Station in
an area
> called Ladbroke Grove. I pass by there all the time when I am visiting
our labs
> in the UK, both on Heathrow Express to the airport and on either First
Great
> Western HST125 expresses or Thames Trains locals to Reading. I just
spoke with
> an acquintance last night who returned to Newark from the UK
yesterday, and was
> actually sitting in a Heathrow Express in Paddington about to depart,
when the
> accident took place two miles away.
>
> > > Seems like other railways are
> > > catching up with IR. Will BR
> > > suspend a few officers ? Let
> > > us keep track.
> >
> > Hope they don't catch up in these matters. Members from UK will have
more
> > details in next few days for us on the list.
>
> The thing to note about this accident is that it occured in an area
where AWS is
> operative. In spite of AWS apparently two yellow signals were passed
at ever
> increasing speeds and then a red signal was passed. Nothing short of
full ATP
> would have prevented this one. ATP would most probably have caused
emergency
> brake application on the Thames Turbo as it tried to pass the previous
yellow
> signal while accelarating.
>
> The trains involved were a First Great Western HST125, and a Thames
Trains Turbo
> DMU.
>
> Jishnu.

From: Krishna S. Dhir <>

Subject: Re: New look pages

Date: 06 Oct 1999 14:35:46 -0500


Does anyone know about the history of Indian Railways during WWII? For
instance, any knowledge about officers of Bengal Assam Railway receiving
King's Commision in the Corps of Indian Engineers when Japanese were
threatening Indian borders?
Krishna Dhir
Professor of Business Administration
Penn State University

From: Joydeep Dutta <>

Subject: Re: Info on WAP1

Date: 06 Oct 1999 21:16:32 -0500


Hi
I was referrring to the two small plugs for the intercomm connections.
The
vertical column with the three plugs are the plugs for the multiple
operation cables used during multiple unit operation.
But locos like WAP1 or WAP3 hardly need ant MU operation.
Joydeep

The speedometer of WAP1 is calibrated to 180 km/h



>From: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
>To: 'Joydeep Dutta' <joydeepdutta@hotmail.email
>Subject: RE: Info on WAP1
>Date: Wed, 6 Oct 1999 11:29:29 -0700
>
>Hi Joydeep,
>
>Thanks for the info.
>
>Regarding the vertical columns for intercom plugs, which ones are you
>referring to - the columns of two smaller objects, or the columns of
three
>larger ones?
>
>These would be #4 and #5, respectively, in my picture at
> <A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/test/wap3img.jpg">http://threshold.simplenet.com/test/wap3img.jpg</A>
>
>Thanks,
>Shanku
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Joydeep Dutta [mailto:joydeepdutta@hotmail.email
>Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 1999 11:06 PM
>To: Shanku Niyogi
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Info on WAP1
>
>
>
>Hi
>I can help you with the following WAP1 infos
>The two pipes that you see beside the headlight are the brake cylinder
>equalizing and Main reservior pipes. These are used during
multiple-unit
>operations. Just have close look at the loco you will find the words MR
and
>BC written besides the pipes.
>The object that you see mounted on the roof top beside the whistle blow

>pipe
>
>is the flasher light used during an emergency.
>The vertical columns tha you see are the driver-gurad intercomm
connection
>plugs since WAP1 was originally desingned for the Rajdhani Express. You

>will
>
>find CR , WR , ER , written beside these plugs which indicate which
railway
>uses which plugs.
>Joydeep
>
> >From: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
> >To: "'irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> >Subject: Info on WAP1
> >Date: Mon, 4 Oct 1999 12:30:54 -0700
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >I need some information about the WAP1 - specifically, I need to know

>what
> >some of the parts visible on the WAP1 are. I'm not very well
acquainted
> >with
> >electric locomotive technology, and haven't had much of a chance to
>observe
> >a WAP1 from close up (I did see a WAP6, which had some of these parts
> >missing).
> >
> >Here are the things I need clarification about. I have a good guess
about
> >some of these, but it's probably good to clarify anyway:
> >
> >- the pair of vertical columns of three objects each on the face of
the
> >loco
> >(why don't WAP4s have these?)
> >- the pair of vertical columns of two circular objects just below the
> >windshield
> >- the hoses beside the headlight
> >- the lights on the side, by the window - what kind of lights are
these?
> >- the object mounted on the front of the cab roof (beside the horn)
> >- the square slots on the sidebody, below the window but near the
bottom.
> >- a pair of similar slots at the middle of the body (WAP4s don't seem
to
> >have these)
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Shanku
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: VIRAL DESAI <>

Subject:

Date: 31 Dec 1900 19:58:06 -0500


Hi all,
this is Viral Desai writing in. My account at home
< virald@giasbma.email <mailto:virald@giasbma.email has ceased to exist .My
new home address is < anvir@bom5.email <mailto:anvir@bom5.email PLease include this
address on your mailing list.
Thanking you,
Regards

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: A couple more questions on the WAP1

Date: 07 Oct 1999 10:03:53 -0500


Thanks to all that responded to the first round. Here are a few more
questions:

1) What is the width of a WAP1?
2) What does the cab of a WAP1 look like on the inside?

Thanks,
Shanku

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: <irfca@hyena.email... aliasing/forwarding loop broken

Date: 07 Oct 1999 11:26:35 -0500


Hello,
The irfca mailbox seemed to be down again today. THis one came back.
Cheers.
Shankar

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: [Fwd: Returned mail: <irfca@hyena.email... aliasing/forwarding loop broken

Date: 07 Oct 1999 11:28:14 -0500


Hello,
Another one of the returned mails.
This is my second unsuccessful attempt at complimenting Rajan for his
work. Poor chap, it doesn't seem to be in his luck to be lauded for good
work done :-(
Cheers.
Shankar

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: KR electrification

Date: 07 Oct 1999 12:03:56 -0500


Hello,
There was once a post from Apurva Bahadur lauding our dear Rajan as the
Konkan Railway specialist. I'd even drafted a reply to that the same
day. Unfortunately, something went wrong, and I lost all the contents of
my mailbox at that time: inbox, sent, composed mail etc. etc.

This KR post from Rajan prompts me to say what I'd said that day in that
unsent mail: THREE CHEERS to our dear KR specialist.
Its nice to see someone fousing his attentions on the
still-rare-and-hitherto-comparatively-unexplored KR. You work when
complete will be an invaluable reference work, Rajan.
I have only one complaint :-)
For all the terrific info you have posted, and for the amount of travels
you have put in on the KR, I'd like to see a photo gallery on your KR
site. Lets see some of those quaint KR stations, the push pull dmu, the
countryside, the trains, how the regular trains look on parts of the KR
(despite the monotonous standard designs, some of them do begin to look
different in different surroundings!(am I getting too
romantic?),stations, trackside furniture and misc. railway vehicles,
anything. Think about it.
In case you need any help in scanning and uploading the pics, let me
know.Always glad to help. In case sending them to Dubai will prove to
be too expensive, I'm sure (and I'm taking the liberty of saying) our
dear friend Apurva will be happy to oblige as well!
Owing to the relative novelty of the KR, what about a section of 'Whats
new on the KR' section? (just brainstorming!)
Cheers, and keep up the good work!
Shankar




Rajan Mathew wrote:
>
> I wonder what you mean by "improved signalling arrangements". KR has
the
> most modern signalling system (fibre optic communication) with cables
> obviously, and centrally monitored from the headquarters at CBD
Belapur.
> Electrification however is quite necessary because of the pollution
that the
> passengers suffer when the trains pass through the tunnels ... 84.95
km
> combined length. more than 11 percent of the entire KR line of 760 km.
>
> Rajan
>
> > WITH ELECTRIFICATION AND IMPROVED
> > SIGNALLING ARRANGEMENTS, YOU CAN
> > PRACTICALLY HAVE DOUBLE TRAIN
> > CAPACITY ON KR. AND, OF COURSE,
> > THROUGH RUNNING OF ELECTRIC LOCOS
> > FROM EKM (AFTER ELECTRIFICATION IS
> > COMPLETE) TO MUMBAI / AHMEDABAD /
> > NEW DELHI.
> >
> > S. SRINIVAS
> >
> > raymond/Polaris@polaris.email wrote:
> >
> > > Dear Srinivas and gang,
> > >
> > > KR being a single line section - it does look doubtful. I wonder
how
> many
> > > non-freight / non-mining sections are electrified while still
single
> line. I
> > > suppose most the electrified sections are doubled. Gang, anybody
with a
> ready
> > > list of elec.single lines.
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Raymond
> >
> >
> >

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: (no subject)

Date: 07 Oct 1999 12:04:02 -0500


Hello:

I have updated my links page yet again, adding Tim's return to Katpadi,
revising Vijay's url, and adding the url about photography tips and
history of hill railways in india.
The link to TIm's revised katpadi page does not work however. Everything
seems OK at my end. Tim, have you withdrawn the page temporarily or
something?
Cheers.
Shankar

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Thames Turbo ?

Date: 07 Oct 1999 12:04:11 -0500


Why does the DMU have a 'Turbo' in it's name ? Just a fancy name to
denote speed or
power, or is there a special engine (prime mover)?

It appears that the priority is not to to restore rail traffic, as is
evident from
the scattered rake, even after so many hours of the accident but to
extract the
bodies. In a similar situation the IR would first clear the tracks and
then look for
survivors.

It was clearly mentioned in the BBC news yesterday that one of the
trains jumped a
red light before the collision. The TV report showed the smaller CBC
that the BR
stock uses, I wonder if India would adopt a similar coupler soon.

Apurva

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Info on WAP1

Date: 07 Oct 1999 14:05:52 -0500




>7) These holes seem to be distinct from the step holes, which are
slightly
>higher and below the door. Another photograph I have seems to show that
>these holes have some sort of latch inside them, as opposed to the step
>inside the step hole.On this WAP3, there are also a pair of similar
holes
>near the middle of the engine.


Purely a guess, but these occur at regular intervals down the side
of the carbody. Perhaps they are access to the bolts that hold carbody
to frame? Or perhaps they are lift points for the crane?

Annie

From: HVC <>

Subject: NMR Electrification proposal.

Date: 07 Oct 1999 17:17:28 -0500


I have worked on a article for the national press against the proposed move of the IR to put NMR under wires. It is enclosed as a text file. Anyone who would prefer an MS-word file can send me a blank email and I will send it seperately off list.

I will appeciate all comments, criticism, suggestions for improvements etc. However please note that it may not be possible to incorporate them all finally for obvious reasons.

A special thanks to Anand, Bharat, John and Royston for the inputs for the content. Anybody not wishing to be quoted may also let me know.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,

Harsh

From: Krishna S. Dhir <>

Subject: Re: Thames Turbo ?

Date: 07 Oct 1999 18:58:50 -0500


At 01:17 PM 10/7/99 +0530, Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>It appears that the priority is not to to restore rail traffic, as is
evident from
>the scattered rake, even after so many hours of the accident but to
extract the
>bodies.
As is appropriate ...

In a similar situation the IR would first clear the tracks and then look
for
>survivors.
WOW! Not true, Apurva! This just ain't so!!


Krishna S. Dhir, PhD
School of Business Administration
Penn State University at Harrisburg
777 West Harrisburg Pike
Middletown, PA 17057-4898

Telephone: (717) 948-6153
Secy: (717) 948-6141
FAX: (717) 948-6456

WebSite: <A HREF="http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/k/s/ksd3/">http://www.personal.psu.edu/faculty/k/s/ksd3/</A>

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: Return to Katpadi

Date: 07 Oct 1999 20:03:09 -0500


s.shankar wrote:
>
> Hello Tim,
>
> Nice site. As usual, your photography excels. Do hurry up with your
> exclusive photography site!!
>
> Only two points: The title could be a little bolder and bigger.


Your right. I had done it in a different type, but for some reason it
came back with eye squinting letters.
>
> There is a distinct lack of diversity in railway scenes as compared to
your
> earlier site.

Your right again. I was debating on hoe to do this without so many of
the same angles. But, this was just one afternoon at the location and
these are most of what I took while there. The diesal hauled train is
the replacment for the steam train I had seen before, which is why I
decided to emphasize it.
>
> But this site shows very clearly the degree of deterioration of steam
on the
> IR, more poignantly brought out as the pics are shot at the same
location.
> The pic (two actually) in your earlier site of the steam hauled train
coming
> round the sharp curve is not something one can forget in a hurry!
>
> While the overgrown and decreipt steam shed will move even the most
hard
> hearted soul, it will almost move to tears anyone who has seen the
same shed
> in your previous site, gaily (freshly) painted in all its glory! I was
> nearly in tears myself. The dull and faded painting, shed razed to the
> ground, and the pits filled with bricks: a tragedy of epic
proportions. Will
> move even the strongest of individuals.
>
> The sunset in the last few frames was a terrific idea. Shows that the
sun
> has finally and irreversably set over steam.
>
> It will have a terrific impact(though not a pleasant one by any means)
if
> you could merge both the websites into one large website, showing the
> freshly painted glory of the steam shed, and its present tragic
condition.
>
> MAy the departed steamers rest (or at least rust) in peace.
>
> Shankar


GOOD! The page did was it was supposed to do!


Regards, Tim
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Get FREE voicemail, fax and email at <A HREF="http://voicemail.excite.com">http://voicemail.excite.com</A>
> Talk online at <A HREF="http://voicechat.excite.com">http://voicechat.excite.com</A>

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Return to Katpadi

Date: 07 Oct 1999 20:14:25 -0500


John Lacey,

Thanks for the nice comments.

Tim

(I accidently deleted your message with your address)

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: (no subject)

Date: 07 Oct 1999 20:18:43 -0500


S.Shankar wrote:
>
> Hello:
>
> I have updated my links page yet again, adding Tim's return to
Katpadi,
> revising Vijay's url, and adding the url about photography tips and
> history of hill railways in india.
> The link to TIm's revised katpadi page does not work however.
Everything
> seems OK at my end. Tim, have you withdrawn the page temporarily or
> something?
> Cheers.
> Shankar


Shanker,

Thanks for adding it in. I don't know why it is not working. I did not
remove it,(don't know how to,yet).It works fine from my bookmarks and
when I type it in. Hello? Vijay?......

Regards, Tim

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Return to Katpadi

Date: 07 Oct 1999 21:31:05 -0500


Hello Tim,
Yes, I know, it has happened to be before, with my diesel fiesta site.
To get round this problem, you need to choose any of the standard fonts,
supported by most computers.
I tried all sorts of fancy fonts initially on my diesel fiesta site, but
when I tried to open it in my office computer, I had the same problem,as
my office computer supports only the well tried and tested standard
fonts.
Even now, I'd used what I thought was a standard font. The title looks
great here at home, but in the office, I still get the samll lettering
on the title.
Try replacing the font. I'll need to do that too on my fiesta site.
Cheers.
Shankar



Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
>
> s.shankar wrote:
> >
> > Hello Tim,
> >
> > Nice site. As usual, your photography excels. Do hurry up with your
> > exclusive photography site!!
> >
> > Only two points: The title could be a little bolder and bigger.
>
> Your right. I had done it in a different type, but for some reason it
> came back with eye squinting letters.

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