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From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: [Fwd: Re: Indian Railway mag of June 1999

Date: 16 Aug 1999 10:09:34 -0500


Hello,
I am sending this message again because it came back to me with all my
typing in italics, as if it was a quoted message.
Please ignore it you have already received it.
Cheers.
Shankar

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Turntables for New Diesels ?

Date: 16 Aug 1999 10:19:12 -0500


Hello,
Indeed.
I remember having read in a railway encyclopaedia in the early 1980s
that GM had supplied some diesels to the Swedish State Railways.
Although the engines were based on an unidirectional design, a flat
nosed cab was provided at the other end.
It must have looked bizzare to see a train being hauled by a flat nosed
engine with the streamlined/nose end coupled INWARDS (facing the train),
but at least, it was a practical solution.
I think even the class 90 electrics of Britain, which power most of the
HST in electrified lines have one streamlined end. But they too have a
flat nosed cab at the other end. I have never seen a picture of one
hauling a train with the flat nose leading,but the cab is there alright.
I have seen a photo of a crippled class 90 photographed from the
flatnosed side.
I sometimes wonder, why does the whole world flock to GM and Alco with
their uncomfortable hood or unidirectional designs.Aren't there any
other diesel builders in the world?
Europe has some nice looking carbody diesels (Brush, Deltic) :OK make it
'had' in the case of the Deltics. So also France.
Don't they ever export these? I remember having seen a Brush with a
round headlight in place of the large number display awaiting export to
Zambia or something.
Cheers.
Shankar




Larry Russell wrote:
>
> GM just as easily could have made it dual cab. They certainly have
done
> it for other countries.
> Larry
>
> Jayant S wrote:
>
> > "VIRAF P.. MULLA" wrote:
> > > I forgot to add, that this is a
> > > > single cab power, which would necessitate turning facility at
> > > > the end of it's travel. I wonder if this supplement exists on
> > > > the internet edition of the TOI ?
> > > Does it mean that good old turntables are gonna make a comeback?
> >
> > Hmm, good question. I don't suppose turntables
> > would be reinstalled for this class of locos alone.
> > They will probably put up with long hood leading
> > running, or run them MUed back to back most of
> > the time.
> >
> > Actually, I find it curious that IR stays with
> > single-cabbed diesels, when they exclusively
> > run dual cab electrics. The new GM locos were
> > probably selected on the basis of their
> > performance. The only dual cab diesel I know
> > of is the one developed by BHEL, apparently
> > on the WDM2 base.
> >
> > --
> > JS
> > --

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: Info regarding Ayanavaram

Date: 16 Aug 1999 12:22:32 -0500


Hi Apurva and Gang,
Ayanavaram is located in North Chennai. We can't call
it a
suburb as it is very much inside city limits. Its on the way to ICF,
while
going from Chennai Central [by road i mean]. Though there is a siding
near
this place it is not on the rail map as it is quite close to ICF. Apurva

bhai can u tell me what was associated with Ayanavaram regarding that
company with the magazine was mentioning i can possibly provide some
more
info.

Kind regards,
Anand



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From: julian.rainbow <>

Subject: Re: Turntables for New Diesels ?

Date: 16 Aug 1999 12:41:45 -0500



Brush certainly exported its diesels to Zimbabwe and Sri Lanka (one is
prererved at Dematogoda Shed in Colombo). They sent some Tri-Bo
electrics to New Zealand in about 1985 for the electrification of the
North Island Main Trunk. They exported to other places as well, some
English Electric diesels were sent to Portugal, and early diesel exports
were 0-6-0s to Italy during the war and Holland shortly after.

Julian
> Hello,
>Indeed.
>I remember having read in a railway encyclopaedia in the early 1980s
>that GM had supplied some diesels to the Swedish State Railways.
>Although the engines were based on an unidirectional design, a flat
>nosed cab was provided at the other end.
>It must have looked bizzare to see a train being hauled by a flat nosed
>engine with the streamlined/nose end coupled INWARDS (facing the
train),
>but at least, it was a practical solution.
>I think even the class 90 electrics of Britain, which power most of the
>HST in electrified lines have one streamlined end. But they too have a
>flat nosed cab at the other end. I have never seen a picture of one
>hauling a train with the flat nose leading,but the cab is there
alright.
>I have seen a photo of a crippled class 90 photographed from the
>flatnosed side.
>I sometimes wonder, why does the whole world flock to GM and Alco with
>their uncomfortable hood or unidirectional designs.Aren't there any
>other diesel builders in the world?
>Europe has some nice looking carbody diesels (Brush, Deltic) :OK make
it
>'had' in the case of the Deltics. So also France.
>Don't they ever export these? I remember having seen a Brush with a
>round headlight in place of the large number display awaiting export to
>Zambia or something.
>Cheers.
>Shankar
>
>
>
>
>Larry Russell wrote:
>
> GM just as easily could have made it dual cab. They certainly have
done
> it for other countries.
> Larry
>
> Jayant S wrote:
>
> > "VIRAF P.. MULLA" wrote:
> > > I forgot to add, that this is a
> > > > single cab power, which would necessitate turning facility at
> > > > the end of it's travel. I wonder if this supplement exists on
> > > > the internet edition of the TOI ?
> > > Does it mean that good old turntables are gonna make a comeback?
> >
> > Hmm, good question. I don't suppose turntables
> > would be reinstalled for this class of locos alone.
> > They will probably put up with long hood leading
> > running, or run them MUed back to back most of
> > the time.
> >
> > Actually, I find it curious that IR stays with
> > single-cabbed diesels, when they exclusively
> > run dual cab electrics. The new GM locos were
> > probably selected on the basis of their
> > performance. The only dual cab diesel I know
> > of is the one developed by BHEL, apparently
> > on the WDM2 base.
> >
> > --
> > JS
> > --

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: Single-cabbed locos

Date: 16 Aug 1999 12:50:41 -0500


Hi all,


>freight powers in quantity with dual cabs. I remember someone telling
me
>that WAG
>5s are going to be the most common power on the IR. Today that position
is
>held by
>the venerable WAM 4.
Whoever said this , in my opinion is very correct. Almost 80% of
the
freight A/C power i see on my trips to Chennai are WAG5s and around 15%
are
WAG7s. Now passenger traffic also are being powered by WAGs often,
atleast
as far as SR/SCR are concerned. WAG5s have become an integral part of
A/C
traffic for IR. I get info that 65-70% of locos at LGD are WAG5s or
WAG7s.
Even ED shed have recently acquired a lot of WAGs from AJJ.

Kind regards,
Anand


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From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: a.c. unleashed!!! (revised)

Date: 16 Aug 1999 13:04:12 -0500


Hello,

I have changed the HTML on my ac electric page, and incorporated some of
the changes/corrections which some of you have pointed out/proposed.

Thanks for all the inputs. Constructive criticism is always welcome.

Check out the revised page at the following url and do revert if some
changes still need to be made.

<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/9896/unleashedrevised.htm">http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Coast/9896/unleashedrevised.htm</A>

Cheers.

Shankar.

PS: I have also made a minor change in the diesel fiesta HTML, wherein I
have changed the caption of the YDM/4 on the viaduct, to read as 'at
Aryankavu on the Quilon-Tenkasi line', thanks to inputs from John Lacey.
This is just for your info. Do check out that revised page as well. All
the thumbnails now work on the diesel page as well.

Cheers.

Shankar

From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Re: Turntables for New Diesels ?

Date: 16 Aug 1999 13:16:51 -0500


Hi.....

The Class 91 on the electric HSTs in UK do work blunt end forwards on
occasion although its not a regular feature. 91.031 was indeed flat
front
forward/streamlined end inwards when observed at 1600 today in York
(I was on a parallel train)

Iain

Aerolite Booktraders
Railway Book Specialists
<A HREF="http://www.aerolite.u-net.com">http://www.aerolite.u-net.com</A>

From: Julian Rainbow <>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Best Wishes on Indian Independence Day]

Date: 16 Aug 1999 14:50:32 -0500


Mike Satow died a few years ago, as far as i know RR Bhandari is still
alive

Julian
-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Cc: Wilson, Luther S. <ludia@owt.email
Date: 16 August 1999 13:24
Subject: [Fwd: Best Wishes on Indian Independence Day]


>Gang !
>
>Go through Luther's mail. Is there a CLW website ? Also how
>much of grain is carried on the IR and do we have a theorist
>or a historian on the IR (Mike Satow, RR Bhandari ?) ?
>I guess only metro cities are spending independently for urban
>rail transportation.
>Apurva

From: Royston Ellis <>

Subject: List

Date: 16 Aug 1999 18:23:18 -0500


Gang:
At the weekend I shall be asking our administrator to Unsubscribe me for
a
few weeks since I'll be travelling (mostly by plane and boat, no trains)
to
places where I won't have easy access to e-mail. (Sounds like heaven?).

Just like to say how much I have appreciated all the mails during the
last
few months, even the technical ones I didn't (at first) understand.
Sometimes I wonder if there are members who do nothing but mail the
others
about rail. Good stuff; and thanks.

Looking forward to re-subscribing again in October.

Royston

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Dual Cab Diesels

Date: 16 Aug 1999 20:18:22 -0500


"S.Shankar" wrote:
> I remember having read in a railway encyclopaedia in the early 1980s
> that GM had supplied some diesels to the Swedish State Railways.
> Although the engines were based on an unidirectional design, a flat
> nosed cab was provided at the other end.
Were these the NOHAB diesels ?
The only GM Carbody-type dual cab locos I know of were the
VR diesels in Australia (forgot what class: Dr Walker ?).
Kind of like a WCM1 without the pantos.......
> It must have looked bizzare to see a train being hauled by a flat
nosed
> engine with the streamlined/nose end coupled INWARDS (facing the
train),
> but at least, it was a practical solution.
I don't know about the WDM1 locos in India, but some Alco
DL500s running in Australia had a flat-fronted cab at the
other end. Some ran in Spain too, I think.
> I think even the class 90 electrics of Britain:
That is the Class 91, and reverse running is
done only at lower speeds.
> I sometimes wonder, why does the whole world flock to GM and Alco with
> their uncomfortable hood or unidirectional designs.Aren't there any
> other diesel builders in the world?
The Adtranz Blue Tiger is very much a dual cab design, and
can be located from their web page at:
<A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com">http://www.adtranz.com</A>
Quite a bizzare looking thing. I wonder what single
cab Adtranz was picked up by the Pakistan Railways, though.



--
JS
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Adtranz Loco for Pakistan

Date: 16 Aug 1999 20:23:59 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/adtranz/e/products/316/02blue/blue02.htm">http://www.adtranz.com/adtranz/e/products/316/02blue/blue02.htm</A>

Someone asked for a picture of the loco made by Adtranz for
Pakistan: here it is, on a low loader. I wonder if PR asked
for a single cab, as Adtranz can supply evidently dual cabs.
Funny that PR missed the point altogether.

IR must think seriously about dual cabs for all future
diesels. There would be at least one safety impication I
can think of: the practice of verbally confirming a signal
between driver and assistant would become less critical
regardless of running direction. Not to mention the
running advantages.

Does anyone know the driving layout for the GT46MACs ?


-JS-

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: TAG

Date: 16 Aug 1999 21:13:54 -0500


Dear Samit,
I share your feelings about the format of the new
AIATT. The A4 is a ridiculous scheme(except perhaps for the long
sighted)
and apart from making the typeset only marginally bigger it is no great
shakes. It is flimsy on the other hand making it inconvenient to carry
and
difficult to preserve.

Also it is too abstract. Many of the important trains are either missing
or
not properly listed out. It is probably because the large typeset can
accommodate only fewer rows.

The map is silly, it doesn't show any under conversion lines, double
lines
or electrification. It's printed well but so what? The four colour
scheme
for Rajdhani, Shatabdi, superfast and Vanilla category of trains has
very
confusing shades. The commercial info section is quite Ok but I can do
without the bunch of pages on tourism.
Central Railways have done a better job in the same format. However the
best
so far is WR in old format. NR new TT has a ridiculously small typeset.

But by the way, the All India Abstract TT is a job of professional
designers!!!

Harsh



>has anyone any comments on the new Trains at a Glance? the first
problem is
>that its never available. i finally got a copy and was a bit aghast.
though
>the producers have definitely had good intentions about the changed
format,
>they have surely botched it up.
>
>1. the size is cumbersome... the older one was easier to handle.
>2. the text is too big and bold... the older one was clearer.
>3. some of the info is superfluous.. especially about the tourist
sites.
>4. the map needed more details, but its a well printed one and thats a
plus.
>5. maybe a list of all the websites could have been mentioned to help
>passengers update.
>6. numerous other small design and detailing defects, too small and too
many
>to mention here.
> some of the info isnt uptodate. the 8001-2 howrah bombay mail now has
>ac-3tier but its not mentioned for one.
>
>on the whole i feel they could have retained the older size and manage
to
>have fitted all this in pretty easily.
>
>time they employed professional designers.
>
>

From: Tony Bailey <>

Subject: Re: Turntables for New Diesels ?

Date: 16 Aug 1999 21:31:02 -0500


In fact what is the likelihood of finding triangles for turning in
India?

QR Always seemed to prefer them to turntables even in steam days - and
used
to turn whole passenger trains because the seats and berths faced in one
direction (In fact they still do - right down to the brand new Tilt
Train!)


Tony Bailey
Mercury World Travel
Mercury Travel Books
mecuryworldtvl@one.email
-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. K.J. Walker <kjw_meh@powerup.email

.
> Do IR plan a back cab?
> Cheers
> Ken Walker
>

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: DLW news in the TOI

Date: 16 Aug 1999 21:40:31 -0500


>> I forgot to add, that this is a
>> single cab power, which would necessitate turning facility at
>> the end of it's travel. I wonder if this supplement exists on
>> the internet edition of the TOI ?
>
>
>Does it mean that good old turntables are gonna make a comeback?
>


I don't really see that happening. The WDG4s will be running to and fro
the
bigger termini which already have a provision of a triangle. In any case
I
have seen very few diesels being turned by TTs. Gonda which houses the
last
of WDM 1s has both a triangle and a defunct Turntable!

I also see a likelihood of these locos being put on trial at the KK line
for
a while. There they might have to put a TT at the Kirandul end. VSKP has
several Ts.

Harsh

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: INDIAN STEAM]

Date: 17 Aug 1999 00:48:38 -0500


> Re the Nilgiri line, perhaps you should mention, most importantly,
that
>the diseasels only work the adhesion section, from Coonoor to Ooty. The
rack
>section is still 100% steam, and that's the really scenic part too.
Stay at
>Coonoor, it's cheaper and better placed, and enjoy the rack section.


Very true indeed. Another point for steam is that diesels have failed in
the
rack section
and even a X class loco modified to oil firing had a tough time.

Steam has a future here indeed unless some jokers have their way in
putting
wires on this beautiful line and mar it forever.
Some YAM lovers may think that it will give a new lease of life to these
electrics but I foresee it as a mess which will lead to a permanent
closure
of the line.
Regards,

Harsh

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: DLW news in the TOI

Date: 17 Aug 1999 01:20:29 -0500


>
> I also see a likelihood of these locos being put on trial at the KK
line for
> a while. There they might have to put a TT at the Kirandul end. VSKP
has
> several Ts.

Isn't that line already electrified with all the stud goods electric
power
working there ? The home shed for the WDG 4 is Hubli for the Hospet -
Vasco
sector.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Adtranz Loco for Pakistan

Date: 17 Aug 1999 01:24:36 -0500


Great looking loco and a great looking colour scheme, much better
than WDG 4.

Jayant S wrote:

> <A HREF="http://www.adtranz.com/adtranz/e/products/316/02blue/blue02.htm">http://www.adtranz.com/adtranz/e/products/316/02blue/blue02.htm</A>
>
> Someone asked for a picture of the loco made by Adtranz for
> Pakistan: here it is, on a low loader. I wonder if PR asked
> for a single cab, as Adtranz can supply evidently dual cabs.
> Funny that PR missed the point altogether.
>
> IR must think seriously about dual cabs for all future
> diesels. There would be at least one safety impication I
> can think of: the practice of verbally confirming a signal
> between driver and assistant would become less critical
> regardless of running direction. Not to mention the
> running advantages.
>
> Does anyone know the driving layout for the GT46MACs ?
>
> -JS-

From: Marcelo Benoit <>

Subject: Re: Turntables for New Diesels ?

Date: 17 Aug 1999 02:03:17 -0500


Here our last diesels (ten C 18-7i, General Electric, 1993) have only
one
cab and, if there is an avaliable turntable, they are turned. The
problem
is that they have two controllers in the cab, but one isn´t used, and
it´s
really few space into cab by this.
Some photos of these GE´s and the previous generation (with two cabs) at
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/FCF.html">http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/FCF.html</A>

Marcelo

ESTACION CENTRAL TERMINAL DE TRENES
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/index-7.html">http://members.tripod.com/lfu1/index-7.html</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: favour

Date: 17 Aug 1999 02:15:39 -0500


Here it is:
<A HREF="http://www.gmemd.com/locomotives/intl/gt46mac/index.html">http://www.gmemd.com/locomotives/intl/gt46mac/index.html</A>

Anand Krishnan wrote:

> Hi all,
> Can anyone help me in finding a site that has a photo of a
WDG4.
> There was one mail afloat sometime back. I dont remember which site it
was.
>
> Kind regards,
> Anand
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: BBC News....vanishing trains

Date: 17 Aug 1999 02:17:51 -0500


<A HREF="http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_422000/422354.stm">http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk_politics/newsid_422000/422354.stm</A>

Looks like train parting is quite common on
Britain's rails.

How often does this happen on IR ?

-JS-

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