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From: John Lacey <>

Subject: a puzzling loco

Date: 01 May 1999 02:24:44 -0500

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Iranian railways

Date: 01 May 1999 04:19:10 -0500


Check out the Iranian Railway webpage
<A HREF="http://www.msedv.com/rai/index_e.html">http://www.msedv.com/rai/index_e.html</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: No info?

Date: 01 May 1999 06:21:42 -0500




>

> And there are of course the movie scenes where someone
> travels some distance by hanging on to the bottom of a rail car; I
> always thought this was really implausible.

And a mighty uncomfortable to travel. My guess is that hobos used to
travel in a
cavity under the frame of a freight car. But I read somewhere that there
are no
handles deliberately on the modern freight car so as to discourage any
casual riding.
Now that our own dear Harsh has had such a near death experience, I am
not curious any
more. But I must confess I have done jumping a freight rake, that too in
the night,
although in a freight yard on a MG rake which the people around assured
us had no loco
at the either end. The MG rake being short allows climbing over the
coupler. Will
definitely never do again.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: ALCO music

Date: 01 May 1999 06:27:00 -0500


Check out the WAV file of the Alco A9104 on Phil's page. It sounds very
much like the
YDM 4. Although the rapid acceleration of these engines is very non
Indian. Our trains
accelerate very sedately while hauling a much heavier load I guess.

Apurva

From: S Pai <>

Subject: a puzzling loco

Date: 01 May 1999 07:32:17 -0500



John,

Thanks for pointing out the answer to the puzzle of loco No. 4000!

In case anyone else had problems decoding the message John sent: GIPR
No. 4000 was the prototype for the EA/1 series and later renumbered to
No. 4003 when the rest of the series arrived.

So the photograph must have been taken during one of the prototype
evaluation runs of the Deccan Queen with an EA/1, and so probably
dates to 1928 or so. Ah, a fast, vestibuled, electrically-hauled 1st-
& 2nd-class-only train in 1928, perhaps with air-conditioned coaches
-- it must have been great fun to ride this train, for those who could
afford to ride it then.

--Satish

From: GOODWIN ALCO <>

Subject: Re: Over 20 pics added.

Date: 01 May 1999 08:50:18 -0500


Well it has long been promised, but I have finally updated the
photoalbums on both my pages.
New photos recent/historical exist for

Overseas Alco
45 class
Austrac & Silverton
442 class
44 class
Rail Services Australia

While the Philippine site has new pictures of the 5000 and 900 classes
and a number of interesting Philippine links.

From: John Lacey <>

Subject: a puzzling loco

Date: 01 May 1999 16:06:47 -0500


S Pai wrote:
>
> An old book I recently acquired ("World's railways and how they work",
> Odhams Press, circa 1940?) has a description of headlight codes for
> British locos. Apparently the number and placement of lamps (top
> centre, lower left, lower right, etc.) used to indicate the kind of
> train (passenger express, slow train, perishable vs. non-perishable
> freight, etc.). I was wondering whether there were ever any such lamp
> indications for trains in India. (Are such indications used in the UK
> or anywhere else today?) It's an interesting concept -- I guess the
> motivation was to allow signalmen or others to recognize a distant
> train at night? Modern communication mechanisms probably make this
> completely unnecessary.
>
> This book has some good, if somewhat grainy, black-and-white
> photographs of a train on the figure-eight loop of the Darjeeling
> Himalayan Railway, a track repair train on a bridge somewhere in the
> Khyber Pass, a train on a four-tier arch bridge on the Kalka-Simla
> route, the "Vice-Regal Train" near Lahore, and the Deccan Queen
> (hauled by what looks like an EA/1 DC electric loco of the GIPR (see
> below for puzzle)). About the Deccan Queen, the book says it has an
> average speed of 44 mph (= 70 km/h). Not bad. What is the average
> speed today? "It carries first- and second-class passengers only, and
> is one of the very few corridor trains in the country", says the book,
> and continues with some remarks on how slowly India has taken to
> air-conditioning, and saying that air-conditioned coaches were
> a great improvement over the earlier system of carrying slabs of ice
> on the floors of first-class coaches.
>
> This is the puzzle: The serial number of the loco hauling the Deccan
> Queen in the photograph is 4000, and on the side it has the initials
> "G. I. P.". From comparisons with photographs in Jal Daboo's book,
> I'm pretty sure it is an EA/1 (later WCP1). Yet, Hugh Hughes' book
> ("Indian Locomotives", vol. 4) indicates that the EA/1 series
> numbering began at 4003 and went up to 4024. Number 4001 was the
> single EB/1 loco acquired by the GIPR, and number 4002 was the single
> EC/1 loco also of GIPR. These anyway do not look like the EA/1
> models. The only other model that would look like EA/1 is the EA/2,
> but that came several years after the EA/1 series and had a number
> 4025.
>
> So what's this mystery loco 4000 of GIPR that hauled the Deccan Queen
> some time in the '30s or '40s?? (Unfortunately the book does not have
> a publication date on it, but from maps and other indications it
appears
> to date to no later than 1945 or so.)
>
> --Satish

Apologies for my previous incomprehensible message-
My (also undated) copy of the Oldham's book is just post 1948 as a
double page photo spread is credited " by permission of British
Railways Executive" and there is also a photo of the LMS diesel built in
1947.

More interesting is another double page spread on pages14-15 which shows
a goods train on a Darjeeling spiral-the familiar location at I think
Chunabati ( I don't have my DHR material with me) - but this time the
loco is the Garratt. I don't recall seeing a photo published of this
loco hauling a train.

Hugh Hughes solves the Deccan Queen puzzle in Part One on pages 59&62.
GIPR 4000 (SLM 1928) " was chosen as the the prototype of the subsequent
bulk order", and was later renumbered 4003.

The most recent timetable I have (Cooks July-August1998) gives the times
as:
Mumbai 17.10 Karjat 1830 Lonavla 20.25 Pune ar 20.35 dep 07.15 Lonavla
08.10 Dadar 10.23 Mumbai 10.40.

This is slower than the oldest timetable I have, Central Rly of May
1952:
Bombay 17.10 Karjat 18.27 Lonavla 19.13 Poona ar 20.5 dep 0735 Lonavla
8.22 Khnadala 8.31 Bombay 10.30.
The 1952 timetable gives the distance as 119 miles which means an
overall average of 40.8. These trains conveyed first and second classes
and a dining car. A Poona Mail followed 10 minutes later in each
direction, taking an hour longer, with more stops, coneying
first,second,inter,third classes and buffet car.

John

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re: DMRC Website

Date: 02 May 1999 06:17:11 -0500


greetings

re delhi metro current collection

both the madrid, spain, and buenos aires, argentina, systems have
stretches
of overhead cable, underground ! of course they use tramway voltages of

about 750 v.

overhead was specified to make sure no track workers or stranded
passengers
blundered into a live rail. In BA there was also a problem with water
leakage
on some lines laid in reclaimed land near the docks.

richard yudin

From: Milind Thekedar <>

Subject: Fw: Pray

Date: 02 May 1999 06:37:34 -0500



-----Original Message-----
From: S G <list002@usa.email
To: list002@usa.email <list002@usa.email
Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 6:10 PM
Subject: Pray


>Dear Friend,
>
>JOIN US TO PRAY FOR
>
> THE VICTORY OF INDIA
>
> IN THE
>
> "CRICKET WORLD CUP 1999"
>
> AND WISH THEM GOOD LUCK.
>
>"not even the most productive cow can be milked forever without
>investment"
>
>DO INVEST JUST 2 MINUTES AND
>
>SEND A COPY OF THIS MESSAGE TO
>ALL THE INDIANS YOU KNOW WITH A COPY TO
>ME at indiawill@flashmail.email SO THAT WE CAN
>TELL OUR TEAM THE
>NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE PLAYING
>FOR THEM IN BACKGROUND WHILE THEY
>WERE PLAYING IN THE GROUND.
>
>**<< The Pen (E-mail) is mightier than the Sword >>**
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________________________
>Get free e-mail and a permanent address at
<A HREF="http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1">http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1</A>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re:Fw: Pray

Date: 02 May 1999 10:35:33 -0500


How does this mail relate to Indian Railways ? Let us keep to discussion
to the
subject we love most. There are other forums for discussing such matters
but not the
IRFCA.

Apurva

Milind Thekedar wrote:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S G <list002@usa.email
> To: list002@usa.email <list002@usa.email
> Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 6:10 PM
> Subject: Pray
>
> >Dear Friend,
> >
> >JOIN US TO PRAY FOR
> >
> > THE VICTORY OF INDIA
> >
> > IN THE
> >
> > "CRICKET WORLD CUP 1999"
> >
> > AND WISH THEM GOOD LUCK.
> >
> >"not even the most productive cow can be milked forever without
> >investment"
> >
> >DO INVEST JUST 2 MINUTES AND
> >
> >SEND A COPY OF THIS MESSAGE TO
> >ALL THE INDIANS YOU KNOW WITH A COPY TO
> >ME at indiawill@flashmail.email SO THAT WE CAN
> >TELL OUR TEAM THE
> >NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE PLAYING
> >FOR THEM IN BACKGROUND WHILE THEY
> >WERE PLAYING IN THE GROUND.
> >
> >**<< The Pen (E-mail) is mightier than the Sword >>**
> >
> >
> >
> >____________________________________________________________________
> >Get free e-mail and a permanent address at
<A HREF="http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1">http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1</A>
> >

From: HICJHH <>

Subject: Re:Fw: Pray

Date: 02 May 1999 13:14:00 -0500


Good Luck in the matches.

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re:Fw: Pray

Date: 02 May 1999 20:32:45 -0500


Hello,
I'll second that.
I think we have been into this issue in the past as well.
Let us keep this forum strictly pertaining to Indian Railways.
I do not think it is proper or appropriate for (mis)using this forum
for soliciting support for other irrelevant causes
I have been largely off the radar for a while now, but will catch up
shortly.
Have a nice day.
Shankar



Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> How does this mail relate to Indian Railways ? Let us keep to
discussion to the
> subject we love most. There are other forums for discussing such
matters but not the
> IRFCA.
>
> Apurva
>
> Milind Thekedar wrote:
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: S G <list002@usa.email
> > To: list002@usa.email <list002@usa.email
> > Date: Sunday, May 02, 1999 6:10 PM
> > Subject: Pray
> >
> > >Dear Friend,
> > >
> > >JOIN US TO PRAY FOR
> > >
> > > THE VICTORY OF INDIA
> > >
> > > IN THE
> > >
> > > "CRICKET WORLD CUP 1999"
> > >
> > > AND WISH THEM GOOD LUCK.
> > >
> > >"not even the most productive cow can be milked forever without
> > >investment"
> > >
> > >DO INVEST JUST 2 MINUTES AND
> > >
> > >SEND A COPY OF THIS MESSAGE TO
> > >ALL THE INDIANS YOU KNOW WITH A COPY TO
> > >ME at indiawill@flashmail.email SO THAT WE CAN
> > >TELL OUR TEAM THE
> > >NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO WERE PLAYING
> > >FOR THEM IN BACKGROUND WHILE THEY
> > >WERE PLAYING IN THE GROUND.
> > >
> > >**<< The Pen (E-mail) is mightier than the Sword >>**
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>____________________________________________________________________
> > >Get free e-mail and a permanent address at
<A HREF="http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1">http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1</A>
> > >

From: FyffesFL <>

Subject: Re:Fw: Pray

Date: 02 May 1999 20:34:02 -0500


greetings from the west indies

rails, fine, even urban railed transit

please let us keep cricket out of it - there must be at least four teams

followed among the subscribers, possibly one or two more ?

Richard Yudin

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Buffer Query

Date: 02 May 1999 21:09:18 -0500


Just wondering: has any BG stock in
India ever had unusual shapes given
to the side buffers, apart from the
usual circular shape ? Side buffers
in Europe were often elliptical,
sometimes even square. Anything like
these here ?

On a different note: why did some
locos on VR, Australia, have buffers
which looked like truncated circles ?
--
JS
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: DMRC Website was Calcutta Metro

Date: 02 May 1999 23:49:15 -0500




FyffesFL@aol.email wrote:

> greetings
>
> re delhi metro current collection
>
> both the madrid, spain, and buenos aires, argentina, systems have
stretches
> of overhead cable, underground ! of course they use tramway voltages
of
> about 750 v.
>
> overhead was specified to make sure no track workers or stranded
passengers
> blundered into a live rail. In BA there was also a problem with water
leakage
> on some lines laid in reclaimed land near the docks.

How does Calcutta manage with the 3rd rail ? I am yet to hear of a
single
electrocution death on the metro yet due to 3rd rail. Water seepage is
one of the
problem that Calcutta metro suffers from specially at the Dum Dum end.
For that
matter I have not heard of any derailments on the Cal metro either. The
worst
accident I have heard of is accidental opening of the door during the
run and a
minor fire on one of the cars. I also seem to remember a stranded rake
which was
in the news due to power failure. I recall that the Calcutta metro power
supply
is next in priority only to the defense requirements, which means that a
failure
is unlikely.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Double role was Shrirampur/Belapur

Date: 02 May 1999 23:58:01 -0500


Shankar wrote:

> Hello,
> Another interesting fact about the Belapur on the Daund Manmad line:
> On one side of the track is the town Belapur, on the other side is the
> town Shrirampur. Most of the locals use both Shrirampur as well as
> Belapur as the name, though the official IR name is Belapur.

If I remember correctly the original station was called
Shrirampur 15 - 20
years ago. Belapur is the renamed station but it remains out
of news as
there is no controversy about the renaming.
I remember having to change coaches from unreserved to a
sleeper at this
station on the Jhelum express.

Apurva

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Re:Fw: Pray

Date: 03 May 1999 01:14:43 -0500



Hi!

On Mon, 3 May 1999, Shankar wrote:

> Hello,
> I'll second that.
> I think we have been into this issue in the past as well.
> Let us keep this forum strictly pertaining to Indian Railways.
> I do not think it is proper or appropriate for (mis)using this forum
> for soliciting support for other irrelevant causes
> I have been largely off the radar for a while now, but will catch up
> shortly.
> Have a nice day.
> Shankar


Viraf will agree too!. Although I am a cricket freak, I won't use this
mailing list for that purpose. This should mean strictly Train Business.
Nothing else.

Bye,

Shrinivas

From: SHRINIVAS V. JOSHI <>

Subject: Prey?

Date: 03 May 1999 01:19:18 -0500



To, Milind,

Was it by mistake, you used irfca mail id while mailing that prayer?
Then
it's ok. If it was by intention , then you were at fault. IRFCA should
be
used for topics related to Trains only.

I hope you will understand feelings of fellow train freaks.

Shrinivas

From: Sunil Bajpai <>

Subject: Re: Reporting on accidents

Date: 03 May 1999 01:29:08 -0500


Dear Dr Parthasarathy,

Thanks for your message. I agree with you entirely that safety cannot be
left in the hands of any industry when it impacts lives of ordinary
citizens
not connected with it.

May I request you to please elaborate on the recommendation that you
made to
the IR. In what capacity was the report prepared?

Your suggestion about an independent force like TASK is very
interesting.
And this country needs many such bodies to get the citizens directly
involved in affairs that concern them.

But there are questions to answer. How will the activities of this group
be
funded? How will such a task force, which has no legal standing, be able
to
get at the evidence that may (will!) be denied on all sorts of
administrative grounds? What will be the credibility of this group
unless it
has people of unimpeachable integrity and competence? And such people
may
not accept volunteer work.

We need to make the idea workable by thinking through all the related
questions. IRFCA members may have just the enthusiasm, energy and
diversity
of experience to make a well-though out recommendation in this case. One
which would anticipate and answer the questions that my be asked so that
it
cannot be brushed aside easily.

Can the press play any constructive role in all this?

Regards,

Sunil

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. S. Parthasarathy <m05@anna.email
To: Members <irfca@cs.email partha <partha@ifra.email
Date: 30 April 1999 12:32
Subject: Reporting on accidents


>Hello fans of IR,
>
>The last two messages concerning non-reporting of railway accidents
need
>to be taken seriously. It is a well-known fact that in India, railway
>accidents are either not reported at all or reported as unobtrusivley
as
>possible. This was one of the major observations I had made in a report
>I had sent to the IR Committee for improving safety in IR.
>
>I quote a portion of the report:
>
>***QUOTE
>To be able to discuss an accident more freely, analyse its causes, and
>come up with suggestions to avoid recurrence of a similar accident, it
>is necessary to investigate rapidly and publish the findings without
any
>fear of legal backlash. A purely technical and independent
>investigation agency should be set up which enjoys immunity from being
>legally challenged. The findings of such an agency should be published
>and made accessible without any constraints. This agency or team should
>be allowed do its work concurrently with other legal or regulatory
>bodies, and publish its findings independently. We therefore suggest
two
>concurrent streams of investigation: purely technical, purely judicial.
>
>A successful case of such an approach is the TASK Group (TETSUDOU ANZEN
>SUISHIN KAIGI) of Japan. Victims of railroad accidents, Japanese Diet
>Members, journalists, scholars and lawyers who sympathised with the
>victims, formed TASK in August 1993. When a major railroad accident
>occurs, TASK members immediately go to the accident site and conduct
>independent investigation as a civil group. The results of these
>investigations are then made public. The TASK Group has a www homepage
>at: <A HREF="http://www.tasksafety.org/index.htm">http://www.tasksafety.org/index.htm</A> . Since a beginning has been
>made, this model seems to be feasible and can be adopted by other
>nations as well.
>***UNQUOTE
>
>What is surprising is that in this age of Internet and global access to
>information, all the efforts by IR (or the powers that be) to hide
these
>accidents become meaningless. In fact, you can read about accidents in
>IR through many foreign web sites. So what are we achieving ? Nothing.
>Just more complacence and more accidents in the bargain.
>
>Here is where a body like IRFCA can help. We can form a kind of
pressure
>group on the lines TASK and share whatever "inside" information we get
>about an accident. We can study not just the conditions which lead to
>the accident (to take precautionary steps) as well as the procedures
>which are taken after the accident (investigation, action taken,
>compensations etc.). After all, if we cannot prevent accidents, we
>should at least be more concerned about the way we treat the victims
>families.
>
>I know this subject is not a very pleasant or enjoyable topic like
>watching locos (no offense meant), but we should be able to do
>something.
>
>I look forward to suggestions from all of you.
>
>Let us remove the shameful image which IR have got because of its
>endless list of accidents.
>
>
>...partha
>
>
>BTW: What ever happened to the report I sent to this safety review
>committee ? I do not know. Does anyone among you know ?
>
>
>--
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: hello-help needed

Date: 03 May 1999 03:12:01 -0500


Hello Neil !

I take the liberty of forwarding your mail to my 'support
group' the Indian Railway Fan Club Association (IRFCA). One
can expect a much varied response to your query from the many
Indian Railway enthusiasts we have on the forum.
May I request you to join the IRFCA ?
Details on my webpage
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/">http://members.tripod.com/ApuB/</A>

Thanks

Apurva

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