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From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Electric Double-heading ?

Date: 18 May 1999 02:28:17 -0500


Just wondering, are any electric
passenger trains on IR worked
double-headed ?
Saw the Mumbai-Pune Sinhagadh come
in the other day with double
WCAM3 power, possibly due to
a failed unit though.
--
JS
--

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: 2nd longest MG run

Date: 18 May 1999 04:38:52 -0500



>
>Guess what?!! There is a direct MG train from Samastipur to Tezpur -
the
>5716 exp. (from Samastipur to Tezpur) covers the 1022 km. distance in
about
>33 1/2 hrs. - commercial speed 30.51 kmph!! The 5715 exp. takes a
couple
of
>hours more. So, this should be the 2nd longest MG run on IR. Of
course,
>this info. is from the Dec. 1998 Bradshaw, things could have changed
since
>then.


5715/16 runs upto Alipurduar only now. This is given even in the Aug '97
NFR
TT. The MG link between Kamakhya and Rangiya has finished long time back
for
passenger traffic. I suspect that this line is utilised now purely for
oil
traffic. Or has it been taken up for BG doubling yet. Joydeep??

I keep telling you know, Bradshaw is bradshaw after all. Nothing like
the
good
old IR TTs(banked by IR magazine) for an upto date information.

The other part of your mail on the destruction of MG on NER and NFR over
the
years was very interesting and informative.

Harsh

From: Dr. S. Parthasarathy <>

Subject: KOnkan Railways

Date: 18 May 1999 06:42:02 -0500


Pardon me for my ignorance.

What exactly (officially) are the terminal stations of the Konkan
Railway (from where to where) ? Is this enitre route complete and
operational for passenger traffic already ? Is the route electrified ?

Please let me know where I can find more about Konkan Railway. I tried
to visit their page sometime back, but it was incomplete.

...partha

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Electric Double-heading ?

Date: 18 May 1999 06:54:29 -0500


I once snapped up the Gitanjali Exp. with two WAM4s. In fact, you can
look
at <A HREF="http://www.xula.edu/~vbalasub/train2.html">http://www.xula.edu/~vbalasub/train2.html</A> for this photo.

Vijay

>From: Jayant S <sank@telco.email
>Reply-To: sank@telco.email
>To: IR List <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Electric Double-heading ?
>Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:58:17 +0530
>
>Just wondering, are any electric
>passenger trains on IR worked
>double-headed ?
>Saw the Mumbai-Pune Sinhagadh come
>in the other day with double
>WCAM3 power, possibly due to
>a failed unit though.
>--
>JS
>--


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: 2nd longest MG run

Date: 18 May 1999 07:05:23 -0500




>From: "Harsh Vardhan" <champa@del3.email
>Reply-To: "Harsh Vardhan" <hvc@vsnl.email
>To: "Vijay Balasubramanian" <vijay_642@hotmail.email <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: 2nd longest MG run
>Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:08:52 +0530
>
>
> >
> >Guess what?!! There is a direct MG train from Samastipur to Tezpur -
the
> >5716 exp. (from Samastipur to Tezpur) covers the 1022 km. distance in

>about
> >33 1/2 hrs. - commercial speed 30.51 kmph!! The 5715 exp. takes a
couple
>of
> >hours more. So, this should be the 2nd longest MG run on IR. Of
course,
> >this info. is from the Dec. 1998 Bradshaw, things could have changed
>since
> >then.
>
>
>5715/16 runs upto Alipurduar only now. This is given even in the Aug
'97
>NFR
>TT. The MG link between Kamakhya and Rangiya has finished long time
back
>for
>passenger traffic. I suspect that this line is utilised now purely for
oil
>traffic. Or has it been taken up for BG doubling yet. Joydeep??
>
>I keep telling you know, Bradshaw is bradshaw after all. Nothing like
the
>good
>old IR TTs(banked by IR magazine) for an upto date information.
>

Harsh, did you check this with a 1998 NEFR TT? It seems unlikely that
the
Bradshaw info. would be outdated by more than a year!! Is it possible
that
this train got extended beyond Alipurduar within the last year? I will
check my 1998 TAAG for any info. on this train. Of course, the best
source
would be a 1998 NEFR timetable. If anyone has that, please check this
train's route.

You are correct about the MG link between Rangiya and Kamakhya - no MG
passenger train uses this. In fact, there are only two trains that go
beyond New Bongaigaon - the Alipurduar-Rangapara N. Passenger and the
Samastipur-Tezpur exp. - both use the MG line till Rangiya and then
branch
off towards Rangapara N.


>The other part of your mail on the destruction of MG on NER and NFR
over
>the
>years was very interesting and informative.

Thanks!!


Vijay


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: KOnkan Railways

Date: 18 May 1999 07:13:59 -0500




>From: "Dr. S. Parthasarathy" <m05@anna.email
>To: Members <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: KOnkan Railways
>Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 15:42:02 +0200
>
>Pardon me for my ignorance.
>
>What exactly (officially) are the terminal stations of the Konkan
>Railway (from where to where) ? Is this enitre route complete and
>operational for passenger traffic already ? Is the route electrified ?

The Konkan Railway (KR) extends from Roha to Mangalore - a distance of
760
km. Could someone clarify whether Kankanadi-Mangalore belongs to SR or
KR?
If it belongs to SR, then KR is bounded by Roha on the north and
Kankanadi
on the south. The entire route is operational for passenger traffic.
It is
a non-electrified, single-line stretch with a speed potential of 160
kmph,
however, present speeds are limited to 100 kmph. (or is it 110?)

>
>Please let me know where I can find more about Konkan Railway. I tried
>to visit their page sometime back, but it was incomplete.
>
>....partha

The KR resource page (maintained by Rajan Mathew) has gone -
<A HREF="http://www.cyberdezigns.com/konkanrail/index.html">http://www.cyberdezigns.com/konkanrail/index.html</A>.
Rajan, have you shifted this to a new site?

For train schedules, you can look at
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gidduk/timetable.html">http://members.tripod.com/gidduk/timetable.html</A>

Vijay


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From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Bankers !!!

Date: 18 May 1999 07:17:37 -0500




>From: "Anand Krishnan" <krish_nand@hotmail.email
>To: iti@vsnl.email
>CC: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Bankers !!!
>Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 17:01:29 IST
>
>Hi,
> There is a changeover at KZJ for the Bhagyanagar exp. But one
fact
>surprises me. Sirpur Kagaznagar is on the Delhi-Chennai trunk route and
it
>is energised . Why should a WDM be employed when a WAM can do its job
>throughout. I will find out more on this and get back to you all.

Why are they using two locos? Why not use a Push-Pull train similar to
the Sapthagiri exp. with a WAM at one end and a driver's cab at the
other?

Vijay



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From: Steven Sliwka <>

Subject: Indian Railways Magazine

Date: 18 May 1999 09:56:30 -0500


Dear Members
 
I have heard about a Magazine dedicated to the subject of Indian Railways.  And what does it contain?  Can I subscribe to it even though I live in the United States?  If I remember right, I think it was around 16$ American Dollars per year.  Can anyone help?  If I could subscribe to it, how long would I have to wait to receive it?
 

From: Anand Krishnan <>

Subject: Re: Bankers !!!

Date: 18 May 1999 10:01:29 -0500


Hi,
There is a changeover at KZJ for the Bhagyanagar exp. But one fact

surprises me. Sirpur Kagaznagar is on the Delhi-Chennai trunk route and
it
is energised . Why should a WDM be employed when a WAM can do its job
throughout. I will find out more on this and get back to you all. Infact

there is a one minute stoppage for AP Express at Sirpur Kagaznagar. This
is
perplexing !!!!

Kind regards,
Anand


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From: Iain A Fraser <>

Subject: Barsi Lt Rly

Date: 18 May 1999 11:24:40 -0500


Hi

Can someone update me on the regauging of the Barsi section from 2-6
to broad gauge which I believe is underway.....

Thanks

Iain

Aerolite Booktraders
Railway Book Dealer
<A HREF="http://www.aerolite.u-net.com">http://www.aerolite.u-net.com</A>

Listmaster: LNER Mailing list
<A HREF="http://www.bulleid.force9.co.uk/lneeg/">http://www.bulleid.force9.co.uk/lneeg/</A>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Innovation on rails

Date: 18 May 1999 11:47:58 -0500


Hello,
The Lifeline Express is one innovation. The Exhibition on Rails is
another.In fact, I thought the erstwhile Palace of Wheels was a terrific
innovation too: I mean the original mg rake, with cars from the
erstwhile maharajahs' private railways et al.Too bad it now runs with a
bg rake with nothing to boast of, except for the through-the-roof fares.
One more innovation is on the Kalka-Simla Railway: the railcars: in
effect, buses converted into rail vehicles. On the conventional stock, I
understand the seats can be swivelled round for the return journey.

I used to follow foreign railways closely till I moved out of India. Now
that I am in Dubai, I turn more towards the IR: my interest in foreign
railways has diminished somewhat. (but is by no means finished!)

SOme of the innovations overseas I vaguely remember having read about
are:

1.A church coach in pre-revolution Russia.In fact the car was complete
with steeples and and pointed roof!
2.A step shaped single-car train in Switzerland. The car traverses a
steep incline of 1 in 8 or something, so the seats (and hence the car)
are built in a step form, so that the passengers don't imagine they are
sliding backwards.
3.While on the subject of inclines, the steam engines of the Mt. Snowdon
Railway in the UK have their boilers fitted in an inclined position.The
idea is, when teh train is climbing, and hence moving angularly, the
boilers remain in a vertical position!
4.A train used as a market (fish,meat etc) in Quito in Ecuador.
5.Heres one from Dr.Walker's own territory:Australia.
As you know, there is the Nullarbor plain in the Australian desert.The
rail line there incidentally is DEAD STRAIGHT (though not level) for 295
(or is it 395?) km at a stretch.
There is a weekly supermarket train which passes by once a week for the
benefit of railway officials who live along the line.Popularly known as
the TEA AND SUGAR TRAIN, it carries a full supply of groceries, eggs
etc. which the lineside railroad employees can purchase.
Hows that for innovation?
Best regards.
Shankar

Dr. S. Parthasarathy wrote:
>
> Our country has the opportunity to innovate. Here is a story about
using
> railways for one such innovation.
>
> >From THE HINDU of May 14th:
>
> ***
> WARANGAL, MAY 13. The Lifeline Express,

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: catch sidings, oddities and glories, toy trains, and more

Date: 18 May 1999 11:48:04 -0500


Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
>
> Dear Harsh and everyone,
> Omnibus letter! I want to catch up on two or three threads
today.

A MOST INTERSTING MAIL, I MUST SAY. I READ IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER
AGAIN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INVALUABLE VIEWS.

> 1. Catch sidings.

> Back in 1973, I was travelling on the Arrakonam-Guntakal line, and saw
a
> spot where a westbound train of hoppers, headed by a diesel (probably
a
> WDM2, but identification wasn't easy!) had overrun a catch siding -- I
> presume following a brake failure -- and burnt out. The remains of the
train
> were resting on the embankment that followed the siding -- it dropped
away
> quite sharply -- and were in line. They had obviously just been left;
> presumably it wasn't worth anyone's while to retrieve them.

YES,I'VE SEEN THAT TOO.SEVERAL TIMES IN FACT.PITIABLE SIGHT THAT BURNT
OUT DIESEL. ITS A WDM/2 ALTIGHT. I WONDER HOW MANY RAILWAY CARS THEY
COULD RECOVER IF ONE CAN CLIMB DOWN THE BHORE GHATS BETWEEN BOMBAY AND
POONA? (ON A LIGHTER VEIN OF COURSE, BUT I REMEMBER AT LEAST TWO
INSTANCES OF FREIGHT TRAINS GOING DOWN THE GHATS.

> 2. WP Pacifics. Why on earth would we want to call them
oddities? I
> think we need a special category for GLORIES. The WPs certainly were.
INDEED. I THINK THE WPS WERE AMONG THE MOST HANDSOME ENGINES BUILT. THE
LARGE STAR AROUND THE HEADLIGHT MULTIPLIED THE BEAUTY. THANK GOODNESS
THAT RIDICULOUS FLOWER HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE SMOKEBOX OF THE WP AT
THE NRM, DELHI.THANKS TO HARSH'S EFFORTS.

> , but perpetuated many of the faults of
> contemporary English design -- and that hurt, as in the case of the
XBs,
> where the Bihta accident cost over 100 lives. The wartime AWD/CWD/AWC
> engines were a real eye-opener -- rugged, simple, accessible, and
reliable,
> all the things the British engines weren't.

INDEED. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT THE BESA DESIGNS WERE PARTICULARLY
MISREABLE PERFORMERS, WHICH IS WHAT LARGELY PROMPTED THE INDIANS TO GO
TOWARDS THE US.

The Indian Railways engineers
> set to and designed a suite of their own engines along the same lines,
and
> the postwar "standards" were the result. First-class engines, entirely
> suitable for the times. The whole series is a glory, with the WPs the
> standard-bearer. I do hope they keep enough of all of them -- they'll
be in
> demand.

I UNDERSTAND THE LAST BREED OF STANDARD INDIA BUILT ENGINES (WP,. WG
ETC) WERE THE CULMINATION OF THE BEST IN BRITISH AND AMERICAN DESIGN.
IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS, THE YG CLASS NEVER FAILS TO ASTONISH ME. I
BELIEVE THEY ARE OF GERMAN ORIGIN, THOUGH BALDWIN ALSO DID BUILD A FEW,
BEFORE CHITTARANJAN TOOK OVER. IT WAS EASY TO DISTINGUISH THE GERMAN
BUILT YG FROM THE BALDWIN ONE: THE GERMAN ONES HAD THE SHRILL 'CHOOOOO'
WHISTLE, WHILE THE BALDWINS HAD THAT TYPICAL AMERICAN HUMMING WHISTLE.

> 3. Oddities -- or at least unique items. What about retiring
rooms?
> Most railways have waiting rooms, but I have never come across
sleeping
> accomodation as part of the station amenities outside India. (Some
stations
> overseas did have attached hotels, of course).

HERE ARE A FEW MORE ODDITIES OR RARITIES:
-AT 70O HP, THE NG ZDM/5 DIESELS ARE CONSIDERED THE MOST POWERFUL NARROW
GAUGE DIESELS IN THE WORLD.
-WE'VE ALREADY RAISED THE SUBLECT OF THAT DESIGNING GENIUS CALTHROPP IN
THIS FORUM. THANKS TO HIM, THE INDIAN 2' 6" NG HAS A LOADING GAUGE (AND
HENCE CARRYING CAPACITY) ONLY MARGINALLY SMALLER THAN THAT OF THE
STANDARD INDIAN MG.
-INDIA;S ONLY FUNICULAR RAILWAY (PULLED BY CABLE, JUST LIKE A LIFT LAID
ON ITS SIDE) IS AT PALANI IN SOUTH INDIA. THERE ARE TWO LINES: THE
SECOND ONE WAS BUILT IN THE 1980S WITH JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY, AND TWO
RAKES: ONE GOES UP WHILE THE OTHER COMES DOWN. THE RAILWAY IS PRIVATELY
OWNED, AND RUNS FROM THE BASE OF THE PALANI HILL TO THE HILLTOP HINDU
TEMPLE.
(OK OK, I KNOW THERE ARE SOME CABLE HAULED NG WAGONS OPERATING IN THE
COAL MINES OF EASTERN INDIA, BUT THOSE ARE LIMITED TO THE MINES ONLY.)
-THE NG LINES CENTRED AROUND DABHOI IN GUJARAT ARE REPUTED TO MAKE UP
THE WORLD'S MOST DENSELY WORKED NG RAIL SYSTEM.

> 4. Well tanks. These were not uncommon on industrial engines,
> especially those built in the 19th century; in fact quite a few Indian
> industrials from firms such as Hudson, Orenstein and Koppel, etc.,
have/had
> them. What's really unique about the DHR engines is not simply the
> combination of saddle and well -- rare enough, it's true -- but the
fact
> that the saddle tanks are so short that they have been nicknamed
"collar
> tanks". Also, they were placed well forward so as to keep weight on
the
> front drivers.

HMMM: VERY INTERESTING.

> 5. Transition couplers were quite common overseas, generally in
the
> form of links on the knuckle couplers, although knuckle castings that
fit
> over the hook of screw couplings are also not uncommon; in Britain, a
> "drophead" coupling that hangs down from the screw hook and can be
swung up
> and locked in place is/was in use in passenger stock with Pullman
gangways.
>
> 7. Martin's and Mcleod's light railways. There were quite a lot
of
> these, and the best source is the Railway Board's Indian Railways
> Constructed and in Progress, and the compendium History of Defunct
Railways;
> there is also a roundup in Hughes n.g. books. Martin's built several
lines
> in Bengal, of which the 2ft gauge Howrah-Amta and Howrah-Sheakhala
were best
> known. These closed on 1/1/1971. The other Bengal lines were
> Bukhtiarpur-Bihar (closed 1962, replaced by BG) and Baraset-Basirhat
(closed
> 1955), both 2ft 6in gauge. They also had the Shahdara-Saharanpur line,
> closed 1970, later replaced by BG. Their last two lines were the
> Arrah-Sasaram (closed 1978) and the Futwah-Islampur, closed 1986.
McLeod's
> had the Ahmadpur-Katwa and Burdwan-Katwa lines, which were transferred
to
> the ER in 1966-7; the Bankura-Damoodar River line, which went to SER
in
> 1967, and the Kalighat-Falta, which was closed in 1955. The other
major
> private line was Rohtas Industries Dehri-Tiura Pipradih line, the
> Dehri-Rohtas Light Railway. This may still be running. There were
numerous
> small industrial lines, but these were not common carriers.
> 8. I think the longest NG run would be Latur Road-Miraj on the
BLR,
> which is 250 miles or so. However, no train did it in one hit, as all
> services originated from Kurduvadi.
> 9. Why does Sridhar think the Ooty rack engines "will be phased
out
> by 2000"? Certainly they are in appalling shape, but SOMETHING
> has to haul trains on the rack, and rack diseasels have an appalling
> reliability record. I think Railway Board will have to bite the bullet
and
> buy some engines. And I think they'll have to come from SLM.
> That's enough for now!
> Cheers to all
> Ken Walker
THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING IN OUR GROUP DR.WALKER. YOU ARE AN
INVALUABLE SOURCE OF A WEALTH OF INFORMATION, MOST OF IT HITHERTO QUITE
UNKNOWN.
I'VE PERSONALLY LEARNT A LOT FROM YOUR MAILS, AND AM SURE THE OTHERS
WILL AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY AS WELL.
WHENEVER YOUR BOOK DOES COME OUT, PLEASE DO RESERVE THE FIRST COPY FOR
ME!
BEST REGARDS.
SHANKAR
>
> -

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Rail Wheel Query

Date: 18 May 1999 11:48:12 -0500


Jayant S wrote:
>
> Not directly IR-related:
>
> I was looking at some photos of the
> Spanish Talgo wheelsets (www.talgo.com).
> It appears that the wheels are not
> rigidly connected by axles, but are
> mounted on small stub axles individually.
>
> SOME OF THE MORE RECENT TALGOS IN SPAIN HAVE A RUDIMENTARY TILTING
MECHANISM. ARE THE STUBS DUE TO THAT?

BEST REGARDS.
SHANKAR

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Kolhapur-Tirupati Express

Date: 18 May 1999 11:48:26 -0500


Hello John,
Thank you for your mail, but what exactly do you mean by 'subscribe to
Indian Trains'?

If you mean join our e-mail group (the IRFCA: Indian Railways Fan Club
Assocn), you simply have to send an e-mail to the manager of this group,
to: acha@ss.email
or to irfca-request@cs.email

We will be happy to welcome you on board.

Best regards.
Shankar


HICJHH@aol.email wrote:
>
> How may I subscribe to Indian Trains? Thanks. John Hudson Portland,
> Oregon, USA.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Trainspotting....Novice

Date: 18 May 1999 11:48:32 -0500


Hello,
Fear not my friend, you are in capable hands. Wit super railnuts like
Apurva, Sundar, Vijay and other to guide you.
And fear not, anything to do with Indian Railways and trains in India is
very much within the scope of this group. YOu will realize this as we go
along.

If you want to limit yourself to the Poona-Bombay area, you can spot the
following:

1. WCM/1,2,4,5 (and if you damned lucky,6),
WCG/2, WCAM/3. All at Bombay VT, Poona.
WCAM/2Ps also occasionally do come to Poona, but if you go to Bombay
Central, you can see them more in number, so also the earlier WCAM/1s.

2. WDS/4 shunters can be seen universally.

3,At Poona, you can also catch the d.m.u.s which go from thence to
Baramati. d.m.us. of a different kind (a conventional rake with a WDM/2
coupled midrake) can be spotted at Diva Junction near Bombay,

4. WDM/2, and WDS/6 heavy duty shunters can be found at Poona, Daund in
numbers. I understand Bombay too sees several diesel workings these day,
whith freights and trains that use the Konkan Railway.

5. e.u.u.s of course are only too ubiquitous, but note that the Jessops
e.m.us. have a more rounded profile while teh ICF built ones have a more
boxy or squarish profile.

6. ERU overhead equipment inspection cars can be seen at Kalyan.

7. For a taste of 2' 0" ng check out the NDM/1 (and more recently NDM/6
at Neral Junction.

Anything else I've missed out, gang?

Best regards.
Shankar


JAIGOPAL_B wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm a newly joined member of this list. Trains are my passion and I
can
> spend hours doing anything related to them. I enjoy creating fictional
> trains on some routes and I have a software (CATRAIN) on which I
design rail
> loops for trains to run (It is actually a software for model trains).
>
> The thing is that though I travel very frequently (Bombay-Pune
mostly), only
> now have I attempted to try engine-spotting, but I am afraid the only
ones I
> see at Pune (this is where I spend most of my week) are the WCAMs or
the
> WDM2s.
>
> So how do I go about spotting other types...or are they rarely to be
seen
> near Pune/Bombay?
>
> Excuse this mail if it is not in the scope of this list!
>
> Thanks,
> Jai

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: electrified NG

Date: 18 May 1999 11:48:38 -0500


Hello,
You need to be careful, Jayant.
Outside of the sub-continent, especially in Europe and the US,
particularly in the US, anything smaller than the standard gauge of
4' 8.5" is termed as 'narrow gauge'. This includes the mg and the 3'6"
gauges as well.
That way, there are n number of 'narrow gauge' electrified lines,
including the mg electrified lines between Madras Egmore and Villupuram.

Indian-ly speaking however, the answer is NO, as Harsh said before.At
any rate, the ng in India was built as feeder lines or opted for in
areas with very little population. In many cases, the ng line was simply
a construction line which stayed on.
The only exception was teh ng centred around Dabhoi, which is considered
by many as the most densely worked ng rail system in the world.
As such, ng hardly warranted electrification.

If its any consolation, I understand some ng BATTERY locomotives were
used on the Gwalior lines for a while in between. (NBM/1).
Well, battery locos are electrics of sorts aren't they? Only, they
carry their own supply of electricity.

Best regards.
Shankar


Jayant S wrote:
>
> > > >Is there any electrified narrow gauge in India?
> > I suppose the only place in the world where electric
> > NGs exist would be Switzerland.
>
> There is a 2'6" gauge electrified line in
> Austria, I think. Will check.
>
> --
> JS
> --

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Egmore-Tambaram

Date: 18 May 1999 13:42:57 -0500


Hi Folks,

Here's an interesting shot of the quadruple-track section between
Chennai Beach and Tambaram (from Sundar's collection).
<A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sundar/itg/pics/mypic43.jpg">http://members.xoom.com/sundar/itg/pics/mypic43.jpg</A> What station is
this? Here is a classic example of a gauntleted track allowing both MG
and BG trains so as to increase platform utilization. Is it true that
MG catenary wires are thinner than BG ones? If so, then they might have
changed the catenary for the gauntleted portion. Note the two
suburban-only lines on the right side - the traction masts are similar
to those used on DC sections, confirming that this section used to be DC
(1500 V).

Vijay

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: catch sidings, oddities and glories, toy trains, and more

Date: 18 May 1999 16:57:24 -0500


Hi Shankar,
Many YGs and YPs were built in India -- both Chittaranjan and
TELCO --
and in general it is the earlier engines which were built abroad, before
indigenous capability was at full blast. It's probably that which
results in
these absurd rumours that the engines were DESIGNED abroad -- which
slights
IR's engineers quite unwarrantedly. I think the point to be made is that
the
post-war designs -- whatever their inspiration -- were for the first
time
properly Indian, designed for Indian fuels and conditions.
Re the WPs, the smokebox decorations varied a good deal. Some had
the
star -- which I always liked best -- and some even had a pressed-metal
version rivetted to the smokebox door (CR had some, I know). There was a
"flower" design with multi-coloured, multiple petals, often of differing
lengths, and some stars had interpolated rays, shorter than the main
ones,
and often coloured. SER often did the nose cones in plain silver or
black --
still very impressive. Paint colours varied a lot, too: CR went for
apple
green, SR had blue or grey, some SCR engines had two-tone blue, and
there
was always plain black.
See Hughes' books for the loco history, and Coles' writings on
low-grade coal. Hughes is a bit coy about the shortcomings of the BESA
and
IRS designs, but the thing to remember is that there were the two
phases:
BESA designs of 1903-10, built until the 1940s (SG,HP,HG series), and
the
IRS designs of 1925, built late 1920s-1940s (XA, XB, XC, XD, XE,XT;
YB.YC,YD,YF,YK; ZB,ZE). The IRS designs had wide fireboxes to burn poor
coal, but had other design faults, notably bad side control (hence the
Bihta
accident) and poor steaming due to inferior front-end design. The
post-war
W and Y series avoided these faults largely. The BESAs were remarkably
durable given their faults, but only a handful of the original 2 dozen
or so
designs were actually built in any numbers, or lasted very long.
Thanks for your comments, but remember I also get a lot out of
the
group: not only current information and interesting sidelights, but also
lots of other info I didn't know. It's a two-way process and we all
benefit.
I'm afraid the book is still some way off, but the more prospective
buyers
the better!
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
To: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <kjw_meh@powerup.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, 19 May 1999 4:52
Subject: Re: catch sidings, oddities and glories, toy trains, and more


>A MOST INTERSTING MAIL, I MUST SAY. I READ IT OVER AND OVER AND OVER
>AGAIN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR INVALUABLE VIEWS.
>
YES,I'VE SEEN THAT TOO.SEVERAL TIMES IN FACT.PITIABLE SIGHT THAT BURNT
>OUT DIESEL. ITS A WDM/2 ALTIGHT. I WONDER HOW MANY RAILWAY CARS THEY
>COULD RECOVER IF ONE CAN CLIMB DOWN THE BHORE GHATS BETWEEN BOMBAY AND
>POONA? (ON A LIGHTER VEIN OF COURSE, BUT I REMEMBER AT LEAST TWO
>INSTANCES OF FREIGHT TRAINS GOING DOWN THE GHATS.
>
>INDEED. I THINK THE WPS WERE AMONG THE MOST HANDSOME ENGINES BUILT. THE
>LARGE STAR AROUND THE HEADLIGHT MULTIPLIED THE BEAUTY. THANK GOODNESS
>THAT RIDICULOUS FLOWER HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE SMOKEBOX OF THE WP AT
>THE NRM, DELHI.THANKS TO HARSH'S EFFORTS.
>
>INDEED. I READ SOMEWHERE THAT THE BESA DESIGNS WERE PARTICULARLY
>MISREABLE PERFORMERS, WHICH IS WHAT LARGELY PROMPTED THE INDIANS TO GO
>TOWARDS THE US.
>
>I UNDERSTAND THE LAST BREED OF STANDARD INDIA BUILT ENGINES (WP,. WG
>ETC) WERE THE CULMINATION OF THE BEST IN BRITISH AND AMERICAN DESIGN.
>IN THE MIDST OF ALL THIS, THE YG CLASS NEVER FAILS TO ASTONISH ME. I
>BELIEVE THEY ARE OF GERMAN ORIGIN, THOUGH BALDWIN ALSO DID BUILD A FEW,
>BEFORE CHITTARANJAN TOOK OVER. IT WAS EASY TO DISTINGUISH THE GERMAN
>BUILT YG FROM THE BALDWIN ONE: THE GERMAN ONES HAD THE SHRILL 'CHOOOOO'
>WHISTLE, WHILE THE BALDWINS HAD THAT TYPICAL AMERICAN HUMMING WHISTLE.
>
>HERE ARE A FEW MORE ODDITIES OR RARITIES:
>-AT 70O HP, THE NG ZDM/5 DIESELS ARE CONSIDERED THE MOST POWERFUL
NARROW
>GAUGE DIESELS IN THE WORLD.
>-WE'VE ALREADY RAISED THE SUBLECT OF THAT DESIGNING GENIUS CALTHROPP IN
>THIS FORUM. THANKS TO HIM, THE INDIAN 2' 6" NG HAS A LOADING GAUGE (AND
>HENCE CARRYING CAPACITY) ONLY MARGINALLY SMALLER THAN THAT OF THE
>STANDARD INDIAN MG.
>-INDIA;S ONLY FUNICULAR RAILWAY (PULLED BY CABLE, JUST LIKE A LIFT LAID
>ON ITS SIDE) IS AT PALANI IN SOUTH INDIA. THERE ARE TWO LINES: THE
>SECOND ONE WAS BUILT IN THE 1980S WITH JAPANESE TECHNOLOGY, AND TWO
>RAKES: ONE GOES UP WHILE THE OTHER COMES DOWN. THE RAILWAY IS PRIVATELY
>OWNED, AND RUNS FROM THE BASE OF THE PALANI HILL TO THE HILLTOP HINDU
>TEMPLE.
>(OK OK, I KNOW THERE ARE SOME CABLE HAULED NG WAGONS OPERATING IN THE
>COAL MINES OF EASTERN INDIA, BUT THOSE ARE LIMITED TO THE MINES ONLY.)
>-THE NG LINES CENTRED AROUND DABHOI IN GUJARAT ARE REPUTED TO MAKE UP
>THE WORLD'S MOST DENSELY WORKED NG RAIL SYSTEM.
>
>HMMM: VERY INTERESTING.
>
>THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR BEING IN OUR GROUP DR.WALKER. YOU ARE AN
>INVALUABLE SOURCE OF A WEALTH OF INFORMATION, MOST OF IT HITHERTO QUITE
>UNKNOWN.
>I'VE PERSONALLY LEARNT A LOT FROM YOUR MAILS, AND AM SURE THE OTHERS
>WILL AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY AS WELL.
>WHENEVER YOUR BOOK DOES COME OUT, PLEASE DO RESERVE THE FIRST COPY FOR
>ME!
>BEST REGARDS.
>SHANKAR
>>
>> -
>

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Barsi Lt Rly

Date: 18 May 1999 20:12:42 -0500


Iain A Fraser wrote:

> Can someone update me on the regauging of the Barsi section from 2-6
> to broad gauge which I believe is underway.....

Last I heard from a friend the NG service is
still running between Latur and Miraj. Regauging
is apparently slow and not on a high priority.
Can anyone comment further ?

--
JS
--

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Rail Wheel Query

Date: 18 May 1999 20:28:16 -0500


Shankar wrote:
> Jayant S wrote:
> > Not directly IR-related:
Still so, apologies !
> > I was looking at some photos of the
> > Spanish Talgo wheelsets (www.talgo.com).
> > It appears that the wheels are not
> > rigidly connected by axles, but are
> > mounted on small stub axles individually.
> SOME OF THE MORE RECENT TALGOS IN SPAIN HAVE A RUDIMENTARY
> TILTING MECHANISM.ARE THE STUBS DUE TO THAT?

The wheels are individually mounted at least on
those Talgo sets that negotiate the gauge changing
equipment between France and Spain: from 5'6"
to 4'8.5". The only other such case I have heard
of is a recent development in Japan.

Would this be a useful technology once the
trans Asia-Europe rail link is completed ?
Just daydreaming......

Which still leaves my original question: how
do Talgo wheelsets function without solid
axles ? Anyone in the Vancouver area ?


--
JS
--

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