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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Longest halt on the IR

Date: 27 May 1999 04:54:16 -0500




>
> How about the longest halt on IR. My candidate is 2311 UP Kalka mail
which
> has a scheduled halt of 2 Hrs. 55 Min. at Delhi Jn. The Kalka mail is
a
> superfast and I doubt if even any passenger train could beat that.

This is VERY interesting ! Please explain why the 11 Up halts for so
long, is
it waiting for some train to amalgamate with it's rake at DLI ? Does the
12 Dn
also similarly halt for so long ?
The longest I have waited was in the slip coaches that travel with the
7383
Dn. Maharashtra Express to Bhusawal in the morning and then are attached
to
1027 Dn in the evening to go to Gorakhpur. But then this is not the
entire
rake, just a few sleeper coaches.

Apurva

From: ranand <>

Subject: Re: I am going to Madras

Date: 27 May 1999 05:08:05 -0500


I have some photos that I took in March 1998 on the MRTS. I have
digitized
these and I can send them over to someone who wishes to put them up on
the web.
The elevated line is every bit as interesting as Auro mentioned. I spent
a few
years of my childhood in Triplicane (Thiruvellikeni) and it was quite
amazing
to see the gopuram of Parthasarathi temple from the train.

As it happens, my parents live within a short distance of the MRTS line,
one km
south of Mylapore. The pillars have gone up and as of two months ago,
the beams
on
the top have not yet been laid. Everyone is excited about the project
and is
hoping
that land values will increase.


Internet: anand@watson.email
External tel: (914) 784 7054
Notes: Rangachari Anand/Watson/IBM@IBMUS
Tie-line: 863 7054

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Pune/Coimbatore as Terminus?

Date: 27 May 1999 08:00:46 -0500




>From: Auroprem Kandaswami <kandaswa@apple.email
>To: Indian Rail Fan Club Association <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Pune/Coimbatore as Terminus?
>Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 15:22:40 -0700
>
> Hi gang,
>
> Every year, there is at least one new train introduced that
originates or
> terminates at PA. If not this, IR at least increases the frequency
of
>trains
> to/from PA - like the latest reported by Apurva, Ahimsa Express which
> first started off as a Weekly and is now tri-weekly or 4 days a week.
>
> Does PA generate a lot of traffic to warrant these separate trains?
Or
>is
> the main idea here simply to provide a direct connection to CR's NE
line
> from PA without the need for any change at MMR or KYN ?
>
> There is a direct train starting from PA to ADI, NDLS, JAT, HWH,
Varanasi
>(not
>sure),
> ERS (latest introduction) and probably a couple more. I know for sure

>CSTM-PA
> trains run packed end-to-end, throughout the year.

There is a direct train to Varanasi - the biweekly Gyan Ganga Exp. which

used to
terminate at Manduadih but has been extended till Varanasi.


>
> My guess on the first train which terminated/originated from PA would
> be the Jhelum Express (introduced in 70s ?). Of course, needless to
say,
> I am skipping all CSTM - PA trains for this purpose.

Jhelum Exp. is, indeed, the first northbound train (via Daund)
originating from Pune. It was only the second train after the Gitanjali
to
have a non-stop run between Manmad and Bhusaval and the 3rd train after
the
Gitanjali and Navjeevan exp. to ignore Chalisgaon. It's original halt
pattern between Pune and Delhi was much different from today - Daund,
Belapur, Ahmednagar, Manmad,
Bhusaval, Khandwa, Itarsi, Bhopal, Jhansi, Gwalior and Agra Cantt.
It even skipped Nizamuddin in both directions.


>
> Another candidate for this question is Coimbatore Jn. (CBJ or CBE).
While
> this had only Kovai Express and Cheran Express for almost the last 2
>decades,
> recently it has started receiving "special" terminus status. First
you
>had
> the Coimbatore-Rajkot Express, recently the Coimbatore-Kurla Express
> started last year. Coimbatore-Bangalore Inter City Express is also
>another
> recent introduction. Maybe more are in the pipeline.
>
> Auro
>

The reason for the Coimbatore - Kurla/Rajkot/Delhi trains is to
'make-up' for the rerouting of Netravati, Rajkot-Cochin/Trivandrum
and Mangala via KR.


Vijay


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Dehradun Shatabdi.

Date: 27 May 1999 08:04:38 -0500


>The two routes are :
>
>- Delhi Jn. - Ghaziabad - Mujaffarnagar - Saharanpur - Roorkee -
Haridwar -
>Dehradun
>- Delhi Jn. - Ghaziabad - Gajraula - Bijnor - Najibabad - Laksar -
>Haridwar - Dehradun
>

Do the Ujjayini Exp. and Shatabdi bypass Laksar to avoid direction
reversal?
Or do they have a techincal halt at Laksar?


Vijay


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: FAQ - Trivia : More update.

Date: 27 May 1999 08:53:39 -0500




>From: "hvc" <champa@del3.email
>Reply-To: "hvc" <hvc@vsnl.email
>To: "Vijay Balasubramanian" <vijay_642@hotmail.email "Satish
Pai" <s_pai@bigfoot.email "Indian Rail Fan Club Association"
<irfca@cs.email
>Subject: FAQ - Trivia : More update.
>Date: Wed, 26 May 1999 18:21:40 +0530
>
> >Longest run (distance) :
>
> >[5/99] Broad Gauge: The Himsagar Express (between Kanyakumari and
Jammu >Tawi, train #6318) has the longest run in terms of distance (and
time, see above) on >IR -- it covers a distance of 3751km in 74 hours
and 55 minutes.
>
> >The second longest run in distance is by the Navyug Express (between
Jammu Tawi >and Mangalore) over 3645km.
>
>
>
>According to my Calculations: Himsagar Exp. is 3744 Km. (Jammu Tawi to
Jallundhar Cannt = 222 Km, Jallundhar Cantt. to Ludhiana = 52 Km,
Ludhiana to Jakhal = 129 Km, Jakhal to Delhi Jn. = 200 Km, Delhi Jn. to
Kaniya Kumari = 3141 Km).
>
>Navyug Exp. is 3636 Km. (Jammu Tawi to Jallundhar Cannt = 222 Km,
Jallundhar Cantt. to Ludhiana = 52 Km, Ludhiana to Jakhal = 129 Km,
Jakhal to Delhi Jn. = 200 Km, Delhi Jn. to Manglore = 3033 Km).
>


My figures are from the Bradshaw and tally with the distance from the
IR magazine. Let's revisit the Bradshaw -

Jammu Tawi to Jallandhar Cantt - 220
(Jammu Tawi to Jallandhar City - 217, J. City to J. Cantt - 5
So Jammu Tawi to J. Cantt via J. City is 222.
But Himsagar and Navyug bypass J. City using the chord line, so the
distance should be between 217 and 222 - let's assume 220.)

J. Cantt to Ludhiana - 52, Ludhiana to Jakhal - 129,
Jakhal to Delhi - 200, Delhi to Gudur - 2056,
Gudur to Renigunta - 84, Renigunta to Kanyakumari - 1004,
(in calculating the distance from Renigunta to Kanyakumari I have
tried to account for the bypassing of Arakkonam and Ernakulam)

So, total distance = 3745 km. Hmm, just 1 km less than yours.
The IR magazine quotes it as 3751.

Navyug comes out to be 3640 km. - 4 km. more than yours.

So, let's say that the Himsagar distance is about 3745 km. and the
Navyug distance is about 3640 km. to account for discrepancies that may
arise because of bypass lines. Do working TTs give distances for
bypass/chord lines?


Vijay


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From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: [Fwd: Fedex/UPS/etc. [off topic]

Date: 27 May 1999 09:44:42 -0500


From: Bharat Vohra <>

Subject: Trip to the south!

Date: 27 May 1999 11:20:15 -0500


Hi All!
Just got back from a trip to the south to Mangalore, Ooty and Conoor.
Had a great trip there, highlight of course being the Mountain railway
journey up to Ooty....a journey to die for and one that all of you must
take
if you havent already!!
Have shot about 5 rolls of film on my trip....3 on the NMR and 2
assorted
ones in and around SR.
Will be putting up some pages on the net with writeups and of course
photos
as soon as I can get down to it and will let all of you know the URL
once
its up!
Till then, here is my itinary and a few observations I made while on
SR...

-left Kurla Terminus, now lovingly called Lokmanaya Tilak Terminus on
the
19th afternoon by Matsyagandha Exp at 15:15 (19th)
-arrived Mangalore next morning 2 hours late at 9:30 am (20th)
-left for Podanur Jn. by Chennai Mail at 11:45 am (20th)
-arrived at Podanur Jn at 22:10, again almost two hours late (20th)
-Bus to Ukaddam (20th)
-Bus to Gandhivaram (Coimbatore) (20th)
-Bus to Metupalayam (20th)
-night at Metupalayam (MTP) station (20th)
-morning departure from MTP at 7:30 am (21st)
-arrival at Ooty again 2 hours late at 13:30 (21st)
-day and night at Ooty (21st)
-day at Ooty (22nd)
-evening departure to Coonoor (CNR) at 18:00 (22nd)
-night arrival at CNR at 19:10, on time for a change!! (22nd)
-night at CNR (22nd)
-day at CNR (23rd)
-Bus in the evening to MTP (23rd)
-Bus to Gandhivaram (CBE) (23rd)
-Bus to Podanur Jn. (23rd)
-West Cost Express to Mangalore at night from Podanur Jn. (23rd)
-arrival MAQ again 2 hours late at 7:45 am (24th)
-day at MAQ (24th)
-night departure by Matsyagandha Express at 21:00 (24th)
-arrival CLAT 2 hours late for the umpteenth time at 14:50 (25th)

This is the first trip I was making to the south as a true railnut and
with
camera in hand!!
Earlier trips were in the early eighties to Tirupati and Bangalore only!

Dont remember much of that though! What immediately struck me on my
visit
there was that the south as a whole is much cleaner and better organised
and
more efficient then any other part of India....and this comes from a
north
Indian like me!! The north is pathetic in comparison!!
After Western Railway, which has been my all time favourite, I have to
admit
that Southern comes a very close second! I was impressed with most
aspects
of it except of course for the punctuality...which is quite poor..please

correct me if I am wrong...but my general experience was that trains
arent
run to well there...again maybe that is limited to Palghat Division
which I
travelled on a lot! I had assumed SR would be passenger oriented and
would
run its trains on time but this wasnt the case!
One thing that impressed me a lot about them was their Passenger Time
Table...the most impressive Railway publication I have ever
seen....those of
you who have laid your hands on the latest one..please comment...its
more
like a souvenier/brochure given out at functions...with sponsors and ads
all
over...glossy cover, glossy colour coded maps, tips for travellers, tips
on
how to read the time table and so on....very well laid out and
executed...hats of to the team who put in such an effort and
initiative....other railways please take note!!
Coming to their rolling stock.....I have never seen a railway with so
many
air braked passenger train rakes...majority of their long distance runs
have
air braked rakes..even short distance passenger workings like
MAQ-Cannanore
are air braked!! I think apart from them only NR and CR have got so many

airbraked services! WR seems to be lagging behind in this department!
I tried capturing as many shed colour shcemes there but the one and only

that escaped me was the GOC powers.....I saw a total of 4, but never had
a
camera ready to shoot them!
SR has 4 diesel sheds as most of you would know...Ernakulam, Erode,
Krishnarajapuram and Golden Rock and of course the WDS4 sheds at
Tondiarpet
and Bangalore City.
I didnt manage to see any WDS4's on SR or even WDS6's for that matter!
The
locos I spotted amongst the diesels were the WDM2, WDM7 and WDG2's. I
liked
the colur schemes on all the SR powers....Erode being my favourite
livery!
It seems like Erode is the largest shed on SR...is that correct? Golden
Rock
appears to be the smallest...I suppose thats because its newly taken
over
from the MG shed there! I spotted a total of 4 GOC powers and even less
KJM
powers....only 2 on a BCN working! Erode locos were the most common
followed
by Ernakulam....maybe because of their proximity to the area in which I
was
travelling?
SR electrification is complete till Shoranur Jn on the west coast. On
our
way to Podanur from MAQ, the Erode WDM2 gave way to an Arokonam WAM4
(20610)
which was marked WAM4 SPD ..??
However on the way back the Erode power, WDM2, 18600R worked the train
all
the way from MAS to MAQ! In fact I only spotted a total of 4 electrics
between Shoranur and Podanur including ours!
The others were a WAG7 and 2 WAG5's! It seems that either electrics are
in
short supply over SR or then the newly electrified section till Shoranur
is
missing electric patronage! 90% of frieght and passenger workings on
their
electrified sections were on diesel power!

Those are the observations for now...hope to put up the pages on the net

soon. Meanwhile please let me know if any my observations or readings
are
incorrect!
Thanks and Regards,
Bharat Vohra


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From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Longest halt on the IR

Date: 27 May 1999 11:21:55 -0500



>>
>> How about the longest halt on IR. My candidate is 2311 UP Kalka mail
which
>> has a scheduled halt of 2 Hrs. 55 Min. at Delhi Jn. The Kalka mail is
a
>> superfast and I doubt if even any passenger train could beat that.
>
>This is VERY interesting ! Please explain why the 11 Up halts for so
long,
is
>it waiting for some train to amalgamate with it's rake at DLI ? Does
the 12
Dn
>also similarly halt for so long ?
>The longest I have waited was in the slip coaches that travel with the
7383
>Dn. Maharashtra Express to Bhusawal in the morning and then are
attached to
>1027 Dn in the evening to go to Gorakhpur. But then this is not the
entire
>rake, just a few sleeper coaches.
>


1 DN arrives at Delhi Jn. at 1950(I believe a timing later than that
would
not be preferred by non-Delhiwallas arriving in Delhi for the first
time!!)
after departing from Howrah at 1915 on the
previous day. For some unknown reasons the timings of this train have
remained largely unchanged in its long history.
Maybe because it is a very prestigious train, or because of its
suitability
for passengers bound for Mughal Sarai(Arr. 0615), Allahabad(Arr. 0900)
etc. but then Iam only guessing.
The train reaches its final destination Kalka at at 0500 wher it
connects
with the morning NG trains to Simla. Currently, this train is very
popular
with `Babu Moshais' bound for Simla in the month of October(Durga Puja).
Earlier in the days of British Raj, when Calcutta was the capital, this
train used to carry the court and its offices to Simla, the then Summer
capital.

Considering that the train's arrival time at Delhi cannot be
disturbed(for
whatever reasons), If this train was to leave earlier than its scheduled
departure of 22.45, it would reach Kalka in the middle of night to leave
the
onward journey passengers stranded and freezing. It takes a leisurely
six
hours to cover the 268 Km and it may not be possible to stretch it
further.
This is the best that I can explain it.

Interestingly the 2 UP has a halt of 25 Min. only at Delhi Jn. and even
that
is given to facilitate a loco change.

Harsh

From: hvc <>

Subject: Re: Dehradun Shatabdi.

Date: 27 May 1999 11:45:01 -0500



>
>Do the Ujjayini Exp. and Shatabdi bypass Laksar to avoid direction
reversal?
> Or do they have a techincal halt at Laksar?
>


Laksar is at the edge(Najibabad side) of a triangle formed by lines
arriving
from Saharanpur, Najibabad and Haridwar. Trains coming from SPN side and
bound to HW/DDN do not need to touch Laksar but special odd ones like
Dehradun Bombay Exp. do go there and reverse.

Harsh

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: 2nd longest MG run

Date: 27 May 1999 12:31:40 -0500


>
>OK, I've just laid hands on the NER Aug '98 TT. It clearly mentions
that
>5715/6 now runs between Samastipur and Alipurduar only. I think this is
the
>conclusive evidence.
>
>Clearly, the IR TAAG is spinning some old yarn and it seems that
Bradshaw
>and other
>private TTs are blindly propagating the back dated stuff. Even the
timings
>mentioned for this train have not been correct for last two years.
>
>The distance between Samastipur and Alipurduar is only 657 Km.
>
>Hope this clarifies the matter.
>
>Harsh
>

It's strange that both Bradshaw and TAAG would show schedules that are
outdated by two or more years. The NEFR TT is Aug. '98 and the Bradshaw
is Dec. 1998 - could this extension have happened in between? IMHO,
until we get the NEFR TT for this year, we cannot totally rule out the
possibility of the train running till Tezpur.
At this point, I am inclined to believe that the train does not run
beyond Alipurduar. Let's see...

Vijay


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From: Auroprem Kandaswami <>

Subject: Re: Trip to the south!

Date: 27 May 1999 13:16:48 -0500



Hi Bharat,

I would tend to disagree about your comments on SR's punctuality.

This is not to say that SR operates at 99.99% punctuality. I
think the particular section on SR that you happenned to travel,
MAQ - Podanur Jn. (anybody knows the code?) which is single-line
for most part, and has a tremendous traffic density, might have
a lower or mediocre punctuality. Doubling of SRR (Shoranur)-MAQ
is in the works, do not know how far it is completed. This whole
section is under Palghat (PGT) Division, which was Olavakkot division
for decades, just renamed within the last 10 years.

If you would like to witness and experience the dizzy, ecstatic
heights of both Cleaniness and Punctuality at the same time, one must
make it a point to do the MS-MDU section at least once in his/her
life. Madras-Madurai sector covers three SR divisions, Madras,
Tiruchichirapalli (TPJ) and Madurai divisions.

If you would like to add another attribute to this section (I do not
find the correct word, "Orderliness" maybe?), then consider this:
I have experienced this at least twice travelling in SL class, the
train would reach Chengalputtu Jn. (56 kms from MS). After about
3 minutes of halt there, the TTE would just "rudely" lock all the
doors. At Villupuram JN. (VM) even if you were a bonafide traveller,
you have to request the TTE, "Sir, I would like to fill some water."
Then, he will open the door for you saying also, "Please be back
soon". After this, all the doors of SL coaches are locked, letting no
ticketless or unreserved fellows to barge in. Ticket checking is
complete most of the time by Tambaram, sometimes it extends upto
Chingleput.

(It is not uncommon to see the following "chalk-written" on SL
coaches. 27/05/99 - S3 - No room or Full)

Any comments or critiques about this are most welcome!

A small request: can any Railway Official on this list supply
the group with a recent list of Punctuality Figures by Railway Zone.
Thanks.

Auro
___________________________________________________________________

>From: "Bharat Vohra" <bvohra@hotmail.email
>To: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Trip to the south!
>Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 11:20:15 PDT
>
>Hi All!
>Just got back from a trip to the south to Mangalore, Ooty and Conoor.
>Had a great trip there, highlight of course being the Mountain railway
>journey up to Ooty....a journey to die for and one that all of you must
take
>if you havent already!!
>Have shot about 5 rolls of film on my trip....3 on the NMR and 2
assorted
>ones in and around SR.
>Will be putting up some pages on the net with writeups and of course
photos
>as soon as I can get down to it and will let all of you know the URL
once
>its up!
>Till then, here is my itinary and a few observations I made while on
SR...
>
>-left Kurla Terminus, now lovingly called Lokmanaya Tilak Terminus on
the
>19th afternoon by Matsyagandha Exp at 15:15 (19th)
>-arrived Mangalore next morning 2 hours late at 9:30 am (20th)
>-left for Podanur Jn. by Chennai Mail at 11:45 am (20th)
>-arrived at Podanur Jn at 22:10, again almost two hours late (20th)
>-Bus to Ukaddam (20th)
>-Bus to Gandhivaram (Coimbatore) (20th)
>-Bus to Metupalayam (20th)
>-night at Metupalayam (MTP) station (20th)
>-morning departure from MTP at 7:30 am (21st)
>-arrival at Ooty again 2 hours late at 13:30 (21st)
>-day and night at Ooty (21st)
>-day at Ooty (22nd)
>-evening departure to Coonoor (CNR) at 18:00 (22nd)
>-night arrival at CNR at 19:10, on time for a change!! (22nd)
>-night at CNR (22nd)
>-day at CNR (23rd)
>-Bus in the evening to MTP (23rd)
>-Bus to Gandhivaram (CBE) (23rd)
>-Bus to Podanur Jn. (23rd)
>-West Cost Express to Mangalore at night from Podanur Jn. (23rd)
>-arrival MAQ again 2 hours late at 7:45 am (24th)
>-day at MAQ (24th)
>-night departure by Matsyagandha Express at 21:00 (24th)
>-arrival CLAT 2 hours late for the umpteenth time at 14:50 (25th)
>
>This is the first trip I was making to the south as a true railnut and
with
>camera in hand!!
>Earlier trips were in the early eighties to Tirupati and Bangalore
only!
>Dont remember much of that though! What immediately struck me on my
visit
>there was that the south as a whole is much cleaner and better
organised and
>more efficient then any other part of India....and this comes from a
north
>Indian like me!! The north is pathetic in comparison!!
>After Western Railway, which has been my all time favourite, I have to
admit
>that Southern comes a very close second! I was impressed with most
aspects
>of it except of course for the punctuality...which is quite
poor..please
>correct me if I am wrong...but my general experience was that trains
arent
>run to well there...again maybe that is limited to Palghat Division
which I
>travelled on a lot! I had assumed SR would be passenger oriented and
would
>run its trains on time but this wasnt the case!
>One thing that impressed me a lot about them was their Passenger Time
>Table...the most impressive Railway publication I have ever
seen....those of
>you who have laid your hands on the latest one..please comment...its
more
>like a souvenier/brochure given out at functions...with sponsors and
ads all
>over...glossy cover, glossy colour coded maps, tips for travellers,
tips on
>how to read the time table and so on....very well laid out and
>executed...hats of to the team who put in such an effort and
>initiative....other railways please take note!!
>Coming to their rolling stock.....I have never seen a railway with so
many
>air braked passenger train rakes...majority of their long distance runs
have
>air braked rakes..even short distance passenger workings like
MAQ-Cannanore
>are air braked!! I think apart from them only NR and CR have got so
many
>airbraked services! WR seems to be lagging behind in this department!
>I tried capturing as many shed colour shcemes there but the one and
only
>that escaped me was the GOC powers.....I saw a total of 4, but never
had a
>camera ready to shoot them!
>SR has 4 diesel sheds as most of you would know...Ernakulam, Erode,
>Krishnarajapuram and Golden Rock and of course the WDS4 sheds at
Tondiarpet
>and Bangalore City.
>I didnt manage to see any WDS4's on SR or even WDS6's for that matter!
The
>locos I spotted amongst the diesels were the WDM2, WDM7 and WDG2's. I
liked
>the colur schemes on all the SR powers....Erode being my favourite
livery!
>It seems like Erode is the largest shed on SR...is that correct? Golden
Rock
>appears to be the smallest...I suppose thats because its newly taken
over
>from the MG shed there! I spotted a total of 4 GOC powers and even less
KJM
>powers....only 2 on a BCN working! Erode locos were the most common
followed
>by Ernakulam....maybe because of their proximity to the area in which I
was
>travelling?
>SR electrification is complete till Shoranur Jn on the west coast. On
our
>way to Podanur from MAQ, the Erode WDM2 gave way to an Arokonam WAM4
(20610)
>which was marked WAM4 SPD ..??
>However on the way back the Erode power, WDM2, 18600R worked the train
all
>the way from MAS to MAQ! In fact I only spotted a total of 4 electrics
>between Shoranur and Podanur including ours!
>The others were a WAG7 and 2 WAG5's! It seems that either electrics are
in
>short supply over SR or then the newly electrified section till
Shoranur is
>missing electric patronage! 90% of frieght and passenger workings on
their
>electrified sections were on diesel power!
>
>Those are the observations for now...hope to put up the pages on the
net
>soon. Meanwhile please let me know if any my observations or readings
are
>incorrect!
>Thanks and Regards,
>Bharat Vohra
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>


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From: julian.rainbow <>

Subject: Re: Construction Indian Engineers

Date: 27 May 1999 14:01:23 -0500


Seeing that the Indian Engineer Regiemts would have come under Royal
Eningeer command you might also try the RE Museum at Chatham in Kent or
the Army Transport Musem at Leconfiled near Hull if it is still open.

Plateway Press have also done a series of books that deal with narrow
gauge in WW1

Julian

Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
> Dear Jackie and Annie,
>  Around the turn of the century the War Office tried to do two
things.
> Firstly, it laid down a rule that the "imperial standard" for Military
> narrow-gauge railways would be 2ft 6in gauge. This is one reaon why
many
> Indian NG lines built after the turn of the century were 2ft 6in
gauge,
> whereas quite a lot of the earlier ones were 2ft.
>  As it happens, 2ft 6in did not catch on as a military gauge, due
to
> the universal adoption of 60cm (roughly equal to 2ft) for trench
railways in
> WWI.
>  But the War Office did build up a strategic Reserve of 2ft 6in
gauge
> materiel in India. It mostly consisted of some rather neat 2-4-2 tank
> engines, plus some motley, but purpose-designed, rolling stock.
Painstaking
> experiments were also conducted with light 4-wheel trolleys, to find
out the
> optimal size that could be handled by men, mules, and so on. Materials
from
> this reserve, plus some recovered from closed lines or commandeered
from
> ongoing ones, certainly were used in the Middle East in both WWI and
WWII.
> There is a lot of information in Hughes' books, especially the one
about
> Middle East railways. (Worth having anyway).
>  War Office records would be the other place to look: the India
Office
> will only have records for those operations with which the Indian Army
or
> Indian Railways were directly involved.
>  Hope that helps: happy hunting!
>  Ken Walker
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Castle <jackiecastle@jcsd.email
> To: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email irfca@cs.email
<irfca@cs.email
> Date: Wednesday, 26 May 1999 5:00
> Subject: Re: Construction Indian Engineers
> 
> 
> >This is a bit of lateral thinking but........
> >
> >In the early part of the 20th century the Bengal Miners & Sappers
Company
> >was set up. In 1901 the company consisted of 27 lococs, 230 wagons,
30
> brake
> >vans and 140 miles of track stored at various places, mostly on the
North
> >western Frontier. By 1907, a permant barracks were built at Quetta.
In
> 1909
> >the Corps consisted of 50 men, of who 35 were engine drivers, 3
station
> >masters, 1 traffic inspector and 11 guards who were "enlisted from
Railway
> >companies (I assume the NWR) to be paid 12 annas per diem". A later
report
> >on the company (sadly undated) stated the company consisted of : 5
> officers,
> >1 company sgt major, 1 pay corparal, 2 tailors, 1 boot maker, 1 co.
cook, 6
> >engine drivers, 6 firemen, 9 guards, 9 station masters, 9 asst
station
> >masters and telegraphists, 9 pointmen and signal men, 1 running shed
> >foreman, 3 fitters, 1 boiler maker, 9 smiths, 14 hammer menm 2
cleaners, 2
> >carriage greasers, 9 carpenters, 2 foreman platelayers, 9 leading
hands, 18
> >platelayers and 2 buglers.
> >
> >This is the last reference that I can find about this regiment in the
India
> >Office archives - I know that in the 1920's the regiment received a
number
> >of ex WW1 Motor Rails but little else is known.
> >
> >I assume that these men came from a later incarnation of this
regiment.
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
> >To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> >Date: 26 May 1999 04:55
> >Subject: Construction Indian Engineers
> >
> >
> >>Little known "Indian" railway -
> >> Fallen into my hands is a slim volume, "The RAF Masirah
Railway",
> >>by WJL Corser. It is a quite racist history of the narrow gauge
> Decauville
> >>railway that serviced the RAF station on Masirah island off the
> >>coast of Yemen.
> >>
> >> During WWII they had an extensive 24" railway, operated by
> >>men identified only as "natives" or "native labor". I assumed
> >>they were Yemeni men, and was suprised that they wore pugrees -
> >>the turban being a common garment throughout the world, but
> >>the particular folding of the pugree being, I thought, specificly
> >>Indian.
> >> My curiousity was much heightened when I found this note:
> >>
> >>All the following personnel were evacuated from the island prior to
> >>the monsoon on SS Barjara;
> >>Capt. Inglis, Indian Pioneers; Capt. Ponisowsky, RE construction;
> >>2... Companies of Indian Pioneers; Thirty Railway Construction
> >>Indian Engineers.
> >>
> >>and shortly below that
> >>
> >>A British WO, 5 Indian Railway Drivers, and 30 native railway
maintainence
> >party
> >>are working the Decauville Railway efficiently.
> >>
> >>So, does anyone on this list know anything more of these Indian
> >>Railway Construction Engineers, pioneers, drivers, and so on?
> >>
> >
> >
> 




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From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Track through Rajaji National Park

Date: 27 May 1999 21:25:57 -0500


INTERNET WILDLIFE ACTIVISTS TARGET RAILWAYS

Rahul Karmakar (Lucknow, May 27)
Hindustan Times, May 28th.

Internet-linked wildlife activists across the globe are poised
for a war with the Indian Railways over a 16 km killer track
in Rajaji National Park. They will be making the first move on
Friday when they submit an unprecedented petition signed by over
three lakh people world-wide to Railway Minister Nitish Kumar.

The Motichur-Kansrao section of the Delhi-Dehradun track has
killed 15 elephants, two leopards and several other animals
since 1987. This 16 km stretch passes through Rajaji National
Park (RNP), a critical conservation area for Asian elephants.

Spread across Haridwar, Dehradun and Pauri districts of Uttar Pradesh,
RNP was designated a Project Elephant reserve by the Ministry of
Environment and Forests with the sole of aim of maintaining viable
populations of elephants. But the killer track has been a major
hurdle, putting the future of some 200 pachyderms there at risk.

In November last year, RNP officials met their railway
counterparts including the Moradabad DRM in order to stop
endangered animals from being run over by trains. During that
meeting, railway officials had agreed to take certain measures.

These included erection of signboards warning drivers about potential
animal crossing zones -- they were expected to slow the train and blow
horn, flattening or widening narrow nullah-like areas through which
the track passes and slowing trains to 20 kmph. On March 26, however,
the DRM Moradabad wrote to RNP officials intimating that under current
circumstances, it would not be possible to regulate the speed of trains
to 20 kmph between Motichur and Kansrao. Five days later, the 15th
elephant -- a female -- was killed by a speeding train in this section.

The elephant's death prompted five global organisations including
Defenders of Wildlife and Wildlife Coalition to come together and
target Indian Railways. They pointed out that operation of high-speed
trains on the Motichur-Kansrao track was in violation of the Wildlife
(Protection) Act of 1972. Only two measures are required to put an end
to these killings, said Mr Nirmal Ghosh, a Singapore-based activist, who
would approach the Railway Minister along with Mr A Christy Williams
of the Wildlife Institute of India and Mr Ashish Kothari of Kalpavriksh.

The immediate measure is slowing down of all trains, he said via the
e-mail adding the long-term solution is to re-route the Doiwala-Kansrao-
Motichur-Raiwala track via Rishikesh. But even after realignment of the
track, trains should run at under 20 kmph in the Raiwala-Haridwar
section.

Eventual realignment of the track will hardly affect commuters while
slowing
down trains will only entail a few minutes rescheduling on the part of
the
Railways, he added.The conservationists also plan to submit the petition
to
the Minister of Environment and Forests and the director of Project
Elephant.

They are not averse to blocking the killer track and intensifying
their campaign if no action is taken to save the RNP animals.

From: poras p.saklatwalla <>

Subject: Re: Longest halt on the IR (fwd)

Date: 27 May 1999 21:44:25 -0500


Again at Ambala for 50 mins and chandigarh for 1 hour that is from 3.10
am
to 4.05 am. Correct me if I am, wrong. I was on Kalka mail in November
and was freezing to death in the cold at chandigarh. I could not sleep
because some unthoughtful Babu Moshais were creating a hungama over tea
and coffee and switched on the lights and were constantly shaking and
pushing me on the lower side berth at 3.00 in the morning. So the best
thing I did in these circumstances was to put on my jacket and get out
of
the coziness of 3Ac and out on the platform with a cup of tea and a
Marlboro ciggerete to keep warm. I wished that there was a steam loco
some where so that I could stay warm, but alas !
I think in these circumstances it wwas best to join the pandemonium
creators on board ! Am I a true fellow passenger !



PORAS P.SAKLATWALLA
TEL :5773535/3636
EXT :4226/4232/4237

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From: hvc <champa@del3.email
To: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
Cc: John Lacey <jlacey@zeta.email irfca@cs.email
Date: Thu, 27 May 1999 23:51:55 +0530
Subject: Re: Longest halt on the IR
Reply-To: hvc <hvc@vsnl.email


>>
>> How about the longest halt on IR. My candidate is 2311 UP Kalka mail
which
>> has a scheduled halt of 2 Hrs. 55 Min. at Delhi Jn. The Kalka mail is
a
>> superfast and I doubt if even any passenger train could beat that.
>
>This is VERY interesting ! Please explain why the 11 Up halts for so
long,
is
>it waiting for some train to amalgamate with it's rake at DLI ? Does
the 12
Dn
>also similarly halt for so long ?
>The longest I have waited was in the slip coaches that travel with the
7383
>Dn. Maharashtra Express to Bhusawal in the morning and then are
attached to
>1027 Dn in the evening to go to Gorakhpur. But then this is not the
entire
>rake, just a few sleeper coaches.
>


1 DN arrives at Delhi Jn. at 1950(I believe a timing later than that
would
not be preferred by non-Delhiwallas arriving in Delhi for the first
time!!)
after departing from Howrah at 1915 on the
previous day. For some unknown reasons the timings of this train have
remained largely unchanged in its long history.
Maybe because it is a very prestigious train, or because of its
suitability
for passengers bound for Mughal Sarai(Arr. 0615), Allahabad(Arr. 0900)
etc. but then Iam only guessing.
The train reaches its final destination Kalka at at 0500 wher it
connects
with the morning NG trains to Simla. Currently, this train is very
popular
with `Babu Moshais' bound for Simla in the month of October(Durga Puja).
Earlier in the days of British Raj, when Calcutta was the capital, this
train used to carry the court and its offices to Simla, the then Summer
capital.

Considering that the train's arrival time at Delhi cannot be
disturbed(for
whatever reasons), If this train was to leave earlier than its scheduled
departure of 22.45, it would reach Kalka in the middle of night to leave
the
onward journey passengers stranded and freezing. It takes a leisurely
six
hours to cover the 268 Km and it may not be possible to stretch it
further.
This is the best that I can explain it.

Interestingly the 2 UP has a halt of 25 Min. only at Delhi Jn. and even
that
is given to facilitate a loco change.

Harsh

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: intro

Date: 27 May 1999 22:07:23 -0500


Hello Tim and Anita,

Very interesting. And welcome aboard! I'm sure you'll find the irfca and
INdian trains more than a mouthful, thanks to REALLY dedicated diehard
railnuts like Apurva,Bharat, Vijay etc., who also do underprevileged
nuts like us a MASSIVE favor by very kindly posting their photographs on
the web, for our viewing pleasure.
I had an experience similar to yours in 1992: we were traveling from
Madras to Madurai by mg train.I was doing that route after a long gap of

13 years. Needless to say, it was electric initially and diesels all the
way. Our train left Madras around 1630 behind electric power and changed
to diesel after dark. We soon retired to the rocking of the train and
the occasional toot of the diesel's horn.
My mother woke me up around 0330, as MAdurai is reached around 0410.My
wife was just stirring, my son (then a baby) was still asleep. The train
had halted, and it was dead silence all around.
All of a sudden, a loud 'choooooooo' chuk chuk chuk, a live steamer
puffing past, complete with hiss, whistle and all!
I was in heaven instantly, and jumped out of bed, but by the time the
steamer was gone.
Fortunately, the next day, after our morning activities, I spotted a YG
in the Madurai yard. After my family had gone to sleep, I went to the
yard in Madurai and had a gala time examining the YG closely,
photographing the motion, the fire etc.I did 13 shots in all.Ecstatic.
The engine was withdrawn a couple of months later.May it rust in peace.

1992 was a good year for trainspotting. My brother and I had been to
Daund to catch the ng ZEs on the Daund Baramati line, and were rather
aghast and pissed off when the train came in behind diesel power.Too
disappointed to even enjoy our lunch (Daund serves a pretty decent
vegetarian lunch in the restaurant by the way), we got into our train to
Poona, only to be distracted by a hissing sound. And what do we see? A
honest to goodness WG. In steam, shunting. A WG in steam, in 1992, esp
when the steam shed at Daund (a massive one it was, we had visited it in
1980) was supposed to have closed a few years ago! Unbelievable.

My second trip to heaven on that India trip. I managed to film the
engine toowith my cam, apart from the still pics.

I was THRILLED the IR is considering reviving steam on certain sectors.

Best regards.

Shankar

Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
>
> Tim & Anita Wakeman wrote:
> >
> > Hello list,
> >At
> > night I was not totally asleep.Then something jolted me out of the
bed
> > at the wee hours of the am.Mixed in with the occasional single blast
air
> > horns I could hear off in the distance,came a shrieking steam
whistle
> > through the night sky.At first I thought it was something else,but
then
> > it sounded again in departure.The light puffing of the locomotive
then
> > was audible.WOW!I thought.I knew there was a good chance steam was
still
> > here,but steam was still,RIGHT HERE!The search was on.More on that
stuff
> > later,if you all do'nt mind some stories.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: All India Railway Time-Table?

Date: 27 May 1999 22:07:31 -0500


Hi Apurva,
Point well taken. Indeed, its the wrong time.

Actually, I didn't know your eariler TT offer was
still open,and I was feeling rather delicate to ask.

Thankyou in advance for your help.

Best regards.

Shankar



Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> > Can anyone of ye India-based friends manage to lay your hands on a
full
> > and detailed bradshaw? I'd be highly obliged. I'll send you the
funds in
> > Indian rupees the monent you can tell me how much.
>
> Shankar, by July/ August/Sept, it will be soon 'that time of the year'
when the new
> tts start arriving and your truly would be pleading with the vendor on
Pune platform
> 1 to PLEAAASE keep a copy when it comes. Wait till then ? This is the
wrong time to
> ask.
>
> Apurva

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Hubli - Ankola line

Date: 27 May 1999 22:07:35 -0500


Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> >
> There is also some talk of a Kolhapur - Ratnagiri line but nothing
concrete has
> come up yet.
>
Hello,

Ratnagiri-Kolhapur line? Thats interesting.
There was another line planned between Chinchwad (Poona) and Roha,to
connect Poona to the KR, but there has been no reference to it in the
last two budget speeches. Kalmadi had announced it actually.
But if the Poona-Ernakulam train can still meet the KR by taking the
Miraj-Madgaon route, then the line to Roha may not be absolutely
necessay, except to serve coastal Maharashtra.
Are they planning a line between Poona and Nasik via Shirdi?
Best regards.
Shankar

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: MLR steam loco.

Date: 27 May 1999 22:07:41 -0500


Hello.

Thats a MOST interesting and encouraging bit of news. Thanks Viraf,
made my day.

Which brings us to another very interesting point, a positive aspect to
the decline of steam. Apparently, everyone misses steam, esp the railway
employees themselves. The fact that the administration is dumping them
wholesale is another matter altogether.

how else do you explain unrelated steamers being plinted in totally
unrelated locations?
F from teh Kurduwadi-Latur line at POONA, a PL from the Parlakhimedi
line in Orrisa at BANGALORE, A 'C' class 4-6-2 of the Darjeeling line at
the Nehru centre in BOMBAY etc etc.

This one certainly takes the cake.First, its to be LIVE, secondly, its
sponsored by the administration, and third, its resurrected from the
dead.

Bravo IR! We are proud of you.

Best regards.

Shankar

VIRAF P.. MULLA wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> It seems that there was an article in last week's Afternoon newspaper
that
> the plinthed Matheran Steam Locomotive in Parel works has been
completely
> overhauled & will be shifted to Gwalior where it will work the Gwalior
-
> Sheopur Kalan line.
>
> But what my good friend I.S.Anand informs me is that the photograph
> accompaning this article showed a Kalka - Simla Diesel being loaded on
a
> flat truck.
>
> Harsh any idea? Appu have you read this article?
>
> Have a nice day
>
> Viraf
>
> ==========================
> Viraf Mulla
> C-20/14, Jeevan Bima Nagar,
> Borivali (West)
> Mumbai 400103
> Tel: +91-22-8954510
> E-mail: sncf@godrej.email
> ==========================

From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: Track through Rajaji National Park

Date: 27 May 1999 22:19:16 -0500



> INTERNET WILDLIFE ACTIVISTS TARGET RAILWAYS

Sorry guys but also as a lover of animals I am on the Wildlife Activists
side.

Viraf

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Pune/Coimbatore as Terminus?

Date: 27 May 1999 23:29:08 -0500


Pune is the 8th largest city in the country with a population of 35
lakhs. Pune has
a large industrial base, many defense, government and educational
institutions. We
have large numbers of non Maharashtrians (including yours truly) who
have mad the
lovely city of Pune as their home. So we need trains out of Pune to all
parts of the
country. Pune division runs 1077/78 PA - JAT Jhelum Express, 1095/96 PA
- ADI
Ahimsa, 1029/30 PA - HWH Azad Hind and the PA - MUI (Manduadih or rather
BSB/VNS -
Varanasi as Vijay has mentioned) Gyan Ganga. Apart from these the
stopping
passengers to Wadi and Nanded also home to Pune.
Any train out of Mumbai will have a small quota for the Pune passengers,
also the
arrival and departure times at Pune may not be suitable as the train
really is meant
for the Mumbai passengers. The KR has caused diversion of the trains to
Kerala,
hence the Pune passengers deserve a new train to ERS. Please note that
all trains
out of Pune run packed and although they are not daily (except Jhelum)
they would
continue to run full even if the frequency was made daily. The only
train that does
not run packed from Pune is the Shatabdi to Mumbai.

> First you had
> the Coimbatore-Rajkot Express, recently the Coimbatore-Kurla Express
> started last year. Coimbatore-Bangalore Inter City Express is also
another
> recent introduction. Maybe more are in the pipeline.

The CLAT - CBE express is the extended 1013/14 CLAT - SBC express. This
was possible
due to opening of a recently regauged track between Bangalore to the
trunk via
Hindupuri (correct name ?), so instead of waiting full day at Bangalore
the rake
goes upto Coimbatore. This also compensates for the diversion of
Netravati express
via the KR. As a railway enthusiast, I can only feel pleased that more
and more
trains are being introduced which run to full capacity.

The amount of traffic that Pune generates can be gauged from the calls
that can be
made to the interactive reservation status system. The number at Pune is
636666, you
have to dial in the number of the train from the telephone keyboard,
date of travel
and the class you intend to travel. In most cases the wait list is well
over 200 -
300 while the earliest date with a clear ticket is after 45 - 60 days.

Apurva

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