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From: Roy, Soumya <>

Subject:

Date: 23 Aug 1999 14:33:10 -0500


Hi All,

I am probably the latest addition to this e-group and I am really
fascinated
by the amount of info exchange going on on IR .

To start with I had a couple of questions :
1) Why are the WAP5s (the ABB locos) all housed at GZB(Ghaziabad rail
shed)
2) Has IR introduced the WAP6 series ? and if so can anyone fwd the
technical specs of this ?

Thanks,
Soumya Roy

From: Sundar Krishnamurthy <>

Subject: `I Came for the morning shift and it was a mad house'

Date: 23 Aug 1999 14:47:33 -0500


Folks...

On the 24th August TOI available online now for a day... look up

<A HREF="http://www.timesofindia.com/today/24mbom23.htm">http://www.timesofindia.com/today/24mbom23.htm</A>

`I Came for the morning shift and it was a mad house'

Saturday, August 14: I was on the late night shift from 11 pm to 7 am on

the South-east sector between Kalyan and Pune. Night jobs are really
tough
since we have to control the suburban trains at Karjat. Luckily the last

train came to Karjat on time and we breathed a sigh of relief since the
motorman could get his two hour sleep and start his return journey at
2:13
am for CST. All the six trains leaving the CST including the Hussain
Sagar
Express and the Pune passenger left on time.

Sunday, August 15: No holiday for us. In fact, the control department
works
round-the-clock to ensure smooth functioning of the suburban, mail and
goods line. I had a morning shift which is quite chaotic since the
punctuality of the suburban trains is a must at peak hours. It was a
smooth
day since Koyna Express which leaves 8:45 am from CST was cleared fast.
It
passed Lonavala by 10:40 am after which I gave instructions for
maintenance
work in the western ghats. I was at work till the evening, felt really
exhausted when I returned home to Thane.

Monday, August 16: I was placed again on the Kalyan-Pune board.
Throughout
the morning shift, I was running in and out. Called up our three cabins
in
the ghats who informed me that the weather was foggy till sunrise.
Informed
them that the inter-city trains from Pune have to be monitored otherwise

the entire schedule of the suburban trains would be upset. I had to
regulate a few trains and we maintained the schedule. What a relief.

Tuesday, August 17: Worked on the same board. It was a rough day, in
fact I
didn't even have time to have lunch. Now I have decided to bring dry
food
stuff in my lunch box so that I pop it in my mouth while working.Our
work
is very similar to that of the air traffic controller. But unlike them,
we
do not have any state-of-the-art technology to help move our trains in
order. We just have detailed charts of all the stations in front of us
on
the basis of which we handle emergencies. Phones are the only source of
contact at the site cabins.

Wednesday, August 18: Started with the morning shift. Deccan Queen was
late
since visibility was very low in the ghats. Informed the gang-men to
monitor the route and the train could pick up speed later. And as
expected,
the effect percolated on every train on the south-eastern route. The
suburban line was affected and I had a tough time juggling around the
trains for speedy clearance. It is totally incorrect to say that our
priority are the mail trains. In fact, top preference is given to the
suburban trains, which are cleared fast.

Thursday, August 19: Worked as a supervisor on the suburban line. I just

had to monitor all the boards to help the controllers to see that all 97

trains coming to the CST between 8:30 am and 11 am were on time. Out of

these 80 came on time, while the rest were late by over five to seven
minutes. Some were held up for cleaning, two trains faced signal
failures.
Fortunately, it was nothing serious because if one train is held up for
long, eight other trains are affected badly. I could sense the pressure
building up amongst all 48 of us who are putting in more than 12 hours
of
work daily.

Friday, August 20: Came for the morning shift and it was a mad-house.
There
was a diesel engine failure at Kurla which had to be cleared fast. Just
got
information that some people have told our security officer at Kurla
that
the gates just near platform number nine between the rail colony and
Nehru
Nagar will have to closed for an hour and half from 12 noon for prayers
at
the nearby mosque. Tried hard to convince these men from the CST control

that the entire day's schedule will collapse if this happens. After a
lot
of deliberations we succeeded.

As told to Smita Deshmukh

(C) Times of India

From: Rajesh P. Halarnkar <>

Subject: Re: Roadrailer

Date: 23 Aug 1999 14:49:35 -0500



The railways definitely have a good opportunity to get a greater share
of
the goods transportation business by introducing new concepts like the
roadrailer, containers and even carrying trucks on flat cars. However
trucks
traveling by road have one massive advantage - speed. In 1990 the
railways
wanted three weeks to transport stuff from Delhi to Bangalore while the
same
stuff sent by truck made it in 4 days. Unless the railways have
drastically
improved in speed in the past nine years they are not going to pose any
competition to trucks and will remain the carrier of low value bulk
goods.

Do other members of the list have any input as to why the railways are
so
slow. It cannot be in the railways interest to be so slow. If a
passenger
train can do the delhi bangalore in 2 days (I know it is 36 - 40 hours
but
let us say 2 days) a goods wagon should not take more than six. A wagon
that
does the distance in one third the time could in theory make three times
the
money by carrying more goods. Or the railways could do with one third
the
number of wagons, thereby saving on inventory, book work etc. There must
be
a very good reason for the present state of matters.


------------------------------------------------------------------
Rajesh P. Halarnkar
Application Development Consultants


-----Original Message-----
From: sank@idane2.email
[mailto:sank@idane2.email Behalf Of Jayant S
Sent: Sunday, August 22, 1999 11:03 PM
To: Apurva Bahadur; IR List
Subject: Re: Roadrailer

Apurva Bahadur wrote:
Apurva wrote:
> This is a part of customer friendly approach to the IR freight
service.
The road
> trailer and the rail vehicle will both belong to the IR. Only the
container will
> belong to the customer.
I'll also check what happened to the Kirloskar-Wabash jv.

> I could ask the yard master to let me know the next time it is in the
yard.
I'd really like that, but this will be possible only in the 1st week
of Sep as I am in Delhi till then (coming back by the Rajdhani
to Mumbai: looking forward to it !!). I'll let you know.

IR has a good chance of winning back large consignment transport
from the road transporters, and if they are serious about Roadrailer
technology, they could pull it off. Today, most road trucks in India
are of the two-axle 12-15 tonne variety: they chew up the roads
quite badly and are heavy on fuel in terms of payload carried.
Containers are gaining ground slowly as operators realise the
savings to be made with articulated rigs (the Volvo FH12 has been
quite sucessful since its introduction), but most roads in India
are simply unable to provide the space a large rig needs. The
Railways have a good opportunity at this time to form part of a
Roadrailer system, which does not need the kind of handling
facilities container transhipment would. Hope it works out.

--
JS
--

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: Re:

Date: 23 Aug 1999 15:25:24 -0500


1) There are special facilities maintained by ABB folks at GZB that
don't
exist anywhere else. (I believe Harsh mentioned that the ABB staff don't
allow IR crews to work on the WAP5).

BTW, Does anyone have a list of trains that run with the WAP5?

2) WAP6s are WAP4s fitted with a Mark IV bogie, to try and achieve
speeds of
160km/h. These locos were deployed at Baroda, but had various problems
operating at the high speeds. They were subsequently restricted to run
at
slower speeds, and moved to Asansol, where they are used to haul longer
trains on the HWH-MGS chord line. You can see several pictures of WAP6s
22401 and 22402 at
<A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html</A>
As you may see, they look very similar to WAP4s (except the bogies). In
fact, 22402's markings just had the 4 painted over and replaced by a 6,
indicating it's origins.

Shanku

-----Original Message-----
From: Roy, Soumya [mailto:SRoy@ENERGY.email
Sent: Monday, August 23, 1999 2:33 PM
To: 'irfca@cs.email
Subject:


Hi All,

I am probably the latest addition to this e-group and I am really
fascinated
by the amount of info exchange going on on IR .

To start with I had a couple of questions :
1) Why are the WAP5s (the ABB locos) all housed at GZB(Ghaziabad rail
shed)
2) Has IR introduced the WAP6 series ? and if so can anyone fwd the
technical specs of this ?

Thanks,
Soumya Roy

From: S Pai <>

Subject: Re: Roadrailer

Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:08:32 -0500



[Why freight traffic seems slower than passenger traffic]

Some thoughts:

1. Same set of tracks used for both passenger and freight traffic (no
dedicated lines).
2. Passenger trains are naturally given a much higher priority.
3. Loading / unloading freight is more complex and time-consuming than
getting passengers on and off a train.
4. The freight constituency is not considered as politically important
as
the passenger constituency by politicians, naturally.
5. [speculation] Most goods trains, except regularly scheduled goods
"specials" are probably sent on an "as-needed" basis; i.e. they wait
till they have enough to put together a normal-sized rake for and
then
send it out, so some freight shipments might just have to wait for
some
time before the journey begins. (Someone more familiar with freight
operations can probably comment on whether this is close to the
truth.)

Are there any "goods expresses" that reach any significant speed (say
120km/h or more) anywhere on IR? I know there are some special services
that have some sort of guaranteed delivery time, but even those probably
aren't really handled at high speeds. (?) Note -- a loaded freight
train
will take far longer than a passenger train to halt in case of an
emergency; this might also limit the speed of freights on busy sections
(and it may be uneconomical to use shorter rakes to get around this).

--Satish

From: Mike Brooker <>

Subject: Re: Cameras are no help.

Date: 23 Aug 1999 19:49:47 -0500


It is also noticed that even experts cannot pinpoint the reasons
which cause a disaster. Technology used in airplanes such as the CVR
and FDR should be devised for the Railways, too. This will be in
keeping with high standards of engine technology. Pundits, what say
thou?

What are "CVR" and "FDR"? I can guess that in this context the latter
term
does not mean Franklin Delano Roosevelt :)

The web site about the rail link across the Bering Strait between Alaska
and
Russia is a lovely dream, that has about as much chance of becoming
reality
as pork becoming halal. How about a rail link between India and Sri
Lanka??

********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: NID

Date: 23 Aug 1999 20:14:32 -0500


Apurva wrote:
> I suppose no other group of professionals are more qualified
> to handle the ergonomic and other 'human engineering' issues
> than the NID gang.
Graduates from the Industrial design Centers of some IITs
are also equally qualified.

> Is there a specific course in your
> education about workplace design including the design of
> vehicle (auto, rail, ship, aircraft) controls ?
Not specifically regarding transport, but there
are several courses which focus on human interface
with objects or machines. As part of one of these,
a colleague and I had analysed the YDM3/YDM5 control
stand. We came up with a desktop design and a
recommendation for twin cabs which would better
suit IR needs.

--
JS
--

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Cameras are no help.

Date: 23 Aug 1999 20:26:34 -0500


> From: "Mike Brooker" <aum108@idirect.email
> To: "S.B.Mehta" <sarosh>, "Apurva Bahadur" <iti@vsnl.email
> Cc: <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Re: Cameras are no help.
> Date: Mon, 23 Aug 1999 22:49:47 -0400

> It is also noticed that even experts cannot pinpoint the reasons
> which cause a disaster. Technology used in airplanes such as the CVR
> and FDR should be devised for the Railways, too. This will be in
> keeping with high standards of engine technology. Pundits, what say
> thou?
>
> What are "CVR" and "FDR"? I can guess that in this context the latter
term
> does not mean Franklin Delano Roosevelt :)
>
No, Mike, CVR stands for Cockpit Voice Recorder and FDR stands for
Flight Data Recorder. These are referred to as 'Black Box' in
layman's term. Here, CVR for the railways will mean Cabin Voice
Recorder and the FDR could be re-designated as TDR or Track Data
Recorder. Who knows, these could become realities in the near future?


> The web site about the rail link across the Bering Strait between
Alaska and
> Russia is a lovely dream, that has about as much chance of becoming
reality
> as pork becoming halal. How about a rail link between India and Sri
Lanka??

A good idea or rather good intentioned idea which could go awry what
with militants galore in this region. Let this also be a dream.

> ********************************************************************
> Mike Brooker
> 99 Wychcrest Ave.,
> Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
> CANADA
> (416) 536-7406
> ********************************************************************
>
Sarosh.

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Roadrailer

Date: 23 Aug 1999 20:34:15 -0500


"Rajesh P. Halarnkar" wrote:

> Unless the railways have drastically
> improved in speed in the past nine years they are not going to pose
any
> competition to trucks and will remain the carrier of low value bulk
goods.

As seen on railway administrations worldwide, most of the time
taken up with wagonload consignments is used up at yards. Trains
have, over the decades, tended to carry goods which are uniform for
a given rake: foodgrain, raw materials, fuel, minerals etc. The
concept of a single booked wagon consignment is probably on its
way out here too. In most countries, single consigments are
containerised, or carried by TOFC trains where loading gauge
permits. Containerisation seems to really be picking up in
India, but requires strategically placed transhipment depots
with heavy lift facilities. Roadrailers, on the other hand,
do not need much more than a long stretch of track at road level.

I am just wondering if there is some sort of hybrid Roadrailer
cum container trailer in existence: basically a spine car with
road wheels that can be placed on a rail wheelset also. This
would provide a lot of flexibility as it could carry a standard
shipping container overland without having to lift between
road and rail. Is something like this possibly what Apurva
has seen ? There do seem to be Roadrailers that can carry
standard Euro pallettes.

Regarding C L Zeni's apprehensions about heavy rigs in
India: yes, it is tricky, but I have seen massive Volvo
6-axle rigs climbing the Mumbai-Pune ghat section.
These rigs are much bigger than Ashok Leyland trucks.

--
JS
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: My vote for knowing whos-who

Date: 23 Aug 1999 20:38:53 -0500


Anand Krishnan wrote:

> That would be a great idea. Good suggestion Samit. A very brief
> profile of 1-2 lines mainly designation+work experience would actually
> suffice. Can we just start off with exchanging our profiles to the
list or
> everyone send in their profiles to one person and that person compiles
it.
> In that case I dont mind compiling this if each one of you can send me
a
> mail giving a small intro. What say the others. Seniors of the list
please
> advice.

I suppose as long as it is voluntary it should be
okay. Those of us who have security concerns need not
submit info, but it will be nice if you can compile
basic info from those who do not mind sharing it.
I personally have no problem with this, but I can
see that some of our friends here may want to retain
priivacy, and this ought to be respected.
--
JS
--

From: S.B.Mehta <>

Subject: Re: Privacy factor was RE: My vote.....

Date: 23 Aug 1999 22:04:54 -0500


> From: "Anand Krishnan" <krish_nand@hotmail.email
> To: samr@vsnl.email
> Cc: irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Privacy factor was RE: My vote.....
> Date: Tue, 24 Aug 1999 08:42:58 IST

> Hi Samit,
> I do understand that it is better and safer to maintain some
bit of
> privacy especially when dealing with a big group like this. I was a
little
> complacent on the fact that we have only 20-25 active members at any
given
> point of time. Though on paper our count would have been 100 most of
> them[other than the active members] hesitate to contribute. I wonder
if the
> mails are even read. How good will it be if there is a lot of
contribution.
> Thats where i guess an intro would have helped but not guaranteed.
>
> Shankar,
> Your point well taken.
>
> Kind regards,
> Anand
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>
> Hi, Anand,

I would safely presume that ALL mails are read by ALMOST ALL the
members. The hitch lies where maybe too much technical aspects are
discussed. Quite a few members, like myself, could only read the
matter without understanding it. However, this should not mean that
points of discussion should be those which are of interest to all.
That way the flavour of this unique group will be lost. So, each one
of us must carry on the subjects of discussion which are of interest
to the member concerned.

Regards.

Sarosh.

From: Mike Brooker <>

Subject: Re: My vote for knowing whos-who

Date: 23 Aug 1999 22:17:59 -0500


That would be a great idea. Good suggestion Samit. A very brief
>> profile of 1-2 lines mainly designation+work experience would
actually
>> suffice. Can we just start off with exchanging our profiles to the
list
or
>> everyone send in their profiles to one person and that person
compiles
it.
>> In that case I dont mind compiling this if each one of you can send
me a
>> mail giving a small intro. What say the others. Seniors of the list
please
>> advice.
>
>I suppose as long as it is voluntary it should be
>okay. Those of us who have security concerns need not
>submit info, but it will be nice if you can compile
>basic info from those who do not mind sharing it.
>I personally have no problem with this, but I can
>see that some of our friends here may want to retain
>priivacy, and this ought to be respected.
>--
>JS
>--

If you would like to know a bit about me, you can visit my home page --
<A HREF="http://webhome.idirect.com/~aum108/">http://webhome.idirect.com/~aum108/</A>

********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Roadrailer

Date: 24 Aug 1999 01:11:00 -0500


> Are there any "goods expresses" that reach any significant speed (say
> 120km/h or more) anywhere on IR? I know there are some special
services
> that have some sort of guaranteed delivery time, but even those
probably
> aren't really handled at high speeds. (?)

While not working at 120 Kmph, there are NE and SE freight specials
(know as
super or freight chiefs ?) out of Wadi Bundar (WB) at Mumbai. These are
to
Salt Coutours (Chennai) in case of the SE train and to Shalimar
(Calcutta) in
case of the NE train. These trains have guaranteed delivery schedules
and have
the same priority as a passenger train. These trains have been listed in
the
CR tt, atleast a few years back. I will dig up more details.

Apurva

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: My vote for knowing whos-who

Date: 24 Aug 1999 01:17:46 -0500


Hi all,
Oh! well if this is going to be considered a breach of privacy
then i
guess we just let know the geographical location. To just put in my bit
i am
a native of Chennai, working as a associate software engg. at Hyderabad
for
a multinational ERP software developer.

Kind regards,
Anand


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Privacy factor was RE: My vote.....

Date: 24 Aug 1999 01:42:58 -0500


Hi Samit,
I do understand that it is better and safer to maintain some bit
of
privacy especially when dealing with a big group like this. I was a
little
complacent on the fact that we have only 20-25 active members at any
given
point of time. Though on paper our count would have been 100 most of
them[other than the active members] hesitate to contribute. I wonder if
the
mails are even read. How good will it be if there is a lot of
contribution.
Thats where i guess an intro would have helped but not guaranteed.

Shankar,
Your point well taken.

Kind regards,
Anand


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: My vote for knowing whos-who

Date: 24 Aug 1999 01:43:12 -0500


Kya Sundar, aya kya line par ? Once a railfan, always a
railfan. The IRFCA
today has gained a giant amongst the Indian enthusiast. A king
amongst
railnuts. I had almost declared him a turncoat for abandoning
the IRFCA and
more importantly the IR for some trivial career pursuit. Good
to know that
Sundar is back.
I would compose my thought soon on railfanning and matrimony,
or how to prepare
your future wife as to who you really are. But the problem of
wife feeling neglects because the hubby is missing (or vice
versa in case of lady railfans) is a very real
one and the royal game has lost many a stalwarts due to
domestic pressures
(like Manish Karnik ?).

Apurva

Sundar Krishnamurthy wrote:

> Hello
>
> After a very long hiatus (almost a year) I'm back on the IRFCA.

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: My vote for knowing whos-who

Date: 24 Aug 1999 02:00:02 -0500


I have only read about husbands complaining about their
wives not appreciating railfanning (to put it mildly).

Are all railnuts male?

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: APURVA

Date: 24 Aug 1999 02:13:16 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> I would compose my thought soon on railfanning and matrimony,
> or how to prepare
> your future wife as to who you really are. But the problem of
> wife feeling neglects because the hubby is missing (or vice
> versa in case of lady railfans)

Aha: does the lady railfan actually exist ? :)
--
JS
--

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Thief on train...

Date: 24 Aug 1999 02:35:18 -0500




Hi!

Subject : Off beat


Yesterdays, Times Of India and it's Marathi version Maharashtra Time had
a
interesting story...

Five Pune police were bringing in a thief(Jordanian) from Ahmedabad for
some related inquiry . They were travelling on Avantika Exp. Some fellow
passenger offered this group some eatables. After consuming , this group
went totally unconscious. Till Mumbai Central they did not come to
senses.

At this stage the first one to come out was the thief. Mind you, instead
of trying to run away(may be he was handcuffed) he alerted a porter, who
in turn called in the RPF from platform. The policemen were taken to
nearby hospital & the thief... handed over to Pune police. No news to
what
happened later.

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: My vote for knowing whos-who

Date: 24 Aug 1999 03:09:01 -0500


Hello,
Indeed, thats an interesting issue. Female railbuffs are rare, but not
entirely unheard of. In my household, as my (late) grandfather's house
was next to a rail line, all the ladies in my household are train
freaks. Of course, not to htis extent.

How come none of our members are female? I remember (or is it simply my
imagination?) having seen at least two female unsubscribe requests over
the past year and a half.

Cheers.
Shankar




Dheeraj Sanghi wrote:
>
> I have only read about husbands complaining about their
> wives not appreciating railfanning (to put it mildly).
>
> Are all railnuts male?
>
> -dheeraj
> --------------
> Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
> Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
> Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
> Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
> Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

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