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From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: I'm really confused about some points on ER/SER.... Help?

Date: 01 Sep 1999 14:49:04 -0500


Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
> Some more stations for you, on the routes you asked for. I am getting
these
> from a combination of a confusing Calcutta municipality map and my
scattered
> memory, so if anyone knows otherwise, feel free to correct me.

> (f) Baliganj Jn. - Kalighat - Majherhat - Brace Bridge - Akra - Nungi
- Baj
> Baj

I believe now there is Lake Gardens between Baliganj and Kalighat. Seem
to have crossed a level crossing (Gobindopur Road) by that station.

Jishnu.

From: Prakash Tendulkar <>

Subject: Re: Regenerative Braking on the Ghats

Date: 01 Sep 1999 16:29:52 -0500


Raymond,

As far as I know, in the past, all trains descending Bhor Ghat, except
Deccan Queen, used "Ghat Engines",
another name for bankers, in the front. These engines did use
regenerative braking. However, there are limitations to regenerative
braking and hence supplementary use of conventional brakes is
necessary.

American railroads use regenerative braking regularly and supplement it
with conventional braking to
maintain "slack". IR is no exception to maintain
slack.

Prakash

--- raymond/Polaris@polaris.email wrote:
>
>
> Dear gang,
>
> Transferring this to the Railways, shouldn't banking
> engines be used even while
> coming down the ghats, insatead of just using
> brakes.
> The trains coming down the Bhor Ghat from Khandala
> to Karjat have the same
> problem. You can smell boiling grease when the train
> passes through the tunnels
> on the way. Why shouldn't trains coming down the
> Ghat use banking engines with
> their regenerative braking rather than just the
> engine in front using brakes.
>
> Any feedback, gang ?
>
> Raymond
>
>
>

__________________________________________________
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Bid and sell for free at <A HREF="http://auctions.yahoo.com">http://auctions.yahoo.com</A>

From: Avinash Pandey <>

Subject: 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express runs 5km without engine!

Date: 01 Sep 1999 17:02:55 -0500



I joined this mailing list yesterday and didn't expect that I'll be
posting
a message so soon. But I came across this news in Dainik Jagran
(www.jagran.com) which could've been another major accident.

According to the news, the engine of 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express
seperated (the engine coupler seems to have broken) from the train's
rake
between Lucknow & Bareily at about 2:30 AM in the night!
The train ran without the engine for 5 KMs before coming to a halt.
According to the news, if the driver had stopped or slowed the loco,
the train's rake could have collided with it and caused a major
accident.
(Here's some intelligent thinking) Instead he sped the
engine away from the coaches hurtling towards
it and tried to communicate with the gaurd through his walkie-talkie,
but guess what, his batteries had gone down and the spare
batteries were dead!! (I just can't believe this, why have a
walkie-talkie at all if this is how they are used & maintained!)

The matter was resolved at a nearby small station, where
a passenger train's engine and driver (another mistake, he
wasn't authorized to run an express train) were used to haul
the Kathgodam express to the station.

With the horrid Gaisal accident so clear in memory (atleast
in my mind), here's another one that came so
close to happening. I love the Indian Railways (thats why I am
in this mailing list) but am very concerned at its safety
record which seems to be worsening by the day for whatever reasons
(increased traffic, poor maintenance, negligent staff etc).

Avinash
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Avinash Pandey ~ Phone: 650 607 3717
Oracle Corporation ~ Fax : 650 506 7800
500 Oracle Parkway 3OP7 ~ Email: apandey@us.email
Redwood Shores CA 94065 ~ URL : www.oracle.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Life has no obligation to meet your expectations." -Osho

From: lwebber <>

Subject: My Email Is Misbehaving, also re: Has IR Lost One Thousand Stations?? ;)

Date: 01 Sep 1999 20:39:37 -0500


Dear List-friends,

Planetmail has revamped their site, and I upgraded a few things (to the
pro version, and put a Mail-Filter in :( ). The downside is (I've
just test-mailed MYSELF), I can't seem to see *ANY* of my emails except
ones sent via the irfca mailing list (which I allowed when I set up the
filter), OR to change the filter settings - that is STILL the position.

Please, if any of you sent me any "private" emails in the last few days
(and not just cc's of what went to the list), I wasn't being rude by not
replying - PLEASE send them again, JUST to the irfca list (and keep it
that way till I get this fixed). My in-mail was working fine a few days
ago, before I "improved" things :( . I had received and replied to some
material from Apurva and Vijay.



John Lacey said:

> lwebber@planetmail.email wrote:
> >
> > Vadi Elumulai helpfully pointed out that the official Indian Railway
website:
> > www.indianrailway.com / www.indianrailways.gov.in
> > says there are 6984 stations on the IR network.
> > Even if they are only counting passenger stations, my program has
about 1,000 more (and I am missing a few)?
> >
> > The late 1998 Bradshaw Index (which has many omissions, especially
on smaller lines - and also sometimes has only one entry where there are
two different stations with the same name) itself lists a LOT more than
7000!
> >
> > My program (which includes stations like Turbhe, for example -
freight only, and some "stops/halts" - but the vast majority are
passenger stations) currently has 7,959 IR stations, and I am missing a
few (suburban stations, and as above). At most there are 5 remaining
errors of "doublecounting" in my collection. I would estimate, with
missing stations filled in and errors corrected, to have 7,975-8,000
stations.
> >
> > SO, A DIFFERENCE OF 1000?????
> >
> > Simplest explanation is that IR meant 7,984 not 6,984. Any one has
other views or explanations?


> The returns for 1972-73 showed 7,098 stations, with 7,093 in the
> previous year. The number had risen gradually from 5,976 in 1950-51.
> Hope this helps ,


So in 21 years to 1971-2 it went up by:
7093/5976 - 1 = 18.69%
equivalent to 0.82% per year, compound.

So in the next 18 years to 1999-2000 we could MAYBE (!!) expect an
increase of 15.8%, to 8,213.

Again, this makes my figure of 7,975 (increased thanks to new
information from Mr Sanyal, Jishnu and Shanku - probably still 10-20
more to come) more believable, rather than the IR website figure for
1999 of 6,984 (WHICH IS ACTUALLY LOWERT THAN THE FIGURE FOR 1971!).
I think they meant 7,984 not 6,984.


Summary: Number of Passenger Stations on IR:

1972 7098 (Official)
::
1998 c7600 (per 1998 Bradshaw Index, known to be
incomplete eg with suburbia etc.)
::
1999 c7990 (L Webber, assuming more suburban stns)
1999 c8200 (per "growth rate" extrapolation)
:: BUT...
1999 6984 (per IR Website)

!!


Regards to all

L Webber


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------
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From: Prateep Chatterjee <>

Subject: Statesman Editorial

Date: 01 Sep 1999 21:38:02 -0500


The following article appeared in thestatesman.net editorial page :

CONDIGN PENALTY Punish Those Who Cause Rail Accidents

THE railway accident at Gaisal was one of the worst train disasters in
living memory, almost rivalling
the country's worst rail tragedy in June 1981 when more than 800 people
died after a cyclone blew their
train off the track into a river in Bihar. That was, however, a natural
disaster. Gaisal was a man-made
disaster.

How can two trains be put on the same track when there are two sets of
tracks for Up and Down trains
on this section? "Due to some reason the Awadh-Assam Express was
allowed to travel on the wrong
track by the station master two stations before Gaisal,? said a railway
official. Was it an oversight, a
mistake on the part of the station staff or mischief considering what
is happening in that part of the
country. There was a bomb blast at New Jalpaiguri station a few weeks
before the accident and bomb
blasts after the accident - three in a week. The latest one occurred on
9 September between Kokrajhar
and Salakati stations in the Bodo-dominated Kokrajhar area forcing the
railways to stop railway traffic
to the North-east at night.

MISCHIEF

The mischief angle should also be probed by the inquiry commission
being set up by the government
especially since one of the trains involved in accident was carrying a
large number of soldiers and security
personnel.

How could the station master not be aware of the impending disaster
when the facility of "track
circuiting?, a device which is supposed to prevent accidents, is
available on that section? When a track is
occupied, the monitoring panel at the station master's desk ensures
that the signals remain red, the track
is thus interlocked, and can be turned to green only if the station
master intervenes.

The key to the failure, therefore, lies with the station staff who fled
the scene but are reported to be back.
The commissioner for railway safety who is examining the cause of this
accident will no doubt ascertain
the causes of the accident. Once guilt has been established the
defaulter should not get away with
suspension. Even removal from the job would not be deterrent enough.

The chairman of the Railway Board reacting to the accident said that
the railway personnel need
"army-like discipline?. Railway-men are a disciplined lot. Carrying 12
million passengers and more than
a million tonne of freight traffic daily is a feat which can be
achieved only by a disciplined force.
Instances of dereliction of duty can be put down to sheer negligence -
which is encouraged by the
absence of punishment. Human error is responsible for more than 80 per
cent of accidents. Have we
punished even one person for such an error which results in a huge loss
of human life and public
property?

It is well known that the railways fail to take action against the main
accused in train accidents. Two
recent examples have been reported by the media. One employee posted at
Champa in the Bilaspur
section of the South-Eastern Railway was found to be solely responsible
for the derailment of the
Ahmedabad-Howrah express in which 88 persons died and 369 were injured.
Three years after the
accident he still has his job. The Khana accident in November last year
when the Sealdah Express from
Jammu rammed into the derailed coaches of Frontier Mail killing 220
people, was caused by fissures in
the rails which would have been noticed by maintenance personnel. The
guilty were identified, but
continue to hold their jobs.

It is the post-CRS inquiry under Rule 14(a) of the disciplinary and
appeal rules which comes to the
rescue of the culprits. Inquiries are dilatory.

ERRORS

Why not change the rules so as to provide for dismissal, imprisonment
or even hanging once the CRS has
established culpability without recourse to an inquiry under the D&A
rules. Only exemplary punishment
to those responsible for such errors would make everyone more alert and
careful. Of course the
administration on its part should also ensure that railway personnel
are properly trained.

The railway's own statistics say that besides human failure about 10
per cent of accidents are caused by
equipment failure. In the case of the Khana train accident rails
supplied by the Steel Authority of India
Limited were found to be faulty, which railway inspectors failed to
detect. Again, human failure is
responsible for procurement of faulty equipment. Should those
responsible not be hauled up?

Railway authorities are also often accused of reacting late after
disasters. After the Gaisal accident, the
West Bengal government blamed the railways for delayed rescue
operations. There may be political
overtones in such a charge, but the truth is that the railway
authorities do react late. This is true of
disaster management generally. The Cabinet, it is reported, has in the
wake of this accident asked the
Cabinet secretary to prepare a disaster management scheme within six
months. There cannot be one
scheme for all types of disasters.

Another aspect which has been re-vealed in many of the accidents in the
recent past is absence of a
communication network between the drivers, the guards and the station
staff. In the Khana accident if
the guard or the driver of the derailed Frontier Mail had informed the
previous station of the derailment,
the Jammu-Sealdah Express would have been detained there. In August
1995 an express train had
slammed into a train that had stopped after hitting a cow in Ferozabad
near UP killing 358 people. The
inquiry report had recommended the installation of radio communications
systems. So far not one has
been installed.

REPORTS

It is high time that the recommendations all inquiry reports and those
of the safety committees beginning
with the Kanzru Committee in 1962 are compiled and their
recommendations implemented without
delay.

The railway bureaucracy should also say "no? to politicians when they
want the introduction of new
trains merely on populist grounds. The member (traffic) on the railway
board says there are 160 trains
running each day on lines designed for just 60 trains because of the
introduction of new trains. Politicians
are equally to be blamed for larger casualties caused by longer and
faster trains. Let the Railway Board
tell the railway minister firmly that the introduction of even one more
train on saturated routes is
inviting disaster. No railway minister will insist on new trains to his
constituency if he knows he may
have to resign because of an accident.

Is it not ironical, that in this year of the passenger more passengers
are being killed and maimed by
collisions and derailments. The Gaisal accident should at least stir
the conscience of the nation and
systems should be promptly put in place to prevent such tragedies.
Indian Railways are part of the nation
and all said and done Railway men are doing a marvellous job but
something more is to be done than
suspending senior officers. This has only deprived the North-East
Frontier Railway of the services of
crucial personnel at a time when the enemy is targeting the railway
system.



--
--------------------------------------------------
Prateep Chatterjee
Graduate Student
Department of Mechanical & Aerospace Engineering
and Engineering Mechanics
University of Missouri-Rolla
Rolla, MO 65409
Phone : (573) 308-1542
--------------------------------------------------

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Re: Animal V/S Mankind

Date: 01 Sep 1999 21:50:35 -0500


HI!

Sunder

On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Sundar Krishnamurthy wrote:

> Another fight happened in early 98 on CR when passengers from Thane
and
> Mulund had a major brawl over the local trains... people from Thane
> complained that the Mulund commuters bound for Mumbai CST would
purchase
> passes to Thane. In the morning most commuters to Mumbai CST from
Mulund
> would board the train going to Thane for getting seats; and later
travel
> back in the same train from Thane to CST. The problem got so acute
that
> Thane commuters found there would be no seats in the train that pulled
in
> from Mumbai CST and would go back in some time. Soon Mulund commuters
would
> be forcibly displaced from their seats at Thane and the fights reached
such
> a crescendo that the commuters called a strike in Mulund over the
matter
> and stopped all trains by squatting on the tracks.

To this , there was a solution provided by CR itself. There are few
Thana
fast trains from CST or Dadar , which skip Bhandup,Mulund while going to
Thane . And so Thane commuters get almost empty train for their journy
to
CST. As well few trains come from Kalwa carshed to Thane & proceed to
CST
either on slow or fast tracks.

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Junctions That Aren't?

Date: 01 Sep 1999 22:02:14 -0500


Dear Sarosh,

>> The 30 Km line from Rajula Jn. to Mahuva sees three passenger trains
a
day
>> in each direction.

>In fact, the Rajula City Pass. 312/311 is not a daily service, but
>Pass. 310/309 and 306/305 between Dhasa Jn and Mahuva Jn. are on a
>daily basis.


My record shows that I travelled on 311 from Mahuva to Rajula City on
20th
Dec 1998 which was a Sunday. I don't recall noticing that train used to
run
on selected days. A browse through past few WR TTs also don't show any
evidence.

>> Ahmedabad - Mahuva(via Dhola, Dhasa) is under the gauge conversion
plan
>> although actual work had not started till late '98.
>This means that the MG line between Dhasa and Jetalsar Jns. will be
>like an isolated pocket and that goes for the port city of Bhavnagar
>Terminus, also.


Following sections are under the conversion plan in Gujrat area.

1) Surendranagar - Botad - Dhola - Bhavnagar (Sihor - Palitana is not
mentioned).
2) Dhola - Dhasa - Rajula - Mahuva; Rajula - Rajula City.
3) Rajkot - Jetalsar - Junagarh - Veraval.
4) Gandhidham - New Bhuj.
5) Wankaner - Morvi - Navlakhi; Dahinsara - Maliya Miyana.


Balance MG will operate in isolated pockets

To answer Larry's query, there are many stations on IR which were
Junctions
in past but due to closure of some of the lines, they have not strictly
remained Jn. as on date. Still they retain their Jn. status. Some
examples
are Morvi Jn., Khakrechi Jn., Ankleswar Jn. Similarly examples of the
converse galore(which should be called Jn but are not!).

After all this is what makes IR so unique.

Harsh

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Wankaner Weekend.

Date: 01 Sep 1999 22:30:05 -0500



Hello gang,

Just a breif report about my trip last weekend to Wankaner & Morbi with
my
friend Michael Smyth. Michael is a superb railway photographer & you
should see his pictures to believe it. He does his own developing &
printing.

Left home at 4.15pm on friday 27th. after promising my wife & elders in
the family that - I will not lean out of the running train.
I will not stand in front of the oncomming train to
click.
I will not do any footboard travel.
I will not do any rooftop travel.
I will not do any buffer beam travel. Now gang this is
exactly what I had in mind. I wanted a repetition of
the thrills I had during my last trip there.

Caught the 9017 Saurashtra Janta Express which arrived on dot in
Borivali
at 16.56. We were side tracked at Palghar & Valsad to let the 2951 &
2953
Delhi bound Rajdhanis pass. Hit the sack after Surat. Woke up at
Viramgam
& noticed that the train was running 30mts behind schedule. Wankaner was
reached at 7.15.

Navlakhi - Dahinsara - Maliya Miyana section is closed for conversion.
There are no salt workings. All the passenger workings on Wankaner -
Dahinsara section are worked till Barwala Road. Since there are no loco
stabling facilities available at Barwala the loco returns light to Morbi
Jn (which again in true sense is not a junction).

After clicking the 7.25 departure of Morbi passenger behind YG 3318 went
clicking around the loco shed.

The shed houses 9 steam locos: 3 YPs & 6YGs.

YPs are nos:2257, 2825 & 2684.
YGs are nos:3318, 3360, 3261, 3437, 4369 & 3334.
YPs bound for U.S.A. are 2257 (restored to it's former glory & painted
in
bright red & black) & 2805 (the loco shed staff are not aware of it's
whereabouts. Might be in Ajmer or Sabarmati Shed).
All the freight rolling stock will be transfered to Bhavnagar division.

On the BG the sharp curve toward Rajkot with the 4 signal gantry makes a
nice location for photographing mainline trains. I clicked the 9005
Saurashtra Mail there.

Back to MG - caught the 11.00 mixed passenger to Morbi. It was a YG 4369
without smoke deflectors at the head of our train.

Morbi station had impressed me the first time I saw it. This time I was
more impressed. The empty station had a busy look with 3 locos in steam.
This gave Michael an idea to click a lineup of these locos. We requested
the Station Supdt. & he gave us the permission to have the locos
wherever
we wanted on the tracks. Boy now we were instructing the drivers where
to
stop, when to have more steam for that special effect etc etc. & Michael
was having a gala time clicking away. Unfortunately it was a very dull
cloudy day which has marred the quality of my photographs.

We footplated all the way to Wankaner on YG 3318 heading 13.45 2 coach
passenger from Morbi.

The 9018 Saurashtra Janta Express to Bandra Terminus arrived on dot
again
at 15.22hrs at Wankaner Jn. It was on time at Viramgam where it has an
official halt of 30mts.(any guesses why?) but it was almost after
1-1/2hrs. later that we resumed our journey back home. I was too tired
to
venture up to the loco and inquire with the driver the reason for the
delay. By the time we reached Ahmedabad we were famished so I ran to the
fast food joint on platform no.1 and bought ourselves delicious &
filling
club sandwiches. Just after Nadiad I was fast asleep in my bunk. The
hustle & bustle in my coach woke me up to realize that we were
approaching
Borivali.

None of the railway officials in Wankaner or Morbi are aware of the
possible dates of the closure of the steam workings. Some guess that it
will end with the consumption of the present coal stock & yet others had
the opinion that on the arrival of diesel railcars the steam era will
end.

WHAT A T R A G E D Y!!!!!


Viraf


==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: Three North-Eastern Railway Questions

Date: 01 Sep 1999 22:35:46 -0500



> Isn't Juhi supposed to be the yard of Kanpur Central and is located
near
> Govindpuri because of lack of space availability at Kanpur Central
> station itself ? And, doesn't the line to Jhansi bifurcate after
> Govindpuri (just after the overbridge) ? As one travels from CNB
towards
> NDLS, Juhi comes first, then Govindpuri and then Panki.


The passenger trains (the handful of trains that actually start from
Kanpur) are maintained just west of station itself. That is considered
part of Kanpur Central, and not called "Juhi".

Juhi is the marshalling yard for freight trains. You will notice
huge number of tracks, with dozens of freight trains at any time.

To the best of my recollection, this is just after Govindpuri,
and then the line bifurcates, but you could be correct, and
Juhi could be just before Govindpuri (when coming from Central).



> Also interesting factoid from my hazy recollection (I am sure Dheeraj
> will correct me if I am wrong:)) ... Kanpur Central is strictly
speaking
> not on the Delhi - Mughal Sarai Main Line. It is on a spur that is
> aligned in the direction of Lucknow(?). A single track line connects
> Kanpur Central to Chandari on the Delhi - Mughal Sarai Main Line, and
> has always been a cause for delays. All Delhi - Mughal Sarai goods
> trains bypass Kanpur Central along the line that connects Govindpuri
> with Chandari.

Yes there is a double line that connects Govindpuri and Chandari.
This track is used only by freight trains. The passenger trains
take the route: Govindpuri-Kanpur Central-Chandari.

Kanpur Central-Chandari has a single line stretch of about 2 KM.
It does result in delays some times.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: doubling of daund-bhigvan line

Date: 01 Sep 1999 22:51:39 -0500


Zubin,

AFAIK the Daund Bhigwan section is already double line. I have heard
reports
that this has been on for the last two years and by now the work must
have been
finished.

Apurva

Zubin Lee wrote:

> hi folks,
>
> it seems that doubling work of the DD-bhigvan line is scheduled to
start
> soon. a couple of days ago there was a tender notice asking for
> transportation of railway sleepers and oth. paraphernalia to the
section.
> i'm not sure whether the doubling will go right upto SUR. apurva, can
u
> provide the details ? it appears that there is some activity going on
in the
> SUR-GTL section as well. pls. correct me if i am wrong.
>
> ~zubin.
> <A HREF="http://zubin.gen-next.com/">http://zubin.gen-next.com/</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express runs 5km without engine!

Date: 01 Sep 1999 23:12:24 -0500




Avinash Pandey wrote:

> I joined this mailing list yesterday and didn't expect that I'll be
> posting
> a message so soon.

Welcome to the gang Avinash, please post frequent long messages and
participate in the numerous threads on at any time. I am very delighted
the way the IRFCA is growing.

> According to the news, the engine of 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express
> seperated (the engine coupler seems to have broken) from the train's
> rake
> between Lucknow & Bareily at about 2:30 AM in the night!

Parting of coupling is not infrequent. I think now a days the traveling
public is vigilant to pass a story to the press and the press too knows
that the readers love to read such news. Which is why we read large
reports of near accidents. If anything the IR must have tightened their
show and the accidents or near accidents must have reduced.

> The train ran without the engine for 5 KMs before coming to a halt.
> According to the news, if the driver had stopped or slowed the loco,
> the train's rake could have collided with it and caused a major
> accident.

There is something missing here. A parted rake has an immediate
application of brakes due to the brake pipe pressure returning to
normal.
After all that is the principle of fail safe braking system. Also I find
it difficult to believe that a driver would accept a train with poor
brake power. I have seen near fisticuffs between drivers and the ASMs
because the drivers refused to accept a train with poor brake power and
the ASM was in a hurry to clear the platform. It is the driver who would
be in deep trouble if his rake were to have such poor brake power. So a
driver will not take such a risk.
Also the guard has considerable control over stopping the train once he
realises that the rake has parted. And they are trained to detect these
conditions. Either this is a spiced up story or there is a serious
multiple failure where the angle cock were closed or the brake pipe had
a
block which prevented the brakes from operating. The guard was asleep
and
the train was working downgradient.

Apurva

From: lwebber <>

Subject: I'm less confused about Calcutta area - but, still Help Needed

Date: 02 Sep 1999 00:39:20 -0500


UPDATED CALCUTTA AREA INFORMATION!

This is a COMPLETE LIST of what I have accumulated to date re the
Calcutta-area IR lines. 90% is from Bradshaws, maps and my previous
program - the balance thanks to Mr. Sanyal, Shanku and Jishnu.

But there are still many missing, and some out-of-sequence and
misspelled, stations (Ulubaria? Ulberia?), I am sure.

All help is gratefully accepted!

Regards to all, and TIA

Larry



********** ER **********

* Howrah Liluah Bellur Bally Uttarpara Hind Motor
Konnagar Rishra Shrirampur Seoraphuli Jn. Baidyabati
Bhadreshwar Mankundu Chandan Nagar Chuchura Hooghly
Bandel Jn. Adi Saptagram Magra Talandu Khanyan Pandooah
Simlagarh Bainchigram Bainchi Debipur Bagila Memari Nimo
Halt Rasulpur Palsit Saktigarh Gangpur Barddhaman Jn.

* Bally Belanagar Dankuni Jn. Gobra Janai Road Begampur
Baruipara Mirzapur-Bankipur Balarmbati Kamarkundu Jn.
Madhusudanpur Chandanpur Porabazar Belmuri Sibaichandi
Hazigarh Gurap Jhapandanga Jaugram Nabagram Masagram
Palla Road Saktigarh

* Dankuni Jn. Rajchandrapur Halt Bally Halt Bally Ghat
Dakshineswar Baranagar Road Dum Dum Jn. Bidhannagar Road
Sealdah

* Seoraphuli Jn. Kamarkundu Jn. Tarkeshwar

* Dum Dum Jn. Belgharia Agarpara Sodpur Khardaha
Titagarh Barrackpore Palta Ichhapur Shyamnagar
Jagaddal Kankinara Naihati Jn. Halisahar
Kanchrapara Workshop Gate Kanchrapara Kalyani Madanpur
Simurali Palpara Chakdaha Payradanga Ranaghat Jn.
Kalinarayanpur Birnagar Taherpur Badkulia
Krishnanagar City Jn. Bahadurpur Dhubulia Muragachha
Bethuadahari Sonadanga Debagram Pagla Chandi Palassey
Rajinagar Beldanga Bhabta Sargachhi Berhampore Court
Cossimbazar Murshidabad Nasibpur Road Jiaganj Bhagwangola
Krishnapur Lalgola

* Kalyani Kalyani Silpanchal Kalyani Ghoshpara Kalyani
Simanta

* Dum Dum Jn. Princep Ghat

* Dum Dum Jn. Dum Dum Cantonment Durganagar Birati New
Barrackpur Madhyamgram Hridaypur Barasat Jn.
Dattapukur Bira Guma Ashoknagar Road Habra Gobardanga
Bangaon Jn. Petrapol

* Kalinarayanpur Phulia Habibpur Shantipur

* Barasat Jn. Kareya Kadambagachhi Basirhat Taki Road
Hasnabad

* Bangaon Jn. Ranaghat Jn. Taraknagar Halt Aranghata Bagula
Majhdia Banpur Gede

* Naihati Jn. Garifa Hooghly Ghat Bandel Jn.

* Shantipur Dignagar Krishnanagar City Jn. Amghata
Maheshganj Nabadwip Ghat

* Baliganja Jn. Lake Gardens Kalighat Taliganja New
Alipur Majherhat Brace Bridge Santoshpur Akra Nungi
Baj Baj

* Dankuni Jn. Sheakhala

* Sealdah Park Circus Baliganja Jn. Dhakuria Jadavpur
Baghajatin Garia Sonarpur Jn. Piali Champahati Ghutiari
Sharif Taldi Canning

* Sonarpur Jn. Subhasgram Malikpur Baruipur Jn.
Kalyanpur (W.B.) Magra Hat Diamond Harbour

* Baruipur Jn. Gocharan Jaynagar Majilpur Lakshmikantapur
Namkhana

* Dankuni Jn. Andul Jn. (Goods)



********** SER **********

* Howrah Tikiapara Dashnagar Ramrajatola
Santragachi Jn. Maurigram Andul Jn. Sankrail Abada
Nalpur Bauria Chengail Phuleswar Ulberia Bir-Shibpur
Kulgachia Bagnan Ghoraghata Deulti Kolaghat Mecheda
Bhogpur Narayan P. Murail Panskura Jn. Khirai Halt Haur
Radhamohanpur Bali Chak Shyam Chak Madpur Jakpur
Kharagpur Jn.

* Santragachi Jn. Shalimar

* Panskura Jn. Tamluk Jn. Digha (W.B.)

* Tamluk Jn. Dugra Chak Haldia

* Andul Jn. Bargachia Jn.

* Bargachia Jn. Chanpadanga

* Bargachia Jn. Amta

* Ramrajatola Liluah (Goods)


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From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Re: doubling of daund-bhigvan line

Date: 02 Sep 1999 00:47:09 -0500




Dear gang,

Quite a bit of the Daund - Renigunta track is doubled. I am still
talking early
1990's. About 4 stations past Renigunta on the Cuddapah track was
doubled,
Cuddapah to 2 stations south was also doubled, Wadi - Shahabad was
doubled ages
back, as was Guntakal - Gooty. I have also seen quite some work on the
Guntakal
- Raichur, and close to Wadi. A lot of the single line track on this
route of
the Great Quadrilateral is because of the number of old river bridges
that IR
feels are sufficient for the amount of traffic carried.

Raymond

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: IR MODEL

Date: 02 Sep 1999 01:15:43 -0500



Gang,

The O gauge ready to run model of EIR 0-6-0T made by my friend
Mr.I.S.Anand is featured in August 1999 issues of Railway Modeller &
Continental Modeller. Though the model is priced at GBP364.50 by the
mag.
direct order from Mr.I.S.Anand will be at much less the price mentioned
with more detailing on the loco.

Viraf.

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: doubling of daund-bhigvan line

Date: 02 Sep 1999 01:47:49 -0500


> A lot of the single line track on this route of
> the Great Quadrilateral is because of the number of old river bridges
that IR
> feels are sufficient for the amount of traffic carried.

Some of the doubled tracks in this section run quite apart. Thus we can
see WDM 2
hauled passenger and (more intretresting) freight trains running full
throat from
your train in detail. Quite a few pictures by Sundar on this subject.

Apurva

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: Three North-Eastern Railway Questions

Date: 02 Sep 1999 02:11:43 -0500



> There are 2/3 tracks going off towards Chandari from Govindpuri and
the
> rest of the tracks go to Kanpur Central. The single track (which
definitely
> is the cause of delay for all trains on the NDLS - HWH trunk route)
meets
> the other tracks at Chandari. There were some rumors of making Panki a
stop
> for fast trains like the Rajdhani in the late 80s/early 90s (so that
they
> could then take the direct route to Chandari) and the Panki station
was
> also supposed to be redesigned. Most probably the plan has been
shelved.


There have been several plans to improve transpor situation
in the city of Kanpur. But any significant change in railway
alignment is tied to proper planning for roads and highways,
and this is where the problem lies. With the state and city
totally bankrupt, it is very unlikely that any major project
will be executed anytime soon, and Railways always have an excuse
that we really need to do comprehensive transportation planning.

They can't make Panki a terminal unless the access roads can
be improved, and also a final view is taken on the highways.
(Panki is likely to be on both major highway projects -
the golden quadrilateral Delhi-Calcutta Route,
and the east-west Guwahati-Ahmedabad Route).

There was also a plan to double the Kanpur Central - Chandari
route. They did a survey, and found that there is less than
one KM of track where there is no space for doubling, and they
will need to acquire land. They would need to take over around
3 meter strip for several hundred meters. The cost was several
crores, but I guess the people living there weren't going to give
up their houses easily. And the plan seems to have been shelved.

There was also a talk of bypassing Kanpur Central for some trains.
A few months ago, they decided that Prayagraj would be the first
such train. It would go from Fatehpur to Aligarh without stopping
at Kanpur. But it has significant quota from Kanpur - 4 SL class,
and 1 AC-2T almost. So they decided to add 5 coaches to Unchahar
Express to make up for that loss. But it appears that there is a
local "passenger welfare association" which opposed this plan. They
demanded another train at similar timings, with lot more coaches,
and starting from Kanpur as compensation, something that IR could
not accept. So the status quo is maintained. A few years ago, there
was a talk of 12-hour Rajdhani to Howrah. We had discussed that on
this list also. That would have most likely bypassed Kanpur Central.
But as of now, no passenger train bypasses Kanpur Central.

Then the major point of discussion in the local newspapers
throughout the last year was what to do with the MG line,
Anwarganj-Farrukhabad. This line carries very few passengers, and
is a major reason for traffic problems in the city. The line goes
through the busiest part of the city, and is next to GT road. Since
GT road is parallel just a few meters away, it is very difficult
to build flyovers to go from GT road to the other side of the
railway tracks. There is simply no space (besides no money). There
are more than 10 trains in each direction every day. Every time
a train passes all the level crossings are closed for 5 minutes,
and the entire GT road is choked. The situation improves after
15-20 minutes, but by then another train is scheduled to pass.

One plan was to remove the line till either Kalyanpur or Mandhana
(the next station), and widen the GT road, etc. Then Mandhana or
Kalyanpur could be connected to Panki (on the mainline) by a new
line. After the track to Farrukhabad is converted to BG, the trains
would run Central-Govindpuri-Panki-Mandhana ----etc. There is also
a plan for Mandhana-Panki highway, and the land could be acquired
for both projects together. The highway would connect GT road with
NH4, thus reducing long distance road traffic through the city.
The rail link will allow the freight trains coming from Howrah side
to go on this line without having to route them via Kanpur Central.
(Chandari-Govindpuri-Panki-Mandhana-etc.) Also some slower trains to
Delhi could be routed through this route, decongesting the main line.

The other plan was to keep the line, double it till Mandhana,
convert it to BG, run DMU service, use it heavily for commuter
traffic. And to remove traffic bottlenecks, the line could
be lowered by a few feet (sort of open tunnel), and flyovers
could then be constructed in place of level crossings.

But either plan will mean the road planners, town
planners, and railway planners should sit together,
something not possible in this part of the country.

So finally after a lot of wait, Railways decided that they will simply
convert the line to BG (remains single), and not to worry about the
traffic problems in the city. Once in a while, I notice a couple of
labourers trying to level the ground. A few months ago, I noticed
that some culverts etc. being extended. I guess with conversion
being put on the backburner, every year this project will keep
getting a few crores, and some such activity will keep taking place.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express runs 5km without engine!

Date: 02 Sep 1999 02:27:00 -0500



> The matter was resolved at a nearby small station, where
> a passenger train's engine and driver (another mistake, he
> wasn't authorized to run an express train) were used to haul
> the Kathgodam express to the station.

The engine stopped at the next station. The coaches stopped 2 KM
before the station. At this station, they were looking at the
engine to see what could have gone wrong. Also, they retained
the driver to ask questions. In the meanwhile, the track had to
be cleared. There was only one engine and one crew available.
So they sent that. And this passenger engine/crew hauled the
stranded train for only 2 KM. I am sure this must have been
authorized by higher ups.

But talking of "Dainik Jagaran", this newspaper seems to have
become very active in reporting all kinds of railway news,
particularly any accidents. Last week, it reported two more
accidents (which didn't take place) in which two trains were
given signal for the same line. Both happened near Moradabad.

I don't know how this can happen so frequently. Since Gaisal,
this newspaper has reported 4 incidents in and around UP of
trains getting the signal for the wrong line, but somehow
accident didn't take place.

Also, almost every other day, there is some death by electric
current (someone travelling on roof coming from Lucknow side.
or there is an accident at level crossing (someone trying to
run across the track when the train is coming), someone falling
off the running train, or some such thing. It would appear to
me that in Kanpur city alone, more than 100 persons die every
year in railway-related accidents (in which IR may not be
directly responsible but nevertheless all these are considered
railway accidents by law). So when someone talks about the
Railway safety record and points to BBC reports or some such,
well, read local newspapers in your city, and find out how
many people die in railway accidents in your city alone.
(Not to talk about armed robberies which are taking place
almost every day somewhere or the other in UP.)

Of course, the newspaper also reports religiously anybody dying
of cold/heat/hunger, etc., on the platforms of Kanpur Central.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

From: Dwarikesh Goswami <>

Subject: Air Brake & Vaccum Brake

Date: 02 Sep 1999 03:49:33 -0500


Hi gang,
            I just wanted to know as to how can one realise whether a particular rake is air braked or vaccum braked? Which apparatus seperates the two.Which are the visual diffirences between the two.
 
Regards,
Chinmay Goswami,

From: lwebber <>

Subject: Re: 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express runs 5km without engine!

Date: 02 Sep 1999 03:57:36 -0500


Avinash Pandey said:

> According to the news, the engine of 3019 HWH-Kathgodam Express
> seperated (the engine coupler seems to have broken) from the train's
> rake
> between Lucknow & Bareily at about 2:30 AM in the night!
> The train ran without the engine for 5 KMs before coming to a halt.
> According to the news, if the driver had stopped or slowed the loco,
> the train's rake could have collided with it and caused a major
> accident.
> (Here's some intelligent thinking) Instead he sped the
> engine away from the coaches hurtling towards
> it and tried to communicate with the gaurd through his walkie-talkie,
> but guess what, his batteries had gone down and the spare
> batteries were dead!! (I just can't believe this, why have a
> walkie-talkie at all if this is how they are used & maintained!)
> The matter was resolved at a nearby small station, where
> a passenger train's engine and driver (another mistake, he
> wasn't authorized to run an express train) were used to haul
> the Kathgodam express to the station.


I too think the news report is probably "over-spiced" - basically for
the same reasons that Apurva set out.
I would believe that the guard was asleep, though - I wonder if some
passengers, realizing what was wrong, and finding the train engine-less,
woke him him up. :)



A funny (but ould have turned out very unfunny) *story* I recall (from
over 10 years ago, no certainty at all it was on IR) was about a similar
decoupling (of all bogeys from the engine) - but here the engine driver
failed to notice this had happened (Indicators for brake pressure etc.?
Change in "feel"??) and duly proceeded for quite a distance to the next
stop, where he pulled up at the appropriate mark-point on the platform.

History did not exactly record what passed between the A.S.M. (or
equivalent) - who obviously noticed there was no train in the platform,
only an engine - and the driver... It must have been quite colorful!
;P


Regards to all

Larry


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From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: doubling of daund-bhigvan line

Date: 02 Sep 1999 04:58:25 -0500


Hello,
AFAIK, the entire exercise (doubling of Daund-Bhigwan,
Renigunta-Guntakal etc.) is part of upgradation and reinforcement of the
Bombay-Madras line prior to its electrification.
The line is said to be slated for electrification as soon as the track
is fit enough to take faster and longer trains.
Hence the frenzy of activity.
About time too! The Bombay-Madras line is probably the most neglected
trunk line in the country. I cannot believe that most of it is still
single track!
Cheers.
Shankar



Zubin Lee wrote:
>
> hi folks,
>
> it seems that doubling work of the DD-bhigvan line is scheduled to
start
> soon. a couple of days ago there was a tender notice asking for
> transportation of railway sleepers and oth. paraphernalia to the
section.
> i'm not sure whether the doubling will go right upto SUR. apurva, can
u
> provide the details ? it appears that there is some activity going on
in the
> SUR-GTL section as well. pls. correct me if i am wrong.
>
> ~zubin.
> <A HREF="http://zubin.gen-next.com/">http://zubin.gen-next.com/</A>

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