IRFCA Mailing List Archive

Messages 6721 - 6740

Previous 20 Messages          Archive Index          Next 20 Messages

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Catch siding

Date: 19 Jun 1999 22:46:56 -0500


Some more notes from Muhammed the ex railwayman. Thanks !

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions

Date: 20 Jun 1999 03:12:30 -0500


Hello,
Thank you very much, Dr. Walker. A most fitting round-off to the current
thread, I must say.

Incidentally, just to put the record straight: in case your point on
divine help has anything to do with my remark: 'take the lord's name and
shoot', I might clarify that, that was just an expression, a 'so to
speak', and was not to be taken so literally!

Cheers.
Shankar


Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
>
> Hi, everyone,
> Yes, this HAS been a long thread, but it has been interesting, and
it is
> of vital importance to some of us.
> Perhaps I could make a couple of points and retire gracefully?
> 1. My concern about getting gophered by various "authorities" is
based
> on experience. I've never been roughed up by RPF, but they have often
taken
> an interest. I've been warned off by SMs, and there have been several
> occasions when, while carrying a permit, I have been asked for my
authority,
> and being able to produce the permit has saved endless hassles. (And I
have
> been arrested in other countries for taking pictures, with and without
> permits). At Akola, I was once offered (quite out of the blue) a
chance to
> shoot an engine at loco, and then asked for my permit just as I was
setting
> up. Nasty!
> 2. Since I took up movie, and later video, the security of having
a
> permit has been absent, especially since the permit from Delhi was
amended
> specifically to forbid video and movie. This is awkward, since good
video
> absolutely requires the use of a quality tripod, solidly built and
> preferably with a fluid head. Anything else will result in wobbles and
> bobbles that make the finished result hard to look at. (And, by the
way,
> so-called "palmcorders" suffer very seriously from this problem. I
call them
> "wobblecorders": they are toys, not tools.) My camera is quite small,
though
> very high quality, but the mike with its windshield, and the tripod,
are
> unconcealable. Consequently, you are very visible, and a good long
take
> often requires you to be in one place, undistrubed, for at least
several
> minutes at a time. There are several dozen shots I've missed because I
> simply didn't dare produce such gear!
> 3. Most Australians not only object strongly to paying bribes,
they
> actually lack the cultural conditioning to know reliably when one is
being
> asked! (On several occasions I have realised -- often a long time
> afterwards -- that some money would have eased an official situation).
You
> have to remember that, thirty years ago or so, offering an Australian
taxi
> driver a tip was regarded as an insult -- it meant you thought he was
a
> menial! Result is that we generally don't -- and can't -- do it. It
does
> mean we miss some shots, but it also means we generally get what is
typical
> and normal -- not the unusual.
> 4. The reason for suggesting adoption of the German model is
that the
> fact that photography is permitted anywhere public have access
immediately
> removes the incentive for bribes. Many Australian railways, too,
adopted the
> view that photographer could have access to the property if they
signed an
> indemnity absolving the railway of responsibility for injury, etc.
(These
> are also common for fan-trips in hired trains where passengers may get
off
> at places other than stations -- e.g. for photo runbys.)
> 5. I reiterate my comments about "security" wallahs in general
being
> complete idiots. Even the intelligent ones seem to know very little
about
> the technologies they are interdicting, and what is worse, quite a lot
seem
> to know next to nothing about railways and their working, so they
don't even
> know what to protect or how! Mutatis mutandis, the same remarks apply
to
> most insecurity systems everywhere. There is no substitute for
equality,
> self-respect, and mutual regard.
> 6. I think everyone must have had some serious problems with
> bystanders and busybodies, especially in large cities. Some of them
you can
> ignore; others, of course, risk spoiling your pictures and
(particularly)
> soundtrack. I have been amazed, though, at how often a simple request
to be
> quiet and keep heads down results in willing cooperation, especially
in
> rural areas. I have a smattering of Hindi, which, north of the
Mason-Tamil
> line, has been very useful for this. In the South, if one is using
cars, the
> driver can often be very helpful, if properly briefed. I generally
make a
> point of thanking everybody afterward. Giving money is a mistake under
these
> conditions: it generally results in later arrivals being mobbed, often
for
> years afterwards.
> 7. I've never had any divine help with my pictures. I think it's
> because there's no such thing.
> By the way, I have recently put up a handful more pictures on
my
> website (<A HREF="http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh)">http://www.powerup.com.au/~kjw_meh)</A> and am working on an Ooty
video
> to supplement the Darjeeling one already available.
> Happy 'cading, everyone
> Ken Walker
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
> To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> Cc: Anand Krishnan <krish_nand@hotmail.email shankun@microsoft.email
> <shankun@microsoft.email irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> Date: Saturday, 19 June 1999 1:35
> Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions
>
> >Hello,
> >You are probably right, Appu. As I said in the last line of my
post,do
> >not be paranoid, take the lord's name and shoot.
> >Nontheless, as a veteran in this field, don't you think a few tips
and
> >notes would be in order, especially for those who might come from
abroad
> >and then innocently point a camera at something nice and then get
> >rattled? Imagine, they might never take another train pic in India
> >again!
> >But yes, I do agree that maybe this thread was beinning to get a
teeny
> >weeny bit prolonged, and recommend that we end it at this point.
> >Best regards.
> >Shankar
> >Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >>
> >> Please stop treating the photography as such a big issue. Go ahead
and
> shoot as
> >> you wish - just be prepared to get out of trouble when caught. Be
> freindly and
> >> casual - keep the camera out of view till you just need it. Chat
with
> people
> >> including policemen - they are humans too !
> >> One of the master performers in this art was J.A. Daboo who kept a
dead
> pan face
> >> while he fished out the automatic camera from his pant pocket,
clicked a
> few
> >> frames and then went back to being dead panned once again. He could
never
> >> attract attention.
> >>
> >> Apurva
> >>
> >> Anand Krishnan wrote:
> >>
> >> > Hi all,
> >> > Jesus Christ !!!! the very thought of me being hassled by
the
> RPF
> >> > after hearing your experiences send some jitters down my spine.
The
> sleeping
> >> > WAM4 snap that i took was infact in the direct viscinity of some
RPF
> jawans
> >> > on plat.1. But my cam stayed hidden in my hand. Infact i wanted
to have
> a
> >> > word with the driver of 22264 WAP4, but unfortunately he was away
it
> seems
> >> > according to some lineman near the loco. He even asked me if i
wanted
> to
> >> > shoot, hoping to get something out of me perhaps. But then it was
amber
> for
> >> > my train and i had to rush back. Next time i should try getting
> permission
> >> > before hand.
> >> >
> >> > Kind regards,
> >> > Anand
> >> >
> >> > ______________________________________________________
> >> > Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
> >

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 20 Jun 1999 09:34:36 -0500


Gang !

Check out the Shirish Yande's Rajkot trip pictures webpage.
Go to: <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
and click on the Rajkot link right at the end.

Apurva

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 20 Jun 1999 11:06:32 -0500


Hello Appu,
This is a common reply to both the Bhusaval as well as Rajkot sites:

THE PICTURES ARE WORTH DOUBLE THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD!

Steam, after so long. The majestic WP with the large star on her face,
the WG, as well as the B/1 brought back pleasant boyhood memories, and
moistened my eyes.

I still look forward to a day in my life when I will be able to ride a
steam train again.

My brother in Kuwait has a color printer, and I am asking him to print
the sites for me.

I'm willing to pay, is it possible to have enlargements of the steam
pics? Not all, but some of them. I'll specify which.

On another note, the pic in Bhusaval of teh WAG/2 pulling out is also
very interesting.

Despite my feelings to the contrary, the view from the long hood is
surprisingly good. Should be, considering that several superfasts run at
such speed with the engine having her long hood leading.
Is the view that good even from the driver's seat, when is a sitting
position, or it it so because the photographer is standing, little more
to the left and using a zoom lens?

Best regards, and bless you for the steam feast.

Shankar


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Gang !
>
> Check out the Shirish Yande's Rajkot trip pictures webpage.
> Go to: <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
> and click on the Rajkot link right at the end.
>
> Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 20 Jun 1999 11:21:49 -0500


Pictures and the negatives are Shirish's - so send him a mail of
appreciation
<yandesh@vsnl.email

Apurva

Shankar wrote:

> Hello Appu,
> This is a common reply to both the Bhusaval as well as Rajkot sites:
>
> THE PICTURES ARE WORTH DOUBLE THEIR WEIGHT IN GOLD!
>
> Steam, after so long. The majestic WP with the large star on her face,
> the WG, as well as the B/1 brought back pleasant boyhood memories, and
> moistened my eyes.
>
> I still look forward to a day in my life when I will be able to ride a
> steam train again.
>
> My brother in Kuwait has a color printer, and I am asking him to print
> the sites for me.
>
> I'm willing to pay, is it possible to have enlargements of the steam
> pics? Not all, but some of them. I'll specify which.
>
> On another note, the pic in Bhusaval of teh WAG/2 pulling out is also
> very interesting.
>
> Despite my feelings to the contrary, the view from the long hood is
> surprisingly good. Should be, considering that several superfasts run
at
> such speed with the engine having her long hood leading.
> Is the view that good even from the driver's seat, when is a sitting
> position, or it it so because the photographer is standing, little
more
> to the left and using a zoom lens?
>
> Best regards, and bless you for the steam feast.
>
> Shankar
>
> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >
> > Gang !
> >
> > Check out the Shirish Yande's Rajkot trip pictures webpage.
> > Go to: <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
> > and click on the Rajkot link right at the end.
> >
> > Apurva

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Indrayani Express

Date: 20 Jun 1999 11:27:53 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> Hello,

Thats all very well, but how did the train finally come to a standstill?
I was in Abu Dhabi at that time, and I only say a tiny news article
about the Indrayani passengers having had a miraculous escape.

Wans't there another such narrow escape soon afterwards? Involving
another train? I don't remember too clearly, but after both these, the
CR came under massive criticism.

The last time I read of a train having been diverted onto a catch siding
was sometime in 1978 or even earlier: the (then) Bombay-Daund-Manmad
Passenger had to be diverted onto the catch siding after its brakes
failed. The Indian Express had carried a picture taken of the train
head on, from atop the catch siding. (location somewhat similar to your
pic, only in your pic, the train is at the bottom of teh siding and
perpendicular to it.) I even remember the engine in the 1978 pic: it was
a WCM/2.
Best regards.'
Shankar
>
>
> Nitin Joshi wrote:
>
>
> On the 1st December 1994, the Indrayani Express rolled down the ghats
> from Thakurwadi to Karjat yard (13 Kms) without a driver/ assistant in
> the loco or the guard in the brake van.
> This is what I have understood of the circumstances leading to the
> disaster. The official verdict, I suppose we will never know.
> The train was late, it was 2200 Hrs at Thakurwadi (normal is 2000
> Hrs). As soon as the WCM 5 loco stopped at TKW, a fire started in the
> control compartment. The driver dropped the pantograph fearing that
> the presence of high voltage would aggravate the fire. With the
> dropping of the panto, the air compressor stopped.
> The Indrayani was converted to air brake rake only a month back and
> the drivers were newly converted from vacuum brakes with training
> given only for one day. The reasoning was that all the drivers of the
> Mumbai division have worker air braked EMUs for many years before
> promotion to the passenger and mail driver grade. However the air
> brakes of the EMU are of electro-pneumatic type, while the
> mail/express have twin pipe graduated release brakes.
> As per the driver, wooden wedges were put on the wheels of the dead
> loco. The fire intensified and the driver went to the TKW cabin to
> call the power controller (sitting in CSTM building) to appraise him
> of the emergency. All this time the point controlling the TKW catch
> siding, were set for the hills. But the timer ran out and the points
> were now set for the main line and the line clear signal was given.
> The situation was that the loco was really ablaze by now and the
> assistant was also out of the cab. Apparently, the brake valve of the
> air braked loco (which itself was converted from pure vacuum brakes),
> had its 'sense' reversed. So if the vacuum braked loco, the lever was
> pulled to operate the brakes, now the lever was pushed to operate the
> brakes. The assistant was 'from the ranks' - a person who joined the
> IR in a clerical trade and got a transfer to (higher paying) driving
> category much later in his career. Maybe he saw the brake valve in the
> applied position and thought that the driver had forgotten to operate
> the brakes and actually released the brakes.
> In any case the brake pressure was now zero and the brakes released.
> The train started to roll from TKW to Karjat Yard at over estimated
> 100 Kmph (max permitted speed in 55 Kmph) on 1in 37 gradients. The was
> also a report of an electrical fire within the first or second coach.
> Many of the passengers had no idea that the train had no driver, they
> just thought that the train was going quite fast. The brake blocks on
> many coaches had molten and fallen off, when some of the passengers
> tried to apply the brakes by the alarm chain.
> The drivers/ guard and some of the passengers were trapped at TKW till
> 0300 Hrs when the line was reopened. In the meantime the police party
> at TKW walked 13 Kms in the night to Karjat to check for any
> causalities thrown off from the train, or any damage to the tracks.
> The driver was suspended from the footplate for 2 years and was
> subsequently cleared to drive mail/express trains. He retired with a
> clear service record.
> Failures as I see :
>
> 1. The driver and the assistant, their training on how to handle
> multiple emergencies.
> 2. The administration on their failure to provide adequate training
> on air braked locos and rakes in difficult ghat section. The
> rules that apply on the rest of the IR do not necessarily hold
> true in the steep ghats
> 3. The station master of the TKW cabin for allowing the clearly dead
> and burning WCM 5 on the main line. He could have put back the
> point to the catch siding position and train would have rolled
> into the hill.
>
> Maybe many such incidents have taken place on the IR but they do not
> come into the public notice.
> The Mumbai division tried many times to duplicate the conditions with
> the same rake and loco at the same spot, but could not succeed in
> rolling the Indrayani Express once again. So what really happened that
> day is still a bit of mystery.
>
> Apurva
>
> I do not remember hearing or reading about the Indrayani
> incident in theBhore Ghat's. Can somebody enlighten me!!!

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 20 Jun 1999 13:33:30 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Gang !
>
> Check out the Shirish Yande's Rajkot trip pictures webpage.
> Go to: <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>
> and click on the Rajkot link right at the end.
>
> Apurva


Great shots!! One question,either my eyes are not what they used to be,
or is that YDM3 #6056 sitting on an idler truck on the far end of the
loco?

Tim

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 20 Jun 1999 18:37:21 -0500




Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:

> Great shots!! One question,either my eyes are not what they used to
be,
> or is that YDM3 #6056 sitting on an idler truck on the far end of the
> loco?

As per J.E. Daboo's book 'A guide to Diesel and Electric Locomotives of
the Indian
Railways', the YDM 3 is a 1B-B1, so the leading and trailing wheels on
the bogie/truck
are just weight spreaders. Are you asking whether the YDM 3 is in heavy
maintenance
with its original truck removed for repairs ? That may not be true -
Surendranagar is
a small place lacking any maintenance facilities, in any case the parent
shed for this
power is Sabarmati at Ahmedabad, which is nearby.

Apurva

>
>
> Tim

From: Dr. M S M Saifullah <>

Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions

Date: 20 Jun 1999 20:24:30 -0500


Hello everyone!

>You are probably right, Appu. As I said in the last line of my post,do
>not be paranoid, take the lord's name and shoot.
>Nontheless, as a veteran in this field, don't you think a few tips and
>notes would be in order, especially for those who might come from
abroad
>and then innocently point a camera at something nice and then get
>rattled? Imagine, they might never take another train pic in India
>again!
>But yes, I do agree that maybe this thread was beinning to get a teeny
>weeny bit prolonged, and recommend that we end it at this point.

I have to agree with Apurva about how not to be paranoid about taking
pictures. When I was a kid, i.e., about 14 years old (now I am 28!), I
happened to pataoed the fireman of the Steam loco at VSKP and he gave a
a
ride from one end of the platform to another. I called my parents from
the
loco and they thought that I was kidnapped or something :)

The moral of the story is simply not to get too much paranoid about
doing
anything. Be cool and calm, shoot when required to put the camera back
in
the bag. Showing off the stuff attracts unnecessary attention.

Since there was also a discussion about the speed of the film, my
personal
experience from last 4 years of photography is that the 200 speed film
is
the best in various conditions of light. Higher speeds like 800 add
graininess to the picture because of larger grain size of the silver
bromide in the film. 400 speed should be an option when 200 speed is not
available.

As far as the cameras are concerned, compact cameras are good such as
Olympus mju for doing the job stealthily. SLR are the best ones for
shooting to kill type photography as they have negligible parallex error
unlike the compact cameras. So, what you see in the view-finder is what
you
get on the film in SLR cameras.

Regards
Saifullah

From: Muhammed Khan <>

Subject: Re: Catch siding

Date: 20 Jun 1999 20:51:41 -0500


If I am not mistaken there are catch sidings on Amla -Itarsi sections at
Ghudankhapa, Teegaon and Darakhoh.
Beside catch sidings there are SLIP sidings. These are provided at
stations
who have a falling gradient of 1 in 26 and are meant to prevent any
stabled
train from rolling away and entering the block section.
Muhammed
-----Original Message-----
From: hvc <champa@del3.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email Muhammed Khan <ashiane@erols.email
Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 6:06 AM
Subject: Re: Catch siding


>Most interesting stuff. I always felt that the PW gang takes special
care
in
>maintaining the catch sidings for otherwise the peculiar monsoons of
the
>ghats would simply wash them off. I have never heard of a derailment on
a
>catch siding. Instances of failure to arrest - many.
>
>Could you please enlighten us about the No. and locations of catch
sidings
>in the Amla-Itarsi section. I seem to recollect only one - at
`Ghudkhand'.
>
>Harsh
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Muhammed Khan <ashiane@erols.email
>To: Apurva Bahadur <irfca@cs.email
>Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 4:47 PM
>Subject: Catch siding
>
>
>>Hi Apurva Bhadur:
>>The discussion going on regarding catch siding is interesting. As far
as I
>>remember, the catch siding has a definite profile and has been
standardized
>>by RDAs Lucknow, based on the approaching grades. It is not essential
to
>>have a natural hill or grade, it can be artificially created grade.
But
>>normally since the catch siding is required in hilly terrain the
>>availability of a rising grade is an asset. The entry into the siding
is
>>normally on a straight line from the switch which is locked in the
normal
>>position till it is ensured that the train has come to a halt. In case
the
>>train is unable to stop or the driver is inattentive the train is
taken
>into
>>the siding. It is incorrect to say that the the railways do not care
if
the
>>train derails in the catch siding. The very design is to "Catch" the
train.
>>The provision of sand is to arrest,or technically to absorb the
>>energy,thereby bringing the train to a halt. Remember that though the
train
>>under worst conditions, is under,or is being put in braking mode.The
>>design,length,the construction and the grade of the siding is such
that
>the
>>train is prevented from derailing. Imagine a passenger train entering
the
>>siding at that speed and energy and derailing. The very purpose is
defeated
>>if the train is not caught.
>>I was involved in various departmental inquiries where in goods
trains
>have
>>entered the catch sidings on the Alma-Tarsi section of the Nagpur
division.
>>There are catch sidings in the hat sections over the Vindya Mts. The
main
>>function of the inquiries was to analyze the causes, which in most
cases
>was
>>due to the driver, in the early hours of the morning dosing off,
especially
>>with the pleasant breeze of the mountain air a long long day. But
there
>were
>>cases when it was pure mechanical failure.
>>Muhammed
>>
>>
>
>

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 20 Jun 1999 22:48:27 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
>
> > Great shots!! One question,either my eyes are not what they used to
be,
> > or is that YDM3 #6056 sitting on an idler truck on the far end of
the
> > loco?
>
> As per J.E. Daboo's book 'A guide to Diesel and Electric Locomotives
of the Indian
> Railways', the YDM 3 is a 1B-B1, so the leading and trailing wheels on
the bogie/truck
> are just weight spreaders. Are you asking whether the YDM 3 is in
heavy maintenance
> with its original truck removed for repairs ? That may not be true -
Surendranagar is
> a small place lacking any maintenance facilities, in any case the
parent shed for this
> power is Sabarmati at Ahmedabad, which is nearby.
>
> Apurva
>
> >Apurva,

Yes, that was what I was thinking, that it is under repair. The truck
under the cab clearly shows an axle journal. The truck under the
powerplant looks to be off a frieght or passenger car without the
journal box that the other truck has.It looks to be a roller bearing
type. This could be just the design you speak of,(1B- B1),I have never
seen, or heard for that matter, this type of arrangement.

Thanks for the info, Tim

> >
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Indrayani Express

Date: 21 Jun 1999 01:13:50 -0500




Shankar wrote:

> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> > Hello,
>
> Thats all very well, but how did the train finally come to a
standstill?
> I was in Abu Dhabi at that time, and I only say a tiny news article
> about the Indrayani passengers having had a miraculous escape.

The train was halted by the application of the brakes by pulling the
alarm
chain by the passenger. As per one version, the brake blocks of the
passenger coach melted and that set one coach on fire ! The Mumbai end
of
Karjat yard has a slight climb, and that is what stopped the train. Had
it
not been arrested there, the next upslope is near Neral !

> Wans't there another such narrow escape soon afterwards? Involving
> another train? I don't remember too clearly, but after both these, the
> CR came under massive criticism.

Even I cannot remember the second incident, but yes, there was
something. I
think another loco caught fire in the ghats, but did not roll down.

> The last time I read of a train having been diverted onto a catch
siding
> was sometime in 1978 or even earlier: the (then) Bombay-Daund-Manmad
> Passenger had to be diverted onto the catch siding after its brakes
> failed. The Indian Express had carried a picture taken of the train
> head on, from atop the catch siding. (location somewhat similar to
your
> pic, only in your pic, the train is at the bottom of teh siding and
> perpendicular to it.) I even remember the engine in the 1978 pic: it
was
> a WCM/2

I remember the picture in Times of India which showed the train from the
bottom of the catch siding. This means that the catch siding has been
used
only once in the recent times (30 - 40 years !).

There have been a couple of incidents where a climbing rake parted
coupling
and rolled back.
In one such incident the climbing freight rake did not have a banker.
The
driver of the lead loco got an erroneous reading of vacuum being OK by a
rag
(or a dead rat ?) in the brake pipe. The signal was given and the train
started without a banker, all the way past Jhambrung. After this point
the
rising gradient parted the coupling and the rear of the train rolled
back
with extreme speed. The runaway rake collided with a standing loco in
the
Karjat yard killing both the drivers in that power. The impact was such
that
the runaway rake climbed on top of the unfortunate loco. In another
incident, a light WDM 2 had a shutdown in the middle of the ghat and
that
rolled back to Karjat killing everyone aboard the WDM 2.
After these accident, the modified procedure is that the banker starts
the
train. The banker pushes the train well past the diamond crossing in the
KJT
yard. Once the train in on the mainline, the lead driver opens up and
notches up until the series parallel combination. The only means of
communication (until recently) between the lead and the banker driver
was
the vacuum gauge ! The banker driver working blind watched only his
ammeter
and the brake pipe pressure gauge. The experts amongst experts could
tell a
lot about what the lead driver was doing by just watching these two
readings. To complicate the matters more, the rising altitude from KJT
to
LNL means that the vacuum reading changes all the time. The banker
drivers
compensate for this altitude change by boosting the exhauster.
I think that the ghat operation now uses a walkie talkie extensively.
However even under normal circumstances the communication in a WCG 2 is
by
sign language due to the extreme noise level, so will the walkie be
audible
?

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Catch siding

Date: 21 Jun 1999 01:30:23 -0500


Thanks to Muhammed for his notes. In future, please mark a
copy to IRFCA, there are quite a number of rail crazy janata
there who would love to participate in this discussion.

Apurva

From: John Lacey <>

Subject: Re: Pilferage

Date: 21 Jun 1999 01:32:47 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> Thanks to Satish for his inputs on this subject
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film
> Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 21:22:13 -0400
> From: S Pai <s_pai@bigfoot.email
> To: iti@vsnl.email
>
> Apurva,
>
> Many years ago I heard a story similar to yours, which is that some
> thieves had an organized way to steal the cables of the OHE catenary!
> Apparently the trick was to tie a steel or other wire firmly to one of
> the rails, and a stone at the other end, and hurl the store over the
> catenary. The short-circuit causes the circuit-breakers to trip for
> several km on either side, and these guys know exactly how long it
takes
> for the railway folks to come up there to investigate in their jeep or
> whatever. In that time they use ladders and casually cut and roll up
> catenary wires, grab insulators, etc.
>
> Now, this is only second-hand narration. I don't know whether it
> actually happened, but I'm inclined to believe people would have tried
> it a few times. Haven't heard of it recently, perhaps these days the
> cable is not worth the time and effort for such an operation. (Maybe
> the material has changed; I believe street light wires were also
stolen
> regularly earlier when the material was some more expensive alloy than
> currently.)
>
> --Satish

What an amazing collection of stories!
All I can add is that I can remember press reports about the theft of
overhead wiring-and consequent train service disruptions ( on ER? SER?)-
in about 1982-3.
John Lacey

From: hvc <>

Subject: Fw: Catch siding

Date: 21 Jun 1999 01:52:58 -0500


>Thanks to Muhammed for his notes. In future, please mark a
>copy to IRFCA, there are quite a number of rail crazy janata
>there who would love to participate in this discussion.
>


Hi!
Initially I too thought that the message was not marked to the
list
but since I had received two copies of the message, a closer
examination
revealed that Muhammed has infact classified `Apurva as IRFCA' in his
email
directory.

No wonder though since Apurva no doubt is the strongest going member of
the
list is his name is synonmous with IRFCA. He also takes credit for
introducing so many railfans to the list. His website of course is a
prime
motivation for many to be drawn towards the list.

Bravo, and keep it up Apurva.

Harsh


-----Original Message-----
From: Muhammed Khan <ashiane@erols.email
To: hvc <hvc@vsnl.email
Cc: Apurva Bahadur <irfca@cs.email
Date: Monday, June 21, 1999 7:14 AM
Subject: Re: Catch siding


>If I am not mistaken there are catch sidings on Amla -Itarsi sections
at
>Ghudankhapa, Teegaon and Darakhoh.
>Beside catch sidings there are SLIP sidings. These are provided at
stations
>who have a falling gradient of 1 in 26 and are meant to prevent any
stabled
>train from rolling away and entering the block section.
>Muhammed
>-----Original Message-----
>From: hvc <champa@del3.email
>To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email Muhammed Khan <ashiane@erols.email
>Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 6:06 AM
>Subject: Re: Catch siding
>
>
>>Most interesting stuff. I always felt that the PW gang takes special
care
>in
>>maintaining the catch sidings for otherwise the peculiar monsoons of
the
>>ghats would simply wash them off. I have never heard of a derailment
on a
>>catch siding. Instances of failure to arrest - many.
>>
>>Could you please enlighten us about the No. and locations of catch
sidings
>>in the Amla-Itarsi section. I seem to recollect only one - at
`Ghudkhand'.
>>
>>Harsh
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Muhammed Khan <ashiane@erols.email
>>To: Apurva Bahadur <irfca@cs.email
>>Date: Sunday, June 20, 1999 4:47 PM
>>Subject: Catch siding
>>
>>
>>>Hi Apurva Bhadur:
>>>The discussion going on regarding catch siding is interesting. As far
as
I
>>>remember, the catch siding has a definite profile and has been
>standardized
>>>by RDAs Lucknow, based on the approaching grades. It is not essential
to
>>>have a natural hill or grade, it can be artificially created grade.
But
>>>normally since the catch siding is required in hilly terrain the
>>>availability of a rising grade is an asset. The entry into the
siding is
>>>normally on a straight line from the switch which is locked in the
normal
>>>position till it is ensured that the train has come to a halt. In
case
the
>>>train is unable to stop or the driver is inattentive the train is
taken
>>into
>>>the siding. It is incorrect to say that the the railways do not care
if
>the
>>>train derails in the catch siding. The very design is to "Catch" the
>train.
>>>The provision of sand is to arrest,or technically to absorb the
>>>energy,thereby bringing the train to a halt. Remember that though the
>train
>>>under worst conditions, is under,or is being put in braking mode.The
>>>design,length,the construction and the grade of the siding is such
that
>>the
>>>train is prevented from derailing. Imagine a passenger train entering
the
>>>siding at that speed and energy and derailing. The very purpose is
>defeated
>>>if the train is not caught.
>>>I was involved in various departmental inquiries where in goods
trains
>>have
>>>entered the catch sidings on the Alma-Tarsi section of the Nagpur
>division.
>>>There are catch sidings in the hat sections over the Vindya Mts. The
main
>>>function of the inquiries was to analyze the causes, which in most
cases
>>was
>>>due to the driver, in the early hours of the morning dosing off,
>especially
>>>with the pleasant breeze of the mountain air a long long day. But
there
>>were
>>>cases when it was pure mechanical failure.
>>>Muhammed
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>

From: Joydeep Dutta <>

Subject: Re: High-speed coaches from RCF et al.

Date: 21 Jun 1999 03:16:19 -0500


Thereis no question of doing windtunnel tests on IR all their
aerodynamic
styling is just for cosmetic looks. The high speed coaches that were
built
by the RCF for 160kph gave poor results in the oscillation trails after
130kph and hence are restricted to that speed and the rake of the Delhi
Amritsar Swarna Shatabdi is composed of those pseudo high speed coaches
IRY
/IR 20.
joydeep


>From: "Dr. M S M Saifullah" <saif@aecl.email
>To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: High-speed coaches from RCF et al.
>Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 19:59:59 +0900
>
>Hello everyone!
>
>I had read a few years ago that RCF, Kapurthala is going to produce
>high-speed coaches. There were also some pictures shown. I wonder what
>happened to that project? Any ideas?
>
>As far as I remember the coaches were of aluminium body with some
>corrugated structure on top and bottom of the windows.
>
>Also does DLW or CLW have wind-tunnel testing machines for checking the
>aerodynamics? As far as DLW is concerned, I truly doubt. They produce
some
>of the most non-aerodynamic and unaesthetic locos of the world (but
great
>work horses!!). CLW may have one or may ask some institute like IISc,
>Bangalore or ADA for their wind-tunnel tests. WAP locos are slightly
better
>than WAM or WAG locos as far as aerodynamics are concerned.
>
>In Japan, wind-tunnel testing is carried out on the cars and I am
pretty
>sure the trains too...
>
>Regards
>Saifullah
>
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Webpage of Rajkot trip

Date: 21 Jun 1999 03:46:56 -0500


> Yes, that was what I was thinking, that it is under repair. The truck
> under the cab clearly shows an axle journal. The truck under the
> powerplant looks to be off a frieght or passenger car without the
> journal box that the other truck has.It looks to be a roller bearing
> type. This could be just the design you speak of,(1B- B1),I have
never
> seen, or heard for that matter, this type of arrangement.

The most powerful NG loco in the world the ZDM 5 also uses the 1BB1
'weight spreading' wheel
arrangement. A picture of of the ZDM 5 can be found on my website in the
'Pictures from
Daund in July 98' link, then click on the piggyback load section. You
can just about make
out the separate leading and trailing wheels in the bogie/ truck. Come
to think of it, I
have some ZDM 5 snaps, which would soon be put up on the web, please
wait till then.

Apurva

From: David Trotter <>

Subject: Re: WG/Pakheezah

Date: 21 Jun 1999 04:56:46 -0500


Hi Jayant:
Having grown up in the area have you any stories of the workings of the
Darjeeling Line?
Did you ever have the opportunity to visit the Railway Works? I
managed a
quick visit in 1998 and found that it was very much like stepping back
into
the past.

David T

----- Original Message -----
From: Jayant S <sank@telco.email
To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Sent: 16 June 1999 10:50
Subject: Re: WG/Pakheezah


>
> > > This is not fair !!! I came to Pune in 1990, long
> > > after this WG had gone !!! Anyway, I've seen steam
> > > sights on NFR and WR too........
> >
> > The WG is before the 90s. Maybe 70s - 80s. That time we did
> > not go ape at the
> > sight of a WG.
>
> I always did, myself. I grew up in Darjeeling and
> was used to dimunitive trains as a child. I remember
> coming down to NJP in 1975 for the first time, getting
> awed at the sight of BG trackage, and then getting
> thoroughly spooked by a WG as it came snorting and
> hissing alongside: the SIZE was what was terrifying.
> My best time with a WG was in 1986 at NJP when I
> spent several hours in the cab all over the yard.
> Still think it was a magnificient loco class.
>
> > > Umm....do you mean good riddance to Meena Kumari, or the
> > > loco ? Please note that she falls between the rails, and
> > > the loco is reversed to rescue her.
> >
> > Not having seen the film, does the loco manage to run her
> > over, or is is just
> > in time ? In short does she suffer damage ?
>
> If I remember correctly, she is unhurt, even though
> the loco passes over her and stops, as she falls between
> the rails. Come to think of it, shouldn't the cowcatcher
> have scraped her ?
>
> Anyway, she is rescued by Raj Kumar, who is on the train.
>
> --
> JS
> --
>

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Indrayani Express

Date: 21 Jun 1999 06:55:40 -0500


>There have been a couple of incidents where a climbing rake parted
coupling
>and rolled back.
>In one such incident the climbing freight rake did not have a banker.
The
>driver of the lead loco got an erroneous reading of vacuum being OK by
a
rag
>(or a dead rat ?) in the brake pipe.

Are there still any vaccum-brake-only and without banker trains still
running in the Bhore/ Thull ghats?

From: David Trotter <>

Subject: Re: Catch siding

Date: 21 Jun 1999 06:59:04 -0500


Hi Muhammed:

I found your message on what we, in Ireland, know as catch points, very
interesting. Generally we have them in two situations. 1/ To protect a
switch or turnout linking a siding to a running line. 2/ To prevent
run-aways on an up hill section of double track.
Would you in your career have come across the working of
reciprocating
saws for cutting rails. Currently I am trying to develop techniques to
prevent the breaking of blades and would appreciate any thoughts you may
have on the subject.
David T.
----- Original Message -----
From: Muhammed Khan <ashiane@erols.email
To: Apurva Bahadur <irfca@cs.email
Sent: 20 June 1999 02:11
Subject: Catch siding


> Hi Apurva Bhadur:
> The discussion going on regarding catch siding is interesting. As far
as I
> remember, the catch siding has a definite profile and has been
standardized
> by RDAs Lucknow, based on the approaching grades. It is not essential
to
> have a natural hill or grade, it can be artificially created grade.
But
> normally since the catch siding is required in hilly terrain the
> availability of a rising grade is an asset. The entry into the siding
is
> normally on a straight line from the switch which is locked in the
normal
> position till it is ensured that the train has come to a halt. In case
the
> train is unable to stop or the driver is inattentive the train is
taken
into
> the siding. It is incorrect to say that the the railways do not care
if
the
> train derails in the catch siding. The very design is to "Catch" the
train.
> The provision of sand is to arrest,or technically to absorb the
> energy,thereby bringing the train to a halt. Remember that though the
train
> under worst conditions, is under,or is being put in braking mode.The
> design,length,the construction and the grade of the siding is such
that
the
> train is prevented from derailing. Imagine a passenger train entering
the
> siding at that speed and energy and derailing. The very purpose is
defeated
> if the train is not caught.
> I was involved in various departmental inquiries where in goods
trains
have
> entered the catch sidings on the Alma-Tarsi section of the Nagpur
division.
> There are catch sidings in the hat sections over the Vindya Mts. The
main
> function of the inquiries was to analyze the causes, which in most
cases
was
> due to the driver, in the early hours of the morning dosing off,
especially
> with the pleasant breeze of the mountain air a long long day. But
there
were
> cases when it was pure mechanical failure.
> Muhammed
>
>

The content of the individual messages displayed here is subject to copyright by the original authors and may not be reproduced outside the context of IRFCA without permission.
Note: This site is not officially affiliated with Indian Railways! The official web site of Indian Railways is: http://www.indianrailways.gov.in
Site contact: webmaster@irfca.org
Copyright © 2010, IRFCA.org. About IRFCA  Contact Us  Search this site  Site Map  Links   Acknowledgements  Legal Information & Disclaimers