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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 29 May 1999 03:01:20 -0500




>
>
> That lamp is there to illuminate the passage between units. Keep in
> mind that, other than in shunting duty, a unit working by itself here
is
> the exception rather than the rule. That light is actually a bit
> irrelevant as all crewmen at night carry a light anyway, which itself
is
> always lit.

That lead to the question about how often do the American crew cross
onto
neighboring locos while on the run. On the IR, I do not think any crew
would
cross to the other loco while on the run. In any case the only locos
that
would allow crossing is the WDM 2/ WDG 2. The AC freight locos WAG 5 etc
have no door for jumping locos and hence the crew remains in one cab.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Track through Rajaji National Park

Date: 29 May 1999 05:00:04 -0500


I feel that trains are killing machines for the wildlife in it's path. I
remember
footplating a WDM 2 between Satara and Pune, we hit quite a few birds
who were
trying to run away in panic from the noisy and large beast who seemed to
overtake
them as they were flying. Some birds fell stunned from the impact with
the hood
on the catwalk and some just fell onto the ground. There was a similar
fate of a
pack of dogs who were trapped in a gully as the train bore on them.
There was
sufficient land between the train and the side of the gully, but panic
drove
those pack of dogs under the loco's wheels. The strange thing was that
the loco
did not run over them from the front, , the dogs actually stepped under
the
loco's rear bogie, as they were running alongside the charging WDM 2.
The driver
told me that it was quite common for such blind panic to hit animals and
that it
was just as common for a pack of animals to die together if one of these
animals
makes a wrong move.
Mumbai division drivers warn against sounding the horn when a cow or
buffalo is
on the tracks. Often these large animals panic and when run over cause a
considerable damage to the loco and its underparts. I have heard grisly
tales of
the large animals having to be cut away in pieces to be freed from the
loco's
bogies.

I would support the move to shut the rail line through Rajaji National
Park,
there are alternatives routes, but at the current rake of ecological
downfall,
the elephants may not have another chance.
Let us take a lesson from the petition that over 3 lakh people have
signed over
the internet, we could do that too on some railway issue.

Apurva

Dheeraj Sanghi wrote:

> INTERNET WILDLIFE ACTIVISTS TARGET RAILWAYS

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Construction Indian Engineers

Date: 29 May 1999 05:04:26 -0500


I believe some of the African lines have also been laid by Indians in the early 20th century. Not that the Indian's had much choice in choosing the project, they must have been slightly better than slaves under the British masters. The story I have heard are large casualties by wild lions was the biggest problem.

Apurva

<<A HREF="http://www.talk21.com/> ">http://www.talk21.com/> </A>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Indian construction of foreign railways

Date: 29 May 1999 09:20:22 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> I believe some of the African lines have also been laid by Indians in
the early 20th century. Not that the Indian's had much choice in
choosing the project, they must have been slightly better than slaves
under the British masters. The story I have
> heard are large casualties by wild lions was the biggest problem.
>
> Apurva
>
> >


There's a book out about the 222 km long Biera 2' railway. Lots of
indentured Indian laborers were killed by disease and
wild animals building it.

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 29 May 1999 09:43:06 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > That lamp is there to illuminate the passage between units. Keep in
> > mind that, other than in shunting duty, a unit working by itself
here is
> > the exception rather than the rule. That light is actually a bit
> > irrelevant as all crewmen at night carry a light anyway, which
itself is
> > always lit.
>
> That lead to the question about how often do the American crew cross
onto
> neighboring locos while on the run. On the IR, I do not think any crew
would
> cross to the other loco while on the run. In any case the only locos
that
> would allow crossing is the WDM 2/ WDG 2. The AC freight locos WAG 5
etc
> have no door for jumping locos and hence the crew remains in one cab.
>
> Apurva


Apruva and list,

Crews will cross between locos if a problem arises with trailing
units.Somtimes the second crew member will ride a rear locomotive to
view the train,(we have no cabooses),for saftey reasons.Do'nt tell
anyone,but sometimes it a good place to get some "shut-eye".I've done
this a couple of times while joy riding on frieghts.Shhhhhhh...

Tim

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: New Diesels

Date: 29 May 1999 09:49:55 -0500


Hi
list,

A month or two ago I saw a photo in a magazine of new General Motors
locomotives of the ?SD70? type built in London Ont. Canada for shipment
to IR.Have they arrived yet?

Tim

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Wankaner

Date: 29 May 1999 09:53:26 -0500


Hello,

Where abouts is Wankaner.I nor my wife had heard of it.

Regards,Tim

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: 'No problem Sahib!'

Date: 29 May 1999 10:30:08 -0500


Hi list,

Just want to tell you about another book on Indias railways a friend had
given me."No problem Sahib" is the title.It is a state by state color
hardcover album of the railroads and its
surroundings.Steam,diesel,electric are all included.Tourist sights and
lifestyle shots are all included.This is a great book!Published by Three
Counties Publishing 151 Moorland View Road,Walton,Chesterfield
Derbyshire S40 3DD,England.Author/photographers are Peter Jordon,Richard
Paget and David Charlesworth. Most shots were taken through the
1980s'.If you can find it,get it!

Regards,Tim

From: julian.rainbow <>

Subject: Re: Indian construction of foreign railways

Date: 29 May 1999 10:30:51 -0500


I had just replied to this message when the email crashed, so am
starting again.

There are two African railways that I know of which used Indian labour.
This was civilian labour rather than the Military units which Annie
referred to on Masirah.

Firstly, the Uganda Railway. For nine months man-eating lions held up
construction on the River Tsavo, killing a total of 29 men. I am not
sure if the lions were old and weak, (the usual reason for them preying
on humans) or if they were attracted by easy pickings. Apparently, they
did not discriminate in picking upon Indians or Europeans. In fact one
night one of the Eurpean staff sat up to try and shot them, fell asleep,
the lions entered his carriage and carried him off. A rather drastic
penalty for falling asleep on duty.

It is intersting to note that Indian labourers were imported for the
job, as the local African tribes had been so weakened by slaver traders
that there was not enough labour available. Also the fact that Indian
labour and material was used meant that the line was laid to metre
gauge, rather than 3' 6" and consquently if the Cape to Cairo route was
ever to be built then this gauge is a major stumbling block, or even if
one wanted to move goods from Kenya to Zimbabwe say, then transhipment
is necessary.

Uganda Books

Permanent Way Vol1 M.F. Hill EAR&H, Nairobi 1960
The Lunatic Express C Miller, Macmillan, 1971

The Beira book Annie refers to is:
The Two-Foot Gauge Engima, the Beira Railway 1890-1900, A Baxter,
Plateway Press, Norfolk, 1998 ISBN 1 871980 34 8 Cost £8.95 + p&p

Julian
Anne Ogborn wrote:
> Apurva Bahadur wrote:
> >
> > I believe some of the African lines have also been laid by Indians
in the early 20th century. Not that the Indian's had much choice in
choosing the project, they must have been slightly better than slaves
under the British masters. The story I have
> > heard are large casualties by wild lions was the biggest problem.
> >
> > Apurva
> >
> > >
> 
> 
> There's a book out about the 222 km long Biera 2' railway. Lots of
> indentured Indian laborers were killed by disease and
> wild animals building it.




-----------------------------------------------------
This message has been sent from talk21 <A HREF="http://www.talk21.com/">http://www.talk21.com/</A>

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 29 May 1999 13:24:29 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > That lamp is there to illuminate the passage between units. Keep in
> > mind that, other than in shunting duty, a unit working by itself
here is
> > the exception rather than the rule. That light is actually a bit
> > irrelevant as all crewmen at night carry a light anyway, which
itself is
> > always lit.
>
> That lead to the question about how often do the American crew cross
onto
> neighboring locos while on the run. On the IR, I do not think any crew
would
> cross to the other loco while on the run. In any case the only locos
that
> would allow crossing is the WDM 2/ WDG 2. The AC freight locos WAG 5
etc
> have no door for jumping locos and hence the crew remains in one cab.

There's little reason to go back to the trailing units unless one of
them decides it doesn't want to cooperate in pulling the train any
longer, then a crewman will go back to that unit without stopping the
train. I was out chasing trains today and heard on my scanner the crew
of train Nr. Q407 calling the dispatcher and telling him that his
trailing unit was overheating and that he wasn't sure how much longer it
would be functioning...when the train came by me 10 minutes later the
trailing unit did NOT sound good, and had a crewman on the walkway
trying to find out what was wrong.
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com
<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>
Kitty Haiku: Like a king or queen
I sit in regal splendor
Until I puke up.

From: Dr. M S M Saifullah <>

Subject: Hitachi locos

Date: 29 May 1999 20:24:42 -0500


Hello everyone!

I am a new member of this list and had been interested in trains since I
was a kid (now I am 28.5 years old!). A few days ago I got interested in
knowing about the Indian Railways presence on the web. From what I saw,
it
was quite good. And then I hit upon Apurva's site at:

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/</A>

He has some good collection of pictures of the trains. What really
caught
me was the image at:

<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg">http://members.tripod.com/~ApuB/Strange/WAG.jpg</A>

It is picture of Hitachi locos on trails between the
Visakhapatnam-Kirandul
section. These locos were tested in the most severe conditions of the
track
for their final evaluation. Also evaluated were ABB
locos between Visakhapatnam-Kirandul section. I have personally gone
inside
both these locos at the VSKP Electric Loco Shed. And of course, I met
the
engineers from Sweden who were trying to repair
ABB loco.

Both Hitachi and ABB locos have on-board computer for the smooth running
as
well as fault detection.

You can see from the image a long line of BOX-N(?) wagons hauling iron
ore
from Bailadilla mines, some of which is exported and some of which goes
to
Visakhapatnam Steel Plant. I hope it clears up some of the 'confusion'.

Regards
Saifullah

Dr. M S M Saifullah, Researcher
Nanostructure Technology Research Group
Device Physics Research Laboratory
NTT Basic Research Laboratories
3-1, Morinosato Wakamiya, Atsugi-shi
Kanagawa Pref., 243-0198
Japan

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: 'No problem Sahib!'

Date: 29 May 1999 22:01:11 -0500


There was a news about three years back that the authors at back in
India to make an
update on this excellent book.

Apurva

Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:

> Hi list,
>
> Just want to tell you about another book on Indias railways a friend
had
> given me."No problem Sahib" is the title.It is a state by state color
> hardcover album of the railroads and its
> surroundings.Steam,diesel,electric are all included.Tourist sights and
> lifestyle shots are all included.This is a great book!Published by
Three
> Counties Publishing 151 Moorland View Road,Walton,Chesterfield
> Derbyshire S40 3DD,England.Author/photographers are Peter
Jordon,Richard
> Paget and David Charlesworth. Most shots were taken through the
> 1980s'.If you can find it,get it!
>
> Regards,Tim

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: New Diesels

Date: 29 May 1999 22:10:11 -0500


The SD 45 Mac (WDG 4) are already in India, and are homed at Hubli
(Karnataka) and
will be used to haul mineral trains between Bellary/ Hospet to Vasco
(Goa).

Apurva

Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:

> Hi
> list,
> A month or two ago I saw a photo in a magazine of new General Motors
> locomotives of the ?SD70? type built in London Ont. Canada for
shipment
> to IR.Have they arrived yet?
>
> Tim

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 29 May 1999 22:18:42 -0500


> Crews will cross between locos if a problem arises with trailing
> units.Somtimes the second crew member will ride a rear locomotive to
> view the train,(we have no cabooses),for saftey reasons.Do'nt tell
> anyone,but sometimes it a good place to get some "shut-eye".I've done
> this a couple of times while joy riding on frieghts.Shhhhhhh...

How easy it is for a non railway person to footplate a loco in the USA ?
In India, it
is one of the delights of railfanning, riding with the friendly,
cheerful and
hospitable crew who take great pride in their work and are glad to meet
someone is
keen to know about their work. You have to convince them of your
honourable intentions
and your knowledge on the matter. The type who is are not welcome on the
footplate are
the journalists who may write something adverse right on the next day's
headlines.

Since you have let us into a secret, let me tell you that on the IR, the
'shut eye' is
done is shifts on some lines. So one crew is always alert. The worst
period I am told
is 0300 - 0400 Hrs where it is difficult to stay awake, even if the crew
has slept in
the day.

Apurva

From: Anthony McIlwain <>

Subject: Subscribe

Date: 30 May 1999 00:13:46 -0500


Subscribe


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From: Karthik Giddu <>

Subject: SR Punctuality

Date: 30 May 1999 00:26:09 -0500


Hi Folks,
With SR punctuality showing almost 100% last year, I really wonder how they arrived at this figure?!!!. I frequently travel between bombay-madras and there always been that the train invariably gets delayed between Renigunta and Madras and vice-versa. (the SR stretch of bombay-madras). The train never travels continously for 2-3 stations fast. The most common reason is, then the train arrives at Renigunta or AJJ a goods train/EMU will start in the same direction.
 
Can anybody clarify this.
 
Karthik
 

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Wankaner

Date: 30 May 1999 00:56:05 -0500


Wankaner is located North West of Ahmedabad in Gujrat. It is some 100
Kms short of
Rajkot which should be indicated on the map. My website on WKR contains
a railway map
of the region.

Apurva

Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:

> Hello,
>
> Where abouts is Wankaner.I nor my wife had heard of it.
>
> Regards,Tim

From: Tim & Anita Wakeman <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 30 May 1999 09:04:47 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > Crews will cross between locos if a problem arises with trailing
> > units.Somtimes the second crew member will ride a rear locomotive to
> > view the train,(we have no cabooses),for saftey reasons.Do'nt tell
> > anyone,but sometimes it a good place to get some "shut-eye".I've
done
> > this a couple of times while joy riding on frieghts.Shhhhhhh...
>
> How easy it is for a non railway person to footplate a loco in the USA
? In India, it
> is one of the delights of railfanning, riding with the friendly,
cheerful and
> hospitable crew who take great pride in their work and are glad to
meet someone is
> keen to know about their work. You have to convince them of your
honourable intentions
> and your knowledge on the matter. The type who is are not welcome on
the footplate are
> the journalists who may write something adverse right on the next
day's headlines.
>


Most of my riding was done in the area of my hometown.The crew members
were regulars and we lived some distance from major terminals were upper
mang. would reside.After a few greetings trackside, a cab invite would
be common. This is going back some time though, my first ride occured in
1974 at the age of 9. I was actually afraid to ride because my mother
always told me the engineer that was on, was a madman and drove too fast
through town. She still encouraged me to go,(she bribed me $1).I even
got to run the train that evening. What a trill for a kid that loves
trains. When we got to where I was to get off,(about 15 miles to the
north),my mom and dad and sisters were there waiting by the tracks. I
was so high I forgot all about the dollar. I did get one, and so did my
brother who got to go too. From then on,I'd meet new railroaders who all
worked on the branch.To ride became common, and we all became good
friends even with such an age difference. They taught me a lot about
railroading. I've run trains for the tired, and swithched frieght cars
for one conductor who had a bad case of the "runs". He spent most of the
time in the bushes while I got his train organized. To day cab rides are
much more rare. Safty concerns are top priority, and crews always have
to worry about getting caught, which would mean termination.The unusual
does happen though. I asked for ride in the cab of the third to the last
VIA "Canadian" westbound at Thunder Bay Ontario. The condutor told me to
ask the engineer. I did. He said to come up.After some talk the road
foreman of engine climbs up. The driver introduced us and said I would
be going to Kenora with them. The "white hat" said."WELCOME ABOARD!".I
have ridden with other officials too. The best thing to do if you would
like to try to get on is to act normal,(do'nt go screaming to the guy
"You have got a WDM-1 for power!WOW! Do you know how old this thing
is?).Take an interest in them personally,talk about the weather
etc...Gain their respect and then ask to see the inside.
Another thing I should say.I work for a railroad.I do'nt get payed but
it is for good cause.I volunteer on The Adirondack Scenic Railroad as a
conducter.It is somewhat of a tourist line, but we have greatly
expanded.We now run trains at speeds up to 45 MPH and have operable
track for a distance of about 60 miles and getting longer. If you want
to check out our home page, we're at <A HREF="http://www.netacc.net/~arps">http://www.netacc.net/~arps</A>.



> Since you have let us into a secret, let me tell you that on the IR,
the 'shut eye' is
> done is shifts on some lines. So one crew is always alert. The worst
period I am told
> is 0300 - 0400 Hrs where it is difficult to stay awake, even if the
crew has slept in
> the day.
>


Here fitiuge is a big problem.Dispatchers are now giving permission to
crews to nap while they are waiting opposing trains. But running a train
has a hypnotic effect, esspecially when you operate the same track
daily. My step-father is a driver.I was riding with him once and watched
him dose off at the trottle. His right hand was at rest on the trottle
and his left on the automatic brake. We were running at about 10MPH on
jointed rail, rocking back and forth....back and forth. Soon we
approached a grade crossing. My step-dad was still asleep. Then
suddenly, he reaches up, grabs the horn cord, and signals a perfect two
longs, a short, and a long blast for the crossing. Then he was right
back to sleep. I was amazed.


Tim
> Apurva

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 30 May 1999 09:16:49 -0500


> How easy it is for a non railway person to footplate a loco in the USA
? In India, it
> is one of the delights of railfanning, riding with the friendly,
cheerful and
> hospitable crew who take great pride in their work and are glad to
meet someone is
> keen to know about their work. You have to convince them of your
honourable intentions
> and your knowledge on the matter. The type who is are not welcome on
the footplate are
> the journalists who may write something adverse right on the next
day's headlines.
>

Quite difficult. Most avid railfans have managed it once or twice, but
it's rare.
Our model railroad club has a member who'se a driver for Caltrain, and
even so only
once did another member get to go with him - that in exchange for some
favor done.
The penalty if he had been caught would have been dismissal.

Even to go onto the railroad property is increasingly becoming
impossible for railfans here.

Annie

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Question for our American friends

Date: 30 May 1999 09:18:14 -0500


I should clarify that conditions were quite different some
years ago, and may be different today in out of the way places.
I regularly rode in the cab of the local switch engine in my
home town as a child.

Annie

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