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From: Vdate <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 30 Aug 1999 17:22:26 -0500


Gyaneshwari ( Dyaneshwari) is the commentary by Sant Gyaneshwar(
Dyaneshwar)
on Gita. He wrote it 700 years ago in a town called Nevase. He achieved
Nirvana (Samadhi) in Alandi.

From: Muhammed Khan <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 30 Aug 1999 17:36:44 -0500


Hi Apurva:
It is interesting to have a discussion in a lighter vein. The word
"Gondwana" may have its origin in the "Gond" tribes that inhabited
around
Nagpur and Chattisgarh area. They did have small principalities and were
often a sore point to the major kingdoms. In Nagpur one of the Railway
culb
is named as Gondwana Club. The express must have derived its name from
it.
Muhammed
----- Original Message -----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: <raymond/Polaris@polaris.email
Cc: Suresh Mutuswami <suresh@math.email <irfca@cs.email
Sent: Monday, August 30, 1999 7:07 AM
Subject: Re: Odd names


> > It sounds far-fetched even
> > to me, though you will agree that "Gondwana Express" has an
agreeable
roll
> > to it.
>
> The Jabalpur shed had a WP named as 'Gondwana Queen'. I still get
goose
pimples
> thinking about the name. The JBP shed had a 1/15 scale compressed air
powered model of
> this power, it moved on a short stretch of tracks with sound effects !
>
> Apurva
>
>
>

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Odd names and humour to add!

Date: 30 Aug 1999 18:56:23 -0500


Dear Dr. Walker (or Should I put it as "Hello, Ken"?)

That was one eye-opener for me. After reading your missive, I have a
feeling that I should read more on the life-works of the luminaries
of the past who have influenced the future of our World.

Thank you once again.

Regards.

Sarosh.

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Odd names and humour to add!

Date: 30 Aug 1999 19:46:33 -0500


>
> "Capitol" is the building in Washington, DC that houses the United
States
> Congress. There was also a Capitol building in ancient Rome.

Hello Mike,

"Le Capitole" is a French (SNCF) TEE (Trans Europe Express) train
running
between Paris & Toulouse. Such is a demand of this train that now there
is
a morning & evening "Le Capitole". And if both these trains are
overbooked
then you find several "Capitoles" following the previous one. I have a
photograph of 5 capitoles patiently waiting their turn to depart from
Paris.

Viraf

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Samit Roychoudhury <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 30 Aug 1999 19:49:52 -0500


shankar

thanks for the info, i had no idea.
i still feel the train deserved a more regular name.

samit

From: S Pai <>

Subject: [off-topic

Date: 30 Aug 1999 20:04:57 -0500



Sorry for the off-topic post, but I couldn't resist this as etymology
and
languages are an interest of mine.

> Obviously the word "Capitolium" was first, the "Capitol", which
accomodated
> the Senate in ancient Rome, when it was once the capital of the roman
> empire.

Are you sure about this? I believe the Capitolium was a temple (of
Jupiter) on the Tarpeian (or Capitoline) hill in Rome, predating the
institution of the Roman Senate. By the way, you can still visit a
place
known as the Capitoline buildings on a hill in Rome today; but I'm not
sure
they have anything to do with the Capitolium of ancient times.

> And now comes the clue: The latin word has its origin from the old
indian
> words "kapalam", meaning scull and/or "kapuchalam", which means "hairs
on
> the back of the head", the occiput (as far as my old latin dictionary
is
> right in that point).

An interesting idea, but it is more likely the words are simply
cognates:
not derived one from the other, but both from a common ancestor in
proto-Indo-European. I'd be interested to know more if you think
otherwise, as I believe it's quite rare to find direct borrowings
between
Latin and Sanskrit other than for proper names and the like.

[If anyone's interested in pursuing this, please e-mail me directly and
not
to the IRFCA list.]

--Satish

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Re: RMS

Date: 30 Aug 1999 20:48:00 -0500



> No, the entire RMS operation is now regarded too cumbersome and has
been
> almost done away with. None of that glorified sorting en-route, stamp
> cancellation on the run etc.

Do you know where RMS is still current, if anywhere at all?

> No rushing down to the 'mail' van to post an urgent leter.

As a child I used to get quite a thrill out of being able to post a
letter
at a train! Some of those RMS coaches even had mail slots at the side
at
one or two points. There were also some special cancellations that one
could get at RMS vans on occasion (for first-day covers and the like).

> No new Mail trains have been introduced for the past nearly two
> decades.

I hadn't realized that! So is there any significance to the designation
"Mail" these days, or is it generally interchangeable with the
designation
"Express" (perhaps not a slow express but not a very fast one either, in
keeping with Vijay's hierarchy of possible service levels)? I suppose
it
also means that the number of Mails keeps decreasing with time as older
ones are renamed or reinvented or dropped.

Which Mails are the fastest ones, these days? Any notable ones that
clock in at a level of fast expresses or Rajdhani/Shatabdi trains?

--Satish

From: Suresh Mutuswami <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 00:10:28 -0500



On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Muhammed Khan wrote:

> Hi Apurva:
> It is interesting to have a discussion in a lighter vein. The word
> "Gondwana" may have its origin in the "Gond" tribes that inhabited
around
> Nagpur and Chattisgarh area. They did have small principalities and
were
> often a sore point to the major kingdoms. In Nagpur one of the Railway
culb
> is named as Gondwana Club. The express must have derived its name from
it.
> Muhammed


"Gondwana" (as in "Gondwanaland") is not related to the Gond tribe --
it
is a geological term as Raymond correctly pointed out. However, I don't
know the origin of the word "Gondwanaland" and it is possible that it
was
derived from something connected to the Gonds. Any experts on word
origins? Incidentally, Gondia (near Nagpur) was the capital of the
(former) Gond kingdom.

I fully agree with Raymond and Apurva that "Gondwana" is a great name to
give to a train/engine whatever the motivations for doing so!

Suresh

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 01:32:09 -0500


Gentlemen.....

"Gondwanaland" was so named by the Austrian Geologist Edward Suess
at the turn of the century. He was working on continental drift
theory and based his name for the "super continent" after Gondwana, a
key geological province in east central India....thats were he got
his ideas I believe

Cheers

Iain
ex Geophysicist now Railway Bookseller (much more fun!)

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 02:14:27 -0500


The term "Gondwanaland" was used to refer to the land mass of the
earth which was concentrated in the southern hemisphere. This was a
billion or more years ago. Later, this land mass fragmented into what
we now call as the five continents and started drifting apart. I hope
this will clarify the origin of the word "Gondwana".

Sarosh

From: Suresh Mutuswami <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 02:21:28 -0500



On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, S.B.Mehta wrote:

> The term "Gondwanaland" was used to refer to the land mass of the
> earth which was concentrated in the southern hemisphere. This was a
> billion or more years ago. Later, this land mass fragmented into what
> we now call as the five continents and started drifting apart. I hope
> this will clarify the origin of the word "Gondwana".
>
> Sarosh
>

Dear Sarosh,

The word "Gondwanaland" IS used currently in exactly the sense that you
mention. However, what is not clear to me is how the word
"Gondwanaland"
came into being in the first place. Who coined it and why did he/she
choose "Gondwanaland"? (Presumably some geologist coined this term.)
Did
the choice have something to do with the Gond tribe?

Suresh

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Animal V/S Mankind...

Date: 31 Aug 1999 02:55:34 -0500



Hi!


On Mon, 30 Aug 1999, Sundar Krishnamurthy wrote:

> The woes of city commuters

> >From the paltry few lakh passengers it carried a few decades ago,
with only
> a marginal increase in the number of rakes, WR today makes around a
> thousand trips everyday and transports over 30 lakh passengers. It
speaks
> volumes about its efficiency.
> Each train on an average carries more than double its earmarked
capacity
> per rake with standees. During peak hours, that rises to three times
the
> capacity per train. One has to experience the discomfort to believe
it.


That's true, one has to experience it. And we the Mumbaites do
experience
it daily. Many might have seen transportation of cattle in goods
wagons. I dare say they were better off. Here on suburban trains the
condition during peak hours is worst. There is hardly an inch to move
and
station after station people try to get in & it seems there is not end
to
it till the train reachs it's destination.

But no one has got any clue as to how this problem can be solved. The
ways
mentioned in the Times article are never tried out.Nor the system of
area
wise holidays tried out to lessen burden on traffic systems. Nor the
shifting
of big organization offices from main Fort area to northern parts of
city
is given serious thought to.

The so called city fathers have no time to sort out these matters.And
that's the pity and it seems that the non ending plight of Mumbaiwallas
will go on.


Shrinivas

From: John Lacey <>

Subject: Train names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 06:23:55 -0500


Reading the mails about the origin of train names has been
educational, entertaining and enlightening!
I have had a quick look at the Western T/T of 1953 and the Central of
1952 and the only " interesting" names there are the already mentioned
Flying Ranee and the Deccan Queen. Apart from the Punjab and Frontier
Mails and the Grand Trunk Express, all the other named trains have plain
destination-type names such as Moghalsarai Express, Amritsar Express,
Nagpur Passenger & Parcel or " geographical " names such as
Gujarat Mail and Godavari Valley Express.
As well as the Deccan Queen, Poona was served by three Poona
Passenegers, two Poona Expresses, one Poona Mail, and the Poona Janata
Express. Additionally, there was a Madras Mail, a Madras Express and a
weekly Madras Janata Express passing through. In the Up direction the
Deccan Queen would stop at Neral on Mondays only " during Matheran
season " and then run 5 minutes later to Bombay while the following Mail
made a daily stop there " during Matheran season".
Perhaps the most unusual notation is in WR NG table No 78 (
Piplod-Devgad Baria ) where trains 811/812 are described as " Sentinel
Mixed 2,3."
Cheers,
John Lacey

From: Sundar Krishnamurthy <>

Subject: Re: Odd Names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 07:16:32 -0500


Hello Prateep

I secretly have a passion for trains with feminine names... and it gives

them an exotic aura of appeal. Names like Deccan Queen and Flying Ranee
must have been chosen under an inspired (high?) mood by the IR folks...
Not
that only feminine names have appeal - I remember an old Hindi song that
my
grandfather loved.. "Duniya ye Duniya, Toofan Mail"; vaguely translated
to
English - "This world is like the Toofan Mail (Toofan = Storm)". Well,
at
least you dont have a Mayurakshi Male.... oops! Mail. No offense.. all
in
good jest ;-)

My grandmother stays in Ramamurthy Nagar in Bangalore - very close to
the
Bangalore-Chennai trunk and the bye-pass Y towards Dharmavaram and
Mumbai.
The best way for me to go to the city would be to board the "Suvarna"
fast
passenger from Krishnarajapuram.. the train used to come from Marikuppam

beyong Bangarapet and I have vivid memories in this train. I would love
IR
to come up with lovely train names...

As long as there are no trains named after political goddesses and
wannabes
(Jayalalitha superfast?) - its all okay ;-)

Sundar


--------------------------------------------------------
Sundar Krishnamurthy Datamatics-ASCOM, Somerset NJ
sundar@spyring.email <A HREF="http://sundar.cjb.net">http://sundar.cjb.net</A>
ICQ: 3159776 Tel (O): +1-732-828 8686
--------------------------------------------------------
Only the Paranoid Survive - Andrew Grove, intel


> Date: Mon, 30 Aug 1999 14:48:11 -0500
> From: "Prateep Chatterjee" <prateep@umr.email
> Subject: Re: Odd names
> To: shankie@emirates.email
>
> Hi !
>
> > The quaintest name I've heard is for a train on the ER: probably the
> > only named passenger on the IR: it starts from Howrah, and is called
> > the Mayurakshi Fast Passenger.
>
> There is another passenger running between Howrah and Rampurhat
> named "Vishwabharati Fast Pgr.". Mayurakshi FP is also between
> HWH-Rampurhat but takes the longer route via Andal Jn.

From: Suresh Mutuswami <>

Subject: Re: Odd names

Date: 31 Aug 1999 07:22:29 -0500



On Tue, 31 Aug 1999, Iain A Fraser wrote:

> Gentlemen.....
>
> "Gondwanaland" was so named by the Austrian Geologist Edward Suess
> at the turn of the century. He was working on continental drift
> theory and based his name for the "super continent" after Gondwana, a
> key geological province in east central India....thats were he got
> his ideas I believe
>
> Cheers
>
> Iain
> ex Geophysicist now Railway Bookseller (much more fun!)

I guess that we now have good evidence to tie the term "Gondwana" to the
Gonds. Also, the area around Nagpur was part of the Gond kingdom in the
17th-18th centuries. A web search revealed that the city of Nagpur was
in
fact, founded in 1739 by the Gond prince Bhakt Buland. The city
remained
under the control of the Gonds until 1769 or thereabouts when it was
taken
over by the Marathas. Thus, IR's naming of their Delhi-Nagpur train as
"Gondwana Express" appears to have been on the dot after all!

Suresh

From: Sundar Krishnamurthy <>

Subject: Re: Animal V/S Mankind

Date: 31 Aug 1999 08:18:56 -0500


Hello Shrinivas

> That's true, one has to experience it. And we the Mumbaites
> do experience it daily.
*snip*

Well - it reminds me of an interesting incident that happened sometime
in
late '96. It was something like 8:30 am on a Monday morning in Goregaon
on
the Mumbai Western Railway line. There is a level crossing immediately
after the station on the southern end and a truck had a problem crossing

the road. As a result, the lines were held up for around five minutes
and a
packed peak hour Virar-Churchgate fast local had to make a compulsory
halt
in Goregaon on platform #4. People from the slow platform #2 rushed on
the
overbridges trying to board this train. However - it turned into a
comedy
(tragedy?) of sorts when commuters in the fast train refused to let
these
people board the train as it was *not* meant for them. With tempers so
fragile - many fights ensued at the doors of the train before the level
crossing was cleared and the train managed to leave without some of the
regular passengers who were pulled out in the fight !

Another fight happened in early 98 on CR when passengers from Thane and
Mulund had a major brawl over the local trains... people from Thane
complained that the Mulund commuters bound for Mumbai CST would purchase

passes to Thane. In the morning most commuters to Mumbai CST from Mulund

would board the train going to Thane for getting seats; and later travel

back in the same train from Thane to CST. The problem got so acute that
Thane commuters found there would be no seats in the train that pulled
in
from Mumbai CST and would go back in some time. Soon Mulund commuters
would
be forcibly displaced from their seats at Thane and the fights reached
such
a crescendo that the commuters called a strike in Mulund over the matter

and stopped all trains by squatting on the tracks.

The only solution to the royal Mumbai commuter mess would be to stagger
timings in Mumbai CST and provide a means to reach Mumbai CST quickly
over
the bay to Raigad. Has anyone ever studied a rail link (underground?)
from
Raigad to Gateway of India? I dont see population bomb being defused and

people stopping from migrating to Mumbai and unless IR plans for the
next
few decades... there would be no solution ! I know - the link sounds
like
an impossible dream but the 55 road flyovers in Mumbai were realized (at

astronomical costs too!) And most trains that I've travelled out here in

New York vanish underground at the slightest pretext ;-) People in
Mumbai
could then get houses on the mainland and travel to Mumbai on fast
(enclosed) trains that have no encroachment problems!!!

Another fallout of the crush load on the Mumbai suburban sector makes
Dadar
one of the busiest stations in the world in terms of overbridge commuter

traffic. Does anyone have statistics on competition ? I think Dadar
beats
all stations in India! I could be wrong though.....

Regards

Sundar

--------------------------------------------------------
Sundar Krishnamurthy Datamatics-ASCOM, Somerset NJ
sundar@spyring.email <A HREF="http://sundar.cjb.net">http://sundar.cjb.net</A>
ICQ: 3159776 Tel (O): +1-732-828 8686
--------------------------------------------------------
Only the Paranoid Survive - Andrew Grove, intel

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: indian super-railway

Date: 31 Aug 1999 13:10:50 -0500


Hello.

Check out my IR supersite (I only call it that. Its nothing super as
compared to say Sundar's).

Click on:

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/9896/superrailway.htm">http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/9896/superrailway.htm</A>

Everything seems to be ticking in an orderly fashion when last
tested.Nontheless, do let me know of any broken links or missing
thumbnails.

I have not yet installed the url for the index on the last page. I says
click on the foll url, but there is nothing there after that. I'll put
it up in a day or two.

This is a large site, so do not open it if you are in a hurry.

Enjoy!

Cheers.

Shankar

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Driving simulators

Date: 31 Aug 1999 14:28:06 -0500


Hi.....

I seem to remember a thread on loco driving simulators available on
the web. If it was this one then great, if not have a look at this
page. The writer of the program is a customer of mine as well as a
correspondant on matters locomotive on the LNER mailing list. He has
expressed a willingness to write a simulator for an Indian route(s)
if someone is prepared to help with gradient profiles and information
on locos/routes.
Bryans email is : bryan@battewell.email.

Hes a heck of a nice guy......

Cheers

Iain
Aerolite Books (UK)

Steam Loco Simulator: <A HREF="http://www.battewell.freeserve.co.uk">http://www.battewell.freeserve.co.uk</A>

From: Sundar Krishnamurthy <>

Subject: Whatta site!

Date: 31 Aug 1999 15:23:56 -0500


Heyyy Shankar!

I disagree with you completely. Your site is a marvel and I seek your
permission to make the MLR 741 on the steam section as my wallpaper
(will
dispose off the uninspiring Amtrak AEM-7 that managed to find its way
here). Gang - this site gets a 5/5 rating from me. Three cheers to
Shankar
and I think I am fortunate enough to possess some of his photographs in
print :-)

My site is nowhere near. I guess there's a real spider website on mine?
My
<A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sundar/itg/pics">http://members.xoom.com/sundar/itg/pics</A> directory contains roughly 200
scans and need some time to write on the pix out there and link them to
my
site. I was supposed to do it some time back but work always keeps
getting
the better of me.

Will get back real soon.....

Sundar

--------------------------------------------------------
Sundar Krishnamurthy Datamatics-ASCOM, Somerset NJ
sundar@spyring.email <A HREF="http://sundar.cjb.net">http://sundar.cjb.net</A>
ICQ: 3159776 Tel (O): +1-732-828 8686
--------------------------------------------------------
Only the Paranoid Survive - Andrew Grove, intel

From: lwebber <>

Subject: Junctions That Aren't?

Date: 31 Aug 1999 17:18:04 -0500


"JUNCTIONS" THAT AREN'T?

All of the following are called Junctions, but do not meet "my" >2
routes criterion. Is the reason I have given in brackets the correct
reason for their being called Junctions? Please, I am not hung up about
"Junctions" ;-) - but validating Junctions is important to establishing
the integrity of my routing/bradshaw program.

Balharshah Jn. (SCR & CR meet point?)

Chopan Jn. (NR & ER meet point?)

Coimbatore Jn. (Is there some connection to Madukkarai (what is
Madukkarai?))

Kishanganj Jn. (on NEFR - some BG/MG meeting point (but many other
stations have both)?)

Mahuda Jn. (No clue, but that whole area I am not 100% confident about -
pl see below for other questions in ER/SER region)

Mahuva Jn. (In old days, MG/NG meet here, NG line to Bhavnagar Terminus
I think is out of service)

Mettupalaiyam Jn.(MG/BG changeover; should not Kalka also then be called
Junction?)

Parasia Jn. (SER & CR meet point?)

Pathardih Jn. (OK, Pathardih Bazar is actual meeting point I think -
Pathardih Jn. itself is a terminus?)

Piplod Jn. (On WR main line near Godhra - I see a little NG spur on
several maps - where does it go to? I assume it is inactive)

Visakhapatnam Jn. (OK, I know why, actual track meeting is one station
later...)

Wadi Jn. (actual meeting point is one station away at Halakatta - but
also, SCR & CR meeting pt)


Thanks for any help - and regards to all

Larry


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