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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Trivandrum Rajdhani via KR

Date: 21 Jul 1999 10:09:08 -0500




>For the Konkan railway timings you can visit my site which I relaunched
>recently at a new location
>Konkan Railway Resource Page
><A HREF="http://members.rediff.co./skiposeidon">http://members.rediff.co./skiposeidon</A>
^^^
com

Nice to have the site up again! You may want to update your links
inside
the KR timetable home page to point to the new pages. Also, how about
adding the halt times at Kota for the TVC Raj. now that it has been
upgraded
to a passenger halt?

What is the deal with this new Mumbai-Madgaon day train? Has this
already
been introduced? If so, why not add its schedule as well?

Vijay


>Infact either way - Kankanadi to Panvel or vice versa - you complete
the
>entire KR stretch by day on the Rajdhani
>
>Regards - Rajan
>
>From: Royston Ellis <royston@pan.email
>
> > Gang,
> >
> > I see from the e-mail from Poras that the Rajdhani from Trivandrum
to
>Delhi
> > now goes via the KR. I've missed all this and don't have any current
> > timetables. Could someone let me have details of days/itinerary. It
>sounds
> > a great journey.
> >
>
>


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From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: MUMBAI - PUNE SINGHAD EXPRESS and GT EXPRESS

Date: 21 Jul 1999 10:25:54 -0500


Since around September 1995, the double decker coaches of the Sinhagad
express were replaced by single decker coaches. The train now runs with
17
coaches.

Infact that was the time (Suresh Kalmadi was railway minister) that
Mumbai -
Pune trains all went in for the same look ... white and blue with a red
band
above the window.

Apurva wrote
The 1009 consisted of 10 coach load when it was a double decker, and now
that it consist of normal day coaches it must be about 14 coaches (not
sure).

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Long electric hauls on the IR

Date: 21 Jul 1999 11:20:02 -0500


Sometime back there was a thread of discussions on the
longest continuous diesel-hauled run for any train on IR.
This prompted me to think about long electric-hauled runs.
At present, the longest one seems to be New Delhi to Erode
(via Jhansi-Nagpur-Vijayawada-Gudur-Renigunta-Katpadi)
a distance of about 2570 km. Three trains qualify for it -
Himsagar Exp. - Delhi to Erode
Navyug Exp. - New Delhi to Erode
Kerala Exp. - New Delhi to Erode
The Nizamuddin-Ernakulam Exp. comes
a close second - 2565
Of course, I am assuming that Erode is still the loco.
changeover point. Has this recently been shifted to
Coimbatore or Palghat?

No other run comes anywhere close in length.
The next one seems to be - Delhi-Nagpur-Chennai
by TN/GT/Andaman Exps. - about 2190 km.
(Chennai Rajdhani - 2185)

followed by Delhi-Nagpur-Vijayawada-Visakhapatnam - 2110
- Swarnajayanti Exp.

Other long electric-hauled runs -
Mumbai-Nagpur-Howrah - 1960
- Gitanjali/Mail (superdeluxe is about 15 km. shorter)

Dadar-Itarsi-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1840
- Dadar-Amritsar Exp.

Nizamuddin-Jhansi-Bina-Katni-Bilaspur-Kharagpur - 1750 km
- Kalinga-Utkal Exp.

Howrah-MGS-Delhi-Ambala - 1640
- Howrah-Kalka Mail

Mumbai-Vadodara-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1600
- Swaraj/Paschim Exps.

Manmad-Jhansi-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1590
- Jhelum Exp. (assuming the loco. changes
happens at Manmad)


It would be interesting to find out the longest run with the same
electric loco.
Could this be Delhi-Nagpur-Erode again? When I last traveled on the TVC
Rajdhani
(used to be via Chennai at that time) the same loco. hauled it from NZM
to Chennai.
In fact, at Chennai Central, the loco. got hurriedly detached from the
rake and
reversed directions to head towards the other end - this prompted me to
conclude that
the same loco. was used again.

With subsequent electrification of new sections, new routes 'n' trains
may come into
play such Howrah-VSKP-Chennai-Erode-........,
Delhi-MGS-Gomoh-Hwh/Tata-Khurda Rd.,
Delhi-MGS-Patna-Howrah, etc. Since electrification will be extended to
TVC and Jammu Tawi,
the longest possible electric-hauled run would be Jammu
Tawi-Delhi-Nagpur-TVC provided they
introduce a new train on this route or reroute the Himsagar Exp. via
Delhi-Panipat-Ludhiana.


Vijay

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Preventable accidents?

Date: 21 Jul 1999 22:44:07 -0500



>Indeed the microwave network of IR is an asset which was noted even by
CIA
in
>its report to the US Congress many years ago! I have one more thought.
Can
>we get IRFCA represent the consumer interest in IR Safety Committee at
>national level? IRFCA, as a body which possesses expertise and
utilizes
the
>railroad and has no ax own to grind, belongs on it. Please don't tell
me
>that there is no such committee.


This surely needs to be seriously taken up to the highest rungs. Indeed
there is a Commissioner of Railway safety who is an autonomous body and
looks into the safety aspects of railway operations. It is he who
normally
heads an enquiry after an accident as well. The inquiry committee is
quite
unpartial but the onus of following up its recommendations is on the
railways.

From my side I volunteer to submit the IRFCA reports to the CRS and
follow
up with him. We can give our suggestions in the aftermath of an
accident as
well as other general recommendations.
Can we have someone on-board who can compile these. Let's make a
beginning
from the GT accident.

Harsh

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Matsya gandha express (Empty)

Date: 21 Jul 1999 23:09:22 -0500


Hi!


> > Wonder how economical the running of an empty train is ? IR after
all!!!


Any one from group can throw light on the consumption of diesel, ie, how
many kms loco can go in a litre or for a km how much diesel is consumed?
Just like we get the average for motor cars.

These days many KR trains are running below capacity, Madgaon -Mumbai
intercity exp, Matsyagandha Exp, Diva-Sawantwadi exp, Netravathi Exp. as
the summer rush is over.

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Need info from timetables

Date: 22 Jul 1999 00:17:55 -0500



>CR
>- Does the 2065/2066 Ratnagiri Exp. halt at Nasik Rd. and Bhusaval?
>When does the 2066 Exp. reach Bhusaval?


What train is this please. It is not clear.

>- What is the schedule for the biweekly Kurla-Patna superfast exp.
>(2xxx)? What are its halts?

2141 - Tu,Su
2142 - Tu, Thu

from Kurla side it has no scheduled stoppage till Jabalpur. TAAG is not
handy at the moment for further halts.

>- Does the superdeluxe exp. continue to halt at Akola, Badnera and
>Chakradharpur?
>

Akaola, Badnera -yes


Harsh

From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Re: Matsya gandha express (Empty)

Date: 22 Jul 1999 00:20:08 -0500




Dear Shrinivas,

I remember back in the late 70's, the GT used to be hauled by a single
WDM 2,
with 16 coaches. They used to load on 4500 litres of HSD at Madras
Central for
the run to Vijayawada, 421 kms. away. The full tank capacity is around
5600
litres. The consumption used to vary between 3600 and 400 litres of HSD
for this
run.

The WDM 2 is still the workhorse of the Indian diesels. So you can
safely say 9
and 10 litres per km. Again going by litres per hour, the MAS - BZA run
has
basically always been a 6.50 hours during which the engine is at near
full
throttle. This comes to around 550 litres per hour, which is really
inefficient
when you consider that the WDM 2 is a 2400 HP engine, V-16 cylinders.
The latest
Caterpilar engines would consume something like 400 litres per hour.

Raymond Arogyaswamy

From: Joydeep Dutta <>

Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR

Date: 22 Jul 1999 01:29:06 -0500


The 2311 up Howrah Kalka mail is hauled by a NR/GZB based WAM4/WAP1/WAP4

between Howrah and Delhi Junction with WDM2 haulage to Kalka

Purushottam Express (BBS-NDLS) is electrically hauled from KGP to NDLS.
Big
distance via GMO(Eastern Railway)

TN and GT are usually hauled by JHS based WAP4.
2841 Coromadal Express is hauled by BZA / WAM4 from VSKP to MAS

HWH - NDLS 2301/2302 Rajdhani Express --- WAP5 hauled from HWH to NDLS

My next message will on famous electric short and medium hauls

joydeep
( the dieselnut)


>From: Vijay Balasubramanian <VBalasubramanian@Softrax.email
>To: "'irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
>CC: "'pushkar_apte@hotmail.email <pushkar_apte@hotmail.email
>Subject: Long electric hauls on the IR
>Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 14:20:02 -0400
>
>Sometime back there was a thread of discussions on the
>longest continuous diesel-hauled run for any train on IR.
>This prompted me to think about long electric-hauled runs.
>At present, the longest one seems to be New Delhi to Erode
>(via Jhansi-Nagpur-Vijayawada-Gudur-Renigunta-Katpadi)
>a distance of about 2570 km. Three trains qualify for it -
>Himsagar Exp. - Delhi to Erode
>Navyug Exp. - New Delhi to Erode
>Kerala Exp. - New Delhi to Erode
>The Nizamuddin-Ernakulam Exp. comes
> a close second - 2565
>Of course, I am assuming that Erode is still the loco.
>changeover point. Has this recently been shifted to
>Coimbatore or Palghat?
>
>No other run comes anywhere close in length.
>The next one seems to be - Delhi-Nagpur-Chennai
>by TN/GT/Andaman Exps. - about 2190 km.
>(Chennai Rajdhani - 2185)
>
>followed by Delhi-Nagpur-Vijayawada-Visakhapatnam - 2110
> - Swarnajayanti Exp.
>
>Other long electric-hauled runs -
>Mumbai-Nagpur-Howrah - 1960
> - Gitanjali/Mail (superdeluxe is about 15 km. shorter)
>
>Dadar-Itarsi-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1840
> - Dadar-Amritsar Exp.
>
>Nizamuddin-Jhansi-Bina-Katni-Bilaspur-Kharagpur - 1750 km
> - Kalinga-Utkal Exp.
>
>Howrah-MGS-Delhi-Ambala - 1640
> - Howrah-Kalka Mail
>
>Mumbai-Vadodara-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1600
> - Swaraj/Paschim Exps.
>
>Manmad-Jhansi-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1590
> - Jhelum Exp. (assuming the loco. changes
> happens at Manmad)
>
>
>It would be interesting to find out the longest run with the same
>electric loco.
>Could this be Delhi-Nagpur-Erode again? When I last traveled on the
TVC
>Rajdhani
>(used to be via Chennai at that time) the same loco. hauled it from NZM
>to Chennai.
>In fact, at Chennai Central, the loco. got hurriedly detached from the
>rake and
>reversed directions to head towards the other end - this prompted me to
>conclude that
>the same loco. was used again.
>
>With subsequent electrification of new sections, new routes 'n' trains
>may come into
>play such Howrah-VSKP-Chennai-Erode-........,
>Delhi-MGS-Gomoh-Hwh/Tata-Khurda Rd.,
>Delhi-MGS-Patna-Howrah, etc. Since electrification will be extended
to
>TVC and Jammu Tawi,
>the longest possible electric-hauled run would be Jammu
>Tawi-Delhi-Nagpur-TVC provided they
>introduce a new train on this route or reroute the Himsagar Exp. via
>Delhi-Panipat-Ludhiana.
>
>
>Vijay


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From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR

Date: 22 Jul 1999 02:19:23 -0500


Hi all,
Great initiation Vijay . Its a very interesting topic.

>Of course, I am assuming that Erode is still the loco.
>changeover point. Has this recently been shifted to
>Coimbatore or Palghat?
Talks that the electrification till EKM will be commissioned by
December prompts me to infer that Kerala/NZM-EKM/HimSagar expresses will

easily be the trains to have a longest electric haul.

>by TN/GT/Andaman Exps. - about 2190 km.
>(Chennai Rajdhani - 2185)
I am hearing this Andaman exp. for the first time. Which train
has
been renamed like this ?

>It would be interesting to find out the longest run with the same
>electric loco.
Few Howrah/Hyd bound trains from the south that do not touch
Chennai
like Cochin-hyd have A/C locos from Erode till BZA. But those which
touch
Chennai have a changeover. Maybe that distance would be around 1000k.m
or a
little lesser. Infact Cochin-Hyd travels only till Guntur but with the
same
BZA WAM4. Most trains towards CBE-EKM now have A/C power till Palghat.
WAP1s
for Kovai/Cheran/CBE-Shatabdi are a regular feature. Its been done in a
phased manner. May be they are guaging the load on that sector. Regular
travellers on that route tell me that not everytime their train was
hauled
by A/C power till palghat. Last time when i travelled in that route it
was a
GOC WDM2A after Erode, but in the return direction it was a AJJ WAM4
from
Palghat. It has been very selective. But goods traffic is hauled by A/Cs

till palghat on a regular basis. Now that Erode has a A/C loco shed that
is
functional i guess the extension will be total soon i hope.
I am sure this topic will result a lot of interesting mails.

ind regards,
Anand


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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR

Date: 22 Jul 1999 02:20:56 -0500


> Other long electric-hauled runs -
> Mumbai-Nagpur-Howrah - 1960
> - Gitanjali/Mail (superdeluxe is about 15 km. shorter)
>
> Dadar-Itarsi-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1840
> - Dadar-Amritsar Exp.

The longest diesel haul thread was about using the *same* loco
throughout
the trip. Electric locos have much lesser problems of fatigue or regular
maintenance. In a WDM 2 the power must return to the parent shed after
about
3000 Kms, I am sure in an electric loco this period is much longer.

I would think that for Getanjali/ Mail or 57 Dn. the loco trip mileage
should really start after Igatpuri or Bhusawal as you have recently
speculated when the AC powers take over.

> Manmad-Jhansi-Delhi-Ludhiana - 1590
> - Jhelum Exp. (assuming the loco. changes
> happens at Manmad)

All trains from Pune towards north or east (Jhelum/ Goa/Maharashtra/Azad
Hind etc) via Manmad get their AC powers at Manmad itself. The only
exception to this is the Pune - Varanasi Gyan Ganga Exp whose Pune WDM 2
works the rake all the way to BSB and back.

> In fact, at Chennai Central, the loco. got hurriedly detached from the
> rake and
> reversed directions to head towards the other end - this prompted me
to
> conclude that
> the same loco. was used again.

I saw exactly the opposite, the Gaziabad WAP 1 hauled in the TVC
Rajdhani
and a Arkonnam WAM 4 P hauled it out from the other end towards TVC. I
was
impressed by the precision of the operation, the AJJ power was standing
on a
loop line waiting for the Rajdhani to be hauled in and the WAM 4 was
attached within minutes of the rake coming to a standstill. The GZB
power
stood on the platform even after the train had departed.

BTW Vijay, which was your candidate for the longest diesel hauled run ?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Long electric hauls on the IR

Date: 22 Jul 1999 02:22:27 -0500




>
> Talks that the electrification till EKM will be commissioned by
> December prompts me to infer that Kerala/NZM-EKM/HimSagar expresses
will
> easily be the trains to have a longest electric haul.

Is Ernakulum EKM or is it ERS ?

Apurva

From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Long Diesel Hauls

Date: 22 Jul 1999 03:35:02 -0500




Hi gang,

Some of you wanted to know where I log in from. It's Chennai or MAS as
we all
know it. I'm still a diesel man, unlike the steam and electric
fraternity, very
much in evidence now. I'm sure in about 10 years from now, diesel will
just be
working branch lines, just like steam right now.

Onto long hauls. It has to be along the norther fronter (of the country,
not the
railway of the same name). Maybe Himgiri from JAT to Asansol, or maybe
the
Brahmaputra Mail from Tinsukia to MGS. Check out the Avadh Assam (what a
poor
replacement for the old AT Mail) from Delhi to Guwahati (does it get any
electric hauling at all).

Maybe one of you can tell me the longest all diesel hauled train
(terminus to
Terminus).

Raymond Arogyaswamy

From: Samit Roychoudhury <>

Subject: Fw: Matsya gandha express (Empty)

Date: 22 Jul 1999 05:29:27 -0500


> Any one from group can throw light on the consumption of diesel, ie,
how
> many kms loco can go in a litre or for a km how much diesel is
consumed?
> Just like we get the average for motor cars.
>
i believe the MG diesels (such as YDM4) give about a kilometer for two
litres of diesel. this was once told to me by a driver himself but i am
not
sure how authentic it is.

samit

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Long Diesel Hauls

Date: 22 Jul 1999 05:56:18 -0500




raymond/Polaris@polaris.email wrote:

> Hi gang,
>
> Some of you wanted to know where I log in from. It's Chennai or MAS as
we all
> know it.

This info is important as the tentacles of IRFCA spread further. It
helps to know
how far we have reached. MAS also has the extreme railfan Anand Krishnan
and we also
had T.S. Krishna who sadly expired a few months back.

> I'm still a diesel man, unlike the steam and electric fraternity, very
> much in evidence now. I'm sure in about 10 years from now, diesel will
just be
> working branch lines, just like steam right now.

I have always felt this way. We are actually only 30 - 40 years before
witnessing
the end of diesels on most of the tracks.

>
> Maybe one of you can tell me the longest all diesel hauled train
(terminus to
> Terminus).

The Mumbai - Guwahati express was voted as the longest diesel haul of
them all from
Itarsi to GHY using the same ET shed WDM 2.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re:Fw: Matsya gandha express (Empty)

Date: 22 Jul 1999 06:04:34 -0500


>
> i believe the MG diesels (such as YDM4) give about a kilometer for
two
> litres of diesel. this was once told to me by a driver himself but i
am not
> sure how authentic it is.

Even I have heard stories of frugal consumption by the YDM 4. The driver
in
question had worked a freight from Arsikere to Ranibennur and returned
light to
Arsikere. Then he told me that the average consumption was only 1 liter
per KM
fully loaded. Now that is better than many cars !

>
>
> samit

From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: YDM4 vs. WDM 2

Date: 22 Jul 1999 06:41:46 -0500




Dear gang,

The YDM 4 (if I remember) is only 800 HP versus 2400 HP (Apurva says
2600 HP,
and I believe him) of the WDM 2. It could also be more fuel efficient
because it
is of more recent vintage, and therefore better technology. The first
WDM 1's
came in around 1964 or so.

The Southern Express (now Dakshin Express) from MAS - NDLS and the
Madras -
Howrah mail were the first to be dieselised in the south (maybe circa
1966). Any
news on where these WDM 1's are. I saw one of them hauling the East
Coast
Express around Anakapalle about 5 years back.

Also does anybody know what happened to the WDM 4's. Their major claim
to fame
was that they used to haul the NDLS - HWH Rajdhani before the electrics
eased
them out. I used to see them on the MGS - BSB - LKO routes hauling the
Amritsar
Mail and trains of the ilk.

I am yet to see a WDM 3. What are those, and where are those ? Any
ideas.

Raymond Arogyaswamy

From: Sunil Bajpai <>

Subject: Re: Matsya gandha express (Empty)

Date: 22 Jul 1999 06:49:49 -0500


For many reasons, such as the train load, which may vary from nothing to
a
several thousand tonnes, the kms/litre doesn't convey anything about the
efficiency of the locomotive!

One can use litre/1000 GTKM, that is litres of fuel per thousand
gross-tonnes-kms but the best way to measure the engine efficiency is in
terms of gms/bhp-hr, i.e. grams of fuel per brake-horsepower. If you are
interested, the newer fuel-efficient locomotives from DLW achieve about
154
gms/bhp-hr.

Sunil Bajpai
Dy CME (Diesel)
Charbagh Locomotive Works, NR

-----Original Message-----
From: Samit Roychoudhury <samr@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: 22 July 1999 18:20
Subject: Fw: Matsya gandha express (Empty)


>> Any one from group can throw light on the consumption of diesel, ie,
how
>> many kms loco can go in a litre or for a km how much diesel is
consumed?
>> Just like we get the average for motor cars.
>>
> i believe the MG diesels (such as YDM4) give about a kilometer for two
>litres of diesel. this was once told to me by a driver himself but i am
not
>sure how authentic it is.
>
>samit
>
>

From: raymond/Polaris <>

Subject: Diesel Consumption

Date: 22 Jul 1999 07:52:19 -0500




Dear Sunil,

The latest series of engines (take Caterpilar or Detroit Diesel) would
give you
something like 175 gms per KwHr, which should be in the region of 130
gms per
BHP hr. But then, the ALCO's also vary rpm along with the load, whereas
other
engines run at constant rpm irrespective of load. They also use PMG
exciters,
2/3 pole pitch to take care of block loading, which is what happens when
you put
the loco onto the first notch, and then accelerate.

But, then your comments on the above.

Raymond Arogyaswamy

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: Accident..

Date: 22 Jul 1999 08:34:28 -0500


For at least 50 - 60 years coloured flares ( red, usually ) have been
standard practice in the USA and many Latin American lines ( where they
tend
to have a theft problem around New Year's ).

They burn for about 20 minutes. They have a simple self igniting device,
so
they can be used without getting out of the cab or brakevan, a great and

sometime crucial timesaver.

Rocket flares sound dangerous, also they don't burn for very long - used
a
lot of these in the Army, never seen one on any railway.

Regards

Richard Yudin

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Fw: AWE (was Re: GM vs Alco)

Date: 22 Jul 1999 08:50:24 -0500


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