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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Park Trains

Date: 28 Sep 1999 04:28:37 -0500


Do remember the 'Fulrani' (flower queen) in the Peshwe park (soo) in
Pune, this
must be over 40 - 50 years old ! It was always diesel powered and worked
an
anticlockwise loop of about 300 meters on top of animal cages in the
zoo.
However I would love to see this train stopped due to the sheer nuisance
that the
poor animals have to put up with. For that matter, I would like to see
the entire
zoo section abolished, but that is another story. Do check the item on
the Baroda
garden railway on my webpage.
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>

Apurva

"VIRAF P.. MULLA" wrote:

> >
> >
> > In Baroda, I got a real blast out of the toy train in Sayaji Bagh
park (in
> > the centre of the city, not far from the rail station and the
University of
> > Baroda).

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: CR suburban TT

Date: 28 Sep 1999 06:04:51 -0500




Rajan Mathew wrote:

> Sundar ...
>
> I didn't check this up recently but I thought that Diva - Panvel -
JNPT is
> DC. Infact just after elecrification a few years back, CR plied their
Diva
> Panvel section with WCM engines.

What is being meant here is that the type of insulators and all the
support
hardware is of the AC type but the voltage to which the OHE is connected
to is
still 1.5 KV DC type. So today only pure DC or AC/DC locos come onto
this route.
This makes a lot of sense, for all these will be charged with 25 KVAC in
the
near future (5 years ?) so why build it to DC standards ?
I think big plans are being made for the JNPT. And we shall see a lot of
freight traffic from JNPT via the BSR link to WR towards North India.
I have observed that electrification north of Andheri is also wired
with
different insulators than the ones you would find in Pune.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: [Fwd: SR News.]

Date: 28 Sep 1999 06:11:10 -0500


A left handed compliment to the whole of IRFCA from Rob, about
the sheer volume of mail. It is indeed overwhelming :-)

Any answers to why the Fairy Queen was taken to GOC for an
overhaul ? Something to do with the competency of the
workshop. Or that GOC workshop must retain the steam
overhauling facility to maintain the NMR powers?
AFAIK the Fairy Queen was rebuilt in the Perambur Loco Works
(Chennai) a couple of years ago.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 08:19:26 -0500




Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:

> Some interesting info. from the August issue of IR. ( Shankar, did you
get
> any issues between March and August? )
>

I thought of scanning and uploading this article but you beat me to it
:-)
What is this term 'full forward' that the author gloats about ? This is
what the Pune
gang know as 'Flat faced' - WAM 4, WAG 5, WCG 2 etc. Is 'full forward'
the standard
nomenclature ?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Duman Hill

Date: 28 Sep 1999 08:28:35 -0500


> There is no Duman Hill in the map. Tiger Hill is shown as the
terminus. Name
> could have been changed but I can't say for sure.

Just a wild guess - there is station with a hill in it's name on the
Barsi Light
railway. I think that is Duman Hill. The CR tt makes no mention of that,
but the
Solapur division working tt does. Will confirm when I find that book :-)
>WR,NG,Ghantoli Jn.,Songir(Not aware of this place. Where is it?)
Sonagir near Jhansi ?? But obviously the wrong system.

Apurva

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Trains and names...

Date: 28 Sep 1999 09:14:50 -0500


Getting to the 6xxx trains

Ahmadabad-Chennai Navjivan Exp. ??

Chennai-Tirupati Sapthagiri Exp.
Sapthagiri = seven hills. Refers to the hills around Tirupati?

Chennai-Jolarpettai Yelagiri Exp. ??

Chennai-Tirunelveli Nellai Exp.
Nellu = paddy (in Tamil). Something to do with that?

Chennai-Karaikkudi/Nagore Kamban Exp.
Kamban temple?

Mysore-Bangalore Tippu Exp.
after Tippu Sultan. His tomb is in Srirangapatna on the
Bangalore-Mysore
line.

Mysore-Bangalore Chamundi Exp.
Chamundi is an avatar of Parvati? Chamundi temple in Mysore?

Shoranur-Trivandrum Venad Exp. ??

Ernakulam-Trivandrum Vanchinad Exp. ??

Trivandrum-Mangalore Malabar Exp.
Mangalore is on the Malabar coast

Trivandrum-Cannanore Parasuram Exp.
Parasum is an avatar of Vishnu. What's this got to do with
Cannanore/Trivandrum?


Mumbai-Bangalore Udyan Exp.
Udyan = garden. after the Brindavan Gardens near Bangalore?

Bangalore-Miraj Chennamma Exp. ??

Hubli/Nanded-Bangalore Hampi Exp. ??
At Guntakal, a portion of this train gets detached and goes to Nanded
via
Raichur, Halakatta, Vikrabad, Bidar, Parli Vaijnath, Parbhani, Purna.
Earlier this link exp. used to terminate at Bidar itself.

Chennai-Mettupalaiyam Nilgiri Exp.
after the Nilgiri Hills around Ooty. Mettupalaiyam is the changeover
point
for the Ooty mountain rly.

Kurla-Ernakulam Netravati Exp.
Netravati is a temple?

Chennai-Erode Yercaud Exp. ??

Mangalore-Jammu Tawi Navyug Exp.
Navyug = new era. What's the significance?

Chennai-Rameswaram Sethu Exp.
sethu = bridge. After the Pamban bridge between Pamban and Rameswaram.

Chennai-Madurai Pandyan Exp.
after the Pandyan dynasty

Chennai-Tiruchchi Cholan Exp.
after the Cholan dynasty


7xxx trains
----------------

Tenali-Secunderabad Nagarjuna Exp. ??

Visakhapatnam-Hyderabad Godavari Exp.
crosses the Godavari river near Rajahmundry

Hyderabad-Nizamuddin Dakshin Exp.
dakshin = south. connects Delhi with the southern state of Andhra
Pradesh

Chennai-Kakinada Circar Exp. ??

Kakinada-Secunderabad Gautami Exp. ??

Cochin-Indore Ahilyanagri Exp.
Is Indore known as Ahilyanagri?

Vijayawada-Londa Amravati Exp.
Amravati temple?

Guntur-Visakhapatnam Simhadri Exp. ??

Mumbai-Kolhapur Sahyadri Exp.
after the Sahyadri hills around Kolhapur?

Mumbai-Kolhapur Koyna Exp.
crosses the Koyna river - where?

Tirupati-Hyderabad Krishna Exp.
crosses the Krishna river between Krishna Canal and Vijayawada

Tirupati-Secunderabad Narayanadri Exp. ??

Hyderabad-Tirupati Rayalaseema Exp.
after the Rayalaseema region - around Tirupati?

Tirupati-Visakhapatnam Tirumala Exp.
Tirumala refers to the Venkateswara temple at Tirupati?

Kacheguda-Tirupati Venkatadri Exp. ??

Secunderabad-Mudkhed Ajanta Exp.
restricted version of the Manmad-Kacheguda Ajanta Exp. which used to
pass
through Aurangabad, a railhead for the Ajanta caves.

Nizamabad-Mudkhed Ellora Exp.
after the Ellora caves. Is Aurangabad again the closest railhead?

Secunderabad-Kurnool Town Tungabhadra Exp.
Kurnool is on the banks of the Tungabhadra river

Palasa-Kacheguda Visakha Exp.
what does Visakha refer to? Obviously, Visakhapatnam is named after
that.

Mumbai-Nanded Tapovan Exp. ??


Vijay

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 09:49:33 -0500


Appu, how I wish you had indicated this earlier. It would saved me a
lot
of
typing :-) Any news about the doubling of Bhigwan-Solpaur and beyond?

Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur [SMTP:iti@vsnl.email
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 11:19 AM
> To: Vijay Balasubramanian
> Cc: 'irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India
>
>
>
> Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> > Some interesting info. from the August issue of IR. ( Shankar, did
you
> get
> > any issues between March and August? )
> >
>
> I thought of scanning and uploading this article but you beat me to it
:-)
> What is this term 'full forward' that the author gloats about ? This
is
> what the Pune
> gang know as 'Flat faced' - WAM 4, WAG 5, WCG 2 etc. Is 'full forward'
the
> standard
> nomenclature ?
>
> Apurva
>
>

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: Hints required on KR travel

Date: 28 Sep 1999 10:30:38 -0500


Gang ...

I didn't mention it earlier ... but I had to make a sudden trip to
Kerala
for my cousins engagement ....
Went by Thursdays Matsyagandha Express till Mangalore and onwards (on
Friday) to Payyanur by the Madras Mail.
Returned by Saturdays Mangala Lakshadweep exp - ex Cannanore to Panvel
...

Will be sending a detailed account shortly (hopefully enlightning ... )
...

Rajan

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: More IR links

Date: 28 Sep 1999 10:58:12 -0500


<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~subbu97/indexxm.html">http://members.tripod.com/~subbu97/indexxm.html</A>
Check out the picture of the Green-Yellow YDM4A. If this has something
to
do with Bangalore, then it could be the exitinct MG Tippu Exp.

<A HREF="http://epages.webindia.com/india/indianart">http://epages.webindia.com/india/indianart</A>

<A HREF="http://www.debasisproy.com/indrail.htm">http://www.debasisproy.com/indrail.htm</A>

<A HREF="http://www.lucknowonline.com/businessdirectory/bd_railways.htm">http://www.lucknowonline.com/businessdirectory/bd_railways.htm</A>

Vijay

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:07:31 -0500


> > The first 100 BBM/1 class of AC elec. locos arrived in
> > India from the 50 Cycles Group of Europe, France. These locos. were
simple
> > Bo-Bo type for mixed traffic duty. The loco. was "full forward" in
design
> > and appearance and it introduced the Faivley one-armed pantograph on
IR.
> > The BBM/1 class was introduced on ER and SER. [what class are these
locos?]

> WAG1?

According to Daboo's book, the BBM/1 locos were reclassified WAM1, and
the
BBM/2s were reclassified WAM2. That would indicate that there are two
generations of these locomotives.

I have a very old book on the history of electric locomotives, and it
has a
picture of a BBM/1 - seems nearly identical to the WAM1, except the
rectangular buffers. I'll scan in it sometime.

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:19:16 -0500


The official term, I think, is "cab forward".

It would seem to me that, other than for streamlined high-speed locos,
there
seems little reason not to have a cab forward design for an electric
locomotive.

Interestingly, here in the U.S., the "cab forward" design is almost
exclusive to electric locomotives. Very few diesels have a forward cab -
the
Chicago Metra F40s are one exception. Cab forward diesel locos are
generally
associated with Europe (especially UK), where they are common.

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur [mailto:iti@vsnl.email
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:19 AM
To: Vijay Balasubramanian
Cc: 'irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India




Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:

> Some interesting info. from the August issue of IR. ( Shankar, did you
get
> any issues between March and August? )
>

I thought of scanning and uploading this article but you beat me to it
:-)
What is this term 'full forward' that the author gloats about ? This is
what
the Pune
gang know as 'Flat faced' - WAM 4, WAG 5, WCG 2 etc. Is 'full forward'
the
standard
nomenclature ?

Apurva

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:25:33 -0500


Hello,
I dad used to work in Telco from 1971 to 1990, and the terms FFC is
quite familiar to me.
FFC quite simple is Full Forward Control, i.e. the driver is right at
the front of the vehicle.
As opposed to that, we have SFC, or Semi-Forward control, where the
engine protrudes in front, (the nose, or bonnet), and the driver sits
slightly behind.
The local lingo for the FFC bus/truck chassis in Puneri slang is LP.

Other familiar Telco terms I remember is wheelbase (the distance between
the centre of the front and rear wheels) and overhang, ie, how much the
body protrudes beyond the (esp. front) wheel.

Long wheelbase IR engines are the WCAM/1 and the new GT Mac.The WDS/4
has a long overhang on either side,doesn't it?
Cheers.

Shankar




Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> > Some interesting info. from the August issue of IR. ( Shankar, did
you get
> > any issues between March and August? )
> >
>
> I thought of scanning and uploading this article but you beat me to it
:-)
> What is this term 'full forward' that the author gloats about ? This
is what the Pune
> gang know as 'Flat faced' - WAM 4, WAG 5, WCG 2 etc. Is 'full forward'
the standard
> nomenclature ?
>
> Apurva

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:29:10 -0500


At 08:49 PM 09/28/1999 +0530, Apurva Bahadur wrote:

>I thought of scanning and uploading this article but you beat me to it
:-)
>What is this term 'full forward' that the author gloats about ? This is
what the Pune
>gang know as 'Flat faced' - WAM 4, WAG 5, WCG 2 etc. Is 'full forward'
the
standard
>nomenclature ?
>
>Apurva

Full forward is standard nomenclature in the trucking industry - A "flat
faced" truck is a full forward control truck (as opposed to semi forward
or
conventional control). In the US a full forward control is known as a
'Cab
over engine' and the one with bonnet is called a "conventional".

Eg. The TATA 1210E is a full forward (flat faced) while 1210SE is the
semi
forward or the one with the bonnet mounted engine.

I am not sure how this applies to our elec locos - they are all by
definition full forward, with the exception of the older DC locos.

-Sridhar

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:29:32 -0500


Hello Vijay,
Nope, unfortunately not. Appu keeps making my mouth water by stating
ever so often saying he's received the latest IR mag, and in that is so
and so etc.
No luck. I did not reveive anything between March and Aug. :-{
The IR has probably really entered the fast track and wants to skip
stops!
Cheers.
Shankar




Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:

Some interesting info. from the August issue of IR. ( Shankar, did you
get any issues between March and August? )

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: More IR links

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:37:16 -0500


Hello,
Yes, I'd seen these sites while browsing casually. Interesting, though
not worthwhile putting into a permanent record like a links page.

While browsing I'd also come across a webpage of a group riding a WDM/2
at Secunderabad. Photographed by Anurag Acharya.
Is it OUR Anurag Acharya?
If thats so, I MUST add the page to my superrailway links page under
member pages. Coming to think of it, the irfca mother page made by
Anurag Acharya should be there too.
Anurag, in case you are listening, do send me the urls for these: it
will save me a lot of time. Otherwise, I'll have to browse and find it
all over again!!

The green YDM/4 is in typical Golden Rock livery. One such engine
appears in my Diesel Fiesta site.
THe last I remember of the Bangalore-Mysore YDMs is that they were all
is mundane IR maroon.

Cheers.

Shankar




Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~subbu97/indexxm.html">http://members.tripod.com/~subbu97/indexxm.html</A>
> Check out the picture of the Green-Yellow YDM4A. If this has
something to
> do with Bangalore, then it could be the exitinct MG Tippu Exp.
>
> <A HREF="http://epages.webindia.com/india/indianart">http://epages.webindia.com/india/indianart</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.debasisproy.com/indrail.htm">http://www.debasisproy.com/indrail.htm</A>
>
> <A HREF="http://www.lucknowonline.com/businessdirectory/bd_railways.htm">http://www.lucknowonline.com/businessdirectory/bd_railways.htm</A>
>
> Vijay

From: Nitin Joshi <>

Subject: Beijing to Shanghai

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:38:47 -0500


Here is an interesting article on the CNN News Network. Check it out
 
<<A HREF="http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/dispatches/09.28.shanghai.train/>">http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/1999/china.50/dispatches/09.28.shanghai.train/></A>
 

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:54:42 -0500


Hello,
A none too good pic of a WAM/1 with rectangular buffers appears in my ac
unleashed!!! site.
Actually, far from being two generations of locomotives, the WAM 1& 2
(or for that matter WAG 1 & 2) were two different classes of locomotives
altogether.
The WAG/WAM-1s were predominantly French builds, quite identical to the
present WAM/4 class.
The WAG/WAM/2s were Japanese (Hitachi) built, quite identical to the
dimunitive YAM/1. More angular, and slender profile.
There are quite a few pics of both these classes in your Asansol site.
Cheers.
Shankar


Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
> > > The first 100 BBM/1 class of AC elec. locos arrived in
> > > India from the 50 Cycles Group of Europe, France. These locos.
were
> simple
> > > Bo-Bo type for mixed traffic duty. The loco. was "full forward"
in
> design
> > > and appearance and it introduced the Faivley one-armed pantograph
on IR.
> > > The BBM/1 class was introduced on ER and SER. [what class are
these
> locos?]
>
> > WAG1?
>
> According to Daboo's book, the BBM/1 locos were reclassified WAM1, and
the
> BBM/2s were reclassified WAM2. That would indicate that there are two
> generations of these locomotives.
>
> I have a very old book on the history of electric locomotives, and it
has a
> picture of a BBM/1 - seems nearly identical to the WAM1, except the
> rectangular buffers. I'll scan in it sometime.

From: s.shankar <>

Subject: Re: links

Date: 28 Sep 1999 11:55:52 -0500


Hello,
Thanks Shanku for the nice links. I'll go over them at leisure over the
weekend (my weekend: Thu/Fri).
I think I'll add the RDSO to the links page of my superrailway site,
wonder
how I missed it before.
I think I'll add the IRIEEN site after the CLW part is complete. It
keeps
showing error now.
Cheers.




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From: Shankar <>

Subject: IR Links

Date: 28 Sep 1999 12:10:13 -0500


Hello Shanku,
I'd replied to this mail via my excite account, but that message does
not seem to have gone through.
Thanks a lot for the interesting links. I think I'll add a couple of
them to the links page of my superrailways site. Let me browse over them
this weekend.
Cheers.
Shankar



Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
> The official term, I think, is "cab forward".
>
> It would seem to me that, other than for streamlined high-speed locos,
there
> seems little reason not to have a cab forward design for an electric
> locomotive.
>
> Interestingly, here in the U.S., the "cab forward" design is almost
> exclusive to electric locomotives. Very few diesels have a forward cab
- the
> Chicago Metra F40s are one exception. Cab forward diesel locos are
generally
> associated with Europe (especially UK), where they are common.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur [mailto:iti@vsnl.email
> Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 8:19 AM
> To: Vijay Balasubramanian
> Cc: 'irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India
>
> Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> > Some interesting info. from the August issue of IR. ( Shankar, did
you get
> > any issues between March and August? )
> >
>
> I thought of scanning and uploading this article but you beat me to it
:-)
> What is this term 'full forward' that the author gloats about ? This
is what
> the Pune
> gang know as 'Flat faced' - WAM 4, WAG 5, WCG 2 etc. Is 'full forward'
the
> standard
> nomenclature ?
>
> Apurva

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India

Date: 28 Sep 1999 13:01:36 -0500


Sorry, what I meant was that there were two generations of WAM1s and
WAM2s
EACH. Meaning, there were some BBM/1s, then some BBM/2s, then some WAM1s
and
some WAM2s. The BBM/1s then became the first generation of WAM1s, and
likewise for the BBM/2s.

IMHO, the WAM2 is much nicer looking than the WAM1.

-----Original Message-----
From: Shankar [mailto:shankie@emirates.email
Sent: Tuesday, September 28, 1999 11:55 AM
To: Shanku Niyogi
Cc: 'Jishnu Mukerji'; Vijay Balasubramanian; 'irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: Chronology of electric locos. in India


Hello,
A none too good pic of a WAM/1 with rectangular buffers appears in my ac
unleashed!!! site.
Actually, far from being two generations of locomotives, the WAM 1& 2
(or for that matter WAG 1 & 2) were two different classes of locomotives
altogether.
The WAG/WAM-1s were predominantly French builds, quite identical to the
present WAM/4 class.
The WAG/WAM/2s were Japanese (Hitachi) built, quite identical to the
dimunitive YAM/1. More angular, and slender profile.
There are quite a few pics of both these classes in your Asansol site.
Cheers.
Shankar


Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
> > > The first 100 BBM/1 class of AC elec. locos arrived in
> > > India from the 50 Cycles Group of Europe, France. These locos.
were
> simple
> > > Bo-Bo type for mixed traffic duty. The loco. was "full forward"
in
> design
> > > and appearance and it introduced the Faivley one-armed pantograph
on
IR.
> > > The BBM/1 class was introduced on ER and SER. [what class are
these
> locos?]
>
> > WAG1?
>
> According to Daboo's book, the BBM/1 locos were reclassified WAM1, and
the
> BBM/2s were reclassified WAM2. That would indicate that there are two
> generations of these locomotives.
>
> I have a very old book on the history of electric locomotives, and it
has
a
> picture of a BBM/1 - seems nearly identical to the WAM1, except the
> rectangular buffers. I'll scan in it sometime.

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