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From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Horn on a stationary and moving locomotive

Date: 02 Jul 1999 19:09:10 -0500


> BTW Peshwe park (the main zoo in Pune) has a cruel little toy train
(Fulrani -
> Queen of Flowers) which runs loudly over the animals cages. This is
the only
> place I wish a train would NOT run. Fulrani takes children and adults
as well (?)
> on a small spin of the zoo. I have done this all my childhood, and
maybe my love
> for railways started there, but today I have a strong love for animals
too.

Hi All,
I Fully agree with you Appu, it is indeed very cruel to run a toy train
over the cages. I think SPCA & other wildlife authorities should take an
objection.

As a kid I remember "Shambhaji Park" at Deccan Gymkhana too had a model
railway - though I had never seen it running. Is it still there?

Regards
Viraf

==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: GRP & RPF...

Date: 02 Jul 1999 20:19:57 -0500



HI!

> Though I am a bit surprised
> that the place of the incidence is Kalyan(civilised western India).
>
> Harsh

But most of the GRP or RPF personnel are uncivilised north (sorry
fellow
north mates). These days , CR has ladies recruited in RPF, most of them
in their early 20s, board early morning CST bound locals ladies F.Class,
take the seats, comb the hair, put make up on the faces, etc.And most of
them are from North, this one can make out with a glance on the name
plates on shirt pockets. In first place they are not supposed to occupy
the FC seats, as this makes paying FC ladies stand the ride & above all
they chat in loud tone & comb etc. This I had brought to the notice of
CRPO,by e-mail. But not much effect till now.

So, no wonder anything can happen even in Mumbai.


Shrinivas

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Horn on a stationary and moving locomotive

Date: 02 Jul 1999 23:33:12 -0500


> As a kid I remember "Shambhaji Park" at Deccan Gymkhana too had a
model
> railway - though I had never seen it running. Is it still there?

This is a small town layout, quite crude by the modelling standard.
There is a railway
line but no train on it. It has been around for the last 40 years !

Apurva

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Assault & aftermath...

Date: 03 Jul 1999 00:41:33 -0500



Assault 1:

The motorman who lost his right eye on June 30th attack by passengers at
Kasara, will receive ex-gratia payment of Rs. 1 lakh from Railways. This
was announced by Minister of states for Rlys. Mr. Naik , when he visited
to the recovering motorman Mr. Gopalan at ICU ward of Byculla
Rly.Hospital
Also an assurance was given that he will be given a suitable jog in
accordance with his current salary.

But no report till now about the arrest of culprits, no witnesses coming
forward.
---------------------------------------
Assault 2:


2nd July saw protests by press photographers & journalists outside CSTM
,
CR's headquarters.

The protests or dharna as locals call it started from Press club, the
pressmen
carried placards & slogans targeted the GRP. The speakers voiced concern
over the treatment meted out to press photographers & wondered how
general
public may be treated if press people are treated so badly.

The state Rly. Minister Mr. Naik announced that the 3 policemen of GRP
are
suspended & transferred to Kurduwadi pending inquiry against them. As
well
adequate compensation would be given for cost of expensive camera &
other
equipment damaged by GRP, besides providing proper medical treatment to
both the photographers.


Reports compiled from Asian Age dated 3rd July

Shrinivas

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: Assault & aftermath...

Date: 03 Jul 1999 04:55:01 -0500


Friends,, kindly refresh my memory - how many (whatever) are in 1 lahk?
1 crore? I remember 100,000 and 10,000,000 but am not certain now...
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

From the Old North State...Where the weak grow strong
And the strong grow great.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: makke ki roti

Date: 03 Jul 1999 10:04:23 -0500


hvc wrote:
>
> I don't know if your corn is same as ours. We also call it maize so to
> speak,
> the same pocorn that you bought. Also known as Indian corn.
>
> Corn-bread may not be technically correct but I don't know what you
will
> call `Makke ki Roti' as.
>
> Harsh

Now I'm puzzled - Popcorn's pretty commonly available in India -
your "maize" is the same?


--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Assault & aftermath...

Date: 03 Jul 1999 10:13:58 -0500


Hello,
A lakh is one hundred thousand.
One hundred thousand: 100,000 is written as 1,00,000 in India, and is
termed a lakh.

One million is called ten lakhs in India.

One hundred lakhs, i.e. ten million is termed as one crore in India.

Hence, cities like Calcutta and Bombay (now Mumbai) have a population of
more than ten million each, i.e. more than a crore population.

I trust this will suffice your requirements.

(I've been outside India for a while now. Lucky I had a visiting
relative from India right next to me)!

Best regards/

Shankar



C.L.Zeni wrote:
>
> Friends,, kindly refresh my memory - how many (whatever) are in 1
lahk?
> 1 crore? I remember 100,000 and 10,000,000 but am not certain now...
> --
> Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
> <A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>
>
> From the Old North State...Where the weak grow strong
> And the strong grow great.

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: GRP & RPF...

Date: 03 Jul 1999 13:38:26 -0500


>But most of the GRP or RPF personnel are uncivilised north (sorry
fellow
>north mates). These days , CR has ladies recruited in RPF, most of them
>in their early 20s, board early morning CST bound locals ladies
F.Class,
>take the seats, comb the hair, put make up on the faces, etc.And most
of
>them are from North, this one can make out with a glance on the name
>plates on shirt pockets.

Does this imply that the other regions of the country are still backward
enough to be not sending their women to join the corps?

Harsh

From: Larry Russell <>

Subject: WDG4

Date: 03 Jul 1999 19:45:27 -0500


Hi Gang. Anyone have any pictures of the WDG4's yet? I'd like to use
some on my EMD web pages for India. I'm in the process of updating my
Indian pages for GM and have found I've downloaded several YDM3 and YDM5
pictures from IRFCA members sites that I would like to use in addition
to my own. I'm reluctant to put them up without the owners permission,
but I can't remember who they belong to. Perhaps someone may remember
these from the thumbnails I am providing on my site at:
<A HREF="http://emdexport.railfan.net/">http://emdexport.railfan.net/</A> look under India on the country list.
Larry Russell

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Food

Date: 03 Jul 1999 20:26:52 -0500


"Dr. K.J. Walker" wrote:
> Also on the culinary side, there has also been some confusion about
> "saag" (pronounced "sharg", though you would know that!) NB that there
are
> quite a lot of different kinds of "spinach", all known by the generic
name
> of "saag". They include sarson ka saag (turnip tops)
...Ummm....not turnip tops, but mustard shoots.
Turnip tops would be called "Shalgam ka Saag".
If visiting Darjeeling, try out "Rayo ko Saag", "Laali ko Saa",
"Moola ko Saag" (Radish shoots) and the exotic "Iskus ko Manta".
These are Nepali names; I don't know the Western equivalents.
Rayo ko Saag is particularly delicious cooked with pork.
At least some years back, you could buy fresh bundles of these at
some DHR watering and passing stops, along with firewood.

> Most of the lads on this list are bachelors and would not have had
much
> cooking experience; hence (with due apology where due, lads).....
I'll help myself to that apology, Dr. Walker: having long
been a bachelor, and a highly kitchen-happy one at that. :)

On mainstream IR ? I quite like the aloo-puri
you get all over IR, particularly when served in
leaves. Ratlam has some good "pethas". I remember
omlettes at Malda, which were a relief after a day
through Bihar. The best station restaurant I remember
was at Ahmedabad Jn.

Perhaps we should wind up this thread on food ?
I seem to be ravenous all the time thanks to the
messages here ! :)

--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Greetings to our American friends

Date: 04 Jul 1999 00:23:27 -0500


Independence day greetings to our dear American friends.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: WDG4

Date: 04 Jul 1999 00:28:45 -0500


Larry,

There are some YDM 3 pics on my site in the 'Shirish's trip to Rajkot'
page. The
pictures are by Dr. Shirish Yande <yandesh@vsnl.email and I am quite sure
he will have
no objections about you putting them on your site as well. Let me know
if you need a
better/ bigger scan.
Go to: <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
Apurva

Larry Russell wrote:

> Hi Gang. Anyone have any pictures of the WDG4's yet? I'd like to use
> some on my EMD web pages for India. I'm in the process of updating my
> Indian pages for GM and have found I've downloaded several YDM3 and
YDM5
> pictures from IRFCA members sites that I would like to use in addition
> to my own. I'm reluctant to put them up without the owners permission,
> but I can't remember who they belong to. Perhaps someone may remember
> these from the thumbnails I am providing on my site at:
> <A HREF="http://emdexport.railfan.net/">http://emdexport.railfan.net/</A> look under India on the country list.
> Larry Russell

From: Dr. K.J. Walker <>

Subject: Re: makke ki roti

Date: 04 Jul 1999 03:04:46 -0500


Hi Annie,
The Indian "corn" in this context is indeed maize. For makki ki
roti
(which is how I learnt to spell it -- doesn't matter, of course, being a
transcription, and likely has regional differences too) it is reduced to
a
flour, and then made up much the same way as an ordinary chapatti. There
are
also rice flour chapattis in the South, made much the same way. The
problem
with all of these non-wheat comestibles is that the flour doesn't stick
together when kneaded, so it's very crumbly. Making the things is quite
an
art. Personally, I don't like makki ki roti much, but I got overdosed
with
corn when in Cleveland Ohoho when doing my Ph.D. I won't willingly eat
anything with corn in it now!
Popping corn is not reduced to flour, of course.
Also on the culinary side, there has also been some confusion about
"saag" (pronounced "sharg", though you would know that!) NB that there
are
quite a lot of different kinds of "spinach", all known by the generic
name
of "saag". They include sarson ka saag (turnip tops), methi (fenugreek
leaves), rglr spinach, silver beet (Swiss chard), and numerous other
spinaches not known to commerce in the boring, standardised West. Long
live
genetic, cultural, and cuinary diversity! Down with GM foods and
manipulative corporations!
Most of the lads on this list are bachelors and would not have had
much
cooking experience; hence (with due apology where due, lads) the lack of
instructive detail in previous postings. Now, if you'd talked to their
wives
......
Cheers
Ken Walker (who did his own cooking for 20 years)

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
To: hvc <hvc@vsnl.email
Cc: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: 3 July 1999 5:43
Subject: Re: makke ki roti


>hvc wrote:
>>
>> I don't know if your corn is same as ours. We also call it maize so
to
>> speak,
>> the same pocorn that you bought. Also known as Indian corn.
>>
>> Corn-bread may not be technically correct but I don't know what you
will
>> call `Makke ki Roti' as.
>>
>> Harsh
>
>Now I'm puzzled - Popcorn's pretty commonly available in India -
>your "maize" is the same?
>
>
>--
>Anniepoo
>Need loco motors?
><A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>
>

From: Nitin Joshi <>

Subject: Greetings to our American friends

Date: 04 Jul 1999 07:24:40 -0500


Hi Apurva
 
How about greeting us on our Canada Day - 01st July.
 
Anyhow, thanks in advance for your well wishes.
 
Nitin Joshi

----- Original Message -----
From: Apurva Bahadur <mailto:iti@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <mailto:irfca@cs.email
Sent: 04.July.99 03:23
Subject: Greetings to our American friends

Independence day greetings to our dear American friends.

Apurva

From: Royston Ellis <>

Subject: Rail food

Date: 04 Jul 1999 09:54:41 -0500


Fellow rail gourmets:
why wind up the thread on food? It's just beginning to get interesting.
Grateful to Dr Ken for clarifying that I was getting excited about
spinach!

Can someone tell me why the standard of catering on the new Rajdhanis is
so
bad when on the Rajdhanis to/from Bombay and Calcutta it is good (well,
my
last meal on a Rajdhani was in 1997 so maybe things have changed).
Royston

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Food

Date: 04 Jul 1999 10:34:55 -0500


Hello,

Indeed, sarson ka saag is mustard shoots, and not turnip tops.
In the south, radish leaves are eaten too, as a kind of saag.
Actually, 'saag' is a term loosely used to denote a thick bunch of
leaves. Hence sarson ka saag is a thick bunch of mustard leaves (shoots)
and so on.

But Jayant, as Royston rightly said, why wind up this food thread?
The diversity of grub is probably 50% of the joy of train travel in
India(though my wife prefers the starched, hygienically sealed type),
and certainly adds a welcome break from signals, operations, coupler
types, intermediate block section etc.

Already living in Dubai, a place totally devoid of railways of any sort
(everyone depends on the rubber tired automobile), I really miss good
old IR and its noisy platform vendors.

I sometimes imagine waking up at 0200 am or some such unearthly hour to
the noisy cacophony of
kaapikaapikaapi or chaaaaiyeeeeah
or brade omllett (bread omlette!), or chai garam chai or
vadaivadaivadaivadai or meals vegetarian meals or something like that!
These hopefuls expect (and sometimes actually get) patronage at such
unearthly timings!
Best regards.
Shankar



Jayant S wrote:
>
> "Dr. K.J. Walker" wrote:
> > Also on the culinary side, there has also been some confusion about
> > "saag" (pronounced "sharg", though you would know that!) NB that
there are
> > quite a lot of different kinds of "spinach", all known by the
generic name
> > of "saag". They include sarson ka saag (turnip tops)
> ...Ummm....not turnip tops, but mustard shoots.
> Turnip tops would be called "Shalgam ka Saag".
> If visiting Darjeeling, try out "Rayo ko Saag", "Laali ko Saa",
> "Moola ko Saag" (Radish shoots) and the exotic "Iskus ko Manta".
> These are Nepali names; I don't know the Western equivalents.
> Rayo ko Saag is particularly delicious cooked with pork.
> At least some years back, you could buy fresh bundles of these at
> some DHR watering and passing stops, along with firewood.
>
> > Most of the lads on this list are bachelors and would not have had
much
> > cooking experience; hence (with due apology where due, lads).....
> I'll help myself to that apology, Dr. Walker: having long
> been a bachelor, and a highly kitchen-happy one at that. :)
>
> On mainstream IR ? I quite like the aloo-puri
> you get all over IR, particularly when served in
> leaves. Ratlam has some good "pethas". I remember
> omlettes at Malda, which were a relief after a day
> through Bihar. The best station restaurant I remember
> was at Ahmedabad Jn.
>
> Perhaps we should wind up this thread on food ?
> I seem to be ravenous all the time thanks to the
> messages here ! :)
>
> --
> JS
> --

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: makke ki roti

Date: 04 Jul 1999 12:10:02 -0500


> They include sarson ka saag (turnip tops), methi (fenugreek
>leaves), rglr spinach, silver beet (Swiss chard), and numerous other
>spinaches not known to commerce in the boring, standardised West. Long
live
>genetic, cultural, and cuinary diversity! Down with GM foods and
>manipulative corporations!


Hey, hey , hey! You got it wrong at the first step itself.
Sarson ka saag = Turnip tops(?!?)

Now back to square one. Maybe another twenty years in the kitchen
starting
from the basics. Oh la la.

Harsh

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Rail food

Date: 04 Jul 1999 12:22:49 -0500


Hello,
The only plausible explanation is the way Rajdhanis and Shatabdis have
been introduced over the past few years.
There was a time when the Rajdhani or Shatabdi label used to denote
something way,way above the ordinary.These trains, as well as the
passengers who travelled by them, were head and shoulders above the
rest.
The railways took pride in them: these trains had prestige, and were
considered the ambassadors of the IR. There were separate standards for
the Rajdhani or Shatabdi, they were not for the ordinary gentry, and
special care was taken in every respect, food included.
But alas, the typically Indian attitude of 'chaltha hai' (anything goes)
takes over at some point or the other.
Moreover, scores of Rajdhanis and Shatabdis have been introduced
haphazardly or without proper planning and staffing, so they are no
longer prestige, they only become fast running trains with some excuse
to fleece the travelling public.
With the opening up of the economy, and with new found wealth,its not
only the VIPs or foreign tourists who travel by them. On the other
hand,foreigners nowadays show a tendency to be more rough and ready and
opt for second class unlike the nose-in-the-air brown Sahibs. And all
sort of third rate riffraffs like politicians, MPs etc travel by these
trains.
All this is bound to take its toll on the quality of service. How else
do you explain unshaven waiters wearing un-ironed clothes and rubber
sandals on board the Rajdhani?
Economies of scale and sky rocketing prices mean that food and
provisions for the Rajdhanis and Shatabdi are also procured en-masse.
That adds to the miseries.
When you have too much of the same thing, it is no longer a novelty. It
becomes impossible to maintain the novelty and uniqueness too. The
railways will always give you that one about non availability of
resourses to maintain separate staff for a special breed of trains,esp
considering the large number of them. (the staff will immediately start
demanding more salary: the unions will see to that!)
Haphazardly introduced luxury trains inconvenience all concerned:running
staff, maintenance staff, catering staff: they show their ire in
lackadisical service.
I think its more of a socio-economic problem, rather than that of sheer
incompetence, callousness or fall in standards.
As the saying goes, it happens only in India! Progress means letting the
good things slide.
Best regards.
Shankar





Royston Ellis wrote:
>
> Fellow rail gourmets:
> why wind up the thread on food? It's just beginning to get
interesting.
> Grateful to Dr Ken for clarifying that I was getting excited about
spinach!
>
> Can someone tell me why the standard of catering on the new Rajdhanis
is so
> bad when on the Rajdhanis to/from Bombay and Calcutta it is good
(well, my
> last meal on a Rajdhani was in 1997 so maybe things have changed).
> Royston

From: S.Shankar <>

Subject: Re: GRP & RPF...

Date: 04 Jul 1999 12:22:58 -0500


Hello,
Ho, ho, my good chap. Easy does it.You're lucky most of the group
members are not from the North, and this group is not India based, or
you will have scores of Northerners flying at your throat. And while you
are distracted with that, some bloke may plant a bomb in your pants!
(Don't worry, I'm from South India, settled in good old Poona (Pune)
since 1971, so I'm a pucca Puneri: no problems from my side!)

Actually, put more diplomatically, and unoffensively, most of the RPF
jawans, like the military jawans, are indeed recruited from the NOrthern
States, possibly because they are so easily available, and are willing
to do the job. Imagine a Madrasi like me or a kerala walla or a Gujju
opting for such a job.

Most of these chaps are from UP, MP, Delhi, Haryana (you'll be surprised
at the number of Rais, Yadavs and Singhs in their ranks!)
They are decidedly bolder and more rough and ready than their fellow
countrymen,(well, Northerners are a lot more rough, strong and hardy
whehter you like it or not),very hard working, sincere, will obey
blindly (down boy down, heel, is all thats required to make them stay
put) etc.
But one thing, they are usually absolutely wooden headed.They are like
robots, programmed to act upon command, thats all.
They receive training in dealing with hardened criminals, wagon breakers
and anti social elements. They spend the entire day patrolling on foot,
roaming the railway yard shooing off urchins,roadside romeos,
prostitutes and mere hangers on. They sit in hot tin sheds in the middle
of the railway yard ready to charge at the slightest provocation.
They have been commanded to guard. To that extent, they do their job
admirably well.
Only, the wooden headedness and training to obey blindly without
question comes in they way. They are unable to distinguish between a
wagon breaker or anti social element and a camera weilding train maniac
from the US or as in my case, Dubai.They have been told to keep
unauthorized persons away from railway premises, so you are treated like
one. When I say treated, I really mean treated.
So many lunatics go and commit suicide under the trains in the railway
yard. I've been asked several times why I want to end my life, just
because I'd visited teh same spot continuously.
They have been programmed to think robbery and prevention of theft from
wagons.
So any innocent bystander or enthusiast is taken to be a
nuisance,someone who comes in their way and obstructs them from doing
their duty. They cannot for the life of them understand that the objects
they guard can actually be interesting enough to photograph and keep in
an album.I have been personally asked so many times: whats so bigin
this? what will you get by photographing rail-gaadis and maal dibbas
(freight wagons. One RPF cop even told me, there is nothing interesting
here. If you want ot photograph something nice, go into town.
And like the constable at the street corner, looking forward to trapping
the unwary motorist to extract a fast buck, a little power goes quite
deep inside. The show of callousness (applying makeup while genuine
passengers stand) is proof of this.
But hte chaps who thrashed the photographers. Were they RPF chaps or
normal cops? RPFs are absolute idiots, and sometimes rough you up, but
they have not been known to get down to outright assault unless if the
person is caught red handed. The two cops must have been normal cops and
must have been drunk, I'm sure.
Anyway, thats an old story, so lets let that pass and take it as a
pointer to us prospective photographers when we head for home (and the
railway station for a shoot session!)
Cheers.
Shankar


SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI wrote:
>
> HI!
>
> > Though I am a bit surprised
> > that the place of the incidence is Kalyan(civilised western India).
> >
> > Harsh
>
> But most of the GRP or RPF personnel are uncivilised north (sorry
fellow
> north mates). These days , CR has ladies recruited in RPF, most of
them
> in their early 20s, board early morning CST bound locals ladies
F.Class,
> take the seats, comb the hair, put make up on the faces, etc.And most
of
> them are from North, this one can make out with a glance on the name
> plates on shirt pockets. In first place they are not supposed to
occupy
> the FC seats, as this makes paying FC ladies stand the ride & above
all
> they chat in loud tone & comb etc. This I had brought to the notice of
> CRPO,by e-mail. But not much effect till now.
>
> So, no wonder anything can happen even in Mumbai.
>
> Shrinivas

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