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From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: WDM2 vs. WDM2a

Date: 11 Mar 1999 04:49:04 -0500


Hi Annie,
Actually, I was most seriously suggesting 3mm scale, for just the
same
reason of space!
I mentioned 4mm just to show what the possibilities -- and problems
--
were.
I use a lot of HO (1:87) components, as size differences are
negligible,
and they often look better (overscale is not unheard-of in HO either!) I
agree the sideframes are more of a worry though. However, given the
differences in loading gauge between Indian and US locos and stock, it
may
be worth making a few measurements before jumping in. Jane's World
Railways
has the loading gauges for IR and many other railways, too.
I'm not trying to pour cold water -- it is just that I have spent,
cumulatively, hundreds of hours cursing myself for not checking things
out
first!
Good luck with the project
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
To: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Thursday, 11 March 1999 7:10
Subject: WDM2 vs. WDM2a


>Can someone enlighten me what the differences in appearance
>are between the WDM2 and the WDM2a?
>
> At long last, I'm finally getting started on the WDM2.
>
>I've a problem with Ken Walker's 1:76 suggestion.
>I don't have 1:76 sideframes available. I have 1:87 sideframes.
>
>While I could make sideframes for this project, that wouldn't
>solve the larger problem of sideframes in general.
>
>One other objection to 1:76 - it's noticably bigger than HO,
>and few Indian homes have any extra space in them.
>
>If I build it in 1:87, that gives me a gauge of 19.2mm
>It also has the advantage that I can buy parts like horns
>and MU receptacles.
>
>So, it looks like good old HO for me.
>

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: DHR Motive power

Date: 11 Mar 1999 05:16:14 -0500


Dear Apurva and Jayant,
The Kitson-Meyer you are thinking of was built for the Kalka-Simla
line
in 1928. There were two, but they went to the Kangra Valley line around
1930. Later still they went to Pakistan; according to Hugh Hughes, they
were
converted to MG there in 1952! went to other NWR (as it then was) lines.
The
K-M design was very flexible and was extensively used in South America,
most
notably on the nitrate lines in northern Chile.
Cheers
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: sank@telco.email <sank@telco.email
Cc: IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Monday, 8 March 1999 5:14
Subject: Re: DHR Motive power


>
>
>Jayant S wrote:
>
>> > In latin america there was a different type of articulated, the
Kitson-Meyer,
>> > which did very well on narrow gauges in mountain terrain ...
>>
>> Just a minute. I remember vaguely that the
>> Matheran line did use Kitson-Meyers: is that correct ?
>> If so, they would have been on the 2ft gauge.
>
>Orentstein and Koppel ?. I have a few pics of those locos which would
be
uploaded
>very soon.
>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
>> Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
>> TEL 91(20)702534 : FAX 91(20)773191
>> --
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: WCAM model

Date: 11 Mar 1999 06:59:39 -0500


Hello Apurva,
How about uploading the pic on the net for all of us to see? I've only
seen a line drawing of the WDM/3 in Daboo's book: the engine apparently
has a low nose profile in both the hoods.
Best regards.
Shankar



Apurva Bahadur wrote:
>
> There was another obscure Indian Loco the WDM 3 which was a
> Diesel
> Hydrualic from Henschell. Larry Russell has kindly sent a very
> rare (the only one
> I have seen) picture of this loco in the Indian Railway
> livery. As a
> diesel fan I could recommend that loco, which is a BOBO, could
> go well
> with your WDM 2 model. I could forward this pic by email to
> Anne if she
> so desires, let me know ...
>
> Apurva
>
> Jayant S wrote:
>
> > Anne Ogborn wrote:
> > > I'd like to convert it to some Indian prototype. I'm hoping
someone
> > > on this list can suggest a suitable model of locomotive.
> >
> > Seems to have been a dual-voltage loco. If I find more
> > on this I'll pass it on.
> >
> > Seeing that it is a Bo-Bo: I think you're better off
> > trying to make a WAG1 or a WAM1 out of it, and it
> > will still need considerable body rebuilding. Adding
> > another axle to each truck to turn it into a Co-Co
> > will probably be prohibitive.
> >
> > --
> > Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
> > Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
> > TEL 91(20)702534 : FAX 91(20)773191
> > --

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: More pictures

Date: 11 Mar 1999 07:00:11 -0500


Hellu shanku,
Terrific site. It reminded me of my younger days: I spent the first
twekve years of my life (1959-71) in Durgapur. Towards the end of our
stint there, I remember several green and black electrics appearing,
with an occasional maroon one. Most were based at Sealdah, Asansol etc.
And though I was too young to know about classes etc. I remember that
many trains did not stop at Durgapur, so several of my father's friends
used to hire taxis so tha tthey could catch trains at Asansol.
Would yo believe it, I've never seen Asansol myself, for on the onward
journey, kalka mail used to reach it past 2200, and on the return, it
used to come at an unearthly 0430 or something.
The site sure did bring back several memories! Thank you very much.
Bet regards.
Shankar




Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
> Although I have not had a chance to complete the report on Asansol
station
> yet, the pictures from this series are now available, including a
couple of
> pictures of a plinthed BK class steam loco from Asansol station. Also,
I
> have uploaded the missing pictures in the Asansol shed series.
Thumbnails
> are not available for these pictures yet.
>
> To view the pictures, you can go to the Asansol page at
> <A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/asansol.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/asansol.html</A>
> and click on an image to open the image gallery, then use the right
arrow
> button to scroll forward through the available images. Or, if you
don't have
> a Javascript-enabled browser, or wish to see the whole list of images,
go to
>
> <A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html</A>
>
> The next batch will be from the Howrah-Kulti trip, including a picture
of a
> plinthed E.I.R. CS class locomotive from Fairlie place (including
close-up
> views of the interior), several passing shots of goods trains, and a
> close-up frontal shot of a WAP5 heading the Bhubaneswar Raj through
Durgapur
> station.
>
> Enjoy!

From: Shankar <>

Subject: Re: More pictures

Date: 11 Mar 1999 07:00:11 -0500


Hellu shanku,
Terrific site. It reminded me of my younger days: I spent the first
twekve years of my life (1959-71) in Durgapur. Towards the end of our
stint there, I remember several green and black electrics appearing,
with an occasional maroon one. Most were based at Sealdah, Asansol etc.
And though I was too young to know about classes etc. I remember that
many trains did not stop at Durgapur, so several of my father's friends
used to hire taxis so tha tthey could catch trains at Asansol.
Would yo believe it, I've never seen Asansol myself, for on the onward
journey, kalka mail used to reach it past 2200, and on the return, it
used to come at an unearthly 0430 or something.
The site sure did bring back several memories! Thank you very much.
Bet regards.
Shankar




Shanku Niyogi wrote:
>
> Although I have not had a chance to complete the report on Asansol
station
> yet, the pictures from this series are now available, including a
couple of
> pictures of a plinthed BK class steam loco from Asansol station. Also,
I
> have uploaded the missing pictures in the Asansol shed series.
Thumbnails
> are not available for these pictures yet.
>
> To view the pictures, you can go to the Asansol page at
> <A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/asansol.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/asansol.html</A>
> and click on an image to open the image gallery, then use the right
arrow
> button to scroll forward through the available images. Or, if you
don't have
> a Javascript-enabled browser, or wish to see the whole list of images,
go to
>
> <A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html</A>
>
> The next batch will be from the Howrah-Kulti trip, including a picture
of a
> plinthed E.I.R. CS class locomotive from Fairlie place (including
close-up
> views of the interior), several passing shots of goods trains, and a
> close-up frontal shot of a WAP5 heading the Bhubaneswar Raj through
Durgapur
> station.
>
> Enjoy!

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: More pictures

Date: 11 Mar 1999 08:49:19 -0500


Shanku,

Neat pictures. Asansol seems to be a great location - is it a
divisional HQ? It was nice to see the WAG4 which we do not see in
the south. The WDM2 18153 (the one that hauled in the Udyan Abha)
standing
by itself late in the evening made a fine sight.

-Sridhar

****************************************************************

Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: More pictures

Date: 11 Mar 1999 08:49:19 -0500


Shanku,

Neat pictures. Asansol seems to be a great location - is it a
divisional HQ? It was nice to see the WAG4 which we do not see in
the south. The WDM2 18153 (the one that hauled in the Udyan Abha)
standing
by itself late in the evening made a fine sight.

-Sridhar

****************************************************************

Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Site update

Date: 11 Mar 1999 11:06:24 -0500


Folks,

I have updated my website with some more pics. The new stuff includes:
NMR page 2, MG Page and a SantaFe Page. Also new is one additional
picture
(of a Guntakal WDM2 hauling in the Kanyakumari-Mumbai express into
Guntakal station) in the WDM2 page.

I will be off to China for a few weeks starting next tuesday and hope to
come back with some pics of China Rail (or whatever it is called),
especially the DF4B (China's WDM2).

-Sridhar

****************************************************************

Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Site update

Date: 11 Mar 1999 11:06:24 -0500


Folks,

I have updated my website with some more pics. The new stuff includes:
NMR page 2, MG Page and a SantaFe Page. Also new is one additional
picture
(of a Guntakal WDM2 hauling in the Kanyakumari-Mumbai express into
Guntakal station) in the WDM2 page.

I will be off to China for a few weeks starting next tuesday and hope to
come back with some pics of China Rail (or whatever it is called),
especially the DF4B (China's WDM2).

-Sridhar

****************************************************************

Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Pictures

Date: 11 Mar 1999 11:09:10 -0500


Folks,

the url is

<A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sridhar_s/sri0.html">http://members.xoom.com/sridhar_s/sri0.html</A>

-Sridhar

****************************************************************

Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
*****************************************************************

From: Shanku Niyogi <>

Subject: More pictures!

Date: 11 Mar 1999 21:27:49 -0500


The pictures from the Howrah-Kulti trip are now available on the net, at
the
same place as before.

The picture gallery is now accessible on its own, as long as you have a
Javascript-capable browser - try
<A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images.html</A>
If this doesn't work for you, try the text listing at
<A HREF="http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html">http://threshold.simplenet.com/india99/images_all.html</A>

The next batch will be from the Rajdhani trip to NDLS, and will include
shots of the twin Rajdhani WDM2s as well as some locos standing at
Howrah
station.

I know I am falling behind on doing reports to accompany these
photographs,
but scanning is so much fun! :)

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: WDM2 vs. WDM2a

Date: 12 Mar 1999 00:33:27 -0500


Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath wrote:
>
> Hi Annie,
> Actually, I was most seriously suggesting 3mm scale, for just the
same
> reason of space!
> I mentioned 4mm just to show what the possibilities -- and problems
--
> were.
> I use a lot of HO (1:87) components, as size differences are
negligible,
> and they often look better (overscale is not unheard-of in HO either!)
I
> agree the sideframes are more of a worry though. However, given the
> differences in loading gauge between Indian and US locos and stock, it
may
> be worth making a few measurements before jumping in. Jane's World
Railways
> has the loading gauges for IR and many other railways, too.
> I'm not trying to pour cold water -- it is just that I have spent,
> cumulatively, hundreds of hours cursing myself for not checking things
out
> first!
> Good luck with the project
> Ken Walker
>

I sat down this morning and started to cut the deck plate, and was
suprised how
small it was. Had to go back and check. It's only 9ft - 4in over the cab
according
to the plans you sent, which is a tad smaller than US loading gage.

Dumb question - we occasionally get Marklin equipment here, and I always
assumed
it was HO - 1:87, because it's got HO sized doors, etc. and it's a tad
smaller in
the body, which I'd expect of european loading plates.

According to the Roco site, they make HO, N, and European Narrow Gage
1:45 Om

So I assume the 181 I have is 1:87.

Anyway, you've not yet convinced me that 1:76 is the way to go.
As I get more serious about the WDM2 I notice more and more things I can
buy instead of make on it - horn, MU boxes, ditch lights, door handles,
headlight....
And, once I get the loco made, I've got the problem of making a world -
structures,
figures, vehicles - it all sounds easier in a commercially available
gauge.

From Apurva's reports, HO is what most Indian modellers are using, using
european import equipment on 5/8" track. I intend to widen the gauge so
it's right,
but if/when this becomes a resin kit I'll sell it with the option of
either 5'-6"
or 4'-8 1/2" gage.

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Site update

Date: 12 Mar 1999 00:37:49 -0500


Shanku, now I'm torn - that two tone blue paint scheme on
17269 (top pic, your WDM2 page) is certainly attractive.
I'd thought of doing the boxcar red (red-brown) with yellow
lightning bolts livery, but now I'm undecided.

Of course, if I do SR livery, I get to model SR scenery.
I sure remember Kerala fondly I'd love to do all banana trees
and coconuts.

Annie

From: Anne Ogborn <>

Subject: Re: Site update

Date: 12 Mar 1999 00:37:49 -0500


Shanku, now I'm torn - that two tone blue paint scheme on
17269 (top pic, your WDM2 page) is certainly attractive.
I'd thought of doing the boxcar red (red-brown) with yellow
lightning bolts livery, but now I'm undecided.

Of course, if I do SR livery, I get to model SR scenery.
I sure remember Kerala fondly I'd love to do all banana trees
and coconuts.

Annie

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Pictures

Date: 12 Mar 1999 01:50:33 -0500


The Guntakal WDM 2 17269 at Guntakal (?) is just too good. I also
appreciate the pictures of unbelievably clean and idyllic MG stations.
The unigauging will allow the filthy North Indians (OK, anyone else but
the SR gang) to enter and spoil the elegant scenes shown in the
pictures.

Apurva

Sridhar Shankar wrote:

> Folks,
>
> the url is
>
> <A HREF="http://members.xoom.com/sridhar_s/sri0.html">http://members.xoom.com/sridhar_s/sri0.html</A>
>
> -Sridhar
>
> ****************************************************************
> Sridhar Shankar 1616 E. 50th Place, Apt.13A
> GSB MBA '99 Chicago, IL 60615
> University of Chicago (773) 752 1131
> *****************************************************************

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: query/ Exhaust Gas Analysis

Date: 12 Mar 1999 01:56:13 -0500


Are the loco sheds not sufficiently qualified to define this analysis on
their
own ? I suppose THEY should know how the analysis is done. There is a
full
fledged department (COFMOW) of the railways, RDSO as well as DLW
themselves
which should have the equipment and the methodology.

Apurva

Harsh Vardhan wrote:

> You can do this by using an on-line or portable flue gas analyser. It
will
> give you the measure of CO2 %, CO% and O2%. There are charts to
determine
> the efficiency of the engine through these results.
> There are several manufacturers of these analysers and you commonly
see
> these with pollution control authorities as well.
> A good digital portable flue gas analyser is made by Forbes Marshall
of Pune
> and it costs about 25,000 Rs. It also has direct measurement of
efficiency
> calculations built-in.
> Trust this will suffice.
>
> Harsh
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Site update

Date: 12 Mar 1999 02:01:09 -0500


I thought that the dark green WDM 2 picture on Shanku's site looks
great. Guntakal locos are all over Pune Jn. so we hold no novelty
for them, but a green loco ....

Apurva

Anne Ogborn wrote:

> Shanku, now I'm torn - that two tone blue paint scheme on
> 17269 (top pic, your WDM2 page) is certainly attractive.
> I'd thought of doing the boxcar red (red-brown) with yellow
> lightning bolts livery, but now I'm undecided.
>
> Of course, if I do SR livery, I get to model SR scenery.
> I sure remember Kerala fondly I'd love to do all banana trees
> and coconuts.
>
> Annie

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Site update

Date: 12 Mar 1999 02:01:09 -0500


I thought that the dark green WDM 2 picture on Shanku's site looks
great. Guntakal locos are all over Pune Jn. so we hold no novelty
for them, but a green loco ....

Apurva

Anne Ogborn wrote:

> Shanku, now I'm torn - that two tone blue paint scheme on
> 17269 (top pic, your WDM2 page) is certainly attractive.
> I'd thought of doing the boxcar red (red-brown) with yellow
> lightning bolts livery, but now I'm undecided.
>
> Of course, if I do SR livery, I get to model SR scenery.
> I sure remember Kerala fondly I'd love to do all banana trees
> and coconuts.
>
> Annie

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: More pictures!

Date: 12 Mar 1999 06:38:21 -0500


Great pictures. Brings back memories of my various trips between
Varanasi/Mughalsarai and Asansol/Howrah in the late 70s and early 80s.
I used to love traveling via the Grand Chord section and catching the
various Bo-Bo electric locos. in action. Did you spot a WAM3? Are
these still in operation? These look similar to the WAM2 except for the
orientation of the pantographs (facing inward as in the case of the
YAM1).

Vijay

From: Vijay Balasubramanian <>

Subject: Re: More pictures!

Date: 12 Mar 1999 06:38:59 -0500


Great pictures. Brings back memories of my various trips between
Varanasi/Mughalsarai and Asansol/Howrah in the late 70s and early 80s.
I used to love traveling via the Grand Chord section and catching the
various Bo-Bo electric locos. in action. Did you spot a WAM3? Are
these still in operation? These look similar to the WAM2 except for the
orientation of the pantographs (facing inward as in the case of the
YAM1).

Vijay

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