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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: ED powers for the KK

Date: 07 May 1999 10:37:03 -0500


>
> I travelled by the Karnataka from Delhi to Daund (whence I had to
change
> trains for Poona) in Nov. 1997.
> The train left Delhi behind electric power.

Which electric power ?

> Twin WDM/2s took over somewhere at Itarsi, I think, and when I
detrained
> at Daund, the train was still diesel hauled. I was givento understand
> the diesels contiue all the way till Bangalore.

How else would the train travel on an unelectrified line ?

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: 24Coaches and some SR news

Date: 07 May 1999 11:18:39 -0500


>My colleague has just returned from Ernakulum to Pune on the 1082 Up
Jayanti
>Janata
>Express, has told me that the '82 Up comes to Ernakulum north and not
>Ernakulum Jn.
>Any one with a better insight / explanation ?
>
>Apurva
>
>Has Ernakulam Town been renamed to Ernakulam North? The former is a
'bypass'
>station for Kerala-bound trains via Kottayam
>wishing to bypass Ernakulam (and avoid direction reversal?). Only a
few
>trains such as the Kerala exp., Venad Exp., Mumbai-Kanyakumari Exp.
(not
>anymore?)
>go all the way till Ernakulam and then proceed towards Trivandrum via
>Kottayam. Other trains to touch Ernakulam with no direction reversal
are
>trains that serve Cochin and Alleppey. BTW, is the name Jayanti Janata
still
>being used for 1081/1082?
>
>Vijay

From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU

Date: 07 May 1999 11:42:13 -0500




Hi Apurva,

RPC (Resistance Power Control) in motorcoaches of EMUs are very
much prone to fire, especially if there are too many start/stops
for a loaded train with one motorcoach isolated or not functioning
(due to blown panto fuse, MCB tripped, etc. etc.) Smoke and
sparks are common symptoms but they rarely erupt in flames.

The incident took place between Borivali and Kandivali in down
direction. The ladies special had just started after receiving
signal when one RPC started smoking with sparks. Panicked ladies
jumped on tracks in the path of UP local train that had cleared
all the points and was accelerating. M/man had no time for
corrective action.

It was one of the worst tragedy on WR.

Prakash


Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email on 05/07/99 01:15:39 AM

To: Sunil Bajpai <sunil@lw1.email
cc: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS
Subject: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU





> Some months later there was a very sad tragedy. On a day with
particularly
> bad weather power tripped for a few minutes in the city while a train
came
> to halt midway between stations. (The two were unrelated events.) For
some
> reason that remained a mystery, panic spread among the women in the
ladies
> coach that the coach had caught fire!! Many of them jumped on to the
> adjoining track and were run over by a passing train. It was the most
> bizarre of all accidents that I have come across. The motorman of the
train
> that ran over the women was a nervous wreck for some time afterwards.

I remember this accident well. It was anguish for many of us. No one we
knew
personally was involved in the accident but this sort of incident brings
the IR
in a bad light, although they were not in fault in any way. It also
reflects how
fragile the Mumbaikar's psyche is. The continuos living on the edge
makes panic
set very quickly in a big bad city.
One query - what sustains a fire in an EMU ? Apart from some illegal
combustible
substance that a passenger may be carrying, what can catch fire in an
EMU ? Even
if the whole electric apparatus goes for a toss, can the fire be
sustained ? The
oil in the compressor etc may burn (only in the power car), I have also
heard
that the resistors are insulated with cotton (!) and the thermal lining
between
the coach and roof is also some such material.
Unofficial motorman Prakash should also give us his views.

Apurva

From: Auroprem Kandaswami <>

Subject: Re: 24Coaches and some SR news

Date: 07 May 1999 17:47:19 -0500




What does GOC refer to?

Gudur or Gooty or Golden Rock or something totally different?

Please excuse my ignorance.

Auro


>From: "Krishnan Anand" <krish_nand@hotmail.email
>To: hvc@vsnl.email
>CC: irfca@cs.email iti@vsnl.email
>Subject: Re: 24Coaches and some SR news
>Date: Fri, 07 May 1999 07:02:56 PDT
>
>Hi all,
>
>>I don't think WAM4 is that capable. It must be a Jhansi WAP3/4
>between
>>Delhi-Itarsi. Will try to find out and let you know.
> As a regular traveller on the Chennai-Hyderabad route
sometimes, due to non-availability of WAP1/4s, i have seen WAM4s(BZA
shed) hauling the 2759/60 Charminar Exp which has a 21/22 rake
formation. Will 2/3 additional carriages force the need for extra power.
But the T.N and GT Expresses are very regularly hauled by WAP4s from
Jhansi shed.
>BTW i need inputs on something very surprising that i saw very
recently(last weekend) in Chennai. May be the southerners can help.
There has been a drastic re-location of A/C locos to the ERODE shed. I
could not beleive my eyes when i saw 7 out of the 12 A/C locos at
Chennai yard painted with ERODE markings, 3 were from Arakonam(2 WAM4s
and a WAP1) and 1 each from Lallaguda(WAP4) and Jhansi(WAP4). What would
be the plight of the deisel shed there at ERODE or is it going to be
shifted to GOC. Additionally i spotted atleast 3 WDM2s in GOC(2) and
ERODE(1) livery at the Tondiarpet Diesel Loco Shed. I guess this would
be due to the BG converted southern chord line to Trichy via Villupuram.
>Anyone to clarify on this
>
>
>regds,
>Anand
>
>
>
>
>
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From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: Oddities

Date: 07 May 1999 19:18:12 -0500


Hi everyone, especially Shankar and Harsh,
I think we do need to distinguish between genuine oddities and
things
that are simply survivals of older practices, or common elsewhere in the
world.
Wooden brake blocks, for example, were common on all railways in
the
early days. The round hatch on the end of the O&R van at the NRM in
Delhi
seems, from drawings in my possession, to have been a common fitting on
Indian State Railways vans in the 1880s. I suspect it was for the
purpose of
sampling grains, etc. It was probably suppressed due to the ease of
pilfering!
Rack lines are common in mountain areas. What makes the Nilgiri
line
so special is that it is unique in India and has such superb scenery.
Fireless locos are also common; they are still used where sparks (even
from
diesels) might cause fires: industrial plants using solvents, and oil
refineries, are typical.
Steam rail motors using an integrated engine enjoyed a brief
popularity in Britain around 1905, and dozens were built. To my
knowledge
four Indian railways (EIR, NWR, GIP, M&SM) built broad-gauge ones, while
Gwalior had a magnificant two-foot gauge example. Home-made diesel or
petrol
railcars were very common on the various component railways of the
Saurashtra system (Morvi, Junagarh, etc) from the late 1920s through to
the
late 1940s; in addition some Bengal narrow-gauge lines had various ones.
The
Drewry company (Motor Rail) supplied a trickle of such cars to various
Indian lines during the 1920s-1940s; the KSR motors are only the
best-known.
The MAWD (metre gauge) 2-8-2s from USA and Canada were supplied
to
numerous MG and 3ft 6in gauge systems during WWII, and the majority were
shipped with the headlamp in the middle of the smokebox door, the
configuration Harsh likes. Some went to Queensland, many to Burma and
Thailand, and quite a few other locations. The SG/BG "Middle East" and
S160
designs (IR AWD/CWD and AWC) were even more widely distributed. The MG
engines in Thailand, incidentally, were called "Macarthurs".
Multi-level vans for animals are not at all uncommon. Australia
has
double-deck sheep trucks, and so did the Great North of SAcotland
Railway.
However, I dicovered a real oddity in the (Indian) SR diagram books a
couple
of years ago: a six-level MG DUCK van, peppered with breathing holes,
though
it was otherwise a standard MG van!
Multi-deck car carriers are also quite common. In the USA, a
very
large proportion of the new car traffic has been captured since the
introduction of three-deck 85ft transporters which are entirely
protected by
mesh, thus poreventing damge in transit from vandalism or stray stones,
etc.
On the other hand, I was delighted to get tea in a clay cup on
a
recent trip from Ahmedabad to Delhi; a joy I'd missed in recent years.
Let's keep the oddities coming, and maybe sort them a bit
as we
go?
Cheers
Ken Walker




-----Original Message-----
From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Thursday, 6 May 1999 4:36
Subject: Oddities


>Hello Apurva,Dr.Walker and other friends,
>To answer Apurva's question, yes, there do exist electric engines in
>Europe (notable France) which can run on four different voltages:1500V
>dc, 3000V dc, 15,000V ac and 25.000V ac.These used to power the Trans
>Europe Expresses (TEE) and were conceived to run through different
>countries using different voltages. These engines were called
>"quadricurrent" locomotives.As such, the ac/dc WCAMs are not oddities
>per se, but are unusual on the IR.
>Same goes for the rack and pinion Nilgiri trains, fireless
>locomotive,and the double decker cars. The first dd car was introduced
>on the erstwhile East Indian Railway in 1862. Wooden bodied and
>4-wheeler, a model is preserved at the NRM in Delhi.
>To Dr. K.J.Walker, yes indeed, I thought a series on oddities would be
>fun.
>But surprisingly, the response has only been very lukewarm.
>
>Here are a few more oddities I could think of:
>
>A.Two are in the NRM itself: One, the double decker wooden bodied sheep
>van with overhead water tank and accommodation for one attendant, and
>two, the box car from the erstwhile Oudh and Rohilkhund Railway, with
>unusual circular doors (locked from the INSIDE!).
>Also the railmotor (passenger car with built-in steam locomotive) which
>once worked on the East Indian Railway. The engine portion was later
>removed and is now in the NRM as 'Phoenix'.
>
>B:The Tata lorries fitted with train wheels and used as self propelled
>sundry items carriers on the Madras-Arakonam line (during
>electrification) and later on teh Konkan Railway. I think Apurva has
>posted a pic of one such contraption in his website.
>
>C: SOme ng cars on the WR, notably in the Dabhoi area have special dog
>boxes with doggie-level lookout windows, usually closed with
exquisitely
>shaped grillework.A pic of one of these lookouts is featured in the
book
>'India-No Problem Sahib".
>
>D. SOme of the wartime MAWD engines on the SR had their headlight
>fitted to the middle of the smokebox door, (somewhat like the WP, but
>without
>the streamlining. This greatly enhanced their typical Yankee
appearance.
>
>E: The crude hand-built ng diesel railcars on the Bangarapet-Yelahanka
>line near Bangalore. (now defunct after the line was regauged to bg. I
>don't think you will see such crude workmanship anywhere else in the
>world!
>
>f: The hand pulled fire trolleys placed on the platforms of several
>stations on the GIP Rly (now CR): notable Lonavle, Khandala,
>Yadgir.There had to be pulled manually on the platform by two men.A
>rudimentary hand-pump was provided to pump water.Withdrawn as recently
>as 1992, two are now in the NRM in delhi.
>
>Other non-rolling stock oddities on the IR are:
>
>1. Serving chai in earthern cups all over the ER and lunch on banana
>leaves on the SCR and SR.
>2.Solar semaphore signal on the SR.
>3. Sandhurst Road station on the Bombay (oops:Mumbai) suburban section
>is the only one in the country to be situated on two levels:regular,
and
>upper level.I think the upper level station must be the only station in
>India to be built completely on top of a bridge.
>4. The approach to the upper level station is by a steep incline (all
>harbor line trains take this). This is supposed to be the steepest
>UN-AIDED climb for bg on the entire IR network.
>5.THe drive through platforms of Madras Egmore station, where one could
>(and still can, for a fee) drive right upto the train car.Such a
>facility also existed on a very limited scale at Howrah station, though
>I do not know if it is still used.
>6.The wooden foot overbridge at Madras Egmore must also be one of a
>kind.
>7.Shunting by elephant in certain areas, I think on the NF or ER.
>8. The longest station platform in India is Kharagpur at 2733 ft.This
>may not be an odditty in itself as worldwide, I think one can see even
>longer platforms.
>But try this. The longest station name on the IR network (certainly an
>oddity) is VENKATANARASIMHARAJUVARIPETA: The station immediately after
>Renigunta (whenproceeding towards Bombay) on the Madras-Bombay
>line.However, its only a flag station, and is not listed.
>THe shortest name must be IB, on the SER.
>Will post if I can think of anything else.
>Cheers.(with due apologies to Dr.Walker!)
>Shankar
>

From: Krishnan Anand <>

Subject: Re: some SR news

Date: 07 May 1999 20:57:51 -0500


Hi all,


<What is this shed at Tondiarpet ? Do locos home to <this shed (what
<is the station code ?) or is this just a trip shed ? From the time
<table
this seems
<like the diesel shed nearest to Chennai Central.
Tondiarpet is perhaps one of the oldest of the dedicated
diesel
shunter sheds on IR. It houses WDS4s and WDS6s. These shunters are
mainly
involved in shunting activities at the CONCOR yard at Thiruvottiyur,
Goods
yard at Tondiarpet and also at the Basin Bridge Train Care Centre to
move
rakes from-to Chennai Central. NOw that there are around 4-6 trains on
BG
from Chennai Egmore (also pronounced as Ezhumbur in Tamil, which was
yesterday's query) i guess these WDM2 Locos as u have all been pointing
out
have been berthed here temporarily. All of u can recollect that in one
previous mail that i sent sometime back, i had written of spotting a
huge
coal-wagon formation headed by a GOC WDM2 waiting at Ennore station. I
guess
WDM2s are back in Chennai and it is great news for Alco freaks like me.


<However in my last <trip to Chennai I
<was surprised to see hardly any diesels on the Renigunta - Arkonam -
<Chennai Central
<line.
Diesels have almost completely been phased out in that section.
I
heard from someone that the line from Renigunta to Cudappah is energised
and
will be opened for traffic soon (or possibly started operations). So we
might not actually not see any Deisel power in that section. But there
is
still a possiblilty as the Tirupathi-Pakala-Katpadi line is being guage
converted and if that line is not enegised, which would be illogical as
that
would be the only line not electrified in that region, then we could
still
have these locos stationed in TPT-Renigunta.

<My colleague has just returned from Ernakulum to Pune on the 1082 Up
<Jayanti Janata
<Express, has told me that the '82 Up comes to Ernakulum north and not
<Ernakulum Jn.
<Any one with a better insight / explanation ?
Yes there are actually 3 stations when we proceed towards EKM from PGT.
First is Ernakulam town(also called North) then Ernakulam Jn (South) and

then Cochin Harbour Terminus. There is a line that branches off to
TVM-Cape
after Ernakulam town(North) itself before even reaching Ernakulam Jn.
All
Locos of TVM-Cape bound trains that touch Ernakulam Jn have to change
ends.
This involves some time. So usually some trains like 1082 Up branch off
after Ernakulam town(North). This explains why some trains dont touch
Ernakulam Junction.

regds,
Anand



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From: VIRAF P.. MULLA <>

Subject: Re: SNAKES.

Date: 08 May 1999 01:32:20 -0500



> Indeed.I also read somewhre about how a live python being carried in a
> passenger coach caused panic as it escaped from its basket. How far it
> is true I do not know, but that certainly counts among oddities.Might
> have been a freak case, though.

Hello,

I distinctly remember some 20 years back the Railway Police discovering
a
gunny bag full of snakes in a Churchgate bound local from Virar. Some
passengers had noticed the movements in the bag and the police were
alerted. This was reported in The Times Of India.

But let me share with you what happened to me when I boarded a crowded
Virar bound fast train from Andheri. The train was jampacked and during
the evening rush hours you hardly notice your fellow passengers. After
sometime I sensed some movement just over my left shoulder.
Absentmindedly
I just brushed whatever it was with a casual flick of my right hand and
settled down for the rest of the journey.

The train is going at quite a speed and all the passengers including me
are lolling like pendulums with thwe movement to the train. After a few
seconds of the brushing aside incident I sensed that the people around
me
have focused their sights on me or rather just somewhere behind me.
Frankly at certain moments I tend to be goofy. Nothing registered at
that
moment but then again I felt some slithery movement near my nape. So I
just casually turned my head to brush aside the nuisance. Horror upon
horrors! what I saw turned my blood into ice. The nuicance was a python
wrapped around the neck of a sadhu . Instant fear made shout a profany
and
the sentence which is unprintable but you can imagine what I spoke. The
next moment all the others around burst into laughter. This incident is

etched in my memory.

Regards
Viraf

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Pune to Nepal

Date: 08 May 1999 02:38:18 -0500


Gang !

Some security personnel from our neighborhood have returned to
their home in Nepal. I overhead them saying that they are
going to Mathura, presumably by Jhelum Express. Why Mathura ?
And how does one go to Nepal from there onwards ? Being of one
track mind I can only think of the Katihar Raxaul route but
people travel on buses too !

Apurva

From: Joydeep Dutta <>

Subject: Re: 24 COACH TRAINS.

Date: 08 May 1999 04:24:42 -0500


I have travelled by Tamil nadu Express with 23 coaches in 1994 hauled by
a
WAM4 and it hauled it without a whimper at a booked speed of 95km/h.
Arrival
at NDLS was on time. Now the usual loco on TN Express is JHS WAP4.
Joydeep

>From: "Harsh Vardhan" <champa@del3.email
>Reply-To: "Harsh Vardhan" <hvc@vsnl.email
>To: "Apurva Bahadur" <iti@vsnl.email
>CC: <irfca@cs.email
>Subject: 24 COACH TRAINS.
>Date: Fri, 7 May 1999 17:47:18 +0530
>
>
>
> >>
> >> I felt that the twin WDM2 powered 24 coach Karnata Express also
made a
> >> beautiful sight on a bend/over a bridge.
>
>
> >Does that mean that the KK runs from NDLS to Manmad also on diesel
power
>?
>If
> >can you guess where the twin Itarsi powers are attached to this
train if
>this
> >train is electrically hauled from NDLS. .
> >
>
>I have not travelled in this train personally for a long time but saw
it
>from my Nizammudin-Goa Exp. when it was being hauled by the light blue
>Guntakal locos. My train stopped at some station between
>Belapur-Daund(possibly Rahuri) and I thought it would pass the
Karnataka
>Exp. But the K Exp. also arrived and waited on the third line. For some
>unknown reason they had decided to hold two superfasts for letting the
>nondescript Gyanganga Exp. go past us which was running many hours
late. It
>is almost certain that K Exp. changes powers at Itarsi (and not Manmad)
>where a 15 min stop has been provided.
>
>
>Also can a single WAM 4 handle a 24
> >coach load ? What is the weight of this rake - 24 coaches = 1200 T ?
> >Maybe Sridhar (who has travelled on this train from SBC to MMR) can
tell
>us
>with
> >the WDM 2s were indeed changed at MMR
>
>I don't think WAM4 is that capable. It must be a Jhansi WAP3/4 between
>Delhi-Itarsi. Will try to find out and let you know.
>
>Harsh
>
>


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From: S Pai <>

Subject: Re: WAP locos.

Date: 08 May 1999 15:24:53 -0500



> From: Vijay Balasubramanian <VBalasubramanian@Softrax.email
>
> WAP1 - 3900 hp, largest of all WAP fleets, used all over IR, 130 kmph.
> max speed, Mark III bogies?

I don't know the significance of the different models or brand names of
these Flexicoil bogies, but I believe these are either Mark II or Mark
III.
Perhaps someone who knows about this can comment on the technical
aspects
of different bogies that IR keeps playing with?

The WAP1 is essentially the same as the WAM4R. Max. speed sounds right
as
you have mentioned.

(Incidentally, there were also some WAM4P for passenger operations --
what
became of them, were they reclassified as something else?)

The WAP1A is the same as the WAP1 but with different (Hitachi?) motors.

> WAP2 - ?? hp, regeared version of WAM2/3, how many in operation?, what
> section of Hwh-MGS? max. speed?

Not sure about these -- are you sure they were regeared and not just
reclassified? WAM2/WAM3 locos, for what it's worth, can run at about
115km/h
and have Mitsubishi motors.

> WAP3 - 3900 hp, 140 kmph., what other differences from WAP1 besides
> speed?, used only on Bhopal and LKO Shatabdis?

I believe the WAP3 is identical to the WAP1 in all respects except that
the bogies are slightly different. (Again, I don't know the technical
significance, but it's Flexicoil Mark IV as opposed to some other
model.)

> WAP4 - 5000 hp, 140 kmph., Mark IV bogies? where are these being used?

The WAP4 is a reclassified version of some WAG model, I believe.
Possibly
a WAG6C or WAG7. These also have Hitachi motors.

> WAP5 - 6000 hp, 160 kmph., ABB imports, used only on Mumbai/Hwh.(via
> Gaya)/B'neswar Rajs., Prayagraj, Gomti, any other trains?

Most WAP models are Co-Co (except perhaps WAP2). These being ABB
imports,
are a completely different design (Bo-Bo), and they use GTO thyristor
converters and 3-phase motors. They are said to be capable of doing
200km/h
if geared appropriately, although I have only heard of tests being
carried
out to 160km/h in India.

I think there are only a dozen or so of these -- CLW was supposed to
start
producing them, but maybe they have decided to go ahead with the WAP6
instead.

> WAP6 - 5000 hp, 160 mkph., Mark IV bogies, where are these being used?

What is the ancestry of the WAP6? Is it essentially an updated WAP4?
My
suspicion is that WAP6 is an update of something like WAP4 (which itself
is an update of WAG7 or something), so that it is something that CLW is
very comfortable with, and that might be the reason they chose to
produce
this model instead of WAP5 which would have been completely different
technology. Please feel free to shoot down this idle conjecture. :-)

Otherwise WAP5 and WAP6 are not that different in terms of speed, etc.
WAP6 has a slightly higher tractive effort rating (probably because it
is much heavier than the WAP5 (113 tonnes vs. 79 tonnes) -- another
conjecture here, that WAP5 has better slip control than the WAP6).

> I am curious about the necessity of having WAP6s since current speeds
on
> IR do not exceed 140 kmph. - WAP4s can do the job equally well.

Wasn't there a plan to allow 160km/h traffic on KR?

> Are WAP5 three-phase AC locos.?

Yes. What about the WAP6?

> I believe this has been discussed before but how are 3-phase AC
> locos. better than conventional AC locos.?

If I recall correctly, 3-phase motors operate more efficiently, and
can start more easily (high starting torque without drawing excessive
current). Also, depending on the design, I think 3-phase motors can
have somewhat fewer moving parts, making maintenance easier and leading
to a longer life. The electronics get more complex, though, because
you need a converter to generate 3-phase power in the loco. In the
WAP5 a "gate-turnoff" (GTO) thyristor system is used; the newer
technique
is to use something called insulated-gate bipolar transistors (IGBT)
for the converter.

> Do the former use AC traction motors?

Yes, 3-phase asynchronous AC motors. I am not entirely sure whether
the non-3-phase locos use asynchronous AC motors or some combination of
synchronous AC motors with controlling circuitry to vary the frequency
of the current supplied to it. (Someone who knows this better should
explain it...)

--Satish

From: John Lacey <>

Subject: Re: travel writing

Date: 08 May 1999 18:32:30 -0500


-Harsh Vardhan wrote:
>
> -
> > The article, called Journey on a Perfect little Train
> >describes a November 1977 journey from Delhi to Palumpur including a
> >steam cab ride on the Kangra Valley line.
>
> How very strange. Are you sure it was '77 and did steam survive on
KVR till
> then ?
>
> Harsh

Most of the travel pieces in Gavin Young's book were written for the
Observer, and each has a date, presumably that of original publication.
This one is given as 23 November 1977, and underneath the title is the
descriptive line,
" When I had the opportunity to take a trip by steam engine into the
Himalayan foothills, I boarded at the first opportunity".
Of course,the journey described could have taken place some time before
1977, and only a small section of the article is set on the footplate.
I spent a few hours in Pathankot in late 1980 on my first visit to India
and there was at least one ZE busily shunting. Unfortunately, I did not
pay much attention to it as I was captivated by my first sight of HPS
locos-and then distracted by the necessity to change money.

John

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Two more tracks between Borivali and Virar

Date: 09 May 1999 10:51:10 -0500


>From a WR ad in the TOI of 9th May '99

'Two more tracks between Virar and Borivali - from a distant dream to
absolute
reality'

'Shri. Ram Naik will inaugurate the commencement of work of quadrupling
of the Railway
line between Virar and Borivali, date Sunday 6th May 1999, Time 1730
Hrs, Venue Virar
railway station.'

The salient features:
Cost of work: Rs. 401.66 crores
Total route length: 25.84 Kms
Type of traction: 25 Kv AC
Total Bridges: 16
Important bridges: 2 nos (Br. no 73 and 75 over the Vasai Creek)

Note that the traction mentioned is 25 Kv AC. How will this be
implemented? If two 25
Kv tracks came to Borivali how will the changeover of traction system be
carried out ?
In my opinion the changing of 25 Kv traction system in Mumbai area is
the most
difficult engineering problem to face the IR for the last 20 years or
so. Making of
the KR was an easy task in comparison.

Apurva

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Ladies special EMU

Date: 09 May 1999 11:10:19 -0500


Harsh Vardhan wrote:
>
> >So this is a slow train from Churchgate to Virar. I wonder if the
driver,
> guard and
> >the ticket checking staff are women too. Mumbai gang confirm.
>
> I think these are women indeed. At least when inaugurated, this train
made
> lot of pomp about all women staff. And a lady motorperson I met
regularly
> womans this train. What I would like to know however is, if
Hijiras(Eunuchs)
> and child(boys) vendors are allowed to board these trains as they are
> allowed in the ladies coaches of the other trains?
> Have they never been viewed(proved) as a security hazard?
>
> Harsh

As far as I know, we're allowed to travel in ladies compartments in all
trains.

What puzzles me is that you mention child vendors - vendors of all sexes
and ages come to the ladies compartments of the Calcutta EMU, adult men
included.

And frankly, Harsh, I'm disappointed that you would be concerned that
my riding the ladies special would be a security hazard.

Annie

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 09 May 1999 11:18:19 -0500


Harsh Vardhan wrote:
>
> >So, is India so fecund all over that there are no places to where
fruit
> needs
> >to be brought in? I don't recall, for example, seeing many orange
groves
> around
> >Kerala.
>
> Instead of keeping them refridgerated, they keep them insulated.
Banana
> trains are regularly lined with its huge leaves which are also placed
on the
> top of the wagons. Mangoe and grapes are packed before they are fully
ripe.
> Apples in crates.
>
> You may be surprised to know that most of eggs consumed up North
comes from
> as far as Pune and Secunderabad are never brought refrigerated
although
> these travel mostly in lorries and not by railway. Never heard of a
chick
> popping out of them on the dinner table. Talking of chicks, even these
are
> booked very regularly as parcels on IR and the death rate in transit
is a
> miniscule 2-4%.
>
> A


I'm currently building a model of a (US) car used between 1900 - 1930 to
haul
live chickens to market. A gaurd accompanied the car to feed the
chickens.

<A HREF="http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/chickens/chicken.htm">http://www.idiom.com/~anniepoo/chickens/chicken.htm</A>

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 09 May 1999 11:21:02 -0500


> 3.Is the modern double decker Maruti car carrier an oddity, or do the
> likes of them exist overseas? (esp. in the US).
>

Yes, there are large numbers of such cars in the US.
We have a car plant nearby, so I see many, many of them.

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: WAP locos.

Date: 09 May 1999 11:34:17 -0500



>WAP1 - 3900 hp, largest of all WAP fleets, used all over IR, 130 kmph.
>max speed, Mark III bogies?


max speed 130 kmph, Co-Co flexicoil III bogies. Those with Hitachi
Motors
are called WAP1A.

>WAP2 - ?? hp, regeared version of WAM2/3, how many in operation?, what
>section of Hwh-MGS? max. speed?

max speed 112 kmph. There were some at Kanpur also two years back.
Certainly
a few of them are still based at MGS??

>WAP3 - 3900 hp, 140 kmph., what other differences from WAP1 besides
>speed?, used only on Bhopal and LKO Shatabdis?


WAP1 production types with flexicoil II and IV high adhesion bogies
allowing
higher speeds.

>WAP4 - 5000 hp, 140 kmph., Mark IV bogies? where are these being used?


Passenger version of WAG7. Most of these are based at Jhansi for
North-South(??!1?) Superfast runs. A few at Baroda, Ghaziabad, Kanpur.

>WAP5 - 6000 hp, 160 kmph., ABB imports, used only on Mumbai/Hwh.(via
>Gaya)/B'neswar Rajs., Prayagraj, Gomti, any other trains?

Bhopal Shatabdi. All locos based at Ghaziabad.

>Iam curious about the necessity of having WAP6s since current speeds on
>IR do not exceed 140 kmph. - WAP4s can do the job equally well.

WAP 6s are WAP 4s only in essense only with mark IV bogies to allow
higher
speeds. This was CLWs experiment with building a high speed locos. A
loco
with a maximum speed of 140 does not consistently work at that top
speed.

> Are
>WAP5 three-phase AC locos.? I believe this has been discussed before
>but how are 3-phase AC locos. better than conventional AC locos.? Do
>the former use AC traction motors?
>


Yes WAP 5 and WAG 9 are 3 phase locos. 3 phase asynchronous squirrel
cage
motors are compact, lighter and require less maintenance. Their tractive
effort at start and for continuous run is also higher for the same Hp.
Earlier locos used DC motors with silicon rectifiers.
3 phase locos have thyristor converters.

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU

Date: 09 May 1999 11:40:15 -0500


Both Prakash and Apurva mentioned that the accident occured in a Ladies
Special.
Whereas I thought(and so did Sunil say) that it was a Ladies Coach of a
Normal Train.
Clarifications please ???

Harsh

From: prakash <>

Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU

Date: 09 May 1999 12:55:51 -0500





Hi Harsh,

It was Ladies Special where all 9 coaches were meant for ladies.
Except 1950 stock Metro Cammell, ladies 3rd class (later 2nd class)
coach was not a motorcoach. Ladies coach traditionally is the first
coach in UP direction (actually going south instead of north).

In this case, the trailing m/coach, the last one or 8th coach from
M/man in DN direction generated sparks and smoke.

Even under normal conditions, trailing m/coach always runs hotter
than leading m/coach. (push v/s pull). This phenomena could easily
be sensed in Metro Cammell where driving cab was located in front
of RPC.

Two major factors result in over heating. One was mentioned earlier,
an isolated m/coach, two, a pair of motors cut in working m/coach;
this could be because of damaged motor, commutator, brushes, etc.
In such case motors do not run in series through normal cycle, unless
master controller is oscillated between series and shunt positions
in quick succession; instead they jump in series-parallel mode
prematurely, over heating resistors.

Hope this helps.

Prakash



"Harsh Vardhan" <champa@del3.email on 05/09/99 11:40:15 AM

Please respond to "Harsh Vardhan" <hvc@vsnl.email

To: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS, "Apurva Bahadur"
<iti@vsnl.email
cc: irfca@cs.email
Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU





Both Prakash and Apurva mentioned that the accident occured in a Ladies
Special.
Whereas I thought(and so did Sunil say) that it was a Ladies Coach of a
Normal Train.
Clarifications please ???

Harsh

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: Specials freights and oddities on IR.

Date: 09 May 1999 20:28:50 -0500


Shankar wrote:
> 1.When the great steel plants were under construction, the IR
> constructed a massive 16 wheeler well wagon to convey a massive
furnace
> or somthing. This impressive car also had a brakesman's cabin at
either
> end.I do not know if this car is still in service, but its certainly
an
> oddity, possibly never to be repeated again.
There was a picture of one such wagon at the NRM
some time back (I believe the type is referred to
as "Schnabel Car"). I saw one parked at Vadodara
in the mid-80's: a really impressive sight. The
cabin actually controls the position of an
out-of-loading-gauge load, which can move sideways
to clear trackside structures. There are a couple
of web pages around describing such cars in the US.
> 2. COnveying concrete sleepers in ....
Talking of concrete sleepers.....I remember passing
by Ankai (near Manmad), when the MG line from Manmad
to (?) was under gauge conversion. As a transitional
arrangement, the track was mixed gauge, built
with special concrete sleepers that could take
a third rail.
> 3.Is the modern double decker Maruti car carrier an oddity, or do the
> likes of them exist overseas? (esp. in the US).
The US routinely uses triple-level auto racks.
>Incidentally, does anyone have any info on India;s last private line in
>public service: the Martin;s light Railway, which ceased operation as
>recently as 1972? It was in Eastern India too.
I don't know if this is the same line, but there was a
NG line somewhere around central Bihar (around
Sahibgunj ?) which I used to notice when travelling
by the Tinsukia Mail (ugh) until around 1982. It
seemed to be a private line, going by the heavy
advertising on the rolling stock.

--
JS
--

From: Sunil Bajpai <>

Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU

Date: 09 May 1999 21:07:58 -0500


I'd be surprised if the train that was involved in the accident was the
Ladies Special.

Prakash, are you inferring from the location of the motorcoach and the
ladies compartment in normal 9-car rakes that the EMU in question was
the
Ladies Special?

While some possible explanations have been mentioned in postings on
IRFCA
for the reported smoke, I'd like to mention that the rake in question
was
taken off service and examined very thoroughly and that the Commissioner
of
Railway safety investigated the accident too. As far as I can recall, no
electrical fault or isolation of a motorcoach, etc. was found.

The rake was in fact fresh out of maintenance. That had prompted a
thought
in mind that cotton waste or a small quantity of oil from the dashpots
may
have come on to the wheels and could have smoked at the time of braking.
Such oil would then burn off without a trace!! All this, however, is
speculation!

Best Wishes

Sunil

-----Original Message-----
From: prakash@us.email <prakash@us.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <hvc@vsnl.email
Cc: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: 10 May 1999 02:02
Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU


>
>
>
>Hi Harsh,
>
>It was Ladies Special where all 9 coaches were meant for ladies.
>Except 1950 stock Metro Cammell, ladies 3rd class (later 2nd class)
>coach was not a motorcoach. Ladies coach traditionally is the first
>coach in UP direction (actually going south instead of north).
>
>In this case, the trailing m/coach, the last one or 8th coach from
>M/man in DN direction generated sparks and smoke.
>
>Even under normal conditions, trailing m/coach always runs hotter
>than leading m/coach. (push v/s pull). This phenomena could easily
>be sensed in Metro Cammell where driving cab was located in front
>of RPC.
>
>Two major factors result in over heating. One was mentioned earlier,
>an isolated m/coach, two, a pair of motors cut in working m/coach;
>this could be because of damaged motor, commutator, brushes, etc.
>In such case motors do not run in series through normal cycle, unless
>master controller is oscillated between series and shunt positions
>in quick succession; instead they jump in series-parallel mode
>prematurely, over heating resistors.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>Prakash
>
>
>
>"Harsh Vardhan" <champa@del3.email on 05/09/99 11:40:15 AM
>
>Please respond to "Harsh Vardhan" <hvc@vsnl.email
>
>To: Prakash Tendulkar/Santa Teresa/IBM@IBMUS, "Apurva Bahadur"
<iti@vsnl.email
>cc: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Fire in the EMU was Ladies special EMU
>
>
>
>
>
>Both Prakash and Apurva mentioned that the accident occured in a Ladies
>Special.
>Whereas I thought(and so did Sunil say) that it was a Ladies Coach of a
>Normal Train.
>Clarifications please ???
>
>Harsh
>
>
>
>
>
>

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