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From: Auroprem Kandaswami <>

Subject: Silly IR Question

Date: 11 Jun 1999 15:38:29 -0500



Hi gang,

Here are two interesting IR questions for our
"heavy-duty" club members:

1. Which Railway Zone (on IR) is spread across
or covers the maximum number of states
(let us include Union Territories also, if any)

Similarly, which Zone covers the minimum
number of states ?

2. Which State in India is covered under the maximum
number of Railway Zones ? Also, which states are
covered by a minimum number of Railway Zones?

Probably, we want to limit our discussions to the
9 Zones of Railway system - not including the 6 newer
zones.

Regards,
Auro

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Silly IR Question

Date: 12 Jun 1999 02:17:52 -0500




Auroprem Kandaswami wrote:

> Hi gang,
>
> Here are two interesting IR questions for our
> "heavy-duty" club members:
>
> 1. Which Railway Zone (on IR) is spread across
> or covers the maximum number of states
> (let us include Union Territories also, if any)
>
> Similarly, which Zone covers the minimum
> number of states ?
>
> 2. Which State in India is covered under the maximum
> number of Railway Zones ? Also, which states are
> covered by a minimum number of Railway Zones?

This is easy - HP and J & K are poorest from the railway point
of view. The state with the greatest density would be UP which
seems to have upto 5 lines across. I will have to go through
the TTs for the earlier question.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Website for electrification of VSKP

Date: 12 Jun 1999 02:24:33 -0500


Gang !

The Pune special section of Indian Express (Pune Newsline)
mysteriously contains a small ad from the railways announcing
the address of the website regarding the electrification of
Vishakhapatnam section. I had an inkling that the link would
not work, and it didn't. Maybe any of you could make it to the
correct address.
The address in the ad is: <A HREF="http://direct.at/cpm">http://direct.at/cpm</A> re vskp
The last part of the address looks very suspect with the
spaces, I have tried underscore and center dash as well but it
does not work.

Apurva

From: Karthik Giddu <>

Subject: Re: Website for electrification of VSKP

Date: 12 Jun 1999 07:37:54 -0500


The address is <A HREF="http://direct.at/cpmrevskp/">http://direct.at/cpmrevskp/</A>
The site is Hosted on angelfire.
Karthik
At 02:54 PM 6/12/99 +0530, Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>Gang !
>
>The Pune special section of Indian Express (Pune Newsline)
>mysteriously contains a small ad from the railways announcing
>the address of the website regarding the electrification of
>Vishakhapatnam section. I had an inkling that the link would
>not work, and it didn't. Maybe any of you could make it to the
>correct address.
>The address in the ad is: <A HREF="http://direct.at/cpm">http://direct.at/cpm</A> re vskp
>The last part of the address looks very suspect with the
>spaces, I have tried underscore and center dash as well but it
>does not work.
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Website for electrification of VSKP

Date: 12 Jun 1999 09:36:41 -0500

From: David Trotter <>

Subject: Re: information

Date: 12 Jun 1999 09:49:47 -0500


Hi Folks:
I, like Royston, have been benefiting from the wealth of knowledge
provided
by your Railfan Group. I visited India in 1990 and 1998 and am able to
enjoy some of the threads or stories which have been running over the
last
two months. I, also, consider his book to be essential for rail travel
in
India.
In particular references to the Calcutta Metro brings back a rather
painful memory. I failed to appreciate that photography on the Metro is
not
permitted so I suffered a setback when this was firmly pointed out to me
on
the platform at Tullygunge Station. To get out of the situation I was
in I
had to video the station wall to erase the offending sequence! On
another
occasion when I discovered a working steam crane being used in a wagon
repair depot I found that I should have come better prepared by
obtaining a
pass permitting the use of a camcorder and thus missed out on what would
have been a most interesting sequence. I spoke to the Depot Manager and
he
was very courteous and could not have been more helpful. The crane was
put
though all is movements and,even better, one end of a wagon was lifted
into
the air! Sadly I could not capture the event on video.
On a different subject I travelled out of Delhi Junction Station to
New
Jalpaiguri on my way to travel on the Darjeeling Mountain Railway having
opted to travel First Class non A/C. My wish was to enjoy the scenery
more
effectively through the barred windows rather than via the yellow tinted
"portholes" in the A/C coaches. What I had not allowed for was the lack
of
bedroll facilities and access to any food service. What should I have
done
to ensure that I had a more comfortable journey? The coach was one of
the
very early 1st class non air-conditioned Coupe with two berth
compartments
and was thus showing its age!. Back in 1990 the compartments were also
non
air conditioned but four berth which meant that I had more interesting
travelling companions.
In my world in Northern Ireland, having reached retirement age with
more
time available, I am involved in the construction of an operating
railway
museum. Currently I am involved with a very small team in laying a
turnout
or switch and then continuing to lay plain track using concrete
sleepers.
The track gauge, as some of you experts will know, is 5 feet 3 inches.
This
means that we have great difficulty getting suitable steam locomotives
and
currently are having to use small diesel shunting locomotives. Should
anyone be interested you can get more details from our Website:

www.uel.ac.uk/pers/1278/rly-pres/drm/drm.html
Does anyone know of anything similar being constructed in India i.e.
by
volunteers? In Northern Ireland we have the northern base of the
Railway
Preservation Society of Ireland which specialises in running steam
hauled
trains throughout Ireland. Has something similar been thought of for
India?

I look forward to reading your responses.

Best wishes for IFCA.

David Trotter
Another subject of interest to me is the regauging of the metre
gauge to
your broad gauge. Does anyone know of any articles or booklets on the
subject?
On my most recent visit I travelled with Butterfield's Indian
Railway
tour from Bombay to Rajasthan and Gujarat including reaching Jaisalmer.
It
was clear that many of the lines we travelled on had been recently
converted.
My visit to the Darjeeling Mountain Railway was more successful on
this
most recent trip. The first visit coincided with the terrible
landslides
which severed the railway and put its future in jeopardy.


----- Original Message -----
From: Royston Ellis <royston@panlanka.email
To: <irfca@cs.email
Sent: 09 June 1999 03:06
Subject: information


> I never realised when I signed up as a member three days ago that I
would
> get so much fascinating information from irfca members about Indian
> Railways. In my ignorance I e-mailed member Anand directly to ask what
the
> letters WD etc represented and he has enlightened me and suggested I
> introduce myself to members and send e-mails to the list not
individuals.
> Thanks Anand.
>
> My interest in railways is as a rail travel writer. I wrote <India By
Rail>
> published in UK & USA as well as in German and French editions; the
last
> edition came out in 1997 so it needs updating. I also wrote <Sri Lanka
By
> Rail>.
>
> I'm looking forward to reading the e-mails members send each other:
they
> are certainly broadening my own outlook!
>
> Royston Ellis
>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Website for electrification of VSKP

Date: 12 Jun 1999 10:04:51 -0500


Hello.
Thanks for a very interesting site.

Incidentally, the initial link not working: I had a similar experience.
True to its tradition, the Jan '99 issue of the IR mag did not reach me
at all. (The one Apurva said had a dmu on the cover).
I received the Feb/Mar. issue the day before.
In that, htere is an article: Website on Railway Electrification
Launched:, and then the article states: 'you can view the website at
www.del/core
I've been trying this website since then, but it always shows an error.
'No url found' or something like that.
Best regards
Shankar


Karthik Giddu wrote:
>
> The address is <A HREF="http://direct.at/cpmrevskp/">http://direct.at/cpmrevskp/</A>
> The site is Hosted on angelfire.
> Karthik
> At 02:54 PM 6/12/99 +0530, Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >Gang !
> >
> >The Pune special section of Indian Express (Pune Newsline)
> >mysteriously contains a small ad from the railways announcing
> >the address of the website regarding the electrification of
> >Vishakhapatnam section. I had an inkling that the link would
> >not work, and it didn't. Maybe any of you could make it to the
> >correct address.
> >The address in the ad is: <A HREF="http://direct.at/cpm">http://direct.at/cpm</A> re vskp
> >The last part of the address looks very suspect with the
> >spaces, I have tried underscore and center dash as well but it
> >does not work.
> >
> >Apurva
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Photography...

Date: 12 Jun 1999 11:59:02 -0500


Hello Dr. Saifullah,

Considering that you have your own website, hence you are an experienced
photographer yourself, I don't think any of us can really contribute
much by way of tips.
At any rate, things were a lot different when we were younger: Apurva
will second that: readiness to climb onto engines, approach and ask,
befriend staff and then shoot etc etc. With middle age, you are at times
even hesitant to pull out your camera in the middle of a crowd and shoot
freely!
And we have super train nuts like Sundar Krishnamurthy who leave the
train, jump the line and walk to the far end of a train on hte next
track, only to return to catch their own train as it slowly inches away!

Anyway some of the ground rules I have always followed are:

1. Never use an SLR or a tripod at stations to avoid being hassled.
An instant pocketable compact with zoom is the best bet.The Olympus
myu series fits the bill perfectly due to its dimunitive size.

2. Flash is another no-no.

3. Avoid anyone in khakhi. Employees are usually happy to be
photographed, but its the RPF jawans you need to avoid. Most of them
are stone headed and absolute idiots, who cannot understand that
shooting trains can also be a hobby.

4. To avoid trouble, better to stick to the lineside rather than shoot
at the stations themselves. At any rate, on-the-run shots are more
interesting.

5. Nontheless, at stations, good vantage points are: from the foot
overbridge,from an empty train standing alongside (don't hang in
too long though), behind a reservation chart, from behind a
pillar etc etc.

7. A little away from the station, looking for a place to pee is a good
excuse to pretend, then turn round and shoot quickly.

8. Unless you have that permit from Rail Bhavan, you will be shooting on
the sly, like I ALWAYS do.
Grease Lightning is the key. Speed. You must move quickly, pull your
camera out fast, shoot in a jiffy and pocket it back in an instant.
Don't flash your camera around.

9. Never mind shots going bad. Most of the jiffy shots do turn out good.

10.Develop your skills in photographing from moving trains and things.
You will get many many more shots that way.
Its quite simple really, just keep following the object in your
viewfinder, and then click at one point. Most modern compacts can
deliver even under such circumstances.

11. If you are shooting at a station, you can always have a friend or
assistant pretend to pose for you in front of an engine or
something. Pretend to shoot him, but shoot the engine instead!

12. Sometimes, shooting in the confusion when a train is pulling into a
station makes a terrific shot. Especially at dusk, if you stand at
the end of the platform. The train pulling in with headlight on
will yield a winner. Turn the flash off,and as usual, speed is the
key.

13. If you are videoing, make sure you are either inside the train, or
on the lineside. Only touristy stations like Neral or Ooty might
look the other way when someone flashes a camcorder.But video has
another advantage: unless you spend too much time in one place, the
cam makes no noise, no flash, no reloading film.Worst comes to worst,
you can always pretend to be checking the battery or tape!

14.Having a partner really helps: he/she keeps watch while you shoot,or
covers you.

15. Don't even vaguely point your camera at loco sheds, railway
workshops and things unless you enjoy being arrested. Most of these
places display a board prohibiting photography anyway.
Approaching will earn you a very warm welcome, you might even be
shown around, but just look at the expressions change when you take
out your camera!
If you must shoot sheds and workshops, do it from a moving train. I
have shot a few pictures of loco sheds while on the run. Which is why
I said first: develop your skills of shooting from moving trains.

16. Try all sorts of views, with the safety precautions mentioned above:
(unless you intend actually applying for a permit): full front, side,
angular, along the side, from above (foot overbridge, remember?),
between cars,distant,etc.etc. Use 200 or 400 ISO film, be very quick
to
pull out and put in your camera, and don't be obsessed with shots
getting spoilt!

Hope that helps.

PS: I ventured to post such a long message as most of our guys are on
vacation: its the slack season!

Best regards.

Shankar






Dr. M S M Saifullah wrote:
>
> Hello everyone!
>
> Has anyone got tips about good photography of the trains?
>
> Also I have just got my site ready at
>
> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/">http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/</A>
>
> It does not have any pictures of the Indian Railways yet. They will be
> captured and scanned in the due course of time. But you are always
welcome
> to browse through my burgeoning collection of pictures of Japan
Railways.
>
> Regards,
> Saifullah
>
> Dr. M S M Saifullah, Researcher
> Nanostructure Technology Research Group
> Device Physics Research Laboratory
> NTT Basic Research Laboratories
> 3-1, Morinosato Wakamiya, Atsugi-shi
> Kanagawa Pref., 243-0198
> Japan
>
> Email: saif@aecl.email Tel: 0081 (0)462 40 2634
> Fax: 0081 (0)462 40 4317

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions

Date: 12 Jun 1999 18:55:02 -0500


Dear Shankar, Dr. Saifullah, and all,
Shankar's advice is fairly good if you are prepared to accept the
limitations of one of those baby cameras. If you have proper gear, it
can be
a bitch.
I've been taking pictures of IR subjects since 1970, on and off. I
learnt early that photography around stations and other "sensitive"
sites
was subject to Railway Board (and often regional railway Head Office)
permission, and that interpretations of the rules varied enormously --
from
the RPF noncom who would not permit me to take photos with footbridges
in
them (bridges are "sensitive") to the rakshak at Trichy who encouraged
me to
shoot an arriving MG train on the Cauvery bridge, from the top of the
Rock
Fort! In 1973 I actually had to have an RPF escort wherever I went.
Oddly,
there were some benefits -- notably, that anything you were allowed to
take
was secure from interference. I do remember a wonderful argument at
Sarai
Rohilla loco, though, between an RPF wallah who didn't want me to take
pictures of engines under repair with their wheels dropped, and a loco
foreman who was trying patiently to explain that ALL railways have to
maintain their steam power!
The big problem lies right at the top, at Railway Board level,
because
the present regulations were written in the dark ages, and have never
been
revised. The ban on movies and videos seems to date to the days of 35mm,
when permission to clutter the place up with tripods and lights would
only
be given against large indemnity payments, etc. (This still applies to
commecial film-makers, by the way). When Anuj Dayal (now with Delhi
Metro)
was in the DDPR's office, there was some attempt made to change this,
but
unfortunately it failed. Dayal's clarifications backfired, in fact,
because
the permit (a form letter) was revised to explicitly ban movie and
video.
That has been a confounded nuisance in recent years, except with highly
cooperative SMs and shedmasters (some are -- and are very civilised
about
it. Try SM Coonoor, e.g.). Shankar is quite right that lineside and
"on-the-run" shots can be great, but some station and shed coverage is
nice
to have.
The other thing about Railway Board, especially before and since
Anuj
Dayal, is that they don't answer their correspondence. Most of my trips
have
begun in Delhi (often at extra cost) because on only one occasion in the
last 19 years have a received a permit by mail, in time for my departure
from home. Every other time I have had to charge down to Rail Bhavan and
shake some lazy twerp by the neck (politely, of course!).
I also suspect that the military and police, who never do their
homework, think that video cameras are some sort of
super-high-resolution
gimmick ideally suited to spying, and don't appreciate that the
resolution
is far worse than with ordinary 35mm stills. They'd be better off trying
to
shoot down satellites with the rakshaks' rifles.
The military also whacked a total ban on photography along the
Darjeeling line after the China war in 1962; to this day, you can't get
a
permit. That particular ban must be one of the most ridiculous ever
imposed,
given the vast number of pictures taken over practically every inch of
the
line.
Now, if the Indian Government really want to encourage foreign
tourism,
then they have to think about this one carefully, because it has already
harmed them. It's true that, particularly during the 1990s, there were
hordes of permit-less Poms (that's Brits) roaming the system. But the
bureaucratic hassles must have put off just as many, just as the touts
and
taxi-drivers do. Other places -- one is often told -- are cleaner and
far
more hassle-free. The recent inflation in hotel prices means that India
isn't even cheaper any more. All this means less valauble foreign
currency
coming into the country.
With the operation in future of only a handful of steam trains,
mostly
on preserved lines likes Darjeeling and Ooty, or over selected toutes
like
Delhi-Alwar, Railways need to think very carefully about their
restrictions.
The best option would be to follow the German Railways (DB) and
encourage
photography from any place open to the public, such as platforms and
bridges, while discouraging trespass. On tourist lines, or those with
substantial tourist traffic, a more open regime is quite essential.
Sorry, all, if this sounds like a re-hash. I know this topic has
come
up before, but, like preservation and some other issues, it's not going
to
go away.
In the meantime, if you like nice long takes, with the engine
working
hard, or the train disappearing romantically into the remote distance,
you
have to work well away from stations and their bureaucrats. However, we
did
very well at Ketti recently, where the SM is a real gopher, by shooting
from
up on the road. Some lines have some very good topside locations, and
thse
can be exploited to great advantage. Good scenic stuff, too.
Happy shooting, Dr. Saifullah
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
To: Dr. M S M Saifullah <saif@aecl.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Sunday, 13 June 1999 5:21
Subject: Re: Photography...


>Hello Dr. Saifullah,
>
>Considering that you have your own website, hence you are an
experienced
>photographer yourself, I don't think any of us can really contribute
>much by way of tips.
>At any rate, things were a lot different when we were younger: Apurva
>will second that: readiness to climb onto engines, approach and ask,
>befriend staff and then shoot etc etc. With middle age, you are at
times
>even hesitant to pull out your camera in the middle of a crowd and
shoot
>freely!
>And we have super train nuts like Sundar Krishnamurthy who leave the
>train, jump the line and walk to the far end of a train on hte next
>track, only to return to catch their own train as it slowly inches
away!
>
>Anyway some of the ground rules I have always followed are:
>
>1. Never use an SLR or a tripod at stations to avoid being hassled.
> An instant pocketable compact with zoom is the best bet.The Olympus
> myu series fits the bill perfectly due to its dimunitive size.
>
>2. Flash is another no-no.
>
>3. Avoid anyone in khakhi. Employees are usually happy to be
> photographed, but its the RPF jawans you need to avoid. Most of them
> are stone headed and absolute idiots, who cannot understand that
> shooting trains can also be a hobby.
>
>4. To avoid trouble, better to stick to the lineside rather than shoot
> at the stations themselves. At any rate, on-the-run shots are more
> interesting.
>
>5. Nontheless, at stations, good vantage points are: from the foot
>overbridge,from an empty train standing alongside (don't hang in
>too long though), behind a reservation chart, from behind a
>pillar etc etc.
>
>7. A little away from the station, looking for a place to pee is a good
> excuse to pretend, then turn round and shoot quickly.
>
>8. Unless you have that permit from Rail Bhavan, you will be shooting
on
> the sly, like I ALWAYS do.
> Grease Lightning is the key. Speed. You must move quickly, pull your
> camera out fast, shoot in a jiffy and pocket it back in an instant.
> Don't flash your camera around.
>
>9. Never mind shots going bad. Most of the jiffy shots do turn out
good.
>
>10.Develop your skills in photographing from moving trains and things.
> You will get many many more shots that way.
> Its quite simple really, just keep following the object in your
> viewfinder, and then click at one point. Most modern compacts can
> deliver even under such circumstances.
>
>11. If you are shooting at a station, you can always have a friend or
> assistant pretend to pose for you in front of an engine or
>something. Pretend to shoot him, but shoot the engine instead!
>
>12. Sometimes, shooting in the confusion when a train is pulling into a
> station makes a terrific shot. Especially at dusk, if you stand at
> the end of the platform. The train pulling in with headlight on
> will yield a winner. Turn the flash off,and as usual, speed is the
> key.
>
>13. If you are videoing, make sure you are either inside the train, or
> on the lineside. Only touristy stations like Neral or Ooty might
> look the other way when someone flashes a camcorder.But video has
> another advantage: unless you spend too much time in one place, the
> cam makes no noise, no flash, no reloading film.Worst comes to
worst,
> you can always pretend to be checking the battery or tape!
>
>14.Having a partner really helps: he/she keeps watch while you shoot,or
> covers you.
>
>15. Don't even vaguely point your camera at loco sheds, railway
>workshops and things unless you enjoy being arrested. Most of these
> places display a board prohibiting photography anyway.
> Approaching will earn you a very warm welcome, you might even be
> shown around, but just look at the expressions change when you take
> out your camera!
> If you must shoot sheds and workshops, do it from a moving train. I
> have shot a few pictures of loco sheds while on the run. Which is
why
> I said first: develop your skills of shooting from moving trains.
>
>16. Try all sorts of views, with the safety precautions mentioned
above:
> (unless you intend actually applying for a permit): full front,
side,
> angular, along the side, from above (foot overbridge, remember?),
> between cars,distant,etc.etc. Use 200 or 400 ISO film, be very quick
>to
> pull out and put in your camera, and don't be obsessed with shots
> getting spoilt!
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>PS: I ventured to post such a long message as most of our guys are on
>vacation: its the slack season!
>
>Best regards.
>
>Shankar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Dr. M S M Saifullah wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone!
>>
>> Has anyone got tips about good photography of the trains?
>>
>> Also I have just got my site ready at
>>
>> <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/">http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/</A>
>>
>> It does not have any pictures of the Indian Railways yet. They will
be
>> captured and scanned in the due course of time. But you are always
welcome
>> to browse through my burgeoning collection of pictures of Japan
Railways.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Saifullah
>>
>> Dr. M S M Saifullah, Researcher
>> Nanostructure Technology Research Group
>> Device Physics Research Laboratory
>> NTT Basic Research Laboratories
>> 3-1, Morinosato Wakamiya, Atsugi-shi
>> Kanagawa Pref., 243-0198
>> Japan
>>
>> Email: saif@aecl.email Tel: 0081 (0)462 40 2634
>> Fax: 0081 (0)462 40 4317
>

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Photography

Date: 12 Jun 1999 19:53:07 -0500


Shanker and list,

What is the reason for the photography restrictions by the gov. anyways.
It seems rather silly, but there must be some intentions.

Tim

From: Larry Russell <>

Subject: Re: Photography...

Date: 12 Jun 1999 21:18:26 -0500


A comment from my trip to India might be in order... I did ask for
permission
in Mumbai and recieved it. However, in conversation with the head of PR,
he
informed me that it was not against the law to photograph from station
platforms. I, indeed, found this to be true and was never hassled (of
course, I
am a foreigner and less likely to be bothered by self appointed
"gaurdians")
The RPF only accosted me when I wandered into the shop area and even
then I
emerged unscathed... (don't expect that to be the rule however)
The smaller stations are less likely to be a problem, and we wandered at
will
in Ahmedabad and Varanasi. I had 3 SLR's and a large format camera with
me and
the only attraction I found was from the ever present beggars and street
urchins.
Larry

Shankar wrote:

> Hello Dr. Saifullah,
>
> Considering that you have your own website, hence you are an
experienced
> photographer yourself, I don't think any of us can really contribute
> much by way of tips.
> At any rate, things were a lot different when we were younger: Apurva
> will second that: readiness to climb onto engines, approach and ask,
> befriend staff and then shoot etc etc. With middle age, you are at
times
> even hesitant to pull out your camera in the middle of a crowd and
shoot
> freely!
> And we have super train nuts like Sundar Krishnamurthy who leave the
> train, jump the line and walk to the far end of a train on hte next
> track, only to return to catch their own train as it slowly inches
away!
>
> Anyway some of the ground rules I have always followed are:
>
> 1. Never use an SLR or a tripod at stations to avoid being hassled.
> An instant pocketable compact with zoom is the best bet.The Olympus
> myu series fits the bill perfectly due to its dimunitive size.
>
> 2. Flash is another no-no.
>
> 3. Avoid anyone in khakhi. Employees are usually happy to be
> photographed, but its the RPF jawans you need to avoid. Most of
them
> are stone headed and absolute idiots, who cannot understand that
> shooting trains can also be a hobby.
>
> 4. To avoid trouble, better to stick to the lineside rather than shoot
> at the stations themselves. At any rate, on-the-run shots are more
> interesting.
>
> 5. Nontheless, at stations, good vantage points are: from the foot
> overbridge,from an empty train standing alongside (don't hang in
> too long though), behind a reservation chart, from behind a
> pillar etc etc.
>
> 7. A little away from the station, looking for a place to pee is a
good
> excuse to pretend, then turn round and shoot quickly.
>
> 8. Unless you have that permit from Rail Bhavan, you will be shooting
on
> the sly, like I ALWAYS do.
> Grease Lightning is the key. Speed. You must move quickly, pull
your
> camera out fast, shoot in a jiffy and pocket it back in an instant.
> Don't flash your camera around.
>
> 9. Never mind shots going bad. Most of the jiffy shots do turn out
good.
>
> 10.Develop your skills in photographing from moving trains and things.
> You will get many many more shots that way.
> Its quite simple really, just keep following the object in your
> viewfinder, and then click at one point. Most modern compacts can
> deliver even under such circumstances.
>
> 11. If you are shooting at a station, you can always have a friend or
> assistant pretend to pose for you in front of an engine or
> something. Pretend to shoot him, but shoot the engine instead!
>
> 12. Sometimes, shooting in the confusion when a train is pulling into
a
> station makes a terrific shot. Especially at dusk, if you stand at
> the end of the platform. The train pulling in with headlight on
> will yield a winner. Turn the flash off,and as usual, speed is the
> key.
>
> 13. If you are videoing, make sure you are either inside the train, or
> on the lineside. Only touristy stations like Neral or Ooty might
> look the other way when someone flashes a camcorder.But video has
> another advantage: unless you spend too much time in one place, the
> cam makes no noise, no flash, no reloading film.Worst comes to
worst,
> you can always pretend to be checking the battery or tape!
>
> 14.Having a partner really helps: he/she keeps watch while you
shoot,or
> covers you.
>
> 15. Don't even vaguely point your camera at loco sheds, railway
> workshops and things unless you enjoy being arrested. Most of
these
> places display a board prohibiting photography anyway.
> Approaching will earn you a very warm welcome, you might even be
> shown around, but just look at the expressions change when you take
> out your camera!
> If you must shoot sheds and workshops, do it from a moving train. I
> have shot a few pictures of loco sheds while on the run. Which is
why
> I said first: develop your skills of shooting from moving trains.
>
> 16. Try all sorts of views, with the safety precautions mentioned
above:
> (unless you intend actually applying for a permit): full front,
side,
> angular, along the side, from above (foot overbridge, remember?),
> between cars,distant,etc.etc. Use 200 or 400 ISO film, be very
quick
> to
> pull out and put in your camera, and don't be obsessed with shots
> getting spoilt!
>
> Hope that helps.
>
> PS: I ventured to post such a long message as most of our guys are on
> vacation: its the slack season!
>
> Best regards.
>
> Shankar
>
> Dr. M S M Saifullah wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > Has anyone got tips about good photography of the trains?
> >
> > Also I have just got my site ready at
> >
> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/">http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/</A>
> >
> > It does not have any pictures of the Indian Railways yet. They will
be
> > captured and scanned in the due course of time. But you are always
welcome
> > to browse through my burgeoning collection of pictures of Japan
Railways.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Saifullah
> >
> > Dr. M S M Saifullah, Researcher
> > Nanostructure Technology Research Group
> > Device Physics Research Laboratory
> > NTT Basic Research Laboratories
> > 3-1, Morinosato Wakamiya, Atsugi-shi
> > Kanagawa Pref., 243-0198
> > Japan
> >
> > Email: saif@aecl.email Tel: 0081 (0)462 40 2634
> > Fax: 0081 (0)462 40 4317

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: Photography -- and idiot restrictions

Date: 13 Jun 1999 07:54:31 -0500


Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
> I also suspect that the military and police, who never do their
> homework, think that video cameras are some sort of
super-high-resolution
> gimmick ideally suited to spying, and don't appreciate that the
resolution
> is far worse than with ordinary 35mm stills. They'd be better off
trying to
> shoot down satellites with the rakshaks' rifles.

Hello everyone,

While departing Madras on one trip, I gave my camera bag for the police
at customs to check. I had a Canon Hi-8 ES2000 video camera that can
record almost TV quality. It is also very small and can fit into the
palm of a hand. They looked at it and asked about it.I told them what it
was,and they laughed.My wife said they were telling each other that this
is just a toy and would be impossible to use.Then they took out my 300mm
zoom lens for my 35mm outfit.They tried to attatch it to the video
camera and said to each other,(in Tamil),the this was how the video
camera works! They handed me all of my stuff and said to have a nice
journey.


all the best, Tim

From: Roger G. Morris <>

Subject: Darjeeling loco models

Date: 13 Jun 1999 14:43:51 -0500


Not sure if anybody else has mentioned it on the list but a range of
etched brass kits for the C Class pacific, the Garratt and the Class B
tank engine are due to start coming on line from Backwoods Miniatures
next year. No e-mail address known but full address, phone, etc.
available if required. (Usual disclaimer - nothing to do with me)

I just happened to bump into the owner, Peter McParlin, at a model
railway exhibition today - on a stand dealing with US narrow gauge, of
all things - and we got talking. One item of interest about his own
standards - he is concerned about the available weight in OO9 so is
intending to have a cast whitemetal, 5 man, crew packed with the B to
help with traction. Smart thinking.

Another etched brass manufacturer of his acquaintance is preparing a
range of matching coaching stock so keep a look out - exciting times
ahead! (I was drooling over an exquisite model of a South African NGG16
2-6-2 + 2-6-2 Garratt - complete kit, which has to be seen to be
believed, retails at 160 pounds, UK; not cheap but I could change to NG
modelling for it alone. With the B coming, as well .......)

--
Roger G. Morris

From: Mike Brooker <>

Subject: Justice IR style!

Date: 13 Jun 1999 19:57:58 -0500


Is it any wonder why tourists and others have been advised to avoid travelling in Bihar?  I found the following item on the Times of India web site.  "1PG" is an unusual number for a train, no?
 
Passengers lynch four criminals
 
               PATNA: An irate mob of passengers on Friday lynched four
               criminals who were looting the passengers on 1 Patna-Gaya
               (1PG) at Punpun station.
 
               The 1PG train running on Patna-Gaya section had left Patna
               Junction at 6.40 a.m. The moment the train left Patna Junction,
               the four criminals started looting the passengers in a compartment
               at gun point. Having heard the hue and cry, the passengers of the
               adjacent compartments rushed to the spot and managed to outdo
               the four robbers. They beat up the criminals severely killing them
               on the spot.
 
               Two of the criminals killed were identified as Dina Sao and
               Kashi, while the identity of two other criminals could not be
               ascertained. The bodies of the criminals were handed over to the
               Jehanabad GRP. The 1 PG, however, was detained at
               Jehanabad station by the GRP for two hours to complete the
               procedures following the lynching of the criminals.
 
********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON  M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406

From: Nitin Joshi <>

Subject: Re: Justice IR style!

Date: 13 Jun 1999 20:54:31 -0500


Correct me if I am wrong, but the IR has been using the first character of the city names
between which the train operates. Hence 1PG (P=Patna, G=Gaya). This practice seems
to be more in vogue on the Northern and Eastern Railways of the Indian Railway network.
Another example that comes to mind is: 1KS (Kalka - Simla) passenger.
 
Nitin Joshi
Mississauga ON L5R 3K9

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brooker <mailto:aum108@idirect.email
To: Indian Railway Fan Club <mailto:irfca@cs.email
Sent: 13.June.99 22:57
Subject: Justice IR style!

Is it any wonder why tourists and others have been advised to avoid travelling in Bihar?  I found the following item on the Times of India web site.  "1PG" is an unusual number for a train, no?
 
Passengers lynch four criminals
 
               PATNA: An irate mob of passengers on Friday lynched four
               criminals who were looting the passengers on 1 Patna-Gaya
               (1PG) at Punpun station.
 
               The 1PG train running on Patna-Gaya section had left Patna
               Junction at 6.40 a.m. The moment the train left Patna Junction,
               the four criminals started looting the passengers in a compartment
               at gun point. Having heard the hue and cry, the passengers of the
               adjacent compartments rushed to the spot and managed to outdo
               the four robbers. They beat up the criminals severely killing them
               on the spot.
 
               Two of the criminals killed were identified as Dina Sao and
               Kashi, while the identity of two other criminals could not be
               ascertained. The bodies of the criminals were handed over to the
               Jehanabad GRP. The 1 PG, however, was detained at
               Jehanabad station by the GRP for two hours to complete the
               procedures following the lynching of the criminals.
 
********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON  M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************

From: John Lacey <>

Subject: Re: Justice IR style!

Date: 14 Jun 1999 00:29:49 -0500


While I hope the events are " unusual", the train number is not. Many
shorter distance passenger trains are identified by a combination of the
initial letters of the stations concerned and a number, in this case
train 1 Patna-Gaya. The 1991 Eastern Railway timetable shows trains 1PG
3PG 5PG 7PG and 9PG running between Patna and Gaya together with 349
Mixed and 4 expresses with 4 digit numbers.. Interestingly, trains in
the oposite direction are 2PG 4PG and so on, rather than GP.
Back in 1980 some Madras area local trains had the prefix E to indicate
( presumably) electric train while on the SCR there was the wonderful
steam worked Secunderabad suburban system which used a combination of
variable letters before the running number. The number increased with
each new train regardless of the destination.eg SF 67 departed
Secunderabad at 12.15,SF 69 at 12.55 for Falaknuma while SU71 at 13.25
was one of only 5 suburban trains to run as far as Umdanagar.
Some branch lines had all their train services indicated by letters+
numbers, while other lines had all passengers indicated thus, with one
or more daily express trains carrying number and name. Other lines had
numbers only.
Indian Railway timetables can be as varied as the railways themselves !

John Lacey

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: Photography...

Date: 14 Jun 1999 02:24:12 -0500


Hi all,
Shankar !! that was an exhaustive list. Well , when i put up my
4-5
snaps that i took 2 weeks back, you'll clearly see that i have followed
atleast 13 of your 16 rules. You are an experienced hand at this !!! I
bet....

Kind regards,
Anand


>From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
>Reply-To: shankie@emirates.email
>To: "Dr. M S M Saifullah" <saif@aecl.email
>CC: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Photography...
>Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 22:59:02 +0400
>
>Hello Dr. Saifullah,
>
>Considering that you have your own website, hence you are an
experienced
>photographer yourself, I don't think any of us can really contribute
>much by way of tips.
>At any rate, things were a lot different when we were younger: Apurva
>will second that: readiness to climb onto engines, approach and ask,
>befriend staff and then shoot etc etc. With middle age, you are at
times
>even hesitant to pull out your camera in the middle of a crowd and
shoot
>freely!
>And we have super train nuts like Sundar Krishnamurthy who leave the
>train, jump the line and walk to the far end of a train on hte next
>track, only to return to catch their own train as it slowly inches
away!
>
>Anyway some of the ground rules I have always followed are:
>
>1. Never use an SLR or a tripod at stations to avoid being hassled.
> An instant pocketable compact with zoom is the best bet.The Olympus
> myu series fits the bill perfectly due to its dimunitive size.
>
>2. Flash is another no-no.
>
>3. Avoid anyone in khakhi. Employees are usually happy to be
> photographed, but its the RPF jawans you need to avoid. Most of
them
> are stone headed and absolute idiots, who cannot understand that
> shooting trains can also be a hobby.
>
>4. To avoid trouble, better to stick to the lineside rather than shoot
> at the stations themselves. At any rate, on-the-run shots are more
> interesting.
>
>5. Nontheless, at stations, good vantage points are: from the foot
>overbridge,from an empty train standing alongside (don't hang in
>too long though), behind a reservation chart, from behind a
>pillar etc etc.
>
>7. A little away from the station, looking for a place to pee is a good
> excuse to pretend, then turn round and shoot quickly.
>
>8. Unless you have that permit from Rail Bhavan, you will be shooting
on
> the sly, like I ALWAYS do.
> Grease Lightning is the key. Speed. You must move quickly, pull
your
> camera out fast, shoot in a jiffy and pocket it back in an instant.
> Don't flash your camera around.
>
>9. Never mind shots going bad. Most of the jiffy shots do turn out
good.
>
>10.Develop your skills in photographing from moving trains and things.
> You will get many many more shots that way.
> Its quite simple really, just keep following the object in your
> viewfinder, and then click at one point. Most modern compacts can
> deliver even under such circumstances.
>
>11. If you are shooting at a station, you can always have a friend or
> assistant pretend to pose for you in front of an engine or
>something. Pretend to shoot him, but shoot the engine instead!
>
>12. Sometimes, shooting in the confusion when a train is pulling into a
> station makes a terrific shot. Especially at dusk, if you stand at
> the end of the platform. The train pulling in with headlight on
> will yield a winner. Turn the flash off,and as usual, speed is the
> key.
>
>13. If you are videoing, make sure you are either inside the train, or
> on the lineside. Only touristy stations like Neral or Ooty might
> look the other way when someone flashes a camcorder.But video has
> another advantage: unless you spend too much time in one place, the
> cam makes no noise, no flash, no reloading film.Worst comes to
worst,
> you can always pretend to be checking the battery or tape!
>
>14.Having a partner really helps: he/she keeps watch while you shoot,or
> covers you.
>
>15. Don't even vaguely point your camera at loco sheds, railway
>workshops and things unless you enjoy being arrested. Most of these
> places display a board prohibiting photography anyway.
> Approaching will earn you a very warm welcome, you might even be
> shown around, but just look at the expressions change when you take
> out your camera!
> If you must shoot sheds and workshops, do it from a moving train. I
> have shot a few pictures of loco sheds while on the run. Which is
why
> I said first: develop your skills of shooting from moving trains.
>
>16. Try all sorts of views, with the safety precautions mentioned
above:
> (unless you intend actually applying for a permit): full front,
side,
> angular, along the side, from above (foot overbridge, remember?),
> between cars,distant,etc.etc. Use 200 or 400 ISO film, be very
quick
>to
> pull out and put in your camera, and don't be obsessed with shots
> getting spoilt!
>
>Hope that helps.
>
>PS: I ventured to post such a long message as most of our guys are on
>vacation: its the slack season!
>
>Best regards.
>
>Shankar
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Dr. M S M Saifullah wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone!
> >
> > Has anyone got tips about good photography of the trains?
> >
> > Also I have just got my site ready at
> >
> > <A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/">http://www.geocities.com/Baja/Mesa/7368/</A>
> >
> > It does not have any pictures of the Indian Railways yet. They will
be
> > captured and scanned in the due course of time. But you are always
>welcome
> > to browse through my burgeoning collection of pictures of Japan
>Railways.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Saifullah
> >
> > Dr. M S M Saifullah, Researcher
> > Nanostructure Technology Research Group
> > Device Physics Research Laboratory
> > NTT Basic Research Laboratories
> > 3-1, Morinosato Wakamiya, Atsugi-shi
> > Kanagawa Pref., 243-0198
> > Japan
> >
> > Email: saif@aecl.email Tel: 0081 (0)462 40 2634
> > Fax: 0081 (0)462 40 4317


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Justice IR style!

Date: 14 Jun 1999 09:35:27 -0500


A couple of my sisters in the community were going to
go bless babies along the w bengal/bihar border. They
told me I couldn't go with them. I think I see why now! =8^X

--
Anniepoo
Need loco motors?
<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/depot/motors.html</A>

From: Mike Brooker <>

Subject: Re: Justice IR style!

Date: 14 Jun 1999 18:52:51 -0500



>While I hope the events are " unusual", the train number is not. Many
>shorter distance passenger trains are identified by a combination of
the
>initial letters of the stations concerned and a number, in this case
>train 1 Patna-Gaya. The 1991 Eastern Railway timetable shows trains 1PG
>3PG 5PG 7PG and 9PG running between Patna and Gaya together with 349
>Mixed and 4 expresses with 4 digit numbers.. Interestingly, trains in
>the oposite direction are 2PG 4PG and so on, rather than GP.
>

Thanks for this information. Now I recall that the local milk-run
"passenger" train I took between Haridwar and Rishikesh bore a
numeric-alpha
number such as above, in this case 1HR, 2HR, etc. I think there were 3
or 4
such trains a day between the two tirthas.

I didn't note the number of the narrow-gauge train I took between
Kayavarohan and Dabhoi, Gujarat, or the meter-gauge between Vrindavan
and
Mathura, but they also may have been letter/number combos.

I did contemplate visiting Buddha's birthplace in Gaya, but decided
(wisely,
I would say!!) against travelling in Bihar. However, I did get to the
Buddhist shrine in Sarnath. Rode on another "passenger" train between
Varanasi and Sarnath, but once again I don't recall the number.

********************************************************************
Mike Brooker
99 Wychcrest Ave.,
Toronto, ON M6G 3X8
CANADA
(416) 536-7406
********************************************************************

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Intermediate Block Section

Date: 15 Jun 1999 02:10:46 -0500


Gang !

What is an Intermediate Block Section or IBS ? Typically these
are signals in the middle of a long section like Neral -
Karjat. Who controls these signals and why are they required ?

Apurva

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