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From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Trains in Indian Movies.

Date: 15 Jun 1999 22:19:00 -0500


>
> The scene was copied from A.Christe's "Murder She
> >Said".
>
>
> Was it not "4.12 from Paddington"?


The novel was 4.12 from Paddington (if the timings are correct) but I am
sure the movie was "Murder She Said" 'cause it was shown on TV a few
months back (TNT Channel) besides I have it's title music on 45rpm
record.

Viraf


==========================
Viraf Mulla
C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
Borivali (West)
Mumbai 400103
Tel: +91-22-8954510
E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
==========================

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Notes on Electric locos from the vault

Date: 15 Jun 1999 22:26:44 -0500


>I am to believe that till very recently Southern railways
>metre gauge
>network had DC traction, but recent photgraphs prove
>otherwise.
>Also a loco preserved at the rail museum at Delhi is marked
>YCG1!!


The Madras Egmore - Tambaram line was originally electrified in 1931 at
1.5
KV DC only. When elctrification was extended to Villupuram in 1965, 25
KV AC
traction was opted. The former section was also converted to AC by 1967.
Earlier DC locos came from English Electric and Hawthorn Leslie of UK
and
later AC powers came from Mitsubishi, Japan.

So the YCG1 20900 at NRM is correctly marked!

Harsh

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: California State Railroad Museum

Date: 15 Jun 1999 22:40:04 -0500


Just received a set of photographs taken
at this Museum by a friend in Sacramento
along with a booklet.
The booklet is beautifully produced. Wish the
NRM could do something similar about the design
of its publicity material.

--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Brake van

Date: 15 Jun 1999 23:29:10 -0500




> Mr. kadam's brake van was next to the locomotive and I had a grand
view of
> our loco from his observation window.

What sounds does the WCAM 1 make while on the run? One of the fond
memories I
have us while returning on the 7304 Up Sahyadri Express from Miraj to
Pune
while returning from a NCC camp in the college days. We had a sleeper
right
next to the loco and the vestibule door was open (was it missing or was
it
jammed, I do not remember). There were more of us and less berths, so
some of
us slept in the passage facing the hissing, snorting, thundering loco.
Every
time the loco would notch up, the dark smelly exhaust would enter the
vestibule. The pilot lamps of the loco were on through the night and
illuminated our dark carriage somewhat. It was awesome !

Apurva

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: California State Railroad Museum

Date: 15 Jun 1999 23:31:43 -0500


Jayant S wrote:
>
> Just received a set of photographs taken
> at this Museum by a friend in Sacramento
> along with a booklet.
> The booklet is beautifully produced. Wish the
> NRM could do something similar about the design
> of its publicity material.
>

I live about 30 minutes train ride from this museum,
am a member, etc.
The museum itself is not, in my opinion, as well thought
out as the NRM.

They are having a RailFair next week. This is a once every
10 years giant extravaganza. They've laid tracks in front of
a stage, and will be bringing in dozens of steam engines to
'perform'. I'm very, very excited about it.

--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film

Date: 15 Jun 1999 23:44:27 -0500




Don Mills wrote:

> I was under the impression that many hobos ride on India Rails. If a
> person does not pay and sneaks onboard, is he not a hobo? With the
> population of some of India's cities I do not see how a country could
not
> have this type of problem. Don in WV

With abundance of passenger trains, a ticketless (officially know as
"W/T" -
without ticket) person need not ride a slow and unpredictable freight
train
on the IR.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film

Date: 15 Jun 1999 23:47:12 -0500


>
> > > The producers look at these neglected shunters as good omen???
> Hmm....possibly IR would charge CONSIDERABLY more to rent
> out a mainline loco, WDM2 or WAM4 etc., for a film shoot.
> Only railfans recognise the delightful absurdity in the
> depiction of a WDS4 on a mainline train....though I
> remember the Karjat-Khopoli passenger being hauled by a
> WDS4 in the past. Used to look almost toylike seen from
> the elevation of a Pune-Mumbai train approaching
> Palasdhari, with three or four coaches and the
> connecting rods of the WDS4 flailing away.

Before the WDS 4, this passenger used to hauled by a tender
foremost
WG. I remember the WG hauled morning passenger being hauled
towards Khopoli in
the valley floor while the Deccan Queen that I was on was
descending
the ghats at a much higher altitude.
The huge reservoir of water at Palasdhari was actually used to
stave
the thirst of the WGs which used to bank the locos in the
ghat. If I
remember correctly the WG banker through the ghats had to be
rewatered
3 times before climbing through to Lonavala. Does any one (has
to be
post middle age ?) remember the steam locos operating through
Bhore
and Thull ghats ? Viraf ?

>
> > > 2. Nothing can match the beauty or romance of a steam
> > > locomotive in a movie or a song! Recollect the Sholay raid in
> > > the start. (The
> > > scene where the meter gauge(?) loco ploughs through wooden
> > > sleepers/logs is mind blowing.)
> I remember that scene: the loco rocks on its springs when
> it hits the barricade which is a little surprising. Did
> they use a model for that shot ? I saw the film when I
> was very young and could not have made out. Must see it again.

No this was a real loco and a real train - I think it was HPS
or HGS
class. While a sleeper across the track = sure derailment in
the real
railway operation, this was an awful lot of risk they took for
making
a film. I have seen the scene on a video in real slow motion -
it is a
real loco all right.

>
> There was a remarkable steam loco performance in "Pakeezah"
> where the loco runs over Meena Kumari after she is caught
> in a switch. Does anyone remember what loco type this was ?

All I can say is - Good riddance !

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Nashik-Dahanu line!

Date: 15 Jun 1999 23:53:36 -0500




"SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI" wrote:

> Hi!
>
> >From many reports published in Mumbai newspapers :
>
> On 12th June 1999, survey for Nashik- Dahanu railway line was
officially
> announced to have started . A function to mark this occasion was
organised
> at Jawhar Palace, in the adivasi belt of Western Maharashtra in
presence
> of Rly. Minister Mr. Naik & many local leaders.
>
> This route is in demand since long. So, hopefully the survey will be
over
> by Feb. 2000 as promised by the Minister. And the work will follow
soon.
> This will be single line , with few tunnels en route.

What is the need for this line ? As it is the BSR track is underutilized
so
which new traffic will justify the new line ? Is there a harbour coming
up in
this area or will it haul coal to the Dahanu thermal power plant ? In
our last
trip (Jan 99), I remember several BOXN trainloads of coal at Surat which
had
presumably got via the Jalgaon - Udhna line (which is also highly
underutilized) for the Dahanu power plant.

Apurva

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions

Date: 16 Jun 1999 00:11:46 -0500


Hi All,
Those were some real good points made by Shankar and Ken.

I would like to point out here for the benefit of the readers(and the
prospective travellers who might have been a little put off by the
earlier
warnings!!) that photographing railways from non railway property is no
offence by any rules and you can stick up to it if hassled.

In my personal experience, just the simple trick of avoiding `khaki' and
other officials on stations will keep you at a safe distance from any
unforeseen problems. Also avoid big station. The next wayside
intermediate
station is your best bet from all points in view.
Lastly, on the many occasions that I have carried a permit, I have
rarely
been asked to produce it. The idea is not to overdo things and not get
carried away(even if you have a permit). The best thing is to ask the
in-charge(not RPF) politely and take your chances. Nine out of ten you
will
get away with most.
After all `glib & guile' do take you farther than most other methods.

Harsh

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Meeting at Morbi, 12/1/99

Date: 16 Jun 1999 00:29:33 -0500


This is someone I met at Morbi on the 12th Jan 99.

Apurva

From: Steven Brown <>

Subject: Re: California State Railroad Museum

Date: 16 Jun 1999 01:17:03 -0500


This may be almost off topic but there are a number of IRFCA members
here in
california, and preservation efforts here do serve as an example of what
can
be accomplished when volunteer efforts join with a public sector museum.
Anyway the websites
The Cailfornia State Railway Museum: <A HREF="http://www.csrmf.org/">http://www.csrmf.org/</A>
The Railfair running June 18-27 <A HREF="http://www.railfair.com/">http://www.railfair.com/</A>
-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
To: sank@telco.email <sank@telco.email
Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 11:33 PM
Subject: Re: California State Railroad Museum


>Jayant S wrote:
>>
>> Just received a set of photographs taken
>> at this Museum by a friend in Sacramento
>> along with a booklet.
>> The booklet is beautifully produced. Wish the
>> NRM could do something similar about the design
>> of its publicity material.
>>
>
>I live about 30 minutes train ride from this museum,
>am a member, etc.
>The museum itself is not, in my opinion, as well thought
>out as the NRM.
>
>They are having a RailFair next week. This is a once every
>10 years giant extravaganza. They've laid tracks in front of
>a stage, and will be bringing in dozens of steam engines to
>'perform'. I'm very, very excited about it.
>
>--
>Anniepoo
>Need loco motors?
><A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>
>

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: information

Date: 16 Jun 1999 01:19:25 -0500


Dear David and Royston,

Welcome to the group and we look forward to hearing your travel
experiences
in due course.

>opted to travel First Class non A/C. My wish was to enjoy the scenery
more
>effectively through the barred windows rather than via the yellow
tinted
>"portholes" in the A/C coaches. What I had not allowed for was the
lack of
>bedroll facilities and access to any food service. What should I have
done
>to ensure that I had a more comfortable journey? The coach was one of
the
>very early 1st class non air-conditioned Coupe with two berth
compartments
>and was thus showing its age!. Back in 1990 the compartments were also
non
>air conditioned but four berth which meant that I had more interesting
>travelling companions.

For 1st class coupe connoisseurs like you me and others, the bad news is
that
they are on the go now the 3AC coaches having been given preference
ahead of
them. In fact the last 1st class coach was built by IR over 25 years
back.
Very few trains have these now although I have heard about the possible
revival of this class in future. When the 1st class was on a high, you
had a
coach attendant who could get you things from platform or elsewhere for
a
small `baksheesh' . But these days hardly ever a ticket collector comes
into
the coaches and to top it these are poorly maintained.
The later standardised 1st class coaches had four four-berth coupes and
two
two-berth coupes although there were many other non-standard designs as
well
including a 1st/2nd class composite coach.

I was interested to hear about the railway that you are building but was
intrigued to hear about the 5'3" gauge(please, Iam no expert).
I will visit your website shortly and to answer your question, No, we do
not
have any private preservation lines in India so far. Though the first
thing
that I would guess is to save the rolling stock from butchers. We as
`Friends of the National Railway Museum Society' are involved in helping
the
IR do that.

For gauge conversion programme details, you can refer to IR yearbook
published annually. I don't think anyone will venture to write a book on
this subject as it has turned out to be `not such a big deal' after all.

Harsh

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film

Date: 16 Jun 1999 01:21:02 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:

> Before the WDS 4, this passenger used to hauled by a tender
> foremost
> WG. I remember the WG hauled morning passenger being hauled
> towards Khopoli in
> the valley floor while the Deccan Queen that I was on was
> descending
> the ghats at a much higher altitude.

This is not fair !!! I came to Pune in 1990, long
after this WG had gone !!! Anyway, I've seen steam
sights on NFR and WR too........

> No this was a real loco and a real train - I think it was HPS
> or HGS class. While a sleeper across the track = sure derailment in
> the real railway operation, this was an awful lot of risk they took
for
> making a film.
That's what is strange. Any impact that could make a HGS/HPS
sway on its springs has got to be one hell of a wallop.
Much safer to use styrofoam mockups of the logs......

> > There was a remarkable steam loco performance in "Pakeezah"
> > where the loco runs over Meena Kumari after she is caught
> > in a switch. Does anyone remember what loco type this was ?
> All I can say is - Good riddance !

Umm....do you mean good riddance to Meena Kumari, or the
loco ? Please note that she falls between the rails, and
the loco is reversed to rescue her.

--
JS
--

From: Dr. M S M Saifullah <>

Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions

Date: 16 Jun 1999 01:44:15 -0500


Hello!

>Lastly, on the many occasions that I have carried a permit, I have
rarely
>been asked to produce it. The idea is not to overdo things and not get
>carried away(even if you have a permit). The best thing is to ask the
>in-charge(not RPF) politely and take your chances. Nine out of ten you
will
>get away with most.

Where does one get this 'permit'?

Regards
Saifullah

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film

Date: 16 Jun 1999 02:12:31 -0500


> I don't recall ever seeing
> > freight train riders in India.
> >
>
> Well, the seriousness of it is questionable.
> The sites about it are, most of them, pretty ridiculous -
> a little like trying to learn about the Indian countryside
> by watching Bandit Queen.

The problem of pilferage of freight is quite serious on the IR. I
remember I was returning from Jammu Tawi to Pune on the Jhelum
Express many years ago and someone stole the batteries of the
coach while the train was moving slowly near Ludhiana !


To quote a non railway anecdote about pilferage - I have a project
running in the open cast coal mines at Singarauli in MP. Many of
the really heavy equipment in the mines is powered by 11 Kv
electric supply. Legend has it that the there are organised gang
of pilferers who steal the 11 Kv cable while it is live ! The
'advance party' of the marauders strikes the armoured (and made of
many many kilos of pure copper) cable snaking through the mine
area. The pickaxe strikes the copper core and caused a huge short
circuit. The person wielding the pickaxe invariably falls
unconscious due to the electric shock and the explosion. There is
a separate team who carries the unconscious person to safety (!).
The short circuit blows the fuse of the 11 Kv circuit and the
other team now proceeds to cut through the cable and cart it away.

I cannot vouch for the authenticity of this story but it was told
to me by two unrelated people at Singarauli.
People take ridiculous risk to steal, but this is something else.

Apurva

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: WG/Pakheezah

Date: 16 Jun 1999 02:50:26 -0500



> > This is not fair !!! I came to Pune in 1990, long
> > after this WG had gone !!! Anyway, I've seen steam
> > sights on NFR and WR too........
>
> The WG is before the 90s. Maybe 70s - 80s. That time we did
> not go ape at the
> sight of a WG.

I always did, myself. I grew up in Darjeeling and
was used to dimunitive trains as a child. I remember
coming down to NJP in 1975 for the first time, getting
awed at the sight of BG trackage, and then getting
thoroughly spooked by a WG as it came snorting and
hissing alongside: the SIZE was what was terrifying.
My best time with a WG was in 1986 at NJP when I
spent several hours in the cab all over the yard.
Still think it was a magnificient loco class.

> > Umm....do you mean good riddance to Meena Kumari, or the
> > loco ? Please note that she falls between the rails, and
> > the loco is reversed to rescue her.
>
> Not having seen the film, does the loco manage to run her
> over, or is is just
> in time ? In short does she suffer damage ?

If I remember correctly, she is unhurt, even though
the loco passes over her and stops, as she falls between
the rails. Come to think of it, shouldn't the cowcatcher
have scraped her ?

Anyway, she is rescued by Raj Kumar, who is on the train.

--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film

Date: 16 Jun 1999 02:54:45 -0500





> This is not fair !!! I came to Pune in 1990, long
> after this WG had gone !!! Anyway, I've seen steam
> sights on NFR and WR too........

The WG is before the 90s. Maybe 70s - 80s. That time we did
not go ape at the
sight of a WG.

> Umm....do you mean good riddance to Meena Kumari, or the
> loco ? Please note that she falls between the rails, and
> the loco is reversed to rescue her.

Not having seen the film, does the loco manage to run her
over, or is is just
in time ? In short does she suffer damage ?

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Trainhopping/Film

Date: 16 Jun 1999 02:58:56 -0500


. Does any one (has
> to be
> post middle age ?) remember the steam locos operating through
> Bhore
> and Thull ghats ? Viraf ?

As far as my childhood memories goes it always used to be those
beautiful
crocodiles banking my train up both the ghats.

By the way shall we have a list of all "Ghat Sections" on IR.

Viraf

From: Karthik Giddu <>

Subject: The most neglected trunk route

Date: 16 Jun 1999 03:39:30 -0500


Hi gang members,
The most neglected trunk route in IR is Mumbai-Chennai. The development over the last century will be now only fraction of what other trunk routes. The no of trains have remained static over 30-40 yrs while considering rapid growth in passengers in that section. Until last yr there was no pantrycar in any one the trains to Chennai.  
Around 65-75% of the route is single line. CR is the main culprit(Now work is going on for doubling Daund to sholapur). There are no double line after daund, no electrification after pune since 1920. Atleast the other rlys(SCR & SR) have done some improvemnt over their section. SR has completed electrified, used LWR and concrete sleepers. SCR is slowly doubling their section.
The train on the Mumbai-Chennai(1279 kms) take more time when compared to bombay-delhi(1384 kms) section. The fastest train takes 24 hrs(but never goes on time) whereas the fastest train on the Bombay-Delhi takes 17 hrs, ie covers more distance in less time(7 hrs less).
 
It will be well in to the next century that the Mumbai-Chennai route will improve.
 
Karthik
 

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: A Handful of snaps !!

Date: 16 Jun 1999 06:07:19 -0500


Yo Anand - Great effort. A tribute to the action at SC and MAS. I have
problems
with the text wrapping around the pictures - the last pic of the WAM 4
has
actually obsured the text. I would request you to place the text below
or above
the pic.
Is this all the pics ? Put up more soon. How about patawing the Basin
bridge
shed staff and maybe getting pics from there ? It can be done !

Apurva

Anand Krishnan wrote:

> Hi all,
> Just managed to put up a few of my snaps that i took during my
recent
> trip to Chennai. Comments/criticisms are welcome. The 16 commandments
for
> taking snaps that was put up in the list a couple of days back was
followed
> to a great extent. You could see it for urself at
> <A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/railweb/index.htm">http://members.xoom.com/railweb/index.htm</A>
>
> Kind regards,
> Anand
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

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