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From: lwebber <>

Subject: Eastern Railway - some missing information, help please... :)

Date: 07 Sep 1999 12:03:30 -0500


Could someone with old or new Eastern Railway Timetables or other
sources, please provide inter-station distances (and/or any missing
stations) as follows - approximately will do? Please, answers to irfca,
thanks to my misbehaving filter that is all I can read.

CALCUTTA REGION LINES
* Seoraphuli Jn.,Kamarkundu Jn.,Tarkeshwar
* Princep Ghat,Dum Dum Jn.,BBD Bagh (Rest of Port Trust Railway?)
* Sheakhala,Dankuni Jn.,Andul Jn.
* Kalyani,Kalyani Silpanchal,Kalyani Ghoshpara,Kalyani Simanta
* Dum Dum Jn.,Dum Dum Cantonment,Durganagar,Birati,New
Barrackpur,Madhyamgram,Hridaypur,Barasat
Jn.,Dattapukur,Bira,Guma,Ashoknagar Road,Habra,Gobardanga,Bongaon
Jn.,Ranaghat Jn.,Ranaghat Jn.,Taraknagar
Halt,Aranghata,Bagula,Majhdia,Banpur,Gede
* Kalinarayanpur,Phulia,Habibpur,Shantipur
* Baliganja Jn.,Lake Gardens,Kalighat,Kalighat,Tollyganj,New
Alipur,Majherhat,Brace Bridge,Santoshpur,Akra,Nungi,Baj Baj
* Dhakuria,Jadavpur,Baghajatin,Garia,Sonarpur
Jn,Piali,Champahati,Ghutiari Sharif,Taldi,Canning
* Sonarpur Jn.,Subhasgram,Malikpur,Baruipur Jn,Baruipur Jn.,Kalyanpur
(W.B.),Magra Hat,Diamond Harbour
* Baruipur Jn.,Gocharan,Jaynagar Majilpur,Lakshmikantapur,Namkhana
* Hasnabad, Taki Road, Basirhat,Kareya Kadambagachhi,Barasat Jn.

OTHER LINES
* Damodar Jn.,Kalipahari
* Patna Jn.,Digha
* Mokama Jn.,Mokama Ghat
* Ikra Jn.,Gaurangdih
* Talgaria,Katrasgarh (Colliery)
* Hathidah Jn.,Rajendra Pul,Simaria,Garhara,Barauni Jn.
* Sindri Town,Pathardih Jn.

This info will enable me to complete the Eastern Railway (Part #2/9) of
my Indian Railway Simulation Database (IRSD), which will find its way to
the web. As I have already completed Konkan Railway (Part #3/9, easy), I
shall then move to NEFR (Part #4/9).

Many thanks in advance, for this and also any help with CR as
requested...


Regards to all

Larry


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From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Train names, Queens and Godesses

Date: 07 Sep 1999 12:31:53 -0500


> > Garib Nawaz Link Exp. : The link express was the
> > extension of Pink City Exp.(between Delhi and Jaipur)
> > to Udaipur and the name probably came because it used to
> > pass through Ajmer.
>
> Doesn't Garib Nawaz have something to do with some character connected
> with Ajmer? I can't exactly recall the exact connection though.
>

the Gharib Nawaz name is for Khwaja Gharib Nawaz Chisti, whose
dargah and mazar is in Ajmer.
--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Unsolved IR Mysteries: Mahuda Region; Lucknow Jn.

Date: 07 Sep 1999 13:21:11 -0500


> ADDITIONS PER VIJAY RE THE 'MAHUDA REGION'
>
> [In the light of the above, I suggest "XX" = Talgaria (or adjacent),
> but note XX is then NOT a bifurcation point for two routes to
Bhojudih]
>
Talgari is definitely not the bifurcation point. It simply lies within
the
2nd route between
Mahuda and Bhojudih (the first route is via Bhaga)


> Pathardih-Sindri
> [but I can find no bradshaw references to this - do you have
intermediate
> stations? Is Sindri=SindriTown?]
>
The ER map indicates lines from Pathardih to Sindri Marshalling Yard as
well
as Sindri [same as Sindri Town, IMHO]
but intermediate stations are not indicated. Also, these lines are not
present in the schedule.


> >Wadi - lines to Shahabad, Vikrabad and Raichur. There is a bypass
line
> with
> >Halkatta as the bypass station.
>
> Is it possible to travel on IR on the direct route Wadi-Vikarabad
WITHOUT
> passing Halakatta?
>
Let me clarify that Halakatta lies WITHIN the bypass line - so neither
Wadi-Vikarabad nor Wadi-Raichur touch
this station.

Vijay

From: lwebber <>

Subject: NorthEast Frontier Railway - some missing information, help please... :)

Date: 07 Sep 1999 16:37:21 -0500


Could someone with old or new NorthEast Frontier Railway Timetables or
other sources, please provide inter-station distances (and/or any
missing stations) as follows - approximately will do? Please, answers to
irfca, thanks to my misbehaving filter that is all I can read.


BG LINES
* Eklakhi Jn.,Balurghai
* Amguri Jn.,Tuli

MG LINES
* Alipurduar Jn.,Alipurduar Court,Alipurduar,Baneswar,New Cooch
Behar,Cooch Behar,Dawan Hat,Bhetaguri,Dinhata College
Halt,Dinhata,Falimari,New Gitaldaha Jn.,Abutara Halt,Bamanhat
* Domohani,Bhottepatti,Changrabandha
* New Gitaldaha Jn.,Gitaldaha
* Kamakhya Jn.,Pandu
* Raja Bhat Khawa Jn.,Jayanti
* Chalsa Jn.,Matiali
* Agyathori Jn.,Amingaon


This info will enable me to complete the NEFR (Part #4/9) of my Indian
Railway Simulation Database (IRSD), which will find its way to the web.
I shall then move to NER (Part #5/9).

Many thanks in advance, for this and also any help with CR and ER as
requested...


Regards to all

Larry


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From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Why train didn't stop after chain pull

Date: 07 Sep 1999 17:08:18 -0500


Indian Express
Wednesday, September 8, 1999

Probe into why train did not stop after chain was
pulled

EXPRESS NEWS SERVICE

PUNE, SEPT 7: While the police have launched a
massive investigation into the Deccan Queen robbery
on Saturday night, the railway officials are not
clear on why the train was not stopped after the
passengers pulled the chain.

According to senior officers of the Railway police,
the culprits were armed and they would not have
hesitated to harm the passengers had they tried to
resist.

According to A K Varma, Divisional Railway Manager,
the decision to stop the train lies with the driver.
``This train has air brakes, which have a audio-
visual alarm facility warning the driver that someone
has pulled the chain. But we have to get the
statement of the driver and the guard to find out why
he did not stop the train.''

The complainant, Narendra Dosa, said that despite the
passengers pulling the chain moments after the
culprits jumped off, the train did not stop till it
arrived at Pune station. ``We were held at gunpoint
till the culprits jumped out just as the train
started off. We pulled the chain but the train did
not stop and I could rush to the police only after I
had reached Pune Station.''

Home Deputy Superintendent of Railway police, S D
Soparkar pointed out that the culprits could have
harmed the passengers seriously had they resisted.
``In that case, it could have become much more
serious and the train should have stopped,'' he said.

According to Y K Singh, PRO, Central Railways, the
statements of the railway personnel would be taken to
find out why the train was not stopped. ``Since the
distance between Shivajinagar station and Pune
station is very little, the drivers probably thought
it fit to continue. But if the driver and the guard
failed to stop the train, then it is a serious
matter.'' Singh has contacted the Railway officials
at Mumbai and assured that the matter would be looked
into.

<A HREF="http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990908/ige08063.html">http://www.expressindia.com/ie/daily/19990908/ige08063.html</A>


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From: Muhammed Khan <>

Subject: Re: Train names, Queens and Godesses

Date: 07 Sep 1999 17:48:50 -0500


Yes, "Garib Nawaz "is associated with the name of the saint whose tomb
is in
Ajmer. Beside this the name "Garib Nawaz " literally means "one who
cares
for the poor". Cosidering the IR this may be an appropriate name for a
train
that is for the poor since most passenger especially during the annual
Urus
celebration ( the saints death anniversary) travel for free ( without
ticket)!!!
Muhammed
----- Original Message -----
From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
To: Jishnu Mukerji <jis@fpk.email
Cc: <irfca@cs.email Prateep Chatterjee <prateep@umr.email
<shankie@emirates.email
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 1999 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Train names, Queens and Godesses


> > > Garib Nawaz Link Exp. : The link express was the
> > > extension of Pink City Exp.(between Delhi and Jaipur)
> > > to Udaipur and the name probably came because it used to
> > > pass through Ajmer.
> >
> > Doesn't Garib Nawaz have something to do with some character
connected
> > with Ajmer? I can't exactly recall the exact connection though.
> >
>
> the Gharib Nawaz name is for Khwaja Gharib Nawaz Chisti, whose
> dargah and mazar is in Ajmer.
> --
> Anniepoo
> Need loco motors?
> <A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Rail Images

Date: 07 Sep 1999 19:34:18 -0500


Hello all,

According to a friend, I managed to make my intended page work.
Please go to <A HREF="http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/rail.htm">http://webusers.warwick.net/~u1029964/rail.htm</A>

From: Muhammed Khan <>

Subject: Re: sleepers

Date: 07 Sep 1999 20:15:48 -0500


AB: Please check the dates. In '87 there was extensive replacement of
wooden
sleepers in Nagpur division with concrete sleepers. There was a concrete
sleeper manufacturing unit near Chadrapur.
Muhammed
----- Original Message -----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <smg@godrej.email
Cc: S Pai <s_pai@bigfoot.email <irfca@cs.email
Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: sleepers


> >
> > The first section on CR with concrete sleepers was around Badlapur,
Karjat
> > some 10 years back. Now almost all the tracks on suburban are having
these
> > new ones.
> >
> > Near Dombivali, towards CST on Up thru line the train used to bounce
quite a
> > lot after the wooden sleepers were replaced with concrete ones. So
much
so
> > there were fears amongst the passengers & complaints were sent from
passengers
> > to PRO of CR. Now the problem is more or less solved. May be
something
to
> > do with cushioning factor. Any of us experienced such bouncy effect
on
> > tracks after conversion?
>
> The life of a pre stressed concrete sleeper is 60 years. Even the cast
iron
> sleepers used in the 1960s - 70s have a lesser life of about 30 years.
There is a
> synthetic rubber pad which is supposed to cushion the ride. In any
case
any
> further destruction of forest for manufacturing sleepers is not
justified,
even if
> the ride comfort is somewhat less.
> Is the concrete sleeper and pandrol clip the standard method of
permanent
way
> construction all over the world ?
>
>
> Apurva
>
>
>

From: Joydeep Dutta <>

Subject: Re: NorthEast Frontier Railway - some missing information, help please... :)

Date: 07 Sep 1999 23:40:09 -0500


It is for your information that the Eklakhi-Balurghat BG line is not
completed. It has been stalled half a way. Tuli is not on the BG route.
Trains have a stopped plying on the Mg route between Khamakya and Pandu.

Pandu now is only servicing the rake of 5713/7514 Kamkhya-Murkongselek
Arunachal Express.
The only train the ran to Pandu from Narengi via Guwahati was the staff
shuttle hauled by an immaculate MAWD. I had seen and travelled by the
train
in my childhood days. The service is now replaced by buses. I will send
you
more information later on
Joydeep



?From: lwebber@planetmail.email
?To: irfca@cs.email
?Subject: NorthEast Frontier Railway - some missing information, help
please... :)
?Date: Tue, 7 Sep 1999 19:37:21 -0400 (EDT)
?
?Could someone with old or new NorthEast Frontier Railway Timetables or
other sources, please provide inter-station distances (and/or any
missing
stations) as follows - approximately will do? Please, answers to irfca,
thanks to my misbehaving filter that is all I can read.
?
?
?BG LINES
?* Eklakhi Jn.,Balurghai
?* Amguri Jn.,Tuli
?
?MG LINES
?* Alipurduar Jn.,Alipurduar Court,Alipurduar,Baneswar,New Cooch
Behar,Cooch
Behar,Dawan Hat,Bhetaguri,Dinhata College Halt,Dinhata,Falimari,New
Gitaldaha Jn.,Abutara Halt,Bamanhat
?* Domohani,Bhottepatti,Changrabandha
?* New Gitaldaha Jn.,Gitaldaha
?* Kamakhya Jn.,Pandu
?* Raja Bhat Khawa Jn.,Jayanti
?* Chalsa Jn.,Matiali
?* Agyathori Jn.,Amingaon
?
?
?This info will enable me to complete the NEFR (Part #4/9) of my Indian
Railway Simulation Database (IRSD), which will find its way to the web.
I
shall then move to NER (Part #5/9).
?
?Many thanks in advance, for this and also any help with CR and ER as
requested...
?
?
?Regards to all
?
?Larry
?
?
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From: lwebber <>

Subject: North Eastern Railway - some missing information, help please... :)

Date: 08 Sep 1999 02:03:01 -0500


Could someone with old or new North Eastern Railway Timetables or other
sources, please provide inter-station distances (and/or any missing
stations) as follows - approximately will do? Please, answers to irfca,
thanks to my misbehaving filter that is all I can read.


BG LINES
* Sonpur Jn.,Paleza Ghat

MG LINES
* Nepalganj Road,Babaganj,Nanpara
Jn.,Matera,Risia,Bahraich,Chilwaria,Yogendradham
Halt,Paryagpur,Bisheshwarganj,Bangain,Gangadham,Gonda Jn.
* Sitapur Jn.,Thompsonganj
* Bhagalpur Jn.,Bhagalpur Kacheri,Barari


This info will enable me to complete the NER (Part #5/9) of my Indian
Railway Simulation Database (IRSD), which will find its way to the web.
I shall then move to NR (Part #6/9).

Many thanks in advance, for this and also any help with CR, ER and NEFR
as already requested...


Regards to all

Larry


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From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: NorthEast Frontier Railway - some missing information, help please... :)

Date: 08 Sep 1999 02:33:10 -0500


From: <joydeepdutta@hotmail.email
Cc: <irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: NorthEast Frontier Railway - some missing information, help
please... :)

Joydeep Dutta said:
> It is for your information that the Eklakhi-Balurghat BG line is not
> completed. It has been stalled half a way. Tuli is not on the BG
route.
> Trains have a stopped plying on the Mg route between Khamakya and
Pandu.
> Pandu now is only servicing the rake of 5713/7514 Kamkhya-Murkongselek

> Arunachal Express.
> The only train the ran to Pandu from Narengi via Guwahati was the
staff
> shuttle hauled by an immaculate MAWD. I had seen and travelled by the
train
> in my childhood days. The service is now replaced by buses. I will
send you
> more information later on.

Thanks, and please do (send it to the irfca list). Amguri-Tuli btw was
supposed to be a branch line. In the light of what you have written,
here is the amended information request:-

x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Could someone with old or new NorthEast Frontier Railway Timetables or
other sources, please provide inter-station distances (and/or any
missing stations) as follows - approximately will do? Please, answers to
irfca, thanks to my misbehaving filter that is all I can read.


MG LINES
* Alipurduar Jn.,Alipurduar Court,Alipurduar,Baneswar,New Cooch
Behar,Cooch Behar,Dawan Hat,Bhetaguri,Dinhata College
Halt,Dinhata,Falimari,New Gitaldaha Jn.,Abutara Halt,Bamanhat
* Domohani,Bhottepatti,Changrabandha
* New Gitaldaha Jn.,Gitaldaha
* Raja Bhat Khawa Jn.,Jayanti
* Chalsa Jn.,Matiali
* Agyathori Jn.,Amingaon


This info will enable me to complete the NEFR (Part #4/9) of my Indian
Railway Simulation Database (IRSD), which will find its way to the web.

Many thanks in advance, for this and also any help with CR, ER and NER
as requested...


Regards to all

Larry

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From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: News from IR....

Date: 08 Sep 1999 03:00:06 -0500




Hi!

News snippets from IR...

1) Panvel & Dombivli put on the Computerised Reservation network from
15th
Aug.. linked to PRS at CSTM, so reservations can be done on all India
level. Dombivli link tripped after 2 days of service to passengers &
then
restored after 3 days lull.

2) Provision for Baggage identification, just like it is done on
airlines
all over the world.Area to be marked for lodging the heavy baggage on
higher
classes. This appeared 2 days back, just when the theft on Deccan Queen
took place. But no relation to this incident.

3) Mumbai-Howrah Mail via Allahabad shall have 2 tier AC sleeper in
place
of First class. This will carry double the passengers than the First
class.
So, another free viewing gone away.

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: Unsolved IR Mysteries: Mahuda Region

Date: 08 Sep 1999 03:07:30 -0500


Vijay Balasubramanian said:

[Re: XX-Katrasgarh colliery line]
>Talgari is definitely not the bifurcation point. It >simply lies within
the 2nd route between
>Mahuda and Bhojudih (the first route is via Bhaga)

Please, then, could you estimate (I know the maps are not too accurate -
but something is better than nothing) scale HOW FAR FROM MAHUDA is this
XX Jn.? Gomoh-Telo-Chandrapura is 10+7=17 kms, for scale. Thanks!

If "XX" is only a short distance from Mahuda, it may be Malkera (@3km).

If I understand you correctly, this "XX" is a 4-link Jn. (Mahuda,
Talgari(a), Bhaga and Katrasgarh), and Mahuda a 3-link Jn. (XX,
Chandrapura via Jamuniatand, Gomoh via Khanudih). Yes?


Note: Katrasgarh is also on Dhanbad Jn.-Chandrapura Jn.
Talgari(a) is also connected to Tupkadi, which is on Rajabehra-Bokaro
SC.


Thanks again, friend!

Regards to all

Larry


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From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Khyber pass

Date: 08 Sep 1999 03:11:25 -0500


Hello,
Here is the correct url for the Pakistan steam excursion on the Khyber
pass:

<A HREF="http://www.pakcyber.com/sehrai-travels/">http://www.pakcyber.com/sehrai-travels/</A>

Sorry about the goof up yesterday.

Cheers.

Shankar

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: IRFCA Web page, and mine

Date: 08 Sep 1999 03:13:51 -0500


Dear Shankar,
Apurva upbraided me along similar lines quite some time ago. As I
explained to him then, there is NO mistake. I am quite familiar with the
BARSI Light Railway having visited it more than once. But the BARFI
Light
Railway is something else -- namely, my 4mm:1 ft scale MODEL railway!
And
yes, of course I know what Barfi is -- I used to eat rather a lot of it
before I had to give up milk-based foods -- where do you suppose I got
the
name? Intended as a gentle pun, of course. And homage -- Calthrop was in
my
view one of the few clear-sighted and sane engineers among a lot of
wild-eyed narrow-gauge promoters.
Despite the name. my BLR is actually based on three now-defunct
lines
in the south -- the Tirupattur-Krishnagiri and
Morrappur-Dharmapuri-Hosur
lines (closed 1941) and the Kolar District Railway, which has fallen
into
desuetude over the last 30 years or so. Kutcha Bazar, the terminus, is
based
very loosely on Chintamani (though the track plan is borrowed from
Islampur), and the junction station is rather more closely modelled on
Tirupattur. In know Kutcha Bazar is a Hindi nmae, by the way: my story
is
that it was bestowed by one of the Muslim rulers who impacted on that
area.
The junction station is called Chinnapettai, which is more authenticallt
Tamil (if I have it right). The location -- theoretically -- is the top
LHS
cnrner of TN, near the Mysore border. Good area for tiles and temples.
Surely the pictures diodn't fool you inot thinking it was
real???
Cheers
Ken Walker

You writted (SNUP)
>
>In the meantime, I do now [don't?? kjw] know if I'd pointed out before
(I
think I
>had): in you models page, the title appears as:
>
>Some images of the BARFI light railway (or words to that effect).
>
>The correct name is BARSI and not Barfi.
>
>Barfi is a kind a Indian sweet!
>
>The Barsi Light Railway was made famous by Calthropp: a car from the
BLR
>is preserved at the NRM, Delhi, while an 'F' class engine from the same
>railway is preserved outside Poona (Pune) station.
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: sleepers

Date: 08 Sep 1999 03:56:16 -0500


Dear C.L. and gang,
Interesting, because "New Scientist" recently had a piece
suggesting
that U.S. and Canada had grossly overestimated their available
exploitable
forest resources and were seriously overcutting. Not helped by lunatics
advocating "open-access" regimes in forests -- from purely profit-driven
motives, no doubt. Given what we are steadily finding out about the
contribution forests make to ecological stability, this stuff is
serious!
The trend worldwide appears to be towards concrete sleepers, and I
think the reasons are twofold. Firstly, they are far better for
high-speed
and high-load lines, since they give a stabler, stronger, and deeper
roadbed. Secondly, of course shortage of timber, and the high price and
poor
quality of what is available, has been an important factor.
As a technical development, the use of concrete sleepers had to
wait
until satisfactory designs evolved; they have been in occasional use
almost
as long as railways existed (and many early British lines has stone
block
sleepers) but the low tensile strength of concrete meant that they
shattered
readily and often deteriorated fast under traffic conditions. In
Britain, a
very basic design consisting of two blocks held together by a tie-rod
was
quite extensivelty used in sidings during the 1939-45 war, but otherwise
concrete was not successful until the late 1960s-early 1970s. The
problem
has to do with the design and tensioning of the reinforcement; a problem
now
apparently solved.
Incidentally, steel and cast-iron sleepers have been in use on
Indian
railways since arounf the 1870s. There were two early cast-iron designs,
a
domed one still occasionally to be seen, and the Deham-Olpherts flat
plate
type with cast ribs. Both were held together with tie-bars. In modern
times
the CST-9 and CST-13 designs, which share characteristics of both the
earlier types, have become dominant on IR. They have pockets to permit
the
packing of ballast up underneath them, but a rail seat design more like
the
Denham-Olpherts. I think you'll find that while the life of such
sleepers in
main lines under heavy traffic may be close to the quoted 30 years,
their
life in sidings, etc, is far longer. There are some pretty ancient
example
still to be found if you poke about. The pressed-steel sleeper is also
quite old; it was commonly known as the "pea-pod" during the 19th
century.
The design hasn't changed much, varying mostly in the rail seat, which
either has a pressed-up tab to accept a key, or a raised seat to take a
baseplate or chair. Steel sleepers for points, of course, are a special
drawn section which can be cut to length.
Finally, re Apurva's comment on Pandrol clips: these are one of
several designs of flexible fastening, many of them patented. Nearly all
concrete sleeper designs use one of them. Railway Board's handling of
negotiations for the rights to the Pandrol design were the subject of
repeated critical comment by the Parliamentary Public Accounts Committee
during the 1960s and 1970s -- the Great Pandrol Clips Saga (my name for
it!)
You might like to check it out -- I could never make head or tail of it.
Lok
Sabha papers, I think.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: C. Zeni <clzeni@mindspring.email
To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
Cc: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <smg@godrej.email S Pai <s_pai@bigfoot.email
irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 7 September 1999 12:33
Subject: Re: sleepers


>Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > The first section on CR with concrete sleepers was around Badlapur,
Karjat
>> > some 10 years back. Now almost all the tracks on suburban are
having
these
>> > new ones.
>> >
>> > Near Dombivali, towards CST on Up thru line the train used to
bounce
quite a
>> > lot after the wooden sleepers were replaced with concrete ones. So
much
so
>> > there were fears amongst the passengers & complaints were sent from
passengers
>> > to PRO of CR. Now the problem is more or less solved. May be
something
to
>> > do with cushioning factor. Any of us experienced such bouncy
effect on
>> > tracks after conversion?
>>
>> The life of a pre stressed concrete sleeper is 60 years. Even the
cast
iron
>> sleepers used in the 1960s - 70s have a lesser life of about 30
years.
There is a
>> synthetic rubber pad which is supposed to cushion the ride. In any
case
any
>> further destruction of forest for manufacturing sleepers is not
justified, even if
>> the ride comfort is somewhat less.
>> Is the concrete sleeper and pandrol clip the standard method of
permanent
way
>> construction all over the world ?
>
>Should be in the US but it isn't...concrete sleepers are being used in
>some places but not for ecological reasons. They're being used on the
>Northeast Corridor (Amtrak's high speed line) as they hold track
>alignment better and are more durable; on the UP/BNSF Powder River line
>to withstand the tremendous punishment of numerous daily 15,000 ton
coal
>trains; and on the Florida East Coast Railway for durability and that
>they won't rot in the soggy sub-tropic Florida soil
>
>Otherwise, it's pretty nearly all wood...CSX is replacing ties nearby,
>again with wood...
>--
> Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
> <A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>
>
> Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem
> smarter when they come at you rapidly.
>

From: C. Zeni <>

Subject: Re: sleepers

Date: 08 Sep 1999 05:22:22 -0500


Dr. Walker, all of what you is true. I neglected to note another
problem being experienced here with wood sleepers, that is, chemical
preservation of them. The traditional method was creosote. It rendered
the wood nearly rot-proof and insect resistant for the practical life of
the tie. Creosote is now considered a hazardous material here, but is
still being used. Newer treatments are not found to be as effective as
creosote. Concrete of course doesn't rot and is insect proof. As
mentioned earlier, the Florida East Coast RR is nearly 100% concrete
ties. On their entire 500 route mile system, they replace less than 400
ties a year after having converted the entire line in the late 1960s.
Where they have been used here, they've been quite successful. But the
US railroad management is quite conservative, so change comes slowly.

On another subject, I am curious about the size and weight of the rail
used in India. Does anybody have any data on this? In the US, rail is
described by a combination of its weight in pounds/3 feet of length and
its profile of which there are numerous standards.

Dr. K.J. Walker wrote:
>
> Dear C.L. and gang,
> Interesting, because "New Scientist" recently had a piece
suggesting
> that U.S. and Canada had grossly overestimated their available
exploitable
> forest resources and were seriously overcutting. Not helped by
lunatics
> advocating "open-access" regimes in forests -- from purely
profit-driven
> motives, no doubt. Given what we are steadily finding out about the
> contribution forests make to ecological stability, this stuff is
serious!
> The trend worldwide appears to be towards concrete sleepers, and
I
> think the reasons are twofold. Firstly, they are far better for
high-speed
> and high-load lines, since they give a stabler, stronger, and deeper
> roadbed. Secondly, of course shortage of timber, and the high price
and poor
> quality of what is available, has been an important factor.
> As a technical development, the use of concrete sleepers had to
wait
> until satisfactory designs evolved; they have been in occasional use
almost
> as long as railways existed (and many early British lines has stone
block
> sleepers) but the low tensile strength of concrete meant that they
shattered
> readily and often deteriorated fast under traffic conditions. In
Britain, a
> very basic design consisting of two blocks held together by a tie-rod
was
> quite extensivelty used in sidings during the 1939-45 war, but
otherwise
> concrete was not successful until the late 1960s-early 1970s. The
problem
> has to do with the design and tensioning of the reinforcement; a
problem now
> apparently solved.
> Incidentally, steel and cast-iron sleepers have been in use on
Indian
> railways since arounf the 1870s. There were two early cast-iron
designs, a
> domed one still occasionally to be seen, and the Deham-Olpherts flat
plate
> type with cast ribs. Both were held together with tie-bars. In modern
times
> the CST-9 and CST-13 designs, which share characteristics of both the
> earlier types, have become dominant on IR. They have pockets to permit
the
> packing of ballast up underneath them, but a rail seat design more
like the
> Denham-Olpherts. I think you'll find that while the life of such
sleepers in
> main lines under heavy traffic may be close to the quoted 30 years,
their
> life in sidings, etc, is far longer. There are some pretty ancient
example
> still to be found if you poke about. The pressed-steel sleeper is
also
> quite old; it was commonly known as the "pea-pod" during the 19th
century.
> The design hasn't changed much, varying mostly in the rail seat, which
> either has a pressed-up tab to accept a key, or a raised seat to take
a
> baseplate or chair. Steel sleepers for points, of course, are a
special
> drawn section which can be cut to length.
> Finally, re Apurva's comment on Pandrol clips: these are one of
> several designs of flexible fastening, many of them patented. Nearly
all
> concrete sleeper designs use one of them. Railway Board's handling of
> negotiations for the rights to the Pandrol design were the subject of
> repeated critical comment by the Parliamentary Public Accounts
Committee
> during the 1960s and 1970s -- the Great Pandrol Clips Saga (my name
for it!)
> You might like to check it out -- I could never make head or tail of
it. Lok
> Sabha papers, I think.
> Cheers
> Ken Walker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: C. Zeni <clzeni@mindspring.email
> To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> Cc: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <smg@godrej.email S Pai
<s_pai@bigfoot.email
> irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> Date: 7 September 1999 12:33
> Subject: Re: sleepers
>
> >Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >>
> >> >
> >> > The first section on CR with concrete sleepers was around
Badlapur,
> Karjat
> >> > some 10 years back. Now almost all the tracks on suburban are
having
> these
> >> > new ones.
> >> >
> >> > Near Dombivali, towards CST on Up thru line the train used to
bounce
> quite a
> >> > lot after the wooden sleepers were replaced with concrete ones.
So much
> so
> >> > there were fears amongst the passengers & complaints were sent
from
> passengers
> >> > to PRO of CR. Now the problem is more or less solved. May be
something
> to
> >> > do with cushioning factor. Any of us experienced such bouncy
effect on
> >> > tracks after conversion?
> >>
> >> The life of a pre stressed concrete sleeper is 60 years. Even the
cast
> iron
> >> sleepers used in the 1960s - 70s have a lesser life of about 30
years.
> There is a
> >> synthetic rubber pad which is supposed to cushion the ride. In any
case
> any
> >> further destruction of forest for manufacturing sleepers is not
> justified, even if
> >> the ride comfort is somewhat less.
> >> Is the concrete sleeper and pandrol clip the standard method of
permanent
> way
> >> construction all over the world ?
> >
> >Should be in the US but it isn't...concrete sleepers are being used
in
> >some places but not for ecological reasons. They're being used on
the
> >Northeast Corridor (Amtrak's high speed line) as they hold track
> >alignment better and are more durable; on the UP/BNSF Powder River
line
> >to withstand the tremendous punishment of numerous daily 15,000 ton
coal
> >trains; and on the Florida East Coast Railway for durability and that
> >they won't rot in the soggy sub-tropic Florida soil
> >
> >Otherwise, it's pretty nearly all wood...CSX is replacing ties
nearby,
> >again with wood...

--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

Dopeler effect: The tendency of stupid ideas to seem
smarter when they come at you rapidly.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: IRFCA

Date: 08 Sep 1999 07:20:39 -0500


This is exciting news. I plan to travel on this very train from
Nagercoil
to Chennai Egmore during my trip to India this winter. Will get a
chance
to capture, on video, the WDP2 in action.

Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan [SMTP:sshanka@gsbalum.email
> Sent: Monday, September 06, 1999 3:59 PM
> To: shankie@emirates.email irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: IRFCA
>
> Folks,
>
> A belated trip report of sorts. My happy days as a student are over
and my
> current job leaves me with little time to do other things :-(
>
> Shankar's missive about missing people prompted me to write this (I
think
> I
> had also promised Apurva to write one up). Any way, here goes. The
most
> exiting part of the trip was spotting the WDP2 in action. SR currently
has
> two of these 15501 and 15503(?). They are both dedicated to the 6121/2
> Chennai - Kanniakumari Express, which SR appears to be developing as a
> premier train the newly converted BG route. The driver was kind enough
to
> let me poke around. The most impressive feature was the panoramic view
> from
> the seat. The controls were quite different from the WDM2 applications
we
> have seen. The throttle's concept appears to have been borrowed from
the
> 'gear selector' you would see in a car with automatic transmission
> (finished with a polished aluminium knob!). The driver was quite
> enthusiastic about the loco and immediately talked about its 160 kmph
> potential, though the track currently permits only 100kmph operation.
>
> Another distinct feature is the twin waist level headlights, though
this
> is
> not something I care for. By the way, many MG EMUs also sport a
similar
> setup. The loco has a heavier throaty sound - quite different from
that of
> the WDM2.
>
> I would love to find out if DLW plans to churn out more of these. Even
> though I don't particularly like them, they certainly add to the
variety.
>
> -Sridhar
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Sridhar Shankar
> 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt. 13A
> Chicago, IL 60615
> (773) 752 1131 (H)
> (312) 980 5492 (W)

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: I'm less confused about Calcutta area - but, still Help Neede d

Date: 08 Sep 1999 08:14:13 -0500


Hopefully my May 1980 ER TT will fill in some gaps. Here goes....


> ********** ER **********
>
>
> * Bally Belanagar Dankuni Jn. Gobra Janai Road
> Begampur Baruipara Mirzapur-Bankipur Balarmbati
> Kamarkundu Jn. Madhusudanpur Chandanpur Porabazar
> Belmuri Sibaichandi Hazigarh Gurap Jhapandanga
> Jaugram Nabagram Masagram Palla Road
Saktigarh
>
Missing station - Masagram Chanchai Halt Palla Rd.


> * Seoraphuli Jn. Kamarkundu Jn. Tarkeshwar
>
Seoraphuli Jn. Diara Nasibpur Singur Kamarkundu Jn. Nalikul Malia
Halt
Haripal Kaikala Bahirkhanda Loknath Tarakeswar


> * Dum Dum Jn. Belgharia Agarpara Sodpur Khardaha
> Titagarh Barrackpore Palta Ichhapur Shyamnagar
> Jagaddal Kankinara Naihati Jn. Halisahar
Kanchrapara
> Workshop Gate Kanchrapara Kalyani Madanpur Simurali
> Palpara Chakdaha Payradanga Ranaghat Jn.
> Kalinarayanpur Birnagar Taherpur Badkulia
> Krishnanagar City Jn. Bahadurpur Dhubulia Muragachha
> Bethuadahari Sonadanga Debagram Pagla Chandi Palassey
> Rajinagar Beldanga Bhabta Sargachhi Berhampore Court
> Cossimbazar Murshidabad Nasibpur Road Jiaganj Bhagwangola
> Krishnapur Lalgola
>
Kanchrapara Workshop Gate not indicated. Kalinarayanpur is a junction.
Missing station - Jiaganj Subarnamrigi Halt Bhagwangola


> * Dum Dum Jn. Dum Dum Cantonment Durganagar Birati New
> Barrackpur Madhyamgram Hridaypur Barasat Jn.
Dattapukur
> Bira Guma Ashoknagar Road Habra Gobardanga Bangaon Jn.
> Petrapol
>
..... Birati Bishorpara Kodaliya Halt New Barrackpore ..... Barasat
Bamangachhi Dattapukur .... Habra Machhalandapur Gobardanga
Thakurnagar

Chandpara Bangaon Jn.


> * Barasat Jn. Kareya Kadambagachhi Basirhat Taki Road
> Hasnabad
>
Barasat Karea-Kadambagachi Bahira-Kalibari Halt Sondalia Beliaghata
Rd.
Halt Labutala Halt Bhasila Harua Rd. Kankra-Mirzanagar Halt
Champapukur Bhyabla Halt Basirhat Madhyampur Halt Nimdanri Halt
Taki
Rd. Hasnabad


> * Bangaon Jn. Ranaghat Jn. Taraknagar Halt Aranghata Bagula
> Majhdia Banpur Gede
>
Ranaghat Bankim Nagar Halt Panchberia Halt Aranghata Bahiragachhi
Halt
Bhayana Halt Bagula Mayurhat Taraknagar Halt Majhdia Banpur
Harisnagar Halt Gede


> * Baliganja Jn. Lake Gardens Kalighat Taliganja
New
> Alipur Majherhat Brace Bridge Santoshpur Akra
> Nungi Baj Baj
>
Ballygunge Lake Gardens Tollyganj New Alipur .... Budge Budge


> * Sealdah Park Circus Baliganja Jn. Dhakuria Jadavpur
> Baghajatin Garia Sonarpur Jn. Piali Champahati Ghutiari
> Sharif Taldi Canning
>
..Park Circus Sir Gurudas Banerjee Halt Ballygunge .... Bhaga Jatin
....
Sonarpur Bidyadharpur Kalikpur Champahati Piali ... G. Sharif
Betberia Ghola Halt Taldi...


> * Sonarpur Jn. Subhasgram Malikpur Baruipur Jn.
> Kalyanpur (W.B.) Magra Hat Diamond Harbour
>
...Kalyanpur Dakshin Durgapur Hotar Dhamua UttarRadhanagar Halt
Magra
Halt Bahirpuya Halt Sangrampur Deula Netra Basuldanga
Gurudas Nagar Diamond Harbour


> * Baruipur Jn. Gocharan Jaynagar Majilpur
> Lakshmikantapur Namkhana
>
Baruipur Jn. Shasan Rd. Dhapdhapi Surjyapur Gocharan Dakshin
Barasat
Baharu Jaynagar-Majilpur Mathurapur Rd. Madhabpur Halt
Lakshmikantapur


Couple of routes that you may wish to add -

1. Kalinarayanpur Jn. Birnagar Taherpur Badkulla Jalalkhali Halt
Ranaghat Jn.

2. Circular Railway - Princep Ghat Eden Gardens B.B.D. Bag
Burrabazar
Ahiritola Sovabazar Bagbazar Tala Ultadanga Rd.


Vijay

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Unsolved IR Mysteries: Mahuda Region

Date: 08 Sep 1999 08:31:19 -0500


I got Talgoria confused with the mystery XX Jn., sorry!! Talgoria is
actually on the SAME route as Bhaga.

1st route (from schedule) - Mahuda Malkera Tata Sijua Layabad
Karkend
Bhaga Bhowra Sudamdih Talgoria Shewbabudih Bhojudih Jn.
2nd route (from map) - Mahuda Jn. XX Jn. Bhojudih Jn. (estimated
Mahuda-XX
distance = 20 km.)
The map also shows a link between XX and Katrasgarh
So XX has 3 lines - to Mahuda, Katrasgarh and Bhojudih.

The Talgoria-Tupkadi line is clearly indicated on the map.

Vijay

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lwebber@planetmail.email [SMTP:lwebber@planetmail.email
> Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 6:08 AM
> To: irfca@cs.email
> Subject: RE: Unsolved IR Mysteries: Mahuda Region
>
> Vijay Balasubramanian said:
>
> [Re: XX-Katrasgarh colliery line]
> >Talgari is definitely not the bifurcation point. It >simply lies
within
> the 2nd route between
> >Mahuda and Bhojudih (the first route is via Bhaga)
>
> Please, then, could you estimate (I know the maps are not too accurate
-
> but something is better than nothing) scale HOW FAR FROM MAHUDA is
this XX
> Jn.? Gomoh-Telo-Chandrapura is 10+7=17 kms, for scale. Thanks!
>
> If "XX" is only a short distance from Mahuda, it may be Malkera
(@3km).
>
> If I understand you correctly, this "XX" is a 4-link Jn. (Mahuda,
> Talgari(a), Bhaga and Katrasgarh), and Mahuda a 3-link Jn. (XX,
> Chandrapura via Jamuniatand, Gomoh via Khanudih). Yes?
>
>
> Note: Katrasgarh is also on Dhanbad Jn.-Chandrapura Jn.
> Talgari(a) is also connected to Tupkadi, which is on Rajabehra-Bokaro
SC.
>
>
> Thanks again, friend!
>
> Regards to all
>
> Larry
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
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