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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: WCM6 at mumbai

Date: 11 Aug 1999 23:19:13 -0500


>
>
> Yes it works the light freight trains towards Kalyan & Karjat. It has
> never gone beyond that (so I was informed). Never crossed the ghats.
Appu
> correct me if I am wrong.

Never crossed the ghats, it has to be close to it's mothershed at Kalyan
if it were to
prang ...

>
>
> Regards
> Viraf.
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> ==========================

From: prakash <>

Subject: Passing dead zone

Date: 12 Aug 1999 11:14:13 -0500




Rajan,

> Well, the passenger loads from Mumbai Central outwards all use WCAM 1
> or WCAM 2P and the change of traction made at Virar without change
> of engine or halt. Gang, this is quite fascinating since trains don't
> stop but move through while making the change ... Thus engines need
> not be changed.

Although it is fascinating indeed, one should remember that the process
is similar to the one followed in AC section when overhead wires change
phase. Except lowering pantograph, rest all the process, charging air
compressor, vaccum exhausters, cutting off motors and shutting off motor
generator, main CB, etc. remains exactly the same.

How often does this occur in AC section? Well, between Virar and Surat,
twice. And at least one more time between Surat and Baroda, if not
twice.

Prakash

From: julian.rainbow <>

Subject: South Indian narrow gauge

Date: 12 Aug 1999 17:25:33 -0500



Does any know waht liveries were carried on the following locos built
for the 2' 6" lines of the SIR and on their closure in about 1942 were
sent to Sierra Leone. Better still does nay one have a picture?
111 SLM 2313/13 2-8-0 oc
112 SLM 2314/13
113 SLM 2312/13
114 SLM 2738/20
115 SLM 2737/20
116 SLM 2739/20

The SLGR running numbers are quoted SIR Numbers were 111 - 116 were ex
South Indian Railway running numbers W2, W3, W1, W5, W4, W6, given WD
numbers 74005, 74006. 74007, 74008, 74009, 74010

Thanks

Julian

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: emu enigma

Date: 12 Aug 1999 19:35:59 -0500


>
> AFAIK the term 'double fast' has been evolved only in the last few
years, but it
> is not a commuter slang, the station announcers use this liberally.

Wrong Appu, I have been hearing "Double Fast" since my childhood and
has not evolved since the last few years.

The Super Fast Locals which I mentioned in one of my mails were also
known
as "Bada Fast".

Viraf

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: emu enigma

Date: 12 Aug 1999 19:41:53 -0500


> Dear Rajan,
>
> Finally someone who gave the CR side of the "double fast" issue.
During
> 1982-89 when I was in Bombay, only CR had double fast locals.

Correction. Western Railway had them too. Almost 95% of the Virar Locals
were Double Fast even in the 60's.

Viraf

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: Honcho from DLW ...

Date: 12 Aug 1999 22:23:10 -0500


Folks,

It's good to be back on Irfca. Some news about new developments at DLW
from
a head honcho. Will try to sign him up.

-Sridhar


>Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 22:24:26 -0400 (EDT)
>To: msshanka@gsbpop.email
>
>Dear Mr Shankar,
>
>It was quite a pleasant surprise to see a WDM2 fan on the web. I was
searching for ALCO on the web and came across your web pages on ALCO
locomotives.
>
>I am a Deputy Chief Mechanical Engineer in Diesel Lcomotive Works.
>
>You will be glad to know that we signed up with General Motors of USA
for
technology transfer of their state of the art Diesel Locos at DLW. The
first Locomotive of this design, a 4000 hp, AC/AC micoprocessor
controlled
and of very high tractive effort (adhesion > 42%) will roll out tomorrow
on
14th Aug. This was assembled from a Semi Knocked Down kit.
>
>Are you an ex-Indian Railway man? Our first indigenous GM design loco
will
roll out in December this year. It will be a pleasure to have you in DLW
on
this occassion.
>
>I must compliment for the excellent choice and quality of the WDM2
photographs on your web pages.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Shubhranshu
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Get your free email from AltaVista at <A HREF="http://altavista.iname.com">http://altavista.iname.com</A>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sridhar Shankar
Graduate School of Business
The University of Chicago
1616 E. 50th Place, Apt. 13A
Chicago, IL 60615
(773) 752 1131

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: ac unleashed!!!

Date: 12 Aug 1999 23:41:10 -0500


Hello all,
Apparently, I still do not know a lot about the IR. Thanks for all those
who wrote in to clarify the error in facts. I shall make corrections in
the HTML once this thread on factual errors is completed, and once all
the various corrections come in, so that I can take the essence from all
the correction messages.I have not deleted any of them.

In the meantime, do please enjoy the rest of the page, especially the
photographs.

Cheers.

Shankar.




Vijay Balasubramanian wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> Here is some information from a map in the Nov. 1972 issue
> showing the progress of railway electrification in IR
>
> Sections electrified as on March 31, 1972 are -
> Bombay-Igatpuri-Bhusaval
> Kalyan-Pune
> Bombay-Virar
> Howrah-Asansol-MGS-Tundla
> Howrah-Tatanagar-Durg
> bunch of lines around Calcutta
> (to Petrapol, Diamond Harbour, etc.)
> Asansol-Adra-Tatanagar
> bunch of lines for the SER collieries,
> as Jishnu mentioned (Raurkela-Bitrampur, Sini-Gua, etc.)
> Madras-Villupuram
>
> Fourth plan schemes in progress -
> Tundla-Delhi
> Virar-Sabarmati
> Madras-Vijayawada
> Waltair-Kirandul
> Panskura-Haldia
>
> Schemes proposed for 5th plan -
> Vadodara-Nagda
> Anand-Godhra
> Delhi-Itarsi
> Bhusaval-Durg
> Madras-Erode
> Jalarpet-Bangalore
> Arkonam-Guntakal-Hospet
>
> It is interesting to note that all the above sections
> except Arakkonam-Hospet have been electrified - a
> classic example of the step-motherly treatment
> given to the Mumbai-Chennai trunk line over the
> years.
>
> Vijay
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Jishnu Mukerji [SMTP:jis@fpk.email
> > Sent: Thursday, August 12, 1999 12:24 PM
> > To: ranand@us.email
> > Cc: shankie@emirates.email irfca@cs.email
> > Subject: Re: ac unleashed!!!
> >
> > ranand@us.email wrote:
> > >
> > > >From the web site:
> > >
> > > >The French SNCF introduced India to ac traction in 1959, with the
> > conversion of
> > > the 3000V dc Howrah-Burdwan (now
> > > >Bardhamman) section into ac. That was the first ac electrified
section
> > in the
> > > country. The route was later electrified
> > > >right upto Delhi in 1968, which made it the first fully
electrified
> > trunk line
> > > in India.
> > >
> > > This does not sound right to me. I lived in Delhi in the late
1970s and
> > I
> > > remember that electrification reached Delhi only
> > > around 1977. Can someone else confirm this?
> >
> > Yes 1977 is correct. 1968 was when eletrcification reached Allahabad
or
> > Kanpur from Mughal Sarai perhaps. Also wasn't it around 1968 that
the
> > last bits of doubling of the Howrah - Delhi truck route had just
been
> > completed? I seem to recall that in the early 60s there were bits
and
> > pieces of single line stretches between Tundla and Ghaziabad.
> >
> > And Yes, Howrah - New Delhi via New Yamuna Bridge was the first
truck
> > line to be fully eletrified. Actually, Sahibabad - Delhi Jn. and
Delhi
> > Jn. - New Delhi via Subzi Mandi triangle came under the wire a
little
> > after New Delhi.
> >
> > I also do not believe that Howrah - Burdwan was the first AC section
in
> > the country. It was converted later. The first AC section was
Asansol -
> > Gomoh - Gaya and then onto Mughal Sarai, and a bunch of lines off
> > towards SE Railway through the collieries (the collieries part I am
not
> > sure about, since I didn't travel those lines). There may have been
some
> > lines on SER that preceded Asansol - Gomoh - Gaya, but I don't know
the
> > exact relative sequence of AC electrification on ER and SER.
> > Electrification of Asansol - Burdwan was delayed because Burdwan -
> > Howrah was still DC. Actually Asansol - Andal Yard was electrified
way
> > before the rest of the way to Burdwan. There was a significant
period of
> > time in the late 50s/early 60s (don't remember exact dates) when
Asansol
> > was where AC electrification ended. Asansol - Burdwan was free of
wires.
> > Then HB Chord was unelectrified and HB Main Line was 3000V DC. I
saw
> > that entire electrification happen right before my eyes! Remember
that
> > the big push for AC electrification of the Grand Chord was to
support
> > denser goods traffic first, then followed by passenger traffic.
> >
> > I was a regular traveller (and an ardent railfan even way back
then:-))
> > on the Howrah - New Delhi route at least one round trip per year
> > sometimes two, usually on 81up/82dn Airconditioned Express, which
used
> > to have this neat Airconditioned Restaurant Car those days! AC
Express
> > continued to be steam hauled until way after MGS - HWH was fully
> > electrified. In the early days of AC electrification, there were
several
> > trains on this route that were Steam hauled (and later Diesel
hauled)
> > from Howrah to Asansol, and then they got Electric from Asansol -
> > typically a WAM1 or WAM2.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jishnu.

From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: emu enigma

Date: 13 Aug 1999 12:23:19 -0500




Viraf is right. I know of "Bada Fast", BVI-BA-MEL since mid 50s. In
fact, in early 60s, a 3 coach MAN EMU operated on Saturday afternoon
as Virar local. It ran fast between Merine Lines and Dahisar, a triple
fast train.

Prakash


"VIRAF P.. MULLA " <sncf@godrej.email on 08/12/99 07:41:53 PM

To: "raymond/Polaris"@polaris.email
cc: Rajan Mathew <rajanmathew@telebot.email irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: emu enigma





> Dear Rajan,
>
> Finally someone who gave the CR side of the "double fast" issue.
During
> 1982-89 when I was in Bombay, only CR had double fast locals.

Correction. Western Railway had them too. Almost 95% of the Virar Locals
were Double Fast even in the 60's.

Viraf

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Sabotage at Gaisal ?

Date: 13 Aug 1999 20:08:11 -0500


<A HREF="http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/aug/13rail.htm">http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/aug/13rail.htm</A>

NFR authorities are speculating on the possibility
of terrorist action leading to the Gaisal accident.

According to this article, the Avadh-Assam Exp stopped
for 11 minutes at the Panjipara outer signal, something
that has not been mentioned before. It then "entered
the Panjipara station without the mandatory reception
signal."

Any ideas, anyone ?

--
JS
--

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: DLW dedicates first WDG4 to the nation today .....

Date: 13 Aug 1999 21:02:57 -0500


Gang .... DLW dedicates first WDG4 to the nation today.
Times of India - Mumbai Edition - has come out with a two page feature on the same with 5-6 articles of interest.
 
Check it out ... more details later
Rajan

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Bomb destroys bridge in Assam, misses train

Date: 13 Aug 1999 21:42:59 -0500


dear Richard,

>Re security on an enormous railway network
>
>As a former military person, I must clarify to all that a really
determined
>terrorist will always find a weak point, unless you saturate the entire
>objective with guards and electronic devices - and even then guards
fall
>asleep or go to the toilet, and wires can be cut.


Since you have yourself called them `terrorists', I think there is no
justification in calling them to negotiating table(although it has been
done
without success in innumerable examples in the past). For then everyone
will
see this as a shortcut to instant success in local politics.

Bomb the trains, blow the bridges and you get an impromptu appointment
at
New Delhi!

>Terrorism is best dealt with by removing its causes, not by increasing
the
>numbers of security guards, which is an extremely expensive option.

The causes are not here in India. They are at Islamabad, Beijing, Kabul,
Colombo, Washington DC, Moscow, London, Paris etc.

Harsh

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Window bars(was :Re: Stupid question about IR).

Date: 13 Aug 1999 22:24:34 -0500


Dear Raymond,
I have seen many I class, Sleeper and
General
II class coaches which had no bars in the middle window! I thought it
was
extremely intelligent design for an `integral' coach. But I have not
seen
any in which the bars slide as you mention.

>Harsh, we have been talking for sometime about how IRFCA can contribute
to
>improving IR facilities, safety etc. Can we put together concrete steps
in
>this direction. I for one am willing to contribute whatever time and
>resources I have at my disposal. I am sure most of us on this list (in
>India) feel likewise. All of us love IR too much to just sit on the
>sidelines and allow all and sundry to rubbish all the good work that IR
>employees are doing. I think you need to point us in the right
direction.

As for recommendations/suggestions, I have already said that I can make
it
in a presentable form and give this to the CCRS or any other whom it
might
concern. But someone else will have to do the compilation of the notes
and
send these to me. My problem is that I work on a small mailbox of 2 Mb.
My
primitive laptop has a hard disk which always seems to be running out of
space. so I can't afford to keep a backup of IRFCA mails.
Let's all work on it together. Somehow.........

Harsh

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: INDIAN STEAM]

Date: 13 Aug 1999 22:36:59 -0500


Dear Shankar,

-THE DARJEELING HIMALAYAN LINE BETWEEN NEW JALPAIGURI AND DARJEELING IN
WEST BENGAL.(nARROW GAUGE). hOWEVER, YOU WILL NEED A SPECIAL PERMIT TO
VISIT DARJEELING, AND THE TRAIN DOES NOT ALWAYS RUN.


You don't need any permit to visit Darjeeling nowadays. Please don't
discourage potential visitors.

-THE NILGIRI MOUNTAIN LINE IN SOUTHERN INDIA (METER GAUGE: RACK AND
PINION). hOWEVER, THE LINE IS DIESEL WORKED IN MOST PARTS, STEAM TAKING
OVER ONLY IN THE RACK SECTIONS.


The diesel operation is only in a section of 28 Km out of a total of 46
but
that that should not keep you from visiting there.


Harsh

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: [Fwd: Castle Rock ghat]

Date: 13 Aug 1999 22:48:07 -0500


I have travelled on this section first in '78 when both locos were steam
and
repeated the thrill in '83 again.
YD was an excellent loco. And its shrill unique whistle that would echo
in
the ghats and the beaches of Goa could make anybody's day.

Harsh

-----Original Message-----
From: raymond/Polaris@POLARIS.email <raymond/Polaris@POLARIS.email
To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, August 13, 1999 1:52 AM
Subject: Re: [Fwd: Castle Rock ghat]


>
>Dear gang,
>
>I spent 7 years in Goa, three of them at Sanvordem, the next largish
>station after Collem (Kulem).Great trip up the ghats.Those days we used
to
>have a steam loco (YD?) banking up the ghats, while main power was
YDM4.
>Good trips were on the VSG-SBC mails or the Mandovi Express, being
daytime
>trains. Dudhsagar in the monsoons was good when the spray would engulf
the
>train. And yes, checking at Castle Rock was really stringent. Once
coming
>back from Bangalore, we spend two hours at Castle Rock because they had
to
>detach a couple of coaches that were defective on the vacuum.
>
>Any more memories, anybody ?
>
>Regards
>
>Raymond
>
>
>

From: shubh <>

Subject: Please enroll me

Date: 13 Aug 1999 23:22:27 -0500


Dear Sir/Ma'am

How do I become a member of the IRFCA?

Shubhranshu
Dy Chief Mechanical Engineer
Diesel Locomotive Works,
Varanasi - 221004
INDIA

----------------------------------------------------------------
Get your free email from AltaVista at <A HREF="http://altavista.iname.com">http://altavista.iname.com</A>

From: HVC <>

Subject: Re: Sabotage at Gaisal ?

Date: 13 Aug 1999 23:48:07 -0500


><A HREF="http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/aug/13rail.htm">http://www.rediff.com/news/1999/aug/13rail.htm</A>
>
>NFR authorities are speculating on the possibility
>of terrorist action leading to the Gaisal accident.
>
>According to this article, the Avadh-Assam Exp stopped
>for 11 minutes at the Panjipara outer signal, something
>that has not been mentioned before. It then "entered
>the Panjipara station without the mandatory reception
>signal."
>
>Any ideas, anyone ?
>


Its nothing but a load of balderdash. A figment of the reporter's
imaginations as most of the other reports on rediff.com are. Pointing
fingers at others for your own blunders and disorderly house.

If the train had indeed stopped at Panjipara for 11 minutes, it would
have
surfaced on the first day itself and not ten days after the accident.

Even if one is to believe that the 13 railwaymen were under some kind of
threat to engineer the collision, what about the crew of AA Exp. Were
they
some kind of ISI agents on a suicidal mission?!!

It appears like a cover up job for the railway biggies is underway. And
finally the 13 railwaymen + 2 dead crew members will be prosecuted in
the
garb of an enquiry.

"Jane bhi do yaaron"

Harsh

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Sabotage at Gaisal ?

Date: 13 Aug 1999 23:48:22 -0500


HVC wrote:

> Its nothing but a load of balderdash. A figment of the reporter's
> imagination........
That's what I thought too, and perhaps we should write to
Rediff accordingly.

> If the train had indeed stopped at Panjipara for 11 minutes, it would
have
> surfaced on the first day itself and not ten days after the accident.
I wonder where the UNI reporter picked that one up though. More likely
to be some sort of local rumour than a reporter's creation.

> Even if one is to believe that the 13 railwaymen were under some kind
of
> threat to engineer the collision, what about the crew of AA Exp. Were
they
> some kind of ISI agents on a suicidal mission?!!
I've heard speculations that the drivers were dead or incapacitated,
which of course makes the alleged Panjipara stopover kind of
supernatural.
Not one of these sabotage theories is, so far, consistent.

> It appears like a cover up job for the railway biggies is underway.
And
> finally the 13 railwaymen + 2 dead crew members will be prosecuted in
the
> garb of an enquiry.
It is still strange how 13 railwaymen + 2 dead crew members added up
to a colossal compound error, though. I don't think much of sabotage,
but prosecution of these people as a whitewashing job will probably
prevent the truth from ever being determined. Sad.

I hope IR employees are not becoming as callous as Indian automobile
drivers. Our road drivers keep jumping signals at will and generally
exhibit lunatic behaviour which could lead to ghastly results if
they were railway personnel.

--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: DLW news in the TOI

Date: 14 Aug 1999 00:04:18 -0500


Gang !

Today's Times of India has a special feature on the DLW. This
traces the history and achievements of our premier diesel loco
builders. The new WDG 4 (GT 46 MAC) is also being dedicated to
the nation today (14th Aug ? Our dear neighbour, Pak's
independence day ?). Apart from GT 46 MAC there is also GT 46
PAC (passenger version) which is on the CKD assembly line. I
wonder which trains could require a 4000 HP microprocessor
based AC/AC diesel loco which can stay away from its parent
shed for 90 days at a stretch. I forgot to add, that this is a
single cab power, which would necessitate turning facility at
the end of it's travel. I wonder if this supplement exists on
the internet edition of the TOI ?

Apurva

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: ISI theory.

Date: 14 Aug 1999 01:48:59 -0500



I read in the newspaper a statement by wife of AA's driver that
he was very disturbed for last several days/weeks. He needed
some money . (I forget why but I think it might have been for
children's education or marriage.) But he also seemed to have
told his wife that soon their problems are getting over since
he was going to get 15 lakh rupees. She never asked where that
money is going to come from.

This statement is being taken as "proof" of ISI's involvement.

I find it ridiculous. As someone else said on this list it
is totally unbelievable that ISI (or whoever) would have
bought or put under tremendous pressure such a large number
of railway employees to engineer this accident.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: ISI theory.

Date: 14 Aug 1999 02:05:46 -0500


Dheeraj Sanghi wrote:

> I find it ridiculous. As someone else said on this list it
> is totally unbelievable that ISI (or whoever) would have
> bought or put under tremendous pressure such a large number
> of railway employees to engineer this accident.

Another reason it does not make sense is that even
after compromising some employees, an accident is not
certain, and no terrorist agency can hope that so many
people can keep a secret.

If a terrorist group wants to damage a train, a bomb
is still the most effective means. Why go to all that
trouble to disguise an attack as an accident ?

--
JS
--

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