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From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: Re: Leyland Engine ?

Date: 26 Jun 1999 00:38:21 -0500


At 09:19 AM 6/26/99 +0530, Jayant S wrote:
>Shankar wrote:
>> Imported engine marketed by Ashok Leyland?
>> That must be IVECO. (Italy).
>
>They also have a tie-up with Hino (Japan)
>for heavy diesels, don't they ?

That is correct. AL currently uses Hino engines for their buses based
built
on Viking and Cheetah chassis (Hino WO6D, WO6D-T and WO6E). Perhaps, the
Hino engines are better suited for Buses.

The Iveco line of vehicles are sold in India under the AL Cargo banner
(in
Europe as Iveco Cargo and in the US as Ford Cargo) and tend to be the
smaller trucks in the line up. The heavy trucks (16 tonnes and higer)
are
still Leyland derived, though the plan is to eventually standardize the
entire range of trucks with Iveco technology.

-Sridhar
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sridhar Shankar
GSB MBA'99
The University of Chicago
1616 E. 50th Place, Apt. 13A
Chicago, IL 60615
(773) 752 1131

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: EMU power

Date: 26 Jun 1999 01:45:58 -0500




Jayant S wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > ....The lightly built and just about adequately powered EMU may
accelerate
> > and brake impressively on level ground, but in the ghats the loco
hauled train > wins hands down. I believe the EMU lacks the power to
haul a full load up the > > ghats......
>
> Just wondering: what is the net horsepower rating
> developed by an EMU rake ? Also, are any traction
> motor components common with those on locomotives ?

AFAIK each motor is 250 HP, so each power coach which has two motors is
500 HP and there is one power coach with two trailer coaches. I do not
think there is anything common with a
loco, even the panto is different. Maybe Prakash has some figures ?

Apurva

From: SEMCO-INDIA/ NEERAJ KUMAR SINGAL <>

Subject: unsubscibe

Date: 26 Jun 1999 06:45:41 -0500


Please unsubscribe me from the list


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Bharat Vohra <>

Subject: Check out this page....

Date: 26 Jun 1999 07:49:24 -0500


Hi Gang,
Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
Regards
Bharat

PS-Apurva, the CST-CAPE exp has recently been airbraked!


______________________________________________________
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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Check out this page....

Date: 26 Jun 1999 09:45:32 -0500


What lovely pictures - they are thumbnails - expand to larger size type.

Thanks for news on the 1081 Dn.
Apurva

Bharat Vohra wrote:

> Hi Gang,
> Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
> at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
> Regards
> Bharat
>
> PS-Apurva, the CST-CAPE exp has recently been airbraked!
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: WG webpage

Date: 26 Jun 1999 12:16:51 -0500


Gang !

Check out my WG loco at Daund page.

Go to:
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>

and click on the WG link right at the end.

Apurva

From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: Re: Check out this page....

Date: 26 Jun 1999 14:16:06 -0500


Bharat,

Great pictures. Brings back fond memories - this used to be my old
stomping
ground when my folks used to live there, and I have spent many a summer
days exploring NMR.

Also, looks like the YDM4 experiment has been declared a success. During
my
visit in 94 they had just introduced the first YDM4 (6279) and were
still
quite apprehensive about the track's ability to take in the much heavier
loco.

Thanks for the treat.
-Sridhar

At 07:49 AM 6/26/99 -0700, Bharat Vohra wrote:
>Hi Gang,
>Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
>at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
><A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
>Regards
>Bharat
>
>PS-Apurva, the CST-CAPE exp has recently been airbraked!
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sridhar Shankar
GSB MBA'99
The University of Chicago
1616 E. 50th Place, Apt. 13A
Chicago, IL 60615
(773) 752 1131

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Check out this page....

Date: 26 Jun 1999 14:19:56 -0500


Bharat Vohra wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
> Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
> at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
> Regards
> Bharat
>


Cool page. I'm printing it out to pass around at a
little get togather a modeller is doing next week.
He's going to demonstrate his techniques for making
tropical flora.



--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Vdate <>

Subject: (no subject)

Date: 26 Jun 1999 15:18:06 -0500


Absolutely delightful pxs and accompanying commentary. Thanks for
sharing.

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: WG webpage

Date: 26 Jun 1999 20:10:49 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Check out my WG loco at Daund page.

Hey, thanks for putting up my favourite BG steam loco !!

--
Jayant S
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: WG webpage

Date: 26 Jun 1999 21:30:24 -0500



hanks Jayant,

I made this page with you in mind.
More WG and WP pictures coming up after the Mysore MG locoshed pictures.
Maybe the WDM 2 link of Pune shed would come first.
I have realized that making frequent, small, one subject, webpage is
better than
making a large multipage presentation. Do you have pics that we can make
a webpage out
of ?

Apurva
Jayant S wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > Check out my WG loco at Daund page.
>
> Hey, thanks for putting up my favourite BG steam loco !!
>
> --
> Jayant S
> --

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Check out this page....

Date: 26 Jun 1999 21:39:00 -0500


Dear Bharat,

The YDM 4 picture (big15.jpg) is one of the best Indian Railway action
pictures I have
seen.
Absolutely world class stuff.
Please tell us about the camera that you use. Please scan the images to
150 DPI, I
have found that this size is adequate to 'wallpaper' the image at 800 X
600 on a 15"
monitor without distortion.
100 DPI seems enough for a 14" monitor though. I would invite scanning
tips from other
members.
The 'no short hood' WDM 2 seems to be speciality of the Erode shed. I am
told that the
dynamic brake equipment is moved to long hood and the whole cab is moved
forward. How
does it look from the long hood side ?

Apurva

Anne Ogborn wrote:

> Bharat Vohra wrote:
> >
> > Hi Gang,
> > Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
> > at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
> > Regards
> > Bharat
> >
>
> Cool page. I'm printing it out to pass around at a
> little get togather a modeller is doing next week.
> He's going to demonstrate his techniques for making
> tropical flora.
>
> --
> Anniepoo
> Need loco motors?
> <A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Railbus service

Date: 26 Jun 1999 21:50:14 -0500



>Only in 1983/4 I remember of overnight trains between Porbandar &
Ahmedabad.


In 1983 I believe the mainline from Ahmedabad southwards through Rajkot
to
??? was converted to BG.

>I remember of one particularly fast connecting train between Porbandar
& a
>place I forget.

If you are talking about meter gauge, there was one Kirti Express from
Mahesana to Porbandar which I saw during one boy scouts camping trip.


This was during the guage conversion time wherin Porbandar
>Bombay direct trains were yet to start. I used to catch the Bombay
Veraval
>(??) train

Veraval is still on MG and the nearest place you can get to on BG coming
from Bombay is Rajkot. The other option of course is to change train
from
Ahmedabad.

Harsh

From: Mike Brooker <>

Subject: Shanty, shanty, shanty

Date: 27 Jun 1999 11:26:28 -0500


This lousy pun headlines an item from today's edition of the Times of India:
 
Shanty, shanty, shanty.. is mantra for rail violence

By Nauzer Bharucha and Sanjay Ranade

MUMBAI: Commuters point out that the shanties have power and water connections which could not have been given without the connivance of the authorities concerned. While an honest tax-payer often finds it difficult to get a legitimate water connection without greasing the palms of a junior engineer in thehydraulics department, they grumble, these encroachers enjoy all civic amenities, largely because they are wooed by politicians in search of captive vote-banks.

The problem posed by these hutments comes into sharper focus during the monsoon when the tracks are flooded, making nonsense of train time-tables.

Says a railway official, ``Slum dwellers throw their garbage into the drains running parallel to the tracks, leaving no outlet for the rain water. At places like Sion, Vidyavihar and Bhandup, the flooding on the tracks is so acute that trains are forced to halt because the water damages the undercarriage of the locomotives.''

On normal days, trains designed to run at a maximum speed of 90 kmph barely touch 45 kmph because of the hutments, some of which are just two to four feet away from the tracks.

Recently, a CST-bound train was forced to stop near Chembur station after the a toddler from a nearby slum crawled onto the track. ``Such incidents are normal on the harbour line, especially after we cross Kurla,'' says a motorman, not wishing to be identified. ``God forbid, if the baby had died. The slum dwellers would have attacked the train and the commuters,'' he says.

On the harbour line, motormen have been asked to drive at speeds between 25 to 30 km from Chembur onwards because the shanties virtually kiss the tracks. Children play cricket and fly kites. Women put red chillies out to dry between the tracks, while men laze around on charpoys, listening to the radio, oblivious of the trains thundering past. Near Wadala station, there is even a full-fledged bazaar between the tracks.

Most motormen on the suburban railways have come under increasing pressure while driving through areas where the density of shanties is especially high. ``The stress is tremendous. People walk so casually on the tracks that we are forced to drastically slow down the train,'' says a motorman, not wishing to be named.

Rehabilitating tens of thousands of these illegal occupants, should the railways will it, is not likely to be easy. The CR recently spent Rs 1.38 crore to shift just 900 illegal hutments located near Ghatkopar station to a plot of land at Kanjurmarg in order to lay the fifth and sixth pair of tracks between Kurla and Thane. The project, which is expected to ease the pressure on the existing tracks, has been delayed because there are still 600 hutments which need to be relocated.

Says a CR spokesperson, ``The newly-formed Mumbai Rail Vikas Corporation is negotiating a Rs 400 crore loan with the World Bank for the rehabilitation and resettlement of these encroachers.'' On the Western Railway, 141 hutments have to be relocated for the fifth track between Santa Cruz and Borivali.

Says M.G. Shekhar of the Railway Slumdwellers' Federation, ``The state government claims that it has no land for the resettlement of these people.'' Despite the government's claim, however, the Mumbai Metropolitan Region Development Authority (MMRDA) sub-committee report for the resettlement and rehabiliation of rail projects, 1998, has identified several plots to which the slum dwellers can be shifted.

A vacant plot at Bhandup has been identified for those who will be displaced by the Mumbai Urban Transport Project-II project. The report also suggests that the railways' vacant plot at the Kurla carshed and near Mahim should be made available for developing tenements.

For people living between Cotton Green and Wadala, along the heavily-encroached harbour line, the report has recommended that 2,600 tenements at Pratiksha Nagar in Sion, Mankhurd and Mahul be made available. Those living between Santa Cruz and Virar on the Western Railway line can be relocated at Malvani in Malad, the report states.

But the billion-rupee question remains. Are the railways and the state government serious about tackling the problem?

------------------------------------------------------

I check the Times Of India website regularly.  TOI was my favourite English newspaper while I visited India.

********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON  M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************

From: Shankar <>

Subject: 250-300 kmph trains

Date: 27 Jun 1999 11:43:26 -0500


Hello,
When the first Shatabdi was introduced in 1988. it was touted as the
fastest train in India, capable of 140 kmph, later raised to 145.It has
broken the 130 kmph Rajdhani record, we were told.
Then came news of bogies capable of 160 kmph fitted under the WAP/3s,
then news of the engines and later the cars having been tested for 160.

The last bit I remember having read was that though the engine and cars
have 160 kmph capability, the OHE cannot take such speeds, and the
Shatabdis will be speeded up to 160 kmph once developments take place on
the OHE front;

Today, 12 years hence, the Shatabdis still run at 145 only, with no
signs of speeding up to 160.

In 1994, an engine was tested upto 180 kmph.The much touted high speed
cars from the RCF, though said to be capable of 160, cannot really run
at more that 130. (ref. recent posts).

In the light of all this, I read in the RDSO website a proposal for
trials to run trains at 250-300 kmph trains on dedicated corridors.

Does teh IR have the resources to develop special high speed corridors
for passenger-only traffic? WOuld the economics justify such an
exercise?

And when the IR has been unable to run trains at even 160 kmph after 12
years, isn't 250-300 kmph too much of a far cry?

And with the exception of the 160 kmph (upgradable ot 200 kmph)
capability of the WAP/5, and the 160 kmph capability of the WAP/4, the
newer engines are capable of 130 kmph at the most. Even the passenger
version of the WAG/9 (tentatively classed WAP/7) will be given a max.
speed of 130 kmph only.

When will the real high speed era become a reality in India? 250-300
might not even be suited to Indian conditions, but I think most
expresses should be run between 120-140 kmph, with superfasts clocking
160-200.

Any ideas, gang?

Best regards.
Shankar

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Pune & Bombay EMUs. & 12-car formations

Date: 27 Jun 1999 11:46:29 -0500


Hello,
Interesting, that bit about the controversy about the halt pattern of
the emus.

I read in the RDSO website that they are planning to introduce 16-car
formations as well.Although 12 car formations were introduced way back
in 1988, still, many stations cannot accommodate them. Wonder when the
16 car ones will start coming in. They will start the platform
lengthening all over again! Jai Hind phor that!

Actually, some musings about emu formations:

1. Actually, I must admit that I too haven't heard of 6-car emus.
Probably Delhi used them.
But 3-car,6-car or 4-car emus aren't entirely unheard of either.
The mg Madras suburban system started off in 1930 with handsome UK
built 3-car emus.THese emus were the first mg emus to run in the
country,and were the first, and till date the last, to incorporate a
COMMON BOGIE between cars, hence making them rigid three car
formations.
Newer emus were 4-car, with conventional stock, ie without common
bogie between cars.

The Madras suburban section was the only one in the country to run
emus as single units or coupled in pairs, depending on the crowd.
Most early morning, late morning, afternoon or night services were
run wiht single trains. YOu could hear those dhoti clad men exclaim
'so much crowd:no wonder, its nearing 12. Single service (sic)
has started.

Hence, we had 3 car (old rigid common bogie units) or 4-car emus
(the newer ones) when the trains were run singly, or 6 and 8 car
formations when the trains were run paired.

Rarely, one new 4car and and and old 3-car rigid were coupled
hence, making an unusual 7-car formation.

Rarer still (in those days) were THREE 4-car formations (12 cars),
or 2 rigid+1 4-car i.e. 10 car formations.

2. In the late 1960s, the mg Madras suburban section actually received
two 2-car emus. Well, OK, not emus per se, but railcars.But these ran

for a few weeks only, before being converted into 4-car formations,
wiht the coupling of two additional emu cars in between.

3. As a footnote, after the Madras suburban section was converted to ac,
the 3-car rigids, which were dc stock, could not cope. Their power
car was de-commissioned, and the driving power car of an ac emu
coupled at one end. The rigids were thence converted to 4-car units:
3-rigid+one ac driving trailer.

4. When I was a kid, I'd seen the black/red 3000 V dc WCM/2s (well,they
are now) haul emu coaches. Probably, thats how they spent their last
3000 v dc years: hauling local trains before being rendered redundant
due to ac conversion. (their re-birth as 1500 V dc WCM/2s is another
story altogether.)

More recently, I read in 1992 an SR press release in the English
daily The Hindu, stating that they have pioneered the idea of running
locomotive (YAM/1) hauled suburban trains using spare emu cars, in
order to ease overcrowdingduring peak hours.The paper also carried a
pic of teh emu cars being hauled by a YAM/1.
Just an interesting fact I thought Imust share with you all.

Tragically, none of the 3-car rigid emus are preserved. Handsome devils
they were too. A pic of one of them can be seen in the book "Indian
Railways: 100 years" published by the IR in 1953.
The face portion of one of them was embedded into the wall at the
entrance to the emu car shed in Tambaram. It was removed in 1992, and a
YCG/s was plinthed there instead.

BEst regards.
Shankar








SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI wrote:
>
>
> Then a very funny controversy took place thanks to CR.
>
>
> > Some EMUs in Delhi are also 12 car formation apart from usual 6,9
and 10 car
> > ones.
>
> Mumbai EMU's are of either 9 car or 12 cars. 6 car & 10 car are
unheard
> of.
>
> Bye,
>
> Shrinivas

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Check out this page....

Date: 27 Jun 1999 11:48:12 -0500


Hello Bhart,
Terrific pics, and what a mouthful!
You've given graphic proof that SR locomotives are probably the neatest
and best maintained in the whole country.Even the YDM of the Ooty line:
I think I read in the other website (Vijay's?) that this YDM had
suffered severe collision damage. She looks as good as new here.
THe shed scenes with the Xs are particularly worthy of mension, so also
your closeup of the rack wheel under the X.

Actually, what you term as 'ugliest loco in all India' isn't that ugly
after all.The WDM/2 has been modified to a YDM/3 profile, thats all.
One thing I must add however is that if all the short hood paraphernalia
has been pushed behind, and the cab brought forward, the view from the
short hood must be even worse, thanks to the lengthening of the long
hood by that much.
But yes, I do agree with you to some extent: my view has always been, do
not interfere or try to meddle with the original body or design: better
to leave it as it is,in its original form.

Thanks again for sharing it all with us.

Best regards.
Shankar


Bharat Vohra wrote:
>
> Hi Gang,
> Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
> at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
> Regards
> Bharat
>
> PS-Apurva, the CST-CAPE exp has recently been airbraked!
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Check out this page....

Date: 27 Jun 1999 11:48:20 -0500


Hello Appu,
I found that if you click on the pics, they do enlarge to a larger size.
Best regards.
Shankar


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> What lovely pictures - they are thumbnails - expand to larger size
type.
>
> Thanks for news on the 1081 Dn.
> Apurva
>
> Bharat Vohra wrote:
>
> > Hi Gang,
> > Do check out my page on my recent trip south to Ooty, Coonoor and
Mangalore
> > at the folowing URL and do get back to me with your feebback!
> > <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html">http://members.tripod.com/~railinindia/south.html</A>
> > Regards
> > Bharat
> >
> > PS-Apurva, the CST-CAPE exp has recently been airbraked!
> >
> > ______________________________________________________
> > Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: WG webpage

Date: 27 Jun 1999 11:49:18 -0500


Hi Appu,
Terrific page. Brought back fond memories and all. In fact, it was the
shed superintendent of Daund that branded me as a lunatic for wanting to
go over his shed and take pics! I got a few tame b/w ones in small size.

Fantastic. How did you manage to photograph in such detail? No wonder
you were the first to object to all the posts on photographing trains in
India!!!

One small point, hope you don't mind my mentioning it. All the close ups
are all very well, but one full view of the WG would have been most
welcome. I usually wallpaper admirable pics of trains: I've wallpapered
your YDM at Mysore several times.A grand 45 degree view: same as your
pic # 1, but showing the full engine, without cropping the headlight and
cowcatcher.

And while on the subject, when posting the WP pics, may I request you to
post one full view of the WP as well? It happens to be my favorite class
of loco, and I would love to have it gracing my desktop, possibly
permanently.Your earlier one from the calendar did not fit into my
desktop: it was too large.

Thank you very much once again for a visual feast.

Best regards.

Shankar


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Gang !
>
> Check out my WG loco at Daund page.
>
> Go to:
> <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
>
> and click on the WG link right at the end.
>
> Apurva

From: Raymond Marsh <>

Subject: Re: Opinion poll

Date: 27 Jun 1999 13:09:41 -0500








Probably the first subject to run in an opinion poll would be which are
the most interesting discussion topics to most subscribers.

Regards from Ray.
VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:

> On Fri, 25 Jun 1999 Vdate@aol.email wrote:
>
> > How about making it an annual event with publication of the list
> (and posting
> > it ofcourse). That way we can share the expertise of the members
> with the
> > general public and at the same time make the general public more
> interested
> > in what we do? Other topics might be the best running train meals,
> courteous
> > running staff.
> >
>
> A very good idea. Perhaps we should mail some copies or delivery it
> personaly to the General Managers, CPROs & other Top Brass of IR.
>
> Regarding BEST RUNNING TRAIN MEALS - We always used to eat in the
> DINNING
> CAR whenever travelling to Nagpur & back. Our train used be 1Dn.
> Calcutta
> Mail via Nagpur.
>
> After Dadar the dinning car attendant used to inquire if we would like
> to
> have our dinner in the Diner. At Igatpuri the dinner would be served.
> A
> four course meal I remember - Starting with Soup & finishing with Ice
> cream & Coffee. We as kids used be thrilled eating in the Dinning Car.
> I
> remember once Mr. Pradeep Kumar (Film Star of the yester years) shared
> our
> table. The food was always SUPERB.
>
> These days the only train to carry a dinning car is Bombay - Surat
> Flying
> Ranne (I presume). The car is always crowded not with diners but with
> ticketless commuters who bribe the Dinning Car manager & travel.
>
> My daddy talks very highly of the BRANDON CATERING during his times
> when
> eating out at the railway stations was as fashionable as eating in a
> Five
> Star restaurant these days.
>
> Regards
> Viraf
>
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> ==========================

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