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From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: DHR QUERY

Date: 04 Feb 1999 22:55:39 -0500



>> Harsh, how is it they're claiming the train is damaging the cart
road?


I wish I was as knowledgeable as these chaps to answer that but what the
report says is briefly given below.


"Axe the toy train, say reports of Geological Survey of India. The toy
train
service between Siliguri and Darjeeling may soon come to a halt provided
the
Geological Survey of India has its way. The suggesetion to do away with
the
train service is among GSI's several remedial measures to save hill
roads
from subsidence. Recommending closure of the toy train service, the
report
said higher slopes should be kept free to allow normal flow of the
streams.
Since existing rail tracks crossed through the slopes, many streams had
changed courses damaging roads to a considerable extent."


To a normal person it would seem that the same holds true for the cart
road
also which is much hugging the track. But it appears that the HCR is a
holy
cow and it would be sacrilege to say anything against it so why not pick
on
the poor train which nobody seems to bother about.

The train has been in existence for over a hundred years and nothing
much
has changed since the begining with a maximum of 3 trains a day in each
direction at the most. But the HCR was never built with motor transport
in
mind. While travelling on the DHR on eight occasions in the past fifteen
years, I have always noticed that it is invariably the road which gets
most
affected by the moonsoons and subsides, while the track mostly remains
virtually unaffected. Surely it is the road traffic that loosens the
foundations to such an extent that they become vulnerable to the
monsoon,
which washes it down the mountainside and drags the railway with it. To
me
it seems that if the freight traffic was returned to the railway, the
axle
load would be spread over a much wider base and prevent the continual
pounding of the road. Would the additional four hour taken by railway
for
the goods to travel make any impact on the business of Darjeeling? One
also
has to take into considerations the ecological damage caused by the
diesel
spewing vehicles travelling uphill.

And by the way, regarding your querry on `Snow ploughs on DHR', I found
out
from a friend writing a book on DHR that they were indeed used for the
first
time(perhaps the last as well!) in India on the DHR near Ghoom.

Harsh

From: Jayant S <>

Subject: Re: DHR QUERY

Date: 04 Feb 1999 23:41:06 -0500



> To me it seems that if the freight traffic was returned to
> the railway....
Correct: in fact I believe a well-managed rephasing of freight
traffic would not only rescue the DHR, but would also arrest
some of the considerable decline in the Darjeeling environment
caused by the rampant increase in the number of road vehicles.
The extra four hours or so may not matter too much. However,
a freight operation would still need to address the end-of-route
cargo handling. The old goods shed in Darjeeling town (now only
a ropeway terminal) would not suffice as the area around it
is far too congested. A new goods terminal would need to be
built somewhere between Ghoom and DJ, and would need to
address the freight traffic needs of the town for several
successive decades. Hmmm........

Are there any commercially viable narrow-gauge mountain
freight operations anywhere in the world ?

There was a study carried out by the North Bengal University
regarding the possibility of freight movement on the DHR.
Don't know what they came up with: will try to find out.


--
Jayant S : ID Studio : Tata Technologies India Limited
Telco Premises : Pimpri : PUNE : 411 018 : INDIA
TEL 91(20)702534 : FAX 91(20)773191
--

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Why change the loco at MMR ?

Date: 05 Feb 1999 08:59:13 -0500


> Great pictures! Covers quite a few locos. Big enough to be
effectively
> used as wallpapers for my desktop. Seems to me that Manmad is a
decent
> station for loco-spotting - WDM2, WAP1, WCAM3, ... The WCAM3 that you
> captured must have been waiting for the Manmad-Kurla Exp. right?

I have this at the back of my head for a long time. Since the Pachawati
and MMR CLAT
powers go to MMR, why not send the WCAM 3 powers till Bhusawal ? Maybe
not right now,
the Mumbai division has only 60 of WCAM 3s. But when they exceed 100 in
a while, maybe
we can do a 'BRC' at Bhusawal and send the dual voltage powers right
till Bhusawal
like the WR dual voltage powers go to atleast Vadodara before changing.
Thus the stop
at Igatpuri can be a 2 minute affair with the OHE changing voltage and
the staff
changing from Mumbai division to Bhusawal division, the WCAM 3 just
switching to the
AC panto and the train taking off once more. Yes, the bankers must be
uncoupled and
they must withdraw into the DC wiring territory before the AC supply is
switched on.
Or the bankers can drop their pantos and wait, once the train takes off
on the AC
supply, the OHE can revert back to DC and the bankers can come alive
once more, after
all the Bankers do not have any timing to be kept. All this will take
much lesser time
than the mandatory 20 minutes that any train out of Mumbai takes at
Igatpuri due to
change of traction. I am sure that the Pachawati and CLAT - MMR must be
having a
really fast stop at IGP.

The stop at Lonavala is speeded up now a days, the train climbs the
ghats, enters the
Lonavala station, comes to a stop, a 'khalasi' gets in between the
banker and the last
coach, closes the angle cocks and uncouples the hoses, the bankers inch
slightly
forward to relieve the stress on the coupler. The coupler is undone in
a few tens of
seconds, overseen by a assistant station master (ASM) with a walkie
talkie, he
confirms that the bankers are detached and the LNL starter signal goes
yellow. This
process takes less five minutes, and is possible due to the air brakes
and the
wireless communication. The driver too is monitoring the conversation on
his walkie
talkie and is prepared to start the train whenever the signal is given.

> Besides the Sachkhand Exp. which of the following trains change locos.
at
> Manmad - Azad Hind, Gyan Ganga, Jhelum, Goa, Swarnajayanti,
Maharashtra,
> ADI-Bangalore? Why does the Karnataka Exp. not change locos. at
Manmad?
> Why have the diesel locos. go all the way to Itarsi and not utilize
electric
> traction between Manmad and Itarsi?

All the trains mentioned turn towards either Daund or towards
Aurangabad. The precise
reason why the KK uses diesels till Itarsi is a mystery to me. The SUR
division staff
who work these powers between Raichur( or Wadi) till Manmad are also not
sure. The
recent change is the ET powers heading the KK rather than the KJM powers
(blue rake
with matching dark blue and black powers). Other change I can see is
that the locos
are no longer refuelled at DD. Given the range of the WDM2, I suppose a
fully filled
WDM 2 could work ET - SBC distance without refuelling, or maybe one
refuelling stop at
Guntakal. We need to have a report from someone who has travelled on the
KK in the pre
Itarsi days. Did the KJM power go all the way to NDLS in those days? Has
Sridhar done
the SBC - MMR (read Shirdi ?) run before ?

> A general question - what factors govern the decision to have a loco.
> changeover for a particular train at a particular station? Let's take
> Manmad as an example since it does have it's own shed.

A subset of this question - does MMR have a (trip) shed at all ? I think
the AC and
Diesel powers stand out in the open, like the picture of the BRC WAP 1
standing on an
'all weather' inspection pit in Sridhar's electric loco page. Igatpuri
however has
proper trip sheds for both AC and DC powers. This necessitates the
posting of enough
technical manpower who can maintain the locos as they wait. I saw
atleast 10 -12 WR &
CR powers standing out on the rails at Vasai to haul some BSR train.

Apurva

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: New Shatabdi

Date: 05 Feb 1999 11:32:23 -0500


Dear Porus,
 
Thanks for the great observations ... just adding some of my observations and comments ...

>> Appu you also wrote that the erstwhile Minar Express used to
>> run non stop between Poona Jn. and Sholapur, but the present Dadar Madras
>> Chennai Exp (1063) runs non stop.  IT skips daund, Kurduwadi.  Appu
>> correct me if I am wrong. 
>
>You are correct.  The Dadar-Chennai Exp. is the only train to run non-stop
>between Pune and Solapur in both the directions.  The Dn. Konark does this
>as well.
>

The Chennai Express (as it was known when Chennai was known as Madras) in early days (1990-1995) ran 5 days a week (became a daily in 1993) at 1950 ex Dadar it was termed the Chennai Super Express, but failed to keep time miserably. Thus the super tag associated with it became redundant. Of course it was the fastest train introduced between Dadar and Chennai at the time. Thus this train also had no halts between Pune and Solapur. But then did the then Netravati Superfast which also did not have halts between Pune and Solapur. There was a new train - Kurla Bangalore also introduced as a superfast and virtually ran on the heels of the Hussainsagar (withhout any halts) till all the trains were "slowed down" and official halts provided for.

>> Now I remember that in 1975 when I travelled to Madras I travelled by the
>> Madras Janata Express, I don't recollect the no of this train
>> but if I am not mistaken it was 13dn/14up and used to be the best train to go to
>> Madras as it used to take lesser time than the DAdar Madras Express (11dn)
>
>Not true.  As far as I can remember, the Madras Janata Exp. used to be about
>3 hrs. slower than the Dadar-Madras Exp.  I have traveled on this train once
>from Madras to Dadar (summer of 1974) and it was steam-hauled between Madras
>and Pune, whereas the Dadar-Madras Exp. was diesel-hauled (blue WDM2).
>
>> are run my SR, and we dont even feel like entering the coaches) we do
>> neeed a fully A/c train to STart from V.T. ( I hate this CSTM and hope the
>> name is changed) to Madras covering the distance in about 22hrs.
>
>Right again.  If not a fully A/c train, we atleast need a superfast train
>between Mumbai and Chennai.  Maybe, this'll happen once the Daund-Ganagpur
>Rd. section gets doubled.
>
>> Why was  the Minar Express scrapped and this Konark started.  If at all
>> they wanted theY could have changed the timing as the Konark also goes to
>> Secunderabad and Minar also used to go to Bhubaneshwar. 
>> Can't figure out the thinking of the Mandarins in CR. 
>
>The Minar and the Konark used to share rakes with just a name change at
>Secunderabad.  About 3-4 coaches were meant for
>Mumbai-Rajahmundry/Bhubaneswar passengers.  A couple of coaches used to get
>attached/detached at Pune.  Then the Minar Exp. was renamed as the
>Hussainsagar Exp. (what is wrong with the name 'Minar'?) and restricted
>between Mumbai CST and Hyderabad.  The Konark Exp. was extended till Mumbai
>CST with change in timings.

 
Actually there is a sequence to the events. Originally, and till about 1993 there was The Minar which ran between Bombay VT and Secunderabad. The Minar was a superfast - 2101/2102. There was a sharing of rake between this train and the then Konark which was a superfast in its own right 2119/2120. There was only a 25 minute gap for the board and name change to take effect. Of course from Mumbai there was some quota earmarked for beyond Secunderabad. In Pune, a few coaches were attached marked as "Pune-Waltair". The Minar used to depart at 2155 from Bombay VT.
 
However, this being the most prestigious train between Bombay and the Twin Cities, and with diluted capacity to serve the requirements of the Twin Cities of Hyderabad, a new train was introduced namely the "Hussainsagar Express" which was to run at 2310 from Bombay VT twice a week, and was to enhance capacity between Mumbai and the Twin Cities.
 
Further increase in capacity and rationalisation of the trains led to the changes that are today: The Hussainsagar was made a daily train, and the Konark extended to run between Bombay and Bhubaneshwar, and thus the Minar between Bombay and Secunderabad was rechristened the Konark. Thus an entirely new train to serve requirements of Bombay and Pune to beyond Secunderabad came into being, and thus the sectional coaches from Pune to Waltair were discontinued also. 
 
The timings of the Konark and Hussainsagar were interchanged to suit the respective requirements. Thus the Hussainsagar ran according to the slot of the Minar and the Konark to the slot of the recently introduced Hussainsagar. Later in due course, the Konark could not maintain its timings due to various reasons and thus had to be further rationalised. The departure was set for 1120am ex Bombay VT. it was then brought forward to its current time of 1500 hrs ex Mumbai CST.   

>> The Madgaon Shatabdi is coming in this Budget, this is inside info.  Will
>> start from V.T. in the morning at 5.35 and will reach Madgaon at 1.15   
>> return will start at 2.45 and will arrive at 10.35 p.m.  With halts at
>> DAdar Ratnagiri and Madgaon.  I may be plus minus 1/2 an hour
>> on timings. So Happy Journey to all the enthusiastic rail fans to Goa.
>>
>Looks like they decided to have a Madgaon superfast from Mumbai CST after
>all.  What about the Panvel-Madgaon superfast exp.  Is the Shatabdi going to
>take the place of this train?  How come the Shatabdi doesn't have a halt at
>Panvel to serve New Mumbaikers?

 
The Mumbai - Madgaon Triweekly Special is a case in point. It does not have a halt at Dadar, but has halts at Thane and Panvel. Panvel will be a halt in view of the overall position that Panvel will play in the future.

>I am not too pleased with the Dadar halt.  Dadar is too close to Mumbai CST
>for warranting a Shatabdi halt.  They have already messed around with the
>Pune Shatabdi.  Look at Bhopal Shatabdi or the Shatabdis from
>Kalka/Chandigarh/Amritsar.  No halts at Nizamuddin or Subzi Mandi.

 
I feel that the Dadar and Lonavala Halts to the Pune Shatabdi are justified. Nizamuddin has been developed as another terminal for NR trains. Dadar however for Mumbai is much more - Dadar represents the centre of Mumbai, accessible from all ends by the western or central systems, and by road too. Thus this needs to be taken into consideration. Pune is a commuting distance and regular tarvellers who use Shatabdi all board from Dadar, which can save upto 45 minutes to an hour in ones morning.
 
Example Pune Shatabdi departs ex Mumbai CST at 0640 and Dadar at 0653. To get to dadar from say Ghatkopar, one would spend 20 minutes in a slow local. Thus one will have to catch a local at 0620-0625 to reach with a certain comfort zone. By contrast, from Ghatkopar to CSTM would take 41 minutes in a slow local, plus a longer time to change over from the Suburban terminal to the Main Line Terminal. One would have to catch the local at 0540-0545 to reach. Getting to CSTM by road is more unpredictable because of road conditions and unpredicted traffic (I've not forgotten that our discussion is a early Morning Train !!! ) For a regular traveller this would be too much. Thus the importance of Dadar is unique and finds no parallel anywhere else in India. 
In contrast, Mumbai Central is much closer to Dadar and well connected by locals from Dadar (travel time 8-10min by slow train), and too close to warrant a halt for some of the faster train.
     
What really needs to be looked into here is the running time which must be cut more effectively

From: Sridhar Shankar <>

Subject: Re: Why change the loco at MMR ?

Date: 05 Feb 1999 11:36:12 -0500


I did not see a trip shed of any kind in Manmad. All the locos were out
in
the open. There were a couple of Pune WDM2s around (for the Nanded type
runs I suppose). The only facility Manmad offers is Fuel. A freight
train
with a pair of WDM2B locos (Kazipet) showed up late in the evening (it
was
dark by then) and took in fuel. I asked the driver the mileage these
locos
delivered and his answer was that Manmad to Bhusaval would consume about
1000 liters. I am not sure if this was speculation on his part. With a
full tank of fuel (5K liters)that would give a range of ~1200 KM. So the
KK would have to be fueled at some point in the route? Any one with a
better estimate on the mileage provided by the WDM2?

At present both the KKs (north bound and south bound) reach Manmad about
the same time (if on schedule). If the south bound were to get there a
few
hours after the north bound, KJM power could be effectively utilized
with
out a long lay over. My understanding is that currently, the north
bound
train is usually on time and the south bound always a couple of hours
late.

I have not done this journey before but will hopefully do this again
this
summer.

>
> All the trains mentioned turn towards either Daund or towards
Aurangabad. The precise
> reason why the KK uses diesels till Itarsi is a mystery to me. The SUR
division staff
> who work these powers between Raichur( or Wadi) till Manmad are also
not sure. The
> recent change is the ET powers heading the KK rather than the KJM
powers (blue rake
> with matching dark blue and black powers). Other change I can see is
that the locos
> are no longer refuelled at DD. Given the range of the WDM2, I suppose
a fully filled
> WDM 2 could work ET - SBC distance without refuelling, or maybe one
refuelling stop at
> Guntakal. We need to have a report from someone who has travelled on
the KK in the pre
> Itarsi days. Did the KJM power go all the way to NDLS in those days?
Has Sridhar done
> the SBC - MMR (read Shirdi ?) run before ?
>
> > A general question - what factors govern the decision to have a
loco.
> > changeover for a particular train at a particular station? Let's
take
> > Manmad as an example since it does have it's own shed.
>
> A subset of this question - does MMR have a (trip) shed at all ? I
think the AC and
> Diesel powers stand out in the open, like the picture of the BRC WAP 1
standing on an
> 'all weather' inspection pit in Sridhar's electric loco page. Igatpuri
however has
> proper trip sheds for both AC and DC powers. This necessitates the
posting of enough
> technical manpower who can maintain the locos as they wait. I saw
atleast 10 -12 WR &
> CR powers standing out on the rails at Vasai to haul some BSR train.
>
> Apurva
>
>
>

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Why change the loco at MMR ?

Date: 05 Feb 1999 12:05:05 -0500


> I have this at the back of my head for a long time. Since
> the Pachawati and MMR CLAT
> powers go to MMR, why not send the WCAM 3 powers till
> Bhusawal ? Maybe not right now,
> the Mumbai division has only 60 of WCAM 3s. But when they
> exceed 100 in a while, maybe
> we can do a 'BRC' at Bhusawal and send the dual voltage

I had broached this subject a while back. Reduction in time would be
5-10
mts. for trains beyond Bhusaval since the loco changeover time would be
transfered from Igatpuri to Bhusaval. Reduction at Igatpuri - 20/15
mts. to
5 mts. Increase at Bhusaval - 10 mts. to 15/20 mts. Bhusaval may be a
better changeover spot than Igatpuri since it is a divisional HQ and may
have superior accommodations for crew members.


> change of traction. I am sure that the Pachawati and CLAT -
> MMR must be having a
> really fast stop at IGP.

5 mts. in both the directions.


>
> The stop at Lonavala is speeded up now a days, the train
> climbs the ghats, enters the
..
..
..
> walkie talkie, he
> confirms that the bankers are detached and the LNL starter
> signal goes yellow. This
> process takes less five minutes, and is possible due to the

Have to double check but the CR working TT indicates that the Lonavala
halt
is 3 mts. for all trains, up or down. Has this been speeded-up further?

>
> > A general question - what factors govern the decision to
> have a loco.
> > changeover for a particular train at a particular station?
> Let's take
> > Manmad as an example since it does have it's own shed.
^^^^^^^^^

A typo. Manmad does not have a loco shed.

Vijay

From: Dr. K.J. Walker & Mrs. M.E, Heath <>

Subject: Re: DHR QUERY

Date: 05 Feb 1999 15:33:52 -0500


Dear Harsh,
One of my scholarly specialisations is the field of policy
analysis, a
sub-discipline of what is called political "science", more in hope than
fact. One reasonably well-attested fact is that politicians,
bureaucrats,
and others often respond to unpalatable or unworkable situations by what
we
call "denial". This amounts to a refusal to acknowledge the facts of a
case, and an anxiety to blame someone or something else -- which we call
"displacement".
The GSI's blaming of the DHR for the landslips at Paghlajhora
appears
to be a classic example of both phenomena. There is road lobby pressure
to
get rid of the railway: OK, let's blame the line for the landslips, and
get
rid of it. Never mind that it's been there for 118 years WITHOUT causing
landslides, and their sudden emergence demands a better explanation.
Maybe
it will gain time until the next disaster, by which time these policies'
perpetrators will be pensioned off and untouchable.
Obviously, if there are much worse landslides now than ever
before,
it must be due to NEW factors, not old. And the new factors are not hard
to
find. One has already been mentioned: the impact of continual road
traffic
on a road which is operating close to capacity. The other is
deforestation.
Trees help to bind soil and prevent erosion; all vegetation, trees
included,
tends to retain moisture, prevent run-off, and retard erosion and
consequent
landslips. Even geologists know this: they are taught it in first year.
A
third factor may be climatic change: this year's monsoons have been the
worst for many decades. But they could have done far less damage were it
not
for deforestation.
The fact is that deforestation in the Paglajhora vicinity is
severe:
my own photographs, taken over the period 1978-1997, show this with
utter
clarity. The revetment works to hold up the Cart Road have grown
increasingly massive.
But both the power of the road lobby, and the impact of the local
population on deforestation, are political hot potatoes, and very
difficult
to tackle. Both would require careful and quiet diplomacy, which is in
short
supply, and a committment of resources and political will both to better
transport systems and to better social welfare, housing, and resource
availability (specifically, non-wood fuels) for the local population.
Difficult at best, a quagmire at worst. Far better to blame a chota
railway
in decline.
There are solutions, but they will require the Government of
India,
the Bengal government, and the Ghorka Hill Council to work closely
together.
The most urgent issues are stopping residential encroachment on the Cart
Road ("ribbon development") and an urgent fuel conversion programme to
virtually eliminate pressure on the forests. Even then, if will be many
years before the results will be felt and fully appreciated.
As an enthusiast for the DHR, which is simply one of the world's
top
two or three best train rides, I hope the right moves are made soon.
Best wishes
Ken Walker

-----Original Message-----
From: Harsh Vardhan <champa@del3.email
To: sank@telco.email <sank@telco.email Anne Ogborn
<anniepoo@netmagic.email IR List <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, 5 February 1999 5:20
Subject: Re: DHR QUERY


>
>>> Harsh, how is it they're claiming the train is damaging the cart
road?
>
>
>I wish I was as knowledgeable as these chaps to answer that but what
the
>report says is briefly given below.
>
>
>"Axe the toy train, say reports of Geological Survey of India. The toy
train
>service between Siliguri and Darjeeling may soon come to a halt
provided
the
>Geological Survey of India has its way. The suggesetion to do away with
the
>train service is among GSI's several remedial measures to save hill
roads
>from subsidence. Recommending closure of the toy train service, the
report
>said higher slopes should be kept free to allow normal flow of the
streams.
>Since existing rail tracks crossed through the slopes, many streams
had
>changed courses damaging roads to a considerable extent."
>
>
>To a normal person it would seem that the same holds true for the cart
road
>also which is much hugging the track. But it appears that the HCR is a
holy
>cow and it would be sacrilege to say anything against it so why not
pick on
>the poor train which nobody seems to bother about.
>
>The train has been in existence for over a hundred years and nothing
much
>has changed since the begining with a maximum of 3 trains a day in each
>direction at the most. But the HCR was never built with motor transport
in
>mind. While travelling on the DHR on eight occasions in the past
fifteen
>years, I have always noticed that it is invariably the road which gets
most
>affected by the moonsoons and subsides, while the track mostly remains
>virtually unaffected. Surely it is the road traffic that loosens the
>foundations to such an extent that they become vulnerable to the
monsoon,
>which washes it down the mountainside and drags the railway with it. To
me
>it seems that if the freight traffic was returned to the railway, the
axle
>load would be spread over a much wider base and prevent the continual
>pounding of the road. Would the additional four hour taken by railway
for
>the goods to travel make any impact on the business of Darjeeling? One
also
>has to take into considerations the ecological damage caused by the
diesel
>spewing vehicles travelling uphill.
>
>And by the way, regarding your querry on `Snow ploughs on DHR', I found
out
>from a friend writing a book on DHR that they were indeed used for the
first
>time(perhaps the last as well!) in India on the DHR near Ghoom.
>
>Harsh
>

From: Krishnan Anand <>

Subject: Why change the loco at XXXXXXXX ! Generalised !

Date: 05 Feb 1999 20:36:43 -0500


Hi all,
I have with me a very similar type of situation that Sridhar,
Vijay and Apurva have been discussing on why Loco changes are effected
at an inappropriate station like Manmad. In the SR we have ET till
Palghat(PGT) on the MAS-TVC-Kanyakumari trunk route. But almost all of
the trains including the TVC Raj(most cases) have a change-over at Erode

itself. Now logically speaking Erode has a Loco Shed.
But......but.....Palghat is a divisional head-quarters in SR and very
sure it has better(at least on paper) or as good a facility for running
staff than Erode. In fact the stretch between PGT and EKM is almost
fully energised except for 4-5km near EKM and is due to be completed by
March end. But the changeover is effected at Erode itself. But what is
very perplexing is that goods traffic till PGT are hauled by AC Locos
and the change over for them is at PGT to deisels.
Let me see if i could get more inputs on this arrangement in SR.

Kind Regards,
Anand.K


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Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Karthik Giddu <>

Subject: Change of Web site address

Date: 05 Feb 1999 20:54:28 -0500


Hi,
The website of Karthik Giddu containing Indian Railway Timetable,
Farelist
etc. is now available at <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gidduk">http://members.tripod.com/gidduk</A> (~ missing).
Now
the users can make use to the 'Search' option.

Awaiting ur for Feedbacks to serve u better.

Also, anyboby who has the new timetable for the reopened Chennai-
Madurai
BG please mail to the same to gidduk@bigfoot.email

Thanks,
Karthik

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Change of Web site address

Date: 06 Feb 1999 00:30:27 -0500


Great effort by Karthik, he mentions that the Goa express (now numbered
1779/80 ?) actually goes to Madgaon /Vasco. As far as I know this has
not
happened as yet, but I would do some urgent investigation on the
matter.
The change of the number means that the superfast status of the Goa
Express
has been stripped.

Apurva

Karthik Giddu wrote:

> Hi,
> The website of Karthik Giddu containing Indian Railway Timetable,
Farelist
> etc. is now available at <A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/gidduk">http://members.tripod.com/gidduk</A> (~ missing).
Now
> the users can make use to the 'Search' option.
>
> Awaiting ur for Feedbacks to serve u better.
>
> Also, anyboby who has the new timetable for the reopened Chennai-
Madurai
> BG please mail to the same to gidduk@bigfoot.email
>
> Thanks,
> Karthik

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Minar Vs Konark

Date: 06 Feb 1999 00:49:00 -0500


> Prior to Konark Exp starting from Mumbai, the 2101 (correct number
> ?) Minar Express used to reach SC and then be renamed as Konark to
> go further to BBS. I actually know someone who wanted to go from
> Pune to Cuttack. So he took the Minar till SC and then broke
> journey for a day to travel further to Cuttack on the next day's
> Konark. He reasoned that since the departure time of the Konark
> was so close to the arrival time of Minar at SC, there was a
> chance that he might actually miss the train. He found out first
> hand that the Minar rake is just renamed and sent further to BBS.
>
> Apurva
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Re: Why change the loco at MMR ?

Date: 06 Feb 1999 01:14:30 -0500


> The only facility Manmad offers is Fuel. A freight train
> with a pair of WDM2B locos (Kazipet) showed up late in the evening (it
was
> dark by then) and took in fuel. I asked the driver the mileage these
locos
> delivered and his answer was that Manmad to Bhusaval would consume
about
> 1000 liters. I am not sure if this was speculation on his part. With a
> full tank of fuel (5K liters)that would give a range of ~1200 KM. So
the
> KK would have to be fueled at some point in the route? Any one with a
> better estimate on the mileage provided by the WDM2?

The fuel consumption of a WDM 2 that I seem to recollect is is 25 liters
per Kms ! The fuel
tank is 5000 liters.

Apurva

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Indian Railway Yearbook

Date: 06 Feb 1999 04:44:55 -0500


Gang !

I get this direct mailer from time to time from the 'Railway Year
Book 1999" - the 17th edition. It is about collection of ads for
this issue - take a look at the contents and check out the address
at the bottom, they have email as well. Each copy costs Rs 290 in
India, Rs 40 extra for courier/ post. International price is $ 40.
These publishers also bring out something called 'Urban Railways'. I
have never seen these publications but this year I think I will. I
was not able to locate when the issue will be out, maybe a quick
email to them would help.

Railways Year Book is an indispensable statistical encyclopedia on
Indian Railways providing valuable single reference source about
Asia's largest railway system and its industry. A look at the
contents of the Year Book will show the range of its coverage.

Contents

Indian Railway - an overview
Product News
Indian Railway update
Indian Railway map
Indian Railways at a glance
Ministry of Railways
COFMOW
Chittaranjan Locomotive Works
Diesel Locomotive Works
Integral Coach Factory
Rail Coach Factory
Metro Project, Mumbai
Metro Railway, Calcutta
DMRC, Delhi
RITES
Konkan Railway
CONCOR
Container Corpn. of India Ltd.

Zonal Railways
Central Railway
Eastern Railway
Northern Railway
North Eastern Railway
Northeast Frontier Railways
Southern Railway
South Eastern Railway
Western Railway

Trade Directory

Locomotive & Rolling Stock
Locomotive Stock Components Components
Track Material and Maintenance Equipment
Signaling and Telecommunication Equipment
Electrification Equipment
Miscellaneous
Advertiser's Index


Address: Railways Year Book, 40/162, Lower Ground Floor,
Chittaranjan Park, New Delhi 110 019. tel: 91-11- 6239796, 6284111,
6223392 Fax: 91-11-6283566, 6451921, email:
tranzlog@del3.email

Apurva

From: Joydeep Dutta <>

Subject: Re: Delhi or Doom?

Date: 06 Feb 1999 05:06:32 -0500


Dear Shankar
I am joydeep and I want you tell you that Ghani Khan had nothing to
with Gour Express. I had travelled by Gour express a year before Gani
became the railway minister. It used run between Malda Town and Sealdah
and not to Howrah as you say. It was thrice a week and gani only made it

daily. Till the late eigthies mind you it was steam hauled. Till now it
does Sealdah - malda town 3153/3154. It is unfortunate that you feel
Malda Town as unfortunate but since you are a railbuff let me tell you
that its important railway place and the juncture of NFR and ER.
regards
Joydeep


>From irfca-request@cs.email Tue Jan 26 11:55:46 1999
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>Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:55:35 +0400
>From: Shankar <shankie@emirates.email
>Subject: Re: Delhi or Doom?
>To: "Balasubramanian, Vijay" <vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email
>Cc: irfca@cs.email
>Reply-to: shankie@emirates.email
>Message-id: <36AE0D4C.52E@emirates.email
>MIME-version: 1.0
>X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I)
>Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
>Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
>References:
<99805B014A26D211BC3100A0C9B72CB890DA62@exchange-va.email
>
>Hello,
>I tend to agree with Harsh.
> I think we are making much ado about nothing.
>Of course, I'm from the South myself, and the neglect of the South by
>the railways cannot by any means be condoned.
>But I think Delhi's seemingly disproportionate share of railway
>facilities has more to do with the Govt's policy of having all parts of
>the country connected to the capital city by fast trains.
>With the seat of Govt being situated there, there is no dearth of
higher
>ups from all walks of life traveling to and from Delhi.
>The same seems to hold good even with State Transport buses: Bombay
>(state capital of Maharashtra) for instance is connected by ST bus to
>even some of the most obscure of villages. some routes carry luxury
>buses too.
>Of course, the vast number of freeloaders: MPs, MLAs and other assorted
>underlings traveling on free passes must be responsible for the
>disproportionately large number ac and other luxurious accommodation of
>Delhi trains. Not to mention civil servants and their families
traveling
>home annually availing of the annual Leave TRravel Allowance. Plus
>foreign tourists.
>Plus company executives.And so on and so forth.
>Harm per se was done by erstwhile railway ministers by other means,
most
>of them laughably absurd: an Olympic style sports stadium in the
>godforsaken Malda Town plus making Malda Town a terminus for the Gour
>Express from Howrah (Ghani Khan Choudhury), a Bangalore-Hubli Shatabdi
>(Ha!)(now discontinued) (Jaffer Sherief) etc.
>I don't think any of the railway ministers really cared for Delhi
>itself: look at the pitiable state of its ring railway, the
>overstretched facilities of New Delhi station, the much touted metro
>hanging fire for so many years now, etc.etc.etc.
>Best regards.
>Shankar.
>
>(PS: My profound apologies on the length of this mail!)(Is that adding
>insult to injury?)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Harsh Vardhan [mailto:champa@del3.email
>> Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 6:20 AM
>> To: Indian Railway Fan Club Association
>> Subject: Delhi or Doom?
>>
>> PLEASE ! Can we put a stop to all those cribbings about Delhi.
>>
>> Delhi is not the capital of Pakistan or is it !?
>>
>> Delhites never insisted that it should be the capital.
>>
>> As far as the memory could be stretched, railways never had a Delhite
>> minister so their decisions cannot be attributed to their love for
Delhi.
>>
>> Almost all these ministers did non-renumerative development work in
their
>> constituencies at the cost of railways and over the last fifty years
and
>> that has covered the entire country more or less(except the
north-east
>> perhaps). Nobody seems to ask any questions about the Banglore-Hubli
>> Shatabdi, the facelift of Pune station or why all trains stop at
Gwalior or
>> about the sudden emergence of Hajipur on the railway map.
>>
>> PERIOD.
>>
>>
>>


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From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: New Shatabdi

Date: 07 Feb 1999 11:30:49 -0500


Folks,
This news comes as a shock against what I had speculated earlier ...
And I'd agree with you all that those Rail Guys don't realise what the're doing ...
 
Already there is the Satavahana Express which is a superfast running between SC and BZA
2714 SC d 1645 BZA a 2200
2713 BZA d 0600 SC a 1115.
THE NEW SHATABDI CLEARLY SEEMS TO BE A POLITICAL TRAIN as the timings of this train are close to the Satavahana Express. In addition, the Golconda Express runs between Guntur d 0530 via BZA d 0640 to SC a 1345. Also the Palnad Express runs at this time between Guntur d 0525 via Nadikude and SC a 1030. Also the Falaknuma runs at this time Guntur d 0615 SC a 1100. Since so many trains ply in either direction at the times appointed for the Shatabdi, the introduction seems meaningless. This would turn out to be similar to the Pune Mumbai Shatabdi Express which was introduced in addition to the existing Deccan Queen and Pragati Express, despite the Pragati's underutilisation at the time.  
 
Rajan

 
>> Today's news article in The Hindu has given more details on
>> this. This
>> train would run from Feb 16th onwards. Details on the route are not
>> given but seeing the running time i guess it would be thru Guntur and
>> not the KZJ route to Vijayawada. Now for the most interesting
>> part. The
>> timing for this train. Starts at Rajamundry at 4.00 am in the morning
>> and reaches Sec'bad at 11.30 am. Return direction departure
>> is at 5.50
>> p.m at Sec'bad and reaches Rajamundry at 1.20 am. Howzzat ??.
>> So a total running time of 7-1/2 hours . I guess this should be
>> rechristened as Noctural Express than Shatabdi express !!!!!
>>
>
>IMHO, the timings have been deliberately designed to give a full 6 hrs. of
>daylight time at Secunderabad with convenient arrival/departure times at
>Guntur and Vijayawada.  Looks like the train is, primarily, going to used by
>folks working in and around Secunderabad and commuting from
>Guntur/Vijayawada.  One can visualize this as an extension of a
>Secunderabad-Vijayawada Shatabdi Exp. to Rajahmundry to maximally utilize
>the rake and provide a connection to Rajahmundry as well.   Again, a regular
>superfast train could have done the job, so folks have to unnecessarily pay
>higher fares.
>
>I was thinking about the viability of extending the Mumbai-Pune Shatabdi
>Exp. to Solapur, atleast, on some days of the week.  Is there enough traffic
>from Solapur to justify such an extension?  The journey could be covered in
>7 hrs. 15 mts. - so a daytime Shatabdi service is possible.
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Nitish on a live steamer

Date: 07 Feb 1999 21:59:14 -0500


Gang !

Sunday's Indian Express show the railway minister Nitish Kumar on a
live steamer. The boiler is about 6- 8 feet long and the heavy bolts
holding the end of the boiler can be seen along with the horizontal
whistle. Can anyone identify the location of this live steamer/
garden railway ? The NRM perhaps ?

Apurva

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: DHR QUERY

Date: 08 Feb 1999 05:00:32 -0500



Dear Ken,

> One of my scholarly specialisations is the field of policy
analysis, a
>sub-discipline of what is called political "science", more in hope than
>fact. One reasonably well-attested fact is that politicians,
bureaucrats,
>and others often respond to unpalatable or unworkable situations by
what we
>call "denial". This amounts to a refusal to acknowledge the facts of a
>case, and an anxiety to blame someone or something else -- which we
call
>"displacement".
> The GSI's blaming of the DHR for the landslips at Paghlajhora
appears
>to be a classic example of both phenomena

I could'nt but agree with you more - and Iam glad that there is some
scientific research done on what we would generally pass as bureaucratic
absurdity and insensivity. Now it certainly does make more sense of why
they
do if not of how they come upto it.

>Obviously, if there are much worse landslides now than ever before,
>it must be due to NEW factors, not old. And the new factors are not
hard to
>find. One has already been mentioned: the impact of continual road
traffic
>on a road which is operating close to capacity. The other is
deforestation.
>Trees help to bind soil and prevent erosion; all vegetation, trees
included,
>tends to retain moisture, prevent run-off, and retard erosion and
consequent
>landslips. Even geologists know this: they are taught it in first year.
A
>third factor may be climatic change: this year's monsoons have been the
>worst for many decades. But they could have done far less damage were
it
not
>for deforestation.

The GSI reports does mention the deforestation and its impact also but
since
that is an ailment which everyone knows about but want to do a little
for,
it was their browbeating the DHR will caught everyone's notice. Alas the
media too has a populistic mindset.


> The fact is that deforestation in the Paglajhora vicinity is
severe:
>my own photographs, taken over the period 1978-1997, show this with
utter
>clarity. The revetment works to hold up the Cart Road have grown
>increasingly massive.
> But both the power of the road lobby, and the impact of the
local
>population on deforestation, are political hot potatoes, and very
difficult
>to tackle. Both would require careful and quiet diplomacy, which is in
short
>supply, and a committment of resources and political will both to
better
>transport systems and to better social welfare, housing, and resource
>availability (specifically, non-wood fuels) for the local population.
>Difficult at best, a quagmire at worst. Far better to blame a chota
railway
>in decline.

I think that the only way we can tackle it is by promoting awareness
about
the DHR how important it is for all of in the past, present and future
and
therefore must be saved at all costs.
If you have taken any slides in the earlier days when you say the
vegetation
was still alive at Paglajhora, you could send me a copy which can be
used
for our presentations to the railway/tourism ministry. I will bear all
the
costs. Alternatively I can send you the latest ones taken in Dec 1998
which
show this year's particularly severe damage.

We must also do our bit to lobby with UNESCO for the WHS title for the
DHR
which when it comes would automatically put pressure on the IR and
Indian
Government to maintain the line in good shape.

Cheers for the DHR.

Harsh

From: Dipl.-Ing. Nikolaus Sbarounis <>

Subject: Re: DHR QUERY

Date: 08 Feb 1999 07:41:57 -0500


Hello everybody,
the DHR case is a typical example of a well-known situation, where a
traditional local railway faces a destiny it doesn't deserve. Many
mountainous narrow gauge lines in Europe and America have gone through
this
in the past, with the following possible results:
1) Closure
2) Modernization and survival as a contemporary, economical and
environmentally friendly means of transport
3) Transformation into a purely tourist/museum operation with
little, if
any, satisfaction of real transport demand
I'm convinced that very few closures of such networks were really
inevitable. It was mostly a perverse misconception of "modernisation",
carefully elaborated by the automobile lobby propaganda, that misguided
the
citizens and authorities into abandoning numerous promising local
railways
with a potential for development all over the capitalist world.
Some countries, or specific railways, were able to escape this fate by
cleverly adapting to the modern needs, managing to locate and grab the
market potential, which their services could attract. It would be a pity
to
see some of the areas hitherto untouched by the closure menace of the
'50s -
'70s to succumb to a new wave of anti-rail attacks, triggered by the
unfavourable political developments of the last decade. There is already
an
alarming number of secondary railway abandonments in the former
socialist
countries (not all of them are attributable to an anti-rail policy,
though;
the economic collapse in the early '90's caused such spectacular drops
in
traffic, that it became more feasible to use road transport instead of
maintaining a whole rail system).
How will the Darjeeling Himalayan Railway avoid this fate? Let's look at
the
experience of equivalent operations, which survived in a capitalist
environment.
An important example is Switzerland, where very few local lines have
ever
been closed. Do they look like out-of-place museum relics of the past?
Hell,
no! They perfectly fit into the modern environment, satisfying the needs
for
local passenger and freight transport, although they were no better
than
equivalent lines abroad, which have long vanished. And all this in a
country, whose real national anthem is the sound of the cash register!
Another way is the preservation of the DHR almost exclusively as a
museum
operation. Not only shortlines, but also longer N.G. mountain systems,
like
the D&RGW in Colorado have been able to survive as such. The DHR's World
Heritage status might help it to ensure a sufficient international
subsidy.
It will never be short of customers.
The main question is if the DHR's physical features allow it to fulfill
any
actual transport needs. It does have some unfavourable geometric
characteristisc, like sharp curves, steep grades and limited loading
gauge,
but so does the adjacent road. As far as motive power is concerned, I
don't
think that steam is necessarily an anachronism, but the present locos
don't
seem fit to cope with all transport needs. Since steam is important for
the
line's image, I would consider moderization of most existing engines, as
well as the creation of an entirely new (maybe articulated compound?)
class
for heavy mixed-traffic use, retaining some original examples for
lighter
work and special uses.
However, if demand exists for some light passenger workings during the
day,
I would suggest the introduction of railbuses. Even electrification
might be
an option, if there is mid-term potential traffic expected, that demands
anything heavier than single-headed steam trains. Remember that some
reserve
line capacity is always welcome.
It is true that the 2' gauge poses severe limits on a line's
performance. I
don't think there is a scope for regauging; if this alignement could
accommodate a wider gauge, they would have done it from the beginning.
One
important limitation is the unsuitability for carrying broad-gauge
wagons on
transporter trucks to avoid transshipment; however, it may be possible
to
interchange such traffic with the metre gauge at the DHR's southern
terminus. Some transporter truck trials would be necessary to certify
this
possibility (in terms of stability and loading gauge adequacy). Another
job
for the R&D folks!
Another limitation lies in the maximum permitted speed. Although fast
railcars on North African 2-footers have regularly run as fast as 60
km/h
(twice the maximum permitted elsewhere), it is doubtful if the
mountainous
alignement will permit even half of this speed. Judging from photos, the
road doesn't look like a much better performer.
Concerning other aspects of 2' common carriers, I think that very few
countries in the world have as much as hands-on experience as India (one
of
them is Poland, with some quite heavy freight work). If an effective way
is
found to satisfy the region's goods traffic requirements, I think that
the
line will be secure for many years to come.
The following links to worldwide narrow gauge freight operations are
meant
only as an introduction and a reference; a more extensive
technical-operational study will be required to propose feasible
practices
for the DHR:

A narrow gauge 2'6" network in Bohemia:
<A HREF="http://www.cdrail.cz/ENGLISH/ZAJIM/jhue.htm">http://www.cdrail.cz/ENGLISH/ZAJIM/jhue.htm</A>

Main page for Austrian narrow gauge:
<A HREF="http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WTippelt/homep_1.htm">http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WTippelt/homep_1.htm</A>

A succesful, partly steam-operated 2'6" freight line in the GDR:
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/wilderro/">http://members.aol.com/wilderro/</A>

A succesful, partly steam-operated mixed traffic 95-cm gauge network in
Sardinia:
<A HREF="http://www.isbiel.ch/~rrh/railways/sardegna.htm">http://www.isbiel.ch/~rrh/railways/sardegna.htm</A>

A high-density 785mm-gauge freight network in Upper Silesia (Kattowitz
area):
<A HREF="http://friko.onet.pl/ka/jakubh/index1.htm">http://friko.onet.pl/ka/jakubh/index1.htm</A>

Forestry and other 2' and 2'6" light railways in Hungary:
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3504/ungarn.html">http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3504/ungarn.html</A>

A heavy-duty 2'6" railway in Romania:
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3504/turda.html">http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Cabana/3504/turda.html</A>

industrial narrow gauge railways:
<A HREF="http://www.btinternet.com/~thomsk/index.html">http://www.btinternet.com/~thomsk/index.html</A>

An extensive mixed-traffic 891mm-gauge network in Sweden:
<A HREF="http://www.csd.uu.se/~rolandb/museum/VHVJ.html">http://www.csd.uu.se/~rolandb/museum/VHVJ.html</A>

NARROW-GAUGE mixed-traffic RAILROADS IN THE USSR:
<A HREF="http://pavel.physics.sunysb.edu/RR/USSR/narrow.html">http://pavel.physics.sunysb.edu/RR/USSR/narrow.html</A>

Notes:
1)For the purpose of this document, "narrow gauge" refers to sub-metric
gauge, 1 metre being the lower limit for sizable, heavy-duty
railroading,
whose practices cannot be directly applied to 2' gauge. 2)Political
comments
are limited to the extent necessary for emphasizing and pointing out the
potential dangers for the railway.




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From: Auroprem Kandaswami <>

Subject: Cabinet okays Rs 2529 crore rail projects

Date: 08 Feb 1999 08:52:14 -0500



Courtesy: BS


The Cabinet Committee on Economic
Affairs has cleared 12 railway projects
worth Rs 2,529 crore (Rs 100 crore
= Rs 1 billion). It has also entrusted the task
of constructing the
Qazigund-Baramulla line in Jammu and Kashmir to the public
sector Ircon International.

Talking to reporters on Thursday,
railway minister Nitish Kumar said that the first
phase of the J&K project will be
taken up in the current financial year itself. He
said projects cleared include six
new lines, four gauge conversion, one line
doubling and one electrification.

The projects cleared include a 271
km line connecting Banglore to Satyamangalam
in Tamil Nadu at a cost of Rs 640
crore. Another major project approved
yesterday is the 537 km gauge
conversion on the route between New Jalpaiguri in
West Bengal and New Bongaigaon in
Assam costing Rs 537 crore. The CCEA
has also approved a proposal on a
Rs 347 crore gauge conversion on the
Virudunagar-Quilon and
Tenkasi-Tiruchchendur in Kerala and Tamil Nadu.

The other new line projects which
has been approved are the 54 km Baramati to
Lonad line in Maharashtra costing
Rs 86 crore, the 116 km Bidar-Gulbarga line in
Karnataka costing Rs 229 crore, a
new line of 110 km connecting Agra with
Etawah in Uttar Pradesh at a cost
of Rs 108 crore.

A new line between Dumka and
Baidyanathdham stretching 67 kms and costing
Rs 115 crore has also been cleared.
Two other gauge conversion projects, the 84
km Katakhal-Bairabhi in Assam and
Mizoram costing Rs 80 crore and
Bankura-Damodar river railway line
stretching 96 kms and costing Rs 147 crore
have also been approved.

A line doubling project on the
Yesvantpur-Tumkur route in Karnataka costing Rs
61 crore for 64 kms and a
electrification project on the 135 km Ludhiana-Amritsar
line costing Rs 79 crore have been
approved by the CCEA.

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: New Shatabdi

Date: 08 Feb 1999 08:58:27 -0500


 
 
Actually there is a sequence to the events. Originally, and till about
1993
there was The Minar which ran between Bombay VT and Secunderabad. The
Minar
was a superfast - 2101/2102. There was a sharing of rake between this
train
and the then Konark which was a superfast in its own right 2119/2120.
There
was only a 25 minute gap for the board and name change to take effect.
Of
course from Mumbai there was some quota earmarked for beyond
Secunderabad.
In Pune, a few coaches were attached marked as "Pune-Waltair". The Minar
used to depart at 2155 from Bombay VT.
 
However, this being the most prestigious train between Bombay and the
Twin
Cities, and with diluted capacity to serve the requirements of the Twin
Cities of Hyderabad, a new train was introduced namely the "Hussainsagar
Express" which was to run at 2310 from Bombay VT twice a week, and was
to
enhance capacity between Mumbai and the Twin Cities.
 
Further increase in capacity and rationalisation of the trains led to
the
changes that are today: The Hussainsagar was made a daily train, and the
Konark extended to run between Bombay and Bhubaneshwar, and thus the
Minar
between Bombay and Secunderabad was rechristened the Konark. Thus an
entirely new train to serve requirements of Bombay and Pune to beyond
Secunderabad came into being, and thus the sectional coaches from Pune
to
Waltair were discontinued also. 
 
The timings of the Konark and Hussainsagar were interchanged to suit the
respective requirements. Thus the Hussainsagar ran according to the slot
of
the Minar and the Konark to the slot of the recently introduced
Hussainsagar. Later in due course, the Konark could not maintain its
timings
due to various reasons and thus had to be further rationalised. The
departure was set for 1120am ex Bombay VT. it was then brought forward
to
its current time of 1500 hrs ex Mumbai CST.   

Thanks for the info., Rajan.  I wasn't aware that the Hussainsagar and
Minar
co-existed for a while.

I feel that the Dadar and Lonavala Halts to the Pune Shatabdi are
justified.
Nizamuddin has been developed as another terminal for NR trains. Dadar
however for Mumbai is much more - Dadar represents the centre of Mumbai,
accessible from all ends by the western or central systems, and by road
too.
Thus this needs to be taken into consideration. Pune is a commuting
distance
and regular tarvellers who use Shatabdi all board from Dadar, which can
save
upto 45 minutes to an hour in ones morning. 
 

 
I agree that Dadar plays a more vital role in catering to Mumbai traffic
than Nizamuddin w.r.t. Delhi.

 
Example Pune Shatabdi departs ex Mumbai CST at 0640 and Dadar at 0653.
To
get to dadar from say Ghatkopar, one would spend 20 minutes in a slow
local.
Thus one will have to catch a local at 0620-0625 to reach with a certain
comfort zone. By contrast, from Ghatkopar to CSTM would take 41 minutes
in a
slow local, plus a longer time to change over from the Suburban terminal
to
the Main Line Terminal. One would have to catch the local at 0540-0545
to
reach. Getting to CSTM by road is more unpredictable because of road
conditions and unpredicted traffic (I've not forgotten that our
discussion
is a early Morning Train !!! ) For a regular traveller this would be too
much. Thus the importance of Dadar is unique and finds no parallel
anywhere
else in India. 
In contrast, Mumbai Central is much closer to Dadar and well connected
by
locals from Dadar (travel time 8-10min by slow train), and too close to
warrant a halt for some of the faster train.
      

 
Well illustrated!!  Due to absence of fast locals in the wee hours of
the
morning or late at night, trains that depart from Mumbai CST early
morning
could halt at Dadar to provide a more convenient connection.  On the
same
token, superfast trains departing later could skip Dadar.  This is
probably
the reason why the Dn. Pushpak, Deccan Queen and Minar skip Dadar.
 
 
Vijay

 

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