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From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: [Fwd: Locomotive Simulator Software

Date: 22 Jan 1999 09:05:01 -0500


Check out the links people, there is a 1st person loco simulator.

From: Dheeraj Sanghi <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues

Date: 22 Jan 1999 09:56:18 -0500



> I agree with you totally about re-introducing restrictions on SF
trains
> to make the travel of bona-fide, reserved superfast passengers more
> comfortable. But in India, as with all other laws, it is usually not
> the letter of the law that is lacking, but the enforcement -
> and I am not sure how one changes that without a social revolution.

Well, in most parts of te country, even now if the TT checks the ticket,
asks for the difference in fare and a small fine, people pay that. If
the difference is going to be higher, less people will even board the
coach. After all why do people not climb up in AC coaches. I am hopeful
that if Railways were to bring back the distance restrictions, disallow
season ticket holders, remove the unreserved coaches, and increase
the SF charges, the journey will once again become comfotable.


> Also I agree that the SF surcharge should be raised - but IR should be

> held accountable for providing superior service in terms of speed,
> facilities etc... to extract this SF surcharge. For example, they
> should raise the speed threshold of SF trains to 60 kmph avg speed

I agree that SF threshold should be raised. Other service in SF
trains could be a pantry car, even if the journey time is only 20
hours or so. Another restriction could be that number of stops
would not be more than one per 200 KM (or would not be more than
4 for trains travelling less than 800 KM) or some such number.

> such HARD REQUIREMENTS in terms of, say, speed will
> introduce an economic incentive for IR NOT to slow down fast
> trains - because if they do, and the train falls below the
> 75 or 60 kmph threshold, they directly lose corresponding
> revenue! The same applies for maintaining good services!

Well, if the SF charges are going to be Rs 10 for second class, and
Rs 20 for sleeper, then there is no eceonomic incentive to run SF
trains.
It may work for Rajdhanis/Shatabdis since their fares are much higher.

-dheeraj
--------------
Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638
(Off)
Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413
(Fax)
Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Delhi or Doom?

Date: 22 Jan 1999 11:33:05 -0500


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Harsh Vardhan [mailto:champa@del3.email
Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 6:20 AM
To: Indian Railway Fan Club Association
Subject: Delhi or Doom?


PLEASE ! Can we put a stop to all those cribbings about Delhi.
 
Delhi is not the capital of Pakistan or is it !?
 
Delhites never insisted that it should be the capital.
 
As far as the memory could be stretched, railways never had a Delhite
minister so their decisions cannot be attributed to their love for
Delhi.
 
Almost all these ministers did non-renumerative development work in
their
constituencies at the cost of railways and over the last fifty years and
that has covered the entire country more or less(except the north-east
perhaps). Nobody seems to ask any questions about the Banglore-Hubli
Shatabdi, the facelift of Pune station or why all trains stop at Gwalior
or
about the sudden emergence of Hajipur on the railway map.
 
PERIOD. 
 
 
Cool down, Harsh :-)  Nobody has anything personal against Delhi.   We
are
only commenting on the disproportionate number of services that Delhi
has
versus other big cities.  Frankly, I don't care if Delhi has all these
Rajdhanis and Shatabdis as long as other big cities such as Mumbai,
Calcutta, Chennai,..... get good ones as well.   If IR had a consistent
policy to fund projects / introduce quality services uniformly across
the
ENTIRE network, then railway ministers would not have to take it upon
themselves to better their constituency.  Incidents such as the
introduction
of Bangalore-Hubli Shatabdi or the elevated status of Gwalior are all
political stunts that, IMHO, counteract IR's favorable disposition
towards
Delhi.  Harsh, I would like your explanation on why Delhi has fantastic
services to Mumbai, Calcutta and Chennai, whereas trains between Mumbai,
Calcutta and Chennai cities are comparatively pathetic.  Since we know
that
the 'common' Delhite does not have a role in the decision-making
process,
WHO made these decisions and WHY?
 
  The gross neglect of the Mumbai-Chennai line is a classic example. 
Why is
the doubling of this trunk line being taken up AFTER Mr. Ram Naik comes
to
power?  B'coz if he doesn't do anything about it, chances are high that
it
will REMAIN neglected until someone from say Solapur or Guntakal becomes
the
rly. minister.
 
Vijay
 
P.S.  From a practical point of view, cribbing about IR's policies is a
waste of time unless we can do something to INFLUENCE their decisions.  
Before that we need to know HOW decisions regarding specific projects /
services are made.  Harsh (and others), can you give us some pointers?
 
 

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues (Feb. 1970 - Aug. 1972)

Date: 22 Jan 1999 12:19:32 -0500



> >-Manufacture of elec. locos was taken up at CLW in 1960.  First DC elec.
>> loco. was commissioned in Oct. 1961 - named 'Lokmanya' [a WCM5?].

>Yes, a WCM 5, the one with the square glass windows of the control cubicle, I
>will get serial number, the next time I see it.

It is WCM5 20083


Harsh

From: Steven Brown <>

Subject: Re: Locomotive Simulator Software , Signals Etc

Date: 22 Jan 1999 22:12:47 -0500


There is no standard US signalling practice, but I'll try to guess my
way
thru anyway:
Green: Maximum autorized (track or train) speed
Red: Could be absolute stop or stop and proceed (at no more than 20mph)
depending...
Anything red on top with green (or White) below is a diverging move
speed
limit would depend on the type of track switch (points) speed might be
15
30 or even 40.
Yellows: flashing yellow is less restrictive (40 mph) coming before sold
yellow (30) .But only on some Railroads.

There may be other simulators available, I believe there is an "arcade"
style one but I think it is british and only runs on the Amiga.

I saw a REAL: simulator a few months ago, it ran on an old DEC PDP-11
and
used 12 inch video disks!! But full arcade features including genuine
locomotive control stand!!


Steve
The First Indian Railways Homepage : <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>



-----Original Message-----
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: Locomotive Simulator Software


>Thanks Steve,
>
>No sleep for me tonight ! I need a quick lesson on the US signaling.
What
is
>single Green, green red red in a row, green red red in a row with the
middle red
>offset to one side and a single red?
>Game is working, unfortunately the office machine (like any good office
machine)
>lacks a sound card, I cannot wait to try it at the home machine which
has a
>sound card. Is there a game that you know of with the first person
perspective
>like Doom, MS flight simulator or the many car driving games ?
>
>Apurva
>
>Steven Brown wrote:
>
>> Some time ago there was a question about locomotive simulator
software.
>> There is in fact a commercial product available callled "Trainmaster"
>> Details and "demo" version : <A HREF="http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html">http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html</A>
>>
>> Also take a ride on Nepal's railway !
<A HREF="http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm">http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm</A>
>>
>> Enjoy ,Steve
>> <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
>
>
>
>
>
>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: Dynamic brake operation in the trainmaster game

Date: 22 Jan 1999 23:53:10 -0500


A big thanks to Craig and Steve for the info on US signaling, Indians
signals
are much simpler (as the speeds are slower).
I hope the rest of the gang has tried the Trainmaster game as well. I
got a big
kick out of driving the loco, watching the speed limits and generally
doing
nothing as the train rolls to the next section.
I do wonder if the engine (prime mover) sound is really that authentic.
I need confirmation on the dynamic brake operation in the game. When
the
dynamic brakes are to be applied in the game, the throttle is brought to
zero
and the DBrake switch is pressed. Then the throttle is opened once again
and the
loco begins to brake.
The Indian WDM 2 has independent levers for throttle and dynamic brakes.
The
throttle lever is brought BACK (away from the direction of travel) to
accelerate.
The Dynamic brake lever sticks out from the rear of the control stand
while the
throttle is to the left of the driver. The DB lever is actually the
motoring/
braking lever. When the lever is pushed away from the driver, it is the
motoring
position. The motoring/ braking lever also has a neutral position where
the loco
is kept when it is not moving. The motoring lever also serves to control
the
first and second transition in the Gooty locos. The first transition of
course
gives the famous Alco lurch. Pune locos have the transition control
removed from
the motoring/ braking lever and a separate MT (manual transition)
toggle switch
is fitted on the panel surface near the battery ammeter.
To bring the WDM 2 or YDM 4 into dynamic braking position, the throttle
must be
at zero position. There is a mechanical interlock which prevents the
motoring/
braking lever moving into the braking position until the throttle is at
zero
position. Then the motoring/ braking lever is brought FORWARD towards
the
direction of travel of the loco to brake the loco in the dynamic mode.
Is this the system in US locos (particularly Alcos) using this 'Dbrake'
switch
and the same throttle or is it just an idea to simplify the game ? The
response
of the loco during dynamic braking is very authentic, however there are
very
limited opportunities in the game to actually use the dynamic brakes.
Maybe
Annie should design her game around this 'engine' and present us more
opportunities to brake our loco, specially on the dynamic.

Apurva

Steven Brown wrote:

> There is no standard US signalling practice, but I'll try to guess my
way
> thru anyway:
> Green: Maximum autorized (track or train) speed
> Red: Could be absolute stop or stop and proceed (at no more than
20mph)
> depending...
> Anything red on top with green (or White) below is a diverging move
speed
> limit would depend on the type of track switch (points) speed might
be 15
> 30 or even 40.
> Yellows: flashing yellow is less restrictive (40 mph) coming before
sold
> yellow (30) .But only on some Railroads.
>
> There may be other simulators available, I believe there is an
"arcade"
> style one but I think it is british and only runs on the Amiga.
>
> I saw a REAL: simulator a few months ago, it ran on an old DEC PDP-11
and
> used 12 inch video disks!! But full arcade features including
genuine
> locomotive control stand!!
>
> Steve
> The First Indian Railways Homepage : <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email
> Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 12:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Locomotive Simulator Software
>
> >Thanks Steve,
> >
> >No sleep for me tonight ! I need a quick lesson on the US signaling.
What
> is
> >single Green, green red red in a row, green red red in a row with the
> middle red
> >offset to one side and a single red?
> >Game is working, unfortunately the office machine (like any good
office
> machine)
> >lacks a sound card, I cannot wait to try it at the home machine which
has a
> >sound card. Is there a game that you know of with the first person
> perspective
> >like Doom, MS flight simulator or the many car driving games ?
> >
> >Apurva
> >
> >Steven Brown wrote:
> >
> >> Some time ago there was a question about locomotive simulator
software.
> >> There is in fact a commercial product available callled
"Trainmaster"
> >> Details and "demo" version : <A HREF="http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html">http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html</A>
> >>
> >> Also take a ride on Nepal's railway !
> <A HREF="http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm">http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm</A>
> >>
> >> Enjoy ,Steve
> >> <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >

From: Krishnan Anand <>

Subject: One more Game

Date: 23 Jan 1999 01:58:26 -0500


Hi all,
I can recommend a much better game, i guess some of you might
have come across this . It is called 3D Rail Master. I suggest you go to

yahoo.com->Games->Simulation and specifically search on Rail. You'll
find that one such site offers this. i have downloaded it in my system
quite some time back. As Apurva asked, this has 3D effects. It has a
pseudo Alco cabin with frontal controls. It provides real life sounds
and its fantastic. Its all about shunting some goods wagons to 12
different places. You have to honk at crossings, slow down at loop line
branchings, maintain proper speed and more. Most important is that we
have to select the most optimal route. Seemed interesting, but, me have
to do something called work at office, so i did not explore further.All
i can say is that more than playing the game, the effects that they have

provided is just too good. I have the file with me. Its a mighty 19.2 MB

zipped and occupies around 30-32 MB when extracted, howz that for the
effects they provide!!! Happy downloading

Kind regards,
Anand.K


----Original Message Follows----
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:23:10 +0530
From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email Craig Zeni
<clzeni@mindspring.email
Joydeep Dutta <pdwc@dte.email
Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
CC: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
Subject: Dynamic brake operation in the trainmaster game

A big thanks to Craig and Steve for the info on US signaling, Indians
signals
are much simpler (as the speeds are slower).
I hope the rest of the gang has tried the Trainmaster game as well. I
got a big
kick out of driving the loco, watching the speed limits and generally
doing
nothing as the train rolls to the next section.
I do wonder if the engine (prime mover) sound is really that authentic.
I need confirmation on the dynamic brake operation in the game. When
the
dynamic brakes are to be applied in the game, the throttle is brought to

zero
and the DBrake switch is pressed. Then the throttle is opened once again

and the
loco begins to brake.
The Indian WDM 2 has independent levers for throttle and dynamic brakes.

The
throttle lever is brought BACK (away from the direction of travel) to
accelerate.
The Dynamic brake lever sticks out from the rear of the control stand
while the
throttle is to the left of the driver. The DB lever is actually the
motoring/
braking lever. When the lever is pushed away from the driver, it is the
motoring
position. The motoring/ braking lever also has a neutral position where
the loco
is kept when it is not moving. The motoring lever also serves to control

the
first and second transition in the Gooty locos. The first transition of
course
gives the famous Alco lurch. Pune locos have the transition control
removed from
the motoring/ braking lever and a separate MT (manual transition)
toggle switch
is fitted on the panel surface near the battery ammeter.
To bring the WDM 2 or YDM 4 into dynamic braking position, the throttle
must be
at zero position. There is a mechanical interlock which prevents the
motoring/
braking lever moving into the braking position until the throttle is at
zero
position. Then the motoring/ braking lever is brought FORWARD towards
the
direction of travel of the loco to brake the loco in the dynamic mode.
Is this the system in US locos (particularly Alcos) using this 'Dbrake'

switch
and the same throttle or is it just an idea to simplify the game ? The
response
of the loco during dynamic braking is very authentic, however there are
very
limited opportunities in the game to actually use the dynamic brakes.
Maybe
Annie should design her game around this 'engine' and present us more
opportunities to brake our loco, specially on the dynamic.

Apurva

Steven Brown wrote:

> There is no standard US signalling practice, but I'll try to guess my
way
> thru anyway:
> Green: Maximum autorized (track or train) speed
> Red: Could be absolute stop or stop and proceed (at no more than
20mph)
> depending...
> Anything red on top with green (or White) below is a diverging move
speed
> limit would depend on the type of track switch (points) speed might
be 15
> 30 or even 40.
> Yellows: flashing yellow is less restrictive (40 mph) coming before
sold
> yellow (30) .But only on some Railroads.
>
> There may be other simulators available, I believe there is an
"arcade"
> style one but I think it is british and only runs on the Amiga.
>
> I saw a REAL: simulator a few months ago, it ran on an old DEC PDP-11
and
> used 12 inch video disks!! But full arcade features including
genuine
> locomotive control stand!!
>
> Steve
> The First Indian Railways Homepage : <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email
> Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 12:44 AM
> Subject: Re: Locomotive Simulator Software
>
> >Thanks Steve,
> >
> >No sleep for me tonight ! I need a quick lesson on the US signaling.
What
> is
> >single Green, green red red in a row, green red red in a row with the
> middle red
> >offset to one side and a single red?
> >Game is working, unfortunately the office machine (like any good
office
> machine)
> >lacks a sound card, I cannot wait to try it at the home machine which

has a
> >sound card. Is there a game that you know of with the first person
> perspective
> >like Doom, MS flight simulator or the many car driving games ?
> >
> >Apurva
> >
> >Steven Brown wrote:
> >
> >> Some time ago there was a question about locomotive simulator
software.
> >> There is in fact a commercial product available callled
"Trainmaster"
> >> Details and "demo" version : <A HREF="http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html">http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html</A>
> >>
> >> Also take a ride on Nepal's railway !
> <A HREF="http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm">http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm</A>
> >>
> >> Enjoy ,Steve
> >> <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >






______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: WDM 2 serial numbers

Date: 23 Jan 1999 05:04:21 -0500


Gang !

Just back from the Pune Jn. for an afternoon visit to meet friendly
drivers (whose schedule I track).
Pune station now sports a waist height carriage watering gantry
(essential in electrified stations) at the platform 7. Those of you
familiar with the Pune layout would recollect that Platform 7 is an
extension of Platform 1 but with separate crossover to road 2 and
separate starter and shunt signals. I am baffled at this move. Even
as the Platform 1,2,3, 4 and 5 sport watering gantries, there is no
rake that gets watered here. Solapur bound trains get watered at
Daund, while Miraj bound trains get watered at Nira. In the last 10
years I have never seen an waiting train being watered at Pune. So
why the additional gantry at platform 7 ?
I saw the departure of a very late 6529 Dn. Udyan Express to
Bangalore which left at 1600 Hrs instead of 1230 Hrs. The driver was
talking into his walkie talkie as the loco was started. The loco was
a Blue and Black Krishnarajpuram (KJM) WDM 2 no. 17446. I saw three
Kazipet locos 17446, 16552 and 16753 stabled in the Daund end of
platform 2 and 6. There was also a Guntakal 18285 waiting with these
locos. The incoming 6530 Up SBC - CSTM Udyan was hauled in by a
Guntakal WDM 2 18217 but wearing Gooty colours, even the shed code
was hastily painted over. Apparently the GY shed now homes only WDG
2s and all the WDM 2s are transferred to GTL. The 7308 Up came in
from Kolhapur with Guntakal WDM 2 17778.
I have made a beginning to Doug's work of documenting the WDM 2s in
India.
The Mumbai end siding had stabled Pune WDM 2 no. 17145 (manufactured
in May 69, maker's number 1-3589-03-237) and another Pune WDM 2 no.
17158 (July 69 maker's number 1-3389-03-258), the Guntakal (ex
Gooty) 18217 also came onto this stabling line but I could not find
the maker's numbers anywhere. The Pune loco said that these locos
were manufactured by Diesel Locomotive Factory Varanasi in
collaboration with Alco International Incorporated. I am not very
sure of the text which was in Hindi. But next time I will be sure of
the text. The GTL loco however had a plate in near the short hood
battery box. which stated 'Southern Railway, Golden Rock Workshop,
Periodic Overhaul March 1995 and the loco number" In Pune locos,
the plate is located below the diamond shaped 'Pune' markings just
below the driver's window. Now that I know where the number plate is
located, Doug will get many more reports soon.
I spotted two Kalyan WDM2 hauling a BCN rake to GIT yard Ghorpadi
with a delightfully black exhaust.

Apurva

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: IR Mag.

Date: 23 Jan 1999 11:10:13 -0500


Well, I sent a letter along with a Self addressed duly stamped envelope
to
the mentioned address but have received no reply regarding subscription
details on receiving "indian railways". Lets hope I get one soon...


-----Original Message-----
From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email
To: Krishnan Anand <krish_nand@hotmail.email irfca@cs.email
<irfca@cs.email
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 1:00 AM
Subject: RE: IR Mag.


>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Krishnan Anand [mailto:krish_nand@hotmail.email
>> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 1999 6:39 AM
>> To: irfca@cs.email
>> Subject: IR Mag.
>>
>>
>> Hi all,
>> Can anyone tell me if there are rail mags that i can
>> subscribe.
>> If ther are please give me the subscription rates. What about
>> the much
>> talked about IR mag issues?? Need details on that too
>>
>> Thanks in anticipation
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>> Anand.K
>
> Here's the info. about subscribing to the IR mag (from
><A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail/irfca.htm)">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail/irfca.htm)</A>
>
>*********************************
>
>For a hardcopy magazine "INDIAN RAILWAYS" write to:
>
>Mr S.C. Saxena
>Buisness Manager
>"Indian Railways"
>Room No. 311, Rail Bhavan
>New Delhi - 110 001
>
>Foriegn Subscriptions:
>Rs. 300 sea mail
>Rs. 700 air mail
>India Subscriptions:
>Rs. 50
>Rs. 45 for railway employees
>
>**********************************

From: Rajan Mathew <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues (Feb. 1970 - Aug. 1972)

Date: 23 Jan 1999 11:21:16 -0500


I dont think that CLAT - HWH and CLAT - NGP trains have any special
rates or
include catering charges.

One Superfast train that i have found pathetic is the matsya gandha
express
which rarely runs on time.
Lets make a list of trains termed superfast but known to be rarely
punctual.
When i visited Nagpur in dec, My train Vidharbha each way was late by
atleast one and a half hour, although departure was as scheduled.

Rajan

-----Original Message-----
From: Pushkar Apte <pushkar_apte@hotmail.email
To: dheeraj@cse.email <dheeraj@cse.email
vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email <vbalasubramanian@noblestar.email
Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email pushkar_apte@hotmail.email
<pushkar_apte@hotmail.email
Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 10:33 PM
Subject: RE: Tidbits from early IR issues (Feb. 1970 - Aug. 1972)


>Dheeraj,
>
>I agree with you totally about re-introducing restrictions on SF trains
>to make the travel of bona-fide, reserved superfast passengers more
>comfortable. But in India, as with all other laws, it is usually not
>the letter of the law that is lacking, but the enforcement - and I am
>not sure how one changes that without a social revolution.
>
>Also I agree that the SF surcharge should be raised - but IR should be
>held accountable for providing superior service in terms of speed,
>facilities etc... to extract this SF surcharge. For example, they
>should raise the speed threshold of SF trains to 60 kmph avg speed
>minimum, and also introduce a speed threshold for Rajdhani/Shatabdi
>trains (say 75 kmph). That way trains like the Mumbai-Howrah AC Exp
and
>some of the more pathetic Shatabdis will not be able to charge
>unreasonably exorbitant fares. Also, minimum service requirements in
>terms of cleanliness, food, drinking water etc., and enforcement of
>restrictions discussed above must be part of the SF/Raj/Sh deal. And
>money-back guarantees if these standards are not met. This sounds
>almost hilarious in terms of IR, but these are minimum standards of
>customer service that most global corporations are required to provide
>in today's world! Most likely IR is incapable of transforming itself in
>this way - maybe the best we can hope for is an external body like the
>courts forcing this to happen, like they did with the 55 kmph SF min.
>speed.
>
>I am into wishful thinking here, but just maybe, this will set off a
>virtuous cycle: such HARD REQUIREMENTS in terms of, say, speed will
>introduce an economic incentive for IR NOT to slow down fast trains -
>because if they do, and the train falls below the 75 or 60 kmph
>threshold, they directly lose corresponding revenue! The same applies
>for maintaining good services!
>
>-Pushkar
>
>>In those days, the superfast trains did not have any unreserved coach.
>>You couldn't board the train, if you didn't have the reservation.
>>Someone had this bright idea that last minute passengers who couldn't
>>get reservation should be able to go by the superfast trains as well.
>>I never understood why such passengers couldn't travel by express/mail
>>trains. And now that we have the facility of Tatkal reservation,
>>perhaps unreserved coaches should be removed from Superfast trains.
>
>>Also, most superfast trains had distance restrictions. One couldn't
>>get reservation for less than 400 KM on some trains, for example.
>>Season tickets were not valid on superfast even if distance
>>restriction was not there. Now all these restrictions are slowly being
>>relaxed from some superfast trains. IR must ban season ticket holders
>>and bring back appropriate distance restrictions on superfast trains.
>
>>The superfast charge hasn't kept pace with the increase in fares. As a
>>result the difference in fare between superfast and other express
>trains
>>is trivial. That superfast charge needs to be increased substantially.
>>
>>And of course number of stops should be reduced.
>>
>>-dheeraj
>>--------------
>>Dr. Dheeraj Sanghi (0512) 59-7077/7638 (Off)
>>Dept. of Computer Science & Engineering (0512) 59-8627 (Res)
>>Indian Institute of Technology (0512) 59-0725/0413 (Fax)
>>Kanpur - 208 016 (UP), INDIA. dheeraj@iitk.email
>>Home Page: <A HREF="http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj">http://www.cse.iitk.ac.in/users/dheeraj</A>
>>
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>
>

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Backrests in a WDM 2 !!

Date: 23 Jan 1999 12:10:33 -0500




>I have noticed that WAM 4 drivers habitually drive standing up, EMU
>drivers too drive standing. Can anyone else confirm my observation ?

It is true and same is the case with WAM1/2 and WAG 1/2/4. Not so sure
about
WAM3 and WAG3.

>The IR is undergoing a gradual change of cab layout thinking with
>the introduction of ABB, Hitachi and the WDG 4 locos, which must be
>having really comfortable seats. A friend of mine who sat in the
>driver's seat of a ABB WAP 5 (?) at BRC for a few minutes did not
>want to get off that seat (an airliner's seat - I was told). The ABB
>cab has air conditioning ! All these improvements in ergonomics
>will eventually filter down to the rest of the common locos, one hopes.
>

The instrumentation used in these hi-tech locos requires the ambient
temperature to be maintained and environment dust-free.
Finally the IR bosses are begining to realise that it is not the matter
of
comfort or uncomfort which make the drivers fall asleep on a run. I've
seen
firemen of steam locomotives dozing off for a brief nap standing in
between
their turns! Perhaps if the duty hours schedules are strictly
maintained,
we'll have less of sleeping beauties on the trains and the eventual
crashes
could be minimised.

Harsh

From: Harsh Vardhan <>

Subject: Re: Delhi or Doom?

Date: 23 Jan 1999 12:42:59 -0500




>Cool down, Harsh :-) Nobody has anything personal against Delhi. We are
>only commenting on the disproportionate number of services that Delhi
has
>versus other big cities. Frankly, I don't care if Delhi has all these
>Rajdhanis and Shatabdis as long as other big cities such as Mumbai,
>Calcutta, Chennai,..... get good ones as well. If IR had a consistent
>policy to fund projects / introduce quality services uniformly across
the
>ENTIRE network, then railway ministers would not have to take it upon
>themselves to better their constituency. Incidents such as the
introduction
>of Bangalore-Hubli Shatabdi or the elevated status of Gwalior are all
>political stunts that, IMHO, counteract IR's favorable disposition
towards
>Delhi.

I don't really agree with this. Since when did the bureaucracy start
dictating to the politicians. In India it has always been that decisions
to
start a train or inaugurate anything is at the behest of the politics of
that region. The railway board bureaucrats and the railway engineers
come in
the picture only when there is a strike or an accident.The reason why
there
are more Shatabdis and Rajdhanis to Delhi is because the politicians and
their clout are interested in Delhi and perhaps they like to believe
that
the rest of public also feels the same. A classic example of this is the
2nd
Delhi-Amritsar Shatabdi. For your information the entire NR GM office
and
Baroda house vehemently protested that this train is not viable
commercially
or technically but it was the former PM and RM who had the last laugh.


Going by your logic if all these ex-ministers were so benevolent for the
betterment of railways of their constituencies they could have started
trains to other cities than Delhi as you said but the reality is that
Delhi
is all that is there in their minds.


>Harsh, I would like your explanation on why Delhi has fantastic
>services to Mumbai, Calcutta and Chennai, whereas trains between
Mumbai,
>Calcutta and Chennai cities are comparatively pathetic. Since we know
that
>the 'common' Delhite does not have a role in the decision-making
process,
>WHO made these decisions and WHY?
>

I have answered most of your questions here as above. Bombay- Howrah and
Madras-Howrah had excellent trains in form of Coromandal and Geetanjali
but
as usual they were crucified at the alter of the local politics of the
regions that they passed through. the politicians and their henchmen
don't
use these routes themselves.


> The gross neglect of the Mumbai-Chennai line is a classic example. Why
is
>the doubling of this trunk line being taken up AFTER Mr. Ram Naik comes
to
>power? B'coz if he doesn't do anything about it, chances are high that
it
>will REMAIN neglected until someone from say Solapur or Guntakal
becomes
the
>rly. minister.


As far as I know IR has drowned more funds in the gauge conversion
projects
on the SCR than any other Zone. What would you say is more important-
track
doubling or gauge conversion?

>P.S. From a practical point of view, cribbing about IR's policies is a
>waste of time unless we can do something to INFLUENCE their decisions.
>Before that we need to know HOW decisions regarding specific projects /
>services are made. Harsh (and others), can you give us some pointers?
>


For that I think that you have to address the politics of the nation
first.
But I guess that is not our agenda at IRFCA.

Harsh

From: C.L.Zeni <>

Subject: Newest passenger locos in the US

Date: 23 Jan 1999 19:25:33 -0500


Friends,

I have put up a web page with photos of the newest passenger locomotives
in the United States, built in December of 1998. They are the two new
EMD F59PHI units delivered to the North Carolina Department of
Transportation for use on its trains between the two largest cities in
the State of NC - Raleigh and Charlotte.

The URL is

<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/ncdotpower.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/ncdotpower.html</A>

Have a look!
--
Craig Zeni - REPLY TO -->> clzeni at mindspring dot com

<A HREF="http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html">http://www.mindspring.com/~clzeni/index.html</A>

A closed mouth gathers no feet.

From: Ed Bowers <>

Subject: For Trade

Date: 23 Jan 1999 20:18:38 -0500


To All:

I have the following original diesel locomotive items from the U.S. for
trade:

color slides
black & white negatives
builder plates
bells
headlight (EMD NW2)

I am interested in the same, with the addition of steam whistles, diesel
airhorns, and headlights.

Regards,

Ed Bowers

From: Apurva Bahadur <>

Subject: 3 D rail master

Date: 24 Jan 1999 21:18:36 -0500


Check out the game Gang. All 19 Mb of it !

<A HREF="http://www.abracadata.com/3drrmaster.html">http://www.abracadata.com/3drrmaster.html</A>

Apurva

Krishnan Anand wrote:

> Hi all,
> I can recommend a much better game, i guess some of you might
> have come across this . It is called 3D Rail Master. I suggest you go
to
> yahoo.com->Games->Simulation and specifically search on Rail. You'll
> find that one such site offers this. i have downloaded it in my system
> quite some time back. As Apurva asked, this has 3D effects. It has a
> pseudo Alco cabin with frontal controls. It provides real life sounds
> and its fantastic. Its all about shunting some goods wagons to 12
> different places. You have to honk at crossings, slow down at loop
line
> branchings, maintain proper speed and more. Most important is that we
> have to select the most optimal route. Seemed interesting, but, me
have
> to do something called work at office, so i did not explore
further.All
> i can say is that more than playing the game, the effects that they
have
> provided is just too good. I have the file with me. Its a mighty 19.2
MB
> zipped and occupies around 30-32 MB when extracted, howz that for the
> effects they provide!!! Happy downloading
>
> Kind regards,
> Anand.K
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:23:10 +0530
> From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email Craig Zeni
> <clzeni@mindspring.email
> Joydeep Dutta <pdwc@dte.email
> Anne Ogborn <anniepoo@netmagic.email
> CC: IRFCA <irfca@cs.email
> Subject: Dynamic brake operation in the trainmaster game
>
> A big thanks to Craig and Steve for the info on US signaling, Indians
> signals
> are much simpler (as the speeds are slower).
> I hope the rest of the gang has tried the Trainmaster game as well. I
> got a big
> kick out of driving the loco, watching the speed limits and generally
> doing
> nothing as the train rolls to the next section.
> I do wonder if the engine (prime mover) sound is really that
authentic.
> I need confirmation on the dynamic brake operation in the game. When
> the
> dynamic brakes are to be applied in the game, the throttle is brought
to
> zero
> and the DBrake switch is pressed. Then the throttle is opened once
again
> and the
> loco begins to brake.
> The Indian WDM 2 has independent levers for throttle and dynamic
brakes.
> The
> throttle lever is brought BACK (away from the direction of travel) to
> accelerate.
> The Dynamic brake lever sticks out from the rear of the control stand
> while the
> throttle is to the left of the driver. The DB lever is actually the
> motoring/
> braking lever. When the lever is pushed away from the driver, it is
the
> motoring
> position. The motoring/ braking lever also has a neutral position
where
> the loco
> is kept when it is not moving. The motoring lever also serves to
control
> the
> first and second transition in the Gooty locos. The first transition
of
> course
> gives the famous Alco lurch. Pune locos have the transition control
> removed from
> the motoring/ braking lever and a separate MT (manual transition)
> toggle switch
> is fitted on the panel surface near the battery ammeter.
> To bring the WDM 2 or YDM 4 into dynamic braking position, the
throttle
> must be
> at zero position. There is a mechanical interlock which prevents the
> motoring/
> braking lever moving into the braking position until the throttle is
at
> zero
> position. Then the motoring/ braking lever is brought FORWARD towards
> the
> direction of travel of the loco to brake the loco in the dynamic mode.
> Is this the system in US locos (particularly Alcos) using this
'Dbrake'
> switch
> and the same throttle or is it just an idea to simplify the game ?
The
> response
> of the loco during dynamic braking is very authentic, however there
are
> very
> limited opportunities in the game to actually use the dynamic brakes.
> Maybe
> Annie should design her game around this 'engine' and present us more
> opportunities to brake our loco, specially on the dynamic.
>
> Apurva
>
> Steven Brown wrote:
>
> > There is no standard US signalling practice, but I'll try to guess
my
> way
> > thru anyway:
> > Green: Maximum autorized (track or train) speed
> > Red: Could be absolute stop or stop and proceed (at no more than
> 20mph)
> > depending...
> > Anything red on top with green (or White) below is a diverging move
> speed
> > limit would depend on the type of track switch (points) speed might
> be 15
> > 30 or even 40.
> > Yellows: flashing yellow is less restrictive (40 mph) coming before
> sold
> > yellow (30) .But only on some Railroads.
> >
> > There may be other simulators available, I believe there is an
> "arcade"
> > style one but I think it is british and only runs on the Amiga.
> >
> > I saw a REAL: simulator a few months ago, it ran on an old DEC
PDP-11
> and
> > used 12 inch video disks!! But full arcade features including
> genuine
> > locomotive control stand!!
> >
> > Steve
> > The First Indian Railways Homepage :
<A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Apurva Bahadur <iti@vsnl.email
> > To: Steven Brown <able@ricochet.email
> > Cc: irfca@cs.email <irfca@cs.email
> > Date: Friday, January 22, 1999 12:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: Locomotive Simulator Software
> >
> > >Thanks Steve,
> > >
> > >No sleep for me tonight ! I need a quick lesson on the US
signaling.
> What
> > is
> > >single Green, green red red in a row, green red red in a row with
the
> > middle red
> > >offset to one side and a single red?
> > >Game is working, unfortunately the office machine (like any good
> office
> > machine)
> > >lacks a sound card, I cannot wait to try it at the home machine
which
> has a
> > >sound card. Is there a game that you know of with the first person
> > perspective
> > >like Doom, MS flight simulator or the many car driving games ?
> > >
> > >Apurva
> > >
> > >Steven Brown wrote:
> > >
> > >> Some time ago there was a question about locomotive simulator
> software.
> > >> There is in fact a commercial product available callled
> "Trainmaster"
> > >> Details and "demo" version : <A HREF="http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html">http://www.rails.com/tmaster.html</A>
> > >>
> > >> Also take a ride on Nepal's railway !
> > <A HREF="http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm">http://www.catmando.com/sl/running.htm</A>
> > >>
> > >> Enjoy ,Steve
> > >> <A HREF="http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail">http://www.trainweb.com/indiarail</A>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at <A HREF="http://www.hotmail.com">http://www.hotmail.com</A>

From: Marcelo Benoit <>

Subject: Re: 3 D rail master

Date: 25 Jan 1999 01:11:54 -0500


About games, there are a really good one, about railway construction and
management. Also have all the continents and a scenario about India:
the
Railroad Tycoon 2. It´s really good.

Marcelo

ESTACION CENTRAL TERMINAL DE TRENES
<A HREF="http://members.tripod.com/~lfu1/index-8.html">http://members.tripod.com/~lfu1/index-8.html</A>

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Delhi or Doom?

Date: 25 Jan 1999 07:18:49 -0500


> I don't really agree with this. Since when did the bureaucracy start
> dictating to the politicians. In India it has always been
> that decisions to
> start a train or inaugurate anything is at the behest of the
> politics of
> that region. The railway board bureaucrats and the railway
> engineers come in
> the picture only when there is a strike or an accident.

I guess we're on the same page, Harsh. When I was referring to "IR" in
my
discussion, I was implyingthe Railway Minister and not the IR officials.
I
believe the IR office bearers are extremely decent folks and geniunely
care
about the public. Not surprisingly, I have heard of incidents where
they
have been harressed by the politicians.


The
> reason why there
> are more Shatabdis and Rajdhanis to Delhi is because the
> politicians and
> their clout are interested in Delhi and perhaps they like to
> believe that
> the rest of public also feels the same.

I totally agree with you.


> Going by your logic if all these ex-ministers were so
> benevolent for the
> betterment of railways of their constituencies they could have started
> trains to other cities than Delhi as you said but the reality
> is that Delhi
> is all that is there in their minds.

Point well-taken. The RM and other politicians want a Rajdhani/Shatabdi
from their respective cities/villages to Delhi.


> I have answered most of your questions here as above. Bombay-
> Howrah and
> Madras-Howrah had excellent trains in form of Coromandal and
> Geetanjali but
> as usual they were crucified at the alter of the local politics of the
> regions that they passed through. the politicians and their
> henchmen don't
> use these routes themselves.

No wonder trains from Delhi are not affected so much. The politicians
don't
want 'their' trains to take the axe.

>
> As far as I know IR has drowned more funds in the gauge
> conversion projects
> on the SCR than any other Zone. What would you say is more
> important- track
> doubling or gauge conversion?
>
How about the times before large-scale gauge conversion was started?!
If
not for the politicians, IR funds could have been used wisely and a
substantial portion of the Mumbai-Chennai could have been doubled. In
any
case, Mr. Ram Naik should rectify this situation - that's our only hope,
right now.

Gauge conversion is definitely important. But I have heard from
reliable
sources that the mammoth gauge conversion programme undertaken during
Jaffer
Sharrief's regime was more of an excuse for our ex-RM to channel funds
to
his personal account(s) rather than removing transhipment bottlenecks.

Vijay

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: IR Mag.

Date: 25 Jan 1999 08:29:04 -0500


> Well, I sent a letter along with a Self addressed duly
> stamped envelope to
> the mentioned address but have received no reply regarding
> subscription
> details on receiving "indian railways". Lets hope I get one soon...

You need to have a lot of patience when dealing with the folks at Rail
Bhavan :-) I don't know about India but their overseas service hasn't
been
too reliable. I remember having tried hard to track down my missing
issues
- even phoned them a couple of times. On the positive side, the IR mags
are
a good source of information.

Vijay

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: Re: Tidbits from early IR issues (Feb. 1970 - Aug. 1972)

Date: 25 Jan 1999 08:32:24 -0500


> One Superfast train that i have found pathetic is the matsya
> gandha express
> which rarely runs on time.
> Lets make a list of trains termed superfast but known to be
> rarely punctual.
> When i visited Nagpur in dec, My train Vidharbha each way was late by
> atleast one and a half hour, although departure was as scheduled.
>
> Rajan
>

Shouldn't that include all the long-distance superfasts serving Mumbai
CST -
Pushpak, Punjab ML, Ratnagiri, Vidarhba, Gitanjali, superdeluxes,
Matsyagangha?

Vijay

From: Balasubramanian, Vijay <>

Subject: News from Rediff!

Date: 25 Jan 1999 08:44:33 -0500


Take the Rajdhani to Guwahati
A new bi-weekly Rajdhani service has been introduced between New Delhi
and
Guwahati.
Train 2435 will depart from New Delhi on Fridays and Mondays at 1245
hours
and halt at Moradabad, Bareilly, Lucknow, Varanasi, Ballia, Hajipur,
Barauni, Katihar, New Jalapiguri and New Bongaigaon. It will reach
Guwahati
at 2030 hours the following day.
In the reverse direction Train 2436 will depart from Guwahati on
Wednesdays
and Sundays at 0600 hours and reach New Delhi at 1430 hours the next day
halting at the same stations.

Tatkal expands
The Ranakpur Express between Bombay and Bikaner and Jodhpur has now been
included in the Tatkal reservation service. <tretc.htm>
* 4708 Up departs from Bandra Terminus, Bombay at 1520 hours and
reaches Jodhpur at 1040 hours and Bikaner at 1700 hours.
* 4707 Dn departs from Bikaner at 0945 hours and reaches Jodhpur
at
1145 hours and reaches Bandra Terminus, Bombay at 1430 hours.

Speeding to see the Victoria Memorial
Central Railways will introduce a super fast AC Express from January 16
between Bombay and Calcutta. Bookings are already open.
2101 Dn departs from Kurla at 2220 hours and reaches Howrah at 0515
hours
two days later via Kalyan, Igatpuri, Bhusaval, Akola, Badnera, Nagpur,
Durg,
Raipur, Bilaspur, Rourkela, Chakradharpur, Tatanagar and Kharagpur.
[How I wish 22.20 was the real departure time and not a misprint]
In the return direction 2102 Up departs from Howrah at 0600 hours and
reaches Kurla Terminus at 1400 hours two days later via the same
stations.
This will now be the fastest train on the Bombay-Calcutta route,
completing
the journey in 31 hours. Geetanjali Express, which was once the quickest
train, takes 34 hours.
[Why misinform the public and give them hope? This train takes 33 hrs.
from
KURLA to Howrah and 32 hours in the other direction. The Gitanjali
takes
about 33 1/2 hrs. from MUMBAI CST to Howrah]
The train consists of five AC three tier coaches, three AC two tier
coaches,
one AC first class coach, one pantry cars, two generator and luggage
vans,
one Tatkal AC three tier coach and one Tatkal AC two tier coach.

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