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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Something from the archives

Date: 21 Apr 1999 05:56:10 -0500


Gang !

Just forwarding something which (hyperactive in the past-
currently buried deep inside a job) railnut Sundar
Krishnamurthy has posted much earlier.
Gave me great joy to read.

Apurva

Hello People....

I'm just back from a two-day trip to Bangalore and am very
happy to see
my mailbox full of your messages! Keep the bandwidth clogged!!
Sunday
now ...

I boarded the 6023 dn. MAS-SBC (Chennai Bangalore) Express
from Chennai
Central yesterday at 1:00 pm. I purchased an unreserved ticket
(Rs. 82)
for the 358 km. journey and boarded the general coach just
behind the
WAM4/6P Arrakkonam engine (I wonder what the 6P means - the
motorman had
no idea - the P is for passenger duties; but 6??) Soon the
going got
tough and the coach was jam-packed. the SR announcers
repeatedly kept
warning passengers to check for unclaimed objects; but it was
only at
Jolarpettai that we realized the tragedy in South India
yesterday
morning - bombing trains is the most REPREHENSIBLE, BARBARIC
and CRUEL
form of terrorism and needs universal condemnation. I dread to
think -
it could have been me yesterday!!!!

Well, SR is changing and how!! At Arrakkonam, I shifted coach
and moved
into the sleeper class compartment, but was promptly driven
off by the
TTC. At Katpadi, a horde of unreserved junta descended upon
the sleeper
coaches; and the TC's were left with no alternative. I joined
in the
melee and grabbed the right-facing door of the S6 coach. It
was bliss
all the way... The train surprisingly ran on time!

The entire Bangalore Chennai line is being double-tracked. The
only
visible single track section is from Kuppam on the TN border
to Malur,
and work is underway. Interestingly, Bangalore is the HQ of SW
railway -
a result of the new administrative and functional split-ups
promulgated
by the ex-railway minister. Nowhere is this new railway system
evident
except some boards on the City station.

I returned back today by 2008 MYS-MAS Shatabdi Express from
Bangalore.
The Bangalore City station precincts look inviting, and the
standby
cleaning tracks for empty trains are right in the middle of
the station!
The train is hauled by a Blue Krishnarajapuram WDM2 from
Mysore to
Bangalore (surprise! Today, it was one of those front window
types that
we discussed last week). A red-yellow WAP4 22213 from
Arrakkonam managed
affairs from Bangalore to Chennai. The ticket is 5 times(!) my

unreserved fare - Rs. 410; and the experience is like flying
on
erstwhile Vayudoot!

One strange thing - all Shatabdis and Rajdhanis employ a
private
telephone system between the motorman and guards on the train.
For this
purpose; a rigged-up contraption, comprising of few ancient
railway
point-cabin phones and miles of wire are used. The wires are
hooked on
the locomotive body by the side and are held by twisted wire
pieces.
Surely, a better method can be used???

The Shatabdi does 358 kms between the two cities in 5 hours.
That gives
an average speed of 71.6 kmph; with no intermediate halts.
Altough the
train did slow down dreadfully at a few stations; it resisted
from
halting. The service inside the train was quite good - I got
some snacks
with a packet of cashewnuts thrown in. One Asian Age paper, a
bottle of
mineral water, foil-wraped dinner and a piece of Mysore-Paaku
(a south
indian sweet) justified the ticket price. The train was full
(one of the
few Shatabdi services profitable - I guess)
and policeman strolled the coaches.

Between Jolarpettai and Bangarpet (75 kms), the train ascends
450 mts.
The two cities lie at a vertical seperation of 900 mts. and
the
potential energy change is not obvious! The only intervening
halt for
the train was outside Chennai station, waiting for a blue WDS4
shunting
operation to conclude and get the points for platform #4.

I also managed to move around on SR in Chennai and the report
will be
coming shortly.

One of my friends works for Express Computer - the Indian
Express
publication. She says that a feature can be done on the IRFCA
list and
the utility of the net in keeping our info flowing. I need
your
permission. Somebody help me??

Sundar

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: News on Calcutta Metro

Date: 21 Apr 1999 08:26:43 -0500


********************

"Delhi Metro Rail Corporation(DMRC) locks horns with Railway Board".

Serious differences have emerged between the two on the question of
gauge
size for the upcoming project.

While DMRC wants to go for 4' 83/4" which they say is the international
standard, the railway ministry wants them to adopt the 5'6" standard
broad
gauge on the IR.


Railway Board says that it wants to augument the DMRC with the present
system
and wants to use the present facilities for maintenance, storage and
repair.
It also maintains that they have the capabilities to build the rolling
stock
indegenously and there is no need to call foreign bids .

DMRC however says that it wants to import all the rolling stock etc.
which
should be
of the latest international standard, and by adopting a non standard
gauge
they will be
reducing the No. of international bidders for the job. Also the
development
of the rolling stock for a non standard gauge abroad will not be cost
effective. They say that the coach building technology of the IR is very
outdated and is useful only for building heavy coaches which are not
suitable for Metro operations.

**********************


I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does have
weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically backward,
they
should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not be
just
a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
opinions
please?

Harsh


-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
Cc: 'irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: News on Calcutta Metro


>This news stinks of management malpractice ! I always believed that the
ICF
has built
>the Metro coaches with smaller loading gauge but with indigenous
equipment.
There are
>so many competent compressor manufacturers in India (Elgi, Kirloskar
Pneumatics,
>Manecklal etc ) who already supply equipment to the IR. So what took
the
ICF and the
>Calcutta Metro so long to predict that non availability of such a
critical
part would
>paralyse the operations ? Let us built equipment which may be low tech,
but
easily
>swappable with the rest of the railway stuff. I wonder if the collapse
of
the USSR has
>something to do with this mess ?
>
>Apurva
>
>Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
>> >From an edition of The Statesman, over the weekend:
>>
>> Troubleshooter for Metro trains
>>
>> Statesman News Service
>>
>> CALCUTTA, April 18. - At last, Metro has something to cheer about. A
>> compressor, which will put a damaged train back on the tracks, has
arrived
>> from Germany.
>>
>> Eight more are likely to arrive within a month. Once they are fitted,
Metro
>> trains will hopefully run at regular intervals, without too many
snags.
>>
>> Five rakes have been dumped in the Metro's Noapara car shed for the
last
two
>> months because the compressors -- which control the brakes and
automatic
>> doors -- have failed. Each train has four compressors
>>
>> Over the months, 20 compressors have stopped working because of
overuse.
The
>> result: repeated snags and erratic train services.
>>
>> But things are likely to look up now. Eight new compressors will come
from
>> Germany's Knorr Bremese Company, the original makers of the
compressors,
>> says Mr GR Madan, general manager, Metro Railway.
>>
>> Each compressor costs around Rs 20 lakh. Orders have been placed with
the
>> Kirloskar Limited, an Indian company, for 12 indigenous ones. These
>> compressors will cost around Rs 6 lakh.
>>
>> "It will be at least three months before the indigenous compressors
are
>> ready for use, Mr Madan said. Besides, we will first have to try out
the
>> prototypes. Only if they work all right, can we go ahead and ask for
more."
>>
>> With five of their rakes down, Metro trains have been plying under
>> tremendous pressure. The 10-minute frequency hasn't be maintained
since
>> January.
>>
>> As the rakes collapsed one by one, Metro officials began to fear a
total
>> breakdown of Metro services. The 11 rakes being used now, are running
with
>> patch-up repairs.
>>
>> The authorities, therefore, have been trying desperately set things
right.
>> Knorr Bremese was initially reluctant to repair or sell just one or
two
>> compressors. A bulk order couldn't be made as their compressors were
too
>> expensive.
>
>
>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: News on Calcutta Metro

Date: 21 Apr 1999 08:26:43 -0500


********************

"Delhi Metro Rail Corporation(DMRC) locks horns with Railway Board".

Serious differences have emerged between the two on the question of
gauge
size for the upcoming project.

While DMRC wants to go for 4' 83/4" which they say is the international
standard, the railway ministry wants them to adopt the 5'6" standard
broad
gauge on the IR.


Railway Board says that it wants to augument the DMRC with the present
system
and wants to use the present facilities for maintenance, storage and
repair.
It also maintains that they have the capabilities to build the rolling
stock
indegenously and there is no need to call foreign bids .

DMRC however says that it wants to import all the rolling stock etc.
which
should be
of the latest international standard, and by adopting a non standard
gauge
they will be
reducing the No. of international bidders for the job. Also the
development
of the rolling stock for a non standard gauge abroad will not be cost
effective. They say that the coach building technology of the IR is very
outdated and is useful only for building heavy coaches which are not
suitable for Metro operations.

**********************


I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does have
weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically backward,
they
should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not be
just
a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
opinions
please?

Harsh


-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email
Cc: 'irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Wednesday, April 21, 1999 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: News on Calcutta Metro


>This news stinks of management malpractice ! I always believed that the
ICF
has built
>the Metro coaches with smaller loading gauge but with indigenous
equipment.
There are
>so many competent compressor manufacturers in India (Elgi, Kirloskar
Pneumatics,
>Manecklal etc ) who already supply equipment to the IR. So what took
the
ICF and the
>Calcutta Metro so long to predict that non availability of such a
critical
part would
>paralyse the operations ? Let us built equipment which may be low tech,
but
easily
>swappable with the rest of the railway stuff. I wonder if the collapse
of
the USSR has
>something to do with this mess ?
>
>Apurva
>
>Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
>> >From an edition of The Statesman, over the weekend:
>>
>> Troubleshooter for Metro trains
>>
>> Statesman News Service
>>
>> CALCUTTA, April 18. - At last, Metro has something to cheer about. A
>> compressor, which will put a damaged train back on the tracks, has
arrived
>> from Germany.
>>
>> Eight more are likely to arrive within a month. Once they are fitted,
Metro
>> trains will hopefully run at regular intervals, without too many
snags.
>>
>> Five rakes have been dumped in the Metro's Noapara car shed for the
last
two
>> months because the compressors -- which control the brakes and
automatic
>> doors -- have failed. Each train has four compressors
>>
>> Over the months, 20 compressors have stopped working because of
overuse.
The
>> result: repeated snags and erratic train services.
>>
>> But things are likely to look up now. Eight new compressors will come
from
>> Germany's Knorr Bremese Company, the original makers of the
compressors,
>> says Mr GR Madan, general manager, Metro Railway.
>>
>> Each compressor costs around Rs 20 lakh. Orders have been placed with
the
>> Kirloskar Limited, an Indian company, for 12 indigenous ones. These
>> compressors will cost around Rs 6 lakh.
>>
>> "It will be at least three months before the indigenous compressors
are
>> ready for use, Mr Madan said. Besides, we will first have to try out
the
>> prototypes. Only if they work all right, can we go ahead and ask for
more."
>>
>> With five of their rakes down, Metro trains have been plying under
>> tremendous pressure. The 10-minute frequency hasn't be maintained
since
>> January.
>>
>> As the rakes collapsed one by one, Metro officials began to fear a
total
>> breakdown of Metro services. The 11 rakes being used now, are running
with
>> patch-up repairs.
>>
>> The authorities, therefore, have been trying desperately set things
right.
>> Knorr Bremese was initially reluctant to repair or sell just one or
two
>> compressors. A bulk order couldn't be made as their compressors were
too
>> expensive.
>
>
>
>

From: S Pai <>

Subject: TV (US): Trans-Siberian Railway

Date: 21 Apr 1999 18:27:38 -0500



This may be of interest to some on this list. "Trans-Siberian
Railways" is a 2-hour program on Public TV stations in the USA, and on
affiliated stations elsewhere (also possibly available on
videocassette). I caught the first hour of it recently and liked it.
It's a travelogue, following a group of passengers on the train from
Moscow to Beijing. The first hour covers the stretch to Ulan-Ude near
Mongolia. In addition to the travelogue itself, there is some
interesting early (1904!) film footage of crews constructing the
railway line across Siberia and some early steam trains on the line.

--Satish

From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 21 Apr 1999 18:28:02 -0500


Folks,

I have a copy of the same, the broadcast version, which runs a little
less
than 2 hours. Does any one know about the addition content in the 2 hour
15
mts 'full' version?

-Sridhar


At 12:48 PM 4/22/99 -0400, you wrote:
>This is, indeed, a great video with quite a few shots of passing trains
>hauled by electric and diesel locos. I, too, am glad to possess one.
>With regard to the first shot of the WAP1 hauled Rajdhani, what station
>is that? Etawah? I don't seem to recall any station between Asansol
>and Barddhaman
>with that architecture - pillars between the track adjacent to the
>platform and the next track - gives a feeling that one is going through
>a corridor!! Mirzapur also has that layout. Wish they had taken a
>complete shot of the twin WDM2 hauled Rajdhani.
>
>Vijay
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jishnu Mukerji [SMTP:jis@fpk.email
>>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:09 AM
>>To: Pradip613@aol.email
>>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>>Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on
the Trans
>>Siberian Ral
>>
>>Pradip613@aol.email wrote:
>>>
>>> PBS has also shown a 3 hour documentary titled "The Great Indian
Railway."
>>> It is really an ode to the steam age. Quite well produced and very
>>> emotionally moving when they show a steam loco engineer/supervisor
>>>describing
>>> the destruction of the old locos for scrap. Has some excellent
footage of
>>> the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway.
>>
>>"The Great Indian Railway" is a National Geographic video ($19.95),
and
>>it is more like about 2hrs (115mins). You can order it from National
>>Geographic through their web store at
>><A HREF="http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm">http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm</A>. Just go to this page and
>>"search in store" for "Indian Railways"
>>
>>Unfortunately this video is not available for shipment outside US and
>>Canada at present, which probably means that it is NTSC only.
>>
>>It has some very neat sequences of the Howrah Rajdhani behind a WAP1
>>zipping by on various sections between Burdwan and Asansol. There is
>>also a shot of a double WDM2 headed Rajdhani zipping by. There is an
>>ongoing travelogue of people travelling on the Grand Trunk Express
from
>>New Delhi to Madras/Chennai. Some excellent shots of the DHR, and
>>coverage of the last Black Beauty contest of Eastern Railway, complete
>>with the then GM C.L.Caw giving away the winner trophy to the Asansol
>>shed. The loco shed supervisor of Jamalpur (if my recollection serves
me
>>right) is the gentleman who does the very emotion farewell to steam
bit,
>>which I thought was a bit overdone. However, on the whole, I liked the
>>video a lot, and needless to say, am a proud owner of a copy.
>>
>>Jishnu.
>

From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: China pictures ...

Date: 21 Apr 1999 18:39:07 -0500


Folks,

I have added some picture from my China trip to my site.

<A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sridhar_s/sri0.html">http://members.xoom.com/sridhar_s/sri0.html</A>
China rail page and China pictures page

A group of us (6 from the U of C) spent 3 weeks "studying" the political
and economic situation in China ..
We visited Beijing, Xian and Shanghai. The China Rail page has some
pictures from our only train journey from Beijing to Xi'an by train
number
"K41". This train was quite well run (there were a truck load of
tourists),
The entire rake was composed of brand new "Type 25" coaches based on
BREL's
International coach. The train was hauled by a SS8 electric (see
pictures
at the site). The train did the approx. 1250 Km in about 14 and a half
hours. On a couple of occasions when the train seemed to going a full
clip
I clocked it at 130 km/h. In the interest of time we could not take the
train from Xian to Shanghai.

Finally, I should perhaps thank our sponsors GE Capital, Deutsch Bank
and
CNA for their generous support.
-Sridhar

Also, in the China pictures page I have some general pictures including
the
Wall and some other sights.

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Delhi Metro and DMU news

Date: 21 Apr 1999 23:32:15 -0500


> While DMRC wants to go for 4' 83/4" which they say is the
international
> standard, the railway ministry wants them to adopt the 5'6" standard
broad
> gauge on the IR.
>
> I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does have
> weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically backward,
they
> should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not
be just
> a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
> they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
opinions
> please?

Dear Harsh,

What is wrong with the Calcutta Metro technology ? I feel that it is
doing a
remarkable job considering the inputs. That is why I thought that the
use of an
imported compressor was out of place.
The thought of introducing a non standard gauge like 4'81/2" reminds me
of the
decision of the NRM showing off Hornby models. There is a clear lack of
focus
here. It cannot be 'Have money - spend it'. All our equipment must be
easily
swappable with the general designs. In fact the Delhi metro must follow
the
Calcutta model.
To quote an example: The DMU that ICF has developed costs Rs. 6 crores
each,
while the bottom most unit from ABB would be Rs. 24 crores. Which means
that
four times more DMUs can be made for the same price. There is nothing
wrong with
the Indian designed DMU, it runs at 115 KMPH (in trials) and has less
than 0.5%
imported parts. Now that is something I feel very proud about. The issue
of
importing the latest technology is applicable only if we can learn the
new stuff
and spread the fruits of the learning to our existing products. Maybe we
need
some collaboration in smaller areas such as bogie design, traction
motors,
transformers, traction control system etc. but it would help to depend
on our
own resources for the whole product.
As far as the ICF DEMU (Electric transmission) is concerned BHEL (who
supply the
traction alternator and motors) tried very hard to develop an indigenous
control
system but failed miserably. Now all the DEMUs are fitted with an
imported and
expensive GAC governor and that is a pity. In fact there seems to be a
general
opinion in the railway circles that this part cannot be developed within
the
country and I have strong reservations about that. Maybe the low
quantities (not
more than 100 per annum) do not justify developing such a critical part
here.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Delhi Metro and DMU news

Date: 21 Apr 1999 23:32:15 -0500


> While DMRC wants to go for 4' 83/4" which they say is the
international
> standard, the railway ministry wants them to adopt the 5'6" standard
broad
> gauge on the IR.
>
> I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does have
> weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically backward,
they
> should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not
be just
> a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
> they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
opinions
> please?

Dear Harsh,

What is wrong with the Calcutta Metro technology ? I feel that it is
doing a
remarkable job considering the inputs. That is why I thought that the
use of an
imported compressor was out of place.
The thought of introducing a non standard gauge like 4'81/2" reminds me
of the
decision of the NRM showing off Hornby models. There is a clear lack of
focus
here. It cannot be 'Have money - spend it'. All our equipment must be
easily
swappable with the general designs. In fact the Delhi metro must follow
the
Calcutta model.
To quote an example: The DMU that ICF has developed costs Rs. 6 crores
each,
while the bottom most unit from ABB would be Rs. 24 crores. Which means
that
four times more DMUs can be made for the same price. There is nothing
wrong with
the Indian designed DMU, it runs at 115 KMPH (in trials) and has less
than 0.5%
imported parts. Now that is something I feel very proud about. The issue
of
importing the latest technology is applicable only if we can learn the
new stuff
and spread the fruits of the learning to our existing products. Maybe we
need
some collaboration in smaller areas such as bogie design, traction
motors,
transformers, traction control system etc. but it would help to depend
on our
own resources for the whole product.
As far as the ICF DEMU (Electric transmission) is concerned BHEL (who
supply the
traction alternator and motors) tried very hard to develop an indigenous
control
system but failed miserably. Now all the DEMUs are fitted with an
imported and
expensive GAC governor and that is a pity. In fact there seems to be a
general
opinion in the railway circles that this part cannot be developed within
the
country and I have strong reservations about that. Maybe the low
quantities (not
more than 100 per annum) do not justify developing such a critical part
here.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Rakes spotted

Date: 22 Apr 1999 00:35:47 -0500


Gang !

Visitors to the CR's Kurla carshed have spotted three new
complete Shatabdi (or Rajdhani - not sure of which type of
coaches except that the rakes are fully AC) style rakes
stabled there. There is some rumour that one rake is for a new
train on the KR (the CSTM - MAO intercity promised in June ?).
Which other trains are likely to augumented as a result of
these new rakes ?
My guess - Mumbai - Nasik - or Manmad or Aurangabad (hopes
soar high !) Shatabdi ?
or daily CLAT - HWH super delux ? or different rakes and slots
for CLAT - NGP and HWH super delux ?
Your two bits ?

Apurva

From: Pradip613 <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 22 Apr 1999 03:30:00 -0500


PBS has also shown a 3 hour documentary titled "The Great Indian
Railway."
It is really an ode to the steam age. Quite well produced and very
emotionally moving when they show a steam loco engineer/supervisor
describing
the destruction of the old locos for scrap. Has some excellent footage
of
the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway.

Pradip Rao

From: Sunil Bajpai <>

Subject: Re: Delhi Metro and DMU news

Date: 22 Apr 1999 05:23:25 -0500


Hi folks!

It is interesting that IR's policy too comes in for scrutiny and debate
here. All very natural and appropriate for such a mailing list.

But, gentlemen (and ladies too, if we have them on board) do we have:

. A mechanism to develop recommendations?

. A voice that is heard?

We need both to make a contribution. Of course, you could say we don't
want
to make a contribution--only have fun discussing what fascinates us!

Please do make me wiser about what we do and don't do here.

Best regards to all of you,

Sunil Bajpai

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Harsh Vardhan <hvc@vsnl.email
Cc: Shanku Niyogi <shankun@microsoft.email irfca@cs.email
<irfca@cs.email
Date: 22 April 1999 14:40
Subject: Delhi Metro and DMU news


>> While DMRC wants to go for 4' 83/4" which they say is the
international
>> standard, the railway ministry wants them to adopt the 5'6" standard
broad
>> gauge on the IR.
>>
>> I personally feel that the logic to adopt standard Indian BG does
have
>> weight. To ensure that the new metro is not technologically backward,
they
>> should import the first few lots of rolling stock. But it should not
be
just
>> a buy-sell arrangement and should include tecnology transfer also so
that
>> they can be manufactured indegenously in the long run. Comments and
opinions
>> please?
>
>Dear Harsh,
>
>What is wrong with the Calcutta Metro technology ? I feel that it is
doing
a
>remarkable job considering the inputs. That is why I thought that the
use
of an
>imported compressor was out of place.
>The thought of introducing a non standard gauge like 4'81/2" reminds me
of
the
>decision of the NRM showing off Hornby models. There is a clear lack
of
focus
>here. It cannot be 'Have money - spend it'. All our equipment must be
easily
>swappable with the general designs. In fact the Delhi metro must follow
the
>Calcutta model.
>To quote an example: The DMU that ICF has developed costs Rs. 6 crores
each,
>while the bottom most unit from ABB would be Rs. 24 crores. Which means
that
>four times more DMUs can be made for the same price. There is nothing
wrong
with
>the Indian designed DMU, it runs at 115 KMPH (in trials) and has less
than
0.5%
>imported parts. Now that is something I feel very proud about. The
issue of
>importing the latest technology is applicable only if we can learn the
new
stuff
>and spread the fruits of the learning to our existing products. Maybe
we
need
>some collaboration in smaller areas such as bogie design, traction
motors,
>transformers, traction control system etc. but it would help to depend
on
our
>own resources for the whole product.
>As far as the ICF DEMU (Electric transmission) is concerned BHEL (who
supply the
>traction alternator and motors) tried very hard to develop an
indigenous
control
>system but failed miserably. Now all the DEMUs are fitted with an
imported
and
>expensive GAC governor and that is a pity. In fact there seems to be a
general
>opinion in the railway circles that this part cannot be developed
within
the
>country and I have strong reservations about that. Maybe the low
quantities
(not
>more than 100 per annum) do not justify developing such a critical
part
here.
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>

From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: Re: Chinese Trains vs. IR

Date: 22 Apr 1999 06:25:22 -0500


Karthik,

>1. The so-called "Hard Class" sleeper on the express trains that we
>traveled in seems to compare with the comfort of the AC-3-tier coaches
on IR.
> At least in the winter, the train was heated. I don't know if
there
is air-conditioning in summer.
> My Lonely Planet guide (highly recommended, by the way!) leads me
to
> believe that this train was possibly the exception rather than
the
rule (perhaps
> it is a Rajdhani/ Shatabdi class train).

I believe so. The train to Xian is also frequented by tourists and
therefore gets special treatment (it was an all A/C train). The train
only
had hard sleeper, soft sleeper and one soft seat coach.

>2. The Chinese take their eating very seriously. The fully-equipped
>restaurant car
> on the train had nice tables, linen, and even a small wet-bar.
Cooking

They bar is quite well stocked too ... By the way, do they sell liquor
in
Rajdhani and Shatabdi?

>4. When you board the train, the attendant (equivalent to the TTE?)
takes
away your
> ticket and issues you a token. When you leave the train, you give
the
token back
> and retrieve your ticket. A long-time China hand from the Indian
embassy in
> Beijing told me this system probably stems from the need to
monitor
>and control the movements of citizens. However, I thought it is also a
rather neat
>way to monitor occupancy levels and berth vacancies. (The attendant has
a
>folder for the plastic tokens. Each token has a unique slot in the
folder, so the
>attendant can tell at a glance how many berths are occupied -- and
which ones
>exactly.) This also allows attendants to tell passengers when to get
off.

There were atleast a couple of attendants per coach, performing random
tasks. This does make for a oppressive atmosphere compared to IR. There
is
no question of keeping the door open when the train is in motion, for
example, and that to me is most of the 'value add' in travelling by IR.

They also keep the toilets locked when the train is stationary, which I
think is a good idea ...


> The military tradition is also evident in the fact that all
>attendants salute stiffly as the train leaves the station.
Incidentally,
on our return trip from
>Shanghai, one of the attendants (most appeared to be females) spent
quite
a bit of
>time arranging all the passengers' shoes in a neat line. I think this
was
over and
>above the normal call of duty.
> Incidentally, the overall level of cleanliness on the train was
much
>better than IR's standards. (Again, I don't know if this is an
exception
or the rule...)

True, even before the train reached Xian, they essentially shut down the
rest rooms, and began cleaning up.

>6. As the Lonely Planet guide had warned us, the public address system
>blares a constant stream of music and government propaganda, at least
in the
>opening hours of the journey. Unfortunately, I don't know Mandarin, but
from the
>procession of names being trotted out, it sounded like a litany of
leaders
in Communist China, starting >from Mao Zedong and leading up to Jiang
Zimin.

They sure love thier propaganda and it seems to be quite effective. The
majority of college students we spoke to (including some studying
economics!) thought that capitalism was expliotation of man by man and
that
they were quite content with socialism.

-Sridhar

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Rakes spotted

Date: 22 Apr 1999 06:35:35 -0500


Which rake does the weekly CLAT-HWH superdeluxe uses at the moment.

Harsh

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, April 23, 1999 12:10 AM
Subject: Rakes spotted


>Gang !
>
>Visitors to the CR's Kurla carshed have spotted three new
>complete Shatabdi (or Rajdhani - not sure of which type of
>coaches except that the rakes are fully AC) style rakes
>stabled there. There is some rumour that one rake is for a new
>train on the KR (the CSTM - MAO intercity promised in June ?).
>Which other trains are likely to augumented as a result of
>these new rakes ?
>My guess - Mumbai - Nasik - or Manmad or Aurangabad (hopes
>soar high !) Shatabdi ?
>or daily CLAT - HWH super delux ? or different rakes and slots
>for CLAT - NGP and HWH super delux ?
>Your two bits ?
>
>Apurva
>
>
>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Still more stuff from the archieve

Date: 22 Apr 1999 06:51:57 -0500




><pic of WAP5 60009 (it could be 80009??) - a cream top, double
>orange
>stripes - completely hoizontal, and green bottomed NR
>Ghaziabad
>locomotive in floral splendor at NDLS New Delhi railway station>
>- ----------------------------------------------


The WAG5 series starts from 30000 so it must be 30009.

And I just have the feeling that it was these locos which Porus spotted
at
Busar.

Question : Do these locos ever arrive at Bombay? If not, what is 2151/52
Rajdhani power on the DC line?

Harsh

From: Sridhar Shankarnarayan <>

Subject: U.S. diesel locos to be housed in new Hubli shed

Date: 22 Apr 1999 06:58:47 -0500


From The Hindu
-Sridhar
--------------------------------------------------------

U.S. diesel locos to be housed in new Hubli shed

Date: 24-04-1999 :: Pg: 09 :: Col: a

By Our Special Correspondent

HUBLI, APRIL 23. When the first batch of the diesel
engines,
imported from the
U.S. reached Hubli last week, it marked the first major
step
for the Indian Railways
for the phased induction of the state-of-the-art high
speed
diesel locomotives.

The 4,100 hp diesel locos obtained from the General
Motors,
are to be housed at
Hubli, where a Rs. 19-crore new diesel loco shed is being
built. The Diesel Loco
Works, Varanasi, would build it in collaboration with the
General Motors, as part
of a technology transfer arrangement.

The General Motors has promised to assist in training the
crew for which a Rs.
5.50-crore technology training centre, has been
sanctioned
and is being set up in
Hubli.

The new locos belong to the latest technology, which is
hardly two years old. They
have the AC-AC transmission system, instead of the AC- DC
currently used here.
The AC-AC transmission is considered the most reliable,
which also helps in
reducing maintenance problems. The new engines come back
to
the shed for
maintenance once in 90 days, instead of weekly schedule
for
the existing ones.
They are said to be 10-15 per cent more fuel efficient
and
are equipped with the
computerised air brake system with the computers located
inside for monitoring
the parameters.

The Railways have been running against time to make the
facilities available here to
synchronise with the arrival of the engines. When the
project started taking shape
two years ago, Mr. S. C. Sood, the Additional Divisional
Manager of the Hubli
Division of the South Central Railway, was handpicked as
the
Chief Project
Manager by the Railway Board. After completion of the
necessary preliminaries,
the work began on a 16- hectare land on the outskirts of
Hubli last year. The
project authorities, had just around 10 to 11 months to
complete the job, faced
challenge in the form of the black soil of terrain. After
filling the area with
`murram', they took recourse to pile foundation
technique.
The civil works began
in April last year, and have been completed practically,
with the remaining works
of administrative building, the test room and ware house
slated for completion by
June.

The designs given by the General Motors have been
modified
and indigenised,
incorporating the newer concepts. For example, it is
going
to be a pitless loco
shed, for examining the engines, which is something new
in
the Indian Railways.
The pits have been dispensed with and replaced by a
common
floor at one level,
which would facilitate easier movement of the workers.

The Indian Oil Corporation has set up Rs. 1.8 crores
facility on the site itself for
meeting the requirement, and has blended for the first
time,
special type of
lubricating oil required for the engines.

Separate wash house, with systematic washing facility,
with
arrangements made to
separate water and oil from the point of view of avoiding
pollution, has been
introduced.

A total of 12 engines, have been brought here from
Calcutta,
where they landed
and they will be joined by eight more, which came in the
partially knocked down
(PKD) condition in Varanasi. The process of assembling
the
engines, testing them
for load and speed trials and getting the clearance from
the
Chief Commissioner
for Railway Safety, is currently under way.

The new engines, which would be tested by the RDSO, for
speed and load, would
be put for haulage mainly of the iron ore traffic from
Hospet to Castle Rock and
Hospet to Guntakal sector.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Rakes spotted

Date: 22 Apr 1999 06:59:41 -0500


>Gang !
>
>Visitors to the CR's Kurla carshed have spotted three new
>complete Shatabdi (or Rajdhani - not sure of which type of
>coaches except that the rakes are fully AC) style rakes
>stabled there. There is some rumour that one rake is for a new
>train on the KR (the CSTM - MAO intercity promised in June ?).
>Which other trains are likely to augumented as a result of
>these new rakes ?
>My guess - Mumbai - Nasik - or Manmad or Aurangabad (hopes
>soar high !) Shatabdi ?
>or daily CLAT - HWH super delux ? or different rakes and slots
>for CLAT - NGP and HWH super delux ?
>Your two bits ?
>

This is interesting! Can you get more info. on the liveries of these
rakes? With the increase in frequency of the CLAT-HWH superdeluxe to
triweekly from once-a-week, an extra rake will be needed. With
present speeds, CSTM-MAO-CSTM cannot be accomplished in one day
(unless the arr./dep. times at CSTM are atrocious). They may very
well try to terminate the train at CLAT itself. An Aurangabad
Shatabdi will be a definitely boon to Maharashtra, connecting Nasik
and Aurangabad with Mumbai. (I have attached my version of the
Aurangabad Shatabdi for those of you who are interested).

Vijay






>Apurva
>
>
>


_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit <A HREF="http://www.msn.com">http://www.msn.com</A>

From: Jishnu Mukerji <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 22 Apr 1999 08:09:29 -0500


Pradip613@aol.email wrote:
>
> PBS has also shown a 3 hour documentary titled "The Great Indian
Railway."
> It is really an ode to the steam age. Quite well produced and very
> emotionally moving when they show a steam loco engineer/supervisor
describing
> the destruction of the old locos for scrap. Has some excellent
footage of
> the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway.

"The Great Indian Railway" is a National Geographic video ($19.95), and
it is more like about 2hrs (115mins). You can order it from National
Geographic through their web store at
<A HREF="http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm">http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm</A>. Just go to this page and
"search in store" for "Indian Railways"

Unfortunately this video is not available for shipment outside US and
Canada at present, which probably means that it is NTSC only.

It has some very neat sequences of the Howrah Rajdhani behind a WAP1
zipping by on various sections between Burdwan and Asansol. There is
also a shot of a double WDM2 headed Rajdhani zipping by. There is an
ongoing travelogue of people travelling on the Grand Trunk Express from
New Delhi to Madras/Chennai. Some excellent shots of the DHR, and
coverage of the last Black Beauty contest of Eastern Railway, complete
with the then GM C.L.Caw giving away the winner trophy to the Asansol
shed. The loco shed supervisor of Jamalpur (if my recollection serves me
right) is the gentleman who does the very emotion farewell to steam bit,
which I thought was a bit overdone. However, on the whole, I liked the
video a lot, and needless to say, am a proud owner of a copy.

Jishnu.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on the Trans Siberian Ral

Date: 22 Apr 1999 09:48:14 -0500


This is, indeed, a great video with quite a few shots of passing trains
hauled by electric and diesel locos. I, too, am glad to possess one.
With regard to the first shot of the WAP1 hauled Rajdhani, what station
is that? Etawah? I don't seem to recall any station between Asansol
and Barddhaman
with that architecture - pillars between the track adjacent to the
platform and the next track - gives a feeling that one is going through
a corridor!! Mirzapur also has that layout. Wish they had taken a
complete shot of the twin WDM2 hauled Rajdhani.

Vijay

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Jishnu Mukerji [SMTP:jis@fpk.email
>Sent: Thursday, April 22, 1999 11:09 AM
>To: Pradip613@aol.email
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Subject: Re: Further to S Pai' comments regarding TV show on
the Trans
>Siberian Ral
>
>Pradip613@aol.email wrote:
>>
>> PBS has also shown a 3 hour documentary titled "The Great Indian
Railway."
>> It is really an ode to the steam age. Quite well produced and very
>> emotionally moving when they show a steam loco engineer/supervisor
>>describing
>> the destruction of the old locos for scrap. Has some excellent
footage of
>> the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway.
>
>"The Great Indian Railway" is a National Geographic video ($19.95), and
>it is more like about 2hrs (115mins). You can order it from National
>Geographic through their web store at
><A HREF="http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm">http://www.ngstore.com/ngstore/ngsstore.htm</A>. Just go to this page and
>"search in store" for "Indian Railways"
>
>Unfortunately this video is not available for shipment outside US and
>Canada at present, which probably means that it is NTSC only.
>
>It has some very neat sequences of the Howrah Rajdhani behind a WAP1
>zipping by on various sections between Burdwan and Asansol. There is
>also a shot of a double WDM2 headed Rajdhani zipping by. There is an
>ongoing travelogue of people travelling on the Grand Trunk Express from
>New Delhi to Madras/Chennai. Some excellent shots of the DHR, and
>coverage of the last Black Beauty contest of Eastern Railway, complete
>with the then GM C.L.Caw giving away the winner trophy to the Asansol
>shed. The loco shed supervisor of Jamalpur (if my recollection serves
me
>right) is the gentleman who does the very emotion farewell to steam
bit,
>which I thought was a bit overdone. However, on the whole, I liked the
>video a lot, and needless to say, am a proud owner of a copy.
>
>Jishnu.

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: More pictures + FAQ update

Date: 22 Apr 1999 10:52:09 -0500


I have been meaning to comment on these photos - they are excellent.
The various shots of the Rajdhanis are precious footage - my favorite is
the
WAP5-hauled B'neswar Raj. whizzing past Durgapur - it has graced my
desktop for quite a few days.

With regard to the overake by the two Rajs., where did this happen?
Before or after Aligarh?

A correction for the captions 5 and 6 on "New-Delhi Howrah by Poorva
Exp.". The first Raj. is the 2306 Dn. (not 2302) - via Patna. 2302 and
2422 share the same slot but run on different days. Besides 2302 would
be hauled by a WAP5 and not WAP1.

Vijay

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shanku Niyogi [SMTP:shankun@microsoft.email
>Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 12:56 AM
>To: 'irfca@cs.email
>Subject: More pictures + FAQ update
>
>I now have the last batch of pictures from my India trip on my web
site.
>They include
>- pictures of the WAP5, WAG9, WAP1, WAP6, WDP1, and various goods locos
on
>the HWH-NDLS line.
>- pictures of the WDS4 bringing the Rajdhani rake into Howrah station
>- very close (20 feet + zoom) shots of two Rajdhanis passing my train
(less
>than 5 minutes apart!)
>- a shot of the new green-yellow GT rake
>- a couple of shots of the twin-Rajdhani WDM2s (with the 2305 Up Raj,
which
>I was on) at Madhupur station.
>
>That makes 61 shots in all from the trip on the site (there were more,
but
>not worth scanning). My only wish is that I'd been able to get a
picture of
>a Shatabdi - alas, New Delhi station was too crowded to get a good shot
of
>one. Also, next time I will have to come out west and catch some WCAMs.
>
>The gallery format is at
<A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images.html</A>.
>
>The single page list of all images is at
><A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html</A>
>
>
>I am currently working on getting the FAQ (put together by Satish) onto
the
>irfca.org website - I'll have something there by the end of the
weekend.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Shanku

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: More pictures + FAQ update

Date: 22 Apr 1999 10:52:09 -0500


I have been meaning to comment on these photos - they are excellent.
The various shots of the Rajdhanis are precious footage - my favorite is
the
WAP5-hauled B'neswar Raj. whizzing past Durgapur - it has graced my
desktop for quite a few days.

With regard to the overake by the two Rajs., where did this happen?
Before or after Aligarh?

A correction for the captions 5 and 6 on "New-Delhi Howrah by Poorva
Exp.". The first Raj. is the 2306 Dn. (not 2302) - via Patna. 2302 and
2422 share the same slot but run on different days. Besides 2302 would
be hauled by a WAP5 and not WAP1.

Vijay

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Shanku Niyogi [SMTP:shankun@microsoft.email
>Sent: Friday, April 09, 1999 12:56 AM
>To: 'irfca@cs.email
>Subject: More pictures + FAQ update
>
>I now have the last batch of pictures from my India trip on my web
site.
>They include
>- pictures of the WAP5, WAG9, WAP1, WAP6, WDP1, and various goods locos
on
>the HWH-NDLS line.
>- pictures of the WDS4 bringing the Rajdhani rake into Howrah station
>- very close (20 feet + zoom) shots of two Rajdhanis passing my train
(less
>than 5 minutes apart!)
>- a shot of the new green-yellow GT rake
>- a couple of shots of the twin-Rajdhani WDM2s (with the 2305 Up Raj,
which
>I was on) at Madhupur station.
>
>That makes 61 shots in all from the trip on the site (there were more,
but
>not worth scanning). My only wish is that I'd been able to get a
picture of
>a Shatabdi - alas, New Delhi station was too crowded to get a good shot
of
>one. Also, next time I will have to come out west and catch some WCAMs.
>
>The gallery format is at
<A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images.html</A>.
>
>The single page list of all images is at
><A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html</A>
>
>
>I am currently working on getting the FAQ (put together by Satish) onto
the
>irfca.org website - I'll have something there by the end of the
weekend.
>
>Enjoy!
>
>Shanku

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